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Revision as of 13:03, 22 September 2008

• Talk archive 2007 - May 2008
• Barnstars and stuff
• Requests for images? Please write to my Commons account / Пожалуйста, запросы и замечания по фотографиям - на Commons, там я бываю чаще.

Photos of diplomatic missions in Moscow

Hi NVO, I have recently reformatted List of diplomatic missions in Russia into table format, and have included a column for photos of the actual diplomatic mission in Moscow (and other Russian cities). As you can see from that article, many of your photos have been used, and I was wondering if it may be possible for you to take photos of the other diplomatic missions in Moscow on your travels. With your photos of the missions thus far they really do add to the article, and it would be great to have this article progress from a simple list, to a fully fledged article on the history of diplomatic missions in Russia, with the view of getting it to featured article quality. Is this something you may be able to collaborate on in the future? If needed, I can provide you with a complete list of the addresses in Moscow for reference. Of course, for myself, one of the most wanted photos is of the embassy at 109028, Москва, Подколокольный переулок, д. 10А/2, that of course being the Australian Embassy. If this is something you may be able to help with, I would like to hear from you. Пока. --Россавиа 08:24, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

• Here's a corner of Australian Embassy visible Image:Moscow, Podkolokolny Lane 10, 11.jpg. NVO (talk) 08:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
• I repopulated the commons cat. But editing the supertable is beyond my humble means :)). NVO (talk) 21:21, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Wow, you have been busy. The additional photos look great, and I see you have added many of them already, and I've added the Vietnamese, Latvian, South African and Malian embassy photos which you have taken. As one of your interests is architecture, and one of my interests is international relations (and particularly international relations of the Rodina), perhaps you would like to collaborate with myself in creating individual articles for the various embassies and missions in Moscow? I can provide information on the history of the diplomatic mission (the staff, history of diplomatic relations, etc), you could provide information on the history of the actual building in which the mission is situated. This will also aid development of other articles such as Bolshaya Nikitskaya Street, Povarskaya Street, Ivan Sergeyevich Kuznetsov, etc, etc. Would you be interested in that? --Россавиа 23:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
    • I also left you a message on commons, but will put it here also, in regards to Image:Moscow, Bolshaya Ordynka 46.jpg, I thought you may like to know that this is the Representation of the Chuvash Republic in Moscow. As you probably know, the most of the regions of Russia have a representative office in Moscow. How could these representative offices be categorised do you think? And perhaps it could make for another interesting article, such as the Diplomatic missions in Russia article I am working on. what do you think? --Россавиа 18:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Also, would you have photos of Bolshaya Ordynka 70 (Kenyan embassy), Bolshaya Ordynka 64 (Kyrgyzstan embassy) and Bolshaya Ordynka 56 (Israel embassy)? --Россавиа 18:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

As of Bolshaya Ordynka - the street is beign dug throughout, limited to just one or two traffic lanes. Doesn't help nice pictures.

• No. 46 - still flying Chuvash flag. The southern firewall is all ripped open - because corner No. 48 - was demolished this year.
• No. 56 - Israel - completely surrounded with big dig. Anyway, there's little to photograph - looks more like a prison, a dull building behind an impressive fortification.
• No. 64 - uploaded.
• No. 70 - being repaired. No signs of embassy (or any life forms).
• No. 72 - not on your list - embassy of Argentina.NVO (talk) 07:47, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi NVO, thanks for the extra uploads. A couple of questions you might be able to answer...

• In regards to the Chuvash 'mission', I have been able to find details of Полномочное представительство from a few republics, namely, Bashkortostan @ ул. Доброслободская, 6, строение 2, Chuvashia @ ул.Большая Ордынка, д.46, строение 1 and Buryatia @ ул. Мясницкая 43, стр. 2. Is it only the Republics which have Полномочное представительство missions in Moscow? Or do all Federal Subjects, e.g. Еврейская автономная область, Чукотский автономный округ, Забайкальский край, Новосибирская область, etc, etc have these offices?

Доброслободская, 6 is still being 'repaired' (it was actually torn down three years ago, core built in summer 2007 and still shrouded in scaffolding). Who can have a rep mission? Anyone, so in addition to mission of Novosibirsk region there's a mission of City of Novosibirsk. NVO (talk) 00:35, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• No 70 seems to no longer be the Embassy of Kenya, that now seems to be at Лопухинский пер., 5. Perhaps ГлавУпДК is renovating that building
• I noticed you have added info to Embassy of Argentina in Moscow relating to the building, good stuff...I thought you might like to take a look at a good website, perhaps you already know it? www.diplomatrus.com, it is the website of a journal published by the GlavUpDK, which owns many of the embassy buildings in Moscow, particularly those which are heritage buildings. They have a lot of interesting articles on many of these buildings, such as:
  • Belgian ambassadors residence in Khlebny Lane
  • Sretenka Street
  • Bolshaya Polanka Street
  • General overview of past and present buildings of GlavUpDK
  • New Arbat Street - would these photos be able to used under the old Soviet copyright licencing?
  • Franz-Albert Schechtel/Fyodor Osipovich Shekhtel
  • Vozdvizhenka Street
• and many others (view the Russian version of article simply by clicking on the РУССКИЙ link at the top right of each page. Can you recommend any other good sources (in either English or Russian) on the diplomatic mission buildings? Cheers, --Россавиа 11:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Austrian and New Zealand embassies had quite good articles on their buildings. NVO (talk) 00:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The New Zealand embassy maintains a really good site with 4 pages of great information relating to Mindovsky House, which is located at http://www.mindovsky.ru/embassy_building/index_eng.html or http://www.mindovsky.ru/embassy_building/index_ru.html (for Russian), and it has many photos which we could use on Commons, what do you think?

The photographs on Novy Arbat are definitely 1950s or 60s, so the answer is no (on commons). At least one wooden building shown - Lermontov museum - is still alive. NVO (talk) 00:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any opportunity to go to Мосфильмовская улица? As there are many embassies located there, including Bosnia and Herzegovina (50), Bulgaria (66), Germany (56), Hungary (62), Kuwait (44), Libya (38), Malaysia (50), Nicaragua (50), North Korea (72), Panama (50), Romania (64), Serbia (46) and Sweden (60), and as yet, I can't find photos of any of these embassies on commons. In the cases of Bosnia, Malaysia, Nicaragua and Panama, if they only occupy an office in a building, if it is possible to get a photo of the 'embassy office' as well as the building from the outside that would be great. Any chance of this request mate? Cheers, --Россавиа 18:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd hold uploading pictures of 20th century buildings until Deletion requests/French architects is resolved (if it is resolved favorably). Anyway, Mosfilmovskaya street offices are quite dull Brezhnev-style blocks, nothing to write home about. NVO (talk) 16:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

What a silly proposition it is at that discussion, and I had to laugh at your comment. When the discussion is finished, and if it finishes favourably, any photos you can do in that area at any stage would be hugely appreciated. Even if they are of Brezhnev-era buildings (I shudder at the thought, really, лол). I see from a map of Ramenki within that small area there are 13 missions, with the Uruguay and Chinese missions just SW of the main mission area. I have re-formatted the list again, to separate Moscow, Saint Petersburg and the rest of Russia, as I have am finding a lot of info on the general diplomatic community in Moscow and Saint Petersburg, which I believe will fit in quite well with the lists; do you think personally that adding the District field is a valuable addition to the Moscow list? --Россавиа 15:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

On a somewhat side issue, what do you think should be the balance of information between, Embassy of Armenia in Moscow and Lazarev Institute of Oriental Languages ? NVO (talk) 11:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I have redirected the embassy article to the institute article for the time being, and will add more information to the institute article in regards to the embassy. --Россавиа 15:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

In regards to Japan, you have this photo, and you have taken this photo only recently. On the embassy website, and on the MID website, the address is given as Грохольский переулок, 27. I have used this address at Embassy of Japan in Moscow, but am wondering if the building at Kalashny Lane may be the ambassador's residence, or some other building connected with the embassy. What do you think about this? --Россавиа 16:51, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

• They indeeed relocated the main office to Groholsky, 27 in March 2007. Kalashny Lane is their consulate. NVO (talk) 16:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Your note

I copyedited and replied on my talk. Regards, dvdrw 01:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Koltsevaya Line

Hi there, I've been making numerous additions wrt stations on that line, right now I've completed up to this shedevr, since you know a lot on the subject can you review the articles please? --Kuban Cossack (По-балакаем?) 10:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

• Вот вероятный источник щусевского ордера этой станции

• А вот вероятный повод к удалению всех фото из статьи Deletion_requests/French_architects
• А вообще статья "неэнциклопеличная" - weasel words, вкусовщина, и вообще на кольце лучшая Краснопресненская. Там не такая давка :)). NVO (talk) 13:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Согласен, сам рядом с ней жил. Но все равно Комсомольская самая парадная. --Kuban Cossack (По-балакаем?) 14:21, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Thank you very much for writing Miron Merzhanov.

