Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:42, 16 July 2009

This page is where I exchange comments with friends and other editors. All users are welcome to leave a message. Unless you state otherwise, I'll assume we are (or can be) friends. Feel free to leave any notes, suggestions, complaints, or anything else. I respond to almost anything reasonable, (but I'll only respond to vandalism or stupidity if it's funny). After archives, some items maintained due to value.

Template:Archive box collapsible

July 2009 Posts

WikiProject Films June 2009 Newsletter

The June 2009 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 08:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

so what do you know, really?

If one is born on a US base in another country, where are you really born? I believe that US bases, like embassies are technically US property, but if I was born on a base in Germany, would my bio read that I was born in Germany? I'm inclined to think so. What do you think? Law _{type! snype?} 07:09, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmmmm ... really cool question. I know the issue came up during the 2008 Presidential election in regards to McCain. And I remember taking in an immigrant couple from Germany years ago - He couldn't speak much English, but she could a good bit. They stayed with me for about 3 months until their visas ran out - I tried so hard to get them papers cause they wanted to stay ... but, there I go again, drifting off into one of those "Well, ... I remember when..." posts. ... lol. I guess I'd say the BLP should read "US Citizen Born in Germany", but I think in respect to BLP issues - that you should be consulted to see what your preferences would be. As long as it was verifiable, I'd have to say; defer to the subjects wishes, full protect the page - and block the first S.O.B. that tried to change it ... LOL. hey buddy, how you doin? — Ched :  ?  07:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Haha. That was very informative. In fact, you may have a career in politics with that type of answer. You have a chat talk IM thingie? Law _{type! snype?} 07:37, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, well, sorta ... I use Trillian so I can do Yahoo, MSN, AOL, and ICQ all at the same window. Haven't had it open for a while, but pretty much cheddavis@"anything". Rjd0060 helped me get the IRC thingie set up tonight - so I can ask questions .. and I tend to do that a LOT ... lol. I'll drop you an email tomorrow .. well actually later today .. with the specifics. Need to get a couple hours sleep here shortly, but do want to drop off a thanks to Rjd before I grab a few Zs. Just curious though ... you living in US or in Germany? I won't be offended if you'd rather not say, I'm just the curious type. — Ched :  ?  07:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Figure 8 racing

I went to some figure 8 races last night, and I tried to get a picture of the action for the article. It was very dark and I had to use slow speed to get anything. This DSLR camera did WAY better! I posted the best 2 shots on my flickr account 1, 2. Would either of these be helpful in the article, or are they too blurry? Should I crop them down (but then I'll lose perspective)? Please respond here on your talk page to keep the conversation together. Please respond here on your talk page. I'm leaving for camping for the long weekend very soon, so I'll look at your response in a few days. Royalbroil 13:39, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey there RB - Only have a few min. at the moment, but I did look. I'd say naa to the second one, but a strong YES to the first. Me personally, I might crop just a bit, maybe the fans heads out of the bottom, and very little along the sides. I agree with you that you want to keep the perspective. Have a great camping trip, and I know a reply to one message you sent is long overdue, I'll try to get that done this weekend. Without a doubt, I think the first pic would add value to the figure-8 article - Good Work! Talk to you soon, Ched. — Ched :  ?  16:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Just a note

Hi Ched. While doing my various rounds at Misplaced Pages over the last few days, I've noticed some of the incredibly kind and encouraging words you've said to people, and I just wanted to say how much they are appreciated. We are lucky to have you here. So, anyway, that's all I wanted to say. ;) I hope your adminship is going well. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 13:48, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Ahhh....wow. I'm not sure what to say Peter. Thank you! That has to be one of the nicest and kindest compliments I've ever gotten. To be honest, you are, yourself, going to have to take some credit here if I'm doing things in a positive light. I only have to look to the very first posts to my talk page edits to see that when I posted a {{helpme}} tag - you were one of first (if not the first) people to respond with friendly and helpful advice and encouragement. I've tried to follow your lead in how to be helpful and encouraging people. (That's a collective "you" which would include folks like Huntster, Pedro, Protonk, Royalbroil, Magio, Lara, Steve, Law, TnXman, and so many others). I've been very fortunate that my early experiences here have encouraged me to return to online communications. Perhaps it's the nature of "building a free on-line encyclopedia", but I feel so blessed to have met so many great folks here. I had become cynical of much of the "chatroom, forum, USENET, message-board" communities due to the seemingly inevitable degradation into flame-war, baiting, uncivil harassment that they often fell into. Soooo Peter, if I'm in any way doing good things, then much of the credit and "Thanks" have to go to you and our peers as well - I'm honestly humbled, and perhaps even a bit embarrassed here, but I am vastly grateful for your kind and encouraging words. ;). (PS: I would have responded yesterday, but I tend to stay away from any editing when I've been celebrating ... lol). — Ched :  ?  14:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

AfD closings

What do you make of this close Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of terms for gay in different languages? And going to the closer's taklpage I also saw a discussion regarding this one ] where the article creator wasn't notified (and it looks like it would have been a reasonable merge to me perhaps based on the discussion, although I haven't seen the article). Perhaps I should take them to DRV? I'm not fond of that type of contentious process. Let me know what you think. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh and if you don't mind, would you move this deleted article Exploding chicken to my usersapce? I think it might be good in a broader article on special effects or something... (I asked the closer, but didn't get a response. I don't think there would be any objection to my having it in userspace). ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I restored the most recent version (sans the AfD notice) of the page. Let me know if we need to restore all versions to preserve history. If so, I will do that tonight. If you need more info you might try WP:REFUND to see if anyone still hangs out there. This is a page that seems to have more history than other "deleted pages" I've had a chance to look at so far, so it's very possible that I should have restored "all" the versions - I'll check into that part of it, now that I'm thinking about it a bit more.

I just looked briefly at the Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of terms for gay in different languages and on initial glance it does appear to be a candidate for WP:DRV. I'm not familiar with User:Angr, but perhaps if you dropped him/her a note at User talk:Angr they might be able to give an explanation of their reasoning. Note: I only skimmed the AfD, and consensus is not decided solely on the number of votes, but also on the reasoning behind the votes as well - so there could very easily be something I'm missing on "gay terms in different languages" article. I assume that it was not an "attack" page?

