Revision as of 20:26, 29 June 2009 editRenamed user 1579654863 (talk | contribs)32,952 edits +anchore← Previous edit | Revision as of 10:48, 30 June 2009 edit undoThe Sceptical Chymist (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users2,854 edits →How about working on content?: new sectionNext edit → | ||
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== Just FYI == | == Just FYI == | ||
I replied at ]. ---] (]) 20:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC) | I replied at ]. ---] (]) 20:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC) | ||
== How about working on content? == | |||
As you can see from the discussion, I have done what I could and I encouraged people to write for a contrarian point of view. How about being fair and asking LG to "stop stalling"? Alternatively, you could work on content a bit and write a compromise version. Sincerely ] (]) 10:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC) |
Revision as of 10:48, 30 June 2009
Please add notes to the end of this page. I'll probably reply here unless you suggest another page for a reply. Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk)
I have recently removed several hundred pages from my watchlist, including more than 100 user talk pages. If I haven't responded to a discussion or a question you left for me on another page, please leave me a note. |
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Autoconfirmed User
Hi WhatamIdoing, I have a question, when I gonna be an autoconfrimed user?
I read wikipedia but I don't find anything.
Help Me! --Xopauxo wiki (talk) 12:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
- Usually after four days and ten edits. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:00, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Special education
Why did you revert the intro for special education? It is a perfectly good introduction. --Academiic (talk) 22:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
- I reverted your changes because they introduce outright errors into the article, remove information that is sourced and accurate, and are based on wildly incorrect information such as "Special education doesn’t really help them achieve independence" and "People suffering from profound mental retardation do not attend school at all as they are incapable of learning". WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
- The current introduction doesn't have any references either. So what makes you think that's right too? Mine makes sense. There are two types of students in special education: One who is truly disabled and one who is at risk. People who are at-risk don't show any deformity. The disability is invisible. Special needs children were abused in the past that's why they have special education to protect them. The goal is to make sure their childhood is safe. --Academiic (talk) 00:44, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
- Because your information is wrong. For example, people with profound mental retardation do attend school. They are capable of learning. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
- People with profound mental retardation are burdens of society. They require nursing care their whole life. How can they attend school if they can't even take care of themselves? They stay in an institution, not a school. --Academiic (talk) 16:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
- I flatly disagree with your highly offensive premise, but the fact is that every single child in America, regardless of the severity of disability, is legally required to attend school, even if there is no possibility of the child learning anything. For example, there is a "student" in my area that cannot hold a baby bottle, focus her eyes, babble, or even move deliberately, and yet she lives with her family and attends the local public school during the day.
- Contrary to your uninformed assertion, being placed in a residential special schools is still "attending" school. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
- Well in that case, that means that they attend "school" for their whole life. --Academiic (talk) 19:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
HIV TEST
I'm surprised you haven't been awarded this before!?
- Oh lord that's not me, it looks like they copy-pasted from the barnstar I gave you in a section above, but forgot to take the rest of my signature off. My, that's sufficiently uncivil that were I an admin, I'd block the editor in question. AIDS denialist perhaps? WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 12:01, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- Why aren't you an admin? You should give RfA a shot - it's a cross between spinning a roulette wheel and being investigated as part of a Supreme Court confirmation hearing. :) MastCell 16:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- WLU, I'm not sure that AIDS denialist is the right category, but I suppose it's a possibility. It's also possible that he just doesn't know how to differentiate between a speculative case report and an actual test failure. False positives in low-risk populations are pretty common with the oral HIV tests. I need to figure out how to contextualize and display this sarcastic "award". I'm really quite pleased with it.
- MastCell, my previous excuse was that I haven't managed to empty Category:Unknown-importance medicine articles yet. Since that excuse is pretty much "used up", my new excuse is that User:MZMcBride gave me a new toy to play with. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- One time someone gave me an asterisk (*) as an award. I took it. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 19:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- Aaahh crap. Sorry to USER:WLU, didn't know what that stuff was at the bottom, and didn't think it was a user. BIG apologies for that. MrAnderson7 (talk) 22:21, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
- WAID, I was going to suggest that you relax a little. A lot of my responses to your requests has been due to you being on the front foot all the time. It's just plain arrogant. How about giving people room to admit they stuffed up, and apologise without losing face. Unfortunately you don't provide that at the moment. I'm steadily loosing faith in wikipedia and perhaps the only page i'll edit is : http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_criticism. All edits I attempt are in good faith. I'm relatively new to this, so just learning the ropes. Perhaps if you throw me a little, I might actually make better contributions? MrAnderson7 (talk) 22:55, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
- Hi MrAnderson7, I understand that this conversation has been unpleasant for you. Copyright violations are a really, really, REALLY big deal on Misplaced Pages, and we have to be very firm about rejecting them, even if they're accidental (which is very common). Doubtless the website that you saw the list on didn't choose to tell their readers that they'd copied it from Virusmyth or that it was copyrighted by someone else, so it would have looked perfectly fine to you. If you'd said a month ago what you've said today -- that you simply didn't realize that the list was copyrighted -- then everyone would have been understanding. We've all made mistakes on Misplaced Pages, so we know how easy it is.
- For myself, I'm willing to consider this particular issue completely and permanently resolved, and to offer a helping hand if you run into any future questions or problems. Misplaced Pages is a highly (perhaps overly) complicated place, and I'd be happy to help you figure out the parts that I've figured out. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
- Point taken about the copyright issues, and I agree it's an issue that requires upholding. I endorse your efforts on this matter. I therefore apologise for inadvertently copying said copyrighted material, and will try and do better in the future to source information with greater thought as to where it came from etc., before putting my foot in it.
- Thanks for the offer of help, I am grateful for your understanding. MrAnderson7 (talk) 03:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
- One time someone gave me an asterisk (*) as an award. I took it. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 19:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Why?
Why don't you just leave me alone? Seriously, I haven't vandalized anything. I am just an inexperienced user that can improve. Give me a chance. Why? --Academiic (talk) 16:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- You're not an inexperienced editor: you're an experienced editor that is evading a long-standing permanent ban for abuse of multiple socks (33 socks as of this moment).
- On the plus side, I do agree that you're not a vandal (and I sincerely appreciate this fact). I add that you try to be nice to other editors, which is also a worthy quality.
- I believe in redemption, but your assertion that you can improve is unfortunately not demonstrated by your behavior over the last four years. That is, your technical skills have improved, but your content is just as bad as it has always been, especially in education-related articles. If you've made the same mistakes on Misplaced Pages for four straight years, why should I think that you'll ever figure out that information needs to come from named, published, independent, high-quality reliable sources instead of from your highly limited, very skewed personal experience? Why should I expect that in your fifth year, you'll finally understand the difference between formal, dispassionate, encyclopedic writing and tabloid journalism? I am skeptical of success.
