Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 00:33, 4 December 2008

Hurricane Faith (1966)

Hey there, just wanted to let you know that I undid your moving of Hurricane Faith (1966) → Hurricane Faith, because the year is to disambiguate from other storms of the same name. If a storm was retired, it doesn't require the year in the title, but per WPTC guidelines, as Faith wasn't retired, it needs the bit. Cheers, –Juliancolton 01:29, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

But there aren't any other Hurricane Faith's! Tavix (talk) 01:30, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Ethnic group articles

Hi. In light of the failure to reach consensus at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Afghan British‎ I've suggested that there be a discussion of the various issues raised, here. Your input would be appreciated. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Request another look

Could you have another look at Realization and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Realization. Your red link problem was just a cute case of vandalism. -- saberwyn 00:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Football articles

Do you have a consensus to move football player articles to non-logical names? Corvus cornix_talk 01:38, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

• Explain to me why they are non-logical. I'm just making it so that all of the ambiguous American football players have the same notice in parentheses. Before there were "football", "football player" ect. Tavix (talk) 01:41, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Because you're moving them to "American foopball", which people who would be expected to look for the names for, would not expect. If somebody knows what an American football player is (vs. an "American football" player), then they would look for "football", not "American football". You're sending them to names that people would not look for. And you haven't answered my question as to whether you have consensus to make these moves. Corvus cornix_talk 01:54, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest discussing it at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject American football. Corvus cornix_talk 01:56, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

• That makes no sense. The "American" part in the name is to distinguish it from Association football also known as Soccer, and you don't need the fact that they are a player in the title because it is obvious that they are a football player from the article. Also, it seems like someone needs to read WP:BEBOLD. You only need a consensus to do controversial changes, which this one obviously isn't. Tavix (talk) 01:58, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Please get consensus. Corvus cornix_talk 02:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I've brought it up at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_American_football#Moving_football_player_articles. Corvus cornix_talk 02:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Apparently nobody on the WikiProject cares, to then, so be it. Corvus cornix_talk 04:19, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I oppose the moves you are doing to football player dabs. What possible rationale do you have for moving Charles Roberts (American football player) to Charles Roberts (American football). As a person who has played his entire professional career playing Canadian football, it seems a poor choice. The logical place is Charles Roberts (football player), where it used to be. There is no need for further disambiguation of the dab. I also suggest the move from Tom Brown (defensive lineman) should have been to Tom Brown (football player) as he only played Canadian football professionally but is also noted as a college American football player. There is no need for further disambiguation since the soccer player is dabbed (footballer) as per the norm. DoubleBlue (Talk) 22:41, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

"It is generally preferred to use a noun that describes the person, rather than an activity, genre, or affiliation (chemist, not chemistry)." Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (people)#Qualifier between bracketing parentheses. DoubleBlue (Talk) 22:48, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I request again that you stop these nonsense moves. DoubleBlue (Talk) 01:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

• Its not nonsense and it makes a lot more sense as it disambiguates Association football (soccer), American football, Canadian football, and Australian football. I feel strongly on this issue and will not stop. Sorry (not really). Tavix (talk) 02:29, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

• I feel at least equally strongly against these moves. Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (people)#Qualifier between bracketing parentheses rightly points out that "It is generally preferred to use a noun that describes the person, rather than an activity, genre, or affiliation (chemist, not chemistry)" which makes (American football) and the like non-preferred. It is also preferred to use the most simple and general term not the most precise one so simply using (football player) is fine if there are no other football players with the same name regardless of which kind of football he plays. The dab is not intended to be a précis of the article, just a means of naming more than one article with the same title. The brief is in the lead of the article. Using overly precise dabs when they are unnecessary makes guessing or assigning a dab to use that much more difficult and risks all sorts of incorrect dabs when players change between forms of football. (football player) should be the standard and alternates used only when necessary because more than one player with same name is best known as a football player. DoubleBlue (Talk) 04:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Date pages

Please do not redirect pages like 11 May 2003! Those are all transcluded to the relevant article on that month of the year. It' stated in the headers to those articles. De728631 (talk) 19:42, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Just wait. When I hit save page, it will all be included. PAITENCE! Tavix (talk) 19:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that's a wise idea. Such changes to the system must be properly discussed beforehand. De728631 (talk) 19:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

