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• Refining the administrator elections process
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• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
• Proposed rewrite of WP:BITE
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User:Mcjakeqcool

User:Mcjakeqcool was first brought to the community's attention through a thread in WP:VG where someone raised a concern about the number of articles he was creating. We then proceeded to deal with some of these articles, turning them to redirects of deleting them. Taking a look at the user's talk page quite well demonstrates the amount of controversy they has caused.

The user has been warned, but has vowed to continue, stating about "my project" and warning editors that he will challenge deletions (despite the fact that there has been few, if any, opposition to any deletion). User adoption was also suggested, but this idea was also refuted (or should I say "DENIED") by the user, stating that they would instead continue editing by their own accord.

Basically, this user has been a pain in the neck. They refuse to stop their editing, despite it breaching key policies, and have repeatedly stated what rights they have granted us editors. A block seems harsh, as the editor still seems to be acting in good faith, but as they evidently don't want to accept the rules, it may be the only way to get them to listen. What view do the community and administrators have on this situation, and what do they suggest we do to help this editor recognise the rules?

Apologies if this isn't the correct theatre for a discussion that doesn't immediately require an administrator's action. If so, please move this to the correct place and notify me on my talk page. Cheers. Greg Tyler 16:10, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Just looking at what you've written here (I haven't viewed any of the links or background info), it might be more appropriate to seek out some dispute resolution, especially if you feel he is acting in good faith. If he's not open to this, and his editing continues to be disruptive, then administrative action could probably be considered. Hersfold 18:49, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I've informed Mcjake of this thread. Hersfold 18:51, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

My bottom line is that is appears this user does not care what advice, suggestions, helpful hints, or outright warnings they receive. They will continue to do what they want. For more than a month they've been creating articles with one or two sentences. These articles have repeatedly been redirected or deleted. Yet the user continues to create more articles in the same vein. Several times, suggestions on how to create good articles has been posted to their talk page, yet there is no change. As noted above, the user has refused possible adoption so that they can be a better contributor to Misplaced Pages. Something needs to be done so that people aren't wasting their time with the articles they continue to create and expect others to cleanup, add content to, or otherwise deal with. --TreyGeek (talk) 19:50, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

McJakeQCool has been active since late 2008. He seems unable to comprehend advice given and equally unable to string together a sensical sentence. His article creations are copy-pastes, a sentence or two stating that it's a game for X system which at the bottom features the actual text displayed by stub templates and categories entered while editing normally (see this from a couple of days ago for example). Virtually all of them are on games which any editor would struggle to locate reliable sourcing on (a good reason for them not being here in the first place). Dispute resolution or anything involving.. y'know, communication, is going to be as effective as fighting a fire with petrol, since inability to communicate and respond to communication is the issue. I don't think there is any malice or intention to disrupt anything, but the result is the same. If the result of months of being here has not even instilled the knowledge of how to add categories, discern a reliable source or even write a proper stub then I fail to see who is gaining what from this. Please take another look at this, the problem isn't going to suddenly correct itself. Someoneanother 21:05, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

My present statement is that I try my uttermost best to contibute postively to wikipedia, however I do comprehend all advice given to myself, I agree to colabarate with fellow wikipedians if nesersery as I already have with user Otumbu. mcjakeqcool 21:27, 25 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcjakeqcool (talk • contribs)

You were offered adoption by one of the video game project's friendliest and most helpful members, despite him not having much time, and you turned it down. Just over a week ago you received a friendly note pointing you to Misplaced Pages:Starting an article. That guide contains pointers such as "Things to avoid - A single sentence or only a website link". Today you created this, which is now listed as an AFD in a note at the bottom of your talk page after a string of deletion notices and requests for you to edit more contructively. You aren't getting it, at all, repeated assurances that you are will not allow you to carry on like this forever and a day. I really really don't want to focus on you (or any other editor), make you feel bad or anything like that, but you're just creating messes for others to clean up and are point-blank refusing to do anything about it. Someoneanother 00:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I hate to mention the possibility of an WP:RFC/U, but if admin action is not necessary at this point with other venues having been tried to salvage something useful from this user, (I have mentioned the idea of adoption or mentorship, but both were thrown back in the offerers' faces.) then I think we may have to do up one. MuZemike 07:51, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