- However, f you want to edit on Misplaced Pages, then please quit creating new accounts and pretending that you're not evading the ban. Instead, send e-mail to someone at ArbCom and ask to appeal the ban. You will need to demonstrate that you have figured out why Misplaced Pages cares about verifiability and sourcing. You will probably also need to get a dedicated mentor (ideally one that knows something about education and/or celebrities, since you like to edit in those areas) that is willing to check every single edit you make for, say, the next year to prove that you have, indeed, figured out how to contribute usefully to Misplaced Pages. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- Everyone makes mistakes in their edits. The majority of my edits have been fine. I provided references. --Academiic (talk) 17:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- Here are your last ten edits to articles: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Not one of them introduces a reliable source, and many of them introduce information that requires a source. Please: if you're going to tell lies about your editing, could you at least make them lies that are not trivially exposed? WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- The previous revision did not have references. I will provide references when I can find it. Just give me time. --Academiic (talk) 17:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- Per WP:PROVEIT, WAID is totally within her rights, and the excuse "just give me the time" is, bluntly, dumb. Spend your time finding sources first, then add them to the page. It's a common excuse used by sockpuppets, bored teenagers and other undesireables. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 19:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- The previous revision did not have references. I will provide references when I can find it. Just give me time. --Academiic (talk) 17:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- I added the references by the way. I'm not one of those people who say things but don't do it. --Academiic (talk) 19:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- This editor has been blocked as a checkuser-confirmed sock. I hope that she'll take my advice to appeal the ban, with a mentor to supervise her edits during a lengthy probation, rather than trying to evade it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
- I added the references by the way. I'm not one of those people who say things but don't do it. --Academiic (talk) 19:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
- The new user editing Alternative school and William A. Shine Great Neck South High School is looking like another sock. I could just block it, but it might be more profitable to run another sockpuppet investigation if you have the time to set one up. There might be other active and undetected puppets around. Dekimasuよ! 01:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- It's on my mind, and I've looked into it, but there are only five edits in the account, which makes it a little hard to build a logical-sounding case. It happens that I haven't (yet) ever been wrong with this user, but it's always possible that I will jump the gun some day. What's weird is that if she stopped socking and just requested another chance, I think she'd get it. She's not a vandal, and she occasionally does helpful things. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
ADHD and Scuro
Wondering if you have any comments? Thanks http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Proposed_topic_ban_of_user:Scuro_from_Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:31, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
User:WhatamIdoing/Header frequency
2,000 pages sampled. 1,547 had hits. It's essentially the "raw" data. I didn't do any analysis on it, though I probably could if you'd like. Sorry for the delay in getting the results—I've been moving / unpacking / everything else. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:15, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
WP:LAYOUT
PamD has a question that I think could use a better answer. Other than that I've made a BRD edit, discussion is underway, read here. It was an old COI that was unresolved, Archive 5, if you want to refresh. Let's get it over with. ChyranandChloe (talk) 22:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. I've read PamD's note three times now, and I can't make up my mind about it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- I know the order of the standard appendices is important, but I believe we should stay on task on the verification sections. There are also some procedural issues with the study you've design that would render the results invalid in an active discussion. I'll go over that in my talk. Replied, most of its exposition, skip to the bottom for my questions. ChyranandChloe (talk) 07:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- I'll work with you on User:WhatamIdoing/Header frequency. One question I have in mind is how you're planning on using this. I'm asking for what's on your mind, and what's on the agenda. ChyranandChloe (talk) 18:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- I'd be thrilled to have your help. The project really started with WT:LAYOUT#Appendix_order: Like most editors, I tend to edit mostly articles in a couple of areas. I haven't, for example, edited very many articles related to music, or popular culture, or computers, or military (and so forth: it's doubtless a long list). So what if articles in "my" area tend to be materially different from articles in other areas? How would I even know that, say, medicine-related articles were entirely different from, say, television-related articles? I have assumed that they're the same, but what if they aren't?
- So I gave MZMcBride a list of what are probably the more common appendix headers (taken from WP:CITE and my memory of previous discussions), and he has very kindly provided the headers from a random sample of 2,000 articles. (I don't know the randomization method and therefore can't vouch for it, but I have no reason to suspect it to be materially biased for this purpose.) I've split up the table into more manageable chunks and figure that if I can do a little bit every day or two, then in a month or so, we might have some useful information.
- I consider this a pilot study, meaning that part of what we need to do is to validate the study criteria (=the list of headers I gave to MZMcBride). I'm not too worried about including rare ones, but excluding important ones should trigger a re-run (with a newly selected list of 2,000 articles). Feel free to list "potentially missing" headers at the top (and to simultaneously add them to the table for the relevant article).
- At the moment, my goal is to identify the "out of order" articles. Most of the time, this is a trivial exercise, but sometimes it requires looking at the article (thus the "Maybe" category). The "in order" (including "single appendix") articles can be pretty much ignored (except for determining that how frequent they are). After we have identified the "non-compliant" articles, we will want to figure out whether there's a pattern with the non-compliance (for example, whether ==See also== frequently ends up at the end, like Lima says s/he encounters fairly often).
- I'm open to suggestions for improvement or further questions to consider with this dataset, or to let you develop and answer your own questions in parallel.
- As for the agenda: At bottom, my real agenda is to satisfy my own curiosity about the order; I like knowing whether my assumptions are correct. If it turns out that we have a substantial disagreement with the order of appendices, then we should probably propose changes to the relevant guidelines. If we don't, then we might be able to use it (or a report based on it) to support the WP:PEREN item (because perhaps "my" articles are the normal ones, and "Lima's" articles are the strange ones, and if so, then perhaps people like Lima would like to see how they compare instead of just being told that "we said so").
- In terms of section headings, I think that it would be stupid to reject rare headers simply because they're uncommon. I think it is sensible for pages like WP:LAYOUT and WP:CITE to use the most common headers in the examples (assuming the given header is appropriate to the issue being illustrated). It might even be helpful to identify the most common choices as being the most common (some people want the articles they write to look as "normal" as possible). However, I believe that good editorial judgment in the specific article, and the principle of conservancy and avoiding pointless edit wars, is far more important than imposing a "One True™ Answer" for how you label the section that contains the list of works cited.
- Oh, and just in case anyone else wants to join in: YES, you're welcome to help out. Feel free to add columns to address new questions, to check articles to make sure that all appendices are included, to add any missing headers, and so forth. My only important request is that you (please!) don't "update" the table to reflect the "new" order if an article has been edited since this list was generated. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:12, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- I know the order of the standard appendices is important, but I believe we should stay on task on the verification sections. There are also some procedural issues with the study you've design that would render the results invalid in an active discussion. I'll go over that in my talk. Replied, most of its exposition, skip to the bottom for my questions. ChyranandChloe (talk) 07:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Compiled 245 entries from Break 0, 14, and 15. I believe the results are enough to establish and end to the pilot study from which we should begin planning for the full fledged one. Here are the results, assumptions are satisfied to run these inferences reliably:
Category | Count | Proportion | Error‡ |
---|---|---|---|
Single | 114 | 46.53% | ±6.246% |
Yes | 93 | 37.959% | ±6.0765% |
No | 35 | 14.285% | ±4.3815% |
Maybe | 3 | † | † |
- † Sample size too small to run inference reliably
- ‡ Error bounds are constructed with 95% confidence
Understanding the question, we're interested whether: "yes" the articles follow guideline or "no" they do not. This data is blocked so to articles with sections. We can therefore establish with certainty that the proportion of articles with sections that follow guideline is 23.674% (±7.492% error) greater than those that do not.
