| Revision as of 02:51, 21 July 2009 editSineBot (talk | contribs)Bots2,556,622 editsm Signing comment by Valkyrie Red - "→Mr. Nintendo: "← Previous edit | Revision as of 20:18, 21 July 2009 edit undoValkyrie Red (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,801 edits →Mr. NintendoNext edit → | ||
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| My point is to please everyone, and since everyone argues that Mario is not the only Mr. Nintendo, my solution is to put the Mr. Nintendo nickname on the pages that also deserve this nickname. What's the point that you're proposing, cause, and I say this to not insult you, it sounds like you're just trying to create another argument to support your previous one--Red Slayer 02:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | My point is to please everyone, and since everyone argues that Mario is not the only Mr. Nintendo, my solution is to put the Mr. Nintendo nickname on the pages that also deserve this nickname. What's the point that you're proposing, cause, and I say this to not insult you, it sounds like you're just trying to create another argument to support your previous one--Red Slayer 02:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | ||
| Well, I've been waiting for about 2 days now and so far no one has argued with my solution, therefore, I am going through with it. If you have any problem with it, please, do contact me on my talk page. Now, don't say that I didn't warn you that I was going through with it.--Red Slayer 20:17, 21 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
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Popular culture
Should anything at all be mentioned about the enormous amount of Mario-inspired artwork (paintings, music, films) that exists out there? Some examples: (by PBF) Esn (talk) 20:55, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
- Hm. Yeah, I'd say that's notable enough. Of the sites you provided, I recommend this one as the source, as it contains the most variety. Cheers. -sesuPRIME 21:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
- Ok, I've added it in. However, I've included the Newgrounds link as well because there really is a huge stylistic variety of films there as well, many of which have been viewed hundreds of thousands of times - seems notable enough to me... Esn (talk) 07:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
- Good call. I've moved the sentence to just before the onslaught of soccer Marios, and reformatted the references to use Template:Cite web. Cheers. -sesuPRIME 12:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
- Ok, I've added it in. However, I've included the Newgrounds link as well because there really is a huge stylistic variety of films there as well, many of which have been viewed hundreds of thousands of times - seems notable enough to me... Esn (talk) 07:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
"Classic" Mario
I've been mulling it over for awhile...but in all honesty the Super Mario Galaxy render of Mario doesn't represent the short little plumber worth a tinker's damn. Would anyone object if I replaced it with either a better render of the character or a 2D one, at least something with Mario on his feet.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:34, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
- I'd say it's a perfectly acceptable image and clearly depicts the subject; his legs are clearly displayed and it doesn't take much to imagine what he'd look like if he were on his feet, so why do you think such a stance is so instrumental in depicting the subject? Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 00:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- More because it depicts the entire character from head to toe. Not to mention Mario does not actually "fly" normally like the image could be taken to apply.
- It's not a terrible image for what it is, but it just doesn't feel like it's the best one for depicting Mario.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- Mm, true, although I'd say its recency adds something. What do you think of this and this, though? I'm pretty sure at least the first one has been frequently used by Nintendo in promotions, etc.. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 01:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- The first one is SM64 artwork (I think) and the second is from New SMB, so the second is more recent. I like either one, though. -sesuPRIME 02:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- Well..... Are one of you two going to replace the image or should I? -sesuPRIME 18:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, sorry, forgot about this. I'm preferring the second of those two now, as his cap's less out of the way than the first, but what should be done about the IGN logo? Is it acceptable to remove that? Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 23:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
- I don't know. It might be best to ask at Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. -sesuPRIME 01:06, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, sorry, forgot about this. I'm preferring the second of those two now, as his cap's less out of the way than the first, but what should be done about the IGN logo? Is it acceptable to remove that? Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 23:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
- Well..... Are one of you two going to replace the image or should I? -sesuPRIME 18:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
- The first one is SM64 artwork (I think) and the second is from New SMB, so the second is more recent. I like either one, though. -sesuPRIME 02:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
- Mm, true, although I'd say its recency adds something. What do you think of this and this, though? I'm pretty sure at least the first one has been frequently used by Nintendo in promotions, etc.. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 01:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Appearances
