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"Poor Maria" from A Sentimental Journey ... that one 18th-century reader was so offended by some chapters of Laurence Sterne's 1768 novel A Sentimental Journey Through France and Italy (scene pictured) that they glued the pages shut? ... that only two people are known to have seen Du Toit's torrent frog alive? ... that Jeanne Trevor's name was misspelled on the cover of her first album? ... that the Sitaleshwar Temple remained a place of worship even when it was in ruins? ... that the comet C/1975 T2 (Suzuki–Saigusa–Mori) was independently discovered by five observers within the span of half an hour? ... that viewers of an Indiana TV station's newscast in 1995 could send emails to the presenter live on air? ... that the diary of Erich Lassota von Steblau is an important primary source on the 16th-century Zaporozhian Cossacks of Ukraine? ... that nearly half of the wins achieved in 2024 by the San Jose State Spartans women's volleyball team were by forfeit? ... that Japan's oldest expressway is intended to be transformed into a park? Archive Start a new article Nominate an article

This page is for nominations to appear in the "Did you know" section (reproduced on the right) on the Main Page.

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List new suggestions here, under the date the article was created or the expansion began (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. If a suitable image is available, place it immediately before the suggestion. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged.

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• Proposed articles should:
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• Articles on living individuals must be carefully checked to ensure that no unsourced or poorly sourced negative material is included. Articles and hooks which focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided.
• Articles with good references and citations are preferred.
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Please note that hooks are subject without notice to copyediting as they move to the main page. The nature of the DYK process makes it impractical to consult users over every such edit. In particular, hooks will be shortened if they are deemed too long: the 200-character limit is an outside limit not a recommended length. Also, watch the suggestions page to ensure that no issues have been raised about your hook, because if you do not respond to issues raised your hook may not be featured at all.

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• Suggested sounds should have similar qualities to pictures, and should be formatted using the format {{DYK Listen|filename.ogg|Brief description}}

• Proposed lists should have two characteristics to be considered for DYK: (i) be a compilation of entries that are unlikely to have ever been compiled anywhere else (e.g. List of architectural vaults), and (ii) have 1,500+ character non-stub text that brings out interesting, relational, and referenced facts from the compiled list that may not otherwise be obvious but for the compilation.
• Please sign the nomination, giving due credit to other editors if relevant. For example:
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  • *... that (text)? -- new article self-nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- new article by ] and ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- Article expanded fivefold by ]; Nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by ~~~~
  • *... that (text)? -- Article expanded fivefold by ] and ~~~~
• When saving your suggestion, please add the name of the suggested article to your edit summary.
• Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
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• For more details see the previously Unwritten Rules.

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	{{subst:DYKno}}	No	Article is either completely ineligible, or else requires considerable work before becoming eligible

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Candidate entries

Articles created/expanded on November 14

• ...that William Blake's The Wood of the Self-Murderers is based on a passage from Dante's Divine Comedy in which bird-human hybrids feed from suicides encased in trees? Ceoil 01:21, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ...that Public Law 86-272 prevents a U.S. state from collecting income tax on solicited sales within its borders, as long as the orders are filled or shipped outside of the state? _shoot! 00:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ...that current Colorado Rockies minor league catching instructor Marv Foley is the only baseball manager to win championships in the International League, Pacific Coast League, and American Association? (new article, self-nom) -Dewelar (talk) 23:58, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ...that actor Rob Lowe reported that it looked like "Armageddon" as he fled his home with 200 foot flames and embers raining down during the 2008 Montecito Tea Fire? new article, self nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 23:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ...that Hurricane Florence of the 1994 Atlantic hurricane season was the strongest storm of the season? (self-nom) Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the coalition Anita Bryant led called Save Our Children in Miami in 1977 was the inspiration for the organization for the Moral Majority? OR

• ... that the special election to repeal the gay rights ordinance in Miami in 1977—led by the Save Our Children coalition publicly headed by Anita Bryant—was the largest voter turnout in a special election in the history of Dade County? OR
• ... that Anita Bryant's participation in Save Our Children, a coalition working to overturn gay rights ordinances in Miami and other cities in 1977 and 1978, destroyed her career? --Moni3 (talk) 20:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Bert Olmstead played 14 seasons in the National Hockey League (NHL) and appeared in 11 Stanley Cup finals? -- Article expanded fivefold (moved into article space today) and self-nom by Maxim_(talk) 18:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ...that Admiral Shigeyoshi Miwa (pictured) commanded Imperial Japanese Navy submarine forces during the attack on Pearl Harbor? <sef-nom>--MChew (talk) 15:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the 14th-century Hungarian occupation of the Bulgarian city of Vidin was described by contemporaries as a "great pain for the people"? Todor→Bozhinov 13:35, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Wouldn't "Hungarian occupation of Vidin" (1365 to 1369) fit better in the Vidin article? There is room in the Vidin article and the already discusses the period 1365 to 1369. If "Hungarian occupation of Vidin" were added to the Vidin article, it might receive more review of editors interested in the topic. -- Suntag ☼ 13:49, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• I don't think so. I believe it's a bit too in-depth for the Vidin article (it's a five-paragraph article about a four-year period in the Middle Ages, after all) and probably even for a History of Vidin article. I linked "Hungarian occupation of Vidin" from the Vidin article, I had somehow forgotten to do that, so it should be easier to access now. Honestly, I think having a well-linked separate article that would appear on the Main Page would bring more editors to the topic :) Best, Todor→Bozhinov 14:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date, and reference verified. Being too in-depth is a good point. I added {{Main}} to the Vidin article. -- Suntag ☼ 14:15, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Nice work, thanks a lot :) Todor→Bozhinov 14:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that NASDA's ETS-VII was the world's first satellite to be equipped with a robotic arm and to conduct autonomous rendezvous docking operations successfully? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom. Hook is 176 chars; if it's too long, please remove one of the facts from it. Chamal 12:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date, and hook verified. I revised the hook from "satellite was the world's first unmanned spacecraft" to "was the world's first satellite" since satellites are known to be unmanned and my reaction to reading the source artice was "They're putting arms on satellites now?" -- Suntag ☼ 13:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

lol..OK, that's fine. Chamal 14:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that in the Ofira Air Battle, at the outset of the Yom Kippur War, two Israeli F-4 Phantom IIs shot down seven Egyptian MiGs? expansion, self nom -- Nudve (talk) 09:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• - 5X Expansion (551 to 3,626) and date verified. Hook verified from the article. -- Suntag ☼ 17:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the white suckerfish responds to a touch on its belly by forcefully erecting its pelvic fins? new article by Yzx (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 06:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Hoo boy, I think this may be my favorite hook of all time.Cbl62 (talk) 06:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Caught my eye as well. Journal ref accepted IGF. Length and creation history are in order. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 13:06, 14 November 2008 (UTC) Further on the DYK approval, "Erecting" of fins, spines, etc. for fish appears to be typical wording used in scientific books and scholar papers. -- Suntag ☼ 13:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Byzantine philosopher Leo the Mathematician developed a system of beacons to give advanced warning of Arab raids and invented a levitating imperial throne? new article by Srnec (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs)

• alt ... that Byzantine philosopher Leo the Mathematician invented a levitating imperial throne? Cbl62 (talk) 06:56, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• It appears that the source calls it a "fabled levitating throne." -- Suntag ☼ 13:53, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• "Fabled" as in "renowned", not "mythical". Liutprand of Cremona gives the best-known description . Cheers, Constantine ✍ 00:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Reggie McNamara cut off his finger when he was bitten by a snake? He then broke his collarbone 17 times, his skull, nose, jaw and leg once, had 500 stitches and gathered 47 scars - all from falling off bicycles.Les woodland (talk) 06:18, 14 November 2008 (UTC)les woodland
  • The hook is not very clear. It makes it sound like he cut off his finger and broke all those bones after the snakebite. Can we have the facts organized a bit? Chamal 14:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I've changed it. Hope that's OK. 17:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)les woodland

The hook is too long at 215 characters. Can we get the hook below 200 chars? If that's hard with the current hook, we might have to remove some of the facts. I think it'd be better to have the hook as a one sentence question, so that there'll be no confusion. Chamal 01:01, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Hurricane Boris was the first hurricane of the 2008 Pacific hurricane season although it never affected land? Leave Message ,Yellow Evan home ,Sandbox Happy Veterans day`

• Is there anything more interesting? It doesn't have to be a double hook. —97198 (talk) 06:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Thats the only thing notable but I expaned it. Leave Message ,Yellow Evan home ,Sandbox Happy Veterans day 13:59, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Sorry, but Hurricane Boris (2008) has been expanded only 1.89x. We need 5x or larger expansion. 2008 Pacific hurricane season has not been expanded at all recently. Chamal 14:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that, on Christmas Eve 1942, the German 17th Panzer Division had only eight tanks and one anti-tank gun left after its failed attempt to break through to Stalingrad?
  • OR (alt hook) ... that the German 17th Panzer Division, within the first month of Operation Barbarossa, had one commander seriously wounded and another one killed in action? five-fold expanded article, self-nom EA210269 (talk) 05:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ...that film directors Sidney Meyers and Jay Leyda used pseudonyms for their screen credits on the 1937 production People of the Cumberland? (self-nom) Ecoleetage (talk) 13:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 13

• ...that Russia claimed that one of its helicopters supported some Royal Marines as they fought against suspected pirates during the Action of 11 November 2008, though the Royal Navy has denied this claim? new article by User:XavierGreen; Nom by BlueVine (talk) 21:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that most of the world's population of Northern Bald Ibis (pictured), an endangered species of birds, are found at Souss-Massa National Park in Morocco? -- new article by Jimfbleak (talk · contribs), nom. by PFHLai (talk) 15:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Length, date, hook's ref verified. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that author Gore Vidal said that the view from the belvedere of Villa Cimbrone (pictured) was "the most beautiful place that I had ever seen in all my travels"? Moved from personal page to mainspace and self-nominated by Princess Venetia di Cannoli (talk) 13:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Per the quote in the article, he actually said "the view from the belvedere of the Villa Cimbrone on a bright winter's day when the sky and the sea were each so vividly blue that it was not possible to tell one from the other." -- Suntag ☼ 14:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• I have extracted from the quotation, and its essence remains exactly the same. Here's the quotation in full: "Twenty five years ago I was asked by an American magazine what was the most beautiful place that I had ever seen in all my travels and I said the view from the belvedere of the Villa Cimbrone on a bright winter's day when the sky and the sea were each so vividly blue that it was not possible to tell one from the other." Extracting "the most beautiful place that I had ever seen in all my travels" is a perfectly valid use of the quotation. I have not changed its meaning. Princess Venetia di Cannoli (talk) 14:47, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• The DYK hook is using the wording of the question posed to Vidal as though it were Vidal's answer, which it was not. The source does not support the DYK hooks assertion. -- Suntag ☼ 15:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• It's all part of his quotation, so it's all his words, question and answer both. But never mind. How about: ALT1: ... that when asked what the most beautiful place he had ever seen in all his travels was, Gore Vidal chose the view from the belvedere at Villa Cimbrone (pictured)? Princess Venetia di Cannoli (talk) 15:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date, and hook OK for ALT1. -- Suntag ☼ 17:14, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the World Charter for Prostitutes' Rights, adopted in 1985, calls for the right to unemployment insurance and decriminalisation of adult prostitution? new article by SasiSasi (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 06:27, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• I count only 1,036 DYK characters and at least 1,500 are needed. -- Suntag ☼ 14:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the author of Autism's False Prophets, a critique of claims that autism is linked to vaccines, declined to do a book tour after receiving death threats and threats against his children? new article by MastCell (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 06:04, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• The source says "Fearing for his safety, he isn't doing a book tour. "People think of me as this wild-eyed maniac," Offit says." The source doesn't provide the timing of his decision to not do a book tour and does not seem to link his decision to death threats and threats against his children. -- Suntag ☼ 14:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• alt ...that the author of Autism's False Prophets, a critique of claims that autism is linked to vaccines, reported threats against his children and declined a book tour fearing for his safety? new article by MastCell (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 16:06, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Florence Wald, former Dean of Yale School of Nursing, has been credited as "the mother of the American hospice movement"? -- five-fold expansion, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 03:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length, date and hook ref verified. --Bruce1ee 06:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the critically endangered Golden White-eye (pictured) of Saipan is threatened by a snake that eliminated all the forest birds of nearby Guam? (self nom of Polbot created stub) Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length and creation date fine (moved from the Nov 14 section), one fact verified and the other ref accepted on good faith. JamieS93 03:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that director Robert Rossen's 1935 play The Body Beautiful, despite running only four performances, so impressed Warner Bros. director Mervyn LeRoy that LeRoy signed Rossen to a screenwriting contract?