Blocking to only articles where the order of layout is relevant (excluding "Single"). The total is reduced to 131. The results are as follows:
Category | Count | Proportion | Error‡ |
---|---|---|---|
Yes | 93 | 70.992% | ±7.77% |
No | 35 | 26.717% | ±7.577% |
Maybe | 3 | † | † |
- † Sample size too small to run inference reliably
- ‡ Error bounds are constructed with 95% confidence
Of those articles where the order of the standard appendices is applicable. 48.85% (±10.8535 error) more articles follow guideline than those that do not. Maybe is defined as: cannot be established with certainty that it follows guideline or not. I've included as part of the sample size, but come to think of it maybe I should not. The cases are: Olav Duun, Minoru Torihada, and Oregon Files.
I think this is enough; errors follow a power law relationship, that is: to reduce the error bound by half you need to quadruple the sample size, to reduce the error bound by thirds you need to increase the sample size nine times, so on. I can run a hypothesis test if you want to determine how likely when we say "WP:LAYOUT is applied more likely than it's not" with respect to the given sample, but to my understanding more people misinterpret this inference than actually benefiting it.
Since we're working together on this, this is what I want to put on the agenda. We've established with the above certainty the results, you can increase the sample size, but it won't reduce the error bound that much. This is a pilot study, so in my opinion, we should end it here and plan out the real study. I want to stratify the study to article class (FA, stub, so on), in addition to clearly defining our goals, which I believe lack absolute clarity. Hope this isn't too much reading. Other than that, you understand this right? ChyranandChloe (talk) 23:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, I missed this message when you posted it. Yes, your analysis makes sense. I'm finding too many articles with "Sources" to be satisfied with this search string. Also, combinations ("Notes and references") and non-plural ("Reference") need to be considered.
- I think that we can get assessment class included in the dump, but of course we'll have to ask. What else do we want? WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- It's the questions you're asking, they lack the clarity I'm looking for. Sample proportions and binomial distributions need have end in either a yes or a no. Otherwise I have to play around (e.g. blocking to only articles applicable by WP:LAYOUT, and ignoring "maybe") with the data until I actually can run these inferences. Also you said you wanted to look into articles that use {{reflist}} and articles that do not. Before we begin a full scale study, you need to have this work out, because when I pull out AWB and fly through the articles and figuring out which article falls in what category—changing something is very annoying. I'm basically asking for a list of yes or no questions. When you're done I'll combine it with mine, and we can run a full scale study. How does that sound? ChyranandChloe (talk) 06:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- It should be possible to eliminate all "Maybe" categorization; it's just not always possible without actually looking at the articles themselves. For example, you might have Notes, Bibliography, External links -- which is "yes" if "Bibliography" contains full citations, and "no" if it contains a list of books written by the subject of the article.
- I consider the reflist template and <references /> to be interchangeable. The question to be answered is not a "yes or no" question: it's "What's section names do people use for listing the citations?" It's also (unfortunately, because it reduces our ability to automate this) an inadequate marker, because of its absence from articles that use parenthetical refs, from articles that list only "general" refs, and its use for explanatory footnotes instead of citations on occasion. This is more descriptive statistics than hypothesis testing: my point is to document reality, not to prove a point. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:03, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- It's the questions you're asking, they lack the clarity I'm looking for. Sample proportions and binomial distributions need have end in either a yes or a no. Otherwise I have to play around (e.g. blocking to only articles applicable by WP:LAYOUT, and ignoring "maybe") with the data until I actually can run these inferences. Also you said you wanted to look into articles that use {{reflist}} and articles that do not. Before we begin a full scale study, you need to have this work out, because when I pull out AWB and fly through the articles and figuring out which article falls in what category—changing something is very annoying. I'm basically asking for a list of yes or no questions. When you're done I'll combine it with mine, and we can run a full scale study. How does that sound? ChyranandChloe (talk) 06:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) When I use Significance testing and Confidence intervals, I have to break it down into a yes or a no. However, when we're recording the data, then I'm fine with just writing down the section title, and doing the break down later. The issue I'm seeing is: is there enough to adequately break down the information into something we can go on, and are the questions specific enough. When you did single, maybe, yes, and no. The only thing I could answer was: do articles follow WP:LAYOUT? The results are above. When you just wrote down the section titles in the standard appendicies, we've hit the issue: here are the section titles, but what are they uesd for? Here is what I've got:
- Write down the section title used for verification. If there is no section title write none.
- Is the article using inline references, general references, parenthetical references—if it's something else write unknown (and we'll determine what it is later one), if it's not applicable write none.
- Is the article using {{reflist}} or <references /> (I actually want to know); if it's not applicable write none
You're right, let me rephrase my question: what are you looking for? Think it though. When you're done I'll prepared a table of random articles. ChyranandChloe (talk) 00:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Arbcom
Hello WhatamIdoing, I have added your username to the linked above ArbCom Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder as you have had experience with dealing with scuro some time ago so your comments I think would be useful to give a historical perspective of the long running nature of this problem. If you would like to submit evidence and make a statement please feel free to do so.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 23:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- I was going to say that Scuro and I hadn't really crossed paths very often, but a quick trip through the list suggests more than I remember. I don't consider myself involved in the current iteration of the dispute. I'll think about posting a view. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
That is fine WhatamIdoing. It is entirely up to you. Thanks for looking into it.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 03:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, just wondering if you could let me know your decision. Looks like you are not going to be submiting evidence which is fine but just would like to confirm so that I can remove your name from the listing.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 18:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, I had just started writing a short comment. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, so it wasn't exactly short. ;-)
- I don't know how useful it will be, and I'm sure that it re-treads ground already covered by others. But if the effort to type it up and provide a few diffs does any good at all, then I'm satisfied. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:24, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I thought your submission was good and I do think that it is a help to get a range of editors views on the matter. I don't think that it matters if your submission is short or long, some diffs or lots of diffs. I think that it is important to just cite your experiences and views (with evidence of some diffs) and that is it. This next stage of arbcom keeps you to 1000 words max (can be much shorter if you like). I just basically summarised my previous evidence with a couple of additional diffs. :) --Literaturegeek | T@1k? 16:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Re Category:Viral skin conditions
As you know, I have been try to populate and refine this category, and in doing so, I have come to feel that a rename is probably warranted. Currently, there are conditions in the category that may affect both the skin and mucous membranes, therefore, I was thinking about renaming it to something like Category:Virus-related cutaneous conditions. What do you think of that name? ---kilbad (talk) 17:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- I generally dislike changing cat names except if truly important. I think you should worry more about a teenager, person who reads English as a second language, or very poorly educated person being able to make sense of it instead of being precise in a highly technical sense. Cats are navigation aids for real people, not formal taxonomies for experts. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- I agree with keeping category names accessible for everyone; however, I don't think something like Category:Virus-related cutaneous conditions (or some variation) is overwhelming for the general reader. Specifically, I think using "virus" instead of "viral" may be clearer to the general reader. ---kilbad (talk) 19:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- I like "virus-related" for the same reasons that I dislike "cutaneous". Have you considered having this conversation at WT:DERM? WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- Very few people respond to me at WT:DERM. I am usually the one responding. I will, though, post it over at WT:MED. Thanks again for your feedback. ---kilbad (talk) 19:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- It's a catch-22 situation: if you don't use the task force's talk page, then people won't read it (because "everything happens at WT:MED anyway"), and then they won't respond. I don't have a good solution for you, other than to try to keep the task force's talk page looking active. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:25, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- Very few people respond to me at WT:DERM. I am usually the one responding. I will, though, post it over at WT:MED. Thanks again for your feedback. ---kilbad (talk) 19:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
WP:EL footnote
I should have noted this in the edit summary, but I changed the footnote you added because, even if a reference is not reliable, WP:EL is not the applicable guideline. PSWG1920 (talk) 18:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- I saw the change shortly after you made it, and I fully approve of your significant improvement. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:31, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Parental Alienation Syndrome PAS webpages editing
Perhaps you could state your qualifications with regards to the changes I made to these webpages. You have reversed some of my editing and I have invited you to put forth your thoughts on the discussion pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JaniceMT (talk • contribs) 20:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages doesn't go in for credentialism. Either you've got a good argument based solely on high-quality, independent, published, reliable sources -- or you don't.
