Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 04:37, 5 December 2008

Limia tridens male ... that a hypothesized land bridge may have allowed some fish species (example pictured) to migrate from South America to Cuba? ... that a Sunday afternoon phone call to Ken Battle laid the foundations for the Canadian Child Benefit program? ... that in the narrative epic Pem Nem, the union of two lovers is a metaphor for the union of the soul with God? ... that after becoming a born again Christian, soprano Jane Stuart Smith abandoned a successful opera career to pursue a life of service? ... that Singapore's first R-rated play was performed despite the police finding parts of it "offensive"? ... that the Filipino boy band SB19 considered disbandment after their debut single "Tilaluha" saw little success? ... that Richard Stratton's diplomatic career took him "from South America to Japan, and from Southern Africa to the foothills of the Himalayas"? ... that among the millions of prisoners of war murdered by the Germans during WWII there were also tens of thousands of their former allies, the Italians? ... that American football player Noah Knigga went viral for his last name and had to clarify its pronunciation? Archive Start a new article Nominate an article

This page is for nominations to appear in the "Did you know" section (reproduced on the right) on the Main Page.

Instructions

Using a DYK suggestion string (see below examples), list new suggestions in the candidate entries section below under the date the article was created or the expansion began (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged. Thanks for participating and please remember to check back for comments on your nomination.

DYK criteria

• DYK evaluation includes:

• Length - The Article should contain at least 1,500 characters in main body text (ignoring infoboxes, categories, references, lists, and tables). This is a mandatory minimum; in practice, articles having more than 1,500 characters of prose still may be rejected as too short, at the discretion of the selecting administrators.
• Verification - The DYK hook fact in the article needs an inline cite at the end of the sentence and the article in general should use inline, cited sources.
• Date - The new article should be no more than five days old and the expanded article should be expanded at least fivefold with new text within the last five days.

• Length

• DYK qualifying characters: To count the number of characters in a piece of text, you will need to use a JavaScript extension like User:Dr pda/prosesize.js (instructions on the talk page), a free website like this, or an external software program that has a character-counting feature. For example, if you are using Microsoft Word, select the text from the article page (or, in the case of "Did you know" nominations, this Talk page) – not the edit page containing Wikitext – then copy and paste it into a blank document. Click "Tools" ("Review" in Office 2007), then "Word Count", and note the "Characters (with spaces)" figure. Other word processing programs may have a similar feature. For Mac users, Apple has a Word counter widget available for Mac OS X 10.4 or later. Note: The character counts indicated on "Revision history" pages are not accurate for DYK purposes as they include categories, infoboxes and similar text in articles, and comments and signatures in hooks on this page.
• Lists: Proposed lists need 1,500+ characters of prose text. The listed items themselves are not counted as part the the 1,500 DYK qualifying characters

• Verification

• Suggested facts (the 'hook') should be:
  1. interesting to draw in a variety of readers,
  2. short and concise (fewer than about 200 characters, including spaces),
  3. neutral,
  4. definite facts that are mentioned in the article, and
  5. always cited in the article with an inline citation.
• Please note that hooks are subject without notice to copyediting as they move to the main page. The nature of the DYK process makes it impractical to consult users over every such edit. In particular, hooks will be shortened if they are deemed too long: the 200-character limit is an outside limit not a recommended length. Also, watch the suggestions page to ensure that no issues have been raised about your hook, because if you do not respond to issues raised your hook may not be featured at all.
• Articles on living individuals must be carefully checked to ensure that no unsourced or poorly sourced negative material is included. Articles and hooks which focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided.

• Other issues

• Pictures: Pictures accompanying the DYK hook should be:
  1. freely licensed suitably and freely (PD, GFDL, CC etc) licensed (NOT fair use) because the main page can only have freely licensed pictures;
  2. suitable, attractive, and interesting at a 100x100px-wide resolution;
  3. already in the article; and
  4. relevant to the article.

• Sounds: Sounds accompanying the DYK hook should have similar qualities to pictures, and should be formatted using {{DYK Listen|filename.ogg|Brief description}}

Please use one of the strings below to post your DYK nomination, using the "author" and "nominator" fields to identify the users who should receive credit for their contributions if the hook is featured on the main page.

1. Nom without image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= }}
2. Nom with image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= | image= | caption= }}

   To include more than one new or expanded article in a single hook: |article2= |article3= |article4= | (etc)

   To include more than one author: |author2= |author3= | (etc)

   To include alternate hooks: |ALT1= |ALT2= | (etc)

   To add a comment: |comment=

   To add the article you reviewed: |reviewed=

Do not wikilink the article title, or the author username field; the template will wikilink them automatically. Do wikilink the article title in the hook field, however.
Do not add a section heading if you are using the template; the template will add one for you.
Do not include a signature (~~~~) after the template.
Do not use non-free images in your hook suggestion.

• When saving your suggestion, please add the name of the suggested article to your edit summary.
• Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
• If you nominate someone else's article, you can use {{subst:DYKNom}} to notify them. Usage: {{subst:DYKNom|Article name|January 9}} Thanks, ~~~~

Symbols

If you want to confirm that an article is ready to be placed on a later update, or that there is an issue with the article or hook, you may use the following symbols (optional) to point the issues out:

• {{subst:DYKtick}}
• {{subst:DYKtickAGF}}
• {{subst:DYK?}}
• {{subst:DYK?no}}
• {{subst:DYKno}}
• {{subst:DYK?again}}

You may notify the nominator of problems with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}}

Please consider using {{subst:DYKproblem}} on the user's talk page, in case they do not notice if there is an issue.

Next update

DYK queue status There are currently 5 filled queues. Humans, please consider promoting a prep to queue if you have the time! v t e Earliest time for next DYK update: 00:00, 10 January 2025 (UTC) Current time: 21:33, 9 January 2025 (UTC) Update frequency: once every 12 hours Last updated: 9 hours ago( verify reset purge )

Backlogged?

This page often seems to be backlogged. If the DYK template has not been updated for substantially more than 6 hours, it may be useful to attract the attention of one of the administrators who regularly updates the template. See the page Misplaced Pages:Did you know/Admins for a list of administrators who have volunteered to help with this project.

Candidate entries

Articles created/expanded on December 5

Scott Smith (mayor)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 03:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 4

De obsessione Dunelmi

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• For extra confidence, see this page, which is the same as Gransden, p. 122 on the edition I have physically. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 00:11, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Mauritius Ferber

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:17, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

May I suggest adding after Ferber (pictured), and this image? Strawless (talk) 23:57, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. -- Matthead  Discuß   01:11, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Eivind Reiten

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:01, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Jane Couch

Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

What's the point behind writing "The Fleetwood Assassin" in bold? Also, it would, afaict, be more grammatically correct to add another comma before "is". Dahn (talk) 22:26, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Better? (and have asked her to release an image for us) --Rodhullandemu 22:56, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

WHAL (AM)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hook, length and reference okay. Jolly Ω Janner 22:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Custom harvesting

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Which China? The old Republic of China? The People's Republic of China? (I presume it is not Quing China or earlier, since the article appears to be talking about the interwar and later.) Dahn (talk) 21:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
  • PRC -- link fixed. howcheng {chat} 23:51, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
    • There should probably be a little more specificity about the time period. I added "in the late 20th century" to the article, just taking a guess based on what was implied in the source; I think the hook should say something like that, as well. —Politizer /_contribs 00:15, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Added. howcheng {chat} 03:30, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
        • Verified. —Politizer /_contribs 03:38, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Wlodawa Synagogue