(alt) ... that after first taking the Fifth Amendment in 1951, director Robert Rossen named 57 people as Communists to the House Un-American Activities Committee in 1953 to escape the Hollywood blacklist? - self-nom, article expanded 5x today. Otto4711 (talk) 23:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Expansion and date good, offline refs for both hooks accepted in good faith. I think the second hook is more intersting. --Bruce1ee 07:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• The references are both available through a Google books search if needed. Otto4711 (talk) 20:59, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Note: revised slightly to more accurately reflect the situation. Still falls within character limits. Otto4711 (talk) 22:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Joe Hyams' first celebrity interview, with Humphrey Bogart, came after a chance meeting with Bogart's press agent at the pool of The Beverly Hills Hotel? -- new article self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 22:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • OR (alt hook) *... that Hollywood columnist Joe Hyams coauthored Accomplices to the Crime: The Arkansas Prison Scandal, a 1969 nonfiction account that was the basis for the 1980 film Brubaker starring Robert Redford? -- new article, self nom by Alansohn (talk) 22:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Verified. Prefer the first hook. The article does rely mostly on the NYT source, but what the heck, I've been a grouch for long enough today, and the article is reasonably well-written anyway. —Politizer /_contribs 23:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • I will expand it over time, adding as much dirt as I can find ;) Alansohn (talk) 03:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the turnout in the 1997 Pakistani general election was the lowest ever in Pakistan? New article, Self nom. Davewild (talk) 22:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length, history, hook, refs all good. —Politizer /_contribs 23:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that song "Hell March" from the soundtrack of the video game Command & Conquer: Red Alert was recently featured on popular BBC TV show, Top Gear? self nom by Cabe6403 16:46, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • (alt to avoid piping:) ... that the song "Hell March" from the soundtrack of the video game Command & Conquer: Red Alert was recently featured on the BBC TV show Top Gear? —Politizer /_contribs 17:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Cyril Hilsum is the only scientist to have held both the Faraday Medal and Glazebrook Medal? 3295 chars, and this one may cause a problem; the previous article was written in an irregular list format. If you include the "listed" information the article in its current state does not beat the five-fold expansion rule, but I've always been led to believe lists don't count. Nevertheless I'm fine with you kicking this DYK out; you can find a "before" version here. Ironholds (talk) 15:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Technically it is a 5x expansion if you go by official counts done by page size. But as you pointed out, a lot of the editing was in converting a bulleted list into prose, rather than actually adding new information...so the expansion seems to be more of a change in how the article is counted, than an actual expansion. —Politizer /_contribs 17:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • There is an open (unresolved?) Copyright thread at DYK talk mentioning Ironholds. -- Suntag ☼ 18:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Yes, one that isn't related to this in any way. If you've read the thread you'll know it is ODNB related; if you've read the article you'll know it doesn't reference the DB at all. Politzer: I actually scrapped the information (I prefer to remove all unreferenced crud if possible and start over to avoid BLP issues with it remaining) but I appreciate some of the content may be the same. Ironholds (talk) 20:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
        • • Based on my glance at it, there is some new stuff and summary, but also a lot of the new prose is writing out what used to be the lists (for example, the bulleted list of awards has turned into "he won X in 1967 and Y in 1970 and Z in 1975" or something like that). The only way to ascertain the true extent of the expansion would be for a reviewer to go through and individually pick apart every fact that can be traced back to the original list and every fact that can't and then do a count based on the facts that can't...and that is a job that I have no intention of doing (although if any other reviewers want to do it, don't hesitate to undo my DYKno and jump in there). I think this is one of those instances where it's just not worth the amount of labor it would take to figure out how big the expansion was. (Maybe this is some still-unwritten corollary of Unwritten rule A3.) —Politizer /_contribs 23:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Suraj Tal, Lake of the Sun God, located at a high altitude of 4950 m below the summit of Bara-lacha-la Pass in the Lahaul and Spiti Valley is the highest lake in India?--Nvvchar (talk) 15:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • This hook gives a lot more stats and information than we need. I will suggest a new hook later, but there are other things that need to be worked on first: the article needs to be copyedited by a native English speaker (which might be me; we'll see where the evening takes me) and the refs need to be cleaned up. There may be peacock terms (and weasel words in the Tourist section); I cleared some out just now but I haven't had time to go through the whole thing. —Politizer /_contribs 23:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I have made amends by reducing the text and removing weasel words. Thanks for editing the references and also the text--Nvvchar (talk) 02:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Major League Baseball pitchers Jim Palmer and Mike Mussina each made six Opening Day starts for the Baltimore Orioles? -- new article self-nom by Rlendog (talk) 04:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• It appears that the DYK Hook (and some of the article) puts together multiple sources to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the sources listed in the article. See Misplaced Pages:No original research. -- Suntag ☼ 14:58, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Confederate Monument (pictured) in Murray, Kentucky, is the only Civil War Monument in Kentucky to prominently feature Robert E. Lee? - (created by --Gen. Bedford 04:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• "Prominently" is a comparison word. Would you please add a quote to footnote 6 in the article that supports the above hook (uses "Prominently" or something akin to it). Thanks. Otherwise, length, date, and the rest of the hook seem find. -- Suntag ☼ 15:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Done. Would you prefer "heavily".--Gen. Bedford 17:18, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that French anarchist and writer Charles Malato had a Neapolitan grandfather who suppressed a popular insurrection as commander-in-chief of the army of the last King of Naples? Self-nom by the skomorokh 00:37, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Good hook, article length and history verified. But how do you know the insurrection his grandfather suppressed was the particular insurrection you've linked to? I couldn't find that in the sources. —Politizer /_contribs 00:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Did a little reading, extrapolated, winged it; if it's not to your taste, junk it, ain't no thing. Mahalo, the skomorokh 01:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Hm...you're probably right, but just in case (in the off-chance that there was some crazy rebellion none of us know about), I think we should go more generic in the hook. I've replaced the piped Revolutions of 1848 in the Italian states with Insurgency... the hook itself still looks the same. But now we're all good and verified. —Politizer /_contribs 01:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Verified, as per my above comment. —Politizer /_contribs 01:32, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
          • Great, thanks, keep up the good work! the skomorokh 05:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Honolulu High-Capacity Transit Corridor Project led to Honolulu's 2008 mayoral elections being referred to as a "referendum on rail transit"? -- new article self-nom by Musashi1600 (talk) 09:51, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Yep, reference 28 checks out. Verified. — RyanCross (talk) 03:49, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• …that the 1916 film Cenere contains the only cinematic performance by the Italian theater star Eleanora Duse? (self-nom) Ecoleetage (talk) 19:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date, and hook OK. -- Suntag ☼ 15:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Sebastian Kohlhase was formerly a first-class cricketer, and is now a prominent sports administrator and businessman in Samoa? -- new article by Wisems; Nom by It Is Me Here (talk) 21:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• The article is only 1057 characters of content. Please expand further to over 1500 characters. — RyanCross (talk) 03:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that The Woman Taken in Adultery was forged by Han_Van_Meegeren and sold to Nazi Germany in 1945 in return for 200 Dutch paintings seized by the Nazis, for which Meegeren thought himself a national hero? New Article and Nom by Imperat§ r 01:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

afterthought - Maybe I should remove that last bit...Imperat§ r 01:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Now I've removed the rather sneaky copyvio from the National Gallery London (now ref 1), too short. Johnbod (talk) 05:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• The problem with finding some copyvio is that the entire article becomes suspect and each sentence would need to be verified before the DYK hook for the article is put on the main page. -- Suntag ☼

• ... that remains of the Tenochtitlan-era aqueduct carrying water from springs at Chapultepec can still be found in Mexico City today (pictured), but the surviving fountains have been moved? -- new article by Thelmadatter (talk · contribs), nom. by PFHLai (talk) 16:23, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 12

• ...that Paul Callaway was so short a hydraulically-operated pedalboard was custom-made for the Washington National Cathedral's organ, so he could reach the pedals comfortably? (new article self-nom ) JGHowes  14:49, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date, and hook OK. -- Suntag ☼ 15:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ...that Bridgwater Bay is the location of the last mudhorse fisherman in England? - 5x expansion by — Rod 12:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Length/expansion, date, hook's ref verified. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Flekkefjord Line (pictured) was built to be part of the main line from Stavanger to Oslo, but a change of plans made it only a branch line? —created and partially referenced by User:Sjakkalle, additional work and ref by myself, Arsenikk 23:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Indian historian and Dravidologist K. A. Nilakanta Sastri served as the Director of UNESCO's Institute of Traditional Culture?-self-nom by-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 19:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that American colonialists James Franklin and Ann Smith Franklin established Rhode Island's first printing press? (James/new/selfnom; Ann/expanded/selfnom) BTW, if you'd like to split these two apart, there are snappier hook possibilities. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• alt-1A ... that American colonialist James Franklin introduced "yellow journalism" to Boston? --Rosiestep (talk) 21:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• alt-1B ... that almanac printer Ann Smith Franklin was the first woman inducted into the University of Rhode Island's Journalism Hall of Fame? --Rosiestep (talk) 21:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that American anthropologist Richard Price was one of the first to show that Maroons, previously considered largely "without history," possessed rich and deep historical consciousness? -- new article by User:Lcyarrington; nom by Bruce1ee 14:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Good hook. Offline ref accepted in good faith. Length, history, and sourcing all good. —Politizer /_contribs 17:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that species from the underground-dwelling mushroom genus Gautieria are the preferred food source of the Northern flying squirrel? new article, self-nom by Sasata (talk) 03:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Pls bold the link to the DYK candidate article. --76.64.77.189 (talk) 15:11, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

- done Sasata (talk) 15:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

- I count 1,481 DYK characters and at least 1,500 is needed. Otherwise, date and hook are OK. -- Suntag ☼ 15:34, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

