Misplaced Pages

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Yonsei

The disambiguation page thread at Talk:Yonsei needs constructive intervention; and my strategies for mitigating inflammatory rhetoric are likely to prove ineffective. A corollary dispute is developing in a redirect talk page thread at Talk:Yonsei Severance Hospital. --Tenmei (talk) 18:22, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Here are references why Tenmei (talk · contribs) put {{OR}}, {{SYNTHESIS}} tags to Yonsei Severance Hospital

• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei)
• Talk:Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei)

We need constructive input to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei). Thanks--Caspian blue 18:40, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The thread at Talk:Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei) is not merely relevant, it goes a long way towards explaining the contrived genesis of this particular disambiguation page. Taken altogether, the data available suggest that there may be arguable merit in a phrase Caspian blue has coined: "hoax redirect." If so, a deft hand would seem needed in smoothing over the rough spots which arise because of occasional post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies. --Tenmei (talk) 19:30, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Do not distort my comment. You're trying to make the redirect page as a "hoax redirect" with your disruptive tagging to the page and other very "unique activities".--Caspian blue 22:02, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Rename this page Yonsei (disambiguation)

• WP:HOAX
• WP:NOHOAXES

Caspian blue has both engineered a novel tactic and a wiki-neologism to describe it -- a "hoax redirect." I avoid conjecture as to the purpose of this novel gambit, but the available data support an arguable claim that a problem exists. This problem deserves closer scrutiny. This dispute would appear to involve a non-standard issues.

History

FIRST, an article about Yonsei, a descriptive term for fourth-generation emigrants/immigrants of Japanese descent in Latin America, North America and elsewhere in the world, attracted Caspian blue's attention. This non-stub article was arbitrarily moved and re-named without discussion or opportunity for comment and consensus discussion:

• 20:37, 6 November 2008 Caspian blue moved Yonsei to Yonsei (Japanese term): Making a dab page. This is NOT a well-known PRIMARY topic in English unlike "nisei" and "sansei" found in dictionaries and web search.)

This user's limited grasp of English usage renders this conclusory argument suspect; but further research was required in order to respond effectively to this casually disruptive edit. I did invest research time in order to rebut Caspian blue's demonstrably insupportable claim. However, it is relevant to note that the a priori version of this article included fully developed bibliographic reference citations and in-line citations. Also, it may be relevant that more than one active editor was in the process of adding to the Yonsei text. The moved article was arbitrarily re-named Yonsei (Japanese term). A new disambiguation page -- Yonsei -- was created and populated with spurious links. What might have been nothing more than a misunderstanding is hard to dismiss in the context of the otherwise inexplicable post hoc links:

Yonsei may refer to;

• Yonsei (Japanese term), fourth generation of Japanese immigrants to America and Australia
• Honorific term for Age in Korean.
• Yonsei University, a private university in Seoul, South Korea
• Yonsei Severance Hospital, first modern hospital affiliated with Yonsei University
• Yonsei Medical Journal, published by Yonsei University College of Medicine.
• Yonsei Basketball Association, association for Japanese-American Youth Basketball

SECOND, the presumptively necessary disambiguation was edited to eliminate specious links:

• 01:47, 8 November 2008 Kusunose attempted a disambiguation page cleanup: rm {{wiktionary|Yonsei}}, entry does not exist; rm entry about Korean honorific, a dic def; rm piping; rm entires with no links; single blue link per line)

THIRD, the misnamed Yonsei (Japanese term) was further modified without discussion or opportunity for comment and consensus discussion -- moved again to Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei):

• 06:05, 10 Novemer 2008 DA19 created (redirect from Yonsei (Japanese term): while the origins of Nikkei is Japanese, the North American and Latin American descendants of Japanese immigrants are the primary users of what is a Nikkei term.)

FOURTH, when I attempted to question the contrived redirect -- Yonsei Severance Hospital, then Caspian blue initiated an AfD thread to delete the Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei) ... which was formerly Yonsei (Japanese term) and just plain Yonsei before that ....