Anyway, it's looking like another long day of "Ched you need to come fix my computer NOW!" day, but I'll follow up on this when I have the time (this evening I hope).

Side note: I found a great link on the "Sexuality and food" thing - I thought it was great, but not really anything in the link that would help build the article - just an enjoyable viewing: this link (well, depending on your point of view on the whole subject I guess). Thought you might get a kick out of it - too bad the pics aren't free-use huh? ... lol.

• One note that's entirely WP:OR: A warm bowl of water and a wash cloth can come in handy after the fact when indulging in the whipped cream/chocolate sauce areas. When accompanied with a warm towel straight from the dryer, it can be much appreciated in removing the sticky aftermath. (some may consider me to be an old man now - but I wasn't always!) :-) — Ched :  ?  14:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC) (cc: to user talk)

Thank you for your help good sir. Indeed, I think it best to preserve the history per GFDL and such. Not sure if or when I'll get around to saving the exploding chicken, but it seems important to me. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

• Note I did in fact go back and restore all the associated history of the article that was userfied after clarification on the talk page at WP:REFUND.
• Note 2 I've asked Angr for some input regarding the AfD close of List of terms for gay in different languages - also, I note that the page is up for transport to Wiktionary, but a "bot" was unable to perform that function. I also note that the article AfD was actually the second request for deletion. I'll try to follow up on this as time permits, and we'll see if we can get things to where it's acceptable to most if not all. — Ched :  ?  02:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I may have a couple more articles for you to userfy in the next few days. :) Do you mind doing that stuff? I want to make sure you get good at it! I was wondering about your post on the Bureaucrat board. I didn't really understand the need for the heads up. Isn't it more of an Arb issue? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:15, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't mind at all. I'm always glad to help, and anytime I can be a part of salvaging information and building our content, it makes me feel good. I might not be a "pure inclusionist" as I prefer that "case by case" solution - but I am certainly not a delitionist either. You may want to post at the bottom of the page for any new ones, just so I don't miss them - and if I'm busy and don't get to it in a timely manner - folks at WP:REFUND are really on the ball as well.

Yes, you're right - it likely will need to go to ArbCom to resolve. I tend to see the 'crats as admins with exceptional clue, but there isn't anything "official" they can do. I was more hoping that one of them would have a good idea on how to resolve matters in a "unofficial" capacity. Once it gets into arbcom, it tends to become drawn out, official, and loses much of the community personality. I also think that the items in those threads will need to be broken down into several individual items. — Ched :  ?  03:05, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I appreciate your response and thoughts. Stay out of trouble. I agree the closer of an AfD had to be consulted first, although they almost never want to help which is unfortunate. I don't really like confrontation and people tend to be jumpy and defensive. Your involvement was helpful. Cheerios. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:07, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Gay terms

CoM reminds me of guys I knew in Jr. High who would put their noses in the air and say, "Well, I'm not talking to him!" Or maybe that was teenage girls that I'm thinking of. Be that as it may, since he deleted this probably before you could read it, here it is again, for your grand edification:

I was going to be a smarty and say that in British English "gay" = "citizen", and then I noticed the definitions and began to think "blind dictionary definition". "Gay" in this sense derives more from "flamboyant", or "showing off", as referenced in the Cohan song, "Mary Is a Grand Old Name", in which she says her mother, "...wasn't gay or airy / But plain as she could be..." I think that's your true origin of that term. Not that song, but the way it's used in that song. Baseball Bugs carrots 18:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

And noticing the terms "queer" and "fag", I was reminded of something George Carlin once said, to the effect that a fag was not a homosexual, but merely someone who was unmanly; or the way he put it was, "A fag is someone who wouldn't go downtown and help beat up queers!" Which also points out that in his day, "queer" was hardly "neutral" as the list claims it to be. Baseball Bugs carrots 18:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

In summary, while that list is possibly educational, it seems to have a lot of original (or at least uncited) research in it. Baseball Bugs carrots 18:26, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

He also deleted my very reasonable comment about lutefisk. I should have mentioned to him that I always travel to the Minnesota State Fair, where you can get lutefisk on a stick and stuff like that there. If he goes there too, maybe I'll get a chance to meet him up close and poysanal. I'll be waiting by the hog exhibits. I'll wear a Twins cap so he'll know me. d:) Baseball Bugs carrots 18:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey Bugs, how ya doin? Hmmm ... I had rather the opposite impression of CoM, meaning that he appeared to me to be one of those folks that would stick up for another person no matter what. But, I do realize that you two haven't always seen eye-to-eye, so no use going on about it either. As far as the article goes, I'm probably not the best judge on that - I admit to being very clueless on many items like that. Even though I can be in downtown Pgh in half an hour (depending on traffic), I grew up in a very ... ahhh ... isolated neighborhood and school system that was not particularly diverse. Over the years I've certainly met a lot of folks and always enjoyed hearing all different points of view - be it on religion, heritage, politics, or sexual preferences; and I always try to have respect for anyone regardless of their opinions, choices, or inherent makeup - so long as they aren't so overly arrogant that they've got their noses stuck so far in the air that they can't even see the other side of the street anyway. I just haven't had that much experience with a lot of the LGBT areas. There are a couple folks here that are familiar with those areas, If it's important, I could post something on the project page and ask them to take a look?

I absolutely loved Carlins humor, he had a way of pointing out things that should have been obvious, but somehow folks had come to ignore in everyday life.