- article expanded. Sasata (talk) 18:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Zeno Vendler's model of lexical aspect, first proposed in 1959, is still widely used in multiple areas of linguistic research today? 5x expansion by self, —Politizer /_contribs 00:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • It's hard to think of an interesting hook for an article mostly on linguistic philosophy, but I just figured I'd try. Please feel free to suggest a better hook of you can think of one. —Politizer /_contribs 00:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Expansion and date good, offline refs accepted in good faith. I think your hook is fine as it is --Bruce1ee 14:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Beijing Communist Party chief Li Ximing was a leading supporter of military action against the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 that resulted in the deaths of hundreds to thousands of protesters? -- new article, self nom by Alansohn (talk) 23:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Oh hell no. Just because the guy died 4 days ago doesn't mean BLP is immediately thrown out the window (in fact, it probably means we should be even a little more respectful than usual). There's no way we can feature a person's name on the main page saying "HEY THIS GUY KILLED THOUSANDS OF PPLZ." Maybe if you suggest another hook we can look at this. —Politizer /_contribs 00:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Some clarification (and apologies for my yucky language—I struck it out because I immediately realized that this nom has more gray area than it appeared to at first). If Li played the role in Tiananmen that your article says he did (I'm not saying you're wrong, I just haven't had a chance to look at the sources yet), then we can all agree that he was probably a pretty bad dude as far as history is concerned. But suggesting this hook so recently after his death makes it look as if you (or we) were just sitting around waiting for him to die so we could say bad stuff about him. (Of course, the more likely is probably just that there was a bunch of stuff in the news about him because he died, and that's what brought him to your attention...still, that doesn't change what this looks like). And even if we did run a hook like this, there has got to be a more sensitive way to put it; even with people who we know (or at least think) are nasty people, we still need to remain neutral. —Politizer /_contribs 00:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Full disclosure. I will admit that I have started trolling the Deaths in 2008 article and the Obituary page at The New York Times website as sources for new articles that should exist and expansion of ones that are already active. An obituary usually categorizes details about someone that are unobtainable while they are alive. I will also disclose that I am not Chinese (and I am not of Asian ancestry, despite a surname that is also common in Korea), that I am a supporter of democracy in general, and that I supported the protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989 from my comfortable seat in front of a computer in the United States. I personally feel that China could have been a very different country if it had responded differently to these protests and the number of protesters killed shocks my conscience. All that said, I did my sincere best to remain neutral while writing the article. While I did include details about the results of the military crackdown, and discussed Li's support of the Army's actions, I did not assign blame to Li for the deaths or their number. Nor did I assign blame in the hook, though the 200-word limit makes what I wrote a bit more potentially ambiguous. While I am sure that the article and the hook could benefit from improvement, I still stand behind the hook and the article it leads to. Alansohn (talk) 02:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
        • That's all fair. I suggest we just wait for another reviewer to come in and judge whether or not the hook needs to be changed. —Politizer /_contribs 02:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
          • I think dropped the last bit would not harm the effectiveness of the hook, while removing the BLP concern. Circeus (talk) 02:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I am going to go ahead and give a thumbs up. The hook is well supported and in my opinion neutral. I'm inclined to assume WP:Good Faith as well in regards to the nominators actions. Length, date, references, and hook verified.Nrswanson (talk) 02:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

POV fork - The "thousands" portion in the hook is speculation. Also, "of hundreds to thousands of" reads too closely to "hundreds of thousands" (100,000s). Also, the article is not a biography. It seems to read: -- Li Ximing was born in 1926. For the next sixty three years, he didn't do anything and had no parents, wife, or children. Then he killed hundreds of people. Then he died. -- This POV fork should be merged into Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, not put on Misplaced Pages's Main Page. -- Suntag ☼ 12:30, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

A POV fork of what? This article was created from scratch, using an obituary from the Associated Press published in The New York Times (Click here for the version in the Times or see here for the AP's original text). The AP didn't provide any details regarding his education, hobbies, parents, spouse, children, friends, acquaintances, social organizations, philanthropic contributions, military service or job history that might have fleshed out this article, nor were there any anecdotes about his background that might have livened up the article. The official Xinhua News Agency was no more helpful in their article on his death (here). Using the AP obituary as a base, I searched for other articles -- some based on what I found in the AP obituary and others based on what I found in the New York Times archive -- and provided descriptions of Li and his actions in neutral terms. The AP, hardly a POV institution, described the result of the military response as "Hundreds, possibly thousands, were killed in the action, most of them ordinary citizens seeking to block the troops’ advance." I tried various rewordings to reflect the discrepancies in the number of victims, but "many" was far too vague, and picking either "hundreds" or "thousands" would provide tacit acceptance of one account and ignore the other, either way. At no point in the article or in the hook have I stated that "he killed hundreds of people"; the article (and hook) state that he supported military action, and that the military action resulted in hundreds or (not of) thousands of deaths. The one possibly useful element of the AP obituary that I did not include in the Misplaced Pages article was a statement that he previously had been a "longtime bureaucrat in the power and water conservancy fields" but I could find nothing to work with to expand this, nor would it have fleshed out his character. The article I wrote for Li is properly sourced, written neutrally and in direct proportion to the prioritization that the AP believes is appropriate. As with all articles I have created, I hope and expect that others will come along to add material and expand the article. I again stand behind what I have written as being in full compliance with any and all Misplaced Pages policies. If anyone has any questions or issues about this article, they can be addressed by editing the article or discussing the issue on the article's talk page. If there is any perceived policy violation, there are noticeboards for every policy where the claims can be considered. If anyone believes that Li is not independently notable, then WP:AFD would be the place to take it. Alansohn (talk) 13:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think the article itself needs to be moved, although I maintain that it should not be put on the main page. Articles can be good but still not appropriate for the main page; look what happened with Who's Nailin' Paylin a few days ago. It's one thing to have this article sitting around; it's another thing to take the single most negative thing from the article (wording it in a way so as to make it more negative, what with the "hundreds to thousands of deaths") and shout it from the rooftops by putting it prominently on the main page. Having an article (or at least a subsection of the Tiananmen article) contributes to the amount of factual information in the encyclopedia, and that's good; distilling it into on negative fact (don't get me wrong, we can all agree that what we did something pretty bad, but that doesn't change the fact that featuring it is very negative) just seems to be mean-spirited. (Again, I'm not meaning to call you mean-spirited; I'm just saying that's the way this hook comes off. You are an excellent and prolific contributor; it's just this hook that I disagree with.) —Politizer /_contribs 15:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I highly disagree with politizer's take on this. In this case the hook contains the essential information that makes this person notable enough to have an[REDACTED] article in the first place. The hook features the most well known and highly publicized fact about this individual. To suggest that this is somehow unfair or biased just because it is negative sets a bad precedent here at DYK. In the case of Who's Nailin' Paylin, we had the more pressing need to avoid promoting a commericial product that was about to be released. The other side of it was an obvious issue of tact and taste which doesn't exactly apply here. We have featured articles on serial killers and other people with negative hooks so I don't think there is a precedent already in place to deny this one a DYK.Nrswanson (talk) 17:34, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Nrswanson has a good point; I do disagree, though, that there the "issue of tact and taste" doesn't apply here, as I think we still need to be tactful about a hook this sensitive, given the recency of the person's death. Anyway, I am not going to try to outright prevent anyone from promoting this article as I have too much vested interest in it now; I just wanted to throw my two cents in as to why I disagree with it. —Politizer /_contribs 17:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

If Li Ximing was known for something other than Tiananmen Square than I might agree with you. But as it is, this is really the only interesting thing about the subject. Also, tact and taste with regards to a hook about an individual who has recently died is very different than tact and taste in regards to an article about pornography. In the case of Li Ximing the questions are really revolving around the language and content of the hook and not so much whether the main page of[REDACTED] should link to his article at all. In the case of porn, we are questioning not the hook but whether the main page should link to articles about pornography at all. Two very different contexts. See the current discussion about porn on the DYK talk page.Nrswanson (talk) 18:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's part of the reason I revoked my initially very strong reaction to the hook...I was going to just reject it, but once I looked at the article and then noticed there's not much else to say about the guy, it made the issue much less black-and-white. Anyway, I've said everything I can, and what to do with this hook is not my decision, so I'll shut up now. —Politizer /_contribs 18:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) Addendum: regardless of whether you choose to promote this, I just wanted to add that Suntag's comment about "hundreds to thousands" is a good one...I actually was reading the hook as "hundreds of thousands" and didn't realize my error until that comment brought the wording to my attention. I think it would be better to just go with a single "hundreds" (using "thousands" if the actual number is not agreed on might get us accused of POV pushing, whereas "hundreds" can still mean thousands if you take it to mean more than 10 hundreds) or, at the very least, change "hundreds to thousands of protesters" to "hundreds, possibly thousands, of protesters." —Politizer /_contribs 16:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Leverett Candee became the first person in the world to manufacture rubber footwear (pictured)? new article, self nom by --Doug Coldwell 22:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length and date good, offline hook refs accepted in good faith, image confirmed as free. I adjusted the footwear link. --Bruce1ee 05:57, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that author Tom De Haven attended Catholic school in Bayonne, New Jersey with fellow writer George R. R. Martin? -- new article self-nom by Arcayne () 21:39, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • wikilinked location and fellow author. Alansohn (talk) 23:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Length, date and hook ref verified. --Bruce1ee 10:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that George J. Seabury with Robert Wood Johnson I developed a medicated adhesive plaster (pictured) with a rubber base as a precursor to the Johnson & Johnson Band-aid? new article, self nom by --Doug Coldwell 21:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length, date and hook refs verified. --Bruce1ee 10:31, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... first Lionel Baker is the first cricketer from Montserrat to represent the West Indies senior side at international level? -- new article self-nom by Nev1 (talk) 21:04, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Tom Hunt, who served as chairman of Hunt Petroleum, flew on a B-24 Liberator representing the 380th Bomb Group during a flyover of Tokyo Bay to mark the Japanese surrender on the USS Missouri? -- new article, self nom by Alansohn (talk) 18:50, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Maharana Pratap Sagar or Pong Dam Lake, created by the highest earthfill dam in India on the Beas River, intercepts migratory birds on their trans-Himalayan fly path during each migration season?--Nvvchar (talk) 17:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that at the inauguration of the Templo Mayor in 1487, Ahuizotl ordered the sacrifice of so many prisoners that the stairs of the pyramid were literally bathed in blood? Self nom by Thelmadatter (talk) 17:03, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that other than visits to other institutions as a guest lecturer, James Feast lectured at the University of Durham for over 35 years? New article, self-nom, over 1,500. It was a pleasure to write, too. Ironholds (talk) 16:56, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that controversial wine writer Malcolm Gluck has declared cork taint "a serial killer of good wine"? -- new article self-nom by MURGH 15:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

(alt) ... that wine writer Malcolm Gluck has been involved in a row with Salman Rushdie over who is the quicker book-signer? hook by Victuallers (talk) 15:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC) I don't think anyone thought tainted corks were a good thing, obviously tainted corks are bad. So I suggest :(alt) ... that wine writer Malcolm Gluck has been involved in a row with Salman Rushdie over who is the quicker book-signer? hook by Victuallers (talk) 15:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date and refs for both hooks verified. I prefer the alt hook. --Bruce1ee 07:20, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Sir Philip Cohen has written over 470 peer-reviewed papers, and was the third most cited academic in the UK during the 1990s? Over 1,500, over five-fold expansion (300 chars of text to 2,800 chars of text), self nom. Ironholds (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

