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Croatia B‑class Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Croatia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Croatia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CroatiaWikipedia:WikiProject CroatiaTemplate:WikiProject CroatiaCroatia B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

The whole page right now sounds like some anti-fascist rant! Anti-fascists are not more credible than anti-Stalinists or other antis. Have that page reflect BOTH viewpoints. It hurts Misplaced Pages's credibility if a page can be hijacked by one group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.144.72 (talk) 13:09, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Anica kninska kraljica

Their song Anica kninska kraljica from 1993 is also quoted as hateful, as the song describes, in so many words, the burning of Krajina all the way to Knin, which could be a reference to looting and the burning of Serbian houses after several offencive strikes of the Croatian Army in 1995.

YOUR EXPLONATION IS COMPLETLLY WRONG!!

He is singing "ZAPALIT CU DVA TRI SRPSKA STABA"

Tthat means "I WILL BURN TWO OR THREE SERBIAN HEADQUOTHERS" HE IS NOT MENTIONING OF BURNING SERBIAN HOUSES AS YOU CLAIM. sONG Anica kninska kraljica from 1993 AND YOU SAYING IS REFERENCE TO BURNING HOUSES IN 1995, NON-SENSE !!!!!!!!

DURING THE WAR IN FORME YUGOSLAVIA SERBIAN PEOPLE WITH A GRAET SUPPORT FROM YUGOSLAVIAN ARMY AND BELGRADE OCCUPIED SOME PART OF REPUBLIC CROATIA SAYING AND CLAIMING AS A PART OF GREAT SERBIA EMPIRE. THAT PARTICULAR PLACE WAS CALLED "KRAJINA" A LARGE NUMBER OF SERBIAN PARAMILITARY ARMY (CHETNIKS) WHERE INCHARGE KILLING AND ETHNICLLY CLEANSING EVERTHING WHAT HOLDS CROATIAN NAME.

MARKO PERKOVIC WROTE A SONG CALLING ALL CROATIAN SOLDIERS AND PATRIOTS TO STAND UP AND DEFEND OUR COUNTRY FROM SERBIAN PARAMILITARY ARMY AND ORGANIZATIONS.

CROATIAN ARMY RETURN OCCUPID PLACE AFTER MILITARY ACTION OLUJA 95. SERBS LAST ALL FATE AND DREAM OF PROCLAIMING KRAJINA AS A SERBIAN COUNTRY. SOME OF MONSTRUMS FROM KRAJINA ARE MILE MARTIC WHICH IS ACCUSED FOR SHELLING AND BOMBING CAPITAL CITY OF CROATIA ZAGREB. HE IS CURRENTLI IN HAGUE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by English007 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

This was what an anonymous user wrote, but I reverted it along with the rest of their biased remarks. Quotes from the song would be preferable. --Joy 11:04, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Here's some lyrics from anica:

Zbog Anice i bokala Vina, zapalit ću Krajinu do knina...

Translation: Because of Ancia and a bokal (large bottle used for storing wine), I'll burn Krajina all the way to Knin. h3llbent

Ah, thanks. Google found me the full text. The problem was that the name is actually "Anice kninska kraljice" (vocative, not nominative). I'll put it in. --Joy 20:16, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually, the name is "Anica - kninska kraljica", goto http://www.thompson.hr/ (Thompson's official website) and check out the name of the song listed in the discography section of the site. –Fantastique 13:54, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Another thing occurs to me. Who exactly is this Anica? Some random woman, or someone in particular, is there a hidden meaning in that? --Joy 20:35, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Only God knows who Anica is; she's most probably some random woman killed in the war. On another note, I removed the part: "He was seen mocking an old Yugoslav salute". First of all, there are no old Yugoslav salutes (of course, you have the fist to the side of the head, but this is a normal salute that has nothing to do with communism, even if it was used at one point in Yugoslavia among the partisans), second of all, even if there were, Marko Perkovic does not have the wit neccesary to find something like that humourous. This would be also quite risky, as most of his fanbase would most probably not get the joke, as anyting remotely connected with Yugoslavia is taboo in such circles. Cheers. h3llbent

Yeah, I wasn't sure about that, either, but didn't want to remove it without verification. Thanks. --Joy 29 June 2005 10:22 (UTC)

i am croation and i think that the song is the best one tompsonis the best singer and i was born in the war its not harsh — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.28.105.168 (talk • contribs) 10:16, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

War veterans

"The song Reci, brate moj (2002) sympathises with Croatian war veterans and laments their status ("Tell me, my brother, are we cursed/for it all to be so quickly forgotten?"), which is another trademark of right-wing nationalism in Croatia."

Isn't that a little harsh? I'd recommend just cutting the whole thing out... --Thewanderer 23:38, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Another thing, reci brate moj , although usually performed by both, is listed as A Miroslav Skoro song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.208.91.239 (talk) 19:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Evo zore evo dana

Why did the editor of the article call "Evo zore evo dana" a chauvinistic song?

In nearly every song

in nearly every song of thompson ( i know nearly all of them :-)) you can find a political message for croatian patriotism. and for the question ^^ "Evo zore" is definetly nationalistic. It is a story playing in der time when croatia was under fashism, and there are gloryfied army leaders of Ante Pavelic (some kind of the croatian Adolf Hitler). What i missed in the article, was that thompson sometimes talks about mystic things in his songs (dolazak hrvata> a white knight, send from god gave the land to the croatan people). It is an interessting fact compared to the german fashism (chosen rase and so on)

Evo zore is not Thompson's song.Song originates from WWII.Thompson was not even born yet back then.If you do not know the subject,don't write here.If you know this,and are intentionally lying,than you should be banned.

biased

This page is extrememly biased and one-sided.

if you want to say that thompson sang evo zore evo dana, then do so, do not put lyrics he did not write about on his page. There is already information explaining what evo zore evo dana and jasenovac are. If you are so concerned about putting every bad/controversial thing a band did, then go to Marilyn Manson's page and put the lyrics of every controversial thing he has said/sung. Go to Baja Mali Knindza's page and include every single controversey he has done and the songs he sings; I was shocked that no one included them (as there are many) like they did to Thompson, but then, that is not too surprising. why are there no good things written about thompson? like the inspirational songs he sings. like the fact that every year during homeland and thansgiving day, he has a concert in which all the money made goes to soldiers families that fought in the war?

This is a page about a band, one that many see as controversial, but that does not mean putting EVERY single controversy down--go to any other singer/bands wiki page, you wont see lyrics of EVERY single controversial song down. This is weighing down the page with one excessive one-sidedness. There are just as many Serb singers that are even more controversial.

Bojna Cavoglave "includes many controversial parts" besides za dom spremni, what else is controversial? the fact that he is singing about defending his village from people trying to occupy it? Then is every european war song made during WWll controversial because they sang about defending their country.

Also, what does it have to do with the band thompson if other "reported" versions exist of the song with "ustasa" reference. did he make them? show proof.

and I removed the "controversey" from the last song because frankly, I have no idea why its there

This is just what I am editing for now--I will do more later and some more good things about this band. According to Serbs, almost every single one of his songs is controversial. While I don't like everything they do/sing about (especially Jasenovac, which disguists me), you can't take out good qualities and songs from the band. What they did/do for Croatia is amazing, and the reason why they are the most popular band in Croatia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MilaLika (talk • contribs) 00:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Greeting to King Petar Kresimir??

I see here in the text one obvious nonsense. How could Nikola Šubić Zrinski (who lived in 16th century) greet the King Petar Kresimir IV (who lived in 11th century) with the greeting "za dom spremni" ?? 83.131.164.116 17:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Nikola Zrinski used it as abattle slogan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcellogo (talk • contribs) 18:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup

Edited a great deal of English grammar stuff, and added many citations needed tags. I knew nothing about this topic, just trying to clean it up a little. Let's keep making this one presentable. Cheers! Eric kennedy 00:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I tried to give objective view on the article

This article was highly subjective when I first read it.I did not erase one sentence of the original,but simply put his response on the subject.Article was one sided and gave impression that Thompson is a Nazi sympathizer as a fact.None of the accusations were ever proven that he glorified fascism,and he denied any connection with it.I changed one sentence that stated that Thompson wears black uniforms on his concerts.That is not true.He wears regular black T-shirts and black jeans.Look it up on YouTube.Which is understandable since he is a rock singer and he is personally Iron Maiden,AC/DC fan.Or all Iron Maiden fans are fascist? The salute Za dom spremni(for homeland ready) he uses only in the beginning of the song Čavoglave.And the salute is not fascist,but medieval Croatian military salute. All the statements I've put,he has repeated numerously.They are a fact and can be found in every interview,since he repeats them all the time. I think that article looks now,by data in it objective.Although data could be organized a little bit more constructive.Not removing anything but making it easier to read.Better flow of information.

U boj, u boj salute

Someone edited article in a way to show that people during the entire concert were Nazi saluting.So people on that rock concert should keep their hands in their pockets?Come on people,on a rock concert? And someone said that people rose their hands in a Nazi salute.The salute U boj, u boj is today mostly used on sport events,and also people raise their hands.So entire football,handball,etc.fans are Nazi? You need to be a little more objective.

Please provide a relevant source showing that "U boj, u boj salute" exists (that you didn't make it up), and that it included Hitler salute before 1941. All the article is saying is that some people raised their hands in a gesture in which the arm is held out forward straight, with palm down (we call that gesture "Hitler salute"). Is that true or not? Are you saying that people on the video are not raising their hands out forward straight, with palm down? --161.53.73.13 07:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Here is several videos from football matches showing the U boj, u boj salute:

I don't see that anybody here calls that salute "U boj, u boj salute". You haven't provided a relevant source which shows that you haven't just invented the term.