• WP:V
• WP:VERIFY
• WP:SOURCE

AXIOM/FACT: The requirements of WP:V are minimal.

The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth -— that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Misplaced Pages has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed.

Proposed solution

PROPOSAL #1: The article about emigrants/immigrants of Japanese descent should be named Yonsei in the same simple manner as its corollary articles -- Issei (1st generation emigrants/immgirants), Nisei (2nd generation emigrants/immigrants) and Sansei (3rd generation emigrants/immigrants). The original name should be restored as the simplest and best solution to unnecessary problems which flow from a series of unhelpful article moves.

The article's name needs be the subject of reasoned discussion; and a consensus decision needs to be reached in due course.

PROPOSAL #2: Like Yale (disambiguation), which Caspian blue mentions in the second paragraph of the opening salvo at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei), this page can be renamed Yonsei (disambiguation). In fact, this is what could have been done, should have been done in the first place .... Caspian blue's post hoc analysis explains an ante-hoc decision-making process.

Bluntly, Caspian blue deliberately trod in a rough-shod fashion over consensus-building niceties -- see second paragraph. I take grim notice of the mention of "rants" attributable to me. This is an inadvertent admission that Talk:Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei) was ignored; and instead, Caspian blue selected a more confrontational attack.

My response: By all means, do read anything and everything I've written, and what seem especially relevant are the prose Caspian blue characterizes as "rants." In the context my "rants" create, the disambiguation is seen as nothing but a contrived gambit, unsupported by research or reference citations.

Questions to be answered

The difficult issues to be addressed are these:

• 1. What, if anything, could have been done differently at any step of the edit histories which precede this posting?
• 2. What is the best way to sort this out now?
• 3. What, if anything, can be done to avert or mitigate similarly needless conflicts in the future.

This is a serious situation which calls for a thoughtful approach.

However, for me, what is not tolerable is anything like the perverse charade which unfolded at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-11-06 Woo Jang-choon, more specifically in the full discussion thread which unfolded here. --Tenmei (talk) 00:23, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, The piece of this argument that appears to be within the scope of the disambiguation project is this: Is there a primary topic which should take the title ], or should that be the dab page? Relevant evidence in such debates usually includes some sort of analysis to show that the vast majority of Wiki traffic goes to one particular page, or failing that, to show that the vast majority of published uses of the term relate to one particular usage. If you can, and care to, it would be helpful to bring that sort of analysis here, succinctly. Otherwise, this will appear to be an argument between two users that has spilled into other places, and will likely receive little attention. --AndrewHowse (talk) 03:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that Taemyr's analysis of the disputed issues and contending points-of-view at Talk:Yonsei#Primary Topic is generally congruent with the comment posted above by AndrewHowse, e.g., "Which page that should be at Yonsei is governed by WP:PRIMARYTOPIC." This approach is appealing. I need more time to figure out how to articulate my misgivings or to dismiss them as unhelpful.

A crucial step forward seems potentially acceptable to all participants in the discussion threads -- that the disambiguation page will be renamed without objection as Yonsei (disambiguation), similar to Harvard (disambiguation) and Yale (disambiguation) ... which now reveals a distilled locus of dispute, i.e.,

Whether a Japanese word will be permitted to be given prominence and precedence over a Korean word. In other words, the dispute becomes about whether Yonsei has to be a redirect to Yonsei University because it is more important than a Japanese emigrant group.

I think this formulation of the problem goes to what has always been Caspian blue's unspoken objectives.

I have misgivings about the concepts of "precedence" and "more important" in this context; and any sentence construction which incorporates these terms becomes a loaded question.