- expansion fine, ref ok, no pic, original and on date. Thanks ... another good'un Victuallers (talk) 15:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that architect Harry Seidler described Perth skyscraper QV.1 (pictured) as the best building he had ever built? -- self-nom de-stubbed (5x) - Mark 14:05, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that John Daly, a New York City criminal, was rumored to be paying $100,000 a week in protection money to the New York Police Department in the late 1800s? Nomination from AfC. TN‑X-Man 14:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that in Norse mythology, Sinmara is a female companion of Surtr, leader of the fire jötnar at Ragnarök? Complete rewrite and 5x expansion. Self-nomination. :bloodofox: (talk) 13:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• - more than fivefold expansion on this date (134 characters to 1646), hook is below 200 characters, offline reference accepted in good faith. - Mark 03:15, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
• actually on second glance the article lacks specific inline citation for what is asserted in the hook. Can this be fixed, please? - Mark 03:18, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Gwilym Davies was the first person to broadcast in Welsh, on St David's Day 1923? new / self-nom Bencherlite 11:23, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length, date and hook refs verified. --Bruce1ee 07:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Vicki Berger's father created the Oregon Bottle Bill, and she was responsible for amending it 36 years later? (self) Aboutmovies (talk) 10:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that most of the place names in Palestine are Arabised words with ancient Semitic roots that were preserved by the local indigenous population, facilitating their identification with biblical sites? (self-nom, new article) Tiamut 05:56, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Eduard August von Regel (pictured), a 19th century German botanist, named and described over 3000 new plant species? -- new article, self-nom by Earthdirt (talk) 04:45, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The article is currently only 1187 characters of prose. Can you add some more to get it to above 1500? --Bruce1ee 07:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • How about now? I prose-ified some of it and expanded his history section, and another ref. It is now at 2,311 bytes.Earthdirt (talk) 18:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
      • That's better, thank you. Length and date good, offline hook refs accepted in good faith, image confirmed as free. --Bruce1ee 05:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Augustin Trébuchon was shot 15 minutes before the end of the First World War? The army ordered him to attack even though the armistice had been signed. He was carrying a message reading "Your food will be ready at 11.30." -- new article self-nom by Les woodland (talk) 04:42, 12 November 2008 (UTC)les woodland

• No qualifying article. Article does not even exist, nor does it ever seem to have (as far as I've ascertained)... —97198 (talk) 05:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Furthermore, no (relevant) ghits. —97198 (talk) 05:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Ghits are found under new spelling. Dr.K. (talk) 05:59, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. Author submitted the article as Augustin Trébuchet (French soldier). —97198 (talk) 08:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes he did. I corrected the entry. Thank you for your help. Take care. Dr.K. (talk) 15:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the National Guard Militia Museum of New Jersey has on display the Intelligent Whale (pictured), an experimental Civil War-era submarine propelled by a hand crank operated by its four-man crew? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 04:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length, date and hook ref verified. --Bruce1ee 07:59, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • A great image for the lead spot; I thought it was a flying saucer. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Tina Andrews is the first African-American to win the Writers Guild of America award for Original Long Form?

• (ALT)... that Tina Andrews's portrayal of Valerie Grant on Days of our Lives marked the first interracial romance shown in Daytime Television? New article, self-nom. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 04:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Both these facts are referenced to her own official website. Is that alright? Also, was her interracial romance the first shown on daytime television anywhere in the world, or just America? - Mark 02:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• As for Mark's first question, no, that's definitely not all right; thank you, Mark, for catching that. The second question is also valid; that will have to be clarified in both the hook and the article. —Politizer /_contribs 03:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that a piece of the Soviet Sputnik 4 spacecraft crashed into the street near the Rahr West Art Museum (pictured) in the United States? Should the Cold War be mentioned for context? self-nom, new article by Royalbroil 03:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• (ALT)... that Manitowoc, Wisconsin held a "Sputnikfest" in 2008 to celebrate a piece of the Soviet Sputnik 4 spacecraft that crashed near the Rahr West Art Museum in 1962? Royalbroil 03:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date and hook refs verified. I prefer the ALT hook and suggest that "Sputnik 4" be replaced by "the Soviet Sputnik 4 spacecraft". --Bruce1ee 08:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me - adds more context - so I altered the hook. Royalbroil 13:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Hugo Bettauer was murdered in 1925 by a Nazi sympathizer after publishing "The City Without Jews," a prophetic satire depicting Vienna after the city's Jews were expelled on stock cars? new article by HeartofaDog (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 03:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

At the time of nomination, the article needs in-line cites, but this is a fascinating story that deserves a place on the Main Page. Hopefully, it will be cleaned up. The core facts are verified at pages 31-34 of this Columbia University publication. Cbl62 (talk) 03:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Owensboro, Kentucky's Confederate Monument was placed by the courthouse, even through Confederates burned down a previous courthouse in the city?(created by --Gen. Bedford 02:45, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the "sculptor of the Confederacy", George Julian Zolnay‎ (pictured), was actually Hungarian? (created by --Gen. Bedford 05:18, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Surely the incredible bit for a "sculptor of the Confederacy" was that he was born in 1863! He (as an adult) missed the Confederacy by a number of years Victuallers (talk) 16:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I thought about it, but I couldn't think of a good unclunky way to word that. The fact that he's Hungarian is curious thro.--Gen. Bedford 17:49, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Modified to "Hungarian"; at the time it was all part of Austria-Hungary.--Gen. Bedford 05:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

ALT1 How about ... that the "sculptor of the Confederacy", George Julian Zolnay‎ (pictured), was born in Hungary seven years after the end of the Confederacy? Also, the article could some inline cites. -- Suntag ☼ 12:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't work, as it looks like he was born in Roumania, not Hungarian (although Hungarian is his nationality). Also, he was born in 1863, the day after Gettysburg and the day of Vicksburg, not seven years afterward. Also, what do you mean it needs inline cites; it's full of them.--Gen. Bedford 15:52, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

LOL. Wow. I was wrong on three accounts. I review the article and don't know how I came to those conclusions. I have to plead BLATTOMR ("being loopy at the time of my review") on this one. -- Suntag ☼ 18:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that ancient Greek klismos chairs became fashionable again at the eve of the French Revolution?--Wetman 03:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Nice hook, but the article doesn't verify this. There is no mention at all of the French revolution, and although it does mention that the chairs became popular around 1788 (you should still mention somehow that that was the eve of the revolution, for readers who don't know), there's no inline citation for that. —Politizer /_contribs 03:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Is it really necessary to spoon-feed the French Revolution link in the article just to match the hook? Also there is an inline citation for the date at the end of the sentence. Yomangani 12:17, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Yes, it is necessary; there should never be anything in the hook that isn't in the article, and you shouldn't expect the average reader to have all the knowledge you do (if you did, why would you have bothered writing the article?). As for the inline citation at the end of the sentence, if you are referring to citation 1, that citation is useless for verifying. It's not a citation to a source, it's just a citation saying "by the way there's a picture of a chair in this one painting," and it only links to another Misplaced Pages article. And, that citation isn't verifying the fact that the chairs "became fashionable again" at that time (your wording in the hook), or even the fact that they "were first widely seen in Paris" at that time (your wording in the article); it's only verifying the fact that the chair happened to appear in this one painting. Call it "spoon-feeding" if it makes you happy, but you need to put your stuff in your article. —Politizer /_contribs 14:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Not mine to put my "stuff" in, but I applaud you for your insistence on the inclusion of the words "French Revolution" in the article just so there's no confusion for those reading the hook. Wait! It said the "eve of the French Revolution" in the hook, but here it just says 1788. How can that be? I'm sorry the term "spoon-feeding" seems to have offended you; I wasn't expecting the reader to have all the knowledge I do, but I was crediting them with the ability to a) click a link and b) work out that 1788 and the eve of the French Revolution weren't mutually exclusive. Yomangani 14:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
          • Sorry, that's not how it works. The onus to work things out is on you the editor, not the reader. Don't assume that all readers have the same educational background as you do. —Politizer /_contribs 15:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
            • Also, putting together the date, the French Revolution event, and the chair interest to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the article sources would seem to be original research. In this case, the DKY hook implies that the French Revolution somehow influenced the interest in the chair. While this may be true, there is no sourced evidence of that and Misplaced Pages should not be the originating source for that thought. -- Suntag ☼ 18:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
              • It does no such thing, it merely puts the event in a temporal context. There is no "novel conclusion" implied in the hook. I find it rather condescending to treat the readers as if they don't have two brain cells to rub together, but, since it seems to be the standard practice, I shall leave it you to emasculate the hook. Yomangani 12:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
                • So anyone who doesn't know the date of the French Revolution off the top of their head suddenly "doesn't have two brain cells to rub together?" Real smooth. —Politizer /_contribs 15:04, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
                  • Oh, please feel free to reinterpret whatever I write to fit your own view. It's not me that is insulting the reader's intelligence here. I was suggesting that putting "the eve of the French Revolution" (with a link too, mind, so if they are interested they can click it) might actually not cause the average reader's brain to implode if they then saw the date 1588 in the article. They don't need to know that it is the eve of the French Revolution: if they are unable to work out the connection they will not be harmed in any way. If they can work out the connection (if they have those two brain cells) they may be educated. But apparently they are not to be credited with even a modicum of reasoning ability, instead we must treat them like they believe that anything not mentioned in the article does not exist, are incapable of the association of ideas, and, worse, that not spoon-feeding them these details will somehow injure their delicate poorly-formed brains. The audience that this approach caters for isn't reading DYK, it is sharpening its beak on a cuttlefish bone (apologies to budgies, I may have dumbed you down). Yomangani 18:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Where to put "(pictured)"? --76.64.77.189 (talk) 15:11, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the fungus Paecilomyces lilacinus kills nematodes in the soil, but has also colonised intraocular lenses in people? ...exp by Sasata (talk · contribs), nom by Casliber (talk · contribs)
  • I have no idea what that means. —Politizer /_contribs 15:07, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

how about ... that the soil-dwelling nematode-killing fungus Paecilomyces lilacinus has also been known to cause human eye infections? Sasata (talk) 18:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Barry Munitz, controversial CEO of the J. Paul Getty Trust, was forced to pass up a $2 million severance deal due to lavish expense account spending when he resigned to return to academe? New article self-nom by Dwalls (talk) 03:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Outlaws, a 1960–1962 NBC western television series, featured the beloved dog who appeared in Disney's Old Yeller film?--self-nom Billy Hathorn (talk) 05:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

OR:

• ... that Outlaws, a 1960–1962 NBC western television series, featured episodes about the notorious Sam Bass and the Dalton brothers?--self-nom Billy Hathorn (talk) 05:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that before she was disassembled for scrap in 1932, USS Holland, the first submarine commissioned by the U.S. Navy, spent many years as an attraction in the amusement park Starlight Park? -- new article by Fordmadoxfraud (talk · contribs), nom. by PFHLai (talk) 00:01, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that according British wine critic Jancis Robinson, only certain wines can improve significantly with age, and most wine is consumed too late rather than too early? -- new article by Agne27 (talk · contribs), nom. by PFHLai (talk) 23:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 11

