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Kww

Voice your opinion (talk page) (25/28/3); Scheduled to end 05:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Kww (talk · contribs) - From the top “I thought he was already an admin” file, I give you Kww (talk · contribs). A prolific editor with plenty of clue to spare, he’ll make a fine administrator. You’ll find some article work on some album articles, lots of vandalism reversion, and peacekeeping over on What the Bleep Do We Know!?. Kww is well-rounded and well-intentioned; his contributions speak for themselves. HiDrNick! 04:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:

I accept the nomination. —Kww(talk) 05:12, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I've been around long enough that most people that vote on these things have encountered me, and have probably formed an opinion of me. I hope that's a good thing. I mainly focus on vandalism and other forms of article corruption, generally in the Disney Channel area. It's a difficult area to work in, because the relative age of the editors there is so young and the vandalism rates are so high. I also take a strong interest in the various pseudoscience/fringe science areas, although I generally only step in when I see the science getting driven out of our encyclopedia.

Many people will look at my block-log. The recent one is easy: an admin noticed a series of reversions, and did not notice that the thing I was reverting was an explicit exemption to the 3RR rule: the other editor was making obvious violations of non-free content policies. You'll notice he reversed the block and apologized quite quickly.

The older block is a tad harder to explain. I discussed it with User:AuburnPilot, and here is the link to his talk page discussion. In short, I was blocked for 3RR and edit-warring when I had not violated 3RR (I was blocked based on a false report, and, when I complained about that, it was replaced with another false report), and was not, in neither my estimation nor AuburnPilot's, edit warring at all.

As for the views that leave my opposition so aghast, here they are again, laid out in full. We have guidelines and policies. People are free to try to get policies and guidelines changed, debate them, and figure out what the best direction for Misplaced Pages is. That's fine. None of us are free to unilaterally ignore them. An editor that constantly edits in images that violate WP:IUP is disruptive, even if he thinks our free-content rules are wrong. An editor that constantly edits in statements that violate WP:BLP is disruptive, even if he believes they are sheltering someone from deserved criticism. An editor that edit wars by repetitively undoing redirects on an article that fails WP:NOT#PLOT is disruptive, even if he thinks that obeying WP:NOT#PLOT prevents him from covering his favorite topic to the depth he would like. We treat consistently treat the first two editors as disruptive editors, and ultimately treat them as vandals. I think we should treat the third case the same. I do recognize that we do not. If I had been thinking in terms of "boy, this quote is going to be framed forever", I would have said it differently.

As for that surreal arbcom experience ... I was threatened with a lifetime topic ban for trying to get a decision clarified when I wasn't even a party to the arbcom case. Blaming me for that is truly a case of shooting a messenger. I think it's telling that essentially no one from either side of the inclusionism/exclusionism debates believed that I should be blocked. A link to that debacle is for anyone that wants to read it.—Kww(talk) 12:59, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

One more clarification: an article like Bulbasaur did not, and never did, mean an article about fictional characters. At the time of the last major dispute over Bulbasaur, it did not have any third-party, independent reliable sources that examined Bulbasaur directly and in detail. Everything was sourced from the anime, games, or an official Nintendo publication. Sad to say, that is still true. The only third-party independent source that actually addresses Bulbasaur uses him as the butt of a joke about pesto. The other third party mentions are passing references: it's included in a list of names or examples, or a list of possible starters. I will also point out that having lost the dispute, I don't do anything disruptive. It's still on my watchlist, and I monitor it for vandalism. I worked on the talk page of the article when people introduced some really dodgy etymologies for the Japanese name, and, in the arbcom mess the most active editor on the article, Kung Fu Man, stood up for me.

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?

A: Pretty much what I do today: revert vandalism and keep the Disney and music articles from turning into a quagmire of blog-sourced gossip. I use WP:AIV, WP:SSP and WP:RFPP extensively today, and that's where I will probably focus.