Nevertheless, I would have guessed that if all disputing editors agree to accept Yonsei (disambiguation), then the issues relevant to this talk page are considered resolved? No? --Tenmei (talk) 21:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Hold on. The dab page only goes at Yonsei (disambiguation) if there is a primary topic at Yonsei. Making that move presupposes that a primary topic exists, and that in turn implies agreement on what that primary topic is. As WP:PRIMARYTOPIC says, lack of agreement on that is often good evidence that no primary topic exists. So I don't think you should move the dab page without explicit agreement on the primary topic. -- AndrewHowse (talk) 22:09, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

AndrewHowse -- Thank you for your initial comment and for your further feedback. This is just going to have to proceed slowly as I catch up with the relevant ramifications. I'm struggling to find a strategy which will help me parse these matters more discretely. As an experiment,

• I typed "Heidelburg" in the search box, which led to the town of Heidelberg and a hatnote for Heidelberg (disambiguation).
• I typed in "Freiburg" in the search box, it led to the town Freiburg im Breisgau and to a disambiguation box ... but I had to look a bit harder to find the University of Freiburg.

This approach proved unavailing, but at least it illustrates an attempt to grapple with this problem from a perspective I'm reluctant to espouse. --Tenmei (talk) 23:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

___________________

The following addition to this thread has been copied from moved to Talk:Yonsei because here, the discussion becomes accessible to a potentially larger number of contributors and a potentially helpful array of perspectives: however, Caspian blue demurs, and no reason needs to be given for that demurral.

At Talk:Yonsei (disambiguation)#Primary Topic participation by members of WikiProject Disambiguation would be helpful in the context which is now created by

• Argument: Yonsei is arguably a "Primary topic"

There is not now an easy consensus on this matter. In my view, this disambiguation dispute would have been better positioned here on this page where it could garner the views of likely interested contributors; however, Caspian blue demurs. --Tenmei (talk) 00:26, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Wesleyan

I have been patrolling through Misplaced Pages:Disambiguation pages with links/Maintenance and stumbled across the page Wesleyan. Now some people have gone and done a pretty job on the page, however, it is moving the page away from how I envisage a disambig page, and getting more to an article and/or list page, or some combination of all three. Others opinion and views would be appreciated. -- billinghurst (talk) 23:07, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I've attempted to start a discussion about it on Talk:Wesleyan#Disambiguation_Page.3F. Its useful info, so I don't want it to go away and I'd like to see if someone will take it upon themselves to extract the useful stuff of to a new article. (John User:Jwy talk) 23:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Okie dokie. I had been going that way, just had wanted 2nd opinion before I did. You have done well. :-) -- billinghurst (talk) 00:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages: A guide for readers

Editors who may be concentrating on forcing all disambiguation pages into an authorized conformity may forget as they delve into excruciating minutiae, discarding information that does not "fit" (see Procrustes), that Misplaced Pages is a readers' guide. Deleting useful guidance runs counter to the project's basis directive. It's well to keep that in mind when struggling to fit recalcitrant facts into orthodox straitjackets--Wetman 01:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I try to remind myself of that often. I try to remain faithful to "it makes it easier to use wikipedia" than to "The Guidelines." I don't always succeed. Thanks for the reminder. (John User:Jwy talk) 06:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

What is your point concerning Procrustes)? Abtract (talk) 21:25, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Acid (disambiguation)

Wouldn't it be better to use Acid (drug) instead of Lysergic acid diethylamide according to WP:PIPING? The latter does share the dab term, but I'd like to hear some suggestions. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:59, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I've reworded it as seems right per recent long debate on subject. Abtract (talk) 21:30, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I discovered a similar case with on Superman (disambiguation), look at the entry Superman (radio). Its main target contains the dab name yet it is not titled just "Superman". Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:52, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The rewording seems incorrect. If there's an article for the dab page entry, the blue link should be the first thing on the line. "Acid (drug) or Lysergic acid diethylamide, ..." or "Lysergic acid diethylamide or acid, ..." I prefer the first form. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:17, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Why the project box on talk pages?

