Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 05:47, 18 November 2008

Thank-you again, for being so helpful. I was speaking of certain Port Huron residents seeming to feel threatened. I can't find that Wiki Michigan project you mentioned, could you send me a link? Mphmi (talk) 16:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank-you, Stan. I don't know if I'm posting this in the right place. This site is very confusing to me. Anyway, about my link-- I don't think Zygnoda will be happy no matter what I put for a description.

Misplaced Pages is clearly not against commercial content. I mean, there's a page for everything under the sun. A Myspace page, for example. Look at Frankenmuth's page -- in the External Links there, there's links for Tiffany's Food and Spirits, Bavarian Inn, frankenmuth-hotels.com -- all commercial links, but no one's complaining about them. Even so-called non-profit businesses still make money, so really, what is this about? Why do people around here seem to feel so threatened by my site? (I could give other examples.) ~Jenny —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mphmi (talk • contribs) 14:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Plainly, your deletion of the Arts and Crafts Movement was wrong. You also have a different perspective as to which potters are not notable. Would suggest that the individual potteries be put into a different category, thereby not 'cluttering' the internal links (See alsos), while maintaining these. You may not realize, for example, the import of Pewabic Pottery. Your deletion was at the very least parochial and ill-advised. 7&6=thirteen 18:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello 7&6=thirteen. It is ironic that you suggest I was parochial as to avoid this was a significant part of the reason for my edit. I editted what was becoming a very long list of individuals' personal favourites. Your accusation of being parochial is plainly wrong when you consider the edit left links to pottery related to Palestine, China, Japan, Native American, England, Greece, Iran and Holland. This lack of a parochial outlook is further supported as I am writing this from Colombia. I removed the Arts and Crafts Movement link as that article on has only a small inclusion on pottery, and that is limited to the USA. Also the import of Pweabic Pottery is very low. It is ony of relevance to the development of Studio Pottery in the USA, which from a global perspective is of such small importance as to be irrelevant. So rather than me being parochial it is you which show a parochial and narrow perspective.

You have been doing yeoperson work

at the Pewabic Pottery article and for that I award you the seldom coveted Thumbs Up Award. Might I suggest that you begin something to remove the red ink from Mary Chase Perry Stratton? The first decision, one that has held me in check is to decide what version of her name to use, or, put another way, whether to include the Stratton part or not. Life is good. Carptrash 19:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC) PS if you write something/anything on your user page then you will no longer appear in red either, and this is, I feel, a good thing.

Thank you for the recognition.

I have been doing this as a mitzvah, and expected none.

I would suggest that we start an entirely new article concerning Mary Chase Perry Stratton. There is lots of information on her and her glazes, just in the materials that are linked to this article. FWIW, I think that her marriage to the architect (Stratton) who designed the Pewabic building would deserve mention. Her partner in craft should also be mentioned in the Pewabic article, as well as in hers. She was really an important figure, and it would be a good complement to the article on Pewabic Pottery, which I believe still needs lots of work. Feel free to help out. 7&6=thirteen 19:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC) Stan

Guardian Building

Stan, FYI, here is a link to the Detroit News article on the history of the Guardian Building. It does detail the ownership of the building during that time. Michigan Consolidated was the largest tenant and then became the owner in 1975.Thomas Paine1776 00:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Issues

My style at wikipedia is pretty much to back off problems and allow the other to have his/her way. In the article on Architectural sculpture, for example I said, fine, have it your way even though I do this . However I will send a note to this other person and see where it gets us. I am a fairly long term wikipedian (I even got a bit of press here ) and this sort of nah nah nahing is why I've cut way back. I just sort of got engaged with you because I liked what you were doing and wanted to be a part of it. So, we'll see. Anyway, thanks for asking and I will see what I can do. Probably not much before Sunday because tomorrow is our burning permit day. Which means not much to you but a lot to me. Carptrash (talk) 05:22, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Good a.m. - I did leave a note with the tea pot fellow and am curious to see what happens next. However I should mention early in the process that my moves are not always linear - in chess I might be a knight - so we'll see. You are perhaps more direct, a castle perhaps? Oh yes, don't forget to sign your messages. A major wikipedia dictum. Carptrash (talk) 15:13, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the follow-up with Teapot George.

I think that the link I put the latest link (Brunk article from the Marshall Fredericks museum) I put in the Stratton and Pewabic article might be a good basis for us to put together a somwhat longer rendition on Statton's article, and could be used as the basis for a Caulkins piece. Good stuff. Thanks.

I'll remember to sign.

7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:19, 17 November 2007 (UTC) Stan

And one more sort of Amy Vanderbilt Etiquette thing, mostly folks post on each others discussion page and not the user page. It's sort of like . . . ........... parking on the driveway as opposed to on the lawn. It's not important to me, but others might freak out and in any case, knowledge in power and you should be at least aware of these things so that you're making informer decisions. And I really am not (or at least think I'm not) quite the fussy curmudgeon that this makes me sound like. Life is good. Carptrash (talk) 15:37, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes

The picture is from a 1900 publication explaining the Boer War to Americans. these are Boers, looking for a hapless Englishman to shoot (from Carps History of All Things) Carptrash (talk) 23:01, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

PS not sure what Belle Isle phot you are referring to? more Carptrash (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 23:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the movie tip, so here is a wikitip in return. When you mention something such as Breaker Morant try putting brackets around it and see what pops up. My wife is a major Bryan Brown fan, so, yes, I've seen it. Oh yes, what are the two better trial movies? Carptrash (talk) 03:55, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps more than you wanted to know, but . . ....

My wife will not watch (with only a few exceptions, one being true stories) movies in which there is a lot of tension or in which people are mean to each other. This cuts out a lot of viewing possibilities for together watching, but I recently scored a stack of library throwaways and have been watching them late at night. One, A Murder of Crows was two nights ago and you came right to mind. Last night it was Amistad, which is more trial though less "former trial lawyer". Anyway, we'd like to add My Cousin Vinny as another good trial flic - of a very different mode than the ones previously mentioned.

I did some time in the Labor trenches, so it's interesting to learn the direction that you are in. If you go to IWW you'll find my (former) Red Card there, and following that decade I was an unemployment advocate in Michigan for a bit. Not exactly The Law, but closeish. And so it goes. Now I have a septic tank to dig out, which, if not more fun that wikkiiing, more compelling in other ways. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 16:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

the meaning of existence

Well certainly (yet another word for "my opinion") the heyday of the IWW was a century ago (carp-time), but they are still chugging along. The place I worked, The Peoples Wherehouse in Ann Arbor, Michigan wanted, or at least the workers wanted, a union that allowed them a carte blanche in contracts, negotiations etc, so as a result we became the largest active IWW shop at that time. No longer in existence, I do believe, though arguing about the meaning of existence is another direction that we could take. Now back to digging the septic tank. 75.91.169.120 (talk) 18:22, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Whoooops. Turned out that I was not logged on. No surprise, I'm sure (yet another term for "My opinion"), but this is Carptrash (talk) 18:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

My mama taught me how to share

especially other folks stuff, but I am not sure what two year old bourbon barrel conditioned barley wine is exactly, or how i'd share it from New Mexico. Dixon is a wine growing (well grape growing, wine producing) area, so I am used to home grown, as it were. This stuff of yours sounds different. You mention "expensive", I drink Brandon's wine because it's free. He and I share air time on KLDK and well as being in the Pathetics together (see picture in KLDK article). Meanwhile it's off to Santa Fe for a day at Cool Shades. I am currently employed at a kiosk in a Mall there and the Big Season is almost upon us. Carptrash (talk) 13:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I spent 30 odd years (some of them very odd indeed) in Ypsilanti and Ann Arbor much of it learning about the architecture of the area. I acquired a fair bit of knowledge about the buildings and the folks who created them. I know, for example, more about the life and work of Corrado Parducci than anyone else that I have ever met, or even learned about for that matter. And other stuff too. Getting a ticket to Metro is a great idea but I need to tell you that the only way that I do that these days is when someone else buys the ticket. Lydia, for example, got me one from Cleveland to Albuquerque recently when I drove her car for her from Santa Fe to Cleveland, but that's a story better told over the wine or beer or even Brandon's home grown red. Meanwhile I passed through a Sobriety Check Point in the Gorge tonight that made we feel good that I'd not tippled a few earlier. Life is good. Einar the eeeeeeeek Carptrash (talk) 04:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Welcome!

Welcome!

Hello, 7&6=thirteen, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! bd2412 T 01:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Now you have me doing it.

I'm whacking away at that list too. it is interesting (to me) to note how many of the movies on the first list were made between 1957 and 1967. Why do you suppose that was? Why was Hollywood focusing it's best anf brightest (some of it quite dark) on the Judicial system then. It brings to mind the Johnny Nash song, There are more questions than answers - at least to me. eeeeek aka Carptrash (talk) 17:25, 21 November 2007 (UTC) PS thanks for Vinnie, even if he is in red. Which is odd because I think that there was an Oscar involved.

PS Don't forget to sign your comments on the Discussion pageof AoaM with 4 of these ~ guys(or gals if you prefer). Carptrash (talk) 17:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I see that there is a category Courtroom dramas whch might need/want to be looked at and perhaps expanded. Too bad it excludes Vinny. Carptrash (talk) 17:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC) Just like work, huh?

I noticed, or think I noticed

that here you signed something "Stan" instead of Lucky 13. I read The Bounty Trilogy as a youth and remember that the courtroom scenes were particularly tense because I'd developed definate ideas about who should be hanged and who set free and that my opinions did not always match those of the Royal Navy. In fact, rarely do. My older brother, Ragnar () attended the Royal Naval School (see Autobiography of a Carp, Chapter 3) and was pulled out when my mother discovered that they featured public cannings of miscreants - not a bad description of Ragnar in his younger years. I sort of took over the role in Chapter 6 or so. Carptrash (talk) 19:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Here is one thing that you are risking

at Trial movies. Much of the article is your opinion. It is possible that we can slide under the wikipolice radar for a bit, but at some point some 12/22 year old with the rule book committed to memory will show up and proceed to slash and burn. it is what got me to stop contributing very much. But now you have weaseled me with the carrot to get back to it. However the stick is lurking out there. So think about the English (language) issue and M (film) and I'll chip away at what I know to be red flag words —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carptrash (talk • contribs) 16:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

There also needs to be a better introduction to the article before leaping into the 10 Best List. Check this out for some ideas. Western (genre). Carptrash (talk) 16:25, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

"and talk about the merits of individual movies"

That just becomes more opinion. We need to find sources and allow them to do the talking. Meanwhile a list of Ttrial movies with links to other articles is a good next step. Articles are judged (and executed sometimes) by the number of links to other articles. Let's do it. Carptrash (talk) 18:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC) PS I'm winterinzing the homestead today - so will be on and off.

Re Anatomy of a Murder, and other things

Greetings Stan and thanks for getting in touch with me. I read many of the messages left for you here and I'm sure in agreement with Carptrash with some of the things he mentions.

Personally, I think you are a super writer and are doing good work. I think the learning curve on Wikepedia is a long one, especially if one does not read many of the guidelines before mushing on. I've been slapped around many a times, and have learned the hard way. Generally, I delete NPOV and info that clearly do not belong in an article.

I leave original work alone, or look for references someone neglected to include. Carptrash is correct: someone will come along and place a nasty tag on an article with original work and no reference.

Now for Anatomy of a Murder: The critical reception first para I guess is fine. Mostly, I've seen over and over, and now do it as well, critical reception written like the article I edited yesterday. See: One of the Hollywood Ten. Yes, way too simplistic, but it works.

The plot section: I'm going to move a few paras because the plot should be a general blow by blow account of what happens in the film. I'll label the new sections: Legal aspects & Comparisons to book. The plot section proper probably needs some work.