• ...that Anarchy Alive!, a 2007 book by Oxford-educated academic and anti-authoritarian activist Uri Gordon, has been cited as a "defining text" of the contemporary anarchist movement? Self-nom by the skomorokh, author article forthcoming, alternate hooks welcome. the skomorokh 20:35, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Li Yong (pictured with Guido Mantega) was the first and second secretary to the United Nations Mission from China? New article by ~the editorofthewiki ~ 01:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Currently 1490 characters. Seems weird that he would hold both 1st & 2nd secretary positions at the same time. Mitico (talk) 14:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Give it another look -- I just extended the character count past the 1,500 mark. Ecoleetage (talk) 17:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length (1523 characters), date & hook confirmed. Mitico (talk) 20:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Georges Bizet's Symphony in C (Bizet pictured) was a completely unknown piece until it was discovered at the Paris Conservatory library in 1933, nearly 60 years after Bizet's death? (Article by User:JackofOz, nom by me. Wizardman 22:06, 13 November 2008 (UTC))
  • Length, date and hook refs verified. The picture is PD but is not currently in the article. --Bruce1ee 07:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I've added the picture to Symphony in C. --Bruce1ee 07:50, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Jewish immigration to Puerto Rico began in the 15th century and that Puerto Rico has the largest and richest Jewish community in the Caribbean? - Self nom by Tony the Marine (talk) 19:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

:* Nice article. Length & date okay. I'm with you at "began in the 15th Century", however I don't see "largest and richest" anywhere in ref #10. Mitico (talk) 19:57, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Oh, I see it now in ref #14. Mitico (talk) 20:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Glen Ord is the only remaining single malt scotch whisky distillery on the Black Isle in the Highlands of Scotland? - Self nom by Cabe6403 16:34, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Too short, currently only 1202 charachters of prose. And the lead (also the source of the hook) is "copy & pasted" from the the second reference. - Mitico (talk) 19:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that many Erie County Democrats considered boycotting an election when Antoine Thompson (pictured) was not endorsed by the Party?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:16, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length & date okay. The above hook may be okay, but I had troubles getting my hands around it. I think I got hung up on "many" (how many's many?) and "endorsed" ... since it was more of a choosing of successor. I'll propose the following: Mitico (talk) 20:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• (alt hook 1) ... that Erie County Democrats elected Antoine Thompson (pictured) to the New York State Senate months after voters considered boycotting when he was not picked as the successor to the seat?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitico (talk • contribs) 20:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• (alt hook 2) ... that Erie County Democrats elected Antoine Thompson (pictured) to the New York State Senate after defeating cousins Marc Coppola and Al Coppola during the 2006 election?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitico (talk • contribs) 20:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I don't think in succession is correct because Marc ran in both the primary and general election. Thus, I would either remove "in succession" or go with alternative 1.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Ok. I removed "in succession" I'll let the hook pickers select which one. Thanks. Mitico (talk) 21:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that chemists use volcano plots to understand which catalysts have "just the right amount" of attraction towards the reacting compounds? Self-nom, created Nov. 11. (Note: the link given is actually a redirect to Sabatier principle, but I think it makes a catchier name for the hook). --Itub (talk) 11:07, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Rob Epstein, Academy Award winner for The Times of Harvey Milk and Common Threads: Stories from the Quilt, also directed Paragraph 175 chronicling the treatment of homosexuals in Nazi Germany? new article by Telling Pictures (talk · contribs) and cbl62 (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 07:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the historic Wayne Morse Farm in Eugene, Oregon was the home of Wayne Morse who represented Oregon in the United States Senate from 1944 until 1968? Self-nom.--Orygun (talk) 03:55, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the first railroad depot in Stanford, Kentucky was built due to a compromise between Union general Ambrose Burnside and the Louisville and Nashville Railroad? (5x expansion by --Gen. Bedford 00:33, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that U.S. federal judge Malcolm Marsh's father and uncle both served as presidents of the Oregon State Bar? (self) Aboutmovies (talk) 23:40, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Verified! Ecoleetage (talk) 17:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that there are nine Interstate Highways in Central Illinois, six of which are primary? - expanded stub Marcusmax(speak) 23:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• How does one determine which highways are "major?" The refs just point to maps (google, for instance). Also, expansion just shy of 5x (stub = 776*5=3880; currently 3771). -Mitico (talk) 21:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I changed major to primary, and will do the same in the article. 3 digit Interstates are known as Auxiliary, while 2 digit are primary as explained in the article Interstate Highway System. There was cleanup done so the article fell a little short of 5x but I can go deal with that now. -Marcusmax(speak) 21:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• This seems to be original research. I can't find anything in your sources that would this. I welcome other comments, but I think counting the number of 2-digit highways in the central part of the state would constitute unpublished analysis. Is there another hook you can suggest? Mitico (talk) 13:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Per WP:SYN, "synthesis occurs when an editor puts together multiple sources to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the sources." The conclusion provided by the DYK's hook does not appear to be in any of the sources. -- Suntag ☼ 14:04, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• (alt:)... that Caterpillar Inc. employs 4000 Central Illinois workers at it's Peoria headquarters? - In order to not stir up any problems, this alternate hook should be in order. -Marcusmax(speak) 22:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date & hook verified for alt hook. Mitico (talk) 00:47, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Columbia Park in Torrance, California served as the home field for U.S. Women's soccer players Joy Fawcett and Carin Jennings-Gabarra? -- new article, self-nom by -- Suntag ☼ 20:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date & hook verified. Mitico (talk) 13:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Michael Higgins prepared himself for a career in the theater by working to rid himself of his Brooklyn accent as a teenager? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 20:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date & hook verified. Might consider wikilinking Brooklyn accent? -Mitico (talk) 21:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I thought I had already. Thanks for the suggestion. Alansohn (talk) 21:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the English mathematician and geographer Robert Hues (his book pictured) served his master Thomas Grey, the last Baron Grey de Wilton, while Grey was imprisoned in the Tower of London? — Cheers, JackLee 19:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC) (expanded an article created by Delirium and nominated it).
  • Expansion confirmed and date good, offline hook refs accepted in good faith, image confirmed as free. --Bruce1ee 09:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Terence Mitford, who spent his whole academic career as an archeologist at the University of St Andrews, was a member of the SAS during the Second World War? new / self-nom Bencherlite 17:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the first journal articles written by the entomologist Robert Perkins were published when he was a classics student with no scientific education? Self-nom / new Bencherlite 10:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Article only says he was a classics student, doesn't say he had no scientific education. Ref is offline so I can't look into it. Please clarify this issue or suggest a new hook. —Politizer /_contribs 16:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Try again: the article already says "After two years of studying classics, he switched to reading Natural History, notwithstanding that he had not studied science at school." Bencherlite 16:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
      • verified with offline reference accepted in good faith, I'm also suggesting an alternate hook:
        • ... that entomologist Robert Perkins had his first scientific journal articles published when he was a classics student and had never studied science in school? —Politizer /_contribs 18:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that a diverse group of people have been deported from the United States, including Jamaican boxer Trevor Berbick, political activist Emma Goldman, and Indian guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh? -- self-nom by Cirt (talk) 10:12, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • (alt:)... that the wide variety of people who have been deported from the United States includes Jamaican boxer Trevor Berbick, political activist Emma Goldman, and Indian guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh? (I like "wide variety" better than "diverse group, but there's nothing actually wrong with your hook either.) —Politizer /_contribs 16:00, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I like the first one better - it's shorter, more concise and less wordy. Cirt (talk) 14:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that in a baseball match held at the Capitoline Grounds on June 14, 1870, the Brooklyn Atlantics defeated the Cincinnati Red Stockings, ending their 84 game winning streak? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by Neonblak - 08:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Confederate Memorial (pictured) in Nicholasville, Kentucky took sixteen years to fund, and was originally a Yankee? (created by --Gen. Bedford 08:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

"a Union memorial? A "Yankee" (slangy pejorative) is an individual.--Wetman 16:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... (alt hook) that the Confederate Memorial (pictured) in Nicholasville, Kentucky took sixteen years to fund, and was originally a statue of a Union soldier?

Better?--Gen. Bedford 16:45, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... Mike Shanahan and Dan Reeves are tied for the most playoffs games coached (13) with the Denver Broncos? new article self-nom by -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 06:27, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Only 1060 characters of prose. —97198 (talk) 07:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• How about now? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 07:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Still only at 1187 - it'd need another paragraph about the size of the first one to get to 1500. —97198 (talk) 11:22, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

SHould be over 1500 characters now. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 00:40, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Wow - 1500 characters exactly. A first? I'll leave the rest for someone else to check as I'm not very sporty (and we don't play much American football here in Australia). —97198 (talk) 05:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• There's 1559 chars now :) Anyway, even though it's short, it's very well referenced. I don't see any reason not to put this on the main page. Length, date, refs verified. Good luck with the FLC! Chamal 15:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Original research To generate the DKY hook, the editor put together two source to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the sources. I don't think we should post original research on the Main Page. -- Suntag ☼ 12:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I agree with Suntag. Unless some other source specifically says the two guys are "tied," I don't think it should go up. The main problem is the use of the word "tied," which makes it appear as if they were in some sort of widely acknowledged contest to coach the most playoff games. Of course, if you remove that and say something like "this guy and this guy have both coached 13 games" the hook becomes outrageously boring. —Politizer /_contribs 15:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Doesn't the table prove it that it is true? How about if I reference it to the general reference? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 20:58, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• (ALT) ... that Frank Filchock, Jack Faulkner, Mac Speedie, Jerry Smith, John Ralston, and Red Miller have all spent their entire coaching careers with the Broncos? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 21:04, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that despite only having emigrated from Ireland to Zambia in 1951, James John Skinner was named the first Zambian Minister of Justice in 1967 and Chief Justice in 1969? self nom--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 06:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • (alt:)... James John Skinner was the only White member of the Zambian cabinet when that nation gained independence in 1964?
    • I copyedited the second hook. —Politizer /_contribs 06:26, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the day after his 32nd birthday General Archibald Gracie III (pictured) was looking out at the Union lines through his telescope when an artillery shell exploded in front of him killing him instantly? New Article Self Nom. Duke R. Oliver I 02:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

205 character hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 07:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• (alt:)... that the day after his birthday, General Archibald Gracie III (pictured) was looking out at the Union lines through his telescope when an artillery shell exploded in front of him killing him instantly? Under 200 if you remove "32nd." That hook still needs some copyediting, but at least the length is down. —Politizer /_contribs 21:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Length, date verified. Offline hook reference accepted in good faith. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:34, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the fungus Albatrellus subrubescens was first collected from Florida ... and Czechoslovakia? ...exp by Sasata (talk · contribs), nom by Casliber (talk · contribs)