Baroque synagogue in Polish city survived Nazis and Communism with it's magnificent Torah Ark intact. The Ark is three stories high, magnificently carved and painted in vibrant colors. It is unusual in that it is decorated with the musical instruments of the eightennth century to illustrate a passage form Psalms about the instruments played in the ancient Temple.Historicist (talk) 19:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Historicist

Hm... what to highlight first? That the hook does not comply with any of the format instructions at the top of this page? That it uses peacock terms? That "it's" is actually an "its" and "eightennth" is just not an English word? That the article has severe format problems? I don't mean to bring the editor-nominator down, but I think he or she should consider reading up on wikipedia norms and asking more experienced users for assistance on format issues. This could be a good entry, it is not one just yet. Dahn (talk) 21:01, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh and, btw: the article should not be titled Wlodawa Synagogue, but Włodawa Synagogue. Dahn (talk) 21:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Lympne Airport

• ... that although only 170 cars were carried between Lympne and Le Touquet airfields in 1948, the service was so successful that over 13,000 vehicles were carried in 1951? New article created and self-nom on 4 December by Mjroots (talk)

• A very impressive and comprehensive new article! However, there are a few issues that need to be addressed here. First, the hook is a little confusing. I think it needs to mention something more explicitly about "aerial car ferry service" since when reading the hook it is actually not very clear that this is what is meant here. Probably replacing the word "service" in the hook by "aerial car ferry service" would work. Second, the paragraph in the article where the hook-related material is discussed needs a few extra citations. The reference supporting the hook is ref no 16 in the article. However, at the moment this reference is only cited at the end of the paragraph. Per DYK rules, this reference needs to be cited in the actual sentences that contain the hook fact. Thus, even though it means certain redundancy, a citation of this reference needs to be added to the two other sentences in the paragraph: the one mentioning 170 cars and the one mentioning 13,000 cars. Third, and this is a really minor point, I think that ref no 16 needs to be supplied with the title of the article from the Flight magazine that is being cited ("Bridging the English Channel"). Nsk92 (talk) 02:36, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Emerson Rodwell

• ... that Emerson Rodwell, a former captain of the Tasmanian Tigers cricket team, scored 11,542 runs and took 337 wickets in his club career, as well as earning the Military Medal in Borneo during World War II? Self-Nom. Robert Fleming (talk) 15:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hook length, at 205 characters, is too big; should be less than 200. I would advise removing "in Borneo", but it's a matter of opinion. Jolly Ω Janner 19:14, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Royal Page Davidson and Harlan Page Davidson and Davidson-Duryea gun carriage and Davidson Auto Battery armored car and Davidson-Cadillac armored car

• ... that Royal Page Davidson, son of Northwestern Military Academy founder Harlan Page Davidson, invented the first military car, lightly armored car and fully armored car (pictured) in the U.S.? Five articles, Davidson articles new, others expanded 5 fold, self nominated by --Doug Coldwell 14:19, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
  • minor change to hook. —Politizer /_contribs 14:29, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Wow. Anyway, article histories and expansions are all good, and they all appear to be well-referenced; I'll check into the hook in a moment. —Politizer /_contribs 14:31, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Can't find verification (or even mention) of the Davidson Auto Battery armored car having been the first lightly armored vehicle. Everything else looks fine. —Politizer /_contribs 14:34, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• I'll see if I can answer your question. In the inline reference "Davidson Auto battery" it says In 1900 a Colonel Davidson and students at the Northwestern Military and Naval Academy, Lake Geneva, Wisconsin built a number of lightly armoured cars... In the inline reference in the book "The American Military Armored Car", by A.J. Clemens it says on page 11 The Davidson Durryea Semi-Armoured car mounted a Colt automatic gun. Here are additional references on Clymer's book refering to "semi-armored." Possible ALT hook if the above is not satisfactory:

• Alt ... that Royal Page Davidson, son of Northwestern Military Academy founder Harlan Page Davidson, invented the first military car and fully armored car (pictured) and a semi-armored car in the U.S.? --Doug Coldwell 16:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Actually, I wasn't concerned about calling it "semi-armored" or "lightly armored," but with the claim that it was the first. (Sorry I didn't make that clearer in my original message.) I don't doubt that it was, I just want to make sure there's a source for it in the text. —Politizer /_contribs 18:16, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Now I understand. Can not actually find where it says first "semi-armored" car, so perhaps we might have to go with an ALT - to try to get in all five articles (goal, as you can see by now). Here are some possible ALT choices:

• ALT... that Royal Page Davidson, son of Northwestern Military Academy founder Harlan Page Davidson, invented first U.S. military car and fully armored car (pictured) as well as a lightly armored car?
• ALT... that Royal Page Davidson, son of Northwestern Military Academy founder Harlan Page Davidson, invented the first U.S. military car and fully armored car (pictured) - as well as a light armored car?
• ALT... that Royal Page Davidson, son of Northwestern Military Academy founder Harlan Page Davidson, invented the first U.S. military car and fully armored car (pictured) - as well as a semi-armored car?
• ALT... that Royal Page Davidson, son of Northwestern Military Academy founder Harlan Page Davidson, designed a light-armored car and invented first U.S. military car and fully armored car (pictured)?
• ALT... that Royal Page Davidson, son of Northwestern Military Academy founder Harlan Page Davidson, designed a semi-armored car and invented first U.S. military car and fully armored car (pictured)? --Doug Coldwell 18:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Moonlight Brewing Company

Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length, hook and verifiability okay. Jolly Ω Janner 19:30, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

The Gypsies (poem)

Template:DYKsuggestion Expanded 5x by Zorba the Geek, Self-Nom. Zorba the Geek (talk) 05:26, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Date and 5x+ expansion verified. There is a minor issue with the hook. The sentence supporting the hook in the article, which occurs in the lead paragraph is: "The poem has inspired at least eighteen operas and several ballets" (with a footnote to ref no. 4). However, this sentence does not explicitly mention Rachmaninoff's Aleko, nor is Rachmaninoff mentioned anywhere else in the article. Of course, on one hand, it is an undisputed fact that the opera Aleko is an adaptation of Pushkin's poem. On the other hand, DYK rules do require that the hook statement be explicitly supported by a sentence in the article, with a footnote. I suggest modifying the relevant sentence in the article in the lead paragraph to explicitly mention the opera Aleko there. also, I corrected a wikilink in the hook from Aleko (the car) to Aleko (the opera). Nsk92 (talk) 14:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Also, the relevant sentence in the article's lead paragraph needs to mention something about at least six ballets rather than just "several ballets", to correspond to the hook (or the hook could say "several" instead of "at least six"). Nsk92 (talk) 14:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
    • The sentence that the hook links to is under "Adaptations" and Rakhmaninov is mentioned again there. The lead part of the article was simply meant to introduce the idea that there had been many adaptations, while the "Adaptations" sections gives more specifics. Zorba the Geek (talk) 16:05, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Ah, OK, sorry, I missed it the first time around. Entry verified. Nsk92 (talk) 16:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

George Hardy (labor leader)

• ... that under George Hardy, SEIU grew to 935,000 members and became the fifth-largest affiliate in the AFL-CIO? - new article (selfnom) Tim1965 (talk) 04:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

List of Washington Capitals head coaches

• ... that none of the fourteen Washington Capitals head coaches have been elected into the Hockey Hall of Fame as a coach? 5X expansion, Self-Nom by -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 03:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC).