If you want more,look it up on You Tube,there are tones of them.Every sport match viewers use that salute.It is a common thing.Also difference between Hitler salute and U boj, u boj salute is that in Hitler salute arm is steady(this I hope you know),and in U boj,u boj arm is in constant moving.

Good. Then the salute about which we are talking is indeed a Hitler salute since men on the video do not move their arms but keep it steady (like when you show the height of a corn, for instance).

As I have written in the article,U boj, u boj is something more of a battle-cry.Actually is something between battle-cry and a salute,because it was used in medieval times mostly between soldiers who just before battle rose their guns or swords,and after that battle cry-salute would charge the enemy. Today,since no one carries a weapon,and can' raise that,of course,there is no rule in which way should arm be held.As you will be able to see on these videos,some people close their fist,some open it,some point with their index-finger... there is no rule. And for evidence of this salute existing look at Ivan Zajc's opera Nikola Šubić Zrinski.You will see that in that opera arm is raised in Saluto Romano way,or Hitler salute,as you like to call it. I'll explain how it got in Croatian history:

That salute dates back to Roman times,and many states who exited after Rome on area of todays Italy used it.Because it meant that if you used it,you are of a Roman descent.Nikola Šubić Zrinski,was a little bit narcosis,and by his noble background he introduced that salute in Croatia army at his time. Hitler was not only one in history who admired Roman Empire.I think that you should know that,but he is the most infamous one,because of his awful crimes against humanity. Many kingdoms and empires found on the grounds of Europe after the fall of Roman Empire were admiring the Roman Empire,so salute is widely spread,since before Hitler using salute had meaning of noble descent.Roman descent.

Salute originally was:Ave Caesar,morituri te salutant.Translated means:Long live the Cesar,dying salute you.The hand was with fist opened.

So,I ask you now,to remove that remark that some were Hitler saluting,since that is for discussion and is not a fact.Once more I will state,that kind of saluting was in Croatia was long before Hitler and The Nazis.If you can prove that that salute is not Roman and that Roman descent among noble families of Europe was not appreciated,and using all Roman customs was not display of nobility,you can leave that remark.And that you can't prove,since is not the truth.So please remove the remark.

OK, I changed "Hitler salute" to "Roman salute". --89.172.36.21 16:45,

26 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok,at least that.

Today's Edits

I found this article on the clean-up page because much of it is obviously not written by a native English speaker. I made some changes to it today. But, seeing that I know nothing about the subject matter, I did my level best not to alter any of the subject or meaning. I would say though that it reads more more like a poorly organized (albeit balanced) journalism piece than it does an encyclopedic entry. It still needs considerable attention and so I won't be removing it from the clean-up page just yet. The "Perković's response to accusations" is far too long, for instance. In any event, I'll be back for more, I'm sure. Douglasmtaylor 19:27, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I totaly agree with you. Grammar of authors of this article (including me) is horrific. I reverted only 2 of your changes since they changed the point of the sentence. I agree that the article needs a bunch of reorganisation, but I won't have the time needed for a rewrite until Autumn. But, I must say that the article was in even worse shape a month ago, and it is slowly becoming better. It might be even better that way because an agressive rewrite might end up with an edit war since this is highly controversial topic... --(the guy doing all the anonimous editing) 16:20, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't let this become edit war(History of the article)

This is a very controversial subject.The band either has those who hate them,or those who love them.In Croatia there is no neutral party.when I first found this article,it was extremely biased.It could be marked as propaganda against Thompson band.When I started editing this article,I did not remove certain claims,that had no external sources,because I knew they were true.But I did change sentences from he did... to he allegedly did... or he is accused of doing... since in that article all of that stuff were never proven,and band denied it.The weight of proving someones guilt is on the prosecutor,not one being accused.With the help of wiki editors around the world this article now looks like something.Before you couldn't see heads or tails on this article.

But I have one thing to be worried about.From lets say 1000 pictures of Thompson concert on Maksimir,there are only 15 of those with people wearing ustashe insignia.And here some editors try to represent like entire 60 000 people wore ustashe insingnia.That is propaganda and I will not allow it.In the begining of the section controversy,there is a picture of a man going to Thompson concert wearing ustashe insignia.That side must be represented since it is reality,and cannot be ignored.But to put picture of some kid,right where I translated Thompson words is just sneaky.Man stands in defense of his family with a statement,and then some editor places picture of 10 year-old boy who has no idea what it means,an horrors that insignia was responsible for.I'll change the picture again in order to Thompsons audience is fairly represented.I will not allow that wikipedia becomes propaganda site against Thompson,but I will respect any fact,if it can be verified on external source.Anyone who has any abjections please write them here.I want this article to be neutral.I think that neutrality is a goal of encyclopedia article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Obersoldat (talk • contribs) 12:36, July 10, 2007 (UTC)

Thompson says: "Me and members of my band saw nobody with Ustaha iconography among 60 and more thousand people on Maksimir." It is logical to have a photo of a boy wearing Ustahsa iconography right besides that sentence, because Thompson says he didn't see this kind of people. I moved your photo of the boy with Croatian flag a bit up, because that photo is not directly connected to his sentence. I didn't remove you photo this time, so please don't remove the photo I put. That's fair, isn't it? The photo of a boy wearing Ustashe insignia IS directly connected with his sentence, that's why it has to be there. I hope we can reach a mutual agreement on this... --161.53.243.168 15:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree that your picture is connected with Thompson statement.Since the picture is taken outside Maksimir Stadium.You can't prove that this kid had ticket to Thompson concert,or that he was anywhere near stage where Perkovic could have seen him.

A girl with Ustashe cap, audience giving "salute which has nothing to do with Ustasha", guys with Ustashe caps... Were this people on the concert? How about this girl in Osijek giving "an old Croatian salute which has no connection whatsoever with the Ustasha cap she wears" --78.1.108.195 20:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Picture showing that (small) part of Thompson audience wearing Ustashe insignia is put under Controversy chapter.That is enough to show that part of story.Perkovic's response to accusations is a seperate chapter and placing that picture under that article insinuates that Perkovic is lying and entire chapter is represented as Perkovic's lies.

No, it doesn't insinuate that Perković lies. We all know that Perković is a decent Croat and would never lie. What this picture shows is that unfortunately, there were some hidden and distant parts of audience which hid themselves from Perković because they didn't want him to see their Ustasha insignia. So, while Perković is perfectly honest when saying he didn't see no Ustasha insignia, this picture is showing that unfortunately some other people have seen such insignia. --78.1.108.195 20:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

If you wish to keep the picture,move it to controversy chapter.I never disputed subsections of controversy chapter about songs Cavoglave and Anica-kninska kraljica.This I do not consider controversy since time frame when these songs were created,in time of war.Someone may consider them yet a controversy,and I respect that.Please,do not portrait this chapter as a lie with that photo,allow that entire article be neutral.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Obersoldat (talk • contribs) 17:20, July 10, 2007 (UTC)

Give me a break. Please see the photo / article published in the International Herald Tribune A Croatian rock star flirts with the Nazi past . // laughing man 18:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I will say this once again: I'm not saying that the whole chapter is a lie. The whole chapter is perfectly true since we have valid references for that part of the article. I'm just putting that picture there to show that unfortunately Perković didn't see some people. He didn't say there were no such people, just that he didn't see any. This picture shows that there were some such people there, that's all. --78.1.108.195 20:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I told you already,i do non deny that there is a part of such audience.But that same topic is put under controversy chapter.To stretch such biased pictures through entire article,makes the article biased.

A picture cannot be biased. A person can be biased, or a point of view can be biased. But, picture cannot be biased, picture is an exact representation of reality. Saying that picture is biased is saying that reality is biased, which just doesn't make any sense. --78.1.126.235 22:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

: I expressed myself in a wrong way.I meant that true data can be placed in a bad contest and that would appear as he is lying.Not every reader can see the same thing.I only want facts pro and against to be placed in different chapter.that is all.

Make a remark if you wish in controversy chapter and place that same picture,but placing it in Perkovic's response chapter is sneaky.It shows that he lies or at least that he is an idiot.

You said that. So, if you say that photo shows he is an idiot or a liar, why shouldn't we put it there? If the photo shows he is a liar, then the photo should be there, right? If we move the photo away, we are trying to hide that he is a (in your words) liar. --78.1.126.235 22:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

: I expressed myself badly.The sentence should say:It tries to show that he lies or at least that he is an idiot.I only want,pros and cons to be placed in different buckets,and not to be mixed.So that any reader can decide for himself.

Article is Perkovic's response to accusations,not Perkovic's and his audience....Regarding Herald Tribune article,there is no interview with Perkovic,aricle is just personal view of the author.And that is not encyclopedia material.You can say that certain journalist has this or that opinion,but you can't say that his opinion is a fact.Articles on events and interviews are seen as reliable,not opinions and personal conclusions of some journalist.I tell you again,move that picture to controversy chapter and write there what ever you like,and I will not say a word on that matter.

There,I did it for you.Satisfied?I only placed the entire thing in the proper chapter.This is all I asked.

Merger?