Well, that's it. Cheers, Luigibob (talk) 22:00, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

American cinema barnstar

		American Cinema Barnstar
		I Luigibob present you with this American Cinema Barnstar for all of the hard work you've done on the Anatomy of a Murder article--your contribution to film articles is much appreciated! Luigibob

Hey Stan: How are ya doing'. Super job on adding references to the "Legal aspects" section of the article. I was worried some tag happy Wikepidian would place a tag on the section. Now I think we're cool. I think the section is the best part of the article. It provides something to think about when watching the film. It seems you have a legal background. In college I took six units of US constitutional law. I consider both courses my favs while in college, and the prof, now a good friend of mine, is a "fire and brimstone" kind of fellow. Warm regards Stan, Luigibob 16:16, 4 December 2007 (UTC)Talk to Luigibob!

think that a caption

is a good idea. I figured that you might want to add something, but I was not sure what. I'll set it up for you to just go to the edit mode and remove Caption and add what you will. It's sort of funny, but I have two images that I've been planning to add to that article - which is why I had it bookmarked and saw you show up. We must be in parallel dimentions or something. Carptrash (talk) 21:06, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Checked the vandalism on Pottery

Thanks for the tip - I reverted back to the last pre-vandalized version of Pottery, and added a warning to Kownudl's talk page. If you're interested, you can check out the article on handling vandalism and this article on how to revert several versions at once. I found them very helpful. Jackollie (talk) 01:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

There are two kinds of people in the world.

Those that divide everything into two groups and those who do not. There are two kinds of wikipedians - Inclusionists and deletionists. I am an inclusionist. If I like something and figure that we'd have a better article by adding it, then I do so. And, as you've discovered, some deletionist will come along and . . . . . . . . . . . ....... So my thought is Go For It. Carptrash (talk) 18:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I have articles about a variety of obscure sculptors that folks pretty much leave alone because it's not worth the time and/or effort to locate them, much less deal with them. But someday someone will discover the number of unpublished manuscripts by one Einar Einarsson Kvaran that are part of the sources that anything could happen. Caspar Buberl is one of my favorites and you'll not find (opinion) a better anything about him anywhere. Carptrash (talk) 20:26, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

When you get back

to your curator at the MFSM would you ask if he/she/they still have a record of the fact that I loaned them a book of Fredericks sculpture at the U of M Administration building? It was a scrap book, presented by the architects to the U of M pressident and I'd had autographed by Fredericks. Might give you a bit more clout. Carptrash (talk) 21:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

A couple of notes

from the Carptrash's Big Book of Etiquette, if you'd like me to visit a page, such as Irving Jacob Reuter, then make it a link Irving Jacob Reuter so that I can do it in the easiest way. The page look good, I am surprised that the house did not get a mention in Eckert's The Buildings of Michigan. The second note is that thoughts such as your's are typically presented on another wikipedians discussion page rather than on his/her User Page. Not a big thing with me, but some others get weird and territorial about it. Also, if somethng is posted on my user page I don't get that You've got Messages note in orange (or whatever) that I so love. Carptrash 16:57, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the review link. Do you have pictures of those tiles? Sound as if they'd make a nice addition it several articles. Sendin me links is fine I actually DO care. What I'm not thrilled about getting is messages from the Other Side telling us that if we all get up at 3 am and beat a drum for an hour or two that World Peace will result. What you sent is interesting in my world. Carptrash 20:02, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to say

without seeing a picture of the building, but I think i get the idea. Okay, what we have here (opinion) is more British hi-jacking of the American - I mean United Statesian perspective. (Another whole can of worms for another day) Tudorbethan architecture is not a term used in America. Here is is called Tudor Revival or sometimes Jacobian Something. However someone has taken that link and redirected it to Tudorbethan architecture. I'll poke around and see what can be done. In the meanwhile I'll suggest that you call your place Tudor Revival for now and let's se what can be done. Carptrash 17:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Well it might be too late to 'let them argue it out." I've contacted an administrator and requested that We (Americans) get the Tudor Revival page if the limey's don't want it. Your building is definately what I'd call Tudor Revival, so it might be an early link. Meanwhile I need to knock together a creditable stub so that if I get the page cleared to use, that there will be something to put up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carptrash (talk • contribs) 18:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, so after we get this thing dealt with we can go back to the Pottery issue if you like. I suspect that you have enough wikiexperiance to pick-and-choose your fights and your path through the wikimine fields. Meanwhile, would you glance at Paul Williams (architect), go to the Work section and see if you think that the work vernacular is the right one. Also the article sugests that Williams did modern versions of Tudor Revival, when in fact (opinion) he was just doing Tudor Revival - which is a modern version of . ...... real Tudor. Make sense? Carptrash 19:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I've done a fair amount

of Matilda Dodge research and know, which many don't, that she was the first woman Lt. Gov. of Michigan. Also was never accepted intp Grosse Pt. society because she started out as Dodge's secratary. Corrado Parducci did a lot of work for her, at Meadow Brook Hall, the Wilson Theatre (Music Hall) and on her mausoleum in Woodlawn Cemetery (Detroit, Michigan) In fact she is listed in red at that entry, just waiting for you to do an article on her.. I did a Parducci slide show at Meadow Brook years ago and unfortunately, gave them some of my best pictures. Oh well. Carptrash (talk) 21:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC) Meanwhile my real focus today is on my septic tank which . . ...... you probably don't want to know, and if you do then your are sicker than I'd imagined.

Harrisville, Michigan

Article should reference both D&M and LSR, as you suggest. Take a look at the current language. Bigturtle (talk) 16:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about the link not working

You just put one instead of two sets of around it. As for the logo, just because a company folds it does not mean that someone else does not own the copyright to it. However I'll try and get it into the article and we'll go from there. I just got rid of a bunch of Michigan Train books that had belonged to my late father-in-law and that I donated to the Embudo valley Library book sale. Our library here is not a public one in that it gets no tax support, so all funds come from donations and grants and what not. Anyway, they are probably gone now, though if they did not sell will be in the storage are that as a Library BoD member I have access to. hmmmmmmmm Carptrash (talk) 17:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Sturgeon Point Light Station references need work

Hi, I don't see anything obviously wrong with the references in the article. It is more densely footnoted than I would like, but some editors interpret verifiability guidelines on wikipedia to mean that every sentence or even every clause of every sentence needs to be footnoted. Is there perhaps a more specific question about the references I might be able to help with? older ≠ wiser 14:38, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

That is just a way to re-use the same source without repeating the entire entry each time. Each letter links to a different point in the article where the source is referenced. It works OK for single pages on web sites or short print articles. For multiple references to separate pages within a book, I prefer to place the author's name and the page number in a note, and place the bibliographic details for the book in a separate section. However, several styles for citing sources are acceptable for use in Misplaced Pages articles. Which style is most appropriate may vary according to the subject and the available source material. older ≠ wiser 16:46, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand. There are many styles that are acceptable that I don't particularly like, but I've learned it is usually not worth making too much of a fuss over. older ≠ wiser 17:03, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Notability of author and ISBN numbers

I had no idea you had added the author and the book with ISBN number, so there is no reason to take offense, because my edit was made in good faith. It's extremely common on the English Misplaced Pages for people to promote themselves, their books, their organizations, their political views, and so on, by inserting them into articles. If the author is notable, then the book and the book's ISBN number can be listed in the author's Misplaced Pages article (like the Judith Guest example). I think Harmony Weekend is notable, because it's an annual event that involves the entire city. I'd be happy to provide references. Why not simply provide an appropriate reference for this author and leave out the ISBN number, which really doesn't belong in an article about Harrisville? Best, MoodyGroove (talk) 01:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)MoodyGroove

Placing the ISBN number in the footnote would be better (I try to include them if the reference is a book, for example) but don't be surprised if another editor comes along at some point in the future and questions the author's notability again. This is especially common when a stubby article like Harrisville gets developed and moves toward B status. No one likes to see their content get deleted or challenged, but the process is healthy for the project, and the end result is usually a higher quality article. What we are experiencing here is nowhere near an edit war, but rather, exactly the kind of communication expected between editors who share a common goal of writing a good article that is good for the project. The best thing to do if you care about this content is to substantiate it with a verifiable source. I'll even help you find one, if you would like. Best, MoodyGroove (talk) 14:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)MoodyGroove

You can always click on my user page and then click "E-mail this user" in the toolbox to the left. Is it a URL to the article that you intended on emailing? Please feel free and I will format the reference. Best, MoodyGroove (talk) 18:12, 9 December 2007 (UTC)MoodyGroove

Long Lake (Alpena, Michigan)

No problem. Most of my editing is polishing/tidying articles where I can. Ravenna1961 (talk) 04:18, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Grayling, Michigan

No problem. I think I fixed the image link, and two text page links. I also learned I have been mistaken for over 30 years about the name of central in Dallas, TX, I75 versus US75. Amazing what you learn on wikipedia :) JackSchmidt (talk) 22:07, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Otsego County, Michigan

I didn't find a good link for all the business loops grouped together, and the business loops are given very little attention on Interstate 75 in Michigan (but enough I could use as a model). There is a longer list article List of Business Routes of the Interstate Highway System#Interstate 75 that was also useful. I ended up just linking the image and the local article, Interstate 75 Business (Gaylord, Michigan). Feel free to change the link labels, or add back in an I-75 link. JackSchmidt (talk) 19:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Pewabic Pottery

Tagging this as dubious is legitimate as ot os a very big claim that is only supported by a single reference from someone who is clearly biased as he is the Curator on Pewabic Pottery history. It either needs valid references or it should be removed. Please try to improve the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.154.226 (talk) 20:33, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Hopefully this part is addressed now. I tried not to change any content or tone of the article other than the one "finest" phrase. I moved most of the opening into the main article, which should hopefully make it easier to add more material. The article sounds very interesting, and it can definitely be expanded (perhaps onto the biography pages as well). Let me know if you want any explanation of what I did, or help continuing with it. JackSchmidt (talk) 01:42, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Northern Michigan

I made two edits so you could see which you prefer. The first one only works in FireFox (and lots of other less common browsers, but not IE7). It is very easy to tweak, though. You just add <div style="-moz-column-count:4; column-count:4;"> to the top and </div> to the bottom, where you can replace "4" (both times) with how many columns you want. 4 happened to be even, but 3 might be a better choice.

The other way, the way that works in IE7 and FireFox (and lots but not all less common browsers) is the {{multicol}} template. The only problem with it is you have to explicitly say where the columns break, so adding new items to the list is a pain in the butt. I suspect you rarely have to add cities, so I hope it was the right choice. It was the one I left on the article. Adjusting column lengths and widths just means moving, adding, or deleting those {{multicol-break}} tags.

Help:List has some information on doing this stuff, but leaves out the first solution both solutions. Math tends to use the first solution with the <div>, but probably because there are some commonly used math websites that worked better on FireFox for many years, and so everyone has FireFox.

At any rate the first one makes life easier for editors, but the second one makes life better for viewers. I went with the second, since I hope the list of cities will not change much. JackSchmidt (talk) 17:38, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I just noticed that Help:List is not very helpful. Template:multicol documents the second solution, and the first solution is just folklore in the math section of wikipedia. You can see it in action in Template:Reflist but this is hard to read. JackSchmidt (talk) 17:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy holidays Stan, the man

Hey, I trust you've been well. I'm sorry for not getting back to you sooner since you last left a message. As they say, "my bad." To respond: I'll try to work on the "trial movies" article in my SANDBOX and see what you think. Also, my local library has a copy of the film. I think I'll watch ANATOMY once more this week. As for the CATEGORY:color films, I don't think one exists. I'll let you know when I edit trial movies for your looksee. The article really is needed (so glad you started it) and without TAGS. Best to you Stan-- ♦ Luigibob ♦ 21:00, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Spelling

No worries on the spelling. I'm using a live spellcheck program to catch recent typos, so don't think I'm specifically following YOU around ;-) Tanthalas39 (talk) 03:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Indent

To indent you type a colon (:) or a series of colons (:::) at the beginning of your comments. Look at the code for this reply and you'll see how it's done.

First reply

Second reply

Second reply, second graph

Third reply

Usual practice on the talk pages is to indent one more level (one more colon) for each reply, until about four or five levels, then go back to the left side of the page. But by all means, don't let it stop you from commenting on the talk page. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 13:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. I hope you understand that I'm not looking for a fight or trying to make an enemy of you. I can see that you're doing good work here and hope you'll continue. I just had doubts about that link. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 14:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand. I'm not particularly sensitive about editing. Especially when it turns out the editor got it right, and I got it wrong.