Mercury Monterey

Template:DYKsuggestion at 02:08, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Danville Political Club

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 3

U-48 class submarine, U-50 class submarine, U-52 class submarine

Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Note: U-50 class submarine and U-52 class submarine were both created on 4 December. — Bellhalla (talk) 21:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Lac-Simon, Outaouais, Quebec

Template:DYKsuggestion at 17:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Magosternarchus

Template:DYKsuggestion 13:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Gay Power, Gay Politics

... that when interviewed for the 1980 CBS show Gay Power, Gay Politics then-mayor of San Francisco Dianne Feinstein threw reporter George Crile out of her office after he had asked just one question? OR
... that the National News Council ruled that CBS had misrepresented the LGBT community in its 1980 documentary Gay Power, Gay Politics by reinforcing stereotypes? - self-nomination, article moved into main space this date. Otto4711 (talk) 04:39, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

For the first hook -- AGF for the off-Wiki reference (good article, too!). Ecoleetage (talk) 14:16, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Otto4711 (talk) 20:08, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in, but I think the second hook is better. I have verified it too: in fact a googlebooks preview of the page from the book of Alwood used as reference for the hook is available online . The first hook, while factually accurate and supported by the reference, seems to be too negative in view of the BLP content involved. One of the DYK rules says:"Articles and hooks which focus on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided". Therefore I think the second hook, which avoids this problem and also checks out, is preferable. Nsk92 (talk) 01:06, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Crile is not a living individual; as for Feinstein, while I'm not a big fan on hers, I think her throwing Crile out after such an offensive comment actually appears to reflect pretty well on her. (Assuming people click through to see the reason why she threw him out.) —Politizer /_contribs 01:13, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I did mean Feinstein when I raised the BLP issue. I think that many people in fact will not click on the link when they see such a hook and I am not sure how many readers will share your opinion that her actions were commendable. I think the hook itself needs to be reasonably neutral and, in BLP cases, not elicit an immediate angry reaction on the part of the reader (which may or may not be moderated upon reading the article). This hook, which does not provide sufficient context for the episode in question (nor could it, given the 200 character length constraint) and I think most reasonable people will feel anger towards the person mentioned (Feinstein) when reading such a hook. Especially since there is another hook here that does not have these problems, I really think the second hook should be used in this case. Nsk92 (talk) 01:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

You're probably right. Although personally, when I saw the hook, even before I had read the article, my immediate reaction was not to think "Man that Feinstein, what a bitch," but "wow that guy must have been a real douche to get kicked out so fast, I wonder what he did...". But I guess there's no way to gauge how people other than me will react. —Politizer /_contribs 01:58, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Paco Bienzobas

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:08, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. Chamal 12:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

St Margaret's Church, Ifield

Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:34, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Johnny Warsap

Template:DYKsuggestion at 22:16, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

David Rubinger

Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:36, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. – RyanCross (talk) 06:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Embryological origins of the mouth and anus

Template:DYKsuggestion New article, self-nom at 20:03, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Ooh, this is going to be fun.... I personally don't find it offensive, but I think a lot of people will be hesitant to put anus-related stuff on the front page. Also, as a side thing, using first-person in the hook ("our") should probably be avoided. Anyway, I'll think about this one a bit, but in the meantime it might be good to suggest one or two alternate hooks (although I'm not sure if it's possible to avoid having explicit anus stuff in the hook, given the subject matter of the article). —Politizer /_contribs 20:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I've amended the hook; and I hope that this important scientific issue isn't censored because it refers to an anatomical organ. Martin (Smith609 – Talk) 20:10, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not censorship. There are frequently issues of decorum regarding what goes on the front page (just recently at DYK we've had large debates over hooks about pornographic films; on April Fool's Day 2008 people decided not to put an image of a bird defecating on the front page; and the featured article on Jenna Jameson or whatever her name is has never been featured on the front page because of its subject matter), but that doesn't mean the article isn't valuable. It's a good article to have in the encyclopedia, but we have to be careful how we present it to the front page. As I meant to imply in my first comment (by asking for alternate hooks), I would like to see this article featured on the front page, but I also want to make sure we adhere to a standard of decorum so that no one ends up creating a big stink over this. Please do not go accusing people of censorship, because that will just sour the entire discussion and that's not fun for anyone. —Politizer /_contribs 20:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Justified censorship is still censorship. But perhaps we can trust readers not to blush and titter.--Wetman (talk) 22:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict)No one is saying we should blot this article out of Misplaced Pages so it never sees the sun. I'm just saying there are some articles that some people think we shouldn't shout about from the rooftops (by putting them on the main page). They exist and they're good sources of information and they should remain on Misplaced Pages, but that doesn't mean people should go out of their way to put them prominently on the front page.

If you didn't notice already, I already said that I don't find this offensive. But I am aware that different people have different sensitivities, and judging by the conversations that surrounding recent pornography-related hooks I would not be surprised if some DYK reviewers would be at least a tiny bit concerned about this hook. I'm just trying to address those concerns, so don't go around calling me or anyone else at DYK a censor. Deleting an article from Misplaced Pages because it's offensive is censorship; deciding not to stick it on the front page is not.

I'm beginning to think there must be some DYK version of Godwin's Law. "As the number of DYK nominations grows, the probability of someone shouting 'Censorship!' approaches 1." Jesus christ. —Politizer /_contribs 22:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

(addendum) And, for the record, I'm not trying to keep your article from the front page. When this started I was just trying to get you to propose a hook that would cause as little controversy as possible. —Politizer /_contribs 22:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that this article looks at the topic of embryogenesis from a juvenile angle ("farts and burps"). The underlying topic has legitimacy, but not its packaging in this particular article. It's "interesting" that the article does not link to embryology, embryogenesis, or similar related articles that cover (or should cover) the same territory. I think the article probably is a candidate for deletion or merger, not for featuring on the main page. --Orlady (talk) 22:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Per the article, in humans the anus forms first then burrows through to become the mouth at the other end. So the hook is currently ass-backwards. (don't hit me!) Otto4711 (talk) 07:25, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

  The formation of the digestive tract is the key morphological criterion for separating the two major clades of bilaterian, the protostomes and deuterostomes. There are a number of conflicting views and it is an active area of research. I'm a palaeontologist (for whom the distinction is very important) and don't have an embryological background, so feel free to introduce related wikilinks where they are necessary. Therefore I take strong exception to the anything about the article being termed "juvenile". From what you say, it seems to follow that that an article about colon cancer would be juvenile. I don't think that people afflicted with that disease tend to go around tittering about it.

