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:::There were '''no''' comments in that thread coming close to a personal attack. <small><span style="border:1px solid #0000ff;padding:1px;">] : ] </span></small> 23:43, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
:::There were '''no''' comments in that thread coming close to a personal attack. <small><span style="border:1px solid #0000ff;padding:1px;">] : ] </span></small> 23:43, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
::::But Malleus, you keep forgetting - that is why Wikiquette was created. People have the chance to air out their grievances and then they are sent on their way back to working on the pedia. If someone has that much time to really be bothered then chances are they aren't working on the encyclopedia and are probably not contributing. ] (]) 23:45, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
::::But Malleus, you keep forgetting - that is why Wikiquette was created. People have the chance to air out their grievances and then they are sent on their way back to working on the pedia. If someone has that much time to really be bothered then chances are they aren't working on the encyclopedia and are probably not contributing. ] (]) 23:45, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::The wikipedia definition of "personal attack" appears to be an observation with which a bunch of hormonal teenagers don't agree. --] ] 23:52, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
::::Malleus a number of people have been saying you were trolling and being incivil on that page. I suggest you back away from it in case something bad happens (No I don't think you were being incivil, but look what happened A Nobody; people, including admins, are constantly atttacking and humiliating him and accusing him of acting in bad faith).--]<sup>]/]</sup> 23:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
::::Malleus a number of people have been saying you were trolling and being incivil on that page. I suggest you back away from it in case something bad happens (No I don't think you were being incivil, but look what happened A Nobody; people, including admins, are constantly atttacking and humiliating him and accusing him of acting in bad faith).--]<sup>]/]</sup> 23:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::I thank you for your advice, but I will contribute where and when I choose, not at the whim of prebusecent children. --] ] 23:52, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Revision as of 23:52, 6 March 2009
I am outraged that the AdminWatch initiative to level the playing field between the standards of behaviour expected of administrators and non-administrators was taken to MFD. It may work, it may not, but the defensive attitudes being displayed by some administrators leave a bad taste in the mouth. No wonder that so many editors simply walk away from the project in the face of unchecked administrator abuse.
The project currently has 35 members. A warm welcome to our newest members: ARBAY, Coldmachine and Floorhugger.
Cheshire's current divisions
Preparation for the local government changes in April is ongoing. You are invited to join the WP:2009ENGLAND taskforce to coordinate the necessary changes to articles, categories, maps, infoboxes etc across articles on England. Within Cheshire, the articles for the new unitary authorities Cheshire East and Cheshire West and Chester have already been created and need expansion.
The Cheshire Portal has been converted to use random selections. There are currently 8 selected articles, 8 selected biographies, 8 selected pictures, 13 sets of four DYKs (52 in total) & 6 quotations. The topics box has also been reformatted & expanded, to highlight more Cheshire content.
Espresso Addict has proposed aiming to bring the portal up to Featured Portal status in 2009. Current standards for featured portals suggest having 15–20 items in each section. The main content that needs to be developed is biographies, preferably of GA class or above and with a reasonable quality free image. Lots of well-known people have associations with Cheshire, including the Victorian novelist Elizabeth Gaskell, Nelson's mistress Emma Hamilton & mountaineer George Mallory; a list of suggested biographies for project members to develop is here.
The Cheshire Project Collaboration for the next few months is Crewe. In this time, we aim to expand it beyond its current start-class, perhaps taking it to WP:GAC.
This is the first edition of the Cheshire newsletter, which aims to inform members about what is happening across the project and to facilitate cooperation between people to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of Cheshire. To help with this, a questionnaire is attached about how you see the Cheshire WikiProject developing over 2009. Finally, if you want to edit the next edition of this newsletter, please volunteer!
Delivered on 19 January 2009 by Nev1. If you do not wish to receive future newsletters, please add two *s by your username on the Project Mainpage.
Ainsworth
I was able to find only one current biography and one turn of the century biography. Our dear boy, although more famous than Dickens 150 years ago, is basically ignored today. That is great news if you want to publish something real on him (we could chat about -that- sometime later). However, it might cause a strain when writing a Wiki page. Two sources is more than enough for a nice biography but it is still a shame and lacks variety. I found perhaps half a dozen references to various works and to him in some general books on Victorian literature, which can fill in some gaps. My obligations will be nil in 2 weeks, so I can start putting together everything on a subpage so we can go over what is there. I definitely think a paper could be easily written on how his historical romances compare to Scott or how he deals with Manchester in comparison to Gaskell among other topics if you want to pursue something outside for publication. Ottava Rima (talk) 22:11, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Any kind of "Ainsworth" house? When I go through the biography I can hunt down addresses for you to take pictures of (hoping the buildings still exist). I do know that works including those on Dickens discuss Ainsworth, so we can always use them to piece it together, but it looks like we are stuck with a structure of two biographies, and only one that we can really "trust" academically. I've been in worse situations. :) Ottava Rima (talk) 22:18, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't know of any Ainsworth house, but there might be a blue plaque somewhere, I'll check. Don't know why I didn't think of doing that before. I'll be happy to take pictures of whatever will help to tell his story. We may eventually stumble at FA, but surely we can at least do the man justice with a well-rounded GA? --MalleusFatuorum22:34, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I have more than enough for an FA and possible 4 or 5 scholarly articles (perhaps a book or two). The thing is, I don't have enough for a -Johnson- size FA, let alone for what Milton would look like. It just wont be as satisfying compared to the fame and respect that he had during his time. The man was greater than Dickens and yet snubbed by history. Blah! Ottava Rima (talk) 22:41, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to put together a substantial biography on subspace, then put together notes about books. If you can work on some plot summaries, we can think about how to work out a major set for DYK and publish a bunch of well written pages together and move some towards FA level. It should be fun. Also, since Ainsworth scholarship is so light, we really should think about publishing our own work, then having someone else add what we say to Misplaced Pages. :D Ottava Rima (talk) 20:33, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
His action novels? The first one I'll be reading is The Lancashire Witches, the only one that's never been out of print; I'm a bit surprised there isn't already an article on that. Quite a few of his novels are in Manchester Library's catalogue, so I'll make a start there. I take it that one of the books you've already got is Ellis's William Harrison Ainsworth and his friends? --MalleusFatuorum21:13, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
I meant to say -actual- novels but I obviously didn't pay attention to anything my fingers decided to type. I have Ellis's book, which would be good for you to have in comparison. I have two others, including the uber expensive The Life and Works of the Lancashire Novelist William Harrison Ainsworth by Stephen Carver. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:48, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
← I've used the word "gobsmacked" a few times recently, but I really was gobsmacked this morning when I idley thought of moving the list of Ainsworth's works into a "List of ..." article. Right there, staring me in the face, was the claim that Ainsworth wrote The Admirable Crichton. --MalleusFatuorum01:10, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Quite strange. By the way, I have first editions/early editions of 4 of his novels plus first collected editions (Vol 1-6) of the Ainsworth Magazine. I will upload some of the images. What I am thinking is to work on the biography, then have in subspage 6-8 different novel pages and maybe a page on his style. That way, we can have a large DYK with some well written pages. We will have to think of a unifying theme (or, we can just have his most "popular" novels listed and mention that he was bigger than Dickens at one time, which would get people interested). After the DYK phase, the rest would be easy. I'll put something together in terms of biography and notes on various books by mid-next week. This is going to be fun. Its about time Manchester literature received its due. :) Ottava Rima (talk) 01:44, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
DYK remains a minor mystery to me]. I'm beginning to feel like I'm ploughing a lonely furrow with historic computers so I'm looking forward to something more collaborative. Bear in mind though that the only resources I bring are whatever is available in Manchester's public libraries. Oh, and a brain as big as a planet. --MalleusFatuorum02:20, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
DYK has become political, as of late. It never was, but... My new strategy is to keep things in subspace until I get approval. That way, I wont have to worry about time constraints. Ottava Rima (talk) 18:12, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
User:Ottava Rima/Ainsworth biography. I'm slowly starting. I'm going to put all of the biography stuff there. Then we can talk about what is split to the early life, possible pages for some of his other family members (there is a bit out there). After I put together this, I will put together a page on his literary career, his novel style, his reputation, the Ainsworth's Magazine, and a few other things. Then we can figure out how much is summarized on the main page, what information is needed where, and we can work out the individual novels. I'm going to keep it on subpage until we get things mostly worked out. That way, we can move it to mainspace in chunks, have it go through DYK, and get Ainsworth promoted. He was ignored by history for writing historical romance, for being from Manchester, etc etc. We can make sure to return him back to his proper position and overcome the politics. Also, I have a few ideas for some articles that we can write along with possibly writing some introductions to some of his works and propose to get some of the novels republished (there are 4 that really should be). What a better way to give back to your community than by resurrecting Mr Manchester himself? :) Ottava Rima (talk) 19:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Would you mind if we move that to subspace for a few days? If not, that is fine. I'm going to add some of his other stuff shortly based on what I have. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I wanted to show you the size - User:Malleus Fatuorum/Ainsworth list of works. Thats just from the tiny collections and not all of the works and essays. I think that we could do a "list of novels" and have short summaries. Then have a "list of short stories" and a "list of essays". By using the bottom format, we could create a nice little set of pages that could be put up for Featured List. Would this be a good way to go? Ottava Rima (talk) 21:17, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Note - I will hunt you down some good images of Ainsworth. I also found some locations for his homes over the years to send you out and see if you can take pictures of. :) Ottava Rima (talk) 21:40, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Ainsworth is undoubtedly a worthy subject, but I have to confess that my motivation to make any further contributions to wikipedia is at an all-time low. I guess we all go through phases like that from time to time though. --MalleusFatuorum22:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Regardless if you stay at Wiki or not, I will drag you into working on articles with me (real literary publication types of articles). I need your understanding of Manchester to help. If I have to get you through email, I will. I definitely want to examine how his childhood in the "romantic" time of Manchester affected many of his early great novels, including Rookwood. He was at the spot. Since it would partly deal with the narration in trying to impart an emotional feeling of the scene, I would need some first hand knowledge. That, at least, will be what I will force you to do no matter what. If you refuse, I will dig up some dirt on you and blackmail you. :) It will be fun. Ottava Rima (talk) 23:36, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
No, really .. close it
I was in the middle of typing my reply when you closed the WQA. I was in the middle of removing my comments when you re-opened it. I would recommend that you remove my comments ("this is a subject at ANI now") and close the danged thing. (talk→ Bwilkins / BMW ←track) 17:31, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
There appears to be some confusion; I didn't close the WQA. In fact I have never closed a WQA. If you want to remove your comments go right ahead, but please don't try to stifle honest debate. --MalleusFatuorum17:37, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Manchester computers
Dear Malleus Fatuorum, thanks for Manchester computers. It is a very informative article, and here's a cookie for your article!
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Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:Cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat this cookie on the giver's talk page with {{subst:munch}}!
Happy birthday! It was the project's second birthday on 24 February, so thank you to everyone who's helped improve and Greater Manchester related article, not just our members, your work is very much appreciated. The last month has been very successful, with lots activity:
Nico Ditch stretches from Ashton-under-Lyne to Stretford and according to legend was dug in a single night to defend against the Danes.
Cine City in 2004
The Cine City, Withington, was the third cinema to open in Britain and when it closed in 2001 it was the third longest running cinema in England. It was opened in 1912, and demolished in 2008.
Current nominations: As of the completion of this newsletter, there are no GA nominations, but Manchester Small-Scale Experimental Machine and Buckton Castle are at FAC. The articles detail the world's first stored-program computer, and the best preserved castle in Greater Manchester. There's a good chance that one or more of these interesting articles could be promoted, so please keep an eye on them in case there's any way you can help!
Charles White (physician) and Worsley featured in the DYK section of the front page last month (actually, Worsley featured in January but was missed out of the last newsletter!). For details of the DYKs by the project that have appeared on the main page, see Did you know?
The project's cleanup listing has been updated with stats from 24 February 2009. As of 8 October 2008, 447 (26.5%) of 1689 our articles needed a clean-up, this has risen slightly to 455 out of 1809 (25.2%). This is encouraging as the proportion has gone down, and indicates the standard of the project's articles are steadily improving. While the high-profile successes of GAs and FAs are important, the project's aim is to improve all GM-related articles.
WT:GM: The project's talk page is a forum for discussion and to keep up to date with the latest project developments and initiatives put it on your watchlist! Recently there have been discussions on articles to be deleted, the congestion charge, how to get members involved and working together, and plenty of other stuff.
Sister projects
In an attempt to encourage communication between related wikiprojects, or to at least raise awareness, this section is dedicated to the important goings on of WP:Merseyside and WP:Cheshire, our sister projects and the only other user groups dedicated to improving articles in North West England.
WP:CHES – After a period of low activity, the project has picked up recently, with initiatives (such as beginning a newsletter and sending a questionnaire to its member) to encourage greater participation from its members. This has paid dividends with two GAs being promoted in February and greater activity in general.
WP:MERSEY – After being set-up in September 2008, the project is experiencing a period of lowish activity. While the project has a handful of FAs and GAs, most of its articles are unassessed; assessing requires no familiarity with a subject, so any help WP:GM members can lend would be greatly appreciated.
Other news
There is a meet-up scheduled for 14 March in Manchester for anyone interested. It is not organised by WP:GM and is open to all wikipedians. More details can be found here.
Get a lead/static image in every infobox of every town in the county.
After a flurry of activity in January, progress on the Salford article has slowed, but it is steadily progressing towards a good standard. If you think you can help improve an article, be bold and get editing! Although these are the project's explicit short term aims, we endeavour to "improving all Misplaced Pages articles that are concerned with Greater Manchester", so every edit is valuable.
The project compared
The Greater Manchester WikiProject is one of the leading UK-based groups. Some other projects are no as lucky as we are in the numbers of active enthusiastic users. Below are some statistics of the other leading UK projects and some geographically close to Greater Manchester.
There are now 46 active members of WikiProject Greater Manchester (with a further 17 members inactive since 1 September 2008) as 1 new member joined the project in February:
Majorly is an experienced editor who has recently decided to join WP:GM, and has been working hard on Cheadle Hulme. The project is always looking for new members, and if you spot an editor who makes good changes to Greater Machester related articles why not invite them to join up by adding this template to their talk page: {{SUBST:Welcome WPGM}}.
Reminders...
Images! There are some good images around, but more are still needed if we're going to get a "lead/static image in every infobox of every town in the county"! The requested photographs category lists some of the articles needing images.
Thanks for the review. I'll do some of the easier copyediting, but I doubt there are enough active contributors to address all your points within a week. Are you just picking an article out of a to-do list, or do you have some interest in Forth or programming languages? --IanOsgood (talk) 18:20, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
The article came from this list. Although I flatter myself that I'm pretty much up to speed with programming languages and computer software in general, I'm afraid that I have no particular interest in Forth. I think there's a great deal that needs to be done to the article, and what is likely to be the most difficult task is adding citations and reliable sources. I was tempted to delist the article as I too think addressing everything that needs to be done is a big job that is unlikely to be able to be done any time soon. What do think? Is there any point in keeping the review open? The article can always be resubmitted to GAN as soon as the work is finished anyway. --MalleusFatuorum18:47, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
How about adding maintenance templates to specific sections with your remaining concerns, and let it stew for a month or two before revisiting the article? (Or does adding such a template automatically delist the article?) Another idea is to find some of the more active editors from the page history and notify them of the review on their talk pages. Or maybe find another couple active editors with more programming language expertise to help out. Also, I presume you are referencing the style guide? --IanOsgood (talk) 19:34, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I've listed my concerns and drawn attention to a few of the sections that need to be cited in the review, along with the other issues I believe need to be addressed. If you or anyone else wants to add tags to the article then please feel free to do so. All articles listed as GA must meet the good article criteria, no matter what any project-specific guidelines may say. Of the seven examples listed as good articles at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Programming_languages#Style_guide only two are actually still listed and one was never listed. Those guidelines merely constitute advice as to content though, which is the third of the GA criteria. Every article must meet all six.
With the best will in the world, I am not going to embark on a search for editors to save every article which is in danger of being delisted. I have notified the project that tagged the article and I would hope that any interested editors would have this article on their watch lists and so would be aware of its reassessment. I will revisit the article in seven days and decide on its GA listing then. --MalleusFatuorum20:22, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
He won't pass adminship the way he's going now. He's too serious and trigger happy, and has too much pride.--Patton21:26, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Aw.. nuts...
You're not thinking I'm all bent out of shape are you? I was having fun. Later in the day I get a bit looser with manners. In the morning I'll be all embarrassed...
I apologize if I was too informal. That's what fun does; someone's eye gets put out some way or another. --Moni3 (talk) 04:52, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, but I prefer to stay as far away from Ireland articles and the issues surrounding them as is humanly possible. --MalleusFatuorum18:21, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
How about just stating the obvious, "... that John de Breton was Bishop of Hereford from 1269 to 1275?" No one said DYK had to be interesting, I once got Leon Johnson (a pretty unremarkable West Indian cricketer) past DYK with the hook "... that Leon Johnson, a West Indian cricketer, captained the West Indies team at the 2006 U/19 Cricket World Cup?", and – no offence to him – he doesn't sound as interesting as a medieval bishop. Nev1 (talk) 21:49, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
That's my kind of article. I'm always astonished when I see reviewers ask for hauntings to be taken out. Bung 'em in, I say! Perhaps we could collaborate on a witch trial one day? There's also the plague in Manchester which I'm toying with, but then Hanah Beswick deserves her shot at FA .... so much to do. lol: --MalleusFatuorum22:08, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree about the hauntings, including them is an exercise in neutrality but it should be done; I half expected more people to complain about the Warwick Castle article for mentioning them. A witch trial would be very interesting! It was good to watch the Pendle witch trials article develop. So much to do? I know the feeling, I'm eyeing up a list of castles in Cheshire for WP:CHES based on castles in Greater Manchester, plus Wigan needs work, and so does Salford... Nev1 (talk) 22:39, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Tain't my choice, it's Ealdgyth's choice. But I do think she'd be foolish not to go with my brilliant suggestion. :lol: --MalleusFatuorum22:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Do me a favour. Do you really think you're the first to wave that big stick at me? I'll tell you what I tell everyone who waves it; stick it up your arse. --MalleusFatuorum23:30, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
After reviewing the page, I have not seen anything that can be considered a personal attack. If you have a complaint, take it to Wikiquette. If not, then you are basically acting in a non civil manner. Ottava Rima (talk) 23:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've been dragged through WQA a couple of times that I can remember, but I'd never bother to do it to anyone else. It's just a pathetic waste of time; "Mummy, Mummy, Malleus was rude to me." Live with it bitch. --MalleusFatuorum23:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
But Malleus, you keep forgetting - that is why Wikiquette was created. People have the chance to air out their grievances and then they are sent on their way back to working on the pedia. If someone has that much time to really be bothered then chances are they aren't working on the encyclopedia and are probably not contributing. Ottava Rima (talk) 23:45, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
The wikipedia definition of "personal attack" appears to be an observation with which a bunch of hormonal teenagers don't agree. --MalleusFatuorum23:52, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
Malleus a number of people have been saying you were trolling and being incivil on that page. I suggest you back away from it in case something bad happens (No I don't think you were being incivil, but look what happened A Nobody; people, including admins, are constantly atttacking and humiliating him and accusing him of acting in bad faith).--Patton23:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
The