In my work I am like the supreme court. As Justice Henry Jackson once said: "We are not final because we are infallible; we are infallible because we are final."

Of course, in Wiki one is never final. And I was mistaken, as BKConrad graciously pointed out. So keep up the good work, as this was not taken as a personal attack. BTW, apparently you've been working hard on the Toledo War. You (and whomever) have done a very nice job!

Happy new year to you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 17:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)Stan

For no particular reason

Hope you have a good day! Nengscoz416 (talk) 02:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Limitation on use of signs

It may have, but then the article would easily have been prone to signitis, where signs are everywhere there's a mention of a route name. And there are many in both articles.

About a year and a half ago we just decided to limit it to exit lists and infoboxes (those things on the right.)

Thanks! —Rob (talk) 17:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, there's a link to current standards. WP:USRD/MOS. They change a lot, but not enough to merit too much concern. —Rob (talk) 21:29, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Interstate article intros

I've noticed that you've been editing some articles lately, and you might wonder why I've reverted some of those edits. It's already sufficient to start an article with '''Interstate 496''', abbreviated as '''I-496''' to get Interstate 496, abbreviated as I-496. Changing the intro so that it's a link to the same page being viewed, a) takes more characters, b) only bolds it anyway and c) removes the full name (which is needed) showing only an abbreviation. Also, interstates are never normally called US I-96 as US 96 and I-96 are two different highways, in two different states! (US 96 is in Texas, I-96 is in Michigan). If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me anytime. I'm glad to be of help! Imzadi1979 (talk) 22:43, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

from eeeek

It's nice to hear from you, particularly in these . . ...... troubled times. Here is the deal. This admin. is telling me that every piece of sculpture has to be written up as Fair Use and/or I'm not sure what and I am not up to it. I have hundreds of images on wikipedia and am not about to find them all and write 'em up one by one. About a week ago a friend of mine died, perhaps by his own doing upon getting a bad medical diagnosis. That's sort of how I'm feeling now. I'd rather do it myself. feel free to check out the copyright links that are in the postings above where you mailed me. I did and there is stuff about copyright expiring when the artist dies - pretty much all mine are dead, but . . ... I don't know. I am trying to get my book Shadowing Parducci ready to self publish by the end of January and have more hundreds of pictures to scan and photoshop and all and am not up for this at all. But it is good to hear from you and feel free to contact the fellow who is getting ready to delete my pictures and offer him a second opinion. Life is supposed to be interesting. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 02:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

hmmmmmmm. Well there is no one harassing me, this fellow is trying his best, we just have different opinions as to what that means. If you go to my talk pages and go up a posting or two (from the bottom) you'll find a series of links to various copyright information. I suggest that you look over it before launching anything. It's interesting stuff - legal writing, and it's hard for me to get to the bottom of it. There seem to be a lot of "what ifs" involved and this editor has decided that all sculpture is copyrighted and thus can not be used. It might cause aminor riot in the wiki sculpture world, but, if he is correct then, so be it. But I do not think that he is right. Carptrash (talk) 02:28, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

So here is the US copyright law.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#120

Seems as if Sec. 106 is a place to begin.

There is more on Sec. 113

Sec. 107 is the Fair Use section and probably covers what i do, but that means writing out 500 or more separate explanations, and that I am not going to do.

The fact that all my sculptors are dead might come to bear (bare?) but do their heirs automatically get rights to the work?

What else can I do? What would a intellectual rights attorney want/need to know for an 8 minute diagnosis?

Architectural stuff before 1990 seems to be okay, so I might have pulled Lee Lawrie out a bit prematurely. Oh well.

In any case, thanks a lot for your interest and concern. Einar Carptrash (talk) 03:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Michigan's Thumb

I have never heard of the Sarnia to Alpena boat race, but then again I don't live in Sarnia or Alpena. Thanks for working on the thumb, it looks so much better than it did before. I have just started to work on a festival page for the thumb. I'm sorry I can't help you about that boat race, but do you know where M-25 starts in Port Huron? Check out the thumb talk page for my latest discussion.Cgord (talk) 17:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again for working on the thumb and helping me put this region back on the map. I have just started working on the Southeast Michigan page, but I don't think it will ever be as good as Northern Michigan & the Thumb. With the new changes, the thumb wiki page is the first to come up on google when searching the thumb of Michigan. Thanks so much for all the work you ave done, keep up the good work.Cgord (talk) 01:56, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I've visited the Clark Library website, and they've got something on everyting. Thanks for telling me.Cgord (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey, do you know of any list of Michigan universities to help me on the thumb? Also, thanks for the link to Info Michigan, it is very usefull for history of cities and towns. Lets keep working on Flint/Tri Cities, Its getting a lot better.Cgord (talk) 23:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Do you know how to make tables smaller, like the thumb large population table? Something the size of the population tables on the U.P. article would be great.Cgord (talk) 23:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

If you haven't noticed, I've been busy and havent had much time to work on wikipedia. Thanks for your message, I will check out the Michigan Lighthouses, you did a great job on Port Sanilac Light. I keep going to the Northern Michigan artical, but its so good, I can't seem to add anything to it. I've got to go, the Red Wings are playing! Cgord (talk) 00:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Edit Summaries

Hi there. When editing an article on Misplaced Pages there is a small field labeled "Edit summary" under the main edit-box. It looks like this:

The text written here will appear on the Recent changes page, in the page revision history, on the diff page, and in the watchlists of users who are watching that article. See m:Help:Edit summary for full information on this feature.

Filling in the edit summary field greatly helps your fellow contributors in understanding what you changed, so please always fill in the edit summary field. If you are adding a section, please do not just keep the previous section's header in the Edit summary field - please fill in your new section's name instead. Thank you.

Pere Marquette

How do you figure the Pere Marquette Railway being a current common carrier? My understanding is that it stopped existing when it passed to the C&O in 1947. Best, Mackensen (talk) 14:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Interurbans

Quick note here. I'm adding all the defunct railway companies I can find in Meints' book to List of Michigan railroads and I've added a separate section for interurbans to try and manage things. Mackensen (talk) 17:40, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Muskegon and Ludington

How's that look? Unfortunately, there isn't a special graphic for business loops (except the special green Interstate shields), but I have a trick to make one up. Just use ]<br>] as needed. Remember that 3-digit US highway shields are supposed to be displayed at 25px instead of 20px, so the business plate would also need to be wider to look right. Any more questions, just ask. I'm always happy to help. Imzadi1979 (talk) 21:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Muskegon and Ludington

How's that look? Unfortunately, there isn't a special graphic for business loops (except the special green Interstate shields), but I have a trick to make one up. Just use ]<br>] as needed. Remember that 3-digit US highway shields are supposed to be displayed at 25px instead of 20px, so the business plate would also need to be wider to look right. Any more questions, just ask. I'm always happy to help. Imzadi1979 (talk) 21:36, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and for the County-Designated Highways, the A-## highways, the graphic used is ]. Imzadi1979 (talk) 21:36, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

You are a veritable fount of information on this roads and signs and anything else on this topic.

Ordinarily, all I do is edit/copy from another page, which has the virtue that I won't be making new mistakes (and the vice that I will be reproducing old errors, if somebody else did them). Essentially I am doing this in a brainless/mechanical way, without understanding what I am doing.

Your new images looked great, by the way. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)Stan

You're quite welcome. Imzadi1979 (talk) 22:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

List of museums

I share your concern about the museum lists. Michigan is not the only place with a problem. Please stop in at Talk:List of museums in the United States and add your two-cents-worth (or more). --Orlady (talk) 03:13, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Yankee Air Museum

I'm new at this, so I'll ask forgiveness in advance for my errors.

I believe that The Yankee Air Museum in Belleville is the National Headquarters and the Wurstsmith and Saginaw are separate divisions (and separate museums). I would think they would each deserve their own separate mentions, and cross link to each other? I guess what led to my initial confusion was the Michigan Museums page listed Yankee Air Museum as Oscoda, but the click through clearly showed the Willow run entity. If the "see also" had been Yankee Air Force Wurtsmith Division, rather than Oscoda, I might not have so quickly assumed it was a cut and paste editing typo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annebethmi (talk • contribs) 17:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Henry Stephens (lumberman)

A tag has been placed on Henry Stephens (lumberman) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Scarian 19:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

It is nice to hear from you.

Actually, I do not consider either the Buhl or the Wrigley to be art deco. Deco (opinion) is not about structure - both are constructed like many other deco buildings, but about surface ornamentation, and neither uses that. I see that the smash-and-grab folks are at your Stevens article. it is so intersted, to me, that any bit of current pop culture fluff can rate an article but when you start going back in time all of a sudden the nay-sayers start popping up. When I first got on the www in the 1990s in noticed that it was great for current things, and moved forward nicely, but when you tried going back it became less friendly. That seems to have not changed. Yes, I pulled out my Fredericks pictures, and probably more. The copyright issue is complicated, I got Parducci's son to give me carte blanche on his work, mostly because I'm writing a book about his work, but in contacting the State of Tennessee about the copyrights to the Alvin York statue they own (picture now gone) all I got was "We're not saying we do own it and we're not saying we don't." Life can get tangeled, but only when I hang on to the strings. Let go of them and they do not seem to be such a problem. I looked for a place to vote on the Steven's article, but could not find one. Usually the DELETE NOW stamps have aplace to go. Did I miss it? Life is good. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 16:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Upper Peninsula

I looked at the link before I reverted the deletion of Suicide Hill and couldn't understand why it was removed. That's why I referred to it as vandalism. It's obviously noteworthy. I'm sure you could make it into a stand alone article. Take a look at this link.... http://info.detnews.com/redesign/history/story/historytemplate.cfm?id=149

I'll look at Tawas Point Light next chance I get.Asher196 (talk) 04:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Of course

i had to add something about the Murphy statue, so I did. This is a great article and I can't add more than i did. I am not a fan of footnoting outside links because they frequently disappear in a month or two and that's really annoying. ah well. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 05:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Here is a slight insight into me. I am not a finisher and polisher. And if Frank M needed anything it was that and my eye is not attuned to that sort of detail. I'm a broad strokes kind of a guy. But one of my claims is that I can tie a statue into anything and with Murph it was easy, since it was already there. I question the bit about Marshall Fredericks "helping" set the statue on the pedistal. Fredericks was one of those folks, who, when they see a spot light, even on someone else, can not help but step into the center of focus. like the Rev. Al Sharpton, but different. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 21:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

"albeit on a 24 foot high penis" Now that pulls a chain. I wrote a section in the phallus article about phallic architecture and buildings that look like penises and it was removed as being original research. As if 98% of all humanity could not tell what, say the Nebraska Capitol building looks like. I am also frequently chastised for calling articles "mine," so i completely understand the feeling. Carptrash (talk) 22:00, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

So my Phallic Architecture still exists? Cool, but then that will get us arguing about the meaning of exiatance, and what chance would I have? Don't worry about your opinion too much. if you have a reference somewhere near that's probably good enough. Meanwhile I just volunteered to take a friend to CA of knee surgery, his wife just came down with theflu, so again I get someone else to pay for my travelling. It does not get much better. Leave tomorrow at sunrise. Einar akaCarptrash (talk) 02:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I've been informed that part of my duties involve wplking Howard 10 minutes every hour. The EVERY HOUR was stressed. I;ll know soon if that means 24 or not. i want to do some arch sculpt stuff in Sacramento, but we'll see. Thanks for the thoughts. Einar akaCarptrash (talk) 03:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Leland, Michigan

I added the settlement infobox and some basic information. Feel free to add as much information to the box as you want. It's rather time consuming to start from scratch, but I'll add more info when I get a chance.Asher196 (talk) 17:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

South Manitou Island Light

I just created this article. If you get a chance, take a look and work your magic on it. Thanks!----Asher196 (talk) 14:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

From me Luigi

I just awantd to say hi! I hope you are enjoying being a Wikipedian. I am. As for me, I got to my library, and OMG, they have many Argentinian films. See: User:Luigibob/ForeignFilms. So I was able to add info to the articles. My best -- ♦ Luigibob ♦ 14:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your comments. I've seen what you have added to many articles. Good job. You are helping so much. As for me, I just stick to films. Oh well, I guess that is my expertise. I should add to political science articles since that is my background. You take care sir. Luigibob (talk) 16:12, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Did you see the squabble in the article (Anatomy of a Murder). Amazing...over such a trivial matter. That's why I never want to get involved bringing an article that I've been involved in to any status over B. And if it happens, I will not be involved. See my talk page for the full discussion and end. By the way, I suggest you change "inter alia" to "among other things." Food for thought. Best- your wiki-friend Luigibob (talk) 04:13, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I'll do the change. Trust me. Some Wikipedian will freak soon. I know what it means since I took two con laws classes, as I mentioned, but the layman reading an encyclopedia will not. Luigibob (talk) 04:19, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Funny how people are telling me, I guess, and you indirectly, the diffs between footnotes, refs, and a bibliography. I have 200 units in higher ed college creds, you probably have 450. These egos...whatever...I reached out to a few Wikipedians, however. On another matter, I met someone who is so cool. He sent me a DVD of a film I remember so well, but is no longer available. The FILM: The Brotherhood of the Bell. My best -- Luigibob (talk) 06:46, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Catholic Diocese of Gaylord

You said: I notice that you have removed the statement and reference that Charlevoix, Michigan (and 30 other locales) is part of the Gaylord diocese of the Catholic Church. Your systematic removal of the accurate relationship of the geographic organization of the Catholic church in Michigan form a bunch of websites under the theory that "it has nothing to do with geography" is wrong-headed. If you narrowly construe the word "geography", you were still removing a pertinent, true and useful fact. It would have been far better (IMHO), if you had expended all this destructive energy in a constructive manner, i.e., moving the thought or reforming it into a message that would be of use to the readers while leaving the information there in one form or another. Of course, maybe it is that you have a different agenda.