  In any case, the discussion seems to have become sidetracked. The article relates to an important theme in science that would otherwise have to be duplicated at protostome, deuterostome, bilaterian, urbilaterian and probably a few embryology pages, so there can be no case for its deletion. I can't see anybody taking offence at seeing the anatomical term "anus" in an encyclopaedia. And the DYK rules don't seem to mention what sort of article is permitted. (In fact, scientific articles tend to be under-represented). Putting it on the front page might bring it to the attention of an embryologist who would be willing to make large improvements to the scope of the article. Does anyone have a concrete reason to oppose the nomination, or an alternative hook to suggest? Martin (Smith609 – Talk) 18:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Ian Chapman

Template:DYKsuggestion at 11:32, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length, creation date, and fact referencing verified. JamieS93 15:56, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Hall/Nimbus Station

Template:DYKsuggestion

The part that stood out to me was that commuter rail is being built in Oregon --NE2 22:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, odd, but I thought too similar to the Wilsonville Station DYK. Aboutmovies (talk) 03:21, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Cornelis Janssens van Ceulen

Template:DYKsuggestion

Scott Thompson Baker

Template:DYKsuggestion Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 07:19, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• P.S. The article's text, aside from the references, the chapters, or anything else, is 1604 bytes. Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 23:04, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Moduin

Template:DYKsuggestion at 05:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• No inline citation for that hook, and I don't even really know what it means anyway. —Politizer /_contribs 05:54, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Footnote 7? And if you don't know what the "Carolingian Renaissance" is, click the link. If it's "Golden Rome" (a quotation in quotation marks) that troubles you, click the link. I would have thought that renaissance=rebirth to all but children today, but I know I'm probably wrong, so go ahead and reword it. Srnec (talk) 06:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not a problem with the terms you used (don't worry, I know what "renaissance" means, for real), it's just that I really don't understand the point the hook is trying to make. "writes about the rebirth of 'Golden Rome'" would be clearer than "refers to the rebirth of 'Golden Rome' during his time," if that is still accurate. —Politizer /_contribs 06:05, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't get the difference between "writes about" and "refers to". The point I was trying to make was that Moduin explicitly refers to a rebirth of Classical (Golden) Rome during the Carolingian Renaissance(=Rebirth). Maybe you can find a better, but still terse, way of putting this. Srnec (talk) 06:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

In general, one "refers" to something that is already a given (so when you encounter "refers to," you expect it to be something that you're already aware of and have heard about). But since "Golden Rome" is unclear and I don't really know what it is, the use of "refers to" there makes the whole proposition a little confusing for me. I don't know if that helps. —Politizer /_contribs 06:19, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Mentions? Srnec (talk) 06:34, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

David M. Jones

Template:DYKsuggestion at 04:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Alt 1: "... that U.S. Air Force Major General David M. Jones led the digging team for the "Harry" tunnel used in the Great Escape? — ERcheck (talk) 04:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• NB: Article incorporates PD text. —Politizer /_contribs 06:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• While it does incorporate some public domain text from the U.S. military, it is not a verbatim copy, but takes information from a number of sources. — ERcheck (talk) 01:41, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• Using someone else's text is using someone else's text, whether it's copied verbatim or tweaked around a bit. It's not a problem for DYK because we have no rules against it; it's just something I point out when I notice it. —Politizer /_contribs 01:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Medicamina Faciei Femineae

Template:DYKsuggestion at 02:54, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• I can only get the first page of the JSTOR article this is cited to (ref 10), but the language in that page suggests that Medicamina Faciei Femineae has been pretty much ignored for most of the modern era. —Politizer /_contribs 03:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure if I understand your concerns. Can you please be more specific? Also if it would be helpful, I can send you a PDF of the article. The poem has not been ignored in the modern era, though most of what has been written about it is philological rather than cosmetological. :) Aramgar (talk)

I just want to make sure the article really does say that those materials are still used today. For the purposes of the hook, we don't really care what the article says about the poem itself; only what the article says about those facial ingredients. The best thing you can do, rather than sending me a PDF (although you are certainly welcome to do that as well; you can e-mail me from my userpage) would be to find the relevant page number and quotation in the source article, and include that quotation in the ref given. —Politizer /_contribs 06:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry but I have discovered WP email does not support attachments. The article contains many dozens of examples of substances mentioned by Ovid that are used in modern cosmetics between pp. 383 and 390. That's what the whole article is about. Is there not a way to take this on faith? It's a reputable author, writing in a reputable publication, posted by an established editor. Aramgar (talk) 06:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not doubting the reputability of the author and the publisher, I just wanted to make sure that the source was being interpreted correctly. If you say that information is in the source, I will trust you without looking at the source myself, but I do still think the article needs to have a reference to the exact page number(s) where that information is located in the article, and either a quotation of the relevant material or at least a list of the different materials that are identified in the article. Once that information is all given in the ref, I can verify this. —Politizer /_contribs 07:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

You want to make "sure that the source was being interpreted correctly"? Aramgar (talk) 12:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

(outdent)I took a look at the article and the reference and added some details that can be cited to a specific page. Does this help clear matters up sufficiently? Kafka Liz (talk) 14:50, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It looks fine to me now. Verified with offline ref accepted in good faith. —Politizer /_contribs 14:55, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Excellent. Thank you, Politizer, and please let me or Aramgar know if there are any other concerns. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 14:59, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Jose C. Abriol

Template:DYKsuggestion at 01:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• No inline citation for that. —Politizer /_contribs 03:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• In-line citation provided as requested. - AnakngAraw (talk) 03:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Alt hook: *... that among the works of Jose C. Abriol, a priest from the Philippines, is the very first translation of the complete books of the Catholic Bible into Tagalog? - AnakngAraw (talk) 03:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Both hooks now verified; I would also suggest the shorter ALT3: ... that Jose C. Abriol was the first person to translate the Catholic Bible into Tagalog? —Politizer /_contribs 04:02, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• As an aside, I am somewhat concerned about the fact that the article relies almost entirely on one source. It's not enough to bar this from DYK, but if you can add more sources before this hits the main page it would be greatly appreciated. —Politizer /_contribs 04:02, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

 Done I added additional information and sources on the page as requested. - AnakngAraw (talk) 05:30, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Please gentlemen: Catholic leads nowhere relevant for this article. Try "Catholic". And, in the future, please make sure what your links lead to before disseminating them. Thanks. Dahn (talk) 21:57, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. —Politizer /_contribs 22:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Mesa Arizona Easter Pageant

Template:DYKsuggestion at 02:08, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

You may want to rewrite that hook -- the pageant bills itself as the largest, which is a bit of a difference. Plus, that first reference from Business Wire is a self-promotional press release. Thanks. Ecoleetage (talk) 03:30, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• I have assuaged the citation issue and provided an alternate hook that may address your concern while being more interesting. Thanks! --Eustress (talk) 05:54, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
• ALT: ... that Deuce Lutui, offensive lineman for the NFL's Arizona Cardinals, played the role of a Roman soldier in the Mesa Arizona Easter Pageant? --Eustress (talk) 04:24, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Everything looks ok to me. I would also suggest another hook (to put the focus on the pageant, rather than on the football guy): ALT2: ... that one of the past participants in the Mesa Arizona Easter Pageant was Deuce Lutui, offensive lineman for the NFL's Arizona Cardinals? —Politizer /_contribs 06:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for the evaluation. Here's my final suggestion: ALT3: ... that one of the Roman soliders in the Mesa Arizona Easter Pageant Jesus the Christ was played by NFL offensive lineman Deuce Lutui?

• Both ALT2 and ALT3 are fine with me. —Politizer /_contribs 07:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Ulster cherry

• ... that the Ulster cherry is named after Ulster County, New York, a region where sweet cherries are commercially produced? (New article, self-nom) Ecoleetage (talk) 00:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. – RyanCross (talk) 00:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Juke Joint (1947 film)

• ... that Juke Joint (1947) was considered a lost film until a print was located in a Tyler, Texas, warehouse in 1983? (New article, self-nom) Ecoleetage (talk) 03:03, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. – RyanCross (talk) 03:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

John Brooks Leavitt

Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 06:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 2

Edwin Donayre

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:43, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Akutan Zero

Template:DYKsuggestion

Ideational apraxia

Template:DYKsuggestion at 12:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Helmut Friedlaender

Template:DYKsuggestion at 00:39, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Cicero wasn't alive in 1465, so ALT:... that after Helmut Friedlaender had over 500 books auctioned off in 2001, including a book by Cicero reprinted in 1465 that sold for $666,000, he repurchased some to ensure they had a good home? Art LaPella (talk) 03:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hook has been reworded to help clarify that this was a printing of a work by Cicero, whose death predated the printing press by a couple of years or so, and not one of his then-current bestsellers.