2. What are your best contributions to Misplaced Pages, and why?

A: Well, I still have a fond spot in my heart for Humanzee. It's where I first started editing, and is where you can find my only anonymous edits. It was a piece of speculative fiction, and I worked hard to turn it into a real article. My only featured article is Natalee Holloway, where I am one of the three major contributors.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: What the Bleep Do We Know!? represented the peak of stress for me. There is something about that article that brings out the worst in editors from both sides of the pseudoscience conflict. I even had the surreal experience of seeing ScienceApologist blocked for edit-warring in a change that MartinPhi had helped write. Ultimately, it took a strategy of just going through the lead sentence by sentence, and getting everyone to agree on a version that didn't make them angry enough to revert it, and making sure everyone understood which policies would prohibit and allow what. Once people focused on making sure each sentence conformed to policy, we got to a version that no one felt compelled to revert. We put the change in with {{edit-protected}} macros, and then left the thing protected for six months. Ugly and bloody, but it worked.

The one I wish I had handled better was Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Sadi Carnot. I allowed myself to get goaded into anger. I learned from that. I may still get angry at times, but you'd have a hard time seeing it from the words I write.

Additional questions from seresin

4.How do you intend to reconcile your opinion on the notability guideline with any potential administrative actions, such as XfD?

A: Reconciliation shouldn't be necessary. My opinion on the notability guidelines isn't particularly important: I intend to be guided by whatever they say while making any decisions, not by what I wish they said. My opinions generally aren't particularly important while closing an AFD, either, because the job there is to evaluate consensus, not to do what I want. What is relevant to AFD closings is how one evaluates consensus. Currently, the !vote system seems to be turning into a vote system, and that is not how consensus is evaluated. People are supposed to argue and debate, not vote. If I encountered an AFD that was all keep and delete with no logic, I would be inclined to relist it, no matter whether it was 10:1 for keeping or 1:10 for keeping, because without debate, there is no consensus. A list of keeps with strong arguments for delete may well be a delete consensus, just as a list of deletes with a few strong arguments for keeping may well be a consensus for keeping. Given the current state of affairs, I expect that my typical path will be to relist, with a comment on the AFD requesting people to actually argue their points. I'm saddened by how the AFD process has turned away from debate and into snout-counting.—Kww(talk) 05:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Follow up Q: why did you choose to use the particular words just above, "snout counting"? DGG (talk) 00:16, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

A: Just re-read Lucifer's Hammer a couple weeks ago. It's the word the alien overlord elephants use to describe voting. First word that came to mind, and no derogatory meaning was intended.—Kww(talk) 00:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Additional questions from Dlohcierekim

5. JayHenry's dif if from April. Can you more specifically elaborate on how the sentiments expressed there would impact your decision making at XFD? Do you wish to modify, elaborate on, or expand on those sentiments?

A: I expanded above in my statements. As for my xFD behaviour, I am constrained by consensus. It's quite possible that an AFD has a consensus to keep when I believe in my heart that deletion is the desirable state. Doesn't matter. I may choose not to be the admin that closes that AFD, but I can't choose to delete it.

6. How would those sentiments affect your treatment of new editors who create articles that do not meet your standards? Specifically, would you be more inclined to warn --> block or educate/mentor?

A: Depends on a number of issues, not the least of which is that wholly subjective question of "can that soul be saved"? I point at my interactions with User:Kikkokalabud, whom I initially encountered after he recreated an article that had been redirected as a result of AFD. He had provided some new information, so I helped him merge that new information into the redirect point. Later, when he wanted to recreate another article in the same state, I helped him. I created a sandbox for him, edited and reviewed the article in his sandbox. When it looked ready, I contacted every editor that had indicated that it should be redirected, and got their opinions. They all agreed that the redirect should be undone. At that point, even though I still thought the redirect should remain, I stated my opposition and then requested restoration of the article and a history merge at ANI to bring it back. You can look at Say OK and its talk page for the article work, and User talk:Kikkokalabud for most of the rest. The merge request is here. A recent case that didn't go quite as well is Missedwardcullen (talk · contribs). Hers was worse, in that her initial edits were misguided to the point of being vandalism. I think the interaction on her talk page speaks for itself, though.

7. A new editor has created a string of utterly non notable, though well written articles. He has not received any contact from the community other than speedy notifications. What now?