I think a great way to help this article would be to clean up the appearances section. It is a mess. If I wanted to find Mario's role in Super Mario Galaxy, I wouldnt know where to look. There is junk all over that section, and a million links. I would try and model it after Link (The Legend of Zelda)'s appearance section. It is very clean, and has the name of the game at the beginning of the pharagraph, with Link's role in the game following it. I know Mario is in alot of games, but it is currently a C article, while Link is a FA. --Blake (talk) 14:38, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- I am currently rewriting it at User:Bws2cool/Mario where it is more like Link, where it tells about the character's role in the games. Not how popular the game was, or any of that stuff. This should focus on the character. --Blake (talk) 15:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Done. Now can I get a concensus to swich it over? --Blake (talk) 17:55, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- That seems way too long and could use some referencing...can you condense it a little any way and add refs?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- It is smaller then Link. lol. Any smaller and it would be a small jumbled mess like it was before. Also, what would the references be for? I got everything on the page from the games pages themselves. I removed alot of the references though cause they referenced things like "the game" or "the manual" --Blake (talk) 18:07, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- That seems way too long and could use some referencing...can you condense it a little any way and add refs?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Done. Now can I get a concensus to swich it over? --Blake (talk) 17:55, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Looks fine, though the images need to focus more on Mario's different physical appearances, a la the Link article. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 18:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'd be wary of using Link as a guide: I've seen more than a few editors over the years have noted the article needs work, and its seen FAR twice. Referencing the games and manuals moreso is fine because it gives verifiability to your statements (even box art works as a citation in many cases), which is very important for GA nominations and so forth.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:16, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- I will find references, but I think the content and length are fine. Maybe you can change that after its in the article. --Blake (talk) 18:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- To be completely honest, a structure like Jason Voorhees's article would probably would better to give it a solid flow. Your changes would end up making a lot of work in the process of restructuring as they are now.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- I dont see how they are different, other then providing a date for the film directly after the link. Anyways, I finished putting references on the article. There are a few games that have very little references on their pages. So can this be replaced now? It would still be a great improvment. The appearences section shouldnt show the reception for each game. Also the current article doesnt even mention any of the main-series games after Super Mario Bros. 3. --Blake (talk) 19:51, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- Hello? I would like to update this, so I can maybe start working on the article some more to be at least B-class. --Blake (talk) 00:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
- I dont see how they are different, other then providing a date for the film directly after the link. Anyways, I finished putting references on the article. There are a few games that have very little references on their pages. So can this be replaced now? It would still be a great improvment. The appearences section shouldnt show the reception for each game. Also the current article doesnt even mention any of the main-series games after Super Mario Bros. 3. --Blake (talk) 19:51, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- To be completely honest, a structure like Jason Voorhees's article would probably would better to give it a solid flow. Your changes would end up making a lot of work in the process of restructuring as they are now.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- I will find references, but I think the content and length are fine. Maybe you can change that after its in the article. --Blake (talk) 18:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'd be wary of using Link as a guide: I've seen more than a few editors over the years have noted the article needs work, and its seen FAR twice. Referencing the games and manuals moreso is fine because it gives verifiability to your statements (even box art works as a citation in many cases), which is very important for GA nominations and so forth.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:16, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Would it be possible for someone to please add a table showing all of Mario's games and their respective platforms? I find it very difficult to get an overview from this article, and I don't know enough about Mario to do it myself. Thank you! Jammycaketin (talk) 11:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
- Usually there is a timeline of appearances for characters (See Yoshi under the infobox), but Mario has had so many appearances it would take up the whole page. This is why at the top of this section it says "Main Article: List of Mario games by year" --Blake (talk) 12:58, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Grammar and Spelling
In the first paragraph, there should be fixes made. I'm sorry, but the semi-restriction keeps me from editing. Iloveyummyfood (talk) 23:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
- Could you point out anything in particular? I'm not really seeing how it's particularly badly-written. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 00:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Mr. Nintendo
Note: This argument is targeted towards Kungfu man, and possibly MuZemike if he supports him.
Mario has been referred to as Mr. Nintendo, ever since he became famous. Therefore, I say that this article should be allowed to say that Mario has been referred to as Mr. Nintendo.