I propose that Marko Perković be merged into this article. Everything covered in his article is covered here or could be. He is the only permanent member, songwriter, lead singer and the merger would strengthen the article.--Gloriamarie 21:02, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree,since Thompson band is personalized in Marko Perković.You have my vote.It is logical,since there are same data in both of them.--Obersoldat 01:25, 17 July 2007 (GMT+1)

Agreed, but nearly all information in this article is about Thompson himself - and the article should therefore be renamed to Thompson (singer). (Would that in fact be a merge in the other direction?) GregorB 22:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Deleted

Despite this, his statements confirming his support for the Ustaše actually outnumber his denouncements of this virtual NSDAP equivalent (he is noted to have publicly voiced his support for the NDH, in various degrees, to the media on at least thirty occasions). His credibility in these statements is diminished not only by this fact but also by the legal necessity to denounce any fascist movement in order to avoid further banning (or other legal action).

This part is deleted because this is personal opinion and no relevant sources were given.And that is not encyclopedia material.Please post only statements,events and interviews with relevant sources.No personal opinion is allowed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Obersoldat (talk • contribs) 12:13, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

I cited a newspaper report by a Croatian weekly newspaper called Feral Tribune after his apparent concert in Split. Is there any reason to doubt the info? Can you find a contradicting ref?

One more thing: his credibility is certainly undermined by the necessity to denounce fascism in order to avoid further banning. That is self-evident, is it not? Were he to do anything other than that he would be banned from performing by standing Croatian law, that much is obvious. DIREKTOR 13:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Feral Tribune is a tabloid, not a reliable newspaper. If we are going to trash far right sources as tripe, we should do the same for this left-wing garbage. Feral Tribune is not a reliable source on its own. --Thewanderer 19:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I am aware now of the papers reputation. However, they did quite specifically cite Perković on thirty well detailed occasions where he voiced support for the Ustaše in various degrees. They were very specific and, despite their reputation, the citations are on their back issue for all to see. They merely piled together all the Ustaše statements in one place, and they appear to ammount to thirty.

It should also be stated (perhaps in a rephrased version) that the standing law on fascism certainly has influence on public statements related to that ideology. This much is fact. (I will not revert the current version, let's try to reach a consensus.) DIREKTOR 20:19, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Note: the Ustaše statements are merely all piled up on the Feral newspaper. This is a quotation (often from other, more reliable newspapers) and the reputation of the newspaper is utterly irrelevant. My statement has been referenced if full by Misplaced Pages standards. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but be careful about editing it without reading the source, or aquiring contradicting references. DIREKTOR 17:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Feral Tribune is a tabloid, not a reliable newspaper. If we are going to trash far right sources as tripe, we should do the same for this left-wing garbage. Feral Tribune is not a reliable source on its own. --Thewanderer 19:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Sounds to me someone's just a bit picky because of its contents.. ;0) No seriously, can it really be rated trash and tabloid? What is Kurir then? :) --PaxEquilibrium 16:05, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

And it's not as if Thompson's quite big admiration of the Ustashas is a secret... --PaxEquilibrium 16:12, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, "admiration" is not encyclopedic. I think Feral Tribune can be used as a valid source, but on a story-by-story basis. Feral Tribune picks at the Croatian right wing with varying levels of reliability and often shady sources (if any). Unfortunately, DIREKTOR did not source the article at all originally, meaning other editors didn't even have access to it to see its quality.

Also, the number 20 in the article seems to be DIREKTOR's own. If he wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear which 20 quotes support the NDH. --Thewanderer 18:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I will not repeat myself again, so read carefully: the paper is not reliable. the quotes they happen to list in their issue are reliable. they do not write anything new, they merely quote (from reliable sources like Jutarnji List interviews).

The number "20" is my number, yes. It is derived from 30 pro-right statements written in the source (read it!), at least 20 of wich directly express support for the Ustaše and the NDH in various degrees. DIREKTOR 14:41, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not so simple, my friend. The article already discusses the Jasenovac i Gradiska Stara controversy. I'm not sure that all the quotes relating to this can be interpretted as "supporting the NDH", which you are claiming. Singing a song may prove ignorance, but it doesn't equate to voicing support for the NDH. There are many controversial quotes cited there, but you're current claim is original research as long as it remains so broad.

Finally, the line his statements confirming his support for the Ustaše actually outnumber his denouncements is unacceptable, because it is totally unverifiable (and most likely inaccurate). No other editor can respond to this because if they tried to collect and number all the quotes in his defense, or those that are positive, they'd also be doing original research. --Thewanderer 16:34, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

The article does NOT specifically concern the Jasenovac i Gradiška Stara controversy. Not all 30 can be interpreted, but at least 20 can (read it). Singing a fascist song has everything to do with supporting fascists, and is absolutely equal to it, by legal standards (of course!!, maybe singing My Fatherland is also ignorance?). NONE of these quotes are untrue and can be verified by looking up the sources mentioned by Feral Tribune (this is not original research by Misplaced Pages standards).

I am willing to rephrase that line if you'd like, that's the purpose of discussion. Be careful, however, about removing my referenced contributions. Also, it is incorrect to say that the line you specified cannot be proved innacurate (not to say it is innacurate) by adding as many references as you like here or in the article. You need to read up on original research, according to you, Misplaced Pages would be full of irrefutable, incorrect info. DIREKTOR 18:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe this helps - Simon Wiesenthal Center: The Simon Wiesenthal Center protested to the Croatian government over the open display of WWII-era fascist symbols, banners and uniforms by fans at a recent concert in Zagreb. The headliner act, “Thompson”, proudly promotes Croatian ultranationalism in their music, sometimes celebrating heroes of the Ustashe--the fascist party who sided with Hitler during WWII--and heroes of the 1991 Balkan war, some of whom are suspected war criminals. --PaxEquilibrium 14:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

What else can I say to change this guy's mind... DIREKTOR 10:05, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

This is a personal opinion of the author.No facts.As a source is not reliable at all. Obersoldat October 15th 2007 13:23 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Obersoldat (talk • contribs)

NS(National Socialist) band?

According to their lyrical themes, would these people be considered a NS band? They sure sound like one. DemonicSailormoon 00:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

They do, however, they do deny it so its pretty controversial. DIREKTOR 13:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

What part of their lyrics does remind you of NS band?Please quote.And explain why you think that. Obersoldat October 15th 2007 (UTC)

There are no lyrics in his songs that remind people of a NS band. This issue would be much eeasier to solve if the guy was singing in English.Lost in translation.................--(GriffinSB) (talk) 14:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

As I have said it before, he is born in Croatia, he live in Croatia, he fought for Croatia, he sing for a Croatian audience and promote Croatian values and traditions. And Croatian (and also other people of this area) don't like English- language songs...DEFINITIVNO! Marcellogo (talk) 20:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

NO,absolutely not NS, meaning no blood and honor or racial supremacist like, absolutely God, family and homeland, hyperconservative, traditionalist , vehementely anticomunist.Marcellogo (talk) 20:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Sources people,no propaganda

The following comments have been deleted:

The band promotes Croatian patriotism and ultra-nationalism, and sings about topics such as the love for one's country, family and religion, but also about the hatred of Serbs and Croatian social democrats. Dealing with such topics has made the band controversial. Perković has been known to openly promote Ustaša ideology because he wears black clothes, salutes in the corresponding way and had often openly supported the Ustaše and the NDH in his statements to the media.

Ultra-nationalism?Ultra-nationalism means that you want to destroy everything that is not of your nation.While patriotism means that you love your own nation,but you respect others.Where in his songs does he promote hate to other nations?And no mentioning songs created in time of war against the Serbs,because it was the time of war.And only mention songs written by him.Not what he is accused of performing.

Hatred toward SDP?Where?Name source.He is right wing,that is widely known. Of course he disagrees with their politics and he considers their politics bad for Croatia,but hatred? Reliable source please.

Where does he promote openly Ustashe?Citation please.Because he wears black clothes?Are all rockers Ustashe?By this,rock 'n' roll is equal fascism.He is a rock singer,of course he wears black clothes. Salute he uses is an old salute of Croatian nobles,that existed long before Ustashe.

Despite this, his statements confirming his support for the Ustaše actually outnumber his denouncements of this virtual NSDAP equivalent (he is noted to have publicly voiced his support for the NDH, in various degrees, to the media on at least twenty occasions). His credibility in these statements is diminished not only by this fact but also by the legal necessity to denounce any fascist movement in order to avoid further banning (or other legal action).

Again,I see that this is already discussed.Feral is not reliable,its a tabloid.Only reliable newspapers should be used.And these quotations in Feral,while they may be true,there are no links to check the meaning,because they may be taken out of contest,and they could have totally different meaning ii their original contest.This is not reliable.

DIREKTOR,if you want this,please rephrase it and place it into Controversy chapter.But be careful how you rephrase it,because you shouldn't claim something that you can't back up with relevant sources.Feral is not relevant source.Please restrain yourself in your statements,and don't edit something for which you can't provide relevant sources for.

And one more question.A couple of months ago I translated two Perkovic's statements in Jutarnji list and Vecernji list.I've put relevant sources,links to that articles.And a picture was there also.Someone deleted all this without giving explanation on the discussion page.This is not what wikipedia is about.Any change must be explained.Shame on anyone who uses this kind of sneaky methods. Obersoldat October 15th 2007 13:16 h (UTC)

This is the introduction, the sources are mentioned in the rest of the text, I'm afraid. Please read the whole article before editing.

Jasenovac i Gradiška Stara (for example) is an ultra-nationalist song. (He used to sing it all the time before 2003, hell, I have on my cell-phone a recording of him singing it.)

His hatred of Serbs is evident from the newspaper quotations of his statements I provided.