A:Depends a bit on perceived age, capabilities, and intent. If that string of non-notables looks like it was intended to promote the creator's business interests, I'm probably not going to do much. If it looks like a well-intentioned editor, a strategy more like I used with the two above is in order ... getting them to understand what we're up to, and seeing if you can get them to find something they are interested in within that framework. I've come to the conclusion that the only way to save the Disney Channel area is to get a few of these kids to really understand the concept of sourcing, and turn them loose on it.—Kww(talk) 13:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Optional questions from iMatthew

8. In your own words, can you please explain the role of an administrator?

A: A lot of people use a janitor analogy ... I think the maintenance analogy is sound, although I prefer to think of it as a maintenance mechanic. With a project this big, things go wrong that need fixed. It can be little stuff, like articles that need their histories merged; day to day stuff, like blatant vandalism reversion; bigger stuff, like evaluating AFDs and implementing their results; and damage prevention, which is the area that is grayest. Damage prevention entails things like seeing an editing dispute and deciding whether it goes in the bucket of vandalism and vandalism reversion, where warning and blocking an editor is appropriate; content disputes, where you may wind up protecting an article and warning one or both sides; or reining in an incompetent newbie who may be editing in good faith, but is doing something against all consensus and guidelines. What an admin is not is a policy maker: an admin needs to be guided by policy, guidelines, and consensus, but is not a person that attempts to transform Misplaced Pages to his personal vision. That said, an admin is still an editor: he can and should edit articles; can and should attempt to sway people to his way of thinking on editorial issues; but cannot use his tools in an effort to force people to his way of thinking.

Optional questions from  Asenine 

9. In his daily editing, a newbie user edits a prominent page, and his edit is reasonably trivial. It does not violate any policies, and it contains reliable sources. Unbeknownst to them, the edit they just made was against an overwhelming consensus on the talk page. Disgruntled editors then take action and replace the edited text with their own version which was decided with consensus. Their version, however, does not include any sources at all, and is unverifiable. What should be done to resolve the issue effectively, and which editor is doing the right thing according to policy? In a nutshell: Which is more important, verifiability or consensus?

A: Truly an ugly question, and one with no perfect answer, but I assume you know that. The newbie has done nothing wrong. No one is required to check a talk page before making an edit, and his edit, being verifiable, sourced, and compliant with policy, is a good edit. If he edit wars the reversion or some other misbehaviour, there would be concerns with him, but for now, the main objective is keeping him from getting angry or upset enough that he does something rash. Now, the other group has reached what is sometimes called a local consensus. It happens all the time, usually not as egregiously as the case you describe. Some group of five or six editors decide that some statement doesn't constitute OR, when in fact it does; or that a source is independent enough that they can use it, when it fact the source has a financial tie to the subject. The best strategy to take in such cases is to expose the issue on wider and wider levels: through the various noticeboards and dispute resolution processes until you get a large enough group together that the case will be looked at and people will eventually echo our core consensus that verifiability is a core principle, and that the unverifiable material cannot be retained. Keeping the newbie calm during this process, which can take quite a while, is the hard part. It's necessary to make him feel supported and like someone understands his issue.

Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't work. There are numerous articles that fail basic guidelines like WP:N that are protected by groups of editors such as you describe. Patience is the only strategy that works. In dealing with the newbie at that stage, convincing him of that is the only hope. I would point at other places that such problems have occurred, and try to convince him that failing to get one problem corrected isn't worth leaving the project over.

10. As an administrator, many inexperienced editors will come to you for advice. Some of them will be highly puzzled as to what is going on, or even angry because of something that has happened to them in the course of their time here. It is important to keep a cool head and handle the situation well, and also be knowledgeable in how to resolve the problem; so I ask - can you give us evidence that you have successfully aided annoyed users in the past?

A: I can point to my interaction with Kikkokalabud (talk · contribs) and Missedwardcullen (talk · contribs) above. Other examples include Voices4ever (talk · contribs), whom I helped nominate Say OK for deletion in the first place, even though I later helped Kikkokalabud bring it back. Forever Kenny (talk · contribs) still has a talk page full of me helping him understand our image policies. My interactions with Vitor mazuco (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) didn't go perfectly, but are a realistic example of trying: a Portuguese-speaking editor who wants to include Brazilian charts in Misplaced Pages when no one has ever found a Brazilian chart that complies with WP:CHARTS. I fail, sometimes, but I try to stay calm. If you look at my long-term interaction with Oky103 (talk · contribs), I was having to try harder and harder to get through to her, but I never lost my temper. This interaction with Woonpton (talk · contribs) is short, but gives an impression of how some newer editors view me. I do try (and most of these editors are an example) to not revert a non-vandalising newbie without taking the time to go that that editor's talk page and leave some kind of non-templated explanation as to why.