• It has been in centralized discussion about two months ago. I can dig up the link for you if you want. Tavix (talk) 19:50, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, if it was decided to redirect all those pages, then I won't say a thing. It just looked strangely like good faith edits because you didn't say a thing on the edit summary. De728631 (talk) 19:53, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

• Sorry, I added a summary for the January articles, but to save time I decided not to do it for May to get it done with quicker. Tavix (talk) 19:55, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Burial of Jennifer Rosanne States

Please see my comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jennifer Rosanne States, and review the references at Burial of Jennifer Rosanne States. --Eastmain (talk) 01:59, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

October Baseball WP Newsletter

The Baseball WikiProject Newsletter Issue III – October 2008

"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving a baby's life... she'll save the baby without even considering how many men are on base!" — Stephen King (The Dark Tower) News and announcements The Baseball Project promoted 13 lists to Featured status in August and 8 more in September. Amazing job! A combined eleven articles were promoted to Good Article status in August and September. Featured content In September, WikiProject Baseball has had the following articles promoted to: Featured Article status: Nashville Sounds Featured List status: List of New York Mets Opening Day starting pitchers, List of Colorado Rockies Opening Day starting pitchers, List of Florida Marlins Opening Day starting pitchers, Nashville Sounds seasons, List of Tampa Bay Rays Opening Day starting pitchers, List of Seattle Mariners Opening Day starting pitchers, List of Boston Red Sox Opening Day starting pitchers, List of Arizona Diamondbacks Opening Day starting pitchers, New York Yankees seasons Good Articles of August and September: All the Way (Eddie Vedder song), Cy Young, Dan Brouthers, Harmon Killebrew, Rickey Henderson, Billy Pierce, Kinston Indians, Three Rivers Stadium, Bill Lange, Calgary Cannons, Hugh Daily, Homer at the Bat This month's newsletter was designed and written by Wizardman, jj137, and Blackngold29. If you would like to contribute to future newsletters, please contact the Baseball WP outreach dept.

News from the diamond The 2008 opening round playoff matchups with be: Boston Red Sox vs. Los Angeles Angels Milwaukee Brewers vs. Philadelphia Phillies Los Angeles Dodgers vs. Chicago Cubs Chicago White Sox vs. Tampa Bay Rays Help to keep the articles of the postseason updated From the Editors We apologize for not sending out our August newsletter, we have tried to cover some events of the month in this issue. The playoffs have started! The Dodgers and Phillies have won their respective Division Series and will face off in the NL Championship Series. Both series in the American League have yet to be finished. Show your support for your favorite teams by keeping up with their season pages!

Unilateral move

Please see note at Talk:Cork_(city)#Unilateral_move. In short: your move was problematic for two reasons:

1. A long RM consensus discussion resulted in the current page name. You shouldn't override that consensus unilaterally - certainly without recourse to the talkpage or an RM procdure.
2. "Cork, Munster" is not an appropriate name - it has DAB issues with the County, and presumes that the city has some legal status in relation to the province. Which it doesn't.

I've therefore reverted your move. If you have any issues, please raise them on the article talk page. Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 15:51, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

John Carver (footballer)

Hi, I've reverted your move of John Carver (footballer) to John William Carver, because it ran counter to the naming conventions. WP:NCP#Qualifier between bracketing parentheses suggests using a bracketed "noun that describes the person", if such exists, and WP:NCP#Middle names and abbreviated names says specifically that "Adding middle names, or their abbreviations, merely for disambiguation purposes (that is: if this format of the name is not the commonly used one to refer to this person) is not advised." cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:08, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:St. Louis Blues roster navbox

Template:St. Louis Blues roster navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. —Krm500 18:28, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

football player moves

Could you please refrain from moving perfectly good dabs like (football player) and (American football player) to dabs like (American football) and (Canadian football). Per WP:NCP dabs should be a descriptor for the person rather than the sport and it is unnecessary and undesirable to be overly precise about the code of football in the dab if no other article concerns a person who is best known as a football player. DoubleBlue (Talk) 02:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• We've been over this and the answer is no. Take a look at the same page you site: "It is generally preferred to use a noun that describes the person, rather than an activity, genre, or affiliation (chemist, not chemistry). However, this can sometimes lead to awkward or overly-long disambiguations, in which case a shorter but still clear term should be used (baseball, not baseball player and coach)." Sorry, but you are wrong. Tavix (talk) 02:49, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