The ongoing disruption has already been observed and commented on by multiple contributors, yet there has been no sanctions brought or change in behaviour. Rather than tie up what is a simple case of obliviousness or ignorance in red tape there needs to be some kind of boundary. Either that or we forget the whole thing, nominate further abortive 'stubs' for speedy and revert unhelpful article additions on sight, there is no more point in trying to reason with McJakeQCool than having a slanging match with a bookcase. Someoneanother 13:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I believe admin action is necessary. The user has received friendly advice on creating and developing articles ( ), been offered to be adopted (), and has received numerous pending deletion notices ( this from just this month) on articles the user has created. The user's response is to deny adoption (), states they will carry on and will challenge deletions on the article's talk page (), incorrectly instructs Wikipedians on how to "wikify" an article (), created articles with the edit summary of "DO NOT DELETE OR MERGE ARTICLE AS IT HAS BEEN WIKIFIED", and makes statements that appears they believe they are doing things correctly (). All the while, the user continues to create new articles in the same unconstructive manner.

This is disruptive editing practices, in my opinion, and something should be done about it. --TreyGeek (talk) 14:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I must point out I did not refuse to collaborate with Guyinblack25, I simply refused to have him adopt my account, my ambition is to continue on with my project, until it is done, then I will think of another way to contribute to wikipeida, altough I accept my project is controversial, it is a landmark event not only for myself, but for wikipedia as a whole. mcjakeqcool 18:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

For clarification of the unenlightened, what is your project? And whilst you say it is a "landmark event" for Misplaced Pages, does it follow policy? Because if not, it has no place on Misplaced Pages. Greg Tyler 20:07, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

• Note: mcjakeqcool has been blocked by an admin uninvolved in this discussion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:46, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully Mcjakeqcool will now recognize that the path he was taking wasn't so much controversial as plain wrong, and will reconsider the advice that has been given. Someoneanother 12:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Judging from their response to the block () I have my doubts that there will be much change. I suppose we'll find out next time Mcjakeqcool edits now that their block has expired. --TreyGeek (talk) 13:15, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

User seems to imply they've changed, though I haven't a clue what they plan now. The post seems to be saying "I'll stop creating new articles and start creating stubs." 'Tis probably worth waiting to see what they do before we can make any assumptions. Greg Tyler 15:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Looks to me like they're saying that, instead of going through "List of whatever games" articles and creating stub articles for all the unlinked ones, they're going to add their little stub articles *next* to the titles of the unlinked ones. I don't think that constitutes a significant improvement... rdfox 76 (talk) 01:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

@User:Greg Tyler

My project is a attempt to vastly brodern the campisity of video game articles with-in wikipeida, however I have adopted which I will hope will be a less controversial approach, in which instead of createing new articles and 'stubs' I will but a 'stub' sized description of each game beside each game, hopefully this will be a non-controversial answer to user mcjakeqcool's original project. mcjakeqcool 14:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, he's tried adding a paragraph to the redlinks in List of Atari 5200 games, and promptly been reverted. I've recommended that he tries constructing an article in his sandbox that has a para on each of the redlinked games, together with a lede on how games for this piece of kit are generally notable. It'll keep him busy, and he might turn out something that can be used - I can see his point about wanting complete info, and although the individual games are not notable enough to warrant articles, I think you could group them to make one article.Elen of the Roads (talk) 10:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Guys, I don't know if this thread has actually been helping. Try taking it to a less dramatic venue.--Misplaced Pages AN/I Administrator please sort out this problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bank Lady On A Large Scale (talk • contribs)

Numerous problems caused by User:Pedro thy master

Relevant links

• Pedro thy master (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Pedro thy master/Archive
• Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Pedro thy master

User talk page before deletions with all the warnings (notice TOC and all the redlinks)

• Note that user NEVER discusses, only blanks his talk page.