He publicly riddiculed the SDP-led Croatian government, as well as president Mesić (read the text).

Here are some of his openly supportive statements to the media .

Yeah, someone appears to be in the habbit of removing sources, my source was removed as well.

DIREKTOR 12:03, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Look,you've put sentences out of the context.Some of them I know they are true.But some of them look modified.The thing is that you can't take these sentences like that.I urge you to find articles and interviews from which these quotations were taken.And that will be relevant source.And when you find all that then place it into Controversy chapter.Because,that belongs there thematically.That is the most important thing that I ask.

Now to clear up some things.Talk bad about politicians is not that big deal.Croatia is a democratic country and in democracy that is a normal practice.Hell,if this was a bad thing,then I should be locked up,and entire country also.To be able to disagree and criticize someone is a foundation of democracy.There should only say that he is strong admirer of right wing parties.

Regarding hatred toward Serbs,you can't say that he hates them,but you can say that he does not like them,does not respect them,etc.But hatred means that he wants to destroy them,which he doesn't.But he doesn't not want to have anything with them.And that is also democratic choice,not a good one,but democratic.Anyway,this all does not prove any support for NSDAP.

He hates Serbs...he said that Serbs are Croatians sworn enemies. He said it in newspapers...i think that that is hate. If he's listeners are National Socialists and nationalists I believe that he plays nazi music...if nothing then at least there should be putted that he plays Rock Against Communism because he purely is. He sings ustashe's songs he doesn't denies it and he purely hates Serbs and communists. I beleave that is enough to say that he is a nazi. I wouldn't care too much about that but i have nothing against Croatians that are not nationalists and in fact i want to visit Croatia and i wouldn't like to get beat up over there. I judge every hatred from Serbians towards to Croatians but here there's a word about Croatian musician that is openly nationalist and even a nazi and there is no question about it. I can't quote him but i could if i could reach some Croatian newspapes.

I want entire articles,not just quotations taken out of the context. Obersoldat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.48.52 (talk) 11:01, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

This article is a total disgrace

Seriously, this article is almost unbelievably bad. First, it's very poorly written and in desperate need of editing/clean-up. Second, it flagrantly ignores Misplaced Pages's neutral-point-of-view policy with its use of biased language and tendentious statements. One example: "Dealing with such topics brought to this band many enemies in well-established Serbian lobbies in various media (newspapers, magazines), that used uninformed and easy-believing media to spread propaganda against him."

Someone please do something about this dismal article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.10.149.15 (talk) 18:25, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

"uninformed and easy-believing media"

I removed a sentence with the above quote as an unsourced POV statement. SWik78 21:17, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

"uninformed and easy-believing media" <dude that's true, just look around... the jews and serbs are trying to get his shows cancelled by lying to the media, by only giving them the bad facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.228.161.208 (talk) 21:07, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

YouTube sources

There are links to 2 YouTube videos in this article. As per Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Examples these are not realiable sources due to, among other reasons, possible copyright violations and I will be removing them. SWik78 20:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm trying to make an Italian page about Marko...

I've changed note number 27 heading it to english versions of the same article.

Maybe publishing an ENGLISH page on an ENGLISH wikipedia is better, so people can really understand what Marko are tryng to say...

And now, after having paid my personal tribute to the polemical and biased controversy running wild here, some more neutral advice...

Imitate the biografic Style of croatian wiki page, It will make it much more clear.

In the article i've submitted it is stated that Thompson is a Battle Name, not a stage one, so the real name of the man is Marko Perković Thompson.

The article contain also a very relevant statement about Israel, that not any antisemite will ever say: I think that there are many similarities between the Croatian and Jewish people, one obvious being our religious beliefs regarding the old testament of the Bible, with the works of Moses and Abraham. We also fought for many years in order to have our own independent nations. Give it the attention it deserve.

Marko has a My Spacepage, and Tiho Orlic the same. There is also a blog, thompsonblog 2007 that appear to be directly linked to Marko's entourage.

There is some real croatian out here? Or someone that has, like me, Croatian relatives? It seems me that the article rely too much over an external point of view, not telling enought to the croatian side of it.

What about the public airing of 17/06 concert controversy,? Or the Croatian national football team publicily menacing a strike after that "Lijepa li si" was not aired during a match? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcellogo (talk • contribs) 00:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Whatever info you can find sources for is welcome on Misplaced Pages. Cheers. --Thewanderer (talk) 00:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Translation of article

Could someone translate the quotes into english where he supposedly advocates support for the Ustase in the Feral Tribune article

Analphabetism

This part:

I'll set fire to two or three Serb headquarters, for my trip not to be in vain. This is seen by Serbs a blatant call for violence against Serb civilians.

This is stupid.What do Serb headquaters have to do with civilians??? Tipical aim to mislead a reader.

In wars people sing warsongs.--(GriffinSB) (talk) 14:48, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

"This is seen by Serbs as a blatant call for violence aainst Serb civilians."

I agree it sounds illogical, but the sentence is not automatically incorrect because headquarters are not manned by civilians, as it denotes an interpretation on the part of the Serbs. --DIREKTOR 17:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

yeah,Serb nationalists and logic never got along.

Only thing i see about that frase is that it is completly taken out of context to serve a certain goal.

So when the US marines sang songs about burning German headquaters,they would be accused of being nazi's like Thompson???lol It's a war song in which he describes he will burn Krajina because a girl named Anica was killed and he will burn their headquaters.WTF???

Serbs have at least 20 singers who constantly insault Croats,Bosniaks and Albanians,even mentioning killing of all the non-Serb people. But who cares ,right???As long as Serbs can hide their nationalist agenda behind the real ww2 victims the Jews(who have every right to be sensitive on these issues) no body cares about other victims.--(GriffinSB) (talk) 18:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Things would be so much easier if Thompson sang his songs in English.This way it's easy to get caught in misunderstandings and prejudice.--(GriffinSB) (talk) 18:40, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, what a pity he is Croatian, born in Croatia, taught in Croatia, living in Croatia, singing in Croatia for a croatian audience... and trying to promote croatian pride, croatian musical and folk tradition. Ah, Its also to be noted that croatians, (and generally all former Jugo audience) DON'T LIKE english or another language songs, as the huge numbers of re-adacted songs prove .

ALL nationalists don't go along well with logic. First, there is no anti-Croat conspiracy on Misplaced Pages, and second there is no sinister Serb "agenda" that plans all this. If the Serbs have 20 trashy nationalist singers like Thompson, then they should get the exact same treatment: facts and references denoting their radical stance. --DIREKTOR 18:42, 6 April 2008 (UTC) The real problem is that Croatian nationalism is associated with National-Socialism and the holocaust, Serbian nationalism isn't. This is, of course, no excuse for "hatred songs". --DIREKTOR 18:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Croatian nationalism is associated with National-Socialism because of serbian war-time propaganda see,http://en.wikipedia.org/Role_of_Serb_media_in_the_1991-1999_wars_in_the_former_Yugoslavia which still continues to do the same today years after the war trough the numoeros nationalist websites.It was intended to deprive the right of Croats to become independent and to create hatred among the people of Yugoslavia to tolerate and commit warcrimes.

Serbian famous fascist singers are Baja Mali Knindza, Lepi Mica and on youtube you can find all the war-time forgotten ones. The songs variate from blowing up churches,mosques,killing Turks(Bosniaks),Ustasi(all Croats),pissing and shitting on our flag,people,language,faith,names.Celebrating Vukovar and Srebrenica because of the massacres and genocides.Singing about the methods used when the gencodes were commited...the most famous one is Noz ,Zica ,Srebrenica.Knife ,Wire ,Srebrenica etc. Celebrating Ratko Mladic,Radovan Karadzic,Milan Martic,Slobodan Milosevic,Zeljko Raznatovic(Arkan) etc. Albanians being called rats,pests etc.

BUT NOBODY GIVES A FUCK ABOUT THAT!--(GriffinSB) (talk) 19:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

How many newspapers and media would cover this if this was happening in Croatia???

Serbian hooligans...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf-I8RTNAHk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1lNFQhXEQ

Serbian song celebrating 9/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bunIMTGrVnE

But this kind of stuff never gets to international media.--(GriffinSB) (talk) 20:20, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

This discussion is quickly deviating from any resemblance to an attempt to improve this particular article. I'm reading general political soapboxing and griping about who did what to whom. Concentrate on the topic at hand, please! SWik78 (talk) 21:38, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, you seriously need to cool down. Enough with the eeevil Serbs already, you can't actually believe this is all part of a Serb master plan? (heh, or can you?) --DIREKTOR 21:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Statements

Before someone starts removing that section be aware that the quotes are properly sourced by reliable mainstream newspapers (Jutarnji list, Globus, Večernji list, and Feral Tribune). Removing sourced info is vandalism. --DIREKTOR 01:07, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Also mine are but the "democratic and antifascist" ones keep on erasing it. Marcellogo

The nonsense you just wrote has been removed. Be advised that you will be reported for vandalism should you continue. --DIREKTOR 14:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Why is nonsense what i 've written? it is circumstantiated by references, articles, text of songs, also other articles of wikipedia,,, or may be YOU can decide what is a true source or not??? or you posses some sort of exclusive about thruth, so where is a song of thompson that talk about race or against democracy? Ljubo Jurcic is not the candidate of social democratic party for prime minister of Croatia? Clerical fascism is not an article of wikipedia? Why so there is a lot different sub sections in wiki about fascism, nazism, socialism, if they are all the same shit, we can also put the blame for Stalin's Gulag also to Racan, Milanovic or Gerhard Shroeder? Jumping from 50000 to 100000 person (and you can found a lot of proof of it) is not the result of an outrage reaction?