E.g. . The pages can be found anyway via categories anyway, and creating talk pages without useful content is wasting bandwidth, server usage, and the time of people checking the talk page and it's edits. -- Jeandré, 2008-11-22t21:06z

I'm curious as well. Several people have taken on this mission and I'm trying to understand the purpose. Anyone? (John User:Jwy talk) 18:54, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I have never understood how it is helpful and who it is supposed to help. Abtract (talk) 19:05, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Ditto - If I go to edit something on a dab page and see that the talk page exists, I click on the tab in case there's some relevant discussion, and find I've wasted my time because the page has been created just to contain this template for which I can see no use either. Seriously, could someone please explain why it's thought to be helpful? PamD (talk) 08:30, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the disambig project banner is rather pointless, IMO. I seem to recall it came up in discussion a while back. As I recall, someone proposed making the banner and adding it. Many of the same questions of value were raised then, but no one raised any strong objections and thus a banner was born. Now, because it exists, it is considered by some proper to add to the talk pages as for other projects. I recently added the {{WikiProject Michigan}} banner with class=disambig to a number of disambig pages for Michigan placenames and as I did so I also added the disambig project banner, but I wouldn't miss it at all. older ≠ wiser 13:01, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

FYI, the template appears to have been first proposed here. It was also discussed here, here, here, here, here, here, and here

The template was also considered for deletion, twice, and survived resoundingly: here and here. BTW, a set of redirects from other versions has been recently nominated for deletion here. older ≠ wiser 13:34, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

But the argument about clicking a talk page only to find project banner(s) applies equally to articles. There are many article talk pages with no discussion, only project banners. One solution would be to have a separate tab for projects, banners and other metadata and keep the talk page purely for discussion. --Jameboy (talk) 00:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I would probably never heard of this project, although I am quite interested in disambiguation pages, if it had not been for the banner that someone added to one of the disambiguation pages that were (and are) on my watch list. I am glad that this project exists, and I do think that thrashing (or threshing) out issues here will be a net benefit for the Misplaced Pages as a whole. If all that the banners do is call like-interested individuals to this project, isn't it worth an occasional click or two? --Bejnar (talk) 23:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Papal oath

The page Papal oath says that a papal oath is a papal oath (an oath taken by a pope) - we don't need an encyclopedia to tell us that. It then mentions the only text that is in fact referred to as "the Papal Oath", an oath supposed to have been taken by Popes for centuries, the alleged "Papal Oath" that Misplaced Pages calls Papal Oath (Traditionalist Catholic). Of the other three "papal oaths" listed, the first is a profession of faith, not an oath, the second is indeed an oath of fealty to an emperor, and the third was never taken by any recognized pope, and so cannot be called a papal oath. No source outside Misplaced Pages calls any of these three a "papal oath". The page should become, I think, a redirect page to the only article that does treat of what is actually called a papal oath. Lima (talk) 13:34, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Dealing with dab pages that reference other dab pages

Step references other dab pages. I put a ( disambiguation page) edit on the same line as those dab pages. Is this the best way to do it? --Sultec (talk) 20:30, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

That's informative to the reader, so that's ok. Alternatively, you can link to the redirect Stepping (disambiguation), which provides the same information. I've removed the link to WP:DAB, though. I'm not sure if the "one link per line" officially applies to "see also"s, but it makes sense there as well, and besides, the term disambiguation is already explained elsewhere on the page. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 22:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I think links via redirects (Stepping (disambiguation) etc) are preferable - they then don't show up as "links to dab pages" or "dab pages with links", but the redirects make it clear that these are conscious links to dab pages. PamD (talk) 23:34, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Round Midnight

Could someone review my request for a move to the primary topic (the song)? Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 00:50, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I've tried to stir things up a bit: I think it best to beef up the song article first, have marked it a stub and tweaked the Jazz Wikiproject to take a look. I've also put a pointer to the dab page talk discussion on the song's talk page. I think the article could be considerably longer. (John User:Jwy talk) 18:51, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

LCC

Someone may need to watch LCC, as User:Liverpoolcc has been overwriting the dab page with an article non-notable club... an AfD Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/LCC was closed as REVERT to dab from a previous overwrite by the same user. 76.66.195.63 (talk) 07:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