- Actually, other sources I have found say that Shigeru Miyamoto is sometimes referred to as "Mr. Nintendo". See this news report here. MuZemike 00:06, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- Also, others have referred to "Mr. Nintendo" as the console in the context of the latest fad of exergames (see for example). MuZemike 00:09, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- I cannot find any reliable sources out there that show that Mario is called as such. We cannot go off "hunches" or what "other people say" as that constitutes original research, which is not allowed. If it's out there, then please show where instead of demanding that others do so. That is part of Misplaced Pages's Verifiability policy, that the burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds said information. I hope that clarifies things better. MuZemike 00:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- Exactly, I have heard of Miyamoto being called Mr. Nintendo. I have never ever ever heard of Mario being called Mr. Nintendo. If you provide us with a link to a reliable source calling him that then that would be acceptable. --Blake (talk) 01:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- I remember Mario's trophy in Super Smash Bros. Melee says something about him being known worldwide as "Mr. Nintendo". -sesuPRIME 01:32, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- You would be correct. Reading the trophy description of Mario on SSBM (which I had to dig out of my closet):
- I remember Mario's trophy in Super Smash Bros. Melee says something about him being known worldwide as "Mr. Nintendo". -sesuPRIME 01:32, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- Exactly, I have heard of Miyamoto being called Mr. Nintendo. I have never ever ever heard of Mario being called Mr. Nintendo. If you provide us with a link to a reliable source calling him that then that would be acceptable. --Blake (talk) 01:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Known worldwide as Mr. Nintendo, Mario uses his incredible jumping ability to thwart the evil Bowser time after time.
- So Nintendo says this. That leaves two other questions: does the rest of the world refer to Mario as such, and should it be mentioned in the article's opening sentence? MuZemike 02:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
I didn't see anything in that news report MuZemike. And Sesu Prime, thx for the support.
I have found a link. Here it is, with a little, as George Lopez would say, "WHAPAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"--Red Slayer 02:22, 19 July 2009 (UTC) http://www.freewebs.com/marioandluigi4eva/historyofml.htm
BTW: It's at the top.
- To clarify my stance: I don't think it belongs in the first sentence as he's not widely known as such (that fansite doesn't prove that instances of him being called "Mr. Nintendo" are widespread). -sesuPRIME 02:35, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
So much for your support.............--Red Slayer 02:54, 19 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkyrie Red (talk • contribs)
- The titles that the reporters give are what you should be looking at. Futhermore, reliable secondary sources are not the same as self-published sources, which is what you have listed above; you should have learned that from Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Runescape Riots. Your taunt above is uncivil at the least, and I advise against making such comments in the future if you wish to continue editing here. Such further incivility may lead to you being blocked, which none of us want to see happen. This is not YouTube, 4chan, or MySpace. We treat fellow editors here with respect. Thank you, MuZemike 07:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
MuZemike...."You know, you remind me of my father. I hated him!!!!!!" Lol, jk. Quote from The Joker in The Dark Knight. Anyway, I didn't mean for that quote to be offensive, rather more as a disappointed statement. It won't happen again.
Now, since my link didn't seem to be of much help, I'm going to continue on what Sesu Prime said above, about the SSBM trophy. If the whole Mr. Nintendo thing was put on a trophy by Nintendo, then that's a way of saying that Nintendo itself is saying that Mario is indeed Mr. Nintendo--Red Slayer 19:14, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- So we should appeal to authority and take it as true? MuZemike 20:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, seeing your stance in all of this I doubt you'd agree to it, but yes. If the shoe fits--Red Slayer 23:52, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
BTW: MuZemike I read your comment on Kung Fu Man's talk page. Do you support me in this argument?--Red Slayer 23:52, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
- I'm wary as hell as saying "he's also called Mr. Nintendo" when we only have one passing reference in a video game trophy for a character of this importance (added to that can we confirm the japanese version has it too?).--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:01, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
- I can tell you that "ミスター•ニンテンドー" (Misutā Nintendō, lit. "Mister Nintendo") appears in the first sentence of Mario's trophy in the English version of Melee when the language is set to Japanese. My Japanese language skills are very limited, so that's all the help I can offer. -sesuPRIME 01:01, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
The Mr. Nintendo comment could just be a very fancy way of saying he is Mario's flagship character. Like what was mentioned, I doubt Melee as the absolute evidence, not only because it is merely a passing reference and no other official source agrees, but also that the trophy descriptions in that game are often loaded with errors. Even if Mario is confirmed to be labeled as "Mr. Nintendo," I don't think it's appropriate to be in the first sentence. Maybe in the "Impact" section, but definitely not in the opening sentence. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 12:33, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