How is (American football) better than (football player)? DoubleBlue (Talk) 02:50, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Two words, my friend: Association football. Tavix (talk) 02:52, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

But if there is no other football player by the same name, it is irrelevant. One only needs more precision if there is more than one article with the same name about a person who is best known as a football player. Eagle Day (football player) is quite sensible. No other Eagle Day is best known as a football player. Eagle Day (Canadian football) is quite wrong. He is American, he played American football in college and the NFL and played Canadian football in the CFL. DoubleBlue (Talk) 02:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• And yet Eagle Day decided to be associated with Canadian football and played that sport. The name of the sport is officially "American football". In Canada, there are slightly different rules so it is officially "Canadian football". For simplicity, it is called football in US/Canada but everywhere else "football" refers to "Soccer". Since Misplaced Pages is universal, people from all over the globe need to understand that a person is playing "American football" rather than "Soccer/Association Football". Also, there needs to be a universal disambiguation for people who play American and/or Canadian football. When I first began to notice this, more than half of the disambiguations were (American football) so I went with that one instead of editing even more articles with (football player), which is more generic anyway. Tavix (talk) 03:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• I don't know what you are trying to say about Eagle Day but it is merely an example. More generic is the preferred dab. We are not writing a précis of the article in the dab; just permitting two or more articles to share the same name so it is unnecessary to disambiguate the disambiguator with the code of football. The point is that looking at the disambiguation page at the list of articles with the same name they can scroll down and choose the one they want. If the choices are a politician, golfer, football player, and an author, and they want the dude that used to play for the Miami Dolphins, they choose the football player. DoubleBlue (Talk) 03:12, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

First, I remind you that you have no rationale for moving (football player) dabs to (Canadian football) dabs. It completely fails the WP:NCP conventions. Dabs should describe the person not the sport. A common sense exception is made that in the case, for example, of a person who is best known both as a (baseball player and coach), that simply (baseball) is better. Placing an American who has played both American and Canadian football and currently plays in the CFL under a dab of (Canadian football) rather than (football player) when no other football player has the same name is the opposite of common sense and should follow the conventions and dab as (football player).

Regarding Robert Gordon. There is a soccer player named Robert Gordon so the dab is in question and I'd like to discuss it with you. I don't believe that (American football) is the best choice. First, there is the convention to describe the person rather than the sport. Second, I would argue that he is best known as a CFL player, though he did spend significant time with Arena football and played American football in college. I hesitate, then, to dab him as (CFL player), though it can be argued that is what he's best known for. I really think that (American football player) might be the best dab, actually. It identifies him as a football player and adds the descriptor "American" which, though it lacks any reference to his notable time in the CFL, could be interpreted to describing him, as an American and, at the same time, a code of football with which he has some connection. It's not perfect but, to go with the idea of common sense, I think the ambiguity of what American describes works here as an advantage. Another solution is to simply dab him as (football player) anyway since soccer players are always dabbed (footballer). I welcome your input on this. DoubleBlue (Talk) 06:49, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Re : Yeah, right. If you don't care then why are being so disruptive in moving nearly 400 pages for which you know there are objections? DoubleBlue (Talk) 04:35, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Hurricane Anna (1961)

Just to let you know, I moved the article back to its original title, as it is one of three hurricanes named Anna, and several more tropical storms. Cheers, –Juliancolton 00:03, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

• Okay, thanks. Didn't notice that when I moved it. Tavix (talk) 00:05, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation and Name pages

Hi, I notice that a month ago you moved Katrina (given name) to Katrina (disambiguation). I have now separated these pages. Name pages are not the same as disambiguation pages -- please see MOS:DABNAME. There are matters on which we do not yet have consensus at WP:WikiProject Anthroponymy, but one thing that is agreed is that "Name (disambiguation)" is never a good title for a Name page. I hope this is helpful.

