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<!-- Please add your suggestion using either the template provided or a level 4 header with the name of the new/expanded article. PLEASE leave spaces between the nominations. It helps those reviewing ... and picking -->
<!-- Please add your suggestion using either the template provided or a level 4 header with the name of the new/expanded article. PLEASE leave spaces between the nominations. It helps those reviewing ... and picking -->
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{{DYKsuggestion<!--Please do not copy this code directly for nominating. Instead, use {{subst:DYKsug}} as described in the header.-->
| hook = ...filmmaker ''']''' led the team that developed the ] system for the ] '']'' for enhancing the apparent depth of backgrounds in animated films?
Using a DYK suggestion string (see below examples), list new suggestions in the candidate entries section below under the date the article was created or the expansion began (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged. Thanks for participating and please remember to check back for comments on your nomination.
Length - The Article should contain at least 1,500 characters in main body text (ignoring infoboxes, categories, references, lists, and tables). This is a mandatory minimum; in practice, articles having more than 1,500 characters of prose still may be rejected as too short, at the discretion of the selecting administrators.
Verification - The DYK hook fact in the article needs an inline cite at the end of the sentence and the article in general should use inline, cited sources.
Date - The new article should be no more than five days old and the expanded article should be expanded at least fivefold with new text within the last five days.
Length
DYK qualifying characters: To count the number of characters in a piece of text, you will need to use a JavaScript extension like User:Dr pda/prosesize.js (instructions on the talk page), a free website like this, or an external softwareprogram that has a character-counting feature. For example, if you are using Microsoft Word, select the text from the article page (or, in the case of "Did you know" nominations, this Talk page) – not the edit page containing Wikitext – then copy and paste it into a blank document. Click "Tools" ("Review" in Office 2007), then "Word Count", and note the "Characters (with spaces)" figure. Other word processing programs may have a similar feature. For Mac users, Apple has a Word counter widget available for Mac OS X 10.4 or later. Note: The character counts indicated on "Revision history" pages are not accurate for DYK purposes as they include categories, infoboxes and similar text in articles, and comments and signatures in hooks on this page.
Lists: Proposed lists need 1,500+ characters of prose text. The listed items themselves are not counted as part the the 1,500 DYK qualifying characters
Verification
Suggested facts (the 'hook') should be:
interesting to draw in a variety of readers,
short and concise (fewer than about 200 characters, including spaces),
Please note that hooks are subject without notice to copyediting as they move to the main page. The nature of the DYK process makes it impractical to consult users over every such edit. In particular, hooks will be shortened if they are deemed too long: the 200-character limit is an outside limit, not a recommended length. Also, watch the suggestions page to ensure that no issues have been raised about your hook, because if you do not respond to issues raised your hook may not be featured at all.
Articles on living individuals must be carefully checked to ensure that no unsourced or poorly sourced negative material is included. Articles and hooks which focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided.
Other issues
Pictures: Pictures accompanying the DYK hook should be:
freely licensed suitably and freely (PD, GFDL, CC etc) licensed (NOT fair use) because the main page can only have freely licensed pictures;
suitable, attractive, and interesting at a 100x100px-wide resolution;
already in the article; and
relevant to the article.
Sounds: Sounds accompanying the DYK hook should have similar qualities to pictures, and should be formatted using {{DYK Listen|filename.ogg|Brief description}}
Sample DYK suggestion strings
Please use one of the strings below to post your DYK nomination, using the "author" and "nominator" fields to identify the users who should receive credit for their contributions if the hook is featured on the main page.
Nom without image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= }}
Nom with image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= | image= | caption= }}
To include more than one new or expanded article in a single hook:|article2=|article3=|article4= | (etc)
To include more than one author:|author2=|author3= | (etc)
To include alternate hooks:|ALT1=|ALT2= | (etc)
To add a comment:|comment=
To add the article you reviewed:|reviewed=
Do not wikilink the article title, or the author username field; the template will wikilink them automatically. Do wikilink the article title in the hook field, however. Do not add a section heading if you are using the template; the template will add one for you. Do not include a signature (~~~~) after the template. Do not use non-free images in your hook suggestion.
Note that you should only use one of the above templates for the original hook. If you want to suggest a second, alternative hook for the same article submission, just type it in manually. The above templates output useful code for each submission and if you employ them for alternative hooks, you will mess up the page formatting.
When saving your suggestion, please add the name of the suggested article to your edit summary.
Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
If you nominate someone else's article, you can use {{subst:DYKNom}} to notify them. Usage: {{subst:DYKNom|Article name|January 9}} Thanks, ~~~~
Symbols
If you want to confirm that an article is ready to be placed on a later update, or that there is an issue with the article or hook, you may use the following symbols (optional) to point the issues out:
Symbol
Code
DYK Ready?
Description
{{subst:DYKtick}}
Yes
No problems, ready for DYK
{{subst:DYKtickAGF}}
Yes
Article is ready for DYK, with a foreign-language or offline hook reference accepted in good faith
{{subst:DYK?}}
Query
DYK eligibility requires that an issue be addressed. Notify nominator with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article}}
{{subst:DYK?no}}
Maybe
DYK eligibility requires some additional work. Notify nominator with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article}}
{{subst:DYKno}}
No
Article is either completely ineligible, or else requires considerable work before becoming eligible
Please consider using {{subst:DYKproblem}} on the user's talk page, in case they do not notice if there is an issue.
Next update
DYK queue status
There are currently 5 filled queues. Humans, please consider promoting a prep to queue if you have the time!
This page often seems to be backlogged. If the DYK template has not been updated for substantially more than 6 hours, it may be useful to attract the attention of one of the administrators who regularly updates the template. See the page Misplaced Pages:Did you know/Admins for a list of administrators who have volunteered to help with this project.
Where is my hook?
If you can't find the hook you submitted to this page, in most cases it means your article has been approved and is in the queue for display on the main page. You can check whether your hook has been moved to the queue by reviewing the queue listings at the bottom of this page.