11. Will your current activities continue if you are appointed with the mop and bucket? If not so, which will you drop/be less active in/be more active in/take up?

A: I don't foresee much of a difference. September has been a peak of activity for me (sick, and cooped up in my room for much of the day for much of the month), and I don't expect that rate to continue. I see it as an efficiency issue: since so much of my editing is spent on anti-vandalism fronts, it's faster to not have to go through AIV. I also see a problem with AIV, SSP, and RFPP response times, so I will put some effort there.

General comments

• See Kww's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.

• Links for Kww: Kww (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Kww before commenting.

Discussion

• I haven't had time to vett Kww properly, but the response to the diff provided by JayHenry seems to have been blown completely out of proportion. It was a single case of poor word selection. A single gaff is not nearly enough to garner an oppose---even from somebody such as myself. If a pattern can be shown, then by all means, oppose, but from a single diff? Especially when that diff is from OVER SIX MONTHS AGO. Come on people, it really isn't that bad, and it was over six months ago. If that is the most recent thing people can object to, then I can see myself supporting this candidate!---Balloonman 22:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

• I second this. One diff from six months ago is...stale. However, I know and trust Jay Henry and if he is opposing based on that diff I can be sure that his reasoning is clear and that he felt it was important. Protonk (talk) 23:06, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

• True, it is old, and yes he generally sticks more to the material than the editors but it does rather crystallise Kww's opinion on these matters. Not as if it were out of character. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:32, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

• • There's a difference between inadvertently blurting an uncivil comment 6 months ago, and saying something that you clearly believe 6 months ago. If one were to look through his contributions, I have no proof that he no longer things it. Wizardman 03:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
    • Maybe. I think that the candidate truly believes that the creation of articles that can never meet inclusion guidelines by long term editors is inappropriate. But I'm convinced that the wording is the important part of that diff. Had he just said "inappropriate" rather than equating the creation of crappy articles to inserting the word "penis" into an extant article then the diff wouldn't be here. I think we need to come clean and realize that there are those among us who feel strongly about the inclusion/deletion debate. People say things like Kww. I've said things like that (though I don't think as bad). That doesn't make it ok but I don't think that the two possibilities are: "it was an outburst" or "it is what he thinks to this day". I suspect (and seeing the WP:N RFC confirms) that he still feels strongly about it but that he doesn't actually walk around with "inclusionists are vandals" in his head. Protonk (talk) 15:53, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
• Inquiry To the opposition: do you all consider it distasteful or inappropriate for administrators to hold strong opinions about divisive issues? Do you not recognize a distinction between advocating for policy change (or policy enforcement) and going out and dispensing vigilante justice? For example, there is a world of difference between advocating that someone should be unblocked, and actually doing it before a consensus to unblock is demonstrated. One can bellow on WP:ANI about the injustice of a particular block, but to go out and undo it on your own is a whole other ball of wax. Do you genuinely fear that Kww is so out of touch with community norms that he’s going to go out and block, salt, and delete out of process? Or do you choose to deny him the ability to block common vandals and the like for other reasons? Have you found fault with his reports to WP:AIV? Do you have any evidence of disruption that he has caused as a result of his views on our notability policies? I just can’t see anything here but a helpful, kind, good-faith contributor and am at a loss to understand what the concern is. Can someone help me out here? HiDrNick! 00:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

  I think it will be a net negative, mainly, per Q4 above. People already are liberal with interpretations of reasons at AfD anyway, so numbers at least gives some idea of consensus. To ignore that is to remove one leg of common sense at AfD - if Kww follows his ideas then the number of relistings and/or DRVs will mushroom. Furthermore, I do not have faith in his opinion to act impartially - here he denies the fact that Bulbasaur is more notable than many Pokemon, ok it does need sources but to ignore either accidentally or deliberately intuitive (though not RS) evidence and agressively place the onus on others is unfair - and suggests to me the person has difficulty editing in a collaborative environment. I am not an expert on many areas of knowledge, and hence will listen to others more knowledgeable than me about it. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Support