My reply: I'd be curious to know what _your_ agenda is. You can't possibly tell me that every town and county in Misplaced Pages, even articles that are 3 paragraphs long, should have a reference to what Catholic Diocese it is a part of. It was not "destructive energy" at all - it was an attempt to keep the articles to an even and relevant level of detail. I'm a member of the Sierra Club. Does that mean that I should edit the articles for every town and county in Northern Michigan to say "Traverse City is considered to be part of the Traverse Group chapter of the Sierra Club."? No, of course not. If you want to add a section to these towns and counties that discusses their religious affiliations, I would have no problem with that. However, if you do that, you might want to consider including other religions as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.216.101.146 (talk) 11:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey my friend and trail films, hey why not

My friend, let me work with you on some films you mentiponed before, and a sectionen

Happy First Day of Spring!

Just wishing you a wonderful First Day of Spring {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}! ~~~~

I suggest

that you email Thom Brunk, tell him we are working on the changes and ask him how his book on th Masonic Temple is going. 03:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

CMU library external link

Hey there. I couldn't help but notice you added an external link about the chronology of Michigan lighthouses to a large number of seemingly relevant pages. You may want to familiarize yourself with WP:EL, specifically point #1 at WP:ELNO. All of the relevant information from your page could be incorporated into the articles, so the external link isn't warranted. If you have the time, you should make those additions. —Zeagler (talk) 15:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, one or more of the external links you added to the page Marquette, Michigan‎ do not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Misplaced Pages is not a collection of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Since Misplaced Pages uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

This is your only warning.
The next time you make a personal attack, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. --Hu12 (talk) 23:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

You have been Blocked for personal attacks and harassment. If you wish to make useful contributions, you are welcome to come back after the block expires.--Hu12 (talk) 23:35, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I have been wrongfully blocked from editing

Hu12‎ and Barek engaged in a deliberate and willful concerted and personal attack on me. They engaged in wikistalking and sock puppetry. When I protested their actions, they deleted my complaints from their talk pages. They deleted (without cause) a whole lot of work I had put into articles. This block is now in retaliation for my complaints. This is an abuse of editorial responsibility, and is part of a larger problem with Hu12, who apparently has issues and abuses his power on a regular basis. You need to put a stop on this abuse of power, position and irresponsibility. I accuse. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Stan

I have unblocked you. While I think Hu12 was a little hasty in blocking you, you also jumped to conclusions regarding his actions. I know it can be difficult when editors go and systematically undo your edits, but it is best to begin by assuming good faith and simply asking for a better explanation before making accusations. older ≠ wiser 01:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Harbor Beach

Thanks for the compliment. I'm sure some people won't like the format, but... --HB Edit (talk) 20:10, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Your message on my page

Let me get this out in the open first: I support your editing and think that the response to your edits was overblown and out of proportion to what was needed. You have done a lot of wonderful work in the areas relating to Michigan. With that said, you were not helping your case by alluding to Naziesque behavior and calling people "goons". That doesn't go over well on the WP:ANI pages. I really was trying to help you by pointing out what Hu12 did was wrong and such but the extreme language you used on the board turned a lot of people off to your cause. If you succinctly pointed out what happened instead of launching into a very wordy tirade, there probably would have been a different ending to the whole encounter. Short, sweet, and factual accounts usually get action. Long rants with lots of colorful language towards other users and administrators does not. That's it. I hope to see you around Misplaced Pages for a long time! spryde | talk 11:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Charity Island Light

Despite our prior disagreement, I am glad to see that you're still contributing. You are a valuable asset to Misplaced Pages.

On the article, I resequenced based on the WP:MOS, and removed some external links that already exist in the "Notes" section. As you commented on my talk page, I'm hoping I didn't cause an edit conflict for you. The only remaining change I was going to make was to change "Bibliography and further reading" to "Further reading" per WP:GTL#Further_reading, but I'll hold off in case you're still working on the article. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Just an FYI that I replied to you on my talk page. Incidentally, so you know why I have an interest in Michigan - that's where I grew up and attended college, and still have family scattered there and in Indiana. I now live in Washington state, but go back periodically to visit. I have an interest in some of the lighthouse articles, but I prefer working with WP:SHIPS, so will likely not touch many more lighthouse articles than those you've already seen me edit. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:00, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment, although I think you give me too much credit. But, how about a trade of contribution effort. I've been wanting to create the Marquette Harbor Light article, and your reference sources would be invaluable. If you could provide a pile of sources for me on that one, I'll go ahead and see if I can expand on Charlevoix South Pier Light Station, and work some of the sources into in-text citations. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Lighthouses

I left a brief note at WP:AN/I regarding your complaint about Hu12 (talk · contribs). I didn't look much into the wikistalking thing, but I did note that he shouldn't use administrative rollback in content disputes. I'd also recommend that you don't get overheated in discussions and start using inflammatory terms.

That said, I was looking through your talk page and your contributions (oops, now I'm wikistalking) and I noticed you've been doing a lot of work on lighthouses, historic sites, and museums. Here's a useful link on an inventory of historic light stations in Michigan. I don't know if you've already used that site, but it could prove useful in filling in some of the fields in {{Infobox Lighthouse}}. I do a fair amount of work within Misplaced Pages:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places when I'm not being a heavy-handed admin, so you're welcome to check that project out. (Actually, I don't like to think of myself as being a heavy-handed admin, but I've been struggling with Calpis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) recently.) --Elkman 16:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Dear Elkman:

Thanks for the information. So the record is clear, I don't willy-nilly go around making accusations, so you are in no danger. Nor do I think that you are being a "heavy-headed' admin. I've been using that particular inventory fairly often -- something I do is put in too many external links (which do have all -- or most -- of the pertinent information that you can find on line). The strategy is (I think anyway) to give readers what they need, even if we don't have it, and to give future editors at least a direction, so that they can make the article bigger, and eventually incorporate them in as line citations).

FWIW, I don't know anything about infoboxes, and I've been recruiting people (asher196 for example) to help me out, and he graciously has done that repeatedly. The quid pro quo is that he's recruited me to edit some articles. Of course, any sources that can help the quality of the product are greatly appreciated by me. So far that compartmentalization seems to work well.

Feel free to write anytime. Best regards. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC) Stan

I was pretty much joking about being a heavy-handed admin -- in fact, I've tended to think of myself as being a heavy-handed admin in situations before this. As far as infoboxes go, if you're interested in learning them, one way to learn them is to edit articles that already have {{Infobox Lighthouse}}, like Split Rock Light (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). --Elkman 17:10, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I answered some of your questions at my talk page. (You might want to watchlist it.) --Elkman 15:18, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Glad to see you're back

Now try not to keep me too busy.....Asher196 (talk) 04:53, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Huron Lightship

The image is indeed correct. From The Terry Pepper site: "The Huron then continued on under her own power to the Twelfth District Headquarters in Milwaukee, where she arrived on June 9th. Sported a bright red Hull with the word "RELIEF" painted on her hull sides, indicative of the purpose for which she was originally commissioned."....Asher196 (talk) 16:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll post that to the Huron Lightship talk page. Thank again. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 17:29, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Stan

Tawas Point Light image

I'm drugged up right now, that's keeping me going. You can change the image back if you want. I just thought it looked better zoomed in. I don't think the article is long enough to warrant two images. It won't hurt my feelings if you go back to the other image....Asher196 (talk) 03:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Charlton Heston

I saw your question on the Charlton Heston talk page. Check out this link if you haven't seen it yet. http://blog.mlive.com/bctimes/2008/04/charlton_heston_left_heartfelt.html Asher196 (talk) 02:54, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I put the link in as a reference in St. Helen, Michigan Thanks. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC) Stan

Granite Island Light

Check this out. http://www.nps.gov/history/maritime/light/granite.htm Asher196 (talk) 18:38, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

St. Helena Island Light

Thanks for your hard work on this article. Bigturtle (talk) 23:46, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Round Island Light (Michigan)

Small changes and additions made, with story rearranged chronologically. 8,000+ bytes. Bigturtle (talk) 22:13, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Lewis lamp

Just wondering if you had any sources that provide more detail on Lewis lamps. I created the article about two weeks ago based on info from Terry Pepper and one other site; but if you have additional sources that could be used to expand the article a bit, that would be great.

I ran into one problem with the article; the two sources that I used have different information about some of the specifics on how Winslow Lewis acquired the contracts (so I left out a good portion of that detail, as I was uncertain as to which source was actually correct). I'm hoping that if additional sources can be found, they may help shed some light on the discrepancies between the other two. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I was pleased when those links went blue, but didn't think much about it. I've not given it any thought. I will in the next few days. Maybe its on line somewhere. Kind of old and obscure nautical trivia, I think. BTW, I trust Terry Pepper (although he does have typos, as he has done most of that work himself and without staff or support, and it is a huge data base -- I send him corrections and suggestions regularly, and we now occasionally do correspond -- bottom line, it is easy and inevitable to make mistakes. Of course, there are also limits to his knowledge. His website throws up his hands because he didn't know how to get to Charity Island Light, and I've corrected that in Wiki and let him know. Anyway, my main point is that if he doesn't have it, then it will be hard to find, because by and large he is a very good workman and researcher. I could look in my 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica (I think that's on line, too, but I have a hardback set). I'll get back to you. I've got a meeting to go to. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC) Stan

American Museum of Magic

My pleasure! Im a fan of anything 'magic' related. I think your article is interesting + wld be happy to help expand on it if you can provide further info +/or additional sources. Thanks! --15ParkRow (talk) 14:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The image they provided you must be public domain. Here is the Misplaced Pages policy:

"Misplaced Pages does not accept images that are licensed for "non-commercial" use, licensed only to Misplaced Pages, for which permission is required for reuse, or that do not permit derivative works to be created. There are several reasons for this policy, but the short version is that Misplaced Pages's mission is to provide free content and having images encumbered by restrictive licensing schemes runs counter to that mission" Asher196 (talk) 21:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry to say this isn't going to be easy. You have to get the copyright holders permission to release this image to the public domain. This article explains exactly what to do and provides a sample letter you can use to get permission. This is the legal way to do this. The other way to do it is to upload the image to Misplaced Pages and claim to be the author of the image, and release it yourself. I don't recommend that.Asher196 (talk) 02:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Portage Lift Bridge

Of course the Lift Bridge is important to Keeweenaw County. So is the Mackinaw Bridge, for that matter. Let's look at the paragraph in question:

The Portage Lift Bridge crosses Portage Lake, connecting Hancock and Houghton, Michigan, by crossing over Portage Lake, which is part of the river and canal system that crosses the entire peninsula. The Portage Lift Bridge is the world's heaviest and widest double-decked vertical lift bridge. Its center span "lifts" to provide 100 feet (30 m) of clearance for ships. Since rail traffic was discontinued in the Keweenaw, the lower deck is used to accommodate snowmobile traffic in the winter. This is the only land based link between the north and south section of the Keweenaw peninsula, and is crucial.