If your hook is not in the queue or already on the main page, it has probably been deleted. Deletion occurs if the hook is more than about eight days old and has unresolved issues for which any discussion has gone stale. If you think your hook has been unfairly deleted, you can query its deletion on the discussion page, but as a general rule deleted hooks will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.
ALT1: ... that Koni(pictured) would often leave journalists with biscuit crumbs around her mouth, much to the chagrin of her owner, Vladimir Putin? (alt hook if mystery doesn't do it) --Russavia14:04, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Length, history, references verified. I don't really see it as a Christmas DYK...it happens to have Jesus in it but it's not Christmas-specific as far as I can tell. —Politizer /contribs17:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Your reference for the 1928 creation is a 1928 map, which only means it was assigned by 1928. Similarly, we know that the new alignment is shown as complete on a 1935 map, which means it was complete by then if PennDOH didn't jump the gun. But its non-presence on the 1934 map means that, if PennDOH never forgot to add a minor realignment, it was opened in either 1934 or 1935. Also, unless the 1934 and 1935 maps are more detailed than the 1930 map, there's no basis for assuming that it used Perryville Road. Finally, this is not interesting. Roads are realigned all the time, and there's no evidence here that this was anything but a normal realignment, built about eight years after the route was designated (and some more years after the road was first added to the state highway system as LR 311). --NE221:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Its a bad wording. I guess I am an idiot at this too. I mean construction and paving, not realignments.Mitch3221:09, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
It's still extremely common for a route, in the early days of state highway systems, to have not been paved when it was first designated. Maybe you could say something about how it no longer meets its "parent" (better term for that?) due to a truncation that eliminated an overlap? --NE221:53, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure about Misplaced Pages politics, but it was McChrystal's job to catch terrorists, and most people would consider his success to be a "credit". I don't think the phrase goes out of its way to take sides. Art LaPella (talk) 03:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
While that's his job, this hook implies he went out and killed Zarqawi himself, which is not the case. The article and references confirm that Bush "credited" him with killing Zarqawi, but it just meant he commanded the forces that did, he didn't actually kill anyone, and it has probably been a long time since he did (if he ever did). I think, as is, the hook is too misleading and awkward to use.--IvoShandor (talk) 06:59, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
I think that to be grammatically correct the hook should say anonymously, rather than in anonymity (the second would apply people didn't know him; the first that they didn't know he wrote the book) Other than that, things check out. - Mgm|10:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
I've forgotten most of my undergraduate toxicology, but "dose" and a mass unit like "milligram" don't look right together. You might want to check with a toxicologist about the wording, but I suggest shortening the hook to simply "... that as little as five...?" just to avoid that combo. --PFHLai (talk) 14:35, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
(Will respond in more detail on my talk, where this issue was originally raised.) 5x expansions have to be done within 5 days, the same for new articles. Comparing the page sizes from 5 days ago, there hasn't been a fivefold expansion, sorry. Best regards, PeterSymonds (talk) 01:47, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
The country was not known as Benin (but Dahomey) when Maurice was in charge. Did he take the title "President"? The wikipage List of heads of state of Benin didn't say so.
Article needs to be linked in the hook... But anyway, from what I can see, it's not a 5x expansion (12,000 characters to 42,000 characters, about 3.5x expansion). —Politizer /contribs02:17, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Two Class AA minor league baseball players attended the same college. Is that the best hook there is?? Also, at 1300 characters, the article isn't long enough to qualify for DYK at this time. Cbl62 (talk) 01:40, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately, Cbl62 is right; it's about 1277 characters right now, and the minimum is 1500. Is there any way you can expand it several hundred characters (which is really just a couple sentences) within the next couple days? —Politizer /contribs02:24, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I like to second that sentiment. I wish more road articles looked like this one. If an editor needs to make an editorial decision on what to include, please don't skip this one.- Mgm|12:08, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
ALT2: ... that Phil Ochs' song "Outside of a Small Circle of Friends" was set to a cheerful arrangement despite the fact that it was inspired by a brutal murder? — ] (] · ]) 19:25, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
The hook fact should be in-line cited in the article. Also, the hook needs to have something akin to (pictured) in it to use the image on the Main Page. -- Suntag☼13:17, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
... that when computer scientists and others treat questions such as "Would you like chicken or roast beef for dinner?" as yes-no questions they are exploiting a real linguistic ambiguity in such questions?