St. John the Divine

Hello, I need some help with this. I believe there needs to be a disambiguation for "St. John the Divine," but I'm a little confused about how to set this up. There's are articles for John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos. All three are saints. Then we have multiple churches of the same name, including Cathedral of Saint John the Divine, New York, which is what brought me to this problem. The Cathedral was just repaired from fire damage, and I simply searched for "St. John the Divine," looking to get the Cathedral, but there is no link from John of Patmos to the Cathedral's page. There are already two disambiguation links at the top of that page, so my understanding per Misplaced Pages:Disambiguation is that a third disambig link necessitates an entire page. But where to put it? "John of Patmos"? "John the Divine" (currently redirects to John of Patmos)? St. John the Divine (currently redirects to John of Patmos)? Help! --Wolf530 (talk) 22:00, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I would start with creating John the Divine (disambiguation) and adding a {{redirect}} hatnote to John of Patmos. John of Patmos would be linked in the intro para, and the apostle, the evangelist, and the church could all be bullet listed. -- JHunterJ (talk) 22:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The plot thickens - at the moment John the Divine redirects to J of Patmos, but St John the Divine redirects to John the Evangelist! I think I'll create the dab page JHJ suggests - there are a few churches as well as the cathedral which could usefully be included. PamD (talk) 15:56, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

More:

• John the Divine → John of Patmos
• St John the Divine → John the Evangelist
• St. John the Divine → John of Patmos
• Saint John the Divine → John of Patmos
• Saint John the → John the Evangelist (but I've prodded this one)

Probably St John the Divine should redirect to John of Patmos as well as the others, unless there's some reason for distinguishing them based on the period. -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, in the mean time I'd created the dab page and had assumed (on grounds of my ignorance) that perhaps both the long-established redirects I found were right - but on the basis of majority vote (I didn't find your 3rd and 4th!) I'll change things a bit now. PamD (talk) 16:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Have you considered simply using Saint John? Abtract (talk) 16:52, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

That's a larger group. If someone enters "John the Divine", no need to make them wade through all the Sts. John when there only a handful of likely candidates. -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:27, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge Dashti into Dasht (disambiguation)

Discussion at Talk:Dasht (disambiguation)#Merger from Dashti. --Bejnar (talk) 20:03, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Vyatsky

At the Talk:Vyatsky page editor Ezhiki removed the disambiguation project info and said as an edit summary "a set, not a dab". Ezhiki also said in an edit summary on the main page that the list on the Vyatsky page was reclassed as a set, and removed the Template:geodis . Discuss at Talk:Vyatsky#Disambiguation page or Set index article. --Bejnar (talk) 21:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Serena and Serena (name)

I just noted something, why are there two dabs? Isn't one supposed to be a name page? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The name page is not a disambiguation page, it's an anthroponymy list article. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:40, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

A1

Just looking for an opinion on A1 it appears to be a dab page and an article! it explanations of the term and lots of external links to non-article A1s (some just have A1 (or A-One) in their name). Doesnt look right but I thought I would ask the project. MilborneOne (talk) 10:21, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I tagged it for cleanup. It does appear to need a lot of cleanup. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:41, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

It does appear to need a lot of cleanup. Very true, and perhaps understates the magnitude of cleanup needed. older ≠ wiser 13:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Rich Baronets

It appears Rich Baronets could do to be made a disambiguation page. --Una Smith (talk) 00:45, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so - it's one of a group of well-crafted pages on similar topics, and there would be nothing at all to gain by trying to strip it down to be a dab page, just so that a group of separate pages for the different creations of the baronetcy could be created (assuming that's what you had in mind). PamD (talk) 08:21, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Lists on disambig pages

Ok you'll probably have been asked this before but i thought i should ask anyway. I was wondering, how should items in lists be included in disambiguation pages? I initially thought that it would be ], but this was reverted under WP:PIPING. What should it read as? Thanks, ReplyOnMine! 19:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

You'll find a recent no-consensus discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(disambiguation_pages)#Piping_and_redirects. – sgeureka 19:52, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

If you've got a widget that's an example of thingies, then on the widget disambiguation page, Widget, a ] is fine. Pipe links in the description are fine, and linking in the description when there is no (full) article for the entry itself is fine. -- JHunterJ (talk) 22:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Mangal disambiguation