So in this case, you can context what i write, change it if you find something not correct, not erase it Completelyas it has it was not written.

I don't have erased nothing of the multiple unsourced statements present in that article... I've not insulted no one, saying someone is fascist , communist and like so,and if a made any change i put on a summary, the same instead was done several time on my writings and if you look on history section you can easily see it, so where is vandalism??????

I don't want to make fuss, I try always to make circumstantiated statements and you treat me like so?

Please understand that your edit is so politically charged it cannot stand. It is in violation of Misplaced Pages policy WP:NPOV. I suggest you leave ONLY the bare facts, no political nonsense and propaganda. --DIREKTOR 17:39, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, better, a little better, not so rude anyway... have you written it like so before it 'ld been much more better, agreed? ;)

Still, I don't not get that nonsense, if i say that he is (or better i say that after an examination his ideology it seems to be a Clerical fascist one and not a racial supremacist or a neo- pagan , and circumstantiate it with citations of his own songbook, it seems me not to be a violation of WP:NPOV or propaganda: hey, someone here still try to convince the word he is a angel send from above (or at the contrary that he is Hitler BIG brother). Where is Tilde on my keyboard, Arrrgh! Marcellogo

P.S:Found it. Marcellogo (talk) 20:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

The controversy is whether or not he is an Ustaše supporter. The Ustaše undoubtedly were racial supremacists, and "Hitler BIG brother"s. --DIREKTOR 20:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Big brothers? Do you say that they are in command and Hitler obeyed them? and what is the problem with me saying Croatia is a country of less of five millions inabithants, it is a fact. , not a point of wiew. The Ustasha in 1941-45 definitively implement a racist politics and also an extermination one, agreed , so the fascist in Italy from 1938 to 1943, the first of the two and collaborated with Nazi german extermination one, but also United States democratic party, was a staunch supporter of the Jim Crow laws that lasted decades, we have to blame it to Barack Obama? Yes , it is a provocation, not take it too seriously. Seriously instead, being a supporter is one thing (involves the fact he is a member of same neo-ustascia organizationsor financing it, if you or anithing other have proof , publish it) being a simpathizer another, showing some exterior resemblance another again,i'm a right wing Italian, but it not means i adhere to everything fascist have done, only that i think to have it in my political heritage, and so i'm very interested to definite ideological differences between them and nazist or usthasha and also between fascism, neo fascism and the actual rightwing party which i today adhere. Marcellogo (talk) 22:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Its a controversy, and a well founded one. It does not mean its necessarily true, however. Look, the point I'm making is not to keep posting stuff about how "incredible" the turnout is, just post the turnout numbers (and the source). Be neutral in your wording. Do not simply state facts in a context that supports your opinion, just state them. --DIREKTOR 22:57, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Both of you calm down! I'm not here to take sides (even though I do have an obvious preference). Your turning this talk page into a steaming argument like a forum rather than a beneficial discussion on the article! We all know the wording is bad on this article, even though most of the statements are facts. I have requested that it be copyedited because it is in a desperate need of a cleanup etc. A contacted user will be active on this page shortly as I have requested that he give it a thorough copyedit as there are numerous grammar and spelling mistakes. Furthermore, the quotes are too long to be just put into quotations. You need quote boxes! I have put some in now but it still needs work.

To contribute to this kind of argument, be careful in your wording (both of you again!). While many people may think or immediately conclude that Perkovic is a pro-nazi or pro-ustasa, they would be merely victims of more propaganda. Its all just a bunch of rubbish made up by Jewish organizations. None of his songs clearly state this, but instead just recall how the war was fought and Serbs got defeated. That should be obvious within the translated lyrics. Perkovic himself was in the war (I think this deserves to be mentioned as it makes the article so much easier to understand!) He's not just some random singer proclaiming defence against Serbs, he's an actual victim of the devastation of war. Thats where the songs "Bojna CAvoglave" comes from. Consider THESE facts! Domiy (talk) 23:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Calm down? I'm perfectly calm, and while I have no desire to start a general discussion on Perković, I must say the "Jewish conspiracy" rhetoric is kind of old. I would hardly say he's a victim with the amount of money he's earned. The war was probably the best thing that ever happened to him. If anything, he's a war profiteer capitalizing on people's sentimentality concerning the recent conflicts, while hiding his massive profits in a mask of "patriotism". In fact, you'll probably call me "unpatriotic" or something just for saying this.

Anyway, all I am saying is that we must state facts in an unbiased context. The reader must conclude that the turnout was "incredible", not be presented with that conclusion. --DIREKTOR 23:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

hi Domiy, welcome, ok, let's conclude it at least from what i'm concerned: DIREKTOR; If you put this a question of style, ok, agreed, i'll will try to put it in a very neutral wording, obviously I expect that the same standard will be applied to EVERYONE around here, and also, please, if it will happen that you find something in my writings that seems you not well written,don't run deleting everything like crazy, rearrange it if is possible without erasing information or references, ask me to change it if is possible in a brief time or if it is not explain in a summary why you find it not accettable before modifing it. Let's call it Wikitiquette? and maybe is an old retoric, but SwC is an Jewish organization, (fact) and seems to me that in this case we can also talk about "olocaust profittering", only also in this case we need to find reliable sourcesMarcellogo (talk) 23:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Very well, I apologize if I was perceived as rood, that was not my intention. We can work this through, edit-away and I'm sure we'll be able to compromise. Though I imagine it is not so down under, its getting pretty late in Split so we may have to conclude this tomorrow.

Concerning Perković, I'm not the one to idealize the Jewish people, but I hardly think they're making vast profits from denouncing him. And even if they were, by some chance, does it make him less of a profiteer? Furthermore I did not deny that the SWC is a Jewish organization, I merely meant that I do not see the motive for an "evil conspiracy" to condemn Perković (except maybe World Domination ;). Maybe they're just doing their job? --DIREKTOR 00:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh no no no, I'm not going to call you unpatriotic for what you just said. Of course not. I'm going to call you a lunatic, in the kindest of manners I guess. In simple words, what the hell are you on about? I hope you do realize that what you say on the talk page can really effect how legitimate contributions are interpreted. From what you just said, it seems that your clearly a anti-Perkovic in a very extreme manner. While you may be good at hiding it, I dont trust your strength of it completely. I will say right now that Thompson earned profits because of his music. Just like all the other Croatian singers have earned profit because of their music. You may not know of other bands or artists, but there are other extremely popular ones in Croatia who have earned huge profits singing nothing to do with the war. While Perkovic may have benefited from the fact that his songs proclaim what 90% of Croatia supports, its not something that he deliberately took advantage of. Like any artist, he sings about his pride and views. Its not his fault that the majority of the nation agrees with him. And its not the reason he has earned profits either. Just to let you know, he does have numerous other songs with nothing to do about the war. And in fact, these others are becoming more and more popular. He focuses around mainly God and love for Croatia in other songs which have earned much recognition. His war songs were only created and performed during and shortly after the war. Right now he is still banned from performing them in most places, meaning he has to rely on his other songs to deliver a concert. And thats exactly what he has done, and he's still earned huge profits! And as unbiased as I'm trying to sound here, these are all facts (forget Misplaced Pages references right now. I'm not going to include this in the article but I'm just telling you this as true facts that most Croatians will be able to tell you). His concerts in Cavoglave are freely organised. Again, anyone can tell you that. He spends his own money to set up such a festival just so he can sing to his fans. I doubt he's anything near the benefiting rich man that your making him out to be. Anyone who thinks that the war has benefited any person has quite clearly never even seen a live weapon, or further more the destruction it causes it a country!

And about the Jewish organisations, I dont think there really in for a profit either. Its clear that they simply just have ill feelings towards him and Croatia's views. Everytime he has a concert, they have to go further and further to protest against it. Seriously, get over it. Its clear they have ill feelings. Domiy (talk) 00:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Predictable. I'm a traitor to my country and a lunatic, the Jews have it in for Croatia and are trying to control the world, ok. 90% of Croatia supports Perković? LOL Do you have a poll, or is that just you and your buddies all comfy-wumfy far far away? According to actual polls, the most popular person in Croatia is its president, Stipe Mesić, a very strong opponent of Perković and the like as you probably know, while the second strongest political party in Croatia (7 seats behind the strongest) is even more opposed to him. I've noticed quite often that right-aligned users from the "diaspora", particularly Australia, assume Croatia is a right-wing hotbed, I assure you, that is far, faar from the facts.

Look: you are pro-Perković, I am anti-Perković (I DO NOT "hide" it at all), and we are both entitled to our beliefs and that's fine (or is that too "left-wing" an idea for you?). If we simply use reliable sources and follow Wiki policy, this diversity in ideas will end up benefiting the article and will keep it balanced. --DIREKTOR 00:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, it is an interesting discussion , but please let do it ni a talk page of someone of us, Domiy was correct about this part of the deal. Fact is this I reply. how it comes, Direktor you are so strict about my statements and not of others? it can been easily interpreted as a fact of partiality or personal antiphaty, or maybe that you find my statements particolarly dangerous... maybe is that, Domiy, or maybe that declaring oneself "democratic or antifascist" allows someone to vandalize, undo,and otherwise spoil referenced contribution from others. Marcellogo (talk) 00:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I do not intend to redo the whole article, it's a HUGE piece of work. The article was already thoroughly ruined by guys who just watch the news, get angry about the public outrage against Perković among urban communities and just get the idea to make a few wild edits to express their "patriotic feelings" (in bad English and with little understanding of the Manual of style). All I'm trying to do is reduce the damage. If I'm strict with you, you be strict with me. That's the best way to improve an article: follow the rules strictly.