You would also be very welcome to join the above WikiProject! - Fayenatic (talk) 14:29, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Steve Smith

Stop moving the articles, this is the only way that works for now. Per WP:COMMONNAME, the Panthers' Steve Smith's article cannot be located at "Stevonne Smith" because that is NOT his common name.►Chris Nelson 02:53, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

• NO! Lets say one of the Steve Smiths changed teams, or better yet so they are on the same team. What would become of that then? Also, look at WP:QUALIFER. It says that when possible, do not use proper nouns for parenthesis. Sometimes you have to make do when what's given to you. It's not my fault his real name is Stevonne.Tavix (talk) 03:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

No, that is not how it is done. I am an administrator and I have plenty of experience with this. First of all, full names should never be used unless it is the person's common name. Nobody calls Steve Smith "Stevonne Smith." They probably don't even know that's his real name. If the Panthers' Smith was a superstar (which he isn't), then just Steve Smith (American football) or Steve Smith (wide receiver) would be sufficient. However, both Steve Smiths (the Giants' and Panthers') are fairly well-known, they cannot be separated by using Amfoot or WR disambigs. In this case, you can use something like (born 1978), but you can also use the team name, which is done here. If they change teams, then you change the title. Simple as that. Pats1 /C 03:07, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

It's a messy situation, no doubt. But we simply cannot have an article located at Stevonne Smith with 99.9% of football fans do not know that is his real name.►Chris Nelson 03:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

• Whatever. It's really not that big of a deal to me, I just want to be consistent. When I made the change, I was thinking back to a dilema with two other Steve Smiths in ice hockey. In that one, one of them was Steve Smith (ice hockey), and the other guy his full name. Tavix (talk) 04:23, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Wow, it's quite amazing how many problems you're causing with page moves.►Chris Nelson 03:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Names of number articles

You moved 7744 (number) to 7744 and 9814072356 (number) to 9814072356. I have moved them back again. WP:NAME is very clear - "Articles about numbers and related meanings are at N (number) without commas, for example 1729 (number)". This convention is followed in the naming of all our number articles (see Category:Integers) and it would be a bad idea to start creating random exceptions. Gandalf61 (talk) 10:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Stop moving football player articles, please

Please do not use article names and disambiguation styles that violate naming conventions and disambiguation style guidelines, or are otherwise confusing, overspecific or unhelpful to the reader in any additional way. Thank you. (This notice constitutes a customized {{uw-mos2}} warning.)

You are a relatively new user here (about 13 months, from what I can tell), so it may be understandable that you have not fully absorbed every guideline, but you have been asked repeatedly by many parties to stop moving football player articles around to unhelpful names, and continuing to do so without resolving the dispute constitutes editwarring.

I'm sure you think these moves are helpful, but they are not. Take for example moving Eagle Day (football player) to Eagle Day (Canadian football); the result sounds like an article about a holiday relating to Canadian football, or perhaps a brand of football for use in playing Canadian football. Please read the guidelines on naming conventions for articles about people, disambiguation and disambiguation style.

The short version is that the shortest possible plain-English disambiguator should be used that identifies the person as a person, rather than labels them as relating to a field. E.g., "Jane Smith (chemist)", not "Jane Smith (chemistry)", and not "Jane Smith (organic chemist)" unless there are two Jane Smith chemists that must be disambiguated further, and certainly not "Jane Smith (organic chemistry)". There is some confusion in the sports article realm, with a few editors working on a few sports (only hockey, baseball and maybe another one, as far as I recall), who prefer things like "Bob Jones (baseball)", as if Bob Jones were a piece of sporting goods equipment, but they are in the minority, and certainly do not have consensus to push this truncated and confusing naming scheme on all sports articles.

At any rate, if you do not stop moving articles around against numerous voices of opposition, without gaining consensus for the changes you are pushing so hard, you are very likely to be reported to the Admin Noticeboard and blocked for disruptive editing.

PS: Herman "Eagle" Day also violates the general naming conventions, as 'Herman "Eagle" Day' is not a common, much less the most common, name for this article subject. No offense intended, but I would suggest familiarizing yourself more intimately with the naming conventions, and spending a considerable amount of time reading WP:RM and the debates it generates before moving any more pages at all, and otherwise focusing your time on editing instead of performing quasi-administrative tasks like article renames. It would also be helpful if you engaged in discussion at WT:SPORT, WT:NCP, and the more specific WikiProject(s) relating to any subject in which you wish to do large numbers of renames, or you are very likely to step on toes and generate further needless disputes. — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 03:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

PPS: Please note that the vast majority of material on your talk page consists of outspoken opposition (from, according to my count, 12 different parties) to your incautious page-moves. This should be much more than enough to indicate to you that you need to stop moving pages around. — SMcCandlish ‹(-¿-)› 03:48, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

What does it take for you to understand that you do not have consensus or policy for these irrational moves? Stop. DoubleBlue (talk) 00:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Probably a ban because there isn't a consensus to have it your way either. Tavix (talk) 00:33, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Polarbröd