AfDs

• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Brandon Lemuel
• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Puss in Boots: Story of an Ogre Killer

We need MANY eyes to follow this editor closely:

• His English is terrible, so nearly all his edits need copy editing.
• He's used socks to preserve his work, been blocked for it, and then threatened that he'd do anything to protect his edits.
• He should be followed by CU clerks, since he's likely used many socks that haven't been discovered.
• He has created an article about an unnotable chiropractor just because he thought he was great.
• He then created a list of chiropractors for the purpose of promoting them.
• Some of his work has already been deleted and/or nominated for deletion, but more should likely get AFDed.
• Instead of heeding the many warnings he has received, he deletes them from his talk page. His talk page history is a story in itself.
• He doesn't understand the need for consensus.
• He uses terrible sources, including Misplaced Pages itself.
• He engages in OR and crystal ball.
• He removes redirects without discussion, and those redirects sometimes actually point to sourced content. He then replaces them with stubs with no sources, and they are about future events whose notability has obviously not been established.
• He rarely discusses his edits on talk pages.
• He even made some very weird vandalism of the subpage that controls my user page after I had complained about him.
• He doesn't understand our policies much at all.
• I suspect he is very young, very immature, and/or is incapable of adapting to our environment as a useful editor.

I first noticed his problematic edits about July 22, but he likely has a long history before that. Just since July 22 he's caused enough problems to keep a cleanup crew busy full time.

His edit history is a rich mine of problems, so please start following his work. You will be quickly and richly rewarded with many finds. Maybe he'd manage better if he edited his own language Misplaced Pages, but I suspect he'd cause problems there as well. To stop the disruption, he needs a whole gaggle of mentors as nannys to hold his hands 6" ABOVE HIS KEYBOARD. He needs their advice and permission before he touches it! Right now he's a big liability for the project. Brangifer (talk) 05:03, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

• Have any diffs to back up all those accusations? I would like ti see some evidence of this behavior.— Dædαlus 08:40, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

• I understand the need for diffs, but this case is so consistent and all pervasive that a 5 minute check of his edit history since July 22 will quickly reveal the problems I'm mentioning. Brangifer (talk) 14:01, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

• Still, it would be helpful to provide, say, 3 to 5 diffs of specific things. Baseball Bugs carrots 14:09, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

• Thy Master... isn't that the product Suzanne Somers used to advertise? Baseball Bugs carrots 14:09, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

• LMAO! (Or perhaps I am laughing my thighs off? :-) -- ǝʌlǝʍʇ ǝuo-ʎʇuǝʍʇ 00:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

• Just look at his talk page history. The many warnings there will give you an obvious clue to the problems. Just fix the ones you discover. Brangifer (talk) 14:19, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

• A vage handwave isn't enough. Since the account's editing privileges were suspended in April 2009 there have been 19 edits to User talk:Pedro thy master. (I get more than 19 edits in 3 months on my talk page.) 11 of those are simple courtesy notices of deletion nominations, created automatically by Twinkle, sometimes multiple notices about the same article. A further 1 is a notice of this very discussion. And 1 is a notice of a editing privileges being revoked for using sockpuppetry in an attempt to defraud. Please provide specific diffs of edits by this account that are cause for action and that haven't, moreover, already been addressed with administrator action. Uncle G (talk) 14:57, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

He blanks his talkpage regularly, so you may not be seeing a full view . Having said that, his behaviour does seem more like juvenile over-enthusiasm than maliciousness.Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:20, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I am not implying maliciousness, but a disruption nonetheless. Brangifer (talk) 00:54, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