- More importantly, Misplaced Pages doesn't do edit wars either. You've been bold; your changes have been reverted. Now you need to discuss on the talk page. Note that the discussion is not about what's Good, Right, or True™: it's about what can be said about the topic while fully complying with all of Misplaced Pages's content policies and guidelines. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
DL
Gosh -- right after your friend Dick Lyon posts on the RFAR aganst me with an interesting attitude, I note your post mentioning him in the ADHD case. He calls me "one of the very worst editors" on WP -- but I guess you are on his list too? Collect (talk) 19:18, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- I assume that I'm very near the top of his list, actually. I hear that he has done some good work in more technical areas, but he doesn't appear (to me) to be able to do so in articles about transsexuality any longer. I won't say that he's incapable of improvement: the most RfC/U about him did convince him to cut down on his profanity. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
If Dick has decided that Collect is one of the very worst, then perhaps I have now lost that distinction in his book. — James Cantor (talk) 19:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, no, I'm fully convinced that you are #1 on his list of undesirables. The rest of us truly pale in comparison. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- Historically, James takes the prize; well, no, it would probably still be Geoeg, but most evidence of his existence was erased after he was banned for life. But James has stopped editing articles in which is has severe COI, so not such an active problem any more. Dicklyon (talk) 21:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Also, W, if you're going to say bad things about me, it's conventional to notify me. I of course take issue with what you've said there, and wonder how can you find my recent edits to that article to be anything but unbiased information based on reliable sources. Is there any sense in which Cantor's biased account is better, better sourced, more balanced, or anything? I think not. And I have not received any advice on these edits from Lynn Conway, if that's what you're implying. If anything, it follows more the suggestions that you and H made on the talk page. What are you smoking? Dicklyon (talk) 21:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
- I have smoked nothing of any kind, ever, and would probably stop breathing if I tried.
- My reference to you at ArbCom was relevant to why I don't want to be involved in the ADHD case. I think that those two sentences will clearly and succinctly indicate the limitations I'm dealing with. It really does not require any defense by or response from you, as it's focused on how I'm managing my time and energy, and therefore I consider notifying you of my editing priorities to be utterly superfluous. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ADHD
An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ADHD/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ADHD/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, —— nixeagle 20:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Thank you
Thank you for your comments at my arbitration. I know that you do not think hightly of me, so I very much appreciate that you took the time and expressed a sensitive understanding of my situation. I hope I can improve your opinion of me in the future. Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 21:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Guido
Guido den Broeder's appeal was handled by email.
Although we didn't formally topic ban him from Da Costa's syndrome, we will be reviewing his activity. If he resumes any kind of problematic editing, give us a nudge and we'll either expand his topic ban, or reimpose an indefinite block. I think that Guido understands that we have a low tolerance for disruption. Cool Hand Luke 01:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- Some people think that Da Costa's was one of the original (19th century) descriptions of what we now call CFS. This view is generally taken by pro-CFS people (like the editor in question, except that he's a splitter instead of a lumper by preference), and it's impossible to disprove, because DCS was actually several separate syndromes. Some fraction of the 19th century and early 20th century cases very probably were the dominant form of modern CFS (chronic orthostatic hypotension due to autonomic dysfunction). I therefore think it quite reasonable to include it in the general category of CFS-related articles on Misplaced Pages.
- Guido has a history with the DCS article, and I am not looking forward to renewing the acquaintance. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- I have not made any problematic edits on that article (or anywhere for that matter), and don't intend to start now, thanks. Meanwhile, please do not try to think for me. I am not a 'pro-CFS person' (if something like that has meaning at all), nor do I believe that Da Costa's syndrome is CFS, on the contrary I have argued, based on the available sources, that it is not. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 10:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- It is edits like this that suggest Guido has no insight into the reasons for his block, that he is deliberately playing with wikipedia, and/or that the block should not have been done. Let this be my first official objection to the unblock, but I am willing to let this play out. I hope if Guido is blocked again after this, it'll be permanent. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 11:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- Since no reasons for my ban were ever provided, I do indeed have no such insight, other than if people pile false accusation upon false accusation (like you are doing here) will eventually get any user blocked, Misplaced Pages being what it is. Note that you do not mention what you perceive to be wrong with my post above, thereby depriving me of an opportunity to gain that missing insight. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 11:48, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- I provided you reasons, as did the community when they banned you. I'm not encouraged by your denials. We hope that you are less disruptive in the future, and it's alarming that you cannot acknowledge past disruption. Cool Hand Luke 17:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- You can do many things, you can accuse me, block me and impose restrictions, but what you cannot do is make me acknowledge something that did not happen. As we are guests on this page, I will leave it at that. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 17:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- I provided you reasons, as did the community when they banned you. I'm not encouraged by your denials. We hope that you are less disruptive in the future, and it's alarming that you cannot acknowledge past disruption. Cool Hand Luke 17:13, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- Since no reasons for my ban were ever provided, I do indeed have no such insight, other than if people pile false accusation upon false accusation (like you are doing here) will eventually get any user blocked, Misplaced Pages being what it is. Note that you do not mention what you perceive to be wrong with my post above, thereby depriving me of an opportunity to gain that missing insight. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 11:48, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- It is edits like this that suggest Guido has no insight into the reasons for his block, that he is deliberately playing with wikipedia, and/or that the block should not have been done. Let this be my first official objection to the unblock, but I am willing to let this play out. I hope if Guido is blocked again after this, it'll be permanent. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/complex 11:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- I have not made any problematic edits on that article (or anywhere for that matter), and don't intend to start now, thanks. Meanwhile, please do not try to think for me. I am not a 'pro-CFS person' (if something like that has meaning at all), nor do I believe that Da Costa's syndrome is CFS, on the contrary I have argued, based on the available sources, that it is not. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 10:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Moving Pages
I am currently trying to edit the wiki Dyslexia page, which is difficult for me as I am dyslexic myself, and the underlying cuae of my dyslexia Auditory Processing Disorder, makes understanding the technicla methods of working in WIKI very difficult. Usually I only research a topic, and supply the research and technical information and let others do the WIKI stuff. I am a member of the Dyslexia editor team, and ohrer members of that teem who did the WIKI stuff seem to have lsot interest, and inorder to maintian the WIKI Dyslexia article I have had to muddle my way around the WIKI way of doing things. I have asked for help but none seem to want to come forward. due to my disabilities the stress of all of this editing is proving quite stressful so I am on a short time line, and the articles i moved appeared to have no active editors, This articles need to be in a new category regrarding the provision of Special education, the stutes, and support structures and the legla right so those who have Special Educational needs. I have no idea how to make these suggestions or who to, or how to go about creating a new category so if you can help itr would be appreciated
dolfrog (talk) 12:55, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages is an incredibly complicated environment. I'm happy to answer questions any time that you want to leave a note on my talk page.