I have made some minor changes to attempt to fix some things. In particular, would you please take a look at the English translations of the Russian titles of the two sources for the article? I do not know Russian, so these are educated guesses, and I would like to know if they are reasonably correct.

Thanks, « D. Trebbien (talk) 00:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's correct, thanks for straightening it up. NVO (talk) 07:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I partially reverted your changes on the 1944 paragraph. The point there was that 'testimonies' against MM (and thousands others) were collected well in advance and were carefully stored 'until due time' (in 1938 MM was at the peak of his career, sort of an untouchable) - your edit somehow blanked this aspect. The dead witnesses each signed probably hundreds of these accusations (and who am I to blame them). Anyway, the fact of reppressions against an architect of his caliber is quite unique (I can only recall Vyacheslav Oltarzhevsky and on a lesser scale Gevorg Kochar). NVO (talk) 08:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.

I removed some info on the 1944 paragraph because it seemed like point of view, as it was written. However, it seems that your sources can factually verify the claim that their testimonies were "prepared in advance".

I am curious, though. Why would an architect be sentenced to labor camps for Anti-Soviet activities, when he designed for Stalin? Was it because he was not part of the military, fighting against the German invasion?

« D. Trebbien (talk) 13:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Nobody knows (neither did Voroshilov, nor Mikoyan). According to Akulov, Merzhanov believed that he became a pawn in Beria's play, no evidence, one man's opinion. Harem politics. There was some logic in pre-war terror, in 1940s it was plain irrational. Your point on the war misses the nature of totalitarian state: in an all-out, it's literally all out - he was part of the military engineers, although without uniform. NVO (talk) 21:16, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

In case you didn't notice

There is a request for a footnote for you here. Regards, dvdrw 20:49, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Consulate-General of France in Saint Petersburg

Hi NVO, I have started Consulate-General of France in Saint Petersburg and have nominated it for DYK. I was wondering if you might be able to check it, and perhaps you might be able to find something more on this building? I am also gonna start doing more on the embassies in Moscow - France and Brazil will be first - perhaps do them at the rate of one a week or something, so that they too can be put up for DYKs. Anything you may be able to add on the SPB consulate would be appreciated. Cheers --Russavia 16:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

• Honestly, SPB is terra incognita for me. Try recruiting ru:User:Mar aka en:User:MaryannaNesina. I've added some bits on Moscow embassies of Austria, Tanzania, Vietnam. NVO (talk) 21:05, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Melnikov house

What do you think about this article, ru:Дом Мельникова? I'm thinking of adapting an English version once I have time after this week. Regards, dvdrw 23:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

• Nice take. But all the images on Commons must be deleted. NVO (talk) 23:10, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Really? that's too bad. That was one of the attractions of the article- plus having Russian to translate. I'm thinking about starting my first article in Russian in a week or so. If you can take a look at it and copy edit let me know, it won't be very long because I can read better in Russian than I can write at this point. dvdrw 23:18, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

GLAVSEVMORPUT

The use of the word "random" regarding Josef Stalin's terror tactics is not mine. It refers to his calculated intention of keeping everyone, no matter how high the position of power, on the "qui vive" so that they could not predict when terror would strike; and when terror struck they didn't know from which angle it had come from. At any rate I agree with your rewording of the Chief Directorate of the Northern Sea Route stub, it is very good. Mohonu (talk) 05:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

• IMO, "random" tactics coexisted with absolutely not random terror campaigns. Destruction of Trotskyists was definitely not random; labeling trotskyism charges on thousands of unconnected victims was random. Each major campaign had a clear target although in some case it was not set by Stalin (Abakumov, Yezhov, Khruschev, you name it). In case of Glavsevmorput, the random blood thirst of NKVD (the system as a whole) coincided with a not-so-random will to make it workable and limit explosive bureaucratic growth. I studied the subject from a somewhat different perspective - organization histories, employment records, housing shortage in Moscow - 1930s bureaucracy had an amazing capacity for unchecked expansion. The system had no means to manage this other than kill, literally - until WWII halved the manpower resources. NVO (talk) 11:07, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