1. HiDrNick! 05:17, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
2. Support. Seems experienced and knowledgeable enough for me. Probably should archive that talk page, though, and this is the first time I've supported someone who was blocked two days before submitting to an RFA. I know how it is to be blocked errantly. Useight (talk) 05:35, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
3. Support - Seems like a good contributor --Flewis 05:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
4. Aye, because I believe Kww would be anet positive here, and despite the horrible diff quoted below by JayHenry - almost any word (i.e. "unproductive") would've been OK there, but not "vandal". Black Kite 11:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
5. Support; that comment below was poorly worded, but the sentiment is understandable. Administrators should care about policies and about applying them. — Coren  12:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
6. Aye, the only reason I can think of to oppose is on grounds of serious disagreements over philosophy and principle. I don't have it in me to do that. Hiding T 13:01, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
7. Weak support (Logical Premise has some good points) per Black Kite's support and Ecoleetage's neutral. Cosmic Latte (talk) 13:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
8. Support I think he's a net positive. Jay's diff and reasoning are sound and I would normally lend more weight to them if I hadn't interacted with this candidate as much as I have. He's articulate and largely professional. This RfA will probably fail, but you should have no problem coming back in 4-6 months and showing that you put this behind you. Protonk (talk) 14:04, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
9. Support even though this editor doesn't really meet most of my criteria. I'm sick of this attitude that people are free to simply create unsourced, unverifiable garbage of no encyclopedic value, and that anyone trying to get rid of it somehow wrong. If someone is a new editor and has never used WP and makes an unsourced article then that's one thing, they're new, you help them out. If you have an experienced editor making unsourced articles that violate WP policy? They should know better. Either way, if an article can't be easily sourced , why is it here? Admins HAVE to make calls on this kind of thing, daily. I'd rather have someone who's going to be able to make the call rightly than simply sit on his hands with the lame-ass explaination of "well, I don't want to delete it because it might get some kind of sourcing one day. -- Logical Premise 14:11, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
10. Allayed my concerns. Willing to set aside own view for consensus at AFD. Interaction here was particularly heartening. The JayHenry dif was from 6 months ago. Net positive. Dlohcierekim 14:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
11. Support, overall you can be a little overly vociferous in discussions, but you nearly always do have a well-thought-out and valid opinion. I see a thorough understanding of policy and an appreciation for consensus, and your generally excellent answers to the questions above have settled any other concerns I have. I should add that while JayHenry's diff in oppose #1 is vaguely concerning, the length of time that has passed since then and the lack of a pattern of similar statements reassures me well enough. ~ mazca 17:37, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
12. Support. I suspect the candidate and I differ somewhat on how to apply some of the content policies and guidelines, but in fairness that diff is neither typical of what I've seen from him when I've come across him, nor of what I see in his contribs. I trust that he would strive to use the tools within policy, and where appropriate as guided by consensus. Xymmax _{So let it be done} 18:49, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
13. Support. Though the dif pointed out below by JayHenry (and the related beliefs and edits) is slightly concerning, the work overall of this editor definitely seems strong and I'm sure he would not use his powers liberally. I've never interacted with him, but it seems to me that the comment was just poorly worded, perhaps in a moment of anger (that hopefully would never bubble up again during adminship). Bsimmons666 (talk) 22:01, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
14. Support - Forgive and forget. Also per question 8. iMatthew (talk) 00:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
15. Support, this is likely to fail, but my extend my moral support to the candate. We're all human you know, and I would gladly vote again for the canadate if he comes back in 3-6 months. RkMnQ (talk) 01:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

    Also, the link provided by Dlohcierekim shows very positive interaction within the comunity. Sure, he messed up, but (as i said above) we all make mistakes. RkMnQ (talk) 02:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

16. Support. If all the naysayers can come up with is some strongly worded language it is evident that this editor is admin eligible. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 03:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
17. Support. Having had a look at the linked RFAR and the comments there, I think people are looking at the wrong 'quotes'. Here's one:

    Now, in such a situation, what is the appropriate action for an admin to take? It's to go have a chat with the editors ...