The paragraph creates the mistaken impression on a reader unfamiliar with the area that it is within Keeweenaw County. Of the whole thing, for reasons known only to the author of the paragraph, only the final sentence is in any way pertinent to Keeweenaw County - and it is only pertinent if the lift bridge should be out of commission for a significant period. If that is a serious possibility, the paragraph fails to mention it. In my opinion it does not belong in an article on Keeweenaw County, so I decline your nomination. Plazak (talk) 19:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Bois Blanc Light

I rewrote the article. Take a look and see what you think.Asher196 (talk) 03:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Oscoda-Wurtsmith

I did not intend to remove so much of the material. It was some sort of bug in the rollback function that I used. I only meant to remove the portion that I removed in my second edit. I removed it because I felt that it was written in a way that seemed to promote the Community Center's activities and that one particular event (the one in May) seemed very unnotable. I do see how including the presence of the Community Center can be notable, I just don't think that was the best way to do it. I'll go ahead and re-insert the presence of the community center. -Drdisque (talk) 02:18, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Granite Island

If there was an info box on the lighthouse (not sure there was) it's gone now. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC) Stan

I'm not sure what to do here. The article is about the island, and as such, has an island infobox. Should I add another infobox for the lighthouse?Asher196 (talk) 01:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back

Glad to see you're back. I hope you have your connection issues resolved....Asher196 (talk) 03:01, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Had to depend on my neighbor's satellite connection, which is at best intermittent. Much better here. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 03:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC) Stan

Round Island Light (Michigan)

There must be a mistake on the Terry Pepper site. He lists the focal plane as 53 feet and the tower as 57 feet. That can't be right. You may want to write him and ask. The focal plane can't be less than the tower height unless tower is sitting in a hole. NPS says the tower height is 53 feet. http://www.nps.gov/history/Maritime/light/roundmi.htm....Asher196 (talk) 23:29, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Asher:

I already did that concerning Whitefish Point Light. Part of this (I think) is that the tower is measured from the base to the top of the vent on the light. The focal height plane is measured from the center of the lens as against the mean high water mark. I wrote to him because I had the same reaction you did. Typically, one loses 2 1/2 to 4 feet from the distance form the middle of the light to the tip of the vent. The factor then is where the mean high water mark is.

I also wrote to him about Sturgeon Point Light -- he wrote to me and admitted he had it wrong.

As a result of all this correspondence, he completely redid the lighthouse tower height chart, put together a whole new spread sheet, and put in references for the source of each of his figures. He has a collection of original coast guard documents.

He also did a completely new chart, which is now the focal height plane chart. If you go to the Whitefish Point Light discussion, I put links to his two pages. As I said on the Whitefish Point discussion, he actually sent me photographs of the 1939 inventory, which listed the tower height, focal plane height, characteristics of the light, characteristics of the fog signal, and range of the light.

It would be possible (and I think Whitefish Point Light is an example), where the mean high water mark would overlap the base. This gives you some very odd looking numbers.

In the case of Round Island Light, he says the numbers from the cited Coast Guard chart happen to be identical. This is because you lose some at the top of the light, and you gain it back in the difference from the mean high water mark to the base. Take a look at the data yourself. Terry goes to considerable lengths in his discussion on the two charts to explain it. I think I understand it, and I've tried to articulate my understanding. I hope you agree.

Maybe this discussion should be put in the Round Island discussion. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC) Stan

I'm having a hard time visualizing how this happens, but I won't make an issue out of it, as I'm sure he knows what he is talking about. If you could send me a copy of that sketch, I would appreciate it.Asher196 (talk) 03:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Tower height vs. Focal Height

Thank you for the emails. The source of my confusion was the conflicting ways that tower height is reported in various web sources. In some places it apparently means from the ground to the ventilator ball. In others it means the height of the structure from the ground to the lens/service room. Now I'm wondering about the accuracy of many of these articles in that respect.Asher196 (talk) 15:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Me too. Terry Pepper just redid his two lists (tower and focal) in his data base, with references. He did it as a result of some of my questions (particularly about Sturgeon Point). I think he's trying to be consistent, and he has original documents, so he's closer than most of the other sources. Not to mention that he's spent 15 years compiling this stuff. Of course, we have the Coast Guard light lists (historical and Volume 7), and the Michigan government list and the National Park Service inventory. As I've been working through these articles, I've put all those links into them, so it is pretty straight forward to find the right link. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

I would also add that height from mean water mark is used by the Coast Guard in its light lists. And it is most relevant as a source for figures for triangulation by mariners (before GPS), who were trying to extrapolate their position from the sizes of the lighthouse(s) on (and from) the horizon. Ventilator balls could (and sometimes were) used, but mean water mark to focal plane is more visible over a much greater distance. I'm no Terry Pepper, but that's what the explanations in his data tables say (IMO) 7&6=thirteen (talk) 10:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

Question

Casual question: What is template reflist|2 and how is it different from reflist? Bigturtle (talk) 23:19, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

They're actually the same template: {{reflist}}. The |2 added to the end is a template variable that causes the references to be generated in two columns instead of one (note: on some browsers, even with the |2 added, the list still displays in a single column). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 23:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

See WP:CITE#Say where you found the material for more details....Asher196 (talk) 23:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I have little to add. I only put those in because some of these reference lists were (a) getting long; (b) contained relatively short lines; (c) seemed to look better in the context of the article (filling up voids). As I am no expert like Barek in the finer nuances of Wiki philosophy and policy, I can't give you a citation. The downside is that the type is smaller in the "footnotes." Ultimately, this seems to be a question of aesthetic and editorial judgment, and I would imagine that opinions can and will differ on the subject. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 10:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

Hoffmaster State Park

Sorry, I was trying to get rid of the Contents box, which seems to show up in an awkward place. I have undone the deletion of references. Jllm06 (talk) 02:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank You for your kindness, you took the time out to encourage me on my talk page... I am new to contributing and really do want to help. It makes me feel good when I know a subject and want to contribute.  :) --Crimson Red Fox (talk) 19:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Lighthouse infobox

In the coming days, I'm going to be creating a new Lighthouse infobox template, as I'm not happy with the current one. Some changes I want to make include allowing for user to create the text at the top of the infobox, instead of taking on the name of the article. Also, I want to create separate Tower height and Focal height headings instead of the current Height and Elevation. Are there any other changes you would like to see?....Asher196 (talk) 22:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

As a general rule - it's a bad idea to fragment the infobox usage. Better to tweak and adjust the current infobox rather than create a second one. Every time multiple infoboxes get created, there ends up being a project at some point down the road to merge them all together again. Why not skip the middle step and go straight to having a single unified version that allows more options than the current one, but is still compatible with the older usage of the infobox?

If you need a hand with the template syntax, let me know. I'm not an expert, but between another wiki on which I used to be an administrator plus my time here, I've created and modified several. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I brought my concerns to the talk page of the current Lighthouse template on May 23 and received no response. I didn't want to act unilaterally and edit a template that is used in hundreds of articles. Frankly, I'm afraid I would screw something up.Asher196 (talk) 02:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

If you look at one of the infoboxes that I've cobbled together, (Sturgeon Point Light?) maybe, I think I have everything that needs to be in there. You need original lens, current lens, original range, current range, NHR Number, station creation date (real useful if there have been multiple lights on a site), tower creation date, intensity, markings, shape, owner, operator (if different than owner), website (maybe?), characteristic, disposition of previous lens, location, active, open to public. And of course, there are those other things that show up in lighthouse info boxes, but I don't remember them, and don't know what they are (they're probably from overseas). State historic register status? I think that's all I can think of for now. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

You could also have a section for "Private Aid to Navigation" which one would put "Yes" or "No" on. This relates to USCG status on certain lights that are no longer officially "Coast Guard" lights. Sometimes the Coast Gurd talks about dates (e.g., May to Nov.) during which a light is operational. I think the Structure includes whether it is free standing etc., and is subject to interpretation. If you look at Volume 7 of the Coast Guard material, there may be other things they deem relevant. Hope that helps! 7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

Take a look at Harbor Beach Light. The range and characteristic entries (from USCG Vol. 7) have some interesting implications. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

Location could be more definitively displayed. Take a look at the things they put in their webpage at Michigan Lighthouse Conservancy, Harbor Beach Light. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 01:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

How to add user icons on my talk page

Thirteen,
How do I add user icons on my talk page? I've found the icons but don't know what to do to put them on my page. --Crimson Red Fox (talk) 23:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Fox: I don't know. But Barek will, and he monitors this page. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

Do you mean user boxes, or icons for navigating?

The easiest way to learn is to find another user page that has what you want, click "edit" and copy the code (don't hit save on their page - you want to view and copy, not accidentally change their page) - you can then go to your page and paste it there. Then you can edit it down to change it however you want.

There's actually a lot of variations in user-page design ... some can get some very complex coding (more than I usually like to get involved with myself). Your best bet is to find a relatively simple layout as a first version to emulate on your page ... then add and modify it as you learn more. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 02:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Using Sortable Tables

In order to add to the table, just copy another listing, past it by alphabetical listing, and put in the new information for a different museum. I am still adding listings for museums in Michigan, and later I will put in the regions. It's a big state! If I find an existing Wiki article that should include a museum, such as some museums that are part of a state park so the Wiki article is titled the park, I create a sub-heading for the museum and then link the article into the Category:Museums in Michigan. I'm trying to corral all the stray articles into the museums category. Any help is appreciated! I've worked on other states and I hope to work on all 50 states to make as complete listings as possible. Jllm06 (talk) 12:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Mid or Central Michigan

I did some major cleaning up of this page, so if you've got some time, check it out. Also, due to disputes between Southern Michigan and Central Michigan I made Southern Michigan a subregion of central Michigan. This way, both parties will get their way. Check it out and help me out if you get the chance. Cgord (talk) 16:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Harbor Beach Light

I'm afraid you have some old information about the light and fog signal. The light and fog signal are active all year. They are solar powered. This information came from the US Coast Guard and members of the Preservation Socity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HB Edit (talk • contribs) 23:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I understand where you have gotten your information. But the document you have is dated 2007. The information I received is current and was given to me by the people that are responsible and maintain the light.--HB Edit (talk) 01:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

It's important to note that the threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth. What that means is that the core policies of Misplaced Pages mandates that the articles contain verifiable information from reliable sources. If you have a reliable published source that states the alternate information, then please provide information about where it's published so we can make the change in the article. If not, then the central policies of Misplaced Pages mandate that we use what can be externally verified, even if it's currently outdated, until such a time that more accurate data is published. Using information gained from conversations, emailed questions, chat forums conversations, direct observation, etc is considered original research, and is not acceptable as a source for content within Misplaced Pages articles. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I noticed you changed the Harbor Beach Light as alternating red and white. Stand in front of the light some evening and you will see that the Light is not flashing white. I stopped off at the Coast Guard and they had an update to the light list, but didn't have hard copy of the document. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HB Edit (talk • contribs) 00:09, 26 July 2008 (UTC) --HB Edit (talk) 00:15, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Coast Guard web site

Apparently the USCG is changing their site. My old links don't work anymore, and I can't access the images. Hopefully this is fixed soon.Asher196 (talk) 02:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I tried accessing the images at the new URL, but they still are not available.Asher196 (talk) 02:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

FYI on U.S. Coast Guard list of Michigan lights

The Coast Guard has changed the URL on its list of Michigan lights. The URL must now end with ".asp" not "html." This is going to need to be changed on all those other articles. Hope this helps. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:37, 18 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

It seems that they are not done updating their site, as I was able to view the images of the Massachusetts lights.Asher196 (talk) 02:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Still not able to access the images from USCG. Have you had any luck?Asher196 (talk) 19:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Me neither. Very annoying. I get to the general page, but the photos don't go through. I presume this is a temporary interruption. If I find out there is an oening, I'll certainly let you know. 22:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

Trial movies

Great to hear from you...glad that your still contributiong to Wiki. Given your legal background you are a great addition to our Wiki goal -- to provide an excellent 💕. Actually, I drop your name often to explain the quality folks who are helping out.....that said, check out the article...I edited for NPOV and took out the tags.... My best -- ♦ Luigibob ♦ 16:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Cheboygan Crib Light

I responded to your kind invitation by doing some article rewriting. I hope you like the changes; as always you can revert any you like. Thanks as always. Bigturtle (talk) 04:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC) }BT: Thank you. I can always use the help. Especially good writing and editing. Sometimes I'm just trying to put in place a lot of sources and info, and I don't always have the perspective (or the time) to properly edit. Asher and I have done a lot of work on Waugoshance Light‎, and I'm sure it could benefit from your deft touch. The on line sources are all there, so have at it. Best to you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 04:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC) Stan

McGulpin Point Light

Please note that I have written a few words on the 1868 McGulpin Point Light; the subject deserves much more attention. I was happy to read a recent news story that indicated that this historic lighthouse near Mackinaw City, long inaccessible to the public, may become accessible soon. Bigturtle (talk) 02:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

BT: Nice beginning. You and Asher made big progress. I'll try to assist in the next couple of day, at least by putting in the external links. Best to you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC) Stan

"19" thanks to you for finding 19 external links for this article. Bigturtle (talk) 15:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

And I think they're pretty good links, too. . . . Thanks for starting the article. If you peruse the links, there's still a fair amount of info (to the limited extent it's known) about McGulpin('s) point. If somebody had some books, maybe we could find some more info -- altho' a lot of this seems to be obscured by time, given that it closed up at the beginning of the 20th Century -- and if Terry Pepper doesn't have it, then it's not easily recoverable, I would guess. I actually was very specific in my searches -- just filling in the blanks, so to speak, when I used the Mackinac Point links as a template. So I haven't actually done a generalized google search of this lighthouse, which sometimes really brings up something useful. It also helps to pay attention to the links in the various articles that I've already uncovered. BTW, you might want to take a look at the Crisp Point Lighthouse Society webpage (there's a link in Crisp Point Light, as they have a really good collection of websites. The University of North Carolina (link in McGulpin Point has good general info, too. Stay in touch. It's good working with you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:34, 2 July 2008 (UTC) Stan

Happy Fourth of July

Hey Stan. I wish you the best 4th of July ever....your friend.... ♦ Luigibob ♦ 20:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Happy Independence Day to you, too

I was out of town, so pardon the delay. Happy 4th of July. And soon, Happy Bastille Day, which after all features what I believe is a much more stirring national anthem, "La Marseillaise"! Best to you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:28, 9 July 2008 (UTC) Stan

Thank you sir. Agreed on all points. Yes, quite an incredible song. The patriots all sing the song in the historic Casablanca (film). It always brings a tear to my eye. We all, Americans, French...always look towards freedom. ♦ Luigibob ♦ 11:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Much better song -- lyics and music -- than The Star Spangled Banner, which after all was written to the tune of a British pub song, and almost nobody can hit that high. It's at best a mediocre song. The English translation of "La Marseillaise" is quite stirring with blood running in the streets and all. You are quite right about Casablanca (film) -- and it is one of the great moments in film. Best again. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC) Stan

Trial films, part two

Yes, I'm sure you are right. Let's work on it together next week. I'm so busy right now. Your friend -- Luigibob (talk) 23:19, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Me too. Works for me. I also invited carptrash (Einar) along for the ride. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC) Stan

Thanks for contacting me...yes, I think we are moving along with the article. We might want to work on the intro a bit. An article on just a list is frowned upon by Wikipedians, so we need to work on the body of the article. Still busy since it's the political season.... Best, your friend -- Luigibob (talk) 05:25, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Reuter House on NRHP list?

Hi ... I'm in the process of converting all of the Michigan county NRHP lists to a standardized table format per WP:NRHP. I see that you added the Irving Jacob Reuter House to the Eaton County list last November. As best as I can determine, this site is not on the National Register. It doesn't come up in a search of the NRHP database and the State of Michigan Historic Sites Online website, it is only listed being on the state register. Do you have a source that indicates that it's on the National Register? Thanks. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 17:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply ... I checked out the references in the article and while I found reference to the Michigan State Register, there's no specific mention that I could find that this site is on the National Register. Per WP:NRHP, the county RHP lists are for places that are on the National Register only, as is (note that the introductory sentences in both the Eaton County list article and the RHPs in Michigan category specify the National Register). For this reason, I omitted the Reuter House from the Eaton County RHP list table that I created earlier today. Unless you object, I'm also going to remove the RHP category from the Reuter House article. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 01:36, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Harbor Beach Light

Hi. I've responded to your message on my talk page, in order to keep the conversation all in one place. Ipoellet (talk) 15:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Alexander Macomb (American general)

I've responded to your message re:Macomb on my talk page, as well. Ipoellet (talk) 23:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Charity Island edits

I saw the edits by the anon and yourself. Just some thoughts in case they try to re-remove the content: I'm not sure as to the anon's reasons for the edits; but mentioning the specific company by name could by an issue with Misplaced Pages's anti-spam/advertising guidelines. But as they didn't give an edit summary, I honestly don't know their actual reasons. If that was why he/she removed it, I think it can be cleaned up just by dropping the company's name - no need to wipe out the full paragraph like the anon did. If they do it again, you may want to try starting a dialog with them, and/or just dropping the company name as a compromise that allows the paragraph to remain. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 23:04, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Military person template

Here is a link to the template page for a military person Click here. The template page gives all the information you need to add information to the infobox. I started adding some info for the Macomb page, but you may have more expertise with this person. Asher196 (talk) 02:52, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, I'll work on it, you need some rest! Have a safe trip....Asher196

Left you a present

Hi Stan, I left you a little present on all of your Micihgan Light pages. Hope you like it. Cheers, ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 11:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Lighthouse template

Hi Stan, I've added Poe Reef Light. If you want to edit the template directly click on "v" in the "vde" in the title bar. That takes you to the template; then to edit you just edit that page similar to an article page. If you aren't comfortable editing certain things in the code, you can leave requests on the template talk page. Here's a link to Template:Lighthouses of Michigan...and you can continue to ask me if you want. I just wanted you to know in case I weren't available. What time did you get up this morning? I noticed you were on shortly after I was and I'm on east coast time. I take it you aren't at the library this morning.

Enjoying the coffee at home...⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:16, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Berean: Had to come back home; have business to attend to in Detroit this morning. 5:00 a.m. EST. Poe Reef Light is kinda short, but the links are in (lots of info there), so if you feel like editing, you are cordially invited. Thanks for giving me the info on the info(box). 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

There was a great Irish pub called Plunkett's just across the water in Windsor..I don't know if it is still there but if you if feel adventurous...

Too many pokers in the fire to undertake the text additions you seek at the present. My sandboxes stay pretty active and I've got a big wikilist. I'm working my way adding other lighthouse templates state by state..since MI I've added VA, MD, DE, SC, GA, FL...and will proceed with that for a while. I have other templates and projects in the oven. I began assessing the articles on MI lights as I have been for the other states as well as I've worked with the templates. You're right, most are stubs and desperately need "meat & potatoes" writing added to them...what's holding you back? Your knowledge of the subject & access & familarity to the sources makes you an optimal candidate to add that. I'm on the lower part of the learning curve about lighthouses. That is why I decided to try to contribute with something I could accomplish...a tool to assist you & other editors with navigating between the articles. I'm learning about lights though...I have to continue to edit lightly in the meantime.

I'm still working on supporting material for an article that I recently put out. It is on Misplaced Pages's main page today in the "Did you know" section. If you want a change of pace from editing then pick your favorite beverage and eyeball *this*. Have a good Sunday, ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 13:32, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Never been to Plunkett's. Thanks for the suggestion. As to the editing of other states, I actually did (a few) for Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota and Wisconsin, where I put in the 'good links' in a few articles, in the hope that somebody else might pick up the torch. My main focus now is to create (or update) all of the Michigan lighthouse articles, and that takes a lot of time. i've been very good at adding the on line resources to the articles I've worked on (which gives the readers a place to go to get the best on line info, pictures, etc.), and reasonably good at adding books -- I try to pick up any special books related to the article (see, e.g., Point Betsie Light). I have added a lot of substance to the arttilces and in line references, but with the exception of a few lighthouses, have only scratched the surface. With 149 lighthouses in Michigan (editors might differ on the number -- there are a lot of lights that have disappeared, and then there are paired range lights, for example, and one might or might not count them, so people might differ on the count -- some on line sources claim only 115 lights) -- in any event this is a huge undertaking, and I have (with a couple of minor exceptions) avoided writing on articles in other state and off the Great Lakes. The sources elsewhere are different, and I don't know if they have the equivalent of Terry Pepper, who is (IMHO) the gold standard for on line resources. I've also helped get the infoboxes straightened out. In any event, my main intent is to get all the Michigan lighthouse articles created or updated, and that is taking a lot of time and effort. Keep up the good work, Berean. Best to you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

Waugoshance Light

Both Terry Pepper and the USCG site say that the light is encased in iron plate. From Terry Pepper, "In order to effect the most nearly permanent repair possible with the technology available, the decision was made encase the entire structure in 3/8" thick boiler plate, riveted together, and leaving sufficient space between the iron and the masonry for filling with a layer of concrete. Bids were let for the contract on July 1, 1883, Buhl Iron Works Company of Detroit was the lowest bidder at $23,000, and was thus awarded the contract for the work. " From the USCG "Construction Materials: BRICK ENCASED W/IRON PLATE Tower Shape: CONICAL (ENCASED IN IRON IN 1883)" Which source is saying that the material is steel? Asher196 (talk) 14:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Asher

I am going to post your note and my replace on the talk page of Waugoshance Light. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

Waugoshance Light

You make a good point. There is clearly a split in the various sources.

The National Park Inventory says "Iron", too.

However, these two say steel:

• Edwards, Jack, "A Nautical Gravestone", Great Lakes Cruiser Magazine (October, 1994) Lighthouse Digest.
• Waugoshance Lighthouse Preservation Society.

}I note that Big Sable Point Light, Little Sable Point, New Presque Isle Light and Spectacle Reef Light, which are roughly contemporary, had steel, too. (I think). Additionally, in the time frame the growth of the iron and steel industry was a big part of the context in which this all occurred.

Of course, Terry Pepper is generally so meticulous and better researched than most other sources, so perhaps we should rely on him. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 15:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

Link to marinas.com

I've reverted your link to marinas.com in Lighthouses in the United States because site is promoting marinas in the vicinity of lighthouses, and I do not believe it is an appropriate link for Misplaced Pages. -- Donald Albury 21:07, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Marinas.com

Dear Donald: Thanks for your note. I agree, of course, that they have a website that has a commercial purpose. But I did not include it for that reason. I've been working on lots of lighthouse articles, and am well familiar with the information that is available on line. It is my opinion that the particular photographs that they offer are a real potential bonus for our readers. They are unique and better than alternative sources. I do not know which article you were referring to. In any event, I think that there is room in Misplaced Pages and there is room under Wiki policy for such a website, provided that it has suitable content and a proper purpose. I would suggest that you chat with Barek about this. He is a premier spam fighter, and will provide you with wise counsel. Whatever he says is something I will live with. Best to you. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:28, 15 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

FYI: I added my comments at User talk:Donald Albury#Marinas.com. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:51, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Alpena Light

I have made some amendatory changes to the Alpena Light article, but as you can see they primarily consist of moving words and sentences around rather than adding or subtracting things. Some editors, such as myself, tend to differentiate "history" from "what the lighthouse looks like/its function/its cultural value today," and my edits tend to reflect this desire to differentiate.

I myself think it is very appropriate to have how-to-see-the-lighthouse driving descriptions in our articles, where these directions are made appropriate by local conditions and circumstances. If a particular lighthouse is tough to locate, and somebody can't find the lighthouse, then they will not be able to appreciate it; giving out directions is a reasonable use of Misplaced Pages's database function. However I suppose some might disagree. I believe there is, or was, an item of guidance that stated that "Misplaced Pages is not a guidebook" (or some such phraseology). This guidance may have been drafted when Misplaced Pages was more closely affiliated with Wikitravel than it is now.

Thanks again for your very hard work on this and many other articles. Bigturtle (talk) 22:31, 18 August 2008 (UTC

BT, I agree with you totally. I don't know about Wikitravel, and presume that I am violating a lot of supposed rules. That being said, I think it helpful to give the users some useful information, and all this qualifies in spades. As to organization, your splits are logical and helpful. Obviously, reasonable minds could differ, but form ought to follow function. If the structure works well in a particular article given its nature and content, then it is obviously a right form. I've never been a believer in cookie cutter writing, unless it particularly fits. I was just working on Au Sable Light which could use your help. This drafting by committee can work quite effectively, as we've just proved. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 22:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

Temporary setback

Hi Stan, I ran into problems *here* when I tried working at the commons. I plan to give it another shot on a different computer. I've just had some routine scheduling changes and might not be on wikipedia as much..have to see how the new schedule works out. Today was rough. Cheers,⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Good Morning Stan, the first image I uploaded at the commons was for Au Sable, but then I found out someone else must have helped you out by loading it here in WP. I should be able to handle photo uploads much easier than before..even though it means I have to power up a Windows machine to do it. 8^D I'll start looking for more USCG photos to add. Do you know of any that you want added? Cheers, ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:43, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

United States lightship Huron (LV-103)

If you could help, references need to be cleaned up. I am trying to get this reassessed by WikiProject Michigan. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 11:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

I'll do what I can. What specifically do I have to do with the references? Asher196 (talk) 02:04, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I think I have the references fixed now. Take a look and see if I missed anything. If you want to learn how to use the same reference multiple times, just read Misplaced Pages:Citing sources#Using the same citation again Asher196 (talk) 02:16, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

That looks easy. Give a man a footnote, and he will have a better article. Teach a man to footnote and he can reference for life. Of something like that. Thanks, Asher. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 11:45, 24 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

Gaylord, Michigan and Colon, Michigan

I am keeping an eye on the articles and the IP via my Contributions page. ... discospinster _talk 23:30, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

They are on my watch list. You do not have to carry the load by yourself. I can (and will) help. Let them violate the rules, and there can be repercussions. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

Argh!

If you have a good cure for kidney stones, I could use one about now.....Asher196 (talk) 02:50, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Sonic busting in a tub at a hospital at one time was perhaps the most effective cure. I am not current on the treatments (I once had a case that involved this, but that was nigh on to thirty years ago. There may be newer pharmaceuticals that can help with the pain and the condition, but I am not current. Very painful affliction (I am told). The affected party has my sympathy. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:56, 27 August 2008 (UTC) Stan

I have some good pain meds that are not doing the job right now....Asher196 (talk) 03:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Really good drugs would have been my answer, too. Afterwards, consider lifestyle changes if appropriate. I had my first stones in '92 and unfortunately had them 3-4 times since with the last in 2001. I've always passed them naturally (got a funnel to play catch with?) and the pain ranks right up there with excruciating dental pain. I hope you are already over it. If it turns out to be Calcium oxalate stones, consider taking magnesium, which binds more readily to the oxalate to prevent formation of stones...oh, and forget fruit juices like cranberry..it is a myth. Hope you get better Asher. I was coming 'round to check on Stan - he hasn't been 'assaulting' those lighthouse articles like usual. Hopefully a good vacation over Labor Day and not ill. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Things are well here. Just returning from a vacation (from Misplaced Pages and work). Hope Asher is feeling better. 12:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Passed the stone and feeling much better now. Asher196 (talk) 12:56, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Excellent on both counts. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 13:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Michigan Lighthouse pictures at Archives of Michigan

Fellow lighthouse editors: I have uncovered an awesome collection of Michigan lighthouse pictures, namely, the Archives of Michigan, which appear to be public domain, albeit requiring that they be credited as coming from the "Archives of Michigan." These could be wonderful additions to our lighthouse articles, if they are usable under wiki policy. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 19:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC) Stan

I see where they only want credited (no problem) but I can't find anything giving a clear statement about it being in the public domain. Many appear to be of the USCG public domain variety. Have you seen it at their site? ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 20:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about their policy, other than what it said on each picture, which was the "please credit . . . " . I note that some of them Sturgeon Point lighthouse post card. aren't USCG. This is a really big collection, and is completely searchable. It would solve the problem (for example) we had with Big Bay Point Light, where we don't have a decent picture. The life saving pictures are awesome. There is a trove of invaluable pictures, not just about Michigan lighthouses, but including Wisconsin and Illinois lights. Here is an awesome picture on Tawas Point Light at Michigan archive, Tawas Point Light. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 20:22, 11 September 2008 (UTC) Stan

I'm looking into it..may take a few days for results. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:03, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Berean -- Thanks. Let me know what you find. This is really a breakthrough, potentially. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC) Stan

I wrote them over a week ago asking for clarification but haven't gotten a response regarding licensing for the photos. If we can find out that it is ok, I will proceed with loading them..not sure what approach to take from here. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 17:49, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Ile Aux Galets

I saw your changes to this article. They look good and I hope to do some edits soon. Bigturtle (talk) 21:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I have dropped a comment in the "Talk" section OK-ing the renaming of this article as Skillagalee Island. Sorry for the delay in getting back in this thread. I was out of town on a work-related trip in a setting where I caould read the Internet but could not easily add anything of length. Bigturtle (talk) 00:48, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Whew!

Just got back from a brush with death. I had a surgical procedure last week that went well, until the next day at home when a blot clot went to my lung. It was tense for a while, but I'm home now and ready to edit. Asher196 (talk) 23:25, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Forgive me for butting in but I'm glad you are alright now. I know you've been having it rough...the kidney stones alone should have filled your pain quota for a couple of years...hopefully this means you are overdue for a long healthy stretch. Wishing you good health! ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 23:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, I hope you're right! Asher196 (talk) 01:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Copper Island

An article that you have been involved in editing, Copper Island, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Copper Island. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Imzadi1979 (talk) 21:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Grosse Point Light

I will be working on the above on and off, I noticed you had compiled some sources. Any ideas which books are the best to go toward for info on this specific lighthouse? And, of course, any assistance with the article would be great. I have added a bit to it and done some clean up as well as setting up a few stub subsections for my future work.--IvoShandor (talk) 10:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I would recommend the Putnam book because of who he is. Other than that, I have no idea as to the specifics of the GPL in the literature. Sorry. I added in most of the common websites. I don't personally know of Illinois websites that are not listed, but it might be worth a look. If yo google Grosse Point light, there may be more out there. The Terry Pepper site has a lot of good info and is very well resarched (I would rely on Terry over most other sources, because he is meticulous), as is the Lighthouse Digest. Grosse Point Light is unique, as he latter indicates, in that it has an organized support group, while the rest of the Illinois lights don't. Another thing that is missing from this article is the lighthouse building frenzy on the Great Lakes of which is was a part. See Sturgeon Point Light for example. Because of the NHRP documents, etc, you've got a rally fine base from which to work. Best of luck in your efforts.

Copper Island

FYI: The normal AfD process is five days. At the end of five days, someone (usually an admin) will review the postings and will make a decision based on the comments. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:13, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Michigan Trails

Hi Stan, does this template work? ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:11, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I think so, but I know not very much about templates or Michigan hiking trails. I would say post it on the trails, and see what happens, if anything. I would think that if you put them on these main trails, they will get used, and maybe edited, too. Thanks for doing this.b 01:36, 2 October 2008 (UTC) Stan

Here's a quick source on a bunch of trails that may (or may not) have articles. Michigan Hiking trails. Another Pure Michigan Hiking Trails. And of course, there are the National Parks, Isle Royale, Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore, Sleeping Bear Dunes and the various Michigan State Parks including Porcupine Mountains State Park, Hartwick Pines State Park, Grand Island and Grand Island National Recreation Area] near Munising, etc. I don't know if those should be included? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 01:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC) Stan

Good Morning, I used "Hiking Trails in Michigan" as well as the "Rail trails in Michigan" categories for the entries in the template. I didn't see parks per se when looking at the Pennsylvania Trails but I will look closer later today. I am kind of waiting to see other editor reactions, if any, to reveal possible mistakes that I may have made with conventions or whatnot. I left Bicycle trails alone. I also created the same template for NC. Once things are ironed out, I could make them for the other states. I'll be watching these guinea pigs.⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 12:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Good morning to you too, Berean. I agreed, and think templates are potentially very useful for our users. This will be a journey and learning experience. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:43, 2 October 2008 (UTC) Stan

Battle of Platsburg

Hi and nice to meet you! Do you have any reference to the said award? I reverted when I saw it had been wedged in between the last sentence and citation. I am not doubting your good faith by the way you seem to have done a nice job around wiki Tirronan (talk) 21:57, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Lighthouses in Michigan

Thanks for your note.

Actually, WP:EL specifically requires the minimum number of external links for an article; the logic applies to "Further reading" sections as well. Links and other sources that might be useful for expansion are supposed to be stored on the article's talk page. (I'm not saying it's always the best solution; I'm just telling you the official solution for this situation.)

I have no particular interest in either lighthouses or Michigan. The only reason that any of these articles are on my edit list is because the "Further reading" section uses a section heading that is both non-standard and specifically deprecated: "Bibliography and further reading". Misplaced Pages, according to the wisdom of its thousands of editors, finds the term "Bibliography" confusing. The term is therefore reserved solely for sections that list works by a single author, in the Misplaced Pages article about that author. About half a percent of referenced articles (mis)use this term (according to the "house style", not according to the typical teacher of English literature, but it's the house style that matters here), and I am very slowly cleaning up some of these articles. If you want me to ignore the articles, then you might correct that heading to "Further reading". I'd be thoroughly pleased to find that a search for "Bibliography and further reading" (quoted phrase) comes up empty instead of with fifty Michigan-related articles.

You might, while correcting those headings, also correct the order of the appendices, which should (always) be:

• See also
• References (or Notes: either heading is officially accepted)
• Further reading
• External links

There are more details at WP:LAYOUT if you're interested. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:33, 14 October 2008 (UTC) (who is not watching this page)

Dear WhatamIdoing,

Thanks for your prompt response. I will (in due course) eliminate the "Bibliography" as I do not want to upset the editors or buck the standards. I don't particularly care what we call it == it was a formulation that was intended to combine the notions of sources for the article and other sources that could be of some use. As to the order, that is sometimes a problem. Sometimes the "Further reading" is footnoted, and it then won't be picked up in the References or Notes.

only looks backward, so to speak. I'm going to be out of the office for the next few days, but will try to get to this in the next ten days. Thanks again. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:48, 14 October 2008 (UTC) Stan

I took care of checking/changing Lights A-L (ending Ludington Light)...headed to bed now but hope to lend a hand, time-depending over the next couple of days. I don't think "Further reading" is supposed to be footnoted right? eeeuw! Messy. You may want to check behind me in case there are some broken refs that I didn't see. G'nite, ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Wikisource link

Hi, thanks for your message. I just added Template:Wikisource to Frank Murphy and linked it to wikisource:en:Author:Frank Murphy.--Neo-Jay (talk) 16:21, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

St. Helena Island Light

This light has broken citation tags that were in the article before I started refactoring. Look under "Current status" section. Also two of the refs are ref'ed themselves..probably a rewrite of the format would fix those. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

You are very kind. It's pretty funny coming from the workhorse's mouth, too. I'm used to seeing all of YOUR edits and recognizing your dedication.

It has been enjoyable editing on the lights and I think I have gained a fair interest in the subject along the way as well. There's still so much to do...Cheers,⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 00:49, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Frank Murphy

I'm sorry, I guess I don't understand what you mean. I posted his WWI service under the 'military service' section on the infobox, and someone else had already posted it in his biography in the article. Is there somewhere else I should post it as well? - Packerfansam 18 October 2008

It's no problem, just wanted to make sure we were understanding each other. - Packerfansam 18 October 2008

Fred M. Vinson

This picture might be a good addition in the Supreme Court section. Wikimedia Commons, bust of Fred M. Vinson. I don't know how to do that. What do you think? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 14:16, 19 October 2008 (UTC) Stan

You simply use the same image name from Commons. I added it to the section you suggested. I think it looks good. Asher196 (talk) 15:59, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Userpage Shield
		Thanks for getting rid of that vandalism on my talk page! I had no idea it was there. I hereby award you The Userpage Shield Barnstar Asher196 (talk) 03:07, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Spectacle Reef Light

With respect to the new article on Spectacle Reef Light, thank you as always for your hard work. The following questions are not meant to question the underlying article, but could provide some guidance on how to make it even better:

1-- Is Spectacle Reef Light still the most expensive lighthouse built on the Great Lakes, or was that the case when the light was built in the 1870s and not any more?

2-- What were the names of the two schooners lost on the reef in 1867?

3-- Why is it significant that the Lighthouse Board had to charter a steamer to carry materials to the site? I assume that this signified that the volume of material required was much greater than normal and this created unusual logistical challenges in the construction project, but this is not made clear.

4-- The light is "the best specimen of monolithic stone masonry in the United States" - who said that? Citation please.

5-- Bois Blanc Island (Michigan) is the nearest land - but what is the compass interrelationship between the two? I believe Bois Blanc is generally to the northwest of the reef and Spectacle Reef to the southeast of the island - please clarify.

6-- How can the second-order Fresnel lens be the "original" lens when a temporary fourth-order lens preceded it?

Thank you for your consideration of these questions, Bigturtle (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

BT, good questions all. I took the liberty of inserting numbers on your queries, so tha the answers will be more easily understandable.

1. All the sources agree that this was the most expensive lighthouse built on the Great Lakes. Terry Pepper and the Coast Guard. There were lighthouses built later, including Stannard Rock. As you will see that too was an expensive lighthouse, but the start up costs incurrd in doing Spectacle Reef benefited the 1878 construction. That is now discussed in the article As you will see when you start gunking around in the sources, virtually all of the published articles (on line) track the U.S. Coast Guard rendition of the history of this light. In fact, I think it came from the U.S. Coast Guard historical lighthouse book -- U.S. Coast Guard, Historically Famous Lighthouses (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1957). (I've not read it, but it is explicitly referenced in one of the sources I used, and those are available in the references and in the external links.

2. The schooners are explicitly named in the Terry Pepper article, and in several of the other sources. That was said to be a $300,000 loss.

4. "Best specimen of monolithic stone construction" is followed directly by a reference. "The Spectacle Reef Lighthouse cost $406,000 and is the best specimen of monolithic stone masonry in the United States. . . " is a quote from the Coast Guard article cited in footnote 11.

5. Bois Blanc was mentioned only because it was in most of the underlying articles, and was the closest land. Your are generally correct about the directions.

6. As to the Second Order being the "original" you are technically correct. But the underlying articles all say that the Fourth Order was put in as a temporary stop qap, and that the intention was always to put in the Second Order Henry Lepaute lens. Second Order lenses are extraordinary in Great Lakes. I think that only four were installed. More details on that side of the question are in the article on Grosse Point Light and the NRHP assessment. I think it took a while to get this delivered form Paris, and that is why they went with a temporary lens. I made an editorial judgment, but perhaps I could have expressed it better. Of course, trying to fill in the blanks on the infobox does not leave much room for an explanation (although I suppose it could be footnoted. so that we don't make a blatant misstatement of fact and mislead our esteemed readers).

I would like to point out that the Fourth order Fresnel was not installed in the lighthouse, but rather on top of one of the buildings at the site. I new Second order lens was installed in the completed lantern room of the lighthouse in the spring of 1874. Asher196 (talk) 19:08, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

7. Additionally, I am still somewhat bewildered about the range, type, and characteristic of the current lens. I put that on the discussion page. Trying to coalesce the (apparently) conflicting(or at least incomplete) information gave me some concern.

I have put in so many references in the article that I am confident you can relatively quickly find the sources for what I wrote. Therefore, I hope that you will not beput off by my failure to put them here too.

I hope that clarifies what I know and where it came from. As always, reasonable minds will differ at times, and a good editor will see the flaws in what I wrote. Not to mention that typing, grammar, syntax, and style are always subject to improvement. I also know that when I put together that amount of information in that short a time, there will be errors, and I will be blind to them (at least in the short term). That's precisely why I asked for your (and Asher's and Barek's) help.

Of course, if I can assist further in any way, please let me know.

Thanks for answering the call. Best regards, as always. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 00:52, 31 October 2008 (UTC) Stan

DYK nomination

Hi. I've nominated Spectacle Reef Light, an article you worked on, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Misplaced Pages:Did you know. You can see the hook for the article at Template talk:Did you know#Articles created/expanded on October 29, where you can improve it if you see fit. Thanks --Bruce1ee 10:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. But it still is a work in progress, and is in the earliest stages of birth, so to speak.7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:57, 31 October 2008 (UTC) Stan

Hi Stan, I replied on my talk page.Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 16:59, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Reply from/to wpwatchdog

Hello Stan, I am very new to Misplaced Pages etiquette and editing. I admire your work on Michigan articles. What do I do when I find an article that has been running totally off topic over the course of years? The Tawas Point State Park article is well done - I wouldn't venture to touch it at this point of my Misplaced Pages career. Wpwatchdog (talk) 18:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

WPwatchdog, I'm glad that you liked Tawas Point State Park. My only thought was that you had shown some r eal expertise about birding and finding sites on the subject matter, and the article would benefit from your (already demonstrated) expertise on the subject. I am confident that you could make a real serious contribution there. You should not hesitate to do this. This is a collaborative process, and that article does not have a whole lot of contributors (and I think I'm the only one that has written on the birding there. So the chances of your drawing fire, so to speak, is pretty small So I say just go for it. This is a pretty small and cooperative community that has been editing that article, and I think they will be receptive and helpful.

Note also that I reformatted your replies, as the indentation protocol, at least to about the fourth level, then back out again, is normal.

As to you question, I don't know exactly what to say. It depends on the article. It also depends on the other editors on that article. Some editors are cooperative, and some are protective and restrictive. Some think that they have a patent on the information, and that only their interpretation is correct. I would suggest that you might contact Asher196 and Barek and Bkonrad, as the two of them have more experience than I in editing in contentious and popular articles. I have done a whole lot of edits, but they are -- by and large -- in articles that are on the fringes of Misplaced Pages. There are not a whole lot of people vying to edit obscure Michigan lighthouse articles -- although the ones that do are part of a very good and cooperative community. My only point is that I have stayed away from some of the really big articles, like Michigan for example, because they seem to have constant editorial disagreements, and by my nature I am happier working alone or with small committees. Consequently, I went to work on Northern Michigan, offered some assistnce on the Thumb, gunked around on a bunch of communities I knew something about, and Frank Murphy because I knew something I knew about the subject matter, and because I felt those articles were wrong-headed (Northern Michigan) or woefully inadequate. I started out on the Outhouse article (under my IP address, not this name), and really rewrote it substantially. But in doing that, I always left the work that was in there mainly in place. I might move it, but I did not try to erase the prior efforts. I made changes incrementally. Choose where you go, and what you do carefully. And put in references. This will establish some street cred. Anyway, that is what I think FWIW. Hope that gives you some perspective. We need all the editing help we can get. If I can help, Please let me know. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 23:58, 2 November 2008 (UTC) Stan

Thank you so much for the encouragement. I did try to get adopted but so far, no luck - so please forgive my gaffes in Misplaced Pages protocol. I am not a bird expert by any means but I do know how to get reliable information about the birds at Tawas Point State Park. I will try some editing on that article when I have more information. Thank you for the tips and advice that I will put to good use. Diligently studying, Wpwatchdog (talk) 01:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually Stan, the Michigan article seems to have relatively little activity lately. Most editing on the page seems to revolve around updating stats and reverting vandalism. Maybe it's worth a look again. Asher196 (talk) 02:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll think about it and take a look. When you have that many editors and all that attention, even reasonable minds will differ, and the need to build consensus, or at least acquiescence, is very real. I've done some editing on various Supreme Court justices, but have gone very slow in messing with content on Hugo Black or William Douglas and such substantive articles as

DYK for Spectacle Reef Light

On 6 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Spectacle Reef Light, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Politizer (talk • contribs) 03:25, 6 November 2008 UTC (UTC)

Congratulations! --Bruce1ee 04:59, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Wikicookie

User:Florentino floro has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy munching!

Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:Cookie}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Oh, thanks for your message and visit.Please do feel free to trim/shorten my edit. I was invited to contribute to WikiNews, and now on Wikiquote, but I find it so difficult to be a News and quote editor because of time and pressures. I am quite happy to share my wisdom here. But I thank you for your suggestions.

I added the Hugo Black quote, when, here in the Philippines (CNN cable), Obama said: "And to all those watching tonight from beyond our shores, xxx to those who are huddled around radios in the forgotten corners of our world our stories are singular, but our destiny is shared, xxx." Obama (I Have a Dream), echoed King, Jr.s' 1963 advocacy. Obama, Black and King, Jr. - are the greatest gift, in my life. Since the Supreme Court of the United States, created under the Judiciary Act of 1789, convened for the first time on February 2, 1790, and since our Supreme Court of the Philippines was created on June 11, 1901, by Act No. 136, the Judiciary Law of the Second Philippine Commission, and since our first Philippine Chief Justice Cayetano Arellano assumed office on June 11, 1901, our Philippine courts and yours never punished a magistrate by the supreme penalty of separations from service: due to religious beliefs and alleged consultation of mystic and healing dwarves.

- William W. Bedsworth

Since I studied Jesuit's philosophy and law (Ateneo de Manila University, 1971-1974, 1978-1982), I was never awed by any magistrate's ruling or judgment, than Hugo Black's immortal "ratio decidendi" - No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs. I lost my job, and now, I am jobless, because my own country's Justices punished me, since 8 of them were medically operated amid my dire prophecies, as Catholic. King, Jr. fought racial and civil rights discrimination because of color, but no African slave, judge or public servant like Condoleeza Rice were punished because of atheism or christian credo. I and only I was persecuted amid Hugo Black's immortal quote-ponencia. Obama gave me hope, that, IN TIME, in a future but certain moment of our destinies, judges and slaves will never be punished because of beliefs or disbeliefs. Obama erased color, but Obama might have not seen the pain of punishment due to religious beliefs. Witches were burned in the Middle ages-Inquisition, but King, Jr.s-Obama's times never saw witnessed the pain, my pain. Cheers.--Florentino floro (talk) 08:54, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Reply

I'll certainly take a look when I have a minute. I really only got involved with Felix because his name amused me and I happened to be reading about him as part of my Learned researches. I'll see if any of the books I have on hand currently talk about Murphy, but after that I'll probably have had my fill of American judges!! Time for something closer to home! Thanks for asking though, and for the positive feedback too. --Slp1 (talk) 01:28, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, while I was reclining in my bath I peaked at Murphy's career as described in Peter Irons' "A People's History of the Supreme Court" , and quickly saw that Murphy was just my kind of judge. I can understand your enthusiasm, and perhaps you are right that it is an appropriate response to our difficult but amazingly changing (I hope) times. This Canadian will see what she can do.--Slp1 (talk) 02:27, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: SS Carl D. Bradley

Thanks for your suggestion. Unfortunately, since the article is not a new article, it needs to be expanded fivefold to qualify for DYK. (It was about 2500 characters long when you began the expansion yesterday, which means the reviewers at DYK won't accept it unless you can get it up to 12,500 characters.) —Politizer /_contribs 13:46, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

five X will be quite an order. Thanks for the prompt response. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 13:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC) Stan

Invitation-request to comment on ANI, Max v Floro & Floro v Max, for blocking

Hi, may I please request you to submit some comment on myand User:Maxschmelling's twin petitions-complaints on the Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents for blocking. Despite the long RFC, where Max lost, and was warned not to stalk me, since September 25, Max refused to stop stalking me and my edits. This is a sad day for Misplaced Pages. Cheers.

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--Florentino floro (talk) 05:47, 18 November 2008 (UTC)