• Yea, ok - I can see that a lot of edits are problematic - but they appear to be mostly good faith mistakes more than a deliberate attempt to vandalize or disrupt. Perhaps English isn't the native language, perhaps the age is young, perhaps they just need to learn the ropes. The last time I looked, we don't over-react to things like that here (or at least we're not supposed to). If the editor makes mistakes, talk to him/her - if they continue without heeding advice - warn. Removing edits from one's own talk pages is perfectly acceptable. (See: WP:BLANKING) I suspect that someone good at the "mentor" thing could work wonders here. I just don't see anything actionable at this point. — Ched :  ?  18:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I have not implied any lack of good faith or deliberate vandalism or such like. I am not even asking for a block or ban. I'm just asking for more eyes on the situation. I thought this was the place to go for that. Unfortunately many warnings have been given, deleted, and obviously ignored. Mistakes are things that just happen and get corrected when pointed out, but these are continuous problems caused by ignoring direct warnings and advice.

Sysop ESkog is probably the admin who knows this user's problematic behaviors best. He has issued numerous warnings with little if any effect. Normally I would provide diffs with each point I have mentioned. If this had been a situation with very specific and limited problems, I would have done so. In this case the problems are so all-pervasive that the user's edit history and talk page history are very adequate as diffs. Seriously, just close your eyes and click. You will likely find some form of policy or guideline violation, or other problem that has been created for others to fix, or very often totally delete. Just try it for two minutes. You'll be surprised. Then come back and tell what you find. Very little of what this user does exists very long, but it often involves various deletion processes and formalities involving many users and much wasted time. I just want more eyes on this situation. That's all. I hope that's okay. Brangifer (talk)

Fair enough - and I agree that ESkog is doing an exceptional job in watching this. I'll look in when I have the chance, and if communication and improvements are not forthcoming, then we'll have to pursue alternate measures. I just noticed some Tina Fey edits, so I won't be surprised if ESkog isn't forced to do something here before too long. — Ched :  ?  06:41, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

• At this time, I don't support any kind of long-term block, but might apply more short-term blocks as necessary. In general, "Pedro" doesn't seem malicious, and he doesn't tend to make the same mistake multiple times. Take, for instance, his correct uploading today of a non-free image, complete with licensing tag and rationale. Yes, it's frustrating to deal with folks who don't get our policies and practices right away, and yes, it's better when people look around to see how things are done before just diving in, but I don't think we're close to ban territory on this one. (ESkog) 02:13, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree. I have never demanded a ban or block. Of course the use of short-term blocks, as you suggest, is an option when the user refuses to comply with warnings. Warnings aren't working, so something else needs to be done. What about enforced mentorship? Otherwise we'll need someone using most of their time preventing his blunders from causing AfDs, which then waste lots of other user's time. More eyes are needed, IOW place this user on your watchlists. Brangifer (talk) 02:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

ChrisG's block of BullRangifer

I've blocked BullRangifer for 12 hours for spamming me (via email) about this. It would be understandable if the email was something like "Please help, blablabla is being disruptive he did x to article ] (diff) and is now breaking civil (diff2,diff3)". However this is not an urgent situation in need of a block and I personally think he was spamming to try and influence the outcome of the discussion. --Chris 08:31, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Are you saying that you're known to be biased or that the email asked you to do something inappropriate? I'm a bit confused about why a block was called for here. Shell 20:26, 27 July 2009 (UTC) Strike that, I'm completely confused - above Brangifer clearly states there is no need for a block but that the editor doesn't appear to be learning from warnings. This leaves open avenues for mentorship or other interventions. Perhaps this didn't need urgent admin attention, but where else would you put this kind of request? I guess the question that I feel needs explained here is what could have possibly been in a single email that would deserve a 12 hour block? Shell 20:38, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Now that my block has expired, and my honor permanently besmirched, here's the (highly offensive and obviously improper canvassing - NOT) content:

• "Please take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Numerous_problems_caused_by_User:Pedro_thy_master"

That's ALL of it. I only wanted more eyes on the situation. I had no idea if he would do anything, and no way of knowing what type of advice he might provide. He might have agreed with me or scolded me. I couldn't know. I just hoped that an experienced admin like him might provide some words of wisdom. I guess I assumed he would AGF, but I was sadly disapointed. He shot first, without knowing what was going on, and hasn't even asked later.