- You have several goals above, so let's pick just one task. You said that you want to set up a new category. What do you want this category to be named? Categories themselves are placed in a tree structure, so what "parent" categories (there are usually two, sometimes three) do you want this new one to be placed in? WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Let me start by trying to explain my immediate problem. In the Dyslexia project, we have a to do list, which includes sorting out a section which realtes to Legal and Support issues for those who have Dyslexia the section is called "Legal and educational support issues" the problems is that the content is not really to do with dyslexia the condition, more about how dyslexia is regarded in diffeent countries around the world. All have different legal and statutory structures and different special educational needs provision structures, and we need to ber able to address these issues for all who visit the Dyslexia article. Now I am dyslexic, and I am best at researching information etc for articles, not neccesarily running a Category. But there appears to be a need for a Category that for the rights of those who have special educational needs, their legla rights, in their countries, and the support structures for those who have special educational needs. There are existing WIKI articles on these various topics so could they not be brought into one cxategory for rationalisation.
dolfrog (talk) 16:34, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Categories are quick and easy, which is why I suggested starting there. If you're not sure what to call it, then start that discussion at the WikiProject Dyslexia, and see what people like best. Then figure out where the category "belongs" in the tree. (This is important because it helps readers find the category.) For example, it probably wants to be connected to the existing Category:Dyslexia. There may be several such categories of interest. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I have give up trying to have a globla set of article regarding special education, but instead we have set up a new category as part of the dyslexia project Category:Dyslexia support by country which may interst you, you could even help with a new "dylexia support in the USA" article
dolfrog (talk) 20:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Advice needed
I am new to wikipedia and don't know the ropes yet, so would appreciate some advice as to how to deal with an editor here that has a point of view and prefers to obfiscate to preserve it rather than support it. Should I refer Medrs matters disputed to that page, (as that is what it comes down to), or seek a third opinion? Peerev (talk) 21:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- I have replied, but since I have disagreed with basically everything you've tried to claim, you probably won't like it.
- Please think carefully about what I've said there. You are going beyond your sources to assert that any symptom that has any connection to the presence or absence of food is proof of a food intolerance. You may want to find some very boring, very mainstream medical textbook (or similar) on the subject, to get a good footing in the actual issues. (Don't read the popular press: the idea that you can radically improve your health, wealth, and happiness through eating just the right foods sells really, really well, and consequently there's an enormous amount of garbage on the subject.)
- If you need more help, then you can ask at WT:MED for another editor. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for taking the trouble, and you are right i do not entirely agree, not because of popular press i might hasten to say, but because the edit is intended for a paragraph commencing. Food intolerance has been found associated with; Rather than asserting a symptom to any particular food, although the discussion had got a bit obtuse. CFS article you discuss was not intended for the article but supplied at SW request, and incidentally the author was the researcher who did the initial research identifying food chemicals not food per se, a bit of an expert!, the Article cite instead is a CDC current document. I think we can go from here thanks Peerev (talk) 22:13, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
- I don't actually have a "point of view" - I'm simply trying to keep all the pseudoscience out of the food intolerance article. Peerev seems to want to "believe" that migraine, CFS and other illnesses are linked to FI, and he is using dubious articles to support those claims. I don't give a crap whether or not it does, but I do care about people who try to use bad science to "prove" things. I'm not trying to obfuscate anything. If anything I say is unclear, let me know and I am quite happy to explain. --sciencewatcher (talk) 22:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Contraception
I've done some fairly extensive editing, which I'm hoping will justify a 'move', and changed my reccommendation on the deletion page. Take a look and let me know what you think. --OckRaz 22:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- Your proposal sounds okay to me. There's no good reason for Misplaced Pages to not have an article about Contragestion. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Dressed to Kill
I think it's time they get reviewed by an admin for a permanent block. See their recent edits. Don't know the process though.Mattnad (talk) 09:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
- I have added a section to Conflict of Interest Noticeboard here. Mattnad (talk) 17:15, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
- WP:COIN sounds like a reasonable approach. It looks like we've got a few more eyes on the situation, at least. EdJohnston is usually pretty good with these things, so I'm glad to have his response. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:11, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Question about sourcing
Hello again. I have another question for you. You have helped me in the past. All through the current month (May 2009) I been engaged in a major overhaul of the school violence entry. A few days ago, Alarics joined in the effort. He wrote the following: "As regards external links to academic journals, etc., I thought the policy was not to include them if they weren't accessible to everybody, i.e. don't put it in if you can only access it with a library card, but I've just looked at WP:ECITE and apparently that doesn't apply to links in references. I don't like it but I bow before the supremacy of the WP rules!"
I thought it was important to cite the appropriate sources regardless of where they are. For example, if a relevant article is found in the Journal Personality and Social Psychology, I should cite it. A reader who isn't a college student or an academic can access it from a public library. Can you enlighten me on this matter? Everything I write includes citations from the appropriate literature. Thanks.Iss246 (talk) 20:29, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
The question was just resolved. Alarics wrote me back to say he/she meant that we should not use web sites where readers have to pay to obtain articles. But thanks anyway. If I have another question, I will get in touch with you. You have been helpful in the past.Iss246 (talk) 20:36, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
- I apologize for not responding much sooner: Any editor that refuses to allow citations to scientific and professional journals because they aren't free is entirely wrong. Reliable sources do not have to be freely available to be useful and appropriate. This line of reasoning would result in banning nearly all recent books and magazines from Misplaced Pages, which everyone can agree would be nonsensical. Misplaced Pages:Citing_sources#Links_and_ID_numbers seems to be the relevant standard; furthermore, WP:CONV encourages linking to non-free sources (because adding a pay-per-view URL to a proper full citation (author, title, date, publication, etc.) does not make the citation any less useful than listing all that information without the URL).
- If this becomes an issue in the future, you can always get help at WP:SCG or WP:MEDRS; all the editors there will be very familiar with this problem. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Help me with the links and works
If I made an error about the wrong person which had the similar name or any other mistake, then that should be removed, not the other relevant links that were right, I can see how I made a few mistakes since I am new and wasnt paying attention, but most of my edits was right, so must I now comment on every site about her, which is quite a large work in order to make the work I did be replaced? Should I contact you on your page or can you see this mess! Peace! Saintbridget (talk) 23:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
St. Brigid
Thanks for your very patient help - I was not at liberty to have an extended discussion concerning linking policy at that time, and the Meta spam filter link is quite impressive - I had no idea there was so much spam on a single saint. I also have no idea why s/he contacted me in particular, but the timing was a bit unfortunate - your explanation seems to have made some progress. Acroterion (talk) 02:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for the note. I'm happy to help, and glad that you'll be able to respond as well. I hope that she(?) gets some responses at the article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Article Assessment
Hi What, I see you've been tagging large amounts of articles in WP:ANATOMY with WP:MED to them. Please remember that WP:MED's scope only covers disorders, conditions, ect. Not actual anatomy. Just want to give you a fair warning, as I'll be scowering through most of the articles to make sure they are correctly assessed and tagged. Thank you very much! Renaissancee (talk) 17:05, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- You might want to look at the dates on those WPMED tags. Generally, I haven't been the person placing the tags -- just assessing the articles that someone else tagged -- and these articles were very much supported as being part of WPMED 'way back when (when the scope included "anything taught in medical school"). The change has been very recent (guidelines amended three months ago), and we've made no effort to retroactively remove the tags. When I run across them now, I usually replace them with WikiProject Anatomy tags unless there's a non-trivial amount of clinical information in the article.