    Not threats, not sweats, talk. Amazingly civil, huh? Together with other statements there by people very against TTN (dare one say enraged?) yet either defending Kww or allowing as how independent thought or approaches are not bad, I find an entirely disproportionate response to the single quote cited in the opposes. I don't see 'warrior' here, I see someone who gives his opinion, but doesn't force it on people. I think I'd like to see that more often, eh? Shenme (talk) 04:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

18. Support Eusebeus (talk) 07:20, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
19. Support zOMG, an editor that gets passionate about things and argues? Say it ain't so! Come on, people, Kww does fine work around here. Passion is good for the project. GlassCobra 09:22, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
20. Support - a good editor; knowledgeable and level-headed. A poor word choice on one six-month-old diff does not negate this. - eo (talk) 12:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
21. Support, switched from Neutral I am switching to Support because, quite frankly, I am sick and tired of seeing yet another candidate get shot down by having isolated comments (or, in this case, a single sentence) from distant months yanked wildly out of context and magnified a thousandfold, thus creating a warped history that bears no resemblance to the genuine depth and scope of the candidate's full contributions to this project. Ecoleetage (talk) 12:24, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
22. Support, from neutral. Overall a good candidate, I think, and a net positive to the project as an admin. On the balance, no real reason not to support. See also: WP:AGF. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 14:13, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
23. Support Having worked extensively with Kww on a BLP to bring it to featured status, I have always found him level headed in his approach to our policies. I'm disappointed, though not surprised, to see yet another RfA turn into a one-diff-witch-hunt. Opposes like "where there's smoke, there's fire" are ridiculous and unhelpful. Kww has acknowledged mistakes he has made in the past, and granting him adminship would have a positive result on the project. The link provided by JayHenry has been blown out of proportion to a disgusting level, and it appears many opposers haven't taken the time to actually evaluate the candidate. - auburnpilot talk 14:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
24. Support. I actually thought kww was an admin already, too. Yes, he holds very strong viewpoints on some issues - there is nothing wrong with that. The WP:FICT nightmare has been incredibly acriminious in the past, and the diff cited below came at the heat of the arguments. Kww was not the only one to lose his temper and say stupid things during that debate. I'm satisfied that he has enough clue, and an ability to look beyond his own prejudices, to be a good administrator. Karanacs (talk) 16:26, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
25. Support. does good work in a very difficult area and has convinced me that the knows the difference between his opinions and the work of an administratorMjchesnel (talk) 17:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
26. Support I got confused earlier, he was trying to solve the problem. My mistake sorry, he deserves adminship for dealing properly with "annoying newbies and IPs" in the correct manor Ijanderson (talk) 20:09, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
27. Support – does have very pointed views on many issues, and I'm willing to forgive the diff from WP:FICT as something said in the heat of the moment. I consider myself to be a calm and patient individual, but per Karanacs, that debate was very heated, with plenty of sniping from either side, including myself. I don't believe his views will impact how well he can use the tools. — sephiroth bcr 21:20, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

    Support – Kww would be a great admin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KathyKW (talk • contribs) 01:06, 4 October 2008 (UTC) editor with one edit - this one. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:14, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

    Comment Agreed with strikeout. I was just dealing with this issue in e-mail. Voter is a relative of mine that heard I was having trouble, and decided to help.—Kww(talk) 02:22, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