I'm not familiar with lutefisk, but if I get the chance to make a road-trip up to meet a WP buddy in Wisconsin this fall, I'll definitely try to find some. Funny thing, I'll bet if we all met up at a bar or cookout, you'd likely get along just fine (perhaps maybe just avoiding politics anyway ... lol). Hey, who knows, maybe someday you two will find yourselves on the same side of a debate, and maybe you'll find a way to co-exist without the friction. Saying you could become "best buds" might be a bit overly-optimistic, but ... stranger things have happened. Who knows, maybe someday I'll even agree with (wait - preview button, remove any names ... then save) someone that may seem unlikely at the moment. :D — Ched :  ?  00:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC) (no, there wasn't actually any one person I had in mind, it was just my sad attempt at humor)

I thought maybe a non-controversial edit or two would help break the ice, but he's decided he doesn't want to lower himself to talking to me, so dat's dat. I'm fairly much neutral on the "gay issue", in that I'm neither an enemy nor an advocate. And like you, I'm always interested in what someone has to say about religion and politics and stuff - as long as they don't cop the attitude that they're right and I'm wrong and dat's dat. I never heard that term "gay" until sometime in the early 70s, and always being curious about words, I wondered where it came from. In my younger days, that was an unmentionable topic, at least in my neighborhood. Later I found that there have been plenty of pop-culture references, just rather subtle, such that if you didn't get it, you didn't need to. Getting older and more exposed to the existence of various lifestyles, it kind of jumps out at you when you see it. I still get a laugh from Cary Grant, having dressed in his girlfriend's clothes due to his suit being wet or something, probably in His Girl Friday - she comes in, finds him dressed up in her stuff, and says, "What happened here?" And he says sarcastically, "I went gay all of a sudden!" That was the 1930s - but did it truly mean homosexual, or just "dressed up"? Hard telling. By the way, that pig joke I told you is from vaudeville, and is verifiably at least 100 years old. As far as lutefisk, to my mind the thing that's a negative is not that it's gelatinous fish and that it tastes fishy, but that it tends to be salty. But fish is fish. Anyway, this is turning into a shaggy dog story. My main point from the beginning was that that list is not only plagued with OR, it's sometimes inaccurate OR, which I think you'll agree is the worst kind. :) As you suggest, maybe someone who leans that way, and I think you know who they are, could address that question, as they have probably studied the matter a lot more than I have. Baseball Bugs carrots 01:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I've noticed several times that you've made the effort to find a path to communicating. I know that CoM has often had to endure some harsh and uncalled for comments, and in fact, the recent WMC block I found to be totally without merit. Perhaps it's just the timing Bugs. I know there are a lot of times that I get into a defensive mode, and fail to realize that someone is simply trying to "lighten the tension", and I've snapped at a person that I had no reason to. I know that CoM does a lot of fine work here, and has added value to our community in ways that are often un-quantifiable. I think in time it will all work out, I don't see any "give up and quit" in CoM, so I think as others come to appreciate his style - the tensions will wane. Hey, .. you both agree with the deletion of the article - "light at the end of the tunnel" perhaps? Everything I've ever seen of CoM indicates to me that he is a very kind, understanding, and friendly person. I think that time will heal many wounds, and I think it's entirely possible that you'll be a welcomed supporter on some things in the future.

The first time I really came to realize much about the term "gay" was the summer after high-school graduation. Sadly, it was when one of the young men that I graduated with had hung himself. Always very quiet and reserved, but an extremely nice guy. Of course that was back in the mid-70's, so many areas such as the one that I grew up in didn't have an air of openness and acceptance in very many things. In that respect anyway, I think humanity has evolved and progressed in positive directions. I think it's always better to talk and listen than to make judgments without hearing the other sides to the stories. Over the years I've given up a fair number of "friendships" because I refused to take the "status quo" or "majority" point of view, and often ended up siding with the underdog or minority viewpoint simply because I felt it was the "right thing to do". I can't say that I ever felt I "lost" anything with that approach, as my true friends still respected my POV even if they didn't agree.

Yea, I always loved Cary Grant (and the Fred McMurry / Disney films). I can picture the scene you're describing, but I'm not positive either on which flick it was. Getting back to the article, yeppers - I agree with you 100%, that un-sourced, inaccurate, OR should be removed without hesitation. I'll work something up and post over at the LGBT project and try to get some feedback. — Ched :  ?  02:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, maybe someday I'll remove a thorn from his paw or something. One thing I've noticed, though, is that even editors who don't get along very well kind of "watch out" for each other sometimes - like if some yahoo turns up and starts vandalizing their page or something. We'll just let time pass and see how things work out. Oh, and just to show how good my memory is, the scene I was talking about was from Bringing Up Baby. Baseball Bugs carrots 04:04, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL ... for some reason I was thinking "Operation Petticoat", now I'm gonna have to start going through some old movies. ;) — Ched :  ?  04:36, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

It's worth mentioning that between my comments and another editor's diligent work, the "gay synonyms" article has been whittled down to almost nothing. In which case, it should probably be deleted, but I'll leave that up to the deletionists. 0:) Baseball Bugs carrots 00:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I just looked, and I agree. I tend to be on the opposite end of the "deletionist" mindset as well, but I do think this is one that needs to go. I think there is enough in WP:NOT to back that up as well. I mentioned it to Angr first, just because I think that's the right thing to do. I didn't want it to look like an end-run around the closer. — Ched :  ?  03:09, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I see it now be gone. I did not vote on it. I hardly ever participate in deletion discussions. But it is gone to the bit bucket now. Baseball Bugs carrots 07:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