- You might want to be a bit more familiar with the ongoing discussions on this subject. The "consensus" to exclude anatomy articles is both recent and not very strong, although I believe that we are inexorably moving in that direction. I suggest that you read this, this and this for a sample of conversations at the doctors' mess; consider also this (and most of what follows it) at the assessment/tagging page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:37, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- One more thing to consider: Anatomy will once again become part of WP:MED if this proposal to merge WPAN into WPMED as a task force succeeds. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:41, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Alright, thanks for your opinions. Just out of curiosity...how long have you been with WPMED? You seem to be quite active and hopping around making sure things work well. Renaissancee (talk) 20:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not sure, because I started reading the doctor's mess before posting to it. I think I started doing assessment work in October 2007, and I've done (vastly) more of it than any other editor in the project. I have probably assessed about two-thirds of the articles in the project (some of them repeatedly). WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:03, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Alright, thanks for your opinions. Just out of curiosity...how long have you been with WPMED? You seem to be quite active and hopping around making sure things work well. Renaissancee (talk) 20:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
WP:CITE
I saw your comment, Bzuk and TedPavlic have a discussion going and I think they're starting to get into a WP:LAYOUT issue. Perhaps we need there needs to be a centralized discussion to accommodate the two where they begin to overlap. I'm not sure what to say. For example, Bibliography has two definitions: (1) reference, (2) works; and of the first it can be used for both: (1) inline, and (2) general. Although I've seen the it used for general citations more often. What is your take on it? ChyranandChloe (talk) 21:56, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- I have two immediate thoughts: The first is that there is no possible solution that will satisfy everyone, and the second is that I took WT:CITE off my watchlist because dealing with this unresolvable and perennial problem is not fun (especially since it usually comes up in the context of an editor that wants the guideline to support him/her in an incipient edit war). Here are some possibly more constructive thoughts, any of which you should feel free to share with anyone you choose:
- The articles that I like best don't have this problem, as there are no general refs in these articles. IMO, once an article gets beyond start-class, it shouldn't be using general refs any longer. If it's been a long time since the general refs were added, and especially if the article has been expanded and rewritten to the point that no current editor is capable of identifying what sentences might be supported by them, then I would consider demoting them to ==Further reading==.
- Articles that split their inline refs into short and full citations seem to use ==Footnotes== and ==References== successfully. It's possible that this system could be used successfully for "inline" (=>Footnotes) and "general" (=>References) citations (especially if there are no short cites being used).
- I think that an article that has one section of mixed short cites and full cites looks fine. I think that an article that has one section of mixed short cites and full cites, plus another section that is only full cites (either general refs or the full cites for the short cites) looks strange. It's not exactly uncommon (considering only that minority of articles that use inline/non-parenthetical short cites at all), but I don't like it.
- It's okay to mix general refs in with alphabetized lists of full citations (=the ones associated with inline short cites), at least in some cases (but see above demotion to "Further reading").
- Parenthetical refs should not be combined with inline <ref> citations in the same article. (Inline refs used solely for explanatory notes in an article that uses parenthetical refs for citations is just fine, of course.)
- I have, on occasion, used {{refbegin}} (etc) to combine sections of inline and general refs, particularly in articles that seem to suffer from appendix bloat. I generally list the general refs at the end in this approach.
- Nested appendices are undesirable and may violate WP:ACCESS.
- I didn't read that very long WT:CITE discussion; I just checked to see whether one existed (because if it didn't, I was going to recommend that it be started). If you think that there is a serious risk of the discussion creating new problems, then please let me know. We could perhaps attempt to interest people at WP:MOSCO if experienced editors are wanted. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Caregiving and dementia
Hello the allmighty whatamidoing, thanks for all your hard work! :) I was looking at expanding Caregiving and dementia into something like caregiving and degenerative conditions in order to link from the huntigton's disease article and use it as more detailed coverage of that aspect of the disease. I noticed you suggested merging the article into caregiving on it's talkpage - but can't see if you opinion was addressed. Before I get to work does your suggestion still hold true ? L∴V 11:32, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
- It's been a long time since anyone called me omnipotent.
- Yes, my concern still stands: Either caring for a person with dementia (or anything else) is significantly different from caring for people with conditions outside the scope of the article, or it isn't. If it's different, the article needs to say how it's different. If it's not materially different, then the article should be merged back to Caregiving.
- As for your plan to expand it, I doubt that you will get any significant resistance. The article is essentially unchanged compared to a year ago. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:35, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
- ...the pixel is mightier than the pen...
- On looking at caregiving, I agree I think it would benefit from the incorporation as c&d is better referenced and has a more general tone than a breakdown by region, I'll post a merge proposal L∴V 18:05, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Your Reply Re. My Comment in "Intellectual Giftedness"
About your recent comments at Talk:Intellectual giftedness, such as this one:
It's not fair to blame me for the unverified but trivially verifiable accurate information that was added by someone else more than five years ago, nor is it appropriate to call people names. Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Thank you. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:06, 18 May 2009 (UTC) (who, by the way, isn't a "Mr" anything)
- I "blame" you solely for making a sarcastic and snotty remark to me in reply to my perfectly valid challenge to the information provided in the article.
- As I indicate in my reply, by the way, the information is not "trivially verifiable". The person who added the information implies that it reflects some sort of widely held consensus among psychometricians about extremely differing levels of giftedness. My search revealed one psychologist who refers in any detail to the "levels of giftedness" table referenced in the article.
- As for "name-calling", if you want to avoid future unpleasantness, then, to start, try not to make sarcastic, throwaway responses to serious comments. I am sure that I can find a Misplaced Pages policy that disallows such comments as yours, as well, but I really cannot be bothered, right now.
- P.S. My "Mr." reference was solely in response to your remark about "Mr. Google". You could be a hermaphrodite, for all I care.Pernoctus (talk) 00:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
- I don't think that my response would be construed as either sarcastic or snotty by any reasonable person. Your response, however, was an inappropriate personal attack that unfairly blamed me for not having magically added a source to Misplaced Pages to support information that (1) I didn't add to the article and (2) was placed in the article several years before my first edit on Misplaced Pages.
- You will be unable to find a policy that prohibits editors from suggesting that you do at least a little research before declaring information to be unverifiable and worthy of deletion. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Re: "Before you can really recruit editors, you need editors to know that these outlines exist"
A few others whose brains I borrowed suggested that WPOOK have an animated advert banner. So Penubag got working on it right away. Here's what he's come up with so far:
Penubag needs feedback.
I've posted a few changes for him to make to it.
If you have any comments and suggestions for him, please let him know at User talk:Penubag#Chocolate banner.