Lawrence E. Glendenin and Charles D. Coryell

Template:DYKsuggestion Orlady (talk) at 17:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Alt wording: ... that chemists Jacob A. Marinsky, Lawrence E. Glendenin and Charles D. Coryell discovered the element promethium in 1945 while working for the Manhattan Project? --Orlady (talk) 22:54, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Valley of Mexico

Template:DYKsuggestion at 10:37, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• The first hook reads better IMHO. --Victor12 (talk) 19:47, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Streptomyces griseus

Template:DYKsuggestion at 10:37, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

U-27 class submarine (Austria-Hungary)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length and history verified, with offline ref accepted in good faith. Tweaked the hook to make it super. —Politizer /_contribs 06:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for the tweak. It was late… — Bellhalla (talk) 16:26, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Bovista dermoxantha

Template:DYKsuggestion

• There is only a reference at the end of the paragraph, not near the hook fact. Also, could you format the footnotes with relevant author/title/date/publisher/accessdate information? (Right now several of them are bare URLs.) —Politizer /_contribs 15:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Mike Trusson

Template:DYKsuggestion at 13:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT: ... that after retiring as a footballer, Mike Trusson worked as marketing manager for a football-themed restaurant in London? --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The second hook is more streamlined -- good article! Ecoleetage (talk) 14:19, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

British Bulldog revolver

Template:DYKsuggestion at 08:31, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

De-italicised. (No need.) --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length, date good. Offline ref accepted AGF. Chamal 13:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Gemstone irradiation

Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 06:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Offline ref accepted in good faith. Length, date fine. Chamal 12:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I suggest putting this hook in present tense:

• ... that gemstone irradiation processes enable the creation of certain gemstone colors that do not exist or are extremely rare in nature?

--Orlady (talk) 18:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Gregory Balestrero

Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 06:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 1

Gilwell Ada's Hoeve

Template:DYKsuggestion at 23:00, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• meets requirements as far as I can tell. First ref is also in English. Wim is a highly reliable Dutch editor who verified the refs too. Support. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:04, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
• Several issues with this entry. The reference cited to support the hook (footnote no. 2 in the article), is this site I don't read Dutch but it does not seem to me like the content of this reference supports the hook. In particular, I don't see the date 1923 appear anywhere at the page. Similarly, I do not see the word "Gilwell" appear there. Second, I would like to understand what exactly the site is. It has the appearance of a personal webpage (although again I may be wrong as I don't read Dutch) in which case this reference most likely would not qualify as WP:RS. Perhaps the supporting nominator or the article creator can comment on this? Or someone else Dutch-speaking here? Nsk92 (talk) 02:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

"Piet Kroonenbergs Padvinderskroniek" is a collection of documents made by an official historian, Piet J. Kroonenberg, of the World Organization of the Scout Movement. Those documents are among the most reliable sources on Scouting. --Egel _Reaction? 13:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. I am still not clear on the nature of this website. Is it his personal webpage? Or is it a subpage of the website of the World Organization of the Scout Movement? In the latter case, it would probably be acceptable per WP:RS but in the former I think not. Most scholars, both in sciences and humanities, have personal websites that contain some as yet unpublished research, preprints, etc. My understanding is that such personal webpages should generally not be used for WP:RS purposes (at any rate not as a main ref for a DYK hook, where WP:V standards are supposed to be quite stringent) until the research in question is actually published. Also, I am still not clear on the issue of content. Is there anything on the webpage in question (and if yes, what exactly) that directly confirms the information given in the hook? As I said, I do not see the terms from the hook like "1923", "Gilwell" and "Hoeve" appear on the webpage given as ref. If there is a further subpage there that actually contains the relevant info, perhaps that should be linked instead. Nsk92 (talk) 15:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you like this link better as starting point, a page on the site of Scouting Nederland. And a link with the terms from the hook like "1923", "Gilwell" and "Hoeve" Image:1ste_Gillwell_Leiderscursus.jpg. I have changed the ref to a document in staid. --Egel _Reaction? 16:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

If it is the website of the national scouting organization, then I think it would be fine as a source for a historical fact about scouting. However, the link does need to contain information explicitly supporting the statement as given in the hook. It is unclear to me whether or not the webpage does contain such information. If yes, could you comment a bit more on where and how it is supported there? If not and there is a further subpage of the Scouting Nederland that contains the relevant info, then such a subpage should be used as a reference instead. Thanks, Nsk92 (talk) 16:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• found evidence of earlier Wood Badge Scouting leadership training organized outside of the United Kingdom / British Empire, easter 1923 in Cappy and Chamarande, France . Inside the British Empire but outside the United Kingdom was Gilwell Park, Victoria, Australia in 1920--Egel _Reaction? 17:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Golf in Scotland

Template:DYKsuggestion at 14:17, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Yip Pin Xiu

Template:DYKsuggestion at 03:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• First hook verified (I shortened it a little): date and length of the article OK, off-line refs accepted. I would suggest that the nominator look for on-line links for the sources provided. My impression is that several of these sources are in fact avialable electronically, e.g. footnote no. 3. Nsk92 (talk) 11:55, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• For grammar, it should be "won a gold and a silver medal" or "won a gold medal and a silver medal" or "won gold and silver medals". Art LaPella (talk) 04:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT... that Singaporean swimmer Yip Pin Xiu won two medals at the 2008 Summer Paralympics, sparking a nationwide discussion about the treatment and recognition of disabled athletes in Singapore? (188 characters)

List of WWF Light Heavyweight Champions

• ... that at 826 days, Villano III has the longest reign as WWF Light Heavyweight Champion? (Five fold expansion, )--SRX 22:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

May not be a breaker, but it's worth pointing out that the championship is not currently listed as an achievement on Villano III's page GTD 22:31, 2 December 2008 (UTC)Scrub that, it does and it doesn't... GTD 22:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

What is a breaker is that it's not even close to a five-fold expansion. More than 10,000 for about 18 months, 14,577 now. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 22:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Well that's because of the list formatting that was changed and many parameters that were taken out, but I expanded the lead at least 4 times of what it originally was, which was like 3 sentences.--SRX 22:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I count 709 to 2826 character expansion for the prose (i.e. the lede) which falls short of 5x709 = 3545 by quite a long way I'm afraid. Olaf Davis | Talk 18:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, oh well then.--SRX 21:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Havmanden class submarine (1911)

Template:DYKsuggestion at 21:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• Offline ref accepted in good faith. Length, date fine. Chamal 13:04, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

List of ECW Television Champions

• ... that at 700 days, Rob Van Dam had the longest ECW Television Championship reign? (Five fold expansion )--SRX 21:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Verified. Ecoleetage (talk) 14:21, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Doris Dungey

Template:DYKsuggestion

Ecoleetage (talk) 14:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Alexandru Macedonski