No, it was put there because Nintendo wanted it put there as a way of telling its audience that Mario is the leader of Nintendo, one of the biggest successes for Nintendo. It wasn't an error or fancy way of saying he is Mario's flagship character (whatever that means)--Red Slayer 13:37, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
As for the first sentence argument, I beg to differ. It should be in the first sentence because I've seen other articles that put the aka thing in the first sentence (example the A-Rod nickname in Alex Rodriguez's page). And even if you don't want it, what's 6 words (often referred to as Mr. Nintendo) really going to do to the article? It certainly won't mess up all of the valuable information in it--Red Slayer 13:37, 20 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkyrie Red (talk • contribs)
I meant Nintendo's flagship character, that was an oversight, and it's no reason to start taunting people. There's a difference between Alexander Rodriguez and Mario. It is widely known his nickname is A-Rod (he is referred as such by the media and people in general), but how many people actually call Mario "Mr. Nintendo"? Therefore it's not appropriate to refer to a character by an obscure label in the first sentence; simply saying that he is Nintendo's mascot (which is already there) delivers the same message. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 14:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
But Mario has been referred to Mr. Nintendo, by Nintendo themselves. Therefore it wouldn't matter on popularity because the creators themselves have called him it. Therefore it should be mentioned in the first sentence. Oh and I didn't know I was taunting you; sorry about that--Red Slayer 18:24, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
BTW- What is a flagship character--Red Slayer 18:24, 20 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkyrie Red (talk • contribs)
- Hence, my "appeal to authority" argument (which is a logical fallacy, by the way, if I didn't mention that earlier). Just because the "man in the white coat" (in this case, Nintendo) says something about Mario being "Mr. Nintendo", does mean that it must be universally-accepted fact. In fact, from all the other sources that I have seen, reporters refer to "Mr. Nintendo" as to either Miyamoto or a Nintendo console. I have still yet to see in a single reliable secondary source that Mario is referred to as such (keep in mind that online forums and most blogs are self-published sources and hence are not reliable). MuZemike 18:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
The argument that you're proposing is similar to this scenario. If Jimbo Wales was to say that he helped found Misplaced Pages you wouldn't believe him unless he made a website and posted that on it, or someone made a biography of him. Either way, it would lead to the same conclusion. The same goes here--Red Slayer 20:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkyrie Red (talk • contribs)
That's exactly what Misplaced Pages DOESN'T do. Anybody can post on some blog that they founded Misplaced Pages, but that doesn't automatically make them trustworthy just because it's on the Internet. It has to be a source that is reliable and notable, like a CNN news website or a website written by an expert in the field of interest.
BTW, a flagship character is a staple character of a company, like Sonic is to Sega, Mickey Mouse to Disney, and Bugs Bunny to Warner Bros. Mario is a staple character and the mascot of Nintendo, so it's understandable that the writers referred to Mario as "Mr. Nintendo" in the SSBM trophy to summarize this quality. But such a passing reference is so small and obscure that it may confuse people who already understand "Mr. Nintendo" as someone or something else, so that only if several notable websites explicitly refer to Mario as "Mr. Nintendo" that it can be added. For now, it is already mentioned (and widely known) that Mario is Nintendo's mascot, so the "Mr. Nintendo" reference is unneeded. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 21:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I think that I have a solution to this argument that will end it once and for all. You know how the nickname A-Rod is on both Alex Rodriguez's page and Andy Roddick's page? It's because they are both referred to that nickname. So, if I/We were to put the Mr. Nintendo nickname on both Mario's and Shigeru Myamoto's page. That way, the name would appeal to both and thus favor all of us. How does that sound?--Red Slayer 01:26, 21 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkyrie Red (talk • contribs)
- It sounds like you're missing the point to be honest. One reference is not going to cut it.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:03, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
My point is to please everyone, and since everyone argues that Mario is not the only Mr. Nintendo, my solution is to put the Mr. Nintendo nickname on the pages that also deserve this nickname. What's the point that you're proposing, cause, and I say this to not insult you, it sounds like you're just trying to create another argument to support your previous one--Red Slayer 02:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valkyrie Red (talk • contribs)
Well, I've been waiting for about 2 days now and so far no one has argued with my solution, therefore, I am going through with it. If you have any problem with it, please, do contact me on my talk page. Now, don't say that I didn't warn you that I was going through with it.--Red Slayer 20:17, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
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