28. Support – I am sure that, as others have noted, it would be a net benefit for Misplaced Pages if Kww were granted access to admin tools. In my dealings with him, I've found him to be an even-tempered and conscientious editor. —Hello, Control 01:13, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I don't think it'd be wise to support anyone who's such an active and dedicated partisan in the interminable notability wars. That you ever thought editors who, basically, disagree with your notability opinions should be treated "as vandals, as opposed to editors" you need to be kept away from having a block button. This led to an RFAR clarification and you completely gloss over this in your nomination. If I need a link it's WP:BATTLE. Step away from the notability wars for three or four months and I could support. It's not that you're deletionist or inclusionist. It's that I don't sense any capability to disengage. It's not healthy to be here so heavily for one cause. It never ends well. --JayHenry (t) 05:59, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
2. Oppose Very concerned by the view expressed by the candidate in the link provided by JayHenry. Classifying good faith editors as vandals is serious enough, without access to the block button. TigerShark (talk) 08:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
3. Oppose due to major concerns indicated by JayHenry. Stifle (talk) 08:53, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
4. Sorry, while I agree with you more than 50% on notability stuff, the way you go about discussion there (especially with regards to TTN) is a bit too extreme (for lack of a better word) for my liking. Giggy (talk) 10:43, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
5. Oppose, per JayHenry. This user doesn't seem to understand WP:AGF and shows signs of zealotry in the link provided by JH. --Aqwis (talk – contributions) 11:00, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
6. As much as I hate "per.." comments, Oppose per the lack of good faith showed in the diff provided by JayHenry. Ironholds 11:06, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
7. What you said in the diff given by JayHenry was just shocking, tbqh. naerii 11:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
8. Oppose As much as I dislike to pile-on, that diff provided by JayHenry is enough to oppose in itself. –Juliancolton 12:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
9. Oppose per JayHenry and initial answer to question 4 - we all have to reconcile our ideal views to what consensus is, and the comments and guidelines are liberal enough to be interpreted quite loosely as is anyway. To ignore consensus in a manner described would completely ignore at one major commonsense/intuitive guideline remaining. no thanks. I shoudl add I can see alot more DRVs a-coming as well this way...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:57, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
10. Oppose per Jay Henry. Maybe I'm misreading this...but it seems that you believe people who create articles like Bulbasaur are vandals? --Smashville 13:33, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
11. Never per JayHenry. We already have enough of these with the tools. There's not room for one more soldier on the imaginary battleground. SashaNein (talk) 14:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

    Comment Ironic, in that the "never" shows the very sort of absolutism that the candidate is being opposed for. Is there no hope of redemption/improvement/growth? Ever? For the new editor off to a rocky start, or the otherwise good contributor who never brings in sources, or the not so new but still learning admin candidate? Cheers, Dlohcierekim 14:29, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

    There are already too many current administrators trying to turn this project into a soap opera. There is no need to add one more to the cast. I encourage any further posts to be moved to this section's talk page. SashaNein (talk) 15:02, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

    I find it ironic that someone complaining about too much drama is indeed causing drama by their choice of wording. Perhaps its a case of dislike in others what they dislike in themselves? -Djsasso (talk) 21:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

12. Oppose. Among the reasons listed above, candidate doesn't seem to have mastered the edit summary - Tan | 39 14:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
13. Oppose per the link by JayHenry, which I brought to the attention of ArbCom. I disagreed with the proposal of banning Kww from fiction topics over it (it was a single faux pas, and Kww has been willing to negotiate in the FICT conflict). However, the fact that you defended to that edit as a "civil contribution" on my talkpage does not speak well for judgement. Deletionism is OK, but I think Kww has tendencies to being overly aggressive in the pursuit of this. I don't think that I can trust him with a block button in such a situation. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:59, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
14. I believe Kww's word choice has improved since April, but I have seen no such indication regarding his attitude. — CharlotteWebb 15:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
15. Strong Oppose per JayHenry and others. Ugh, I could Never trust him with the tools, his viewpoints are too ridiculous for my tastes. Wizardman 16:09, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
16. Oppose Was neutral at first because the incident occurred some 6 months ago. On reflection and based on my own analysis of certain comments he made recently, although his wording has improved, I'm not at all convinced he's ready, or that he properly understands the problems that arise if he were to take on such an approach in practice. Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:02, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
17. Oppose It's one thing to say you think WP has too many articles on x or that WP should crack down on articles on y, but it's entirely another to call editors vandals simply for working on an article you don't like... and when the article in question is a (now former) featured article with a lot of good-faith contributors, that's worse still. Maybe when that's ancient history things will be different, but a few months after? Not yet. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:17, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
18. Oppose Not comfortable providing this candidate with the tools, at this time. --Winger84 (talk) 19:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
19. Strong Oppose - Extremely misguided per the link provided by Jay Henry. Suggests a parochial understanding of policy and guidelines, and essentially what Misplaced Pages is all about. Wisdom89 _{(T / )} 20:30, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
20. OPPOSE Per the link by Jay Henry. Truely troubling. America69 (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
21. Oppose. JayHenry has it in a nutshell. DiverseMentality 23:15, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
22. Oppose Does not know what a vandal is, and so should not be trusted with the ability to block them. Erik the Red 2 ~~~~ 23:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
23. Oppose - Per JayHenry and Q9.  Asenine  01:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
24. Oppose. Kww may not be a bad person, but he does a really bad job at researching the items that he deletes. This guy deleted images from my talk page that had NO copyright violations, only his "suspicion" of such. It was a picture of womens legs.... and you want to nominate someone this petty as an admin? Please!!!! He also accused me of uploading images to Brandy Norwood's page, (check out my talk page) but if you check the history you will see I never uploaded anything there. I could change my opinion if he shows better judgment in the future. Wjmummert (KA-BOOOOM!!!!) 01:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