Thank you.
The Transhumanist 02:29, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
- I've left a brief note on the page you indicated. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Pejorative 'Rating'
You left some sort of rating on an article (positional asphyxia) which I substantially edited, supported with references and have been taking the trouble to keep updated. According to you it is 'start' quality and 'low importance'
When I contributed, there was no mention of 'experts' coming along and doing ratings. If that had been stated, then I would not have bothered contributing. If I want my work critically reviewing then I spend time and effort writing a journal article, submit it to a journal and get it peer reviewed by someone who REALLY is an expert on that subject. My employers pay me for doing that, I don't recall you guys stating a pay rate for contributing here.
I've tried twice to remove the article but someone keeps putting it back. If you are not happy with it then why don't YOU have a go a rewriting it - that should be a small matter for you if you genuinely are an expert on the subject. If it is 'low importance' then just leave it deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.80.244 (talk) 20:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
- I have responded at User talk:81.155.80.244#Comments. I admit that I'm at a loss for how an accurate rating could be construed as "pejorative". WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:20, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Pejorative
–adjective
1.having a disparaging, derogatory, or belittling effect —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.121.22 (talk) 08:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Response left at - User talk:81.155.80.244#Comments — Preceding unsigned comment added by 06:56, 10 June 2009 (talk • contribs) 81.153.121.22 (UTC)
- I have responded at User talk:81.155.80.244#Response. Your talk page is on my watchlist; we don't need to spread the conversation across several pages. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Unsolicited Evaluation of Contributions
Value of contributions: Low (Makes pejorative comments on the work of others without contributing constructively)
Responsiveness to equivalent criticism: Poor (Defensive and unresponsive to core objections)
81.153.121.22 (talk) 18:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm sorry that you are unhappy that the article you wrote, but do not own, happened to fall within the scope of WikiProject Medicine. Your demand that WPMED not tag or assess the article amounts to a demand that you be able to tell other editors which subjects they are permitted to be interested in and how they are allowed to express their interest. Misplaced Pages does not grant this right to any editors, including yourself. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:17, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Further Unsolicited Assessment of Contributions
Arrogance level of contributions: Very High (Contributions assume a right to evaluate others)
Simplifying the argument for you: it's not a medical article.
Is that simple enough? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.121.22 (talk)
- I'm going to suggest that you might be overreacting. The {{WPMED}} tag simply indicates that the article might be of interest to people involved in the Medicine WikiProject - it doesn't mean that they "own" the article. It's actually a good thing, because it may spur some additional editors to come along and help you improve the article, as you've indicated you'd like. The tags are just a way of helping match articles to people who might be interested in working on them, and the ratings are useful because some people like to expand short articles ("stubs") while others prefer to copyedit highly polished articles. Nothing in the process is intended to disparage you or your contributions. We're all on the same side here. MastCell 20:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- Positional asphyxia (1) kills people with medical problems like Florence Griffith-Joyner, (2) gets written about in journals like Am J Emerg Medicine and Ann Emerg Medicine, (3) turns up in 46 articles at PubMed, (4) is a medical emergency, and (5) gets listed by physicians on death certificates as the formal medical cause of death, but it's somehow not a medical issue?
- That sounds pretty strange to me, but even if it were true, it's utterly unimportant: WikiProjects have sole and absolute authority to decide what is, or isn't, within their scope. "Scope" means "articles our members choose to support", not "stuff that a reasonable person would categorize as being related to our name". If they wanted to, the members of WPMED are free to decide that a kind of sportscar is within their scope, or that myocardial infarction and diabetes mellitus isn't. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Further Unsolicited Evaluation
Ability of contributions to irritate others: High (Contributions maintain a critical and superior character)
Getting the idea of 'pejorative' yet? (It doesn't mean factually inaccurate)
Pleased to see that you have finally got around to doing the most basic - and I mean basic - level of research on the subject. Shame you could not have done that first, before you appointed yourself as an expert evaluator. Some of your arguments are weak, they wouldn't be supported if you actually read the articles, but this isn't the place for that debate.
Just repeating for you - the objection here is to your 'evaluation' of material without making CONSTRUCTIVE contributions. If I had wanted to produce a medical article I would have done so, but I am sure you are more than capable of dominating that arena for yourselves. Evaluating it as a medical article is inappropriate - and the result is pejorative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.121.22 (talk) 21:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- The objection in the previous subsection was that the subject is not related to medicine. Do you concede that demonstrably false claim? WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:09, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Quoting from above..
"Simplifying the argument for you: it's not a medical article."
Note 'medical article' not 'related to medicine' - it is you who have stated it is of 'low importance' to medicine.
To help you understand the point...
There are articles on PA in law enforcement journals, written by law or corrections officers. These are not medical articles. It would be inappropriate for me to write a letter of reply in the next edition criticising one of these on the grounds it was not meeting the criteria I would expect of a medical journal. It would be an inappropriate contribution and the outcome would be pejorative. The original author would have good cause for dissatisfaction.
In the hope that repetition will get through: it's not a medical article. If I had wanted to write a medical article I would have done so. I am objecting to your 'evaluation' - without constructive contribution - which is pejorative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.121.22 (talk) 21:26, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- WPMED rates importance (to the project) based on the subject, not the current contents. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:29, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
- That's the thing - if 81.153.121.22 would stop shouting for a moment, it would become apparent that you guys agree. 81.153.121.22 states that PA is not primarily a medical topic. WhatamIdoing's "low importance" rating underscores that this particular topic is of low importance from a medically centered perspective (it may be of high importance from a legal or forensic perspective, I wouldn't know). In other words, you agree. MastCell 21:51, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I assure you
I am not trying to be a drama queen. I have no intention at all of messing with those articles for at least a year. Some people have enough time to write voluminous blogs etc ranting about how I have made those articles so bad. Let them come here and without me around fix them. If in one year they haven't changed much they won't be able to blame me. They won't be able to blame me anymore.--Hfarmer (talk) 06:38, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Arb comments
Wondering if you have any further comments? A response to your previous remarks has been put forth by Scuro. Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ADHD/Evidence--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for the note. Somehow, the page wasn't on my watchlist, and I'd forgotten about it. Today's not actually the ideal day for me to focus on this, but I'll see if I can find enough time to read and react to the comments. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
random question
I've been trying to update an article that has seen a single editor and (probably) his sock repeatedly revert and claim ownership over w/o discussion. Is that considered vandalism? Is there a way to deal with it so I don't keep getting my work deleted? Thanks for the advice. Fuzbaby (talk) 00:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- Nurse anesthetist? I'd start with a note over at WT:NURSE to get an extra pair of eyes. Sometimes, having an additional person is valuable. (WT:MED is your second choice, if you don't get a response at the nursing wikiproject).