opposing views and such

I appreciate your kind words. Like you, there are some editors that I know are political opposites from what I think I am, and we get along fine. Others, we don't. I think the secret is not taking it too seriously. That's where some of those others and I part ways. They say they don't like my sense of humor. In particular, I think, they don't like having sacred cows punctured. To me, there are very few sacred cows. Someone told me the other day he thought I was conservative. I countered, "No, I'm old-fashioned." The two are not the same. Maybe you don't know this, but I wave the American flag on my user page, which is a political statement, and those things are frowned upon. However, it's buried in one of the sections you have to open, rather than screaming at the casual visitor. I call myself a liberal American patriot, which sounds like a contradiction. But what it means is that I try to keep an open mind about things, and I celebrate the good fortune of having been born and raised in the USA. To those who might wonder how I could defend the Palin and Obama articles with equal fervor, it's easy: I try to keep the reader in mind; and I don't take either of them seriously enough to become a zealot about them. I've seen many politicians come and go. They all have their pluses and minuses. I couldn't stand Dubya as President, but I didn't personally hate him either, as some left-wing zealots did. I always say about the Prez, "He's not God, he's not the King - he's just a guy, and if we don't like the job he's doing, we can vote him out." That rule applies to Obama as well as Bush. So there's another shaggy dog story, and why I don't have a problem with political opposites who will talk. In real life, I'm thinking about one of my best pals, who is as right wing as they come, and who I ideologically oppose on many issues - and who shares my style of humor (just directed at different politicos), my love of country, and who has what I call a "true Christian" nature, who would give you the shirt off his back if necessary. The best kind of friend you can have. So there's always hope, and we'll just see how things go here as time passes. OK, that was today's sermon. You may now turn to page 191 in your hymnal, as we sing a hymn written by God Himself, and titled, "Joyful, Joyful, Ye Adore Me." Baseball Bugs carrots 05:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Well Bugs, I think that is the ultimate goal (or should be), is when you can not tell from someones article edits what point of view they personally have. It was my primary reasoning for supporting your RfA back when. I can relate to the "old-fashioned" moniker, one which I've been labeled with as well. The thing with labels such as: "liberal", "conservative", Democrat, Republican, is that there are SOOO many different issues that get wrapped up into neat little sound-bites, and one size doesn't always fit all. Not sure why, but somewhere along the line I guess I started viewing you as sort of the "older brother I never had" (would that make me about 7 1/2? ... lol - I was the oldest of 3 in my family). I consider myself patriotic in the sense of the original founders vision for our country, but can have some liberal views on individual topics at the same time. The only thing I've ever wondered about is the way we went about gaining our independence. I think it's possible we lost some of that "air of dignity and integrity" that many of the British maintain to this day. I can understand the perception of "American arrogance", and have indeed been guilty of it my self on occasion. It comes in handy when seeking innovation and defending our "rights" - but I can understand where it can "off-putting" to others outside our culture too. I too have strong Christian beliefs, but don't try to impose them on others - I figure it's up to each of us to determine our place individually. Well Brother Bugs, I shall raise my voice to the highest (pitiful as it may be - I can't carry a tune in a bucket) to your hymn - but may substitute "Respect" for "Adore" ... lol. — Ched :  ?  15:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

There's a Star Trek in which Kirk and Bones help an alien woman deliver a child. Spock says to them something like, "The two of you are going to be insufferably pleased with yourselves for at least the next two weeks!" Sometimes I think that describes the USA. We managed to throw off the British shackle in the Revolution, and then the ill-advised War of 1812 ended with a surprise rout of the British at New Orleans, and we've never looked back. Well, almost never. Our national confidence has been shaken during my lifetime, with our cut-and-run in Vietnam in particular, and the 9/11 attacks that we still haven't made the culprits atone for. But it's all right, it's all right, we can't be forever blessed.

I can always use more good brothers. :) I told you before that wiki editors that don't get along will still sometimes defend each other. Someone accused CoM of being a sock of Deeceevoice. Unless there's something that I'm totally overlooking, that's about as likely as my getting elected Pope someday. So I came to his defense and he's still saying "F.U." to me, but it doesn't really matter. They shouldn't make those kinds of accusations without solid evidence. Unless I am 100% certain, I only raise questions (or, sometimes, SPI's). Outright accusations on shaky evidence are unjustified personal attacks. (I only believe in justified personal attacks). Baseball Bugs carrots 01:30, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I remember that Trek episode (I'm a huge Trek fan)! And I'd have to say that I agree with you on the observations of regarding our place in history and the wars we've been involved in. I don't know what to say as far as the CoM thing - I know I'm getting to really respect what Caspian Blue is doing (and he opposed my RfA). He's definitely earned my respect in a lot of areas lately. I'm not really familiar with the Egyptian history article that this individual spat is about, but I am certainly developing some strong impressions about WMC, Mathsi, and the little agenda campaign they've embarked on. Perhaps CoM is just a little hesitant to trust anyone at the moment - and to be honest, I can certainly understand that. I know some folks develop an opinion of an editor (either good or bad), when they've edited the same content - but I am as upset as you in regards to these blocks, bans, and accusations being handed out simply to ensure ones preferred version of content. Nothing I want to get to vocal about at the moment, but something I am keeping an eye on - and when I feel I can add some insight to things, I'll do my best. By the way, I don't think I'll have to be sending my grandkids to sit on your lap at Christmas time to ask for toys ... lol. ;) — Ched :  ?  02:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I recall once, a year or two ago, when I happened to revert an article the same way as another editor, and the one being reverted said I was a sockpuppet of that other editor. I wasn't too happy about that false claim, which is one reason I'm kind of sensitive to that issue. But he didn't bother bringing an SPI, since several other editors told him he was nuts. Baseball Bugs carrots 03:04, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm ... I didn't know that. It makes sense though, and now I understand why you're so aware of the issues. — Ched :  ?  03:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