    Comment Wmjummert's edit is here, my revert is here. The image I removed from his talk page is here.—Kww(talk) 01:13, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

    Further comment I've tagged Image:TALK PAGE.JPG for speedy, as it is an obvious copyright violation. It has since been deleted. HiDrNick! 02:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

25. Oppose per the link provided by JayHenry. macy 02:48, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
26. Oppose I've been looking through Kww's edits, with the notion that Jay Henry's portrayal of him has been blown out of proportion. Or more accurately, that people are attaching too much weight to a single dif. While I do think the dif has been blown out of proportion, there is enough smoke in other areas that I have to oppose. Too many small areas where he's been involved with too much drama for me to support. People aren't coming to him because he is a problem solver, but rather because he is involved in the problem. Now, he might not be the problem itself, but he too intimiately associated with the problem for me to support. I don't have enough time to delve into all of the nuiances to "vindicate" you of every issue that you've been involved with or accused of being involved with.---Balloonman 03:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
27. Oppose, where there's smoke, there's fire. Lankiveil 11:43, 3 October 2008 (UTC).
28. Weak oppose position on notability seems too extreme. older ≠ wiser 12:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

    Oppose per a silly dispute with another in June on article Zachary Jaydon, then came asking for help of me believing that im an admin when im not. Sorry Ijanderson (talk) 19:43, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

29. Oppose Seems to wish to delete articles about fictional characters, which I strongly disagree with, and so not comfterable giving him admin power. ] (talk) 23:53, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
30. Oppose per JayHenry. I'm not confident that you'll be un-biased with your admin tools, especially the delete button.--KojiDude 00:06, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Neutral

Neutral. I'd support, but the diff posted by JayHenry, above, is problematic. I'm going to think on this one. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 12:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Moved to Support. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 14:14, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Neutral Switching to support I am specifically not holding the JayHenry diff against the candidate -- that is a single, isolated aberration. And let's be honest, people, we all say things that we later regret -- you don't hold one mistake against an individual while ignoring the full body of work. In this case, however, I am in the Neutral category because of the candidate's full body of work -- I am having difficulty finding anything that would push me to either Support or Oppose. Ecoleetage (talk) 12:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

1. Moral Support - we do have too many Pokemon articles. --B (talk) 16:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

   We do; I agree with you and Kww. The point is not his views, it's the way he goes about arguing them, that bothers me. People opposing solely over his views should recognise that their argument is devoid of merit. Giggy (talk) 01:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

2. Neutral - leaning support, strong edit count, understandable recent block, but also giving me a hint of WP:NOTNOW. - Jameson L. Tai 20:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
3. Neutral - I've always mistaken the candidate with admin, User:Kwsn :). Well, I was actually going to support you before reading the immense opposers' reasoning. I think I need more time.--Caspian blue (talk) 01:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
4. Neutral. Really wanted to support, but not ready (as shown by JayHenry). I think that in six months you will definitely be ready for adminship as long as you show that you can act neutrally in regards to deletion. Good luck, Malinaccier (talk) 01:32, 4 October 2008 (UTC)