I have asked Chris G to explain on my talk page. That is a subsection and the whole section should be read. I invite anyone to comment there. I hope that this invitation isn't considered a blockable offense. I'm really unsure what to do now for fear of getting blocked without warning for common practices here. I have never been warned that this or the type of email I sent might be improper. Brangifer (talk) 00:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• As an uninvolved editor who came here via seeing the cited AfD's (and who rarely visits and has never before commented at WP:AN/I) I have to say that IMHO blocking Brangifer for that seemed awfully previous, Chris. The bloke was only looking for help. Plutonium27 (talk) 01:12, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• I would like to see some further discussion of the 12-hour block on Brangifer, even though an unblock request was denied and the block has expired by time. Unless I am missing an aspect of the situation, which certainly is quite possible, I do not see a good basis for this block. (For the avoidance of doubt, I'm commenting here as one editor and not in any other kind of capacity whatsoever. This I hope is obvious, but the question has come up before when I chime in on ANI.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• I agree. I would like to understand the situation. For one thing my honor has been besmirched, and that means a lot to me. The first and only semi-legitimate block I've ever had (before now) was also on a very questionable basis which the blocking admin never did satisfactorily explain. The second was an April Fool's joke and nothing happened to that admin. This one is also of a questionable nature. I'd like to understand the current situation so as to avoid having this happen again. I try to follow policy and have been acting in good faith. If I screwed up, I'd like to understand in what way I did so. Then I can do better in the future. It's all about our learning curve here, and I try to have a positive one. Yes, a discussion would be enlightening for everyone. Wouldn't it be a good idea to create a subsection heading for this discussion? Brangifer (talk) 03:33, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• per NYB - Yes, I agree - that one did kind of catch me off-guard. I'm not familiar with what the email contained, obviously. It just did seem to be overly harsh however. I'll freely admit that I may be missing some background, history, or another thread somewhere - but at this point, I don't understand the reasoning for it.

BullRangifer, I do commend you for asking for extra eyes on this, as well as not over-reacting in the "He needs to be blocked" sense in this thread. — Ched :  ?  06:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• A quick look at the Dana Ullman discussion above should convince everybody that I am not exactly a friend of BullRangifer. But I also suspect that this block was a mistake. I notice that Chris G stopped editing after blocking BullRangifer and leaving a message here (but not on BullRangifer's talk page). This looks a bit like a typical late night or just before going home from work block. And Chris G hasn't edited in the more than 24 hours since the event. So it looks like the typical bad judgement when someone is tired and feels under time pressure. Perhaps we shouldn't start dramatising this before Chris is back and has had a chance to make up his mind. Hans Adler 13:23, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• Hans, I suspect you're right. We can all make mistakes, and that's what I suspect here. I'm just interested in clearing my name and block log. I'm also interested in learning, so as not to make mistakes in the future. I know we don't always agree, so I very much appreciate your fairness and obvious sense of justice in this situation. Thanks again. Brangifer (talk) 14:15, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• I too would really like to see a fuller explanation of why BullRangifer needed to be blocked; he posted above the content of the e-mail, is that really all there was? Did he send it more than once? I'm at a loss to understand, given the lack of a detailed rationale, why sending a one line e-mail one time to one person merits any sort of block. Chris_G really needs to explain this action, and it does not reflect well that he hasn't done so yet either here or on the blocked editors talkpage. I'm also disappointed in the review of the unblock request - "canvassing is naughty." Honestly? Is this the level of "review" we should expect on unblock requests? Nathan 13:55, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• I think that the reason why both the block and the review happened as they did may have to do with the messages posted by J Milburn and Sandstein in the 18 hours preceding it. Each came from an admin who was irritated to get an email from BullRangifer, and each was immediately deleted by him. So the block seems to have happened after irritating, though probably good faith, emails to at least three admins. As it seems they were not all about the same topic and since there wasn't a clear warning, I am just trying to explain, not justify, what happened. Hans Adler 14:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• I don't recall that there was actual irritation, so much as wonderment, as I hadn't required an answer or action in those messages which were on other topics. They were just FYI-type emails. Brangifer (talk) 23:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• On re-reading the relevant thread, together with subsequent comments, I will concede that it would have been better had I not declined the unblock request. I would like to apologise to Brangifer. --Anthony.bradbury 19:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• Apology accepted. Thanks Anthony. You are a gentleman. Brangifer (talk) 23:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• I have emailed Chris and hope for a response soon. Brangifer (talk) 00:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• This is worrying as it could have an effect on other editors considering emailing an administrator. I think it needs to be made clear that this was not a sufficient reason for a block. And BullRangifer's block log should be cleared as this is an exceptional case. Dougweller (talk) 05:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• Yes, his rapid response to a one line email - how is that spamming? - seems to show a lack of understanding of the role of an administrator. His continued failure to respond here is as worrying. Administrators should not make blocks if they know that they're going to be away from a computer for a few days, if that is indeed the case here. Mathsci (talk) 07:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I apologize. My block was out of line and I am sorry for any inconvenience it may have caused you Brangifer. At the time I felt like it was the correct thing to do but after sleeping on it and reviewing my actions it was a poor choice. --Chris 10:48, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Apology accepted. Chris, this just shows that I need to welcome you to the club....of human beings. We all make mistakes. ;-) Now is there someone who will clear my block log? Brangifer (talk) 13:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I have written some of my thoughts here:

• My block log parsed

Brangifer (talk) 14:00, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Clearing a blocklog requires a developer and is generally not done; more likely that you will find someone able to issue a 1 second block/unblock with a message about the prior block. Thanks, ChrisG, for your response. Nathan 13:08, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I would gladly do this, but I think the appropriate person here is the Admin who blocked him. Dougweller (talk) 13:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Topic ban threats at WT:TOKU

{{resolved|Issue being discussed at WP:RFAR#Request for clarification: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ryulong (3) — The Hand That Feeds You: 13:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)}}

See Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Tokusatsu#Search soon to begin

Ryulong and JPG-GR have stated that they will seek me topic banned from Power Rangers and tokusatsu articles should I put up another page in those categories for deletion for verification issues. As many of you know, there was previously an AN discussion about Ryulong warning him against his past "if you do it, I will seek that you get blocked" statements. Now, these two editors are stating things like "if you do it, we will seek that you get topic-banned". Ryulong is stating that he will do it through community discussion, while JPG-GR is apparently doing it due to the conduct probation on me, which I don't see how this applies. There is also currently a request for clarification here regarding it. I am not asking anyone to do anything about JPG-GR, but I am about Ryulong. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 01:31, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I do however have to apologize for my tone in the late part of the discussion. Please forgive me. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 01:36, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Mythdon has done absolutely nothing to contribute constructively in the topic area that Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Tokusatsu covers. All he has done is request sourcing, and then send articles to AFD for which he personally cannot find any sources for. This was last evident in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/King Mondo, where reliable sources were found, but he dismissed them anyway. He has most recently decided to search for reliable sources on the five remaining articles on individual episodes of Power Rangers and will send them to AFD because he will inevitably never find what he considers reliable sources for the pilot episode, as well as a few other major episodes to the series as a whole. JPG-GR (talk · contribs), an administrator who primarily edits in the topic area (or had), plainly stated that if Mythdon went through with his plan, he would begin a discussion to ban Mythdon from editing any and all pages that are within the scope of WikiProject Tokusatsu.