That was some time back, and unfortunately (?) I don't really keep a written "enemies list", so it would take quite a bit of digging to find, and for no really useful purpose. I am pretty much immune to unwarranted criticism, but false accusations of rules violations, I do take personally. Baseball Bugs carrots 03:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I know what you mean. I can tend to be overly sensitive about my efforts here as well. Burried in my talk archives (or r Kives) are a couple threads that I took rather strong exception to when I should have leaned a little on the WP:DGAF thing, and realized it was just a tip being passed along. I agree, life is to short to "save up enemies", I'd rather look at it from the point of view: "perhaps somewhere in the future, I can find a reason to be supportive of the person, if not actually becoming their friend" — Ched :  ?  03:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The ones that were truly offensive, or which are still troublesome years after being banned, kind of stick with you, and you don't need a list. If you have to look them up, it might not be that important. Gerry Ford said of Richard Nixon, "If you have to make a list of your enemies, you have too many enemies." rKive is the name of a type of file box. It's a trademark. Maybe I should use a trademark symbol when I post that edit summary. :) The other variant, about an "ark hive", I heard decades ago, and it was probably old then. Henny Youngman used to say there are no new jokes, and he would know. Baseball Bugs carrots 04:08, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Would this be a good time for: "Take my enemies ... please!" ... LOL. Sorry, it was too easy. :-) — Ched :  ?  04:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm just pleased that you know Henny Youngman. :) He was like a human joke book. He would go anywhere, play any gig that was offered, and he always killed. He would go on Carson and start rattling off jokes. Even if a specific joke wasn't that funny, or you had heard it a hundred times, there were so many, coming at you like a machine gun, that you couldn't help laughing. I think the closest modern equivalent would have been Rodney Dangerfield. The difference is that Henny had a pretty "clean" act, while Rodney was really out there. But they were both great. They don't really make 'em like that anymore. Jay Leno tries. Baseball Bugs carrots 04:23, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL ... I loved Youngman, although I wasn't overly impressed with his violin skills ... lol. I think the modern day delivery that would come to mind would be Dennis Miller as far as similar "rapid fire". My dad, and one of my good real life friends both LOVE Rodney - I liked his stand-up, but thought his choice of movies wasn't always the best for his style. (outside of that one college one). As far as my favorite "clean" comedian ... far and away - nobody even close: Red Skelton. Sigh, sometimes I get just a bit sad thinking about what my daughter and grandkids missed. It was a different era that the current generation could learn a lot from. Drifting a bit, but do you remember when "The man who wears the star" would actually walk out, not only fill up your gas tank, but actually clean your windows! — Ched :  ?  04:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, Red Skelton, yes - we used to watch his show all the time. Now, he would sometimes get into some risque stuff (by early 1960s standards), but always with a twinkle. The thing about Red was that he loved to laugh so much, that he would laugh at his own jokes, which is something comics generally don't do, but it was endearing with him. Another favorite was Jack Benny, especially when he would have Mel Blanc on. The "little Mexican" sketch doesn't necessarily look that funny on paper, but it was the delivery - it was a riot. And then there was the "Anaheim, Azusa, and Cuc....amonga" bit. Texaco, eh? Yes, back when they really were "service" stations. Texaco Star Theater was the name of Uncle Miltie's show, which was a little before my time, but I recall reading about one joke of his: He was opposite Bishop Fulton Sheen for awhile, and he once said, "We both work for the same boss: Sky Chief!" OK, now you've got me humming this one, from when jingles were production numbers: "You can trust your car to the man who wears the star / For the finest products that can take care of your car / At every Texaco station / Clean across the nation / You can trust your car to the man who wears the star / The big, bright, Texaco star!" OK, now you can be humming this to yourself while you're trying to get to sleep. :) Baseball Bugs carrots 04:53, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of Benny, and Texaco: Baseball Bugs carrots 05:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

←lol ... Benny would flip at the cost of a gallon of gas today! ... and yep, I'll be humming that tune in my sleep. ;) — Ched :  ?  05:13, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

For sure. And now you've got me started. This is all your fault. It must be. Here's Rochester trying to think of a present for Mr. Benny. The guy behind the counter is Rolfe Sedan, who was on the Superman episode called "The Big Freeze". Baseball Bugs carrots 05:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The first Red Skelton youtube that came up was this classic blooper, which I vaguely recall seeing at the time, in which he and Jack Albertson and a cow demonstrate the perils of "live" TV. Baseball Bugs carrots 05:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Bugs and Red break

As I head off to slumber land ... I leave you with this link ;) — Ched :  ?  06:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Excellent. :) And one other thing about Red is to realize that he was huge in radio prior to the advent of TV. A lot of his catch-phrases found their way into Warner Bros. cartoons of the 1940s. For example, "He don't know me vewwy well, do he?" was used a number of times by Bugs Bunny, Tweety, etc. Then there was Bullwinkle J. Moose, who was almost a direct ripoff of Clem Kadiddlehopper. Baseball Bugs carrots 05:31, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey. I knew they both (Red and Bugs) both shared some common "lines" - had never really thought about which came first. I use the "He don't know me verwwy well, do he?" comment often in life ... lol. I know it started very early in the Bugs cartoons (WW II / 1940s). I've heard some of the early radio broadcasts (after the fact), that Red did. He had some great stuff. One of my favs was when he would do the Gertrude and Heacliff seagulls bits. Going back a few posts, I had seen that "Cow do-do" bit before, and howl everytime I see it again .. lol. Was Jack Alberston ever "young"? I had never made the connection between Clem Kadiddlehopper and Bullwinkle before ... but you're exactly right. — Ched :  ?  12:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

WB cartoonists shamelessly stole from pop culture, but it also served as kind of a cross-media "advertising". Young Jack Albertson. Well, the youngest thing I've seen him in was a quick clip in "Miracle on 34th Street", as the mailroom worker who gets the idea to send all the Santa Claus letters over to the courthouse (thus nullifying the argument made by the defensive attorney, but why quibble?) I think Red sued the Jay Ward company and/or Bill Scott for that impression ripoff, but I'm not sure what came of it. Baseball Bugs carrots 13:24, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Civility/poll

Can you take a look at WP:Incivility/Poll. Ive spent the day in thought. Have not read any of the conversation at the poll so I'm not sure where to plug in my thoughts. Any ideas are welcome. I'm off to read the ideas of fellow editors about this most important issue. --Buster7 (talk) 06:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I noticed you found the other "civility" poll. I skimmed through it - some very good points. I'll chip in later tonight - you might want to get the talk page going - just to discuss some of the items. Cheers, and good to hear from you Buster. ;) — Ched :  ?  12:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Pardon me for sounding uncivil, but I don't think there's any such word as "incivil". There's "incivility", but not "incivil", that I've ever seen (outside of wikipedia). It's like if you are "unable" to do something, you have an "inability" to do it. Baseball Bugs carrots 13:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

My mom (a former English teacher), brought up the same point to me. I told her that I thought she was "mis-under-estimating" my skills ... lol ... sorry Dubya ... it was too easy. — Ched :  ?  13:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, your Mom was over-exaggerating. That reminds me of when someone posted a notice in our company lunchroom saying something like, "Let's keep are workspace clean." I told my folks about this, and they were appalled. A co-worker told me I was being "picky". But shortly after I pasted a cutout of the word "our" over "are", the sign was taken down. English triumphs. :) Or maybe I should say one form of nannyism triumphs over another. :) Baseball Bugs carrots 13:39, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I think your right. And I enjoy you're ability to notice these things. >:) — Ched :  ?  13:56, 10 July 2009 (UTC) (yep - deliberately done)

Incivility = uncivil behavior. One is a noun, the other an adjective.--Buster7 (talk) 14:12, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey Buster, sorry about that - Bugs and I have a habit of gettin' to gabbin' sometimes. Anyway, I know "incivil" isn't a recognized word; but, I tend to hear the two words in my mind, and make a distinction. I tend to think of "uncivil" as not going out of ones way to be polite and civil - where I tend to think of "incivil" as being directly the opposite of civil. I know I'm not correct in that, but it's just the way my mind works. I like what you worked up by the way - and I'll add my thoughts later today. — Ched :  ?  14:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

No prob...but the distinction you raise is interesting and subtle. Extending your thought makes me think that "'incivil" is intentional while Uncivil is, perhaps, just a misunderstanding, a clash of cultural differences, a soft way of being vs. a hard way of being. --Buster7 (talk) 14:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes ... exactly the way my mind processes it as well. Well said. ;) — Ched :  ?  14:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

'Incivil' is most certainly a word, however it is not used very often. Law _{type! snype?} 19:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

On my recent visits here, I noticed the MOP standing 'over der in da corner'...But it didn't dawn on me until just now what it meant. Sincere Congrats. Had I known I certainly would have vehemently supported your adminship. --Buster7 (talk) 14:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Escape The Fate

Thank you for placing the protection on the Escape The Fate page. It was getting edited by what appeared to be unintelligent 15 year olds.

hsxeric (talk) 15:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

No problem, hopefully vandals will become bored when they can't vandalize. ;) — Ched :  ?  05:47, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Smiles at the beginning of sentences

Hi there Ched Davis, I noticed this formatting. Just so you know, in order to prevent the colon/semi-colon formatting, use the code <nowiki>;)</nowiki>, and it'll produce ";)". Hope that helps. ;) Acalamari 23:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

HA ... thanks Acalamari, I didn't even think of that! — Ched :  ?  23:57, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I was actually going to come and say the same thing. You silly sausage. :D — neuro 16:42, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Future Poll

I feel ya on this. Wayyyy too many bytes spent on those Jimbo things. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 00:22, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the note Amorymeltzer. To be honest, I'm not really sure what to make of all this talk lately. To me, it seems like a "we want to take over" type of thing. I'm not sure what it's supposed to accomplish. Personally, I like Misplaced Pages - and I don't see a need to suddenly make some radical changes to it. I'm not saying that Jimbo is always right in all things, but I don't see a need to just "kick him to the curb" either. I think civility has served us well. I think Jimbo usually makes very well informed decisions. And I think the community works pretty well on the whole. I understand that we need to continue to evolve, grow, and change in order to maintain a respectable status on the web. I've also seen other .com sites make drastic changes in hopes of either "growing" or "keeping up" - it historically has not been successful to approach business decisions in that way. But, ... going back to my younger years, to quote a common chant of the day ... "Power to the people". ;) — Ched :  ?  02:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply

Talkback

yousaf465' 15:43, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, no problem. Sometimes it's very easy to type the first thing that comes to mind. I'm glad you reconsidered. ;) — Ched :  ?  21:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

No problem.yousaf465'

Jealousy...

Hi Chad, I noticed that you extended certain rights to a well-known troublemaker, CoM, and I was wondering if you would have a look at my article contributions, to see if I can put in for Autoreviewer too. Not that I think my new articles (little bitty stubby thingies, usually) won't withstand scrutiny, but I just can't stand it if CoM has a toy tool that I don't have! Thanks, Drmies (talk) 02:34, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Drmies, I'd be happy to take a look. A couple things I'd like to mention though. 1.) I'm not particularly fond of referring to other editors as "troublemakers". While I'm certainly aware of many of the controversial threads and edits that CoM has made, I prefer to look for the positive things in all editors. The other minor item would be .. it's "ChEd, rather than Chad. Anyway, I'll have a look, and be with you shortly. — Ched :  ?  02:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Given the facetious nature of the section heading, I'm sure Drmies was using 'trouble-maker' in the nicest possible way. Law _{type! snype?} 02:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

/me gives Ched his sarcasm detector back. :P –Juliancolton |  03:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

lmF'ingao ... hey, I figure this is minor - I figure I'm gonna have to stock up on rations after my latest "warning". Hey Law, maybe we should start an "Outlaw admin" Cabal - you know - the ones that follow the policies and guidelines. We're a "baaaaad" group! — Ched :  ?  03:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

@Julian -- I wondered what ever happened to that damed thing ... and here you've had it all the time .. lulz ;-) — Ched :  ?  03:07, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey Ched. Thanks for the additional tools! Now that a devoted rabblerouser has them too, they don't seem that special and I don't want them any more. Also, I've accidentally rolled something back a couple of times, and I kind of like having my new articles patrolled. I hate to be ungrateful, but would you mind stripping me these special tools? I guess I'm just an old-fashioned kind of editor. It was cool and interesting to check them out though, and I appreciate your empowering me with them and helping to deal with the aftermath. Thanks! I can't wait to get the Walmart rollback pricing nightmares out of my head... ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:42, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

reply to Rootology

.....21:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)...well said!--Buster7 (talk) 02:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Cattle

What would be the reason for this rollback of a talk page comment? It doesn't look like a vandalistic edit, but maybe I'm overlooking something. I don't really know Montanabw, except as a victim of the User:ItsLassieTime sockfarm, sometime this past spring. Baseball Bugs carrots 04:27, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Looking .. hang on.... — Ched :  ?  04:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Is anyone going to ask the editor who made the revert? Law _{type! snype?} 04:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Not me. I'm not talking to him anymore. Or at least, he's not talking to me. But I have serious concerns about his having rollback rights, for exactly this kind of situation. I use rollback with extreme caution - only for very obvious vandalism, like random blanking, or random insertion of nonsense or profanity - and typically only in articles, not talk pages. It should not be used for removing text he doesn't think is appropriate. Such removal should be made by a "manual" revert, the "old fashioned way", and with an explanation. Baseball Bugs carrots 04:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

That is a suitable explanation. I wish you both were on better terms. I will notify him about this thread, as only he can give the most concise explanation of his actions. Law _{type! snype?} 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I looked, I reverted, I left a TP comment. Point taken. There are understandable "NOT FORUM" issues with this, I'd rather not see it escalated.

Bugs, how does this appear to you as "rollback"? ... what I see now is different I think than before I had the buttons. How do I tell the difference? — Ched :  ?  04:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I can't absolutely say he used rollback. But I posted a test message on my own page, and then did a rollback, and the edit summary was worded exactly in the same format as his revert was. So unless he typed in the text using the same verbiage a rollback does (which is possible but kind of a weird way to do things), then it had to have been a rollback. In any case, he should have posted an explanation rather than just saying "reverting"-such-and-such. Baseball Bugs carrots 04:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Yea ... look at my contribs ... I'm doing the same thing ... I'm not sure yet — Ched :  ?  05:03, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

If 'reverted' is linked to Rollback, it's a rollback. I hope things don't look too different to you Ched - or perhaps I didn't get the full toolkit. Law _{type! snype?} 05:04, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, here's what I saw:

(Reverted edits by Montanabw (talk) to last version by Rocket000)

(Reverted edits by Baseball Bugs (talk) to last version by Stifle)

I want to point out that when I was given rollback, a user warned the admin that I was not to be trusted with it. Stung by that presupposition, I have tried to only use rollback when appropriate. Sometimes I've used it and realized I owed an explanation, so I rolled myself back and then reverted again, but with an explanation. If I'm off base here, let me know. Baseball Bugs carrots 05:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

You are exactly right. If it is blatant vandalism, it can be rolled back without explanation. Anything further is going to require an edit summary or the tool will be removed. Law _{type! snype?} 05:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The best bet is for one of you, whom he presumably trusts, to simply tell him not to do that again. Anyone can make one mistake. Good faith, as Ched said in his own edit summary. Baseball Bugs carrots 05:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

That reminds me - he was given a second privilege along with rollback. Can you tell me what it's called, and what it does? Baseball Bugs carrots 05:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Autoreviewer Law _{type! snype?} 05:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I see. I don't quite understand its purpose, but it doesn't sound like something I would need, as I am not a "new page patroller". I have a sizable watch list, but that's about it. It is ironic that he gripes about other users being "patrollers". I guess it's OK for him, though, since he's morally superior to some of us. (Meow). Baseball Bugs carrots 05:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Yep ... you're both right ... I will issue a warning. Apologies for the time delay in catching up to the twinkle vs. rollback thing .. I just wanted to be sure. — Ched :  ?  05:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) If Law doesn't beat me to it, I'll add it to your rights ASAP ... sigh, ... he's a lot faster than me ... but I'll try to beat him to it... lol. Good grief .. I had no idea you had created so many damn articles Bugs... geesh! — Ched :  ?  05:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Add what? Autoreviewer? What would that do? Is it passive, or am I going to start to see a bunch of stuff turning up? I don't know that I've created all that many articles. Certainly none (or hardly any) connected with politics. That's one of CoM's gripes - that I don't create articles about politics, hence I presumably don't know anything about the subject. I'm a child of the 60s. I know something about politics. One thing I know is that it's a mine field here. Baseball Bugs carrots 05:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec)Twinkle is another thing I've never used, although I hear a lot about it, especially when certain users' names turn up, though I don't want to mention any names (hint: it generated a very large entry on ANI in the last day or so). Baseball Bugs carrots 05:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Eh. Who didn't have a large entry on ANI in the last couple of days. Law _{type! snype?} 05:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, you want specifics. OK, here's another clue for you all - the walrus's paw - oh, wait, wrong number. It had to do with a guy who had been indef'd for several months and negotiated a deal to get unblocked and within a day (to no one's surprise) he got himself into hot water. Baseball Bugs carrots 05:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh no, I was poking fun at myself for having been taken there recently :P Law _{type! snype?} 05:41, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I think I saw that. No one takes me to ANI any more. :( They used to, but I guess they all got run out of town. Either that, or I'm not editing enough controversial stuff now. I need to go to the talk page where they're holding a friendly Arab-Israeli discussion, and tell them, "You're all a bunch of psycopaths! " Incivility combined with bad spelling. Over the line, for sure. Baseball Bugs carrots 06:11, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Twinkle is a java script thingie that adds a couple buttons to the top of your page, and a couple extra "links" to things when you look at a page history. It has some stuff that when you "revert" vandalism, it automatically pops up the talk page of the person you reverted, then you can click on the "warn" tab, pick the type of warning, and drop the whole thing in a couple easy click/links. It also has a tab to report a user to AIV (something I think you could use a lot). It automatically fills in the "diffs", and the article that was vandalized. It's actually pretty cool, and not hard to get the hang of. — Ched :  ?  05:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like it could be useful in some circumstances. Is that something anyone can run, or does it require a privilege, and also that your username not start with a letter of the Greek alphabet? Baseball Bugs carrots 05:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Go to Special:Preferences. You enable it in gadgets. It's not automated, so you need not worry too much about 'running it.' Law _{type! snype?} 06:02, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Aha. Well, IE is not on the list, so that rules me out anyway. (I'll wait while you revive and climb up off the floor.) Baseball Bugs carrots 06:04, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Haha. I nearly did faint. Go download the darn thing. Law _{type! snype?} 06:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

What, a replacement for IE? No, can't do that. The wife has urged me to also. Nope. Meanwhile, thanks to Ched for giving me autoreviewer. I don't know if I'll ever use it, but I have one key question: Does it have a nifty little graphic, like rollback does? I like having nifty little graphics on my page to impress those who think I might know something they don't. Baseball Bugs carrots 06:14, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Would this be the nifty little graphic? Baseball Bugs carrots 06:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

sounds good to me ... ;-) — Ched :  ?  06:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile, I was just checking CoM's page to see what he had to say, since I don't actively watch his page anymore. I accept the possibility he might have clicked it by accident, as I've been known to click things by accident, except I usually know I did it and try to reverse it. Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out whether I'm more of a "douche bag" or a "troll". Or is it both? :'( Baseball Bugs carrots 06:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, CoM seems to think he no longer has rollback rights, but I don't think that's correct, as I don't see anything in the rights log accept where you added those rights. Unfortunately, I've misplaced how to check someone's rights. Baseball Bugs carrots 06:38, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Awww Bugs, you know better than to pay attention to the crap kids say. Remember when we were young and wanted to change the world? Hey, I appreciate how hard you tried, and I know how frustrating it is when someone won't even meet (or is that meat) you half way. But look at it this way ... regardless of the reasons, CoM has been hammered from every side for the last couple months. Granted; much of it has been due to his own doing, but I remember when I started too. I tried so hard to contribute to computer articles .. much of it was reverted because of NOT #HOWTO .. and the Larry Sanger article ... total frustration. Our kids fuck up sometimes... it doesn't mean that they're bad kids ... even if they view life from a different perspective, it's healthy to have the checks and balances. We're old farts Bugs, we know what we know. We can't force our lifes experiences on these kids - they have to learn it for themselves. Hey, I'm gonna try to get up to the Wisconsin area this fall ... on the way through Chi-town, we'll get together and have a couple beers and laughs. Don't sweat the "website" crap ... don't let it eat you up. We're too damn old to worry about that kind of crap. Let's do what we can to pass on what we know, and the hell with those that won't listen. Live long and prosper. ;-) — Ched :  ?  06:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and I finally caught on... I don't care about the name-calling. Kids today are basically shamelessly vulgar, unlike the purity of our generation (snicker). See, all that stuff they said back in the 70s about how bad an influence TV was? Turns out they were right, and it's gone downhill since then. And that's the way it is. :) Baseball Bugs carrots 07:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, but does he still have rollback rights? I didn't see anything that said they had been taken away. What's that page that tells who has what rights? Baseball Bugs carrots 07:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

sigh ... when you look at at users "contribs" page, there's a link at the bottom for User rights. — Ched :  ?  07:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Of course. Silly me. And he's still got it, so I don't understand what he's not seeing. Something was said about "buttons", and maybe that's how it's expressed in certain browsers, I don't know. But for me on IE, it simply appears as a link called "" after the user ID of the most recent change in the article history, and on a given user's contrib history. Baseball Bugs

carrots 07:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In terms of a tool that would eliminate trolls, etc., automatically - I'm reminded of a Twilight Zone episode, in which some squirrely guy had a notecard file of all the "evil people" in the world. By force of will, at Four O'Clock, he was going to somehow turn all the evil people into little gnomes - 1 1/2 feet high or whatever - so that they could be identified on sight. And at the appointed time, it happened - except that the only one who shrunk to gnome size was himself. Baseball Bugs carrots 07:49, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

OK ... I'll have to look at the variations on different browsers ... but, for me (and Firefox as a browser)... when I look at a diff. I have 3 lines on the right side.

• || || (these are all part of the "Twinkle" set of tools I think
• Current revision as of 06:33, July 14, 2009 (edit) (undo) (I think everyone has this)
• Baseball Bugs (talk | contribs | block) (the rollback that shows here is what the "rights" give a person)

that's as far as I know, but I'll look at it in IE with my alt. account, and try to clarify it if I can. — Ched :  ?  08:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

and yep! I remember that episode! — Ched :  ?  08:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Ched - can you look again at your comment on the cattle page? I think you were trying to interpret why CoM may have removed it and then you left a message. I read the discussion twice and really think the users are using the talk page appropriately and discussing the article, naming conventions, and such. I was hoping you might remove it because the participants seem to be acting in good faith. Law _{type! snype?} 08:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

PLEASE don't anyone take offense to this .. but "I DON'T CARE!" Revert it, change it, strike it, redact it, burn it and flush it down the damn toilet. It's a couple sentences about cows. It's a web page ... no, it's a "discussion" about a web page. I have no doubts whatsoever that each and every one of the people involved were, and are, acting in good faith. I just can't find it in my heart or soul to spend time on this. I'm sorry. Do what you think is right - I'm not going to argue one way or the other about it. Sorry for the rant, but I'm headed for my bed now. Whatever is decided is fine by me. — Ched :  ?  08:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Heh. That's pretty much the response I figured I would get. I just wanted to ease Casp's mind. Perhaps he thinks you are delicate. I'll roll the comment back so we can come full circle. Ω≈ Law _{type! snype?} 08:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Ched's a strong guy. A lesser man might feel cowed. Baseball Bugs carrots 12:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

9_9 ,,, I guess it's a Moot point now. ;-) — Ched :  ?  17:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

thanx for the info...but

Hi ched

thanx for the info but, im still new to wiki and im still learning how it works,what is the three revert rule? what is a "revert"? i dont understand.. The.blurrz (talk) 17:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Happy Bastille Day!

Dear fellow Wikipedian, on behalf of the Kindness campaign, I just want to wish you a Happy Bastille Day, whether you are French, Republican or not!  :) Happy Editing! Sincerely, --A Nobody 21:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

WebHamster RFC

I hope I did this right. It was excessively complicated. Do you want to "certify" it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/WebHamster#Statement_of_the_dispute

Noloop (talk) 00:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Aww crap, I had hoped that it would have all died down. You should realize that you're going to be subjected to criticism for baiting and such as well. I'll look at it, and I'll think about the situation. To be honest, this is not what I hoped to be doing here. — Ched :  ?  01:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Ugh. Have you guys heard about the upcoming Misplaced Pages:The Great Misplaced Pages Dramaout? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:41, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeppers ... scroll up on the sign up sheet ... I was in from the get-go! Glad to see you are too! I'll always remember the "moth to the flame" comment, but I've seen what you can do when you put your efforts towards article work. Let's rock and roll!! — Ched :  ?  01:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)