For DYK purposes, we rarely accept instances where a single reference "covers" an entire paragraph; we require that there be an inline citation next to each fact. For example, in the paragraph you and I are looking at in this article, the content of that footnote is ambiguous: it's at the very end of the paragraph, so a reader doesn't know if it's "covering" the whole paragraph or just the comment "Such questions are labelled declarative questions, and are also available as an option in those languages that have other ways of asking yes-no questions" (or, for that matter, the comment about intonation in Jakaltek). These referencing issues are exacerbated more, even, in cases like this, where the references are offline books so the reader can't easily check for himself to see what's in there. Therefore, a hook talking about the cross-linguistic variation or listing examples of other languages would not be accepted right now, with the reference the way it is; there would have to be separate inline citations for each example given in that paragraph (even if all the inline citations are all to the same source). —Politizer /contribs21:43, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Then it's your own self-imposed loss. You make daft hoops to jump through, that actually make articles look terrible, and you'll end up with no-one jumping through those hoops. Such overlinking is patently unnecessary for actual readers, who don't need umpteen links to the same citation in a single paragraph. If DYK (or, more properly, the individual people at DYK such as you) require such silliness, then that is simply bureaucracy, rather than anything aimed at making a good article. You'll find plenty of discussion about this dotted around Misplaced Pages on people's talk pages and elsewhere, where it has been repeated time and again that one doesn't need a link to a citation on every sentence, and that it is a quite reasonable and normal idea that links to citations at the end of a paragraph cover that entire paragraph. I suggest that you start with Misplaced Pages talk:Footnotes/Archive 4#Every sentence should have a reference?, Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Ailanthus altissima, the several times this is listed at Misplaced Pages talk:Citing sources/Archive Index, and this. Your bureaucracy here isn't to the betterment of the actual Misplaced Pages articles themselves. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard (talk) 22:39, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
As you wish. All I'm saying is, when you have a paragraph like that and then a single book reference at the end, if I as the reader don't have access to the book then I have no idea whether it's 5 (or however many) sentences all covered by one reference, or 4 bits of unreferenced OR followed by one other sentence that happens to have a reference. —Politizer /contribs22:46, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
DYK requires that the DYK hook be inline cited in the article for the article to appear on the Main Page. The inline discussions mentioned above likely do not address the circumstances where the article will be linked from the Main Page, which receives 3,000,000+ hits a day. -- Suntag☼04:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Generally when I use a single source for an entire paragraph I just note that this is the case in citation itself, I did something like that on 1st Gas Regiment. I am inclined to agree that if the fact is easily verifiable and the submitting editor goes that extra length to make sure a reader knows that the entire graf is cited to that one source then it really shouldn't be a problem for DYK purposes.--IvoShandor (talk) 05:03, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree with you, but in this case the fact isn't easily verifiable; the paragraph is a list of several examples, which in theory could come from anywhere, and the reference at the end of the paragraph is an offline source so most readers have no way to check. —Politizer /contribs05:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
A simple solution is a note in the citation that it is for all examples. Offline really hasn't a thing to do with it, as most readers in the western world would have easy access to a local or university library, while its not as easily verifiable (being offline), it's still not difficult. If a citation is truly redundant there isn't much of a point in demanding multiple cites, especially if it could easily be solved with a note in the actual citation itself, as I did on the gas regiment article. Just my thoughts. --IvoShandor (talk) 06:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC) Not that I even think this is that big of a deal or anything, if it were me I would just add the citation, because who cares? It's Misplaced Pages, but if we can make it easier for nominators, we should.--IvoShandor (talk) 06:18, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
As near as I can tell, the hook doesn't come from the Cruttenden supported paragraph. It comes from Greg W. Scragg (1996). Problem Solving with Computers. Since the source was presented in the article as off line, Jonathan could have made the hook a little easier to verify through the wording in the article text. -- Suntag☼07:39, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I was just suggesting that we could do another hook if the creator improved the referencing in one paragraph; that's what started this. —Politizer /contribs12:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I think Jonathan took your above 21:43, 21 December 2008 post to mean that DYK wouldn't accept the original hook unless Jonathan added an inline reference on the end of each sentence in the Cruttenden supported paragraph. It looks like this thread resulted from a missundersdanding. (It would really be ironic if the missundersdanding were from a linguistic ambiguity.). -- Suntag☼13:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I located the "chicken or roast beef for dinner" quote in this source. The hook should be revised to say something like "when computer scientists and others intentionally treat". The phrase "linguistic ambiguity" should appear some place in the article. The idea that "all" computer scientist are "exploiting" the ambiguity when they treat the question as a yes-no question is based on author Greg W. Scragg's opinion about computer scientist. However, it is presented as a fact in the hook. -- Suntag☼07:16, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Note sour plums, licorice root, and sweet osmanthus are in the Rocky Li reference; sugar and rose petals in the Li-chʻên Tun. Different sources seem to refer to the plums as "sour plums," "smoked plums," or "sour prunes," but AFAIK it's all pretty much the same thing. —Politizer /contribs07:35, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Re BorgQueen, suanmeitang is not a brand name, but just what the drink is called (like saying "orange juice" in English)...I don't know if that makes a difference or not. Re PFHLai: I don't have a problem if you fast-track it...I never knew it was drunk at hot pot places (in my experience, I would always get it at one of those nasty yanjiu shops when it's super-hot out, and drink it while I'm walking around or riding the bus)...if you can think of an ALT that works that in I'll take a look. —Politizer /contribs15:20, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
BorgQueen asked me to comment. Although the suanmeitang article capitalizes the word, it can't be a proper name if it has been made for 1000 years. A Google Books search shows the word uncapitalized, and italicized when it isn't used as a dictionary entry. Art LaPella (talk) 19:49, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I wonder if it's a HK/Canada phenomenom. I have no refs for the popularity of suanmeitang at hot pots (hence no hook for fast-tracking), but I look forward to having some suanmeitang tonight. Oh, well... Happy Winter Solstice, everyone. Cheers! --PFHLai (talk) 20:53, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
... that the stems of Asclepias cordifolia, or Heart-leaf milkweed, were made into rope and string by the Native American Miwok and used for skirts and capes? (5X expansion, Self-Nom)
It occurs to me just now that the Siege of Bastogne took place over Christmas 1944, so if someone wants quasi-seasonal filler for the 24th or 25th this might well work, with an appropriate comment in the hook. Shimgray | talk | 16:54, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
The hook is worded a little awkwardly (and so is the sentence in the article lead-in, actually); maybe it should be more along the lines of "the first work of music intended for instruments (rather than voices) to be printed in England"? —Politizer /contribs23:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I was trying to think of a good way to word that while the article; never did figure it out. Yours sounds better, but I'd lose the "intended" and perhaps the parentheses -> "the first work of music for instruments rather than voices to be printed in England" BuddingJournalist23:26, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm fine with the parentheses, but I think there should at least be commas if the parentheses are taken out. Or wait, something just came to me as I was typing this:
I don't think one could accurately characterize it as "England's first ever work of music for instruments". The source for this specifically mentions that it's the "first appearance in print" (emphasis mine) of music for instruments. What about "that in 1599, English bookseller William Barley helped publish Anthony Holborne's Pavans, Galliards, Almains (pictured), the first printed appearance in England of music for instruments rather than voices?"? I'm also fine with "the first work of music for instruments rather than voices to be printed in England"; I disagree on the commas. BuddingJournalist01:18, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Although, upon rereading, I'm liking the originally hook a bit more now too. For some reason, I'm not seeing/hearing the awkwardness anymore... BuddingJournalist01:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I'll leave it up to another reviewer to decide. But at the very least, "first work printed in England of music" ought to be replaced with "the first work of music printed in England." —Politizer /contribs01:29, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
That solves one problem (that pesky "of"), but introduces another: it separates "music" from "for instruments" leading to "printed in England for instruments". Hmm. There are so many permutations, but none of them seem to be quite right to me. BuddingJournalist01:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I think the new rewording in the article ("the first work of music for instruments rather than voices to be printed in England,") is fine. —Politizer /contribs01:39, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
ALT3: ... that in 1599, English bookseller William Barley helped publish Anthony Holborne's Pavans, Galliards, Almains (pictured), the first instrumental (rather than vocal) music to be printed in England? One might use "scores" rather than "music" perhaps. Johnbod (talk) 15:17, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
But there are still serious issues, not the least of which being the lack of references in the articlein general (there are only two references to anything other than the case itself) and the specifically the lack of a source for this fact. —Politizer /contribs23:16, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
But that source isn't presented in a context saying the laws repealed were the last sodomy laws in Australia. That information might be in the source (might because I haven't taken the time to read the entire thing), but it has to be presented in the article as well. —Politizer /contribs01:32, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
... that, despite presenting the Irish music television show 2TV, Dave Fanning claims never to have done any work on the show and didn't even know the location of its office? (new article, self-nom) --➨Candlewicke18:33, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The article is very good and meets all our standards (the only minor thing it needs is work on the lead-in, which I mentioned at the talk page). But this hook seems a little dry. Are there any crazy little facts or anything that you could suggest as an alternate hook? —Politizer /contribs23:22, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
It's not the most exciting subject ever. How about:
ALT1: ... that the sovereignty of Canada has become an increasingly relevant issue in recent years as Arctic ice in Northern Canada has melted?
I verified this a moment ago, but I just realized we will have to check it a little more closely...since it was originally made mostly by combining other articles, I think we'll have to see how much of it really is "new" content. I'll try to take a look sometime soon, but if any other reviewers are reading this it would also help to have a second opinion, as always. —Politizer /contribs06:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
My head-count was apparently wrong. The article is expanded now. However, any help from German and Russian speakers would be appreciated, the main source in German at and in Russian , . --Soman (talk) 17:34, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
We might be able to get a more interesting hook out of Wu's assassination of Chen Xianqi, or out of the thing about Wu ordering one of his own commanders to mutiny against the governor and then killing the 47 survivors himself to cover his tracks (although that one might be too long and complicated to fit into a hook). Anyway, since I have my own Wu nominated on this page right now, I figure I should lend a hand ;). —Politizer /contribs16:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I added an image after Mifter's review, so you might want to re-check before promoting. It might be too unclear for the main page anyway. —Politizer /contribs17:56, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
If we're going to be using the graph, we can create a special version just for the main page, right? Seems an effective approach would be to take the graph, add a nice big red arrow under the relevant peak, and put "ELAN" next to it... it'll show up clearly here, and the article itself can still use the normal one. Shimgray | talk | 20:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with that, if you think (pictured, first peak) is unclear. Does anyone have Photoshop? If I added the arrow myself I would be doing it in MS Paint, and it would be butt-ugly. (and now that the semester is over I don't think I can get to my work computer that has Photoshop.) —Politizer /contribs21:03, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
On second thought, it may or may not be necessary, because at the request at Graphic Lab (linked above in Suntag's post) I asked for them to enlarge the labels on each peak...if those labels are enlarged long enough to show up well on the main page, maybe we could just replace (pictured, first peak) in the hook with (pictured, N1)? —Politizer /contribs21:05, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Ideally it should be an SVG file, but until it gets converted, I'll give it a polish in Photoshop nonetheless. » \ / (⁂ | ※) 21:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I imagine whoever does it at Graphic Lab will probably be vectorizing it, so maybe it's better to wait until that version is available? Suntag, do you know what the turnover is usually like over there? —Politizer /contribs21:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The above vectorized image isn't looking so hot at 100x100px. Either we can use a bigger image (?) or have one prepared to appear clear at 100x100px. -- Suntag☼03:39, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I just tried cropping it to show only the one peak...so it's back to JPEG (i did it in Paint, like a hobo) but might show up better. Only problem is now there's no x-axis...and did I mention it's a JPEG again (so the labels are clearer now, but it looks choppy around the edges)? —Politizer /contribs03:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Is this an appropriate subject for the main page? I don't think so myself, but I am willing to accept that views may be different on this. Still, this should be discussed. --Nlu (talk) 14:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
I thought about that before nominating the article. I am personally opposed to suicide or assisted suicide except in the most extreme situations and recognize this is a topic on which people have strongly differing viewpoints. However, Ratel has put together a well-written and well-researched article on an inportant topic of public debate that is not done in a expolitative way. So I thought it worthy of a DYK nomination. On reflection, the hook may be interpreted by some as having a promotional tone, which I did not intend. If someone wants to propose an alternative hook for this, feel free. Cbl62 (talk) 14:55, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
DYKs hooks shouldn't be put in a negative way, but this hook is simply telling where they are marketed from. If the hook was something like... oh... I don't know... "... that suicide bags are used to assist people in committing suicide?" (I don;t even know if that is true since I didn't thoroughly read through the article)... then that would be negative. This hook seems fine. I'm open to anyone who disagrees... – RyanCross (talk) 01:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
To say that this article is an endorsement of suicide is to say that articles about war represent an endorsement of military conflict. Ecoleetage (talk) 02:54, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Where did I (or anyone else) say that this is an endorsement of suicide? But while articles on sexual behavior do not represent an endorsement to engage in such behaviors, sexually-related articles are, while not prohibited, still generally avoided on the main page. I do believe this article presents a problem; whether that problem is big enough to prevent it from being a DYK article is the question. --Nlu (talk) 22:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I never said you said it was endorsement of suicide... I was just saying. Anyway, I agree it is a kind of "problem". I'll let someone else comment. – RyanCross (talk) 03:42, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I think it is important to consider that suicide is illegal in most countries. Of course many people think it should not be, but that's another question. Steve Dufour (talk) 07:55, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
The "illegal" part doesn't bother me so much. Murder and marijuana use are also illegal in most places, but we regularly feature hooks on cannabis and murder. So long as it's not perceived as advocacy of the position, I'm ok with it. Cbl62 (talk) 16:39, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
The hook seems creepy to me, mostly because it comes across as an advertising blurb (compare "Did you know that Sony plasma TVs are marketed by Sears and Circuit City?"), but additionally because the product it advertises is one that might appeal to unstable people. A different hook is needed. --Orlady (talk) 17:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Seriously, though, I noted my reservations to the subject at the outset, but if the initial hook is found to be creepy, I'm not sure what hook about this subject would not be found creepy. A hook describing the design or mechanics of how it works would likely be found even creepier. Cbl62 (talk) 23:13, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
(alt.hook)... that an exit bag, consisting of a large, clear plastic bag with a drawstring, is a commercially available device for committing suicide? -- (Hopefully this is less creepy and doesn't sound like an advertisement.... For use on Dec.28th? That's equivalent to "April Fools' Day" in the Spanish-speaking world....) PFHLai (talk) 23:33, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Combined duplicate nomination from the 20th to an existing nom from the 19th, moved based on history of work on this article in mainspace to the 18th. - Dravecky (talk) 19:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
This article was created on Dec 2, and expansion began on the 18th, but I'm afraid it's not a fivefold expansion. Not counting lists, it's 835 chars → 2,455 = 3x expansion. JamieS9320:10, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Note: The author is continuing to expand the article to hopefully meet the 5x requirement – I'm leaving this entry here for at least a couple more days to give the nominator some time to work on it. JamieS9304:04, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
ALT1 ... that Itzamnaaj K'awiil, king of the Classic PeriodMaya city of Dos Pilas in Guatemala was so embarrassed about being born in exile that the calendar dates recording his birth were altered?
ALT2 ... that B'alaj Chan K’awiil, the Classic PeriodMaya king of Dos Pilas in Guatemala, dramatically switched sides to become the vassal of his long standing enemy after 20 years of loyal service?
ALT3... that a principal work of mathematician Wilhelm Cauer was twice destroyed during World War Two and was only published after his death by his family who reconstructed it from the table of contents?
ALT1... that the career of the mathematician Wilhelm Cauer, known for filter design, was stifled because he had a notable Jewish ancestor, Daniel Itzig?
Date and 5x+ expansion verified. Not a very hooky hook, but OK. A combination of an on-line (for the government post) and off-line (for having been the mayor) refs accepted. Nsk92 (talk) 14:23, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't be of any real problem, but just pointing out that the hook length is 203 characters. Usually not enough to cause any major stir--up. Mastrchf (/c) 14:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Nice, well-referenced article. Length and creation date verified, but there are a couple of things - first off, the hook is about Peterman's father, but the article is about Peterman Jr; this needs to be clarified in the hook. Also, the Google Books ref (#2) doesn't exactly back up the "first" fact of the hook. The book has a timeline of "historic" African American events, but doesn't really say that Frank's father was the first African American to win a primary election there. JamieS9320:55, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Read the article more closely, and the source. Rudy Bradley, not Peterman, was the only black Republican in the FL House at the time and eventually did resign and seek a state Senate seat. Daniel Case (talk) 16:13, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Added an additional reference to the article quoting from the doumentary that used footage of Ringer and showcased his photos that sums up his significance. Hope that provides more verification as requested. Dgabbard (talk) 23:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
How come the brothers have slightly different lastnames? Is there an elder brother named Gjøstean, and then younger brothers named Gjøsteon and Gjøsteun? --74.13.125.161 (talk) 17:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Length - Ole Georg Gjøsteen (1,688 DYK Characters), Johan Gjøstein (2,018 DYK Characters) - dates (17 December 2008), and hook wording verified. The hook is 202 DYK characters without "Ole Georg Gjøsteen", but I'll knock off the 3 letters for "and" needed to make a multiple hook. A few other letters needed for a multiple hook could be discounted as well. The references are in another language and not formatted to where I can tell if they are books, news articles, blogs, or websites. If someone else thinks the actual sources used are fine, then everything else checks out. -- Suntag☼15:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand. Blogs? Nearly all the sources, such as the ones supporting the hook fact, bear the cite encyclopedia tag. By the way the NSD link doesn't work inside a cite web template. Punkmorten (talk) 19:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
The expansion uses material from Chilika Development Authority, a site that seems to have a self interest in the Chilka Lake. -- Suntag☼16:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