Oh yes, and Croatia does indeed have many other successful singers and bands, I, of course, do not question the "legitimacy" of their profit. A few make songs about the war, the vast majority do not. But noone made as much money off singing about the war than Perković, noone is even close. The undeniable fact is, he makes money by capitalizing on people's feelings about the war. That is disturbingly close to making money off the suffering of the people. Think about it, Domily. It is legal, but is it admirable that someone degrades the memory and legacy of the war effort by using it to amass a small fortune? --DIREKTOR 00:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Good to see you know how it works in Australia as you said. Let me tell you that I also know how it works in Croatia. I'm no stranger to it. I didnt say Croatia was a right movement hotbed either. I just mentioned that there are a lot of people who are pro-patriotism and what not. Just because you support Croatia very deeply, it doesnt mean your a nazi or ustasa. A lot of people still judge the country on the war, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with defence of a nation (just like Perkovic sometimes mentions). I dont know where this poll of most popular person in Croatia comes from, but I would doubt that the majority of Croatians support Mesic. He's hardly even Croatian from his family origin etc, and he's yet to impress a lot of people by actually showing care for Croatian pride. Of course, some people do support him. Some people also support the devil. Everybody has followers. But are you excluding all the people that represent Croatia at lets say (for a good example, soccer matches?). By the way they act, I wouldnt say that our national football team supports Mesic. And need I even begin on our fans? The crazy 'hooligans' who light up flares in every match and turn out singing songs all night. Furthermore, where are all the people who supported Tudjman? He's well the complete opposite of Mesic. So where are all these people? No doubt the majority of this "poll" came from Zagreb. And its understandable that the capital city is like this. Its similar in every country. Let me tell you, the real people who represent Croatia are the basic patriotic people who love the nation, not the careless president who's in there for a completely different reason. And you call Perkovic a bad profiteer. Wow.

I understand where you are coming from. Even though its legal to have songs like his, there may be an 'ethical' side to it. Is it right to sing such songs? Let me tell you, people are not easily brainwashed. Thompson earns money because he has good songs. He may have reached slight boost in his popularity due to early war songs, but he has maintained his popularity (and even grown in it) with his other songs about Love, Peace, Unity, God etc. Thats what a lot of people respect him for. He was in the war himself, nobody who has truly been through such an ordeal would have the nerve to sing about it solely to earn a profit. He sings about it because he cares. Because he wants to express himself. And most of all, because its his job to make songs! I'm dead sure that the majority of Croatians are NOT hypnotized in his evilness of making a profit by reminding them of the war. People pay to see him because he has great songs. People respect him because of his love for his country. And yes, again, it has a lot to do with the war. But as I said before, he didnt make the songs solely to trick people into profit. Some of his war songs were not even songs before he became a singer. Bojna Cavoglave was a tune he and his friends used to sing during the war. He only turned it into a song when he became a full singer to express himself. And again please note that he is banned from performing such songs at his concerts in most places (even Croatia!). So he has to sing all his other 'innocent' songs to deliver a concert. Yet people still pay time and time again to see and hear him. And again, a point you seem to have missed out, he holds concerts for free entry in many cases. His massive turnout at the independence day concert in Cavoglave is noted every year. 50-60 thousand people show up to see him. And at the festival, he organizes a stage and other facilities to be set up on his own property so people can come and enjoy. Ohhh yes, thats clear evidence that he's capitalizing on peoples feelings of the war merely to make a profit which he keeps to himself. Domiy (talk) 03:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Concerning Mesić, this is not just one poll I am talking about, there were many. Every so often the news publish the results of the various agencies that researched this phenomenon. These polls do not, repeat, do not center on the capital. They are highly professional and reliable, and in each one, Mesić was voted the most popular. Need I also mention the ultimate poll of all? the presidential elections? two of them in fact, both of which he won as an independent candidate and did not rely on the support of any party. Furthermore, I find the idea that football hooligans represent the Croatian people highly offensive, as opposed to, for example, university students. I also do not know where you get the idea that the entire Croatian national football team is extreme right-wing, that is not the case.

I imagine you must have come into contact only with certain circles of Croatian society. Perković generally draws his support from the rather rural parts of Croatia, and from people that hail from such war-stricken and... undeveloped areas. Modern, pro-western central urban areas, far from supporting the Great Patriot Perković, are the source of the many recent protests against him. I've not known him on a personal level for years so I cannot say whether or not he really cares about the Croatian people. I do know that professing eternal love for the "holy soil of Croatia" is absolutely essential for his cash flow, though. Quite frankly, I do not care about whether he really "loves Croatia", all I know is that he is the public focal point of a backward nationalist mentality that has claimed far too many victims and destroyed far too many economies around here. I dare say it is a little too easy to support such a mentality from a distance where its primitivistic repercussions cannot be felt. --DIREKTOR 11:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Stop, the both of you and Myself also, back to work this is a discussion about an article, the personal one discussion however interesting, and well argumented,compliment to everyone of us for reverting back to a more civilised form of expression, can continue on the personal talk page of anyone of us. Now, DIrektor you say you don't want to redo the whole article because it's Huge ,ok , let's do like in the small rural village of Osijek, let's try to work togheter ;), look , I am writing the italian version of tht one , so I will translate some part here, ask your opinion that of Domiy and of all the other person, present in that bosrd, both shitty seliackini , fucking fascist, freckled flag.burning liberals, and how you call they, traitors of their own country and lunatic at least ( thats for me, every opinion count the same, i'm not an urban supremacist, :p) and after that try publish it:

Marko Perković Thompson born in(Ĉavoglave, 27 oct 1966) is a croatian singer and auctor, solo voice and leader of the group Thompson Extremely popular in his own country, it is also know in there as a former fighter in War for the homeland, for organizing and partecipate in several humanitarian initiatives, but on the other hand also as an active militants (althought without any precise political affiliation), that has often lead him and his group into heated controversy about his allegedly sympaty for the former Ustascia movement, controversy that ultimely seems to get also international relevance.

Ok, this a rought translation of intro, i'll have to turn it in a form that follow the different ertry of article: maybe , by far the most prominent member of the group is...

Gentlemen, madames, it seems you a good intro respectful of the infamed WP:NPOV? 81.208.91.239 (talk) 19:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

First of all, let me say that I really meant no offense towards anyone with my above comment. Secondly, I did not mean that the whole article needs to be rewritten, just certain sections. Finally, the above version is of lesser quality and less neutral than the current intro ("Extremely popular"? hardly NPOV). I doubt the solution to this matter is a simple translation from another Wiki. Like I said, it really is a lot of work, which explains why nobody wants to do it. (P.S. When I say "a lot of work", I mean a lot of discussion with various sides of the argument, grammar improvement (not deterioration), and a lot of work to integrate existing info into the new version.) --DIREKTOR 21:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Concerning the article, I repeat that I have contacted a few outside authors t copyedit it. The lead really does need a lot of work and hopefully this will be fixed up ASAP.

And about Mesic, its common for the president to be amongst the most well known people in a country. I dont doubt his ability, it seems like he's doing a lot for Croatia in terms of rising in economy and entering the EU. But overall, he is disliked in most passionate parts of Croatia for his lack of passion himself. He's too 'big city'. It seems that he doesnt think much of other 'lower people' as well. When you compare him to that of Tudjman, he's almost nothing. Again, with the greatest respect to him and his contribution. I would probably vote for him as well because he's already an established president with the eligible qualities. As popular as they may be, not many people would vote for Gotovina or Perkovic as president for obvious quality reasons. Oh and about football hooligans, let me ask you something. What do university students have as opposed to passionate supporters when it comes to showing your colours of a country? Nothing. Yet we have our supporters traveling across the world just to support our national team (in whatever sport). They are true Croatians. Those who took the challenge and risked their life to defend Croatia are true heroes of Croatia. As much as I'm a fan of the Croatian team, I didnt say they are all right wing either. I just said that clearly by the way they act and represent Croatia in such a passionate matter, it is clear that if they are in support of anything, it would be the right wing style rather than the 'protesting' style of others like you say. Just as well obvious as they sing Perkovic's songs after they win a game. I think that counts as something. Basically what I'm saying is that the larger people who are against Perkovic seem to be against him because he is extremely 'pro-Croatia'. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with supporting your country. Its pretty clear that he loves Croatia and his people, but if you cant see that then you are free to keep living based on crazy conspiracies that he is brainwashing people into earning a profit. Also note that Perkovic is not in support of Croatia and 'right wing' etc because of the 'sick' acts they committed. Every country has a bad history of war criminals, it keeps going. But has the fact that those 'sick people' defended Croatia and gave their life for freedon every occured to you or any of these other 'anti's'? As much as he may be neglected by some people, Perkovic and people like Gotovina are the very reason that those people are able to step outside and live in a free country rather than a Serbian controled Yugoslavia. Domiy (talk) 00:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Anyone with any deeper knowledge of the history of the Yugoslav Wars attributes the success of Operation Storm to the massive strategic and logistical support it received from NATO, i.e. the USA. Not to any particular courageous acts of the ground infantry. That's the cold hard facts. As for the start of the war, I do not see how volunteering along with thousands of others gives Perković the right to exploit that fact. He's not exactly a "war hero". During Tuđman's reign as de facto dictator of an oligarchy, Croatia's relatively enviable pre-war economy, already weakened by the separation from its markets in Serbia, was ruined by criminal activity widely thought to be endorsed by the government. Mesić "does less" than Tuđman because Croatia no longer has a presidential system, but a parliamentary system. Mesić is incapable of "doing more", as presidential powers were drastically reduced. Gotovina is a poor incompetent Foreign Legion sergeant that's been singled out as a "fault guy" to make sure the USA is not seen as supporting anything even resembling ethnic cleansing (Storm). I personally feel sorry for the guy, he's a victim of international politics.