• ... that the U.S Chemical Corps was reactivated in 1976 to create a binary chemical weapon, the now-canceled BIGEYE bomb? Created by Ivoshandor, nomination by RockManQ 19:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • ... that the BIGEYE bomb was designed to spray VX (nerve agent) over a target area by gliding through the air over it? RockManQ 19:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Actually the Chemical Corps wasn't reactivated soley to do the bomb, the fact that they wanted a binary chemical weapons program led to accusations that it was just to justify their reactivation. So I say go with the alt. --IvoShandor (talk) 22:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Ahh, must of accidently misinterpreted it. Ok, go with the alt. RockManQ 00:03, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
        • The bomb was never actually built. I think a clearer hook would be: ALT ... that the proposed Bigeye bomb was designed to spray VX nerve agent over a target area by gliding through the air over it? --Bruce1ee 09:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
          • Sounds good. RockManQ 00:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the term battery in baseball was first used by Henry Chadwick (pictured) in reference to the firepower of a team's pitching staff, inspired by artillery batteries then in use in the American Civil War? Five-fold expansion. — RyanCross (talk) 21:26, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The hook is pretty long-winded. Please shorten it. There seems to be nothing wrong with it actually; I may've been reading it incorrectly in the edit screen. Length, hook and date verified. :) PeterSymonds (talk) 21:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Rolls-Royce LiftSystem (pictured) was awarded the prestigious Collier trophy in 2001? Self-nom. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 00:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Where to put "(pictured)"? --76.64.77.189 (talk) 15:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC) I put next to the target article. Mitico (talk) 22:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Date & hook verified. The article history indicates that there are "text extracts from the Pratt & Whitney F135 and General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136 articles (also F-35 Lightning II). To qualify for DYK, content must be new. In reviewing these articles, there is some overlap mostly in describing the F35 & the contracts. Outside of these point, the Liftsystem article is unique and thorough in its discussion of the vertical propulsion system. Based on my rough calculations there is enough new content to result more than 5x expansion. It was difficult to determine, but I am 99% confident (which explains the AGF tick). Mitico (talk) 22:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
• The image above might not look good on the main page. It would be cool to use the public domain vertical landing video clip. Though I don't think I have ever seen this kind of media on the main page. Mitico (talk) 22:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 10

• ... that despite being captured during the Battle of the Philippines, the Nurse Corps regiment known as the Angels of Bataan continued to serve as a nursing unit throughout their internment? (Article created by Ksibley (talk · contribs), nominated by --Flewis 14:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC))
• ... that Democrat Robert A. Miller lost to Republican Binger Hermann in the 1890 U.S. Congressional elections despite Democrats gaining 78 seats in the House that election? (self) Aboutmovies (talk) 23:37, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • That's the most interesting hook you've got? That stuff happens all the time. Every time Democrats (or Republicans) gain a lot of seats, some Democrats (or Republicans) still lose the election. It's never 100%. —Politizer /_contribs 15:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Nobody said it was unique. I found it interesting that in an election when there were 333 seats that Republicans won just 88 of those contests (less than a third), and that this Democrat was unable to unseat the incumbent during such a big power swing. And going by this it appears there have only been a hand full of times where there have been bigger shifts in power the last 150 years or so since the modern Republican/Democrat dichotomy. Aboutmovies (talk) 23:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • That makes him one of 88 other Democrats who didn't win. Can you think of any other hooks? —Politizer /_contribs 23:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Also, there appear to have been only 332 seats and it is not clear that all 332 were up for election in November 1890. I tried to word an ALT hook to bring out the disparity better, but was unable. -- Suntag ☼ 17:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Loyola College in Maryland, a Jesuit college with "little athletic tradition," has had 13 first-team All American honorees from the men's lacrosse team? -- new article by User:Interzil; Nom by Mitico (talk) 15:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Učka Tunnel's second tube is awaiting construction since 1981? --self-nom, transferred from user space. Admiral Norton 13:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• The article says that the second tunnel hasn't been completed yet, but it doesn't assert that the second tunnel has been planned since 1981. How about:

• ... that the duplication of the Učka Tunnel (pictured) in Croatia is finally underway, 27 years after the completion of the first tunnel? - Mark 03:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that could do it. Admiral Norton 17:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that millwrights from Canterbury, Kent built a Windmill (pictured) in Jerusalem, Israel in 1857? new article by Epson291; Nom by Mjroots (talk) 08:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that James-Younger Gang member "Dick" Liddil (pictured) surrendered to authorities after killing Jesse James' cousin, reportedly out of fear of that James would seek revenge? new article by Lhw1 (talk · contribs) and cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 05:45, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that pre-operative transsexual Japanese adult video actress Miki Mizuasa was nominated for the Best Actress award at the 2007 Adult Broadcasting Awards? new article by Cherryblossom1982 (talk · contribs), nom. by cbl62 (talk · contribs) Cbl62 (talk) 02:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

We decided last week to not feature pornography-related articles on DYK in the case of Who's Nailin' Paylin?. Royalbroil 14:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I understand the decision on the Nailin' video, given the use of a slang term for sexual intercourse that many consider crude. But was there really a consensus that no hook involving the adult film business can ever be featured on DYK? I have not nominated such an article before, but this individual's nomination for a "Best Actress" award despite being a man (pre-operative), is pretty extraordinary and unusual. I intentionally avoided a hook that uses any crude movie titles or the like. And we have had transsexual hooks before, e.g., the hook in July about Bethany Black being "Britain's only goth, lesbian, transsexual comedian." I don't think there should be a blanket rule about someone truly interesting just because he/she's an adult film star -- or a transsexual. Cbl62 (talk) 08:35, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I definitely think it was right to avoid "Nailin Paylin", but this hook is very modest in comparison - not crude or offensive at all (IMO). It does seem unfair to "disqualify" the hook simply because of the nature of the article (assuming that is does satisfy all WP policies and guidelines such as verification, tone, NPOV). —97198 (talk) 10:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure that the Jenna Jameson article could have a summary that wouldn't be crude either, but it won't be going on the main page as the TFA. I'm not questioning the notability of the subject. I'm questioning whether or not we want to see a porn article on the main page. I ticked it "no" so there's time to do a discussion instead of a last minute knee jerk reaction. I don't think it belongs. I hope others will see it and comment with their opinion. Copied to talk page - let's discuss it there. Royalbroil 14:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the exact reasons that Who's Nailin' Paylin got rejected (I assume because, like you said, we judged pornographic content to be objectionable), but my personal objection to it wasn't so much the pornography thing as the BLP issue, since it objectified a living individual and portrayed her in a negative light. This hook doesn't say anything bad about a living individual, and Mizuasa's career is (as far as I know; I haven't read the article) her own choice. —Politizer /_contribs 15:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

For a pre-operative transsexual, the hook should say that Miki Mizuasa is an "actor" nominated for the "Best Actress award." --76.64.77.189 (talk) 15:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• What is the purpose of using "adult" twice in the DYK nom? -- Suntag ☼ 17:30, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• One to point out that the subject is a porn actress (as opposed to a regular actress), the other is part of the official name of the awards ceremony. I don't think there's any way to get around having the word twice, unless we were to replace "adult video actress" with "pornographic actress," and I doubt that would go over well with anyone (including me). —Politizer /_contribs 17:51, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that pre-operative transsexual Miki Mizuasa was nominated for the Best Actress award at the 2007 Adult Broadcasting Awards even though she was born a male? -- Logically, she must be an actress in the adult entertainment field to be nominated. Anyway, this all seems academic since a reasonable amount of the 1,500 DYK characters for this article should come from secondary sources independent of the topic rather than from blogs and websites. -- Suntag ☼ 22:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• For the time being we can't give this article approval. The current discussion regarding porn on the talk page has concluded that we need to gain a community consensus beyond DYK before allowing such material onto the main page. In other words, we're declining all porn related articles right now until the community at large gives us a thumbs up or thumbs down.Nrswanson (talk) 00:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• WP:NOTCENSORED - we already have a policy which covers this. Porn-related stuff has already been on the Main Page several times before. Whether Raul654 would put the topic up as Today's Featured Article is irrelevant. - Mark 09:49, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• And further on Mark's comment, consensus in the current discussion regarding porn on the DYK talk page is that DYK needs to gain a community consensus beyond DYK before DYK can outright censor such material from the main page. DYK is not going to decline all porn related articles because of their subject matter. That would violate WP:NOTCENSORED. -- Suntag ☼ 16:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the bacterium Propionibacterium freudenreichii is responsible for forming the holes in Swiss cheese by releasing carbon dioxide? --new article, self-nom by 4dhayman (talk) 02:12, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date & hook verified. Mitico (talk) 14:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that John Trudeau established the Britt Festival in Oregon in 1962, the first of its kind in the Pacific Northwest of the US, and now a four-month long celebration of music and musical theater? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 02:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the acquisition of the Corus Group on October 20, 2006 has made Tata Steel India's second largest company in the private sector? -created by User:Hrukna and nom by-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 01:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Template:Km to mi long and Template:M to ft deep Saguenay Fjord is a fjord in Canada, located in Quebec's Saguenay River valley amidst the Laurentian Upland? -- new article, self-nom by SriMesh | talk 01:33, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Everything verified, but could you suggest a new hook? "X is a fjord" might be eye-catching for Slartibartfast, but probably not for many others. —Politizer /_contribs 06:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
    • ALT 2... that a Template:M to ft tsunami was created when Broke Off Cliff fell into Western Brook Pond, which is a fjord in Canada?
    • ALT 3... that a skookumchuk, or strong water (tidal rapid), is a phenomenon of fjords in Canada as the volume of tidal water inside the fjord depths tries to pour out to, or in from, the more open waters beyond?
    • ALT 4... that the Anaktalak, Saglek and Nachvak fjords in Canada off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador are being studied for environmental changes due to climate warming?
    • ALT 5... that hurricane force squamish outflow winds affect the Fjords of Canada and Norway?
    • Tried some different hooks as per request. SriMesh | talk 18:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Let's consider ALT 2 and ALT 4, those ones are the most interesting. —Politizer /_contribs 18:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Length, date, and hook/ALT 2 ref verified. --Rosiestep (talk) 22:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Survival of the Shawangunks is a triathlon boasting seven transitions between events, and requiring competitors to swim with their running shoes? --new article, self nom by otherlleft (talk) 17:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Edit:... that the Survival of the Shawangunks is a triathlon boasting seven transitions among events, and requiring competitors to swim with their running shoes? --grammar was incorrect, sorry!--otherlleft (talk) 19:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I would like nothing more than to see a triathlon article on the front page, but could you de-orphan this article first? Also, the hook isn't cited in the article, although I think that can be fixed easily. Finally, the first hook is actually the correct one. —Politizer /_contribs 23:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Also, do you have information on how many people (on average) compete in it each year? The fact that the same guy has won it eight times makes it sound like a rinky-dink road race (which I assume it isn't, but still, we should make sure). —Politizer /_contribs 23:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
        • I tweaked the wording to put the hook right in it, found three relevant articles to link to it, and added information about the number of finishers. Hope it's enough! Oh, and I updated which hook should be struck out . . . "between" is correct for two, but "among" is correct for three or more.--otherlleft (talk) 03:13, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
          • You are correct that "between" is for two and "among" for three or more (take it from me, a grammar stickler who spent several years working as a writing tutor), but keep in mind...when you make a transition in a triathlon, you are only making a transition between two events at once (ie, biking to running), not among multiple events at the same time (ie, I think it's physically impossible to transition "among" three different events simultaneously, unless you have multiple bodies)—there are seven transitions that are each between two events, not one transition that is *"among" seven events. In fact, as a rule of thumb, the word "transition" almost always takes "between," and almost never takes "among," not just in this context but in most English contexts where you'll ever see it. ... I'll take a look at the article in a moment; I just wanted to clear up this between/among thing. —Politizer /_contribs 03:31, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
            • • I just checked it out and, while your edits are a major improvement and I was happy to see that the article has been de-orphaned, I noticed that there is no source for the statement that SOS is the "only" triathlon to have this many transitions. That's a fairly serious issue, so you'll have to either suggest a new hook or dig up a source for this statement. —Politizer /_contribs 03:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