ALT 1:... that Chilka Lake(pictured), a highly productive ecosystem with rich fishery resources, sustains more than 0.15 million fisherfolk living in 132 villages in and around the periphery of the lake?--Nvvchar (talk) 05:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Chilka Development Authority (CDA) is the only Organization (set up under the Government of Orissa) which is entrusted with the responsibility of taking all ameliorative actions and to maintain the lake or the lagoon. Ramsar Convention and the Ministry of Environment and Forests of the Government of India also deals only with the CDA as far as the lagoon is concerned. Govt. organizations do not have any self interest nor profit motive and are funded by the Goverment and international organizations for all its actiivities.There is no other agency responsible for the lake. Hence, only reliable references from CDA have been mostly cited, apart from ohers.--Nvvchar (talk) 02:17, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Your right. Chilka Development Authority is not the lake itself, so I withdraw any object in that regard. -- Suntag☼18:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I have problems with this hook. The lake sustains the communities along it ... well, all large lakes play at least some economic role in the communities on them. " highly productive ecosystem with rich fishery resources" is rather peacock-y for a Main Page hook. And finally, what's with "0.15 million"? What's wrong with saying "150,000"? Daniel Case (talk) 15:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
IMO, the more interesting fact about this is that he only used words that were spelled the way they sounded. —97198 (talk) 02:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Agree with 97198 that Rose's unusual spelling rule is the more interesting point for a hook. Also many references are bare url's. Cbl62 (talk) 00:26, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
ALT 1:... that the English dramatist Edward Rose(pictured) published The Rose Reader, "a new way of teaching to read," that only used words that were spelled as they sounded? The Luizer (talk) 14:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
The cited source for this is the book itself - I'm not sure what other reviewers think, but I think a secondary source supporting this would be better. —97198 (talk) 22:38, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
My own thoughts on this were that there are very few secondary sources for this particular bit, and that the actual book would give more information anyway. It has an introduction in which he explains the ideas, and if a reader wants to know more he can just read the rest of the book. Thank you for all your input! The Luizer (talk) 18:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
The current link at footnote 2 makes no mention of Connally that I can see. Footnote 3 appears to confirm he played a part in Close Encounters, but that's an imdb reference, which has been questioned as a valid source for DYK. Also, there is no in-line citation for his having been a county judge. Cbl62 (talk) 23:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Alt hook, "... that Muddasar Awan was not home when Canadian anti-terrorism authorities stormed his house, so had his lawyer drive him to the police station and turn him in after authorities didn't return his calls? Sherurcij22:30, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I feel the second hook is the best: no apparent BLP issues and uses the name of the article. But ... the cite from the Star needs more info: a date and a link to the online version of the story if still there, and if not the quote needs to be fuller. Daniel Case (talk) 15:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
This link says that, as of Dec 12, 2008, "A political scientist who advocates this approach calls this emerging field genopolitics." I didn't find the term in either of the two 2007 references cited in the article. Find sources:Google (books·news·scholar·free images·WP refs) ·FENS·JSTOR·TWL doesn't seem to reveal much. It seems likely that someone may assert Misplaced Pages:Avoid neologisms, which may be an issue if the article is linked on the Main Page at that time. I found a January 24, 2005 mention of the term and added it to the article, but that might not be enough. -- Suntag☼17:55, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
It's there - reference (in German) covers both sentences. BTW, alt hooks are not strictly true, as the ship was not named Empire Advocate at the time. Mjroots (talk) 07:10, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
The reference that is being cited for this hook says he followed the first 9 lessons of a language course. The article says he spoke no Russian at all and the hook says he didn't speak fluent Russian. That's three different meanings. - Mgm|09:45, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
First nine lessons of a language course = not fluent russian; I'll standardise the article to say "fluent russian" and that should sort it. Ironholds (talk) 14:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
I hate seeing "current politics" brought onto the DYK, especially in this case where we seem to be denigrating a "turncoat". Sherurcij14:59, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
That looks fine to me; can you take one last look in the article and make 100% sure that there's nothing else inadvertently copied from any of the sources? —Politizer /contribs06:27, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Article histories, lengths, and refs are all good, and at first glance it looks like POV and everything is clean. Can someone do a check and make sure none of these has been on ITN? —Politizer /contribs03:16, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Maybe I should post the hook I came up a few days ago, just to give DYK hook selectors some variety...
Article length and history good...but it's not the most interesting hook. Is there anything else you can dig up from the articles? They seem to have a lot of information. (Also, on a side note, I tagged Robert Bent Knox as needing sections.) —Politizer /contribs03:08, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I just happened to check in before going to bed. I have not made a double nomination before, but it seems to me that such a thing only works if you can connect them; and the connection here is surely that they were father and son. If being an Irish archbishop who fathers a British general is a bore, then that's a point of view... we could perhaps say instead that they were both descended from the first Viscount Northland, but to me that is a bore. If the nominations are separated, then perhaps possible hooks are
Well, I think it's possible to do a still-interesting double hook and focus on an interesting fact about just one of them. For example, here is a template for how it might go (I can't for real suggest a hook yet, since I haven't read the articles closely):
Article disputes seem to be resolved, and article length and dates are OK, but the source cited for the hook fact does not really support this fact. It says only "Philosophically based on the Marshall Plan in Europe, it sought to reduce the conflict potential of the region by promoting cooperation and economic stability." Anyway, that looks like a glittering statement with little practical meaning. I've tried to think of an alternate hook, and this is what I came up with (based on the article; I haven't necessarily verified sources):
Refs need cleaned up, too many bare URLs. Also, the dates in the article are often very vague: there are things like saying that Tharpe died "in the 1990s" or that a school was renamed "in the early 21st century." —Politizer /contribs02:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Article has tone problems, some of which I might clean up if I'm bored, but that's no guarantee that it's clean. And, could you please fix the references (adding the relevant date/title/author/publisher information, and making sure there are no bare URLs)? I don't think anyone will review it until the references are cleaned up. —Politizer /contribs02:34, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure whether the hook reflects how the Wahhabi Saudi Government would characterize the situation. The article indicates the sites are being revised as part of redevelopment projects. -- Suntag☼14:36, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The historical sites which lie in areas of redevelopment are definately not being preseved in anyway by the Saudis. The "dispute" on the talk page are merely the rantings of a disgruntled Sunni! Chesdovi (talk) 19:31, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Concur with Chesdovi on "definitely not being preserved in any way". (No remark on "rantings" but that's beside the point.) This has been an ongoing story for several years now, and I believe the basic facts are well established. - 00:58, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