As for Perković, love for one's country is completely irrelevant if one wants to take it down a path of nationalistic primitivism and economic isolation. If we get a PM who absolutely hates Croatia but makes it more prosperous than it was 18 years ago (for some reason), I'd vote for him without a second thought. Hitler must have really loved Germany, for example.

There is nothing wrong with supporting your country? Of course not, but that's a play on words. People are not attacking Perković because he's "pro-Croatia" and they are "anti-Croatia", we are ALL pro-Croatia. Some simply have the willpower and the mentality to look beyond the primitive nationalistic sentiments (that are so easy to exploit), to what their country really needs: integration, tolerance, and a mentality centered on the future. None of these values are supported by Perković and the youth that "follow" him. --DIREKTOR 01:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Direktor, now I am REALLY convinced you are writing from another, parallel dimention, Marko Perkovic Thompson is not popular in Croatia!!!! A men that put a cd on sale in december, and reach position two ? That take his support from small villages like Trgbanajelacica or PuniMaksimir? Sooorry, but, in your dimension what is the capital of Croatia? Briuni? So, no particular corageous act of ground infantry, like in Vukovar, maybe? So YOU really have nostalgy of Jugoslavia? Then go dress back like a pionieer and go singing for the birthday of the dear leader Tito (obviously , with a zastava and using the dear roads of the good old time, and not the 1200km of new motorways built in these dark times of primitivism and economic isolation), but don't come making lecture to others. And please above all don't bother us with the story of integration and tolerance, when all of your writings show only supremacism , disgust of your own contry and blindness of any reason that can put in danger your so well endowned sense of moral superiority: You have not given any concrete contribution to this article , you have only found every way to insult memory of persons better than you will ever be, twart fact, erase and censure contribution from others. Look back at what have you written and die of shame, for GOD' sake, men. And you dare you call yourself a democrat , a man that care for Croatia future? So begin to respect your countrymen, that have fought for givin' you the freedom you so largely abuse of. Good you wrote it anyway so everyone around there will appreciate the real amount of your tolerance , respect of others and democratic behaviour.81.208.91.239 (talk) 02:42, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

All right, all right, lets get back to the article, I refuse even to comment on the utter nonsense above. You're putting words into my mouth all over the place, as everyone here I merely presented my, not-so-naive, view of the wider context of this matter. What I meant was that saying Thompson was "extremely popular" is not NPOV. State facts, do not draw conclusions for the reader. The problem here is I'm obviously dealing with fans logically trying to depict him in as best a light as possible. We need professionalism, not emotions. Have a look at The Doors article: they are nowhere described as a "popular" or "extremely popular" band as that is unencyclopedic wording. --DIREKTOR 11:26, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Direktor, i'm sorry that you see my intervention as an utter nonsense. I'm not talking about that thing of the "extremely popular" one, I was referring to the general tone you have used in the all whole discussion, you complained that i put words in your mouth all over the place, the same seems to me you have done with me (the stories of the jewish cospiration, as for an istance) and much, much more with the maybe naive, but always polite mister Domyi. Maybe i'm not so gentle as he his, but you have to pardon me: Althought I came from Italy, I'm perfectly urbanized and I have , not "any deeper knowledge" , but a degree in History (that allow me to professionallytell you that you are saying a lot of B...T about what is written about Oluja operations and the role of Ante Gotovina) , I have relatives that come from a small village that was razed by jugoslav troops and cetniks, I have been in the town of Dubrovnik( that seems to me a place that in fact of culture, past and present can easily overmathch all the urbanized places you talk about) immediately after the siege( and what I have seen in it, is something i'll NEVER forget! ) and have meet persons that was killed for defending the country and the people you so easily talk in so derogatory terms, and maybe because this i have grown a little too sensitive about some topics... Yes, this is Sarcasm,, like in the utter nonsense above, but after having tryed to use some irony before of it, after i have asked you and Domyi to transfer that pointless discussion on a talk page, maybe i can be pardoned ,if I had losed my temper, In every case, DIREKTOR, seriously, I think you have done a good work before we get involved in that i hope we all can agre to consider "an utter nonsense",only please, gave a retrospective look at what you have written in it and i'm sure that you can get from yourself what i tried to say you above . And see you also Domyi, thank you for coming! See you after the holidays.

P.s. I'm going back to the village i've talked you about, like every year after the war, now finally we had almost done with the recostruction works, and can finally host the man himself! WOW!

P.p.s There is not the entry Sarcasm, in english wiki, we need to fix it! After holidays. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.208.91.239 (talk) 18:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

NOONE is trying to deny the atrocities of the Serb rebels! How did this turn into a discussion about war atrocities!? However, while I do not have a degree in History, I did not for my opinions by sitting on a park bench and thinking. I read many books and explored all points of view in this matter, though I mostly kept to the non-Yugoslav (British, American,...) authors for neutrality. You have a degree in history? Assuming I believe you, would you be as noble as to accept that you are not 100% neutral and objective in these matters? ("and what I have seen in it, is something I'll NEVER forget!") Please remember that I am not trying to diminish the atrocities of the war, rather I'm pointing out that their memory is being exploited in modern Croatia for financial profit. Oh an as for the term "utter nonsense", I have no other words for things like this: "go dress back like a pionieer and go singing for the birthday of the dear leader Tito obviously , with a zastava and using the dear roads of the good old time, and not the 1200km of new motorways built in these dark times of primitivism and economic isolation" Obviously you do not know that the Zagreb-Split motorway was scheduled for completion by 1996 during Yugoslavia, and that it would have been completely free for public use. Now its too expensive for many people to use. --DIREKTOR 11:23, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Here's a quote from the Stjepan Mesić article about his popularity: "relaxed and charming, Mesić has many times been voted as the most popular politician in Croatia." Nacional: Stjepan Mesić i dalje najpopularniji političar, Vjesnik: Najpopularniji Mesić i HDZ, Vladi prosječno trojka, Vjesnik: HDZ najpopularnija stranka, Mesić najpozitivniji političar, [http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/20061106/novosti02.asp Slobodna Dalmacija: Dalmacija vjeruje HDZ-u i

Mesiću]

Direktor, you clearly have taken the wrong idea from some sources. First of all, consider their reliability. The larger portion of things you hear on the media (especially the Croatian reports!) are untrue or speculative stories. Notice the biased view sometimes? The fact that anyone would refere to Mesic as "charming" is a clear indication that they are working him up and portraying him as a popular person. Also, the quote says he is the most popular politician in Croatia. Thats what I bought up before, whether some people like it or not he's a good president but not good in the eyes of our country's views. Domiy (talk) 03:48, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Direktor, stop it please, I have tried to explaine you the meaning of the world Irony and Sarcasm, and you still don't have get it already????

And why you keep on accusing persons about thing they have not written, who are accusing you to deny Serbian atrocities? I'm accusing you , or better i am hoping you turn on yourself with a little of criticism, about your own statements. How it comes you take this fancy of always talking of your own country and countrymen in such derogatory manner? I'm that come from abroad i'm very proud of what your people, your nation (all togheter) have done, the same every person i've taken with me in the last ten years, all togheter i repeat, not the countrymen or how you call them "perfectly urbanized people", so please don't discriminate, also because in that absurd discussion YOU are the one that is supposed to be the democratic, tolerant, open-minded one...

Reply to Domiy: These are just the sources mentioned on Wiki, there are many more submitted by the highly professional Puls poll agency. These are frequently on TV. On the other hand what you are offering is your own personal view, probably formed under the influence of nationalism. What I would like to see is a poll listing Thompson as the "most popular person in Croatia", a laughable thought. Or maybe a poll listing some other politician besides Mesić as "the most popular"? Do you realize that now you're claiming "propaganda"? I assure you the Croatian television is not so biased or unprofessional (in the recent decade at least). I've gotten the impression that you're a reasonable guy, I just hope you may perhaps reevaluate your ideas on what is best for Croatia. When I first began giving this some thought, I realized that the question I need to concern myself with is "How may my contry be as prosperous as it can be?" and not "What pleases my sense of national pride the most?".

Reply to IP User: You must think I "hate" my country or countrymen. I assure you, that is most certainly not the case(!) Quite the opposite, I do indeed love my country, but not so much that it clouds my reason or sense of objecitve logic. Call me crazy but for me, screaming at the top of one's voice about one's love of his country does not really prove anything. I am anything but "against Croats from the country". What I am against, however, is irrationality and primitivism. If critiscizing these plagues of our region is "intolerance", then I'm guilty as charged.