I requested at Misplaced Pages:Requested moves#10 December 2008 that the article Mangal be moved to Mangal (barbecue) so that the disambiguation page could thereafter become the primary, with discussion at Talk:Mangal#Requested move. I noticed that the Mangel disambiguation page does not yet exist. I was wondering how other editors felt about consolidating the Mangal and Mangel disambiguation pages. Or instead, should the Mangel disambiguation page be created separately? --Bejnar (talk) 00:09, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

A quick look suggests (to me at least) that there's enough material for a separate dab page for Mangel, even if much of it is connected with one particular Australian soap-opera! Physchim62 (talk) 01:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Question: Paul McDermott

Is it necessary to have a disambiguation page for Paul McDermott? While there are two people with that name who have articles, only one of them (Paul McDermott (comedian)) goes by that name professionally - the other goes by Paul Mac and is identified as such throughout his article. Both have a dab at the top of their pages, surely that's enough to do away with any confusion. -Shoemoney2night (talk) 07:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

In that situation, it's usually seen as unnecessary but harmless. One refinement might be to move the dab page to name (disambiguation) and use the name page for the comedian. However there's also a footballer of the same name, whom I've just added to the dab. --AndrewHowse (talk) 13:38, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Atom smasher (disambiguation)

I would appreciate someone looking at this one ... start at the talk page maybe. Abtract (talk) 21:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Regime

This article is about political regimes, yet it contains disambiguation information. I think the "Science" section should be split into a separate article (if it is notable) and a new page Regime (disambiguation) should be created. --George100 (talk) 03:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Conveyor

Need native speaker help. Carn (talk) 17:02, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Returned the base name to the primary topic and removed the dab entries that did not have any WP articles to disambiguate. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:26, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Hastings

Need some help in gaining consensus. Details are on Talk:Hastings, but in summary, the town in Sussex England (close to the site of the famous battle) is the primary subject, but it's unclear whether it's primary enough. It certainly is if article visits are anything to go by, and also with whatlinkshere (though there are considerable numbers of misdirected links intended for other article pages). Google gives a murkier superiority - a rough estimate of 3.0 million ghits for Hastings, East Sussex, 2.1 million for Hastings, New Zealand, and 2.0 million for Hastings, Michigan. Is it worth mocing the article to Hastings, East Sussex and moving the dab pagee to Hastings? Grutness...wha? 23:20, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Garbage

Hello. I visited this category looking for information about abandoned clothing, and all I found were articles about a band. What kind of dab header would work here? Is there an appropriate template? At one extreme, I would expect a category redirect to Category:Waste, but I'll leave the final decision to the good folks in this project, who will probably not want to rename the category. I couldn't find the right template, so I just added {{for|Rubbish, trash, garbage, or junk|Category:Waste}}. Is there a better way? Viriditas (talk) 01:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

If you look at the page Garbage you will find the term disambiguated - I will see if it needs improving in the next few minutes. We here tend to specialise in dab pages not categories so that page may be the best we can offer. Abtract (talk) 19:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard that before. Disambiguation applies to all names used for files, articles and categories. FWIW, I often browse by category, so only disambiguating articles doesn't help here. Remember, article browsing is not the only way to find things. Viriditas (talk) 09:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Dab pages are not intended for browsing, they are to assist with finding the sought-after article out of a group of similarly named articles. Abtract (talk) 13:54, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Read what I wrote above. I often browse by category, and categories are subject to the same disambiguation requirements as any other article. Nobody browses by a dab page, as it wouldn't make sense. Viriditas (talk) 14:11, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

What's your point? Abtract (talk) 15:49, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

• Shouldn't it be Category:Garbage (band) to match the article title? That's what we've done in similar cases in the past. Ma_chups 20:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  • I think Category:Black Cat has a similar problem ... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:34, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Breeching

After some discussion (now on Talk:Breeching (boys)), I made Breeching a dab page. Help disambiguating the incoming links, and also improving the dab page, would be appreciated. --Una Smith (talk) 07:16, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages pages with to-do lists
• Misplaced Pages pages with to-do lists, unused