"Not being preserved" is a long way from "systematically destroyed". There are also some contentious statements in this article, such as that the destruction is mainly due to religious fanatics - the LA Times article says a lot of it is through development. Also I think the al-Islam org website is of dubious reliability. The article also has a somewhat shrill tone. So I think this article needs some smartening up before it can be featured. Gatoclass (talk) 08:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Certainly it is through development, but few other than the Wahhabis could consider such historic sites, largely intact for over a millennium, to be suitable places for development. Again, Shias consider many of these sites holy, and even many Sunnis would consider them to be of enormous historic importance, but Wahhabi theology sees that as smacking of idolatry. Not my article (I just added links), and this will be my last comment on the matter, but I don't see this as particularly contentious. The controversy isn't over whether these sites are historic or are being destroyed, it is over whether there is a value to saving historic sites. - Jmabel | Talk01:02, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
It has not all been through develpopment. I think the hook & article can quite easily be justified with better sourcing, though maybe a rephrase is preferable, say:
The only problem with this hook, then, is that I don't see a direct reference for why he was arrested (just a lot of speculation in a later section). —Politizer /contribs21:13, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes, this is why I didn't phrase it this way. The idea that Trentadue was interrogated at all about the Oklahoma City bombing is essentially conspiracy theory. In brief, Trentadue was a convicted bank robber who died in custody under suspicious circumstances. The only alternative I think would be to emphasize the conspiracy theory nature of the article. Suggestion below. Ford MF (talk) 02:59, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone else called it a "conspiracy theory"? I also got that impression the first time I read the article, but looking at it now, all I can say for sure is some people thought there was foul play..."conspiracy theory" might be a little strong. I dunno. —Politizer /contribs03:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Removed the inline insignia image. Also, while having the flags of the state capitol flown at half-mast for him is certainly notable, I'm not sure if it's the most interesting thing for a DYK hook; are there any other good facts from the article that you could suggest? —Politizer /contribs20:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Verified. But the sentence for that fact was copied exactly from the source in this edit; can you go back through and take a second look to make sure everything else is worded differently than the sources it came from? —Politizer /contribs15:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Also, article says he's German. Sources say he's Austrian. It's easy to make a mistake since Austrians speak German, but that issue should be addressed as well. - Mgm|11:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Concerning his nationality, I found no German language sources indicating that he is Austrian, and since he works for a German theatre it seems logical to call him a "German" actor. (The accident happened in Austria.) Concerning ONEEVENT issues, he has given a single interview about the accident , in which he complained about the media attention. --Hans Adler (talk) 15:44, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
One event does not necessarily disqualify an article, and this man has done more than one notable thing. I'll look around for some German sources, because I can't find any more English ones. Regarding the name question: Ref no. 3 says that he lives in Hamburg, which would therefore make him German. ~theeditorofthewiki~ 20:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Daniel Case's concerns; maybe it would be more appropriate to have cited Notability rather than BLP, but either way, this is an article that I wouldn't be surprised to see someone trying to AfD if the throat-slitting weren't there. Regardless of whether or not he's notable, this episode does appear to be part of an ongoing police investigation, which might render it inappropriate for DYK. —Politizer /contribs21:06, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm seeing decent hits from Find sources:Google (books·news·scholar·free images·WP refs) ·FENS·JSTOR·TWL, so notability might not be the issue. The throat-slitting was widely reported and was accidential/unintentional on Schiller's part. I think the DYK objection may be that the text on the throat sliting is not part of a more detailed, overall view of his life. Most of the text characters are devoted to the throat sliting. A solution here would be to balance out the throat sliting incident in the article with more info on the rest of his life. -- Suntag☼13:43, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I honestly don't understand the objection to putting the throat-slitting on the main page. This is his main claim to fame, in the Western media's eyes. I have added a bit on his early life, but most German sources I find are mentions of him appearing in a play or something along those lines. Anyway, another alt hook (below). ~theeditorofthewiki~ 15:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm fine with the throat-slitting being on the Main Page. I think the above concerns is that the article presently reads as The accidential throat slitting of Daniel Hoevels rather than a biography. Such a main topic has obvious issues. Adding more non throat slitting bio info to the article may help. -- Suntag☼04:03, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
←Some more biographical info has been added, including the quote from Hamburger Abendblatt above (I have checked the German-language source and confirmed). With a bit more biographical detail, this article should be DYKable, although do note that I never normally work on "people" articles and am probably not best placed to decide! I'll see what more I can add... Hassocks5489 (tickets please!)13:06, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
DYKs for December holidays other than December 25, 2008 holidays
Note: As we did at Halloween, we are "breaking the rules" (including the unwritten ones) in that these articles were prepared in under 5 days but are being delayed. Post your DYK suggestions here on topics related to holidays of this season that are not listed at December 25 Holidays.
Two issues: 1. LENGTH. This does not appear to be a 5x expansion (based on an eyeball estimate; I haven't counted characters). 2. HOOK FACT. Verification of the hook fact requires the reader to do their own arithmetic to determine the difference in sizes, based on the reported 122 x 59 ft dimensions for the Rockefeller Center rink. Furthermore, I notice that http://www.ppgplace.com/rink.shtml gives the PPG rink's dimensions as 104 x 104 ft, which is more than the 9600 ft2 number given in the article (based on a different source). Revise the article so that it walks the reader through the story behind the hook fact. For example: "At 104 ft on each side (10,016 ft2), the square rink is more than 2800 ft2 larger than Rockefeller Center's 122- x 59-ft rink." --Orlady (talk) 22:16, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Comment Since Champagne is a big part of New Years Eve celebrations, I've been working on several Champagne/sparkling wine related articles for DYK. My goal is to try and get one related hook on each set that runs throughout Dec. 31st (I'll have more suggestions coming over the next week or so). I would understand if there are constraints with other hooks needing to be featured. Normally wine articles don't fit into our DYK "theme days" like Halloween/Christmas, etc so I thought I would have fun with this one. :) Agne/06:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
This seems an appropriate request and seems do able. Once it is determined which queue will post at 18:00 to 24:00 (UTC), then your three other hooks can be posted to the queues that follow that one. -- Suntag☼13:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
References for hook include the Oxford ref in the lead and the Johnson Vintage ref under the "Early history" section. Feel free to propose an alt if you see something more eye catching in the article. -- Agne/03:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