Also, thank you for "explaining words" to me. Considering my vocabulary appears to be somewhat wider than yours, I may perhaps return the favor. Though I'd hate to turn out "sarcastic"... --DIREKTOR 00:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, as we are there discussing about our own petty controversy, it seem the whole article has passed thought the much expected revision.May i say that it seems me a (very)good one? It is well written, (and on this, I agree with you ,Direktor, you definitively have, if not a vocabulary, a deeper knowledge of English language than me, sorry about that and believe me, i appreciate also a little sarcasm. Let's hope that maybe in the future you will also try to use some irony, expecially about yourself : take it easy men! It is still a wiki page not the world future at stake... "Plagues of our region", a little magniloquent expression, is'nt it?), finally achieving that (infamous) neutral point of wiew and, above all, it achieved these results by putting on MORE complete informations, not by erasing them (that was the ORIGINAL criticism i expessed to you, Direktor when, ages ago I started that Ill-fated discussion). Sorry (really) about that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcellogo (talk • contribs) 00:17, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Domiy, you have done it!!!! I have had a look to the History section and it turned out that you have made it the most part! Thank you, from my part , I'm very pleased about it. And I'm sure also DIREKTOR is, in its own way: what he hoped for has happened. Maybe also this ill-fated discussion (and my precedent contribution, althought, not well written) , was worth a lot if they spurred you to act so excellently. Hvala ti Puno! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcellogo (talk • contribs) 00:57, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thinking of putting in something from 2008 Australian concert

Reading the article, I think it contains a far amount of Marko's actions and quotes which help get the point across to a reader. Therefore, to contribute to such, I was highly thinking of including something which happened to ME in his 2007/08 New Years concert in Sydney, Australia. This is my proposed contribution:

"At the 2007/08 New Years concert in Sydney, Australia, a young man expressed his respect for the band by running up on stage and praising Perkovic. As he was attemptedly ushered off stage by officials, he was pulled back by Perkovic and given a kiss of respect, taken literally by the fans as a promotion of Love and Care between Croatians during the war. He was thus highly praised by the large crowd for his actions."

Anyone can add/edit to it as they wish, I really just wanted to include it. It is a true story, it happened to me myself in January at the concert. Can I get some feedback/replies to this please? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Domiy (talk • contribs) 07:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

(Yep.) Personal experiences and anecdotes? On an encyclopaedia? You won't mind if I remove it, would you? (its not sourced, anyway) --DIREKTOR 08:24, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Everyone who is trying water down thompson needs to stop=

From a guy that has met the guy numerous times, been to many concerts before half the people here (even the ones defending him)even heard of him, I think I might have a clue. "Za Dom - Spremni!" Does not trace back to Ban Jelacic or any other Croatian viceroy, or symphony etc. In the opera "U Boj u Boj" no where does it say Spremni. "Za Dom Za Dom" can be traced back to Jelacic and "Spremni" can be traced back to King Kresimir, however "Za Dom Spremni" is strictly an Ustasa creation. The reason I am saying this is to open up the eyes of the Croatian people which defend such idiocy as being misinterpreted, instead of arguing that our WW2 history is very misinterpreted (easy way out)- we try to cut corners. This does not help. Every Croatian who reads this, start defending NDH and stop defending tid-bits about Thompson. Thompson is a great performer, great guy - all of the above, but don't try to white wash him so that we can enjoy his concerts, because it is not doing us any good in the history department. I can show anyone here that more than half of thompsons songs have a direct message about Ustase which is completely blind to nonCroats, yugo-Croats, or Croats who don't know much about Croatian history such as the ones defending him here. AP1929 (talk) 06:31, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

You could be his brother, AntePavelić1929, and you would still need corroboration. --DIREKTOR 07:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Edits

Za dom spremni! Indeed the salute does date back to Ban Jelačić, but the fact remains that during WW2 (and later in SFR Yugoslavia) it's primary meaning would be as a fascist salute. This is unfortunate, but this is simply how things are. I am not denying the long heritage of the salute, but anyone who believes people will think of Ban Jelačić when they hear it, and not the NDH, is deceiving himself.

Račan. The actions of Ivica Račan were indeed instrumental to Croatia's independence, i.e. the collapse of the unified League of Communists of Yugoslavia, and, by extension, Yugoslavia itself. The Slovenian Party leadership would have been in a lot of trouble after their walkout without Račan's support. With his actions and as Croatia's "leader" during the first period of the dissolution, Račan certainly deserves the name "prominent leader in Croatia's push for independence". (I didn't add this, though, I just fixed the sentence structure)

Yugoslav wars. The Croatian war of independence is only one of what is known on Misplaced Pages as the "Yugoslav Wars". Propose a rename or something if you do not like the term. --DIREKTOR 07:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Out of context

I again urge the editors to remove this part ,'cause it's untrue.

" Their song Anica - Kninska Kraljica from 1993 includes the lyrics:

Zbog Anice i bokala vina, zapalit ću Krajinu do Knina Zapalit ću dva, tri srpska štaba, da ja nisam dolazio džaba Which roughly means:

Because of Anica and a jug of wine, I'll set fire to Krajina all the way up to Knin I'll set fire to two or three Serb headquarters, for my trip not to be in vain. This is seen by Serbs a blatant call for violence against Serb civilians."

First of all,there is no refference on that being any kind of call for violence against Serb civilians. Second look at the meaning of the text... He said Serb headquaters,so what does that has to do with civilians??? If the text stayes like that,then at the end of the paragraph it should also be mentioned that Serbs have the lowest IQ in Europe.An average of 89. Here is my refference that can confirm that and you can google it yourself.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=381057&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=Talking%20point&ct=5

--(GriffinSB) (talk) 11:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Um, he said he would "burn the Krajina", so yes, it can be interpreted as a call for violence. Note: noone is saying it necessarily is, but merely that it is interpreted in such a way. --DIREKTOR 00:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

He said I'll burn Krajina 'till Knin.He didn't call for violence. Let's say an American soldier singing about him burning nazi Germany to Berlin and burn nazi headquaters.Is that a call for violence against civilians?!?! I said i'll include the IQ refference next to it.--(GriffinSB) (talk) 13:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, forget "American soldiers", we're talking about something completely different. Second, the "burn Serb headquarters" verse obviously does not call for violence against civilians and is not the issue here. The issue is that calling on the burning of the Krajina is most certainly a call for violence, as it calls for the destruction, or incineration, of the entire (mostly) Serb populated area. --DIREKTOR 14:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Krajina was a genocidal separatist region with borders created by ethnic cleansing,murders,deportations,executions and other warcrimes.Non-Serbs were targeted,mostly Croats.Srpska Krajina never existed before and was illegal.It was never an entity,autonomus provice or whatsoever.It was a part of Croatia.So if he says he'll burn it till Knin,it has a different meaning then saying he'll burn some sovereign country.Second ,he said I'll burn Krajina,he didn't call anyone to aid thim with violenece. It would be the same is I would say I burn Republika Srpska in Bosnia.A entity that was made on genocide,murders,concentration camps etc.It's an opinion of one individual,not a call for violence.--(GriffinSB) (talk) 17:06, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your wonderful lesson in Croatian history, but I do not need your opinions to help me make sense of all the professional works I've read on the subject. Your first comment is racist, pure and simple. Hatred towards Serbs hidden behind a very transparent mask. I do indeed know the details of the murderous "Krajina" regime, perhaps even better than you. According to your strange logic, the civilians to be killed in the burning of the "Krajina" are not equal to the civilians from the rest of Croatia, and burning the "Krajina" may be justified because its not a sovereign state? Are you joking? I hope you are...

As for your second "point", it is even more nonsensical than the first. You are discussing the case of his sentence. You are claiming that if the text does not explicitly state "I call on all of you here go and burn the Krajina, at some point in the near future" that it cannot be interpreted as a call for violence. Very few songs, many of the Chetnik ones, would not meet your standards as a "call to violence". (Example: If someone sings about a certain kilometer-long pit that "awaits" Croats, he does not really call for them to be actually murdered does he?) --DIREKTOR 19:02, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I have to eliminate some vandalism...

Saying that Bojna cavoglave call for etnic cleansing of serbs is not a vandalism , is an Utter LIE!

So let's publish the exact text ,the Icty indictments against krajna para-state leader Milan Martic and the true significance of the word Chetnicks as a retaliation .

But.. there is another inexact statements, M.P. Th. don't call the Croatian army, he calls the Serbian volunteers themselves and tell to THEM that the God's Justice will reach them also in Serbia (OOh, this is A direct citation of Serbian ANTHEM :D!!!!) ] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcellogo (talk • contribs) 19:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Have to agree with this, and I vouch for it. THere is no such mention of ethnic cleansing in Bojna Cavoglave. It is merely a song expressing his love and protection of his homeland, and what he is saying is that he will take action if and when the Serbs did try to take over. That in no way provokes a call for ethnic cleansing at all! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Domiy (talk • contribs) 23:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

It seems that declarying oneself "democratic and anfifascist" allows someone to vandalize, undo,and otherwise spoil referenced contribution from others, like miss Rjecina keep on doing...like on my last 6/08/08 contribution. Ok so i'll put more reference, and modify from antifascist to neo-comunist as their feats has clearly showed who they really are... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcellogo (talk • contribs) 11:36, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

NDH

The article mentions "NDH" twice, without bothering to explain what it means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.77.6.1 (talk) 08:26, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

ROCK BAND??? ROCK?? WTF?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.139.40.180 (talk) 13:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Thompson is rock band. On new album "Bilo jednom u Hrvatskoj" there is few heavy metal songs (Kletva Kralja Zvonimira, Neka niko ne dira u moj mali dio svemira") Other songs are rock, Christian rock, hard rock or heavy metal and some folk rock —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flota bez Pilota (talk • contribs) 12:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

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