(indent) You win on the grammar, I submit to the master! Regarding the transitions: the article claims that it is unusual, not that it is the only one to do so, because even though I suspect this is the case, I have not yet found such a source. I don't recall if a prior version did use the word "only," but I believe it was removed early on if it was ever there. If you think a further rewording is in order, I'm open to suggestions.--otherlleft (talk) 03:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that physician William Beierwaltes, a pioneer in nuclear medicine, was one of five attendees at the first course for doctors offered by the Atomic Energy Commission on the medical use of radioisotopes? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Rear Admiral Minoru Ōta, commander of the Imperial Japanese Navy at the Battle of Okinawa, had earlier been earmarked to command Japanese landing forces at the Battle of Midway? <self-nom> --MChew (talk) 15:45, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• No source for the claim that he commanded the IJN at Okinawa. Gatoclass (talk) 13:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

added additional references. --MChew (talk) 15:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. Gatoclass (talk) 00:05, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the intricate rococo decoration of the Grand Church of the Winter Palace was recreated in papier-mâché after a fire destroyed most of the original interiors of the Winter Palace in 1837? -- another article by User:Giano II and User:Muscovite99, recently moved to main space; nom by Testing times (talk) 15:39, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The hook is not cited in the article. --Bruce1ee 10:14, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • It is covered by the Hermitage website, already cited elsewhere. I have added another citation for you. -- Testing times (talk) 11:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Thank you. Length, date and hook ref verified. --Bruce1ee 12:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the walls of Peter the Great's first "palace" in the nascent St Petersburg, a 60 m (650 sq ft) log cabin, were painted to resemble brickwork? -- yet another article by User:Giano II; further material added and nom by Testing times (talk) 15:39, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Length and date good, offline hook refs accepted in good faith. --Bruce1ee 12:08, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Both of those references are online at Google book, actually - "unconvincingly painted to resemble brick, forty feet long, eighteen feet wide" and "Originally the interior wooden walls were painted in red oil to immitate brick". -- Testing times (talk) 12:48, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that, along with his brother, Henry Pitkin produced the first American-designed pocket watches (pictured) with machine-made parts? new article, self nom by --Doug Coldwell 14:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Verified. —Politizer /_contribs 14:33, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that "There's No One As Irish As Barack O'Bama" is a spoof folk song first performed in a pub in the Irish village from where the President-elect of the United States claims that his great-great-great grandfather came? --- new article (self nom)--Scott MacDonald (talk) 11:36, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Article has been listed at AfD. Also, looking at the edit history, I'm pretty sure that "There's No One As Irish As Barack O'Bama" is the new article and I have made it bold, rather than in italics. — Bellhalla (talk) 12:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Yes, I bolded it, but the scarequotes and bold got confuded. It is on afd, but the nomination is pretty frivolous, it will be kept.--Scott MacDonald (talk) 14:56, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
      • NB AFD closed as speedy/snowball keep.--Scott MacDonald (talk) 18:34, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
        • 218 character hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 07:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1... that "There's No One As Irish As Barack O'Bama" is a folk song first performed in the village from where Barack Obama claims his great-great-great grandfather came? --- new article (self nom)----Scott MacDonald (talk) 13:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Looks good. However, there should be a footnote in the image caption "here in Ollie Hayes pub, the song was first performed", which appears to be the article text from which the DYK hook is derived. -- Suntag ☼ 12:52, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Look again, the hook is in the text, and clearly referenced from the Irish Times. The image caption merely repeats it.--Scott MacDonald (talk) 14:06, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Verified! Ecoleetage (talk) 17:35, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the gentle, affectionate nature and agreeable temperament of the Lilacine Amazon has given it a favorable reputation as a companion parrot? — new article, self-nominated by krimpet✽ 03:12, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Ref given in article doesn't establish "reputation," it's just one guy saying they have a good temperament. Will need to suggest an alternate hook or find a better ref. —Politizer /_contribs 03:31, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that German entrepreneur, race driver and yacht skipper Udo Schütz won the 1000 km Nürburgring in 1967, the Targa Florio in 1969, and the Admiral's Cup in 1993? -- self-nom by  Matthead  Discuß   00:59, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the top of the 51-storey Central Park tower (pictured) in Perth, Western Australia sways about 30 cm (12 in) in the wind? -- self-nom de-stubbed (5x) article. - Mark 01:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Date, expansion and ref verified. Changed "up to 30cm" to "about", considering the interviewee himself was fairly vague in "about a third of a metre". —97198 (talk) 05:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Ichabod and Me, a 1961–1962 CBS sitcom starring Robert Sterling and George Chandler, bombed failed miserably despite its placement between the Top 15 Red Skelton and Garry Moore programs?--self- nom, new article, using Google Book reference Billy Hathorn (talk) 04:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Can we have a better phrasing than "bombed"? That might not make much sense to some people. - Mark 13:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I have to guess what that means. Non-native speakers (like me ^.-) don't understand slangs that well. Chamal 14:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

From the definition of bombed, I added "fail miserably" in place of "bombed". However, it looks like most of the article is sourced to the anyone-can-edit IMDB and I don't see support for fail miserably.-- Suntag ☼ 16:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 9

• ... that French opera singer Gustave Huberdeau performed roles ranging from lead roles to character roles to mute roles? new article self nom.Nrswanson (talk) 19:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
  • What's a mute role? A role in which the opera singer doesn't sing? Maybe it's a common term among people who know about opera, but I'm just checking, because it confuses me a bit. —Politizer /_contribs 22:20, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Correct. It's a silent part and a "mute role" is a common term to people familiar with opera.Nrswanson (talk) 22:49, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Another thing...first of all, I'm not clear what the source for this statement is in the article. (There is a footnote in a later sentence, but it's not clear if that is the actual source.) Secondly, now that I think of it, "character roles" is also confusing to me (at least, the way it's linking to "character actor")..."charactor actor" seems to me to describe a career trend or pattern, whereas "character role" seems to describe a single gig (again, I may be wrong, if it's special opera jargon); if that is the case, it may be better to leave that one out and just say "ranging from lead roles to mute roles." ... on a side note, I did a minor copyedit to remove "everything" from the hook. —Politizer /_contribs 23:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Well "character roles" are a specific kind of part that charcter actors specialize in. Usually a performer will specialize in either character roles or lead roles. In Huberdeau's case he was unusual because he was evenly divided between the two throughout his career. He could be described as both a character actor and a lead actor. Both would apply to him. That's what makes the hook interesting. Also, the source two sentence later is the cite for the hook. It just seemed redundant to put a cite after every individual sentence.Nrswanson (talk) 23:47, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the rare West Virginia land snail Triodopsis platysayoides is protected by a fence and likes rock features? -- Article expanded fivefold by User:Invertzoo and myself. Snek01 (talk) 20:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

They all have their own little fence that they carry around with them? Fence and rock really don't need linking either. Yomangani 12:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Humans built the fence solely to protect the snails (perhaps unusual?) and the rock comment is that the snails typically are observed within 1 meter of a rock feature. Apparently they are obsessed with the rock feature for some unknown reason. It is interesting that these snails have three teeth. to the Nom - In summary, please supply an alternate DYK hook. -- Suntag ☼ 21:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ALT: ...that the rare West Virginia land snail Triodopsis platysayoides is protected also by a fence at area larger than 4 km² to protect its habitat? --Snek01 (talk) 10:11, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The article doesn't make it clear whether there is still only one known group, but a hook that doesn't imply that the snail has its own fence would be better: ...that in area x the Flat-spired three-toothed snail habitat is protected by a 4 km² fence? Yomangani 12:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Explanation: There are few localities, with known distribution of this species, protected by fence and it is altogether the mentioned area extent. (And the species also lives in areas without fence of course.) Feel free to improve English in my DYK hook sentences. --Snek01 (talk) 19:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I can fix the hook's wording, but currently the fence thing isn't even sourced in the article. —Politizer /_contribs 22:23, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Is this any better? It's well-sourced anyway:

.. that the very rare Flat-spired three-toothed snail eats pack rat feces, lichens, mushrooms and crickets? Invertzoo (talk) 23:06, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

It's better as far as sourcing, but not as interesting. I'll take a look at the article and see if there's any better material. —Politizer /_contribs 23:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Original hook is referenced but not as an inline reference. Generally all facts (except of description) in article are also in those two USFWS public domain references.

• ALT: ...that the rare West Virginia land snail Flat-spired three-toothed snail has despite its name only one tooth in its aperture? --Snek01 (talk) 00:30, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Mike Davis envisioned making recreational boats available on the Hudson River in New York City after seeing how boats could be rented in Istanbul and rowed on the Bosporus? -- new article, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 03:20, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

"his goal of" isn't required in that hook. Yomangani 12:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Words were removed, as suggested. Alansohn (talk) 00:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

The facts and article length are verified. I'm curious what other reviewers think, however, about notability here. It's hard for me to establish how big of a deal Davis' boat organization actually was; both of the NYT sources given seem to present the whole thing as more of a feel-good story than anything else, and don't say a whole lot about how much impact the organization had. The sources do mention that there have been a bunch of spinoff boat organizations...but does that alone establish notability? —Politizer /_contribs 23:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that early childhood educator Barbara T. Bowman co-founded Chicago's Erikson Institute with the support of philanthropist Irving Harris? (new; self nom) --Rosiestep (talk) 02:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Before clicking and reading about it, I thought "Erikson Institute" is a kindergarten with a "grown-up" name. :) --76.64.77.189 (talk) 14:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• alt1 ... that early childhood educator Barbara T. Bowman co-founded the Erikson Institute, a graduate school in child development, with the support of philanthropist Irving Harris? --Rosiestep (talk) 00:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Verify alt1. I was about to suggest the same alternate hook before I noticed you had already done so. —Politizer /_contribs 23:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Hedley Howarth helped lead New Zealand to its first ever test cricket win on the Indian subcontinent with a five-wicket bag against India in 1969? -- fivefold expansion, self-nom by Alansohn (talk) 00:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that protests by Rev. Abraham Woods about the 1990 PGA Championship at Shoal Creek led the club to admit its first black member and to new PGA rules requiring open membership policies at host clubs? -- new article, self nom by Alansohn (talk) 22:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Did the protests lead to Shoal Creek admitting the new PGA rules, or did they lead to the new rules themselves. If the latter, a "to" is required after the "and". Yomangani 12:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

These were two separate results, and the wording was changed, as suggested. Alansohn (talk) 00:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

202-character hook, and that's even before adding "country club" (I think it should read "Shoal Creek country club" rather than just "Shoal Creek"). Will have to shorten it. —Politizer /_contribs 23:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Adding the word "to" put me just over the limit. The article's name is Shoal Creek, and I tweaked the wording to add the word "club" to clarify what Shoal Creek is. That it was the site of a golf tournament should also add appropriate context. The wikilink should allow anyone to confirm the nature of the club. I am willing to consider any proposed rewording. Alansohn (talk) 03:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that protests by Rev. Abraham Woods about the 1990 PGA Championship at the Shoal Creek country club led the club to admit its first black member? Hooky enough by itself without the need for the PGA rule change. Yomangani 12:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I added "country club" to the alt hook. —Politizer /_contribs 14:58, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