None of the sentences containing "pink" had an in line citation, so the hook can't be verified at present. Also, which sentence in the article supports the idea that "for most of its history, Champagne was pinkish"? -- Suntag☼13:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
The "most of its history" part is a summarization of the entire article which talks about the evolution of wine in Champagne and the relatively recent phenomenon of white sparkling wine. Essentially every reference used in the article give verification to that summary. The main part of the hook comes from the very first line of the lead which is sourced to the Oxford ref (currently footnote #1) as noted and the second to last sentence of the third paragraph in "Early history" to the Johnson Vintage ref (currently footnote #2). When I write articles I ensure that everything is sourced. When the entire paragraph is sourced to the same reference, it is redundant to add the same footnote to every other line. Hence the reason I point you in the direction of where the refs are. Besides, all my sources are offline anyways and so it is going to get an AGF tick. There is even less reason to add redundant duplicate footnotes for that. Agne/17:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
The article doesn't seem to say anything about "that for most of its history, Champagne (pictured) was pinkish and non-sparkling". I asked for the inline ref in case I'm wrong and it is standard typically applied on this DYK page. WP:OR states "Synthesis occurs when an editor puts together multiple sources to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the sources". While it may be true that the change from 5th century pinkish Champagne in the 17th century (or when ever) may mean that "for most of its history, Champagne (pictured) was pinkish," without such information being source to a reliable source, I don't think it appropriate to include such information on the Main Page as a Wikipedian editor summarization of the entire article. -- Suntag☼17:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I think that is a rather bizarre injection of OR synthesis. If published sources are saying that a region has been making still pinkish wine for roughly 1300 years compared to the 200 years that sparkling white has been popular, it is fair to say that those sources view Champagne as a being a still pink wine for "most of its history". OR synthesis would be if I try to create an entirely "new thought" from among the sources, not if I regurgitate what was it is already published in the sources, just phrasing it differently. There is no "new thought" being put forth here. But for appeasement, I added the redundant "for most of its history" phrase to the lead paragraph for you. Agne/18:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Well I think it's clear from the text that for most of its history, champagne was non-sparkling. I admit I didn't pay much attention to the "pinkish" bit. I'll probably have to read it again to satisfy myself that is the case. But I do think Agne could have made the article a little easier to verify. Gatoclass (talk) 18:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree that an editor or reader can put together the information in the article to reach the DYK hook conclusion. It still seems to be OR and with so much well sourced information in the article, I don't think we need to use OR on the Main Page. -- Suntag☼ 18:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC) Struck per edit conflict. -- Suntag☼18:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
There's a sourced statement which says the region's wine was pinkish until Dom Perignon devised a technique to make white wine from red grapes in the 17th century. Since the article also states that wine has been made in Champagne since Roman times, I can't see much reason to challenge the hook statement. Gatoclass (talk) 08:10, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Ah... I didn't know. We have different customs on this corner of the world ;) Article is good to go then. Chamal13:44, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
DYKs relevant to December 25, 2008 holidays
Note: As we did at Halloween, we are "breaking the rules" (including the unwritten ones) in that these articles were prepared in under 5 days but are being delayed. Post your DYK suggestions here on topics listed at December 25 Holidays, such as Christmas, Quaid-e-Azam's Day, The feast day of Anastasia of Sirmium, and Yule.
The hooks below have been approved by a human (– 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs)) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.
... that a president of the Oregon Senate crawled along a ledge of the State Capitol to access an unsecured window of the absent governor's office to place bills on his desk?
The hooks below have been approved by a human (RoySmith(talk)) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.
Lilium lophophorum flower
... that the unique flower shape of Lilium lophophorum(pictured) is adapted to protect its reproductive organs from the harsh ultraviolet light and torrential rains of its habitat?
... that in Greek mythology, Achilles promised to marry Pisidice if she would help him conquer her homeland, but afterwards he had her executed for treason?
... that blogger Charles LeBlanc interviewed a man who carried out a mass shooting the following year?
... that for cultural reasons the jijin was permitted to be worn by Catholic priests in China even while celebrating Mass?
... that in 1927 Berta Persson became the first woman bus driver in Sweden and was nicknamed "Buss-Berta"?
... that both the comedy film Starbuck, and the Holstein bull it was named after, had cloned remakes?
The hooks below have been approved by a human (~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk)) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.
Adrien Nunez
... that Adrien Nunez(pictured), despite limited playing time, was more highly paid than some NBA draft lottery picks while in college?
... that a specimen of Aquilegia daingolica was collected in 1909, but it was only described as a new species in 2013?
... that when Alexander McQueen, following years of criticism for over-reliance on runway spectacles, presented The Man Who Knew Too Much, it was criticised for its lack of theatrics?
... that Lars Chemnitz was one of the first recipients of Nersornaat, the highest honor in Greenland?
... that the principal songwriter of a song on Always Happy to Explode asked listeners to "love it for me, for I cannot"?
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_(cropped).jpg)
Limia tridens male
This version is a 264 character hook. I moved this version because there were duplicate paragraphs for the Norton International article. Art LaPella (talk) 17:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Length, history, references verified. I don't really see it as a Christmas DYK...it happens to have Jesus in it but it's not Christmas-specific as far as I can tell. —Politizer /contribs 17:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Your reference for the 1928 creation is a 1928 map, which only means it was assigned by 1928. Similarly, we know that the new alignment is shown as complete on a 1935 map, which means it was complete by then if PennDOH didn't jump the gun. But its non-presence on the 1934 map means that, if PennDOH never forgot to add a minor realignment, it was opened in either 1934 or 1935. Also, unless the 1934 and 1935 maps are more detailed than the 1930 map, there's no basis for assuming that it used Perryville Road. Finally, this is not interesting. Roads are realigned all the time, and there's no evidence here that this was anything but a normal realignment, built about eight years after the route was designated (and some more years after the road was first added to the state highway system as LR 311). --NE2 21:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Hook is 203 characters. (I'm not really one to talk....but still). —Politizer /contribs 16:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Date and five-fold expansion verified. Off-line reference accepted in good faith. Cbl62 (talk) 13:36, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Flag of Okinawa Prefecture
Lilium lophophorum flower
Adrien Nunez
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Production logo for Mingxing