Template:DYKsuggestion

Note: there are other facts in the article that could make for an interesting hook: him supposedly being the first modern European to have used free verse; his enthusiasm for cycling; his bitter debates with other writers; him being generally seen as one of the two greatest Romanian poets etc etc. So feel free to rework the hook or create others, but please let me know before you do. Dahn (talk) 01:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Erm, is there any reason why this, unlike articles before and after it, is still being ignored? Dahn (talk) 21:18, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• For the same reason several articles listed under the same date have been ignored so far. Please see "Unwritten" Rule H1. The time to worry is when you get a negative comment, not when you are ignored. Art LaPella (talk) 04:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Ascot-Pullin 500

Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Without all the references, the article is too short. Please expand. Cheers. Imperat§ r 22:35, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, the reference for the hook fact is a dead link. And therefore, I also don't know if "ohv" should be linked to overhead valve or off highway vehicle ("ohv single" does need an explanation). Art LaPella (talk) 01:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The image used may not be copyright-free: a bot transferred it from Dutch wikipedia, that's as far back as licensing info goes. Dahn (talk) 02:40, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Licence is PD-OUD in dutch, which is PD-Old in English. Mjroots (talk) 17:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but that is just a vague claim: no author is cited (even though he would have to be dead for 70 years for that to license to apply, and even though the period cited does not make it unlikely for the author to have died less than 70 years ago); also, no publishing context is given. AGF or no AGF, just because they tagged doesn't mean they know for sure. The likelihood that someone will care even if this is in breach of copyright is just about 0, but no copyrighted material makes it to the front page as a rule. Dahn (talk) 06:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I've expanded the article to 3,366 bytes, put over head valve in full and checked the link which for some reason wasn't working but is OK now. Interesting discussion about the pic I've got rid of it as it's not very good quality anyway Thruxton (talk) 19:57, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Lakes in Bangalore

Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• I would suggest alternative "... that the lakes in Bangalore have been largely encroached by urban infrastructure resulting in existence of only 17 good lakes as against 51 healthy lakes in 1985?" Raise lkblr (talk) 06:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• Both these hooks are pretty long and convoluted. How about something like:

• ALT2: ... that recent restoration efforts were said to have "breathed new life" into Ulsoor Lake, one of the largest lakes in Bangalore? —Politizer /_contribs 06:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for the suggestions.I will go with ALT2.--Nvvchar (talk) 15:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Urbach-Wiethe disease

Template:DYKsuggestion at 20:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• Note: this very competently written article is the author's first ever contribution.  Sandstein  20:17, 1 December 2008 (UTC) - Fixed capitalisation in nom,  Sandstein  21:50, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length, history, and numerous refs verified. Really an outstanding article. —Politizer /_contribs 06:21, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Andrew McKelvey

Template:DYKsuggestion at 14:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. The article was actually created on the 29th and then expanded 5x by Alansohn just a couple days later, but I don't think the article creator should get DYK credit because he plagiarized when creating the original article. —Politizer /_contribs 06:17, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Metz

Template:DYKsuggestion at 12:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• Please feel free to reword it if it can be presented in a better way. Chamal 12:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment: The German Army link isn't too good, since it links to the modern German Army. Manxruler (talk) 07:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I've changed the link to Wehrmacht. Chamal 11:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

What does "hostilities were formally ended" mean? End of World War II in Europe? --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

No, the end of that particular battle. When the city was captured the objective was complete, so the battle was officially over. The forts were going to fall anyway. I've reworded the hook to avoid any confusion. Chamal 00:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think "formally ended" and "officially over" are suitable vocabulary in this case. No peace treaty was signed. "German units in nearby isolated forts continued to hold out" and "hostilities were formally ended" contradict each other. --74.14.18.48 (talk) 05:33, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's the way it's mentioned in the ref, and is also the way such an event is formally called. It's not about signing a peace treaty, but the city was captured an cleared of enemy personnel and officially declared as captured, marking the end of the battle. Since the objective was the capture of the city and providing a safe passage to the advancing forces, the capture of nearby forts (which were no longer a main concern) was not so important, and it was clear they had no choice but to surrender in the end anyway. A military operation usually has a "formal" beginning and ending. But I think Manxruler's suggestion will avoid any confusions like this, I like that one better. Chamal 09:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

How about: "... that after the city of Metz was captured by the U.S. Army in the World War II Battle of Metz, German units in nearby isolated forts continued to hold out?" Manxruler (talk) 07:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Fine with me. Chamal 09:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

.44 Webley

• ... that Lt. Col George Custer carried a pair of .44 Webley revolvers at the Battle of the Little Bighorn? Created by Trekphiler 1 December, joint nom by Trekphiler & Commander Zulu (who contributed this factoid). TREKphiler 09:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• This article currently isn't long enough for Did You Know. Please see #Instructions for details. Art LaPella (talk) 01:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• Also, the article is currently marked as a stub, which is another DYK disqualifying factor. Nsk92 (talk) 02:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm prepared to del the stub tag, added as a default (given I'm unsure what qualifies as non-stub). Some correction/add is in train. TREKphiler 06:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Added some, del stub tag. Also, now at .442 Webley, the more common name, I'm told. (My NeoOffice counts almost 1800 chars as it stands now.) TREKphiler 07:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I still have several significant problems with this entry. First, the article is still rather short and feels very stubby. Second, there are problems with what sources are cited and whether or not they support the hook. One of the two sources cited is a geocities site, not an WP:RS. I am not quite sure if the other source passes WP:RS. Also, the section "Custer’s Personal Weapons" in this last source makes it clear that there is in fact disagreement between various historians regarding what kind of personal weapons Custer had at the Battle of the Little Bighorn. The section discusses pros and cons of various possibilities and contains polemic arguments. It does not unambiguously and definitively support the statement as given in the hook. Nsk92 (talk) 17:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

<--Looking at it again, & given the number of variants the RIC was offered in, it's likely Custer's, even presuming they were RICs, weren't actually .442s anyhow. Given that, I would withdraw this one, absent confirmation. TREKphiler 19:01, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Withdrawn by nominator. —Politizer /_contribs 06:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Charles Ranken

Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 02:06, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1: ... that Charles Ranken's 1889 chess book Chess Openings Ancient and Modern is still heavily studied by modern grandmasters, including Bobby Fischer? —Politizer /_contribs 06:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Length and date fine; offline references accepted in good faith. Olaf Davis | Talk 18:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

History of Bihar

Template:DYKsuggestion at 15:24, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• The qualifying article is not linked in the hook. —Politizer /_contribs 15:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• And even if someone does fix the hook, the article still needs major cleanup and copyediting (both to clean up the English, fix the surface structure, and clean up the messy markup). —Politizer /_contribs 16:01, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• It's been a while and no one has objected; also, the article needs far too much work for anyone to be able to rescue it in time for DYK. Nom can be removed. —Politizer /_contribs 05:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 30

German post offices abroad

Template:DYKsuggestion --Ekem (talk) 03:30, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Tytus Filipowicz

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• Added some links. --74.14.18.48 (talk) 21:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

• Verified. Polish ref accepted in good faith. —Politizer /_contribs 06:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• Moved from Dec 1. —Politizer /_contribs 06:05, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

A vital point: not "in" the Soviet Union, but "to" the Soviet Union (it's not like he was ambassador to the USSR in Georgia). Also, what the article says is that he was arrested by the Soviets, and only then made ambassador by his gvt, because Poland and the USSR were still at war. The hook unwittingly gives the impression that, once left with no country to represent Poland in, Filipowicz said "I might as well ask the invaders if they need my services." That is inaccurate, but I can't think of a better hook. Dahn (talk) 20:02, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Crossing out my earlier verification until this is settled. —Politizer /_contribs 22:51, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