ALT2... that protests by Rev. Abraham Woods about the 1990 PGA Championship at the Shoal Creek country club led to the admission of the club's first black member? Passive, but puts some distance between the two "club"s (as "its" would be ambiguous). Yomangani 18:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Verified. I think ALT1 is the best wording (although, of course, I'm the one who suggested it). —Politizer /_contribs 23:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that prehistoric ridgeway trails, though often steep, were usually the firmest and safest cart tracks before the advent of paved roads in western Europe? -- new article self-nom by JB Piggin (talk) 21:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
  • No page numbers given in footnotes (most of which are offline books), so who knows where the facts came from. Article also is tagged for needing cleanup/restructuring. —Politizer /_contribs 23:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that during the 1994 Royal Rumble match, both Bret Hart and Lex Lugar's feet hit the floor at the exact same time, making it the first and only time that two wrestlers were declared winners? Expanded and self nom by iMatthew 21:26, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• This says that you created the article but the DYK nom says you expanded the article. Also, a reasonable amount of the 1,500 DYK characters should come from reliable sources that are independent of the topic. List of Royal Rumble match winners appears to be sourced to wwe.com. For another DYK mentioning Bret Hart, see How did this become a DYK?? on the DYK talk page. -- Suntag ☼ 03:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I expanded it further in a sandbox of mine, then moved it to mainspace. iMatthew 11:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• This is a tricky one to decide on, but I think the fact that most of the sources are from WWE (including the source for the hook) makes it difficult to establish notability. I'm not going to reject it outright because others might disagree with this, but I think we should be careful before promoting this article. (If anyone watching does decide that the provenance of the sources isn't a problem, then you can verify this easily; the fact checks out in a WWE source given.) —Politizer /_contribs 22:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... the Julia Butler Hansen Bridge (pictured), which carries Washington State Route 409, was opened in August 1939 by Franklin D. Roosevelt, via telegraph from the White House? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by ~~ ComputerGuy 19:48, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• It seems to me that this hook is more about the first link in it than the state route. And how do you open something remotely via telegraph? That isn't really explained in the article or the citation given. - Mark 15:28, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that decommissioning in Northern Ireland was a process in the Northern Ireland peace process? new article, self nom. Bsimmons666 (talk) 18:56, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
  • I looked through the article trying to find material for a more interesting hook, and I noticed that the "breakthrough" by which the IRA finally decided to decommission hardly gets any coverage at all. We get the sentence "On 7 August 2001, the IRA agreed on a method of destroying its arsenal," but no indication of why that breakthrough was happening (given that "the peace process was on the brink of collapse" before that, I would imagine something big must have changed to allow this breakthrough). The article mentions one source's speculation that the September 11 attacks played a role in the breakthrough, but the breakthrough apparently took place over a month before the attacks. —Politizer /_contribs 17:43, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that one-third of India's population (roughly equivalent to the entire population of the United States) lives below the poverty line? article by Gppande (talk · contribs) nomination by Parthian Scribe 18:18, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• The article makes this statement then has no inline citation for it. It then goes on to say that over 40% live under the "new" poverty line, and that somewhere around a quarter live below the "national" poverty line. There's a lot of ambiguity there and I can't see where the one third figure comes from. - Mark 14:14, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• The difference between the second and third figures is based on the standard, it seems...40% are below what the international community deems poverty, while 20-27% (different figures given in the footnote) are below what the Indian government deems as poverty (on a side note, footnote #43—the poverty report from the Planning Commission of India—should really have a page number in it). But you are correct about the first number, I still don't see where one-third came from. And honestly, is this the most interesting hook? I feel like this is the sort of thing that most readers, even if they don't technically "know" already, will not be surprised by. There has to be something more eye-catching here. —Politizer /_contribs 15:02, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• A more pressing concern is that it's hard to tell how much of this article is new. The section Terrorism is directly copied from Terrorism in India, leading me to believe that similar copying is going on in other parts of the article as well. —Politizer /_contribs 15:02, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that at one time, the Sneath Glass Company produced almost 90 percent of the glassware used in consumer refrigerators in the United States? article by TwoScars (talk · contribs) nomination by Parthian Scribe 18:08, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Is there an inline citation for this? --Rosiestep (talk) 07:00, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif was sentenced in 1918 to execution by firing squad by the commander of the French occupying forces in Istanbul due to an article he wrote in a newspaper to condemn the occupation, but pardoned later? (Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by CeeGee (talk) 12:13, 9 November 2008 (UTC))

• 236 character hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:15, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif was sentenced to execution by firing squad for an article he wrote condemning the 1918 French occupation, but pardoned later? - may be possible to mahe it even snappier Victuallers (talk) 17:47, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• ALT2... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif was sentenced to execution by firing squad by the French forces due to an article he wrote condemning the occupation of Istanbul in 1918, but pardoned later? - reworded without changing the meaning CeeGee (talk) 06:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

• Hook is still too convoluted, and it makes it unclear whether he was saved from execution or was posthumously pardoned. An alternate hook might help, but I haven't been able to think of one yet. —Politizer /_contribs 17:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• More seriously, the article relies entirely on a single source, and that source isn't in English. —Politizer /_contribs 17:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• The article seems neutral, so I'm not bothered by the single source. Also, there is some English source material at Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL. -- Suntag ☼ 21:41, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ALT3 ... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif witnessed first hand the decaying corpses of persecuted Christians in his home town of Diyarbakır in July 1915? -- Suntag ☼ 21:41, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• ALT4... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif was sentenced to execution by firing squad by the French forces due to an article he wrote condemning the occupation of Istanbul in 1918, but pardoned soon? - Added reference in English and reworded hook. CeeGee (talk) 19:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• ALT5... that the Turkish poet Süleyman Nazif was sentenced to execution by firing squad for a political article he wrote, but was pardoned before the execution took place? (I think this removes some of the ambiguity that was bothering me about the way the pardon was expressed in the earlier hooks.) —Politizer /_contribs 22:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the SS Mahratta ran aground on the Goodwin Sands in 1939, less than a mile from the site the wreck of a previous ship named Mahratta? Article created and self-nom by Mjroots (talk) 09:03, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Too short, only about 1150 chars. Gatoclass (talk) 15:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

::*Nom withdrawn, unable to expand further with sources available to me. Mjroots (talk) 10:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• There are plenty of online sources. See Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL. And try News, book, scholar. -- Suntag ☼ 17:55, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Article expanded a bit more. If it's not long enough now then it won't make it to DYK. Mjroots (talk) 19:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Long enough now, references and hook verified. I'm also suggesting an alternate hook to further accentuate the strangeness of the wreck:

ALT1: ...that when the SS Mahratta ran aground on the Goodwin Sands in 1939, it settled on top of a ship that had sunk thirty years earlier and was also named Mahratta? —Politizer /_contribs 22:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

ALT2: that the SS Mahratta ran aground on the Goodwin Sands in 1939, precisely on top of the wreck of a previous ship named Mahratta? —Politizer /_contribs 22:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the American television series Veronica Mars was renewed for a third season mainly because of the critical acclaim for previous seasons, despite low ratings? -- new article self-nom by Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 08:44, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Is this that unusual? 30 Rock and Arrested Development both also got third seasons with the same combination of minimal ratings and critical adulation. Daniel Case (talk) 14:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Daniel Case is right. The article is excellent, but you need to suggest a different hook. —Politizer /_contribs 22:27, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• • Alt hook: ... that when the American television series Veronica Mars was cancelled after its third season, creator Rob Thomas shot a trailer with the titular character working in the FBI?
  • Alt hook: ... that the third season of the American television series Veronica Mars ranked 138 out of the 142 regular primetime programs, averaging 2.5 million viewers per episode?
    • Thanks for the note Politizer. Um, regarding the first alternate hook, I'm not really sure if it is really about the third season, so I threw in a second one. Are they better? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 22:45, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
      • The second alt hook is just stats, which aren't very interesting (and 138 isn't a very good rank!); the first alt hook, to me, seems a little confusing; I could clean it up, but as you pointed out, it's not really about the third season. Do you have any wacky or eye-catching facts sitting around in the article somewhere? —Politizer /_contribs 23:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Alt hook: ... that when the American television series Veronica Mars was cancelled after its third season, fans sent more than 10,000 Mars bars to The CW, hoping that the network would reverse its decision and renew the series?
    • I think this one is much more interesting. Better? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 00:54, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that Larry Krystkowiak is the only Milwaukee Bucks head coach to have spent his entire coaching career with the Bucks? new article, self-nom. -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 03:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Only 1133 characters of prose. —97198 (talk) 11:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be an omit for that if the article can't have anymore sentences put into it? -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 03:15, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

All you need is a few more sentences (maybe four or five). Isn't there any more info that can be included? Since it's a list, just getting over the 1500 character margin will do. Chamal 14:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

To be truthfully honest, I cannot think of ANYTHING that I can add into the lead. :( -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 00:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

It's had two days and it's still short, I don't see anyone nursing it up to size, so might as well close out the nomination. —Politizer /_contribs 22:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that the members of Montreal-based electronic music duo Beast were both born in France and perform all of their songs in English? -- Article expanded fivefold and self-nom by Marchije (talk) 07:04, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Cited source implies that the band sings in English but doesn't say so explicitly. Daniel Case (talk) 14:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. How about shortening it to simply: ...that the members of Montreal-based electronic music duo Beast were both born in France? --Marchije (talk) 17:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Not a very eye-catching hook... how about:

(alt:) ...that the members of Montreal-based electronic music duo Beast first met while working for a video game company? (I don't want to say "while making music for a video game," because the ref given, ref #1, doesn't make that explicit). —Politizer /_contribs 22:18, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• ... that 18th century outlaw Oleksa Dovbush is known as the Ukrainian Robin Hood? --article by User:Aleksandr Grigoryev, nom by _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 23:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Article is technically around 2000 characters, but it looks awfully short and bare to me. Also there is only one inline citation. The first two ELs given should be incorporated into the text as multiple citations, and there is probably more information you can get from those ELs to beef up the article as well. —Politizer /_contribs 03:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Expiring noms

Articles created/expanded on November 8

• ... that Werner Krieglstein, an internationally recognised philosopher whose works have come up in many symposiums, is the founder of a neo-Nietzschean philosophical school called Transcendental Perspectivism? -- new article by User:Dkriegls; Nom by Alexnia (talk) 18:37, 10 November 2008 (UTC) (last try for today)

205 character hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 07:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

oh come on your don't tell me your declining my hook because it's over 5 chars?Alexnia (talk) 10:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

(alt1) ... that Werner Krieglstein, an internationally recognised philosopher, is the founder of a neo-Nietzschean philosophical school called Transcendental Perspectivism? Shorter. Yomangani 12:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

No source for the main hook statement. BTW "internationally recognized philosopher" is redundant, there wouldn't be an article about him if he wasn't notable, all that needs to be said is that he's the founder of a school of philosophy. Gatoclass (talk) 13:41, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

He doesn't have to be internationally recognized to be notable but you could drop the subclause without any damage to the hook. Yomangani 18:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for making it shorter Alexnia (talk) 13:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• (alt2) ... that philosopher Werner Krieglstein is the founder of a neo-Nietzschean school of philosophy called Transcendental Perspectivism? (subclause removed from alt1). --Rosiestep (talk) 19:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Rosiestep's hook is the best, but the fact (in all three hooks) has no citation in the article. —Politizer /_contribs 22:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

(moved from Nov 9) —Politizer /_contribs 22:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

See also

• User:AlexNewArtBot/GoodSearchResult – This is an automated list of promising new articles generated by AlexNewArtBot (talk · contribs · logs).

• Misplaced Pages Did you know