For most big companies such as Polarbröd, sources can generally be found. If you see an article on a big company which does not have references, it is generally best to search for the company's name at http://news.google.com/archivesearch and at any other databases of newspaper articles that you may have access to through your school or public library, rather than to nominate it for deletion. -- Eastmain (talk) 16:56, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

• Okay, thanks for the advise. I will do so next time. Tavix (talk) 22:29, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

POINT

If someone (as many do) who insists that WP:OSE is a valid argument in AFDs wants to indicate other similarly-structured articles with the same or worse problems, then I have no problem AFDing those, as well (provided there is a valid reason for deletion). I see it more as speeding up the process of AFDing problematic articles rather than engaging in POINT, although I admit that was a tad pointish, especially when I basically lost my temper after dealing with three similar problematic AFDs right before Scrababble (which I made my apology clear by striking said comment). Cheers, MuZemike (talk) 02:32, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• Yeah, I understand. I like being controversial myself and have a good time with it. I didn't mention it in the article, but another reason I decided to keep Matchboxes was because it was AfDed before and it was kept, and the fact that there were reliable source(s). So there you go. Tavix (talk) 02:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

November 2008

Regarding your comments on User talk:ArmchairVexillologistDonLives!: Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. DoubleBlue (talk) 04:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• Hmm, still can't get over the football controversy? Tavix (talk) 04:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors. Assume that they are here to improve rather than harm Misplaced Pages. ShoesssS 04:48, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• That goes the same for you too. I am not out to harm Misplaced Pages despite what you may think. Tavix (talk) 04:49, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Move

I'm about to move Konstantin Volkov (athlete) to Konstantin Volkov as you requested. Please help out and fix the links pointing to the old page when I'm done. - Mgm| 11:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• Will do. Tavix (talk) 15:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Greatest movie performances

Tav, you really need to stop being so defensive during these discussions. In this case, I actually agree with you, but that's irrelevant. You'll find that people respect your opinion, even if they don't agree with it. If I've ever made a comment that seemed like I was insulting you in front of others, then I apologize. I don't set out to step on people's toes, but it happens. As you've probably seen by now, we often encounter many of the same people again and again in the AfD forum. We don't have to walk on eggshells, but we have to get along. Obviously, I can't agree with both sides in a discussion, but I respect that someone is weighing in with their opinion; and that's true of most of us. Sometimes, we disagree with your statements, but nobody looks down on you. People respect someone who stands up for what he believes in. Anyway, Happy Thankgsiving, and I'm sure I'll be seeing you in other discussions. Best wishes. Mandsford (talk) 16:04, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

• Okay, that is good advise. I'll keep that in mind next time. Happy Thanksgiving to you to. Tavix (talk) 16:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

List of places in Ceredigion

Thanks for the help with List of places in Ceredigion - merging the lists. I am not a big fan of lists, preferring nav boxes instead. I started a few before I realized just how many lists there were in project Wales. Argh. More list merging awaits if you're game! BTW I appreciate your work in missing Bible verses. Great contribution. ~Geaugagrrl 07:58, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• About the list of places in Ceredigion, I just found that after hitting "random article" and it looked merge worthy. Took me literally 30 seconds. If there are any more that need to be merged, either give me a list or do it yourself. About the Bible verses, that was fun to do. I'm glad you like it. Tavix (talk) 17:58, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

CANUSA

OK, well, I'm at the bottom of your page, and sorry about not substituting the information into the template that I used; I'm sure you've seen that before? Anyways, I'm not sure how to make the canusa games "notable", although I disagree with you that it needs to be deleted. Don't you agree that the information that I provided is important enough to be included in a worldwide encyclopedia? After all, these games have been going on for over 50 years. Please contact me and give me idea in how to improve my article; I do not want it to be deleted....I see that another creator in 2006 was also unsuccessful in making this page. Jimwilcox79 (talk) 23:46, 1 December 2008 (UTC)jimwilcox79

This is difficult, is it not? I'm having trouble... Jimwilcox79 (talk) 23:59, 1 December 2008 (UTC)jimwilcox79

How would I be able to find something FROM THAT POLICY that makes it notable, when there aren't even examples of what secondary sources are? please help....signed, frustrated. Jimwilcox79 (talk) 00:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)jimwilcox79