To clarify (I may have been a little ambiguous in my earlier post): I guess the main problem here is that the hook defines a causality where none seems to have existed. In short: although it stopped Filipowicz's time in office as ambassador to Georgia, the Soviet invasion did not make him an ambassador to the Soviet Union (which did not exist back then, btw), it made him a prisoner of Bolshevik authorities. Might I suggest,

ALT: ... that Tytus Filipowicz (pictured), nominally the first Polish ambassador to Georgia, was captured during the Soviet invasion and ultimately organized the first Polish embassy to the Soviet Union? Dahn (talk) 01:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Westland Dreadnought

Template:DYKsuggestion at 14:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
**ALT1:

Length, reference and history verified. Daniel Case (talk) 05:14, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Richard Haddock

Template:DYKsuggestion

According to the article, it was a satin cap belonging to the king. You may want to fix that. Ecoleetage (talk) 03:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I worded the hook deliberately. It's accurate, the point of describing it in prosaic terms was to entice the reader to find out more. What sort of hat, why would the king give someone a hat rather than a more traditional reward of money or titles? If you note that it was in fact a rather nice hat, and the king's personal hat, then it seems to me you take away some of the impetus to follow the link, by giving the reader the self contained story. Benea (talk) 03:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Verified with offline ref accepted in good faith. Chamal 01:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Westbury Court Garden

Template:DYKsuggestion at 19:11, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Google says the linked page is unavailable. Perhaps it is to me in the US ... can a UK editor try verifying this one? Daniel Case (talk) 05:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that's just a page that's not part of the limited preview, but I dunno. In any case, I'm just treating it as an offline source and verifying it AGF. Article expansion is good, everything verified. —Politizer /_contribs 05:56, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Very odd - the link is working for me (in England), may be it's a copyright thing & it's not available in other territories - didn't know they did that. Nancy 07:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

List of towns and cities in Devon by population

... that the city of Plymouth (pictured) is the largest settlement in Devon, England, with a population of 240,720 in the 2001 census? Created by myself, Jolly Janner (talk) 17:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Length, reference and history verified. Daniel Case (talk) 05:04, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Midnight Madness (basketball)

Template:DYKsuggestion--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:44, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Alternative hook... that the Florida Gators men's basketball team coach, Billy Donovan, rose from a coffin during Midnight Madness (pictured)? Jolly Janner (talk) 00:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Length, reference and history verified for this one. Let's use it (Shame we can't save it for Halloween). Daniel Case (talk) 05:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Clewer Mill Stream

Template:DYKsuggestion at 16:04, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• ALT1 ... that Clewer Mill Stream, a backwater of the River Thames, used to be out of bounds to boys from nearby Eton College and a punishment of 100 lines could be handed down for going there? --Nancy 10:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

More interesting hook and referenced. Length before expansion was 483 charachters. (5 x 483 = 2415) Current length is 2396, but I'm not too bothered about it being 19 charachters too short. Jolly Janner (talk) 00:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Loyal B. Stearns

Template:DYKsuggestion

• Verifying off-Wiki source with good faith. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:05, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Yellagonga Regional Park

Template:DYKsuggestion – RyanCross (talk) 05:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Verified, mate! Ecoleetage (talk) 03:26, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It might help if the reference included a page number, it's a bold enough claim people are going to want to look it up. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:41, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I hesitated to verify this before because the hook seems pretty empty. Saying "X has historical significance" doesn't tell me anything tangible. A more specific hook would be nice. Or at least something using language like ALT: ... that Yellagonga Regional Park played a significant role in the development of the City of Waterloo? —pretty much the same information, but it doesn't sound so weird this way. —Politizer /_contribs 04:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

How about highlighting the historic Luisini Winery and the plan for a museum of early winemaking and wine appreciation? --Orlady (talk) 22:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 29

midnight regulations

Template:DYKsuggestion at 07:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

• No mention of "dozens" in the the article (thousand of pages and three examples are mentioned), plus the use of the present tense suggests news rather than an encyclopaedia article; unless the actions are in the past there is an unverifiable, fortune-telling element to the hook. Yomangani 01:08, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
• Alternative hook:

"... that Jimmy Carter was the first United States President to make extensive use of midnight regulations?

davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 02:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The New Yorker (or whichever it is) ref for that doesn't really explicitly say he was the first...it just makes a big deal out of him. There are lots of other things that that could be verified more easily, like the records that Clinton and Bush Sr. hold. —Politizer /_contribs

ALT: ... that the Bush Administration has adopted several midnight regulations in its closing months? --chaser - t 03:14, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

But ... as the article indicates, this is not unique to the Bush Administration. Perhaps we could find another hook? Daniel Case (talk) 14:59, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• Inclined to decline any hook which is too current-event-like. In fact, DYN may be less appropriate than a Wikinews article to highlight this topic. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 17:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• I think the article is appropriate for DYK, it's just the we could use a better hook. I still think the stuff about Bush Sr.'s and Clinton's "records" in the New Yorker article is good hook material. If no one else has proposed a good hook within the next day or so, maybe I'll write one myself, who knows. —Politizer /_contribs 18:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• ALT2: ... that midnight regulations passed by an outgoing United States president can "distract" the new administration? Trying to get one that's not news-y and not more about certain individuals than the article itself. —Politizer /_contribs 05:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Expiring noms

Articles created/expanded on November 28

Alberta and Great Waterways Railway Scandal

Template:DYKsuggestion at 07:00, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

• While I appreciate the amount of work that's gone into this article, I'm concerned about the fact that it comes entirely from one source, and seems to describe things in almost the same order as the source does (making it more like a summary of one source than a mixing of several). Also, in at least a few sections the tone is informal and the article somewhat story-ish, with stuff like "He was no big fan of Rutherford," "he was not formally found guilty but a shadow appeared to hang over him," and "Clarke appeared on the scene." —Politizer /_contribs 14:25, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It admittedly comes mostly (not entirely) from one source. I can change some of the ref taggings to different sources if that would help, since I have several sources that say basically the same thing (I used the most in depth source in preference to the others since it included almost all the information that I felt needed to be included, and I didn't want to switch extensively between books). With regards to the order of the article mirroring the order of the source, this is true in the "The scandal" section, which is essentially chronological in both the article and the source, but much less true of the "Aftermath" section, which jumps back and forth a fair bit. I'll have a look at some of the style issues. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 15:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, upon closer examination, the organization of "The scandal" is less chronological than I had thought; much of the "Cabinet confusion" section took place after much of the "Further legislative manoeuvring" section, which is reflected in the sources' page numbers. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 15:57, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Final comments for now: I've diversified the sourcing slightly, though both of the other sources I use actually rely heavily on the Thomas book for their own sections about the scandal, so I'm not sure how much good it does; in any event, I think the diversity of sourcing compares favourably to several of the current DYK articles. I'm satisfied that the organization of the article is very different from the organization of the source material. With regards to tone, I've changed one of the items you noted, but left the other two intact, as I believe their tone is appropriate, especially for image captions (you also misquoted two of the three items you mentioned). I didn't see any other particular issues with tone. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 16:27, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Off-topic thought: This long and detailed article makes rough going for readers (like myself) who lack previous knowledge and context (and probably don't have much interest in the topic). For the benefit of bewildered DYK reviewers, schoolchildren, etc., it would be be helpful if the detail and citations to even more detailed sources were supplemented with some links to simpler resources that discuss this scandal in larger context, such as History of Alberta (which currently does not appear to mention this scandal) or "1905-1915: Inter-City Rivalry and Political Scandal" on the CBC website (which describes it in 3 sentences, and supports the hook fact). --Orlady (talk) 22:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 27