- Right now, you have an WP:Edit war, which means that you need to stop editing the article. Remember: WP:There is no deadline, so whether your changes get included this month, or next month, or next year, is unimportant. Right now, you need to be chatting on the talk page about the smallest possible changes that you could agree to make in the article. Pick one little thing that you think everyone can agree on, rather than a dozen big changes. Explain why you think it improves the article -- does it correct an error? does it clarify something confusing? does it help the reader place the information in context? -- and what reliable sources you have that support it. After that change is fully discussed and either agreed upon (and in the article) or rejected and you're completely done with it, then proceed to the next-smallest change, and work your way through them that way, one little change at a time. It will take a couple of weeks, but the process is easy enough when you set your mind to it, and incrementalism works. Good luck, WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
TFD
I just wanted to say "thanks!" for doing that TFD ... I've been swamped, and I really appreciate that you took the time! Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:37, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Vandalizing TMWWBQ
This is a first warning to stop vandalizing the article and to stop making personal references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarlieB (talk • contribs) 19:11, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- Reverting unsourced claims about controversies, POV-pushing, and outright errors is not generally considered "vandalism" by Misplaced Pages. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
dyslexia and writing systems
Hi WhatamIdoing
the problem with all of the issues that have arisen recently have been cuaed by a great deal of miss understasnding, and a lack of willingness to discuss the issues and to learn from documented research. There is a great deal of resarch which I have been discovering as I have been editing the dyslexia article, I have been reading research paers now for over a month now, just to clarify the existing content of the dyslexia article. There is documented evidence that for some dyalexics writng systems can be a crucial factor, due to the varying orthographic structures, most common of the research in this respect has been to compare orthographies from the same Writing system usually the Latin Alphabet system, which we are now using as English is in that system. However not much research has been done until recently to compare dyslexic issues between the different writng systems, and the research that has been done has not been well publicised as it does not support the needs of the dyslexia industry. So the problem with the RFC was that the research was being ignored by all, but their ill infomed opinions counted for a great deal more.
In the UK dyslexia is mention by the governemnt in its legislation, and the governement are actually comittee investigating dyslexia and the the learning support needs, as part of a wider review of Speach and langauge and communication provision within the UK education system, which in turn is part of the even wide Special Educational Needs provision review, which started 18 months ago. The Bercow the review/report is the rewsult of the first stage of this long term Review. (Bercow can be googled and you need to download the longer report)
because of my communication disability I prefer not to have to type and write too much I much prefer to do the support resaerch, but the editors on the Dyslexia project who did the writing have all jumped ship, and in desperation I have had to do the required editing on my own, which was not my intention, WIKI poses many problems for me for using its own langauge or code, I have problems enough with ordinary text lol. So this means to get the job done I have had to jump into the deep end and I can only hope for the support of others when i make mistakes or things go wrong.
best wishes
dolfrog (talk) 02:31, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I understand a fair bit about how dyslexia interacts with writing systems, but that doesn't mean that your plan fits with how Misplaced Pages uses categories.
- Note that the question that needs answering is this: "Is the general reader looking for articles about writing systems going to be looking for information about dyslexia?" The answer appears to be "NO."
- You, on the other hand, are trying to address the importance of understanding writing systems for the purpose of correctly understanding dyslexia -- a very different question.
- I also object on the slippery slope grounds: if we added a category for every single subject that had a verifiable connection to the general subject of Writing systems, the list would be very, very long indeed. Category:Blindness and Category:Autism have every bit as much claim as Category:Dyslexia does: people with these conditions often have just as much, if not more, problems with common writing systems. Category:Vision, Category:Disability, Category:Congenital disorders, Category:Cryptography, Category:Learning disabilities, Category:Neurological disorders, Category:Education issues, Category:Developmental disabilities, and Category:Corrective lenses could make plausible claims -- and that's without even getting into linguistics, arts, culture, or computers.
- It does not serve Misplaced Pages to have dozens of categories on these pages. Adding too many categories is worse than adding too few.
- Yes: members of WikiProject Dyslexia are free to work on whatever articles interest them.
- No: members of WikiProject Dyslexia are not allowed to declare dyslexia to be one of the single most important subjects to writing systems over the reasonable objections of other editors.
- My advice to you is to give up this particular quest. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Comment of WPMED GA Articles
Yes, Although I've only reassessed a few articles a lot of them have been way of and neglected for some up to a year, so it'll be interesting to what I find. A lot of the articles are small genetic chromosone or horomone disorders so it gets pretty tedious actually. Nevertheless, I'll be on the lookout for possible C, B, GA, A or maybe even FA articles. :) Renaissancee (talk) 15:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how you're running your search pattern, but C-class is relatively new, so everything in there is more recently assessed (on average). Older assessments in Start and B need to be reassessed to move many of those articles to C class. You might consider looking through either Start or B class articles specifically. (B class, if you want the best odds of finding a GA.)
- Also, do you have a script to make the actual assessment step less carpal-tunnel inducing? WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Possibly unrelated questions: do you have any idea as to how the GA Sweeps process is coming along? Two or three of "my" GAs will eventually be up for reassessment, and I'd like to be around to ensure a quick response. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 02:21, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
- I haven't been following the GA sweeps, and a quick search on relevant links showed no particularly useful page that might answer your question. I suspect that the real answer is "whenever someone gets around to it" -- which could be a long time, unless you're volunteering to be that someone. ;-)
- There aren't that many medicine-related articles left in the review list, if you wanted to look them over. WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:30, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
- Possibly unrelated questions: do you have any idea as to how the GA Sweeps process is coming along? Two or three of "my" GAs will eventually be up for reassessment, and I'd like to be around to ensure a quick response. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 02:21, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
The dyslexia project: A new beginning
Hi All
I have added some new sections below which have come from various talk pages in recent days but all realted in some way to the dyslexia project. So I have added them all below, in the hope that we can all begin to add our own input as one person working alone can cause also sorts of problems as can be seen above. I will post a copy of this to all who I think may wish to the new begining of the Dyslexia project and a copy will appear on your individual discussion pages ( I hope you do not mind). The oringinal copy of this can be found at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Dyslexia the talk page of the main project article you will see revise project template, the changes on the tamplate is the addition of a Project pages section, which includes the orinal project pages and the new STAGE TWO page which is hopefuly the new starting point. the STAGE TWO page has the dyslexia article as it is now. And we can tinker with it without changing the actual article itself and discuss and issue we may have before making further changes to the article itself.
dolfrog (talk) 21:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
RE Misplaced Pages:Layout: Other Misplaced Pages articles that discuss the "header"
Hi,
RE your question whether other articles discuss the section header -- they are as follows:
- Misplaced Pages:Writing_better_articles#Headings
- Misplaced Pages:Manual_of_Style#Section_headings
- Help:Section
I'm not going to contribute anymore to Misplaced Pages:Layout -- C&C clearly has good intentions but he's very difficult to work with. Before I go, I just want to voice my concern that he is driving dissenting voices away from the page -- again, not because he's got bad intentions, but because his contributions are just so difficult to read and respond to. I don't know how Misplaced Pages handles situations like this. Good luck. Agradman /makes occasional mistakes 06:17, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you for your note. I'm sorry that you invested so much time in developing alternatives before seeking input from editors more familiar with the page (and, perhaps importantly, common questions about the page).
- You're clearly an excellent copyeditor, and I hope you will direct your considerable skills to more important work (i.e., anything in the main namespace). WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Just FYI
I replied at WT:DERM#Roseola. ---kilbad (talk) 20:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
How about working on content?
As you can see from the discussion, I have done what I could and I encouraged people to write for a contrarian point of view. How about being fair and asking LG to "stop stalling"? Alternatively, you could work on content a bit and write a compromise version. Sincerely The Sceptical Chymist (talk) 10:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC)