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Osho Follower

Osho Follower (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

This article is one big WP:NOR violation, using poor sources, blog postings, etc. The article's creator started the page in order to further push a WP:POINT violation from the GA 1985 Rajneeshee assassination plot, where he is objecting to the use of the term "follower" in that article. Cirt (talk) 21:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

there are plenty of good scources . I did start the article in relation to user cirt insisting on using the reliable sourced osho "followers" see our discussion hereSo as per his reliable sources I have started to create a page of Osho followers, it's true some of the sources will require clean up and some are from blogs /I read somewhere recently that blogs were going to / or are allowed to be quoted. Any way I am prepared to help bring the article up to wiki standard and reject the nomination for speedy delete. Osho has quite a few pages here and I feel that some of his notable "followers" will make a worthwhile inclusion . (Off2riorob (talk) 21:23, 15 April 2009 (UTC))

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hinduism-related deletion discussions. -- I' 21:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
• Comment: I count at least 10 links (as hyperlinks within the article's main body text, I might add) to primary sources affiliated with the subject matter, Osho, and 2 links to YouTube. Not really WP:RS. Cirt (talk) 21:46, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• I'm sure the article will get better with a little time and that there are other people who would like to improve it and do some work on it. personally I think the topic has a lot of value.(Off2riorob (talk) 21:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC))
  • Perhaps, if it were stubbed to remove literally almost all of the current inappropriate sources, and renamed to List of followers of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, with each entry supported by a satisfactory WP:RS/WP:V secondary source, that would be appropriate. Cirt (talk) 22:17, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• What is the use of this article? There is already an article neo-sannyas that needs developing. All this belongs there. Now, Cirt, look and learn. Here are cited Indian disciples who have nothing to do with any "Oregon power heirarchy" - never did. Completely different ethos. But in India they are now setting up their own little guru stalls, and now here is someone who wants to be a "Osho follower" - but the term is non-notable. It is simply an invention of the human herd instinct like your "high ranking commanders". None of these people has any power unless some idiot wants to join a pack. You two are both projecting your own fantasies. Please remove this page and integrate with the above article and, Rob, please refrain from this cultism - can you not see what happened in the USA. It is nothing to do with any Bhagwan, it is to do with wanting to be part of this, making the other the enemy. Cirt, also, you see? Redheylin (talk) 22:23, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

@Redheylin (talk · contribs) - Please keep comments focused to this discussion, namely whether or not this page satisfies WP:NOTE. Please observe WP:NOT#FORUM. Thanks. Cirt (talk) 22:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

To help those of us not so familiar with the movement(s) follow along, I'm including the relevant navigation box:

Now, I concede that I don't have a great background on the subject, but it seems to me that it's worth having a single article about those-who-follow-Osho, or an article about those who are a member of that religion. All sub-groups and variations should be treated within the same article, so that the reader can get an overview of the whole topic without a lot of clicking around.

There is already an article about Rajneeshees, and a separate article about Neo-sannyas. In my view, that's already one article too many. Now, there is this additional article.

So, there are two distinct questions: (1) What's the best way to structure Misplaced Pages's coverage of this class of people? and (2) Is the content and approach of the article currently under consideration appropriate for Misplaced Pages at all?

On the second question, I'd say that most of what's in the article is unencyclopedic. We generally don't list people who don't satisfy Misplaced Pages's notability criterion. So I'd be fine with delete, perhaps with the thoughtful merging of a small amount of the content into those other articles. -Pete (talk) 23:30, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Hiya Pete - there WOULD be one too many articles, but in fact Rajneeshees diverts to Osho. I think it was removed as non-notable - it should link to neosannyas. I say merge first ask questions later! Do not want to destroy work out of hand. Redheylin (talk) 23:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Cirt - it will help the articles if you see that your attempt to portray Osho as the head of a militaristic command at another page is original synthesis and that you have misquoted references to achieve it. Given the seriousness of this you ought to be grateful for my empathetic response. You ARE a person are you not? I mean, sorry if you are actually a machine, but you are editing several related pages and your edits add up to an overall policy which is your policy, your POV - and I am pointing out it is non-neutral, in a nice, kind, helpful way.Redheylin (talk) 23:41, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Again, 3rd time now: WP:NOT#FORUM. Your comments focus on a single editor and are unrelated to this AfD discussion. Cirt (talk) 00:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

(Cirt's proposal for deletion above)

This article is one big WP:NOR violation, using poor sources, blog postings, etc. The article's creator started the page in order to further push a WP:POINT violation from the GA 1985 Rajneeshee assassination plot, where he is objecting to the use of the term "follower" in that article. Cirt (talk) 21:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Cirt has introduced the question of the other page and the "leaders and followers" he wishes to introduce there, but now claims that these considerations have no bearing on the present discussion. I am struggling for a word to describe this behaviour. Redheylin (talk) 00:01, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Right - Off2riorob (talk · contribs) started this WP:NOR violation page as an illustration of a WP:POINT violation. Other than noting that, a larger discussion of all of these issues at this page is wholly inappropriate. This should be a discussion of whether or not the page "Osho Follower" should be kept on this project. Cirt (talk) 00:07, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

It should not be. But your proposal for deletion has resulted from the creation of the page, which has resulted from your own editing. which is NNPOV and which misrepresents sources to achieve OS (and you are dealing with biographies of living persons). It is therefore worth pointing out that your editing is responsible for the creation of the article, as you yourself admit, and that the whole deal, with your spurious warnings and all, looks sorta DISRUPTIVE. (I often use caps for EMPHASIS! but not for hostility). Redheylin (talk) 00:16, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Redheylin (talk · contribs) has still yet to present an argument as to why this page should be kept. Cirt (talk) 00:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

That's true. Redheylin (talk) 00:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

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