Your move of HDMS Gunnar Thorson (A560) works for me. I see you fleshed it out from stub status. That was quick.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 19:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Your question

I have repleid to your question here . Giano (talk) 11:45, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Nikolaev_commune_2008_stairs_01.jpg

Are you sure this image can't go on commons? It's an interesting picture and it would be great to have a high-res version (and of course putting it on commons would also be nice). Commons already has many, many images of buildings from the Soviet era - a few examples are here: Commons:Category:Hotels_in_Russia. I was going to say that pre-WWII works from the USSR are generally public domain... but it seems there have been some recent changes to Russian copyright law that removed many images from the public domain and created some turmoil here. So I'll ask around to try to find out how this affects images of Soviet-era buildings. --Amble (talk) 18:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

• Commons has many thousands images where license is either completely bogus or that were uploaded in good standing prior to 1/1/2008 but that were made unacceptable with the change in Russian law. Consider, for example, commons:Category:Moscow_Metro. All photography in the category must go - it does not pass the 70 year past mortem test. Check Commons threads here (Russia) and here (France). They are still unresolved - nobody wants to take control an delete hundreds of pics that will snowball into many thousands. So I'm not uploading anything "modern" (1918 and later) on Commons. Which is a shame as I have thousands of pics of buildings that either already demolished or are closed for demolition. NVO (talk) 19:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

That's really terrible. However, surely there's some hope. These designs were works for hire, so wouldn't any copyright likely have belonged to the Soviet government? That would at least let us avoid worrying about the architect's date of death. --Amble (talk) 19:17, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

What hope? Either change backbone policy or delete. "Work for hire" is not applicable. If the author received explicit credit in reliable sources, it's 70 years p.m.a. There are grey areas, i.e. corporate authorship when the only listed name is that of formal head of design firm - not the actual authors - but this practice only emerged in 1960s. NVO (talk) 19:30, 1 September 2008 (UTC) I just re-started banging commons admin for the decision - any decision is better than nothing. NVO (talk) 19:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow, what an unfortunate feature of current Russian copyright law. I asked Commons:User:Lupo and got a similar answer. It seems doubtful that any of the architects' heirs will actually benefit from this, while Misplaced Pages loses out. --Amble (talk) 03:19, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Featured Article Candidacy

Have you considered putting up some of the articles you created or significantly expanded for Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates? Some of them seem very impressive and I'm sure would pass it with a little cleaning up.--Miyokan (talk) 15:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• Not really. My watchlist shows that very few of these texts have been followed up by other editors (not surprising as their subject is usually quite far from anglosaxon realm). Those that were followed up (i.e. Moscow Orphanage) don't qualify for FA considering quality/availability of their sources. Those that weren't... come on, a one-man text does not deserve being there (not to mention prose quality). NVO (talk) 15:15, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Naval Cathedral in Kronstadt

On 16 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Naval Cathedral in Kronstadt, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Neo-Byzantine architecture in the Russian Empire

On 18 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Neo-Byzantine architecture in the Russian Empire, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:59, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Neo-Byzantine architecture in the Russian Empire for GA

Hello, your article Neo-Byzantine architecture in the Russian Empire can be easily be Good Article, only needs additional in line citations to those paragraphs which have none (especially for the Background section). I would like to nominate it for the WP:GAC after you implement additional citations. M.K. (talk) 10:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

• Not sure about GA: the article is actually an abstract from a single source (Savelyev, 2005). NVO (talk) 10:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, yes indeed - this makes things complicated more. M.K. (talk) 10:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Kalisz

The Orthodox Church was abandoned in 1914 by the retreating Russian Army. Afterwards it fell into neglect. If you know where it was located(street) perhaps I can see on map if it was burned. In any case it was deconstructed in 1920 as it was no longer in use. I know there was also another one there.--Molobo (talk) 18:47, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

• All I know is that engraving left on your page - central square, across St. Joseph. NVO (talk) 18:52, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Bravo on Raushenbakh

What a great article you wrote on Raushenbakh. Many thanks. DonPMitchell (talk) 06:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

St. Michael the Archangel Church, Kaunas

On 21 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article St. Michael the Archangel Church, Kaunas, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 13:32, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Mediation request for NZ inclusion on GDS' article

In order to solve the revert war on GDS article over the inclusion of the banning from New Zealand, I have opened a request for formal mediation at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Giovanni Di Stefano. Please participate on the discussion. --Enric Naval (talk) 01:32, 22 September 2008 (UTC)