Flyable Heart

Template:DYKsuggestion at 18:01, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• Length verified. The article uses a lot of self-published sources, but all in the plot & characters section, so I'm willing to overlook it. But, the critical reference (ref 3, which is the reference for the hook fact and is also the only third-party ref in the entire article) is awkward; it doesn't provide an article title or anything like that. I would like to see that clarified before I take further action on this. —Politizer /_contribs 08:18, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's actually a preview in a magazine, so if there's gonna be any titles it would be the game's title (I guess I'll go ahead and add that in there), but otherwise I wouldn't know what to put there (looking at some western video game magazines, there doesn't appear to be titles for previews too). -- クラウド６６８ 08:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I've changed them to use the {{citation}} template instead and added Flyable Heart review in as the title, hopefully that will work. Thanks for pointing it out. -- クラウド６６８ 08:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

It looks better now; I mainly wanted titles in there because without titles it looked as if the source was the Misplaced Pages article for Dengeki magazine.

Although I said earlier that I didn't mind the SPS, I am thinking now that I am a bit concerned about the preponderance of those kinds of sources. Since there are so few third-party sources, the article doesn't do very much to establish the notability of its subject (which, of course, is hard or impossible to do, given that the game isn't out yet). I'd like to sit around for a bit and see what other reviewers have to say about that. —Politizer /_contribs 08:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, being Japanese media (visual novel, in particular, which is usually not reported by western sources, and on top of that not yet released as you've pointed out), it's not really exposed to much online sources. I do know that it's also previewed in other print magazines (published by other companies), but I wasn't able to obtain those. -- クラウド６６８ 08:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) Can another reviewer chime in on this? I haven't verified it because I have misgivings about notability (given that it's an unreleased game, it's difficult to establish notability, and there doesn't seem to be a big hype or anything leading up to it) and the use of self-published sources...but the problems aren't bad enough for me to reject it outright, and I would like to hear a second opinion. I just don't want someone to delete the nomination because no one has acted on it; I'm not ignoring it, I'm just waiting for another opinion. —Politizer /_contribs 15:41, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I was able to find myself another print magazine source (through some file sharing means), so I went ahead and added it in (although it didn't back the hook). I don't know if this would help any at all, but if not please feel free to remove the hook. -- クラウド６６８ 22:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Queues

Queue 1

The hooks below have been approved by a human (– 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs)) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.

• ... that the white ring on the flag of Okinawa Prefecture (pictured) represents the "O" in "Okinawa"?
• ... that Emirati princess Mahra Al Maktoum invoked the triple talaq to divorce her husband, which is traditionally done only by the husband?
• ... that as many as 35 million soldiers became prisoners of war in World War II, according to some estimates?
• ... that Luigi Mangione was described as "somewhat of an online sex symbol" following his December 2024 arrest for murder?
• ... that the Mseilha Fort is strategically located to overlook the crossing of the Jaouz River near Ras ash-Shaq'a, a promontory in Lebanon?
• ... that Saint Amata of Assisi was interviewed and testified during the process of the canonization of her aunt, Saint Clare of Assisi?
• ... that journalism students at New Mexico State University were willing to work for free to save their newscast on the school's TV station?
• ... that the Rockwell PPS-8 microprocessor had a number of features that made Adam Osborne call it "most unusual" and "difficult to understand"?
• ... that a president of the Oregon Senate crawled along a ledge of the State Capitol to access an unsecured window of the absent governor's office to place bills on his desk?

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Queue 2

The hooks below have been approved by a human (RoySmith (talk)) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.

• ... that the unique flower shape of Lilium lophophorum (pictured) is adapted to protect its reproductive organs from the harsh ultraviolet light and torrential rains of its habitat?
• ... that with the Green Bay Packers' loss in the 2020 NFC Championship Game, Aaron Rodgers "became the first quarterback in NFL history to lose four straight NFC Championship Games"?
• ... that The House of Bijapur has been called a "painted curtain call" since the dynasty it depicts was overthrown only a few years later?
• ... that Dethloff Willrodt fought for the Union army on the first day of the Battle of Gettysburg on July 1, 1863, having previously been a soldier in the Confederate army?
• ... that in Greek mythology, Achilles promised to marry Pisidice if she would help him conquer her homeland, but afterwards he had her executed for treason?
• ... that blogger Charles LeBlanc interviewed a man who carried out a mass shooting the following year?
• ... that for cultural reasons the jijin was permitted to be worn by Catholic priests in China even while celebrating Mass?
• ... that in 1927 Berta Persson became the first woman bus driver in Sweden and was nicknamed "Buss-Berta"?
• ... that both the comedy film Starbuck, and the Holstein bull it was named after, had cloned remakes?

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Queue 3

The hooks below have been approved by a human (~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk)) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.

• ... that Adrien Nunez (pictured), despite limited playing time, was more highly paid than some NBA draft lottery picks while in college?
• ... that a specimen of Aquilegia daingolica was collected in 1909, but it was only described as a new species in 2013?
• ... that Yanou Collart helped Rock Hudson get medical treatment when Nancy Reagan would not?
• ... that when Alexander McQueen, following years of criticism for over-reliance on runway spectacles, presented The Man Who Knew Too Much, it was criticised for its lack of theatrics?
• ... that Lars Chemnitz was one of the first recipients of Nersornaat, the highest honor in Greenland?
• ... that the principal songwriter of a song on Always Happy to Explode asked listeners to "love it for me, for I cannot"?
• ... that Daniel Hermann wrote poems on the inclusion of a lizard and a frog in a piece of amber, the eagle in the coat of arms of Poland, and a child suffering from Fraser syndrome?
• ... that the harsh treatment of Allied prisoners of war in Japan is well known in the West but mostly forgotten in Japan itself?
• ... that a cable TV channel in the UK was still broadcasting primarily in black and white as late as 1979?

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Queue 4

REMOVE THIS MESSAGE WHEN ADDING HOOKS TO THE QUEUE This queue is currently empty. When hooks are added, they must be approved by adding {{DYKbotdo|~~~}} to the top of the page; the bot will not make any updates unless this is added. Remove this message when adding the hooks.

Queue 5

REMOVE THIS MESSAGE WHEN ADDING HOOKS TO THE QUEUE This queue is currently empty. When hooks are added, they must be approved by adding {{DYKbotdo|~~~}} to the top of the page; the bot will not make any updates unless this is added. Remove this message when adding the hooks.

Next update queue

6

Next next update queue

• ... that the Mingxing Film Company (logo pictured) paid off a gangster so it could release Fate in Tears and Laughter?
• ... that ...
• ... that Brazil's Ministry of Education threatened legal action against the Portuguese Misplaced Pages due to the page for its minister?
• ... that a Japanese man raised over 1,000 Korean orphans during the Japanese occupation of Korea?
• ... that ...
• ... that ...
• ... that ...
• ... that ...
• ... that ...

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See also

• User:AlexNewArtBot/GoodSearchResult – This is an automated list of promising new articles generated by AlexNewArtBot (talk · contribs · logs).

• Misplaced Pages Did you know