I know that I am only a few editors in the WikiProject who are tired of Mythdon's strict applications of policy and the constant drain on our resources to make every single page comply with his demands. I've wanted to have him banned from the topic area long before the arbitration case that made it fairly clear that he should not do as he is planning without input from other users. We gave him input, he simply does not like it. He is such a pain in the ass to editors who are involved in the WikiProject and who actually contribute. I've written up articles. JPG-GR has written up articles. Other editors have written up articles or worked on already existing articles. Mythdon has done none of this. All he does is randomly question when IP users add information to the article about things that happened in a recent episode of a TV show that Mythdon does not watch, yet he still undoes or reverts their edits. I know that if I had enough time, I could give diffs and whatnot, and I am sure that JPG-GR, once he is notified of this debacle, will provide enough information to further elaborate his and my case against Mythdon.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 01:46, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I did watch Power Rangers, and yes, JPG-GR already has been notified. See their talk page. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 01:49, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I see this thread as a direct violation of your probation: 1) Mythdon is placed under conduct probation for one year, in relation to WikiProject Tokusatsu and Ryulong, broadly construed. This includes, but is not limited to, edit warring and failing to appropriately pursue dispute resolution and to show better communication skills. 2) Any uninvolved administrator may utilize discretionary sanctions, including topic bans and blocks, to enforce this probation. 3) 6) Mythdon is strongly urged: (A) To take his specific concerns about the verifiability of the articles to a wider venue such as Misplaced Pages:Village Pump, other sister WikiProjects or the Verifiability policy talk page itself and consult his views with others. He is then advised to report the views of others to WikiProject Tokusatsu for discussions; (B) To enhance his level of communication with editors.

This is not the first time I've seen you be disruptive in the past few days. As far as I'm concerned, you are socially incompetent to be a member of this project. Tan | 39 02:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

(Considering the project in question involves shows with people in rubber costumes beating the crap out of each other, I'm not entirely certain that's a bad thing...) HalfShadow 02:11, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean by that? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 02:19, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

This belongs over at RFAR. I can't read the case result to mean that Myth can't start AfDs or work on the project, but someone else might rightfully do so. The arbs can clarify and then myth can be topic banned or not topic banned. If the case is found to cover this behavior, then the topic ban should hold and myth should find some other area to edit. If the case is not found to hold, then these pretty bold threats should be retracted. Also, tan, I'm not sure "As far as I'm concerned, you are socially incompetent to be a member of this project." is a terribly productive comment for this discussion. Protonk (talk) 03:42, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, if they clarify that AfD is not covered by the probation, then further threats would be even worse than threats now. provided that community discussion supports my AfD procedures. Until anything is clarified, I will not put another article in the subject area up for deletion. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 03:45, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Protonk: Whether or not Mythdon can or will be topic banned is up to the community, not the arbitration committee. He is under arbitration restrictions, but a topic ban proposal should definitely not be forbidden from taking place.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 03:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

If you take a look at the enforcement of the probation, topic bans are an enforcement by administrators. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 03:54, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

A topic ban can be proposed by a user and then confirmed by the community and enforced by the administrators.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I know. You should also know that administrators can, if they choose, topic ban me if I am inconsistent in terms of conduct at WikiProject Tokusatsu, but as far as I know, I am consistent in terms of conduct, but ArbCom will clarify whether the AfD thing is part of the probation. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 04:04, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I've been well-aware of Mythdon's habitual disruption for some time now, even before the arbitration case. During the period when I was either editing anonymously or not editing at all, I occasionally checked WT:TOKU and found it consisted largely of highly-disruptive edits by Mythdon. His behavior has not improved one bit since the arbitration case. Further, I'm not sure if a topic-ban from pages under WP:TOKU will be sufficient to curb his disruption; after the arbitration case, he took his disruption to other pages, such as Common Era. There was a long discussion on his talk page about that fracas, where he proves that he is incapable of understanding the rudiments of WP:V and WP:CITE. One arbitrator, FayssalF, has censured Mythdon over his behavior well after the arbitration case was closed. You may view the discussion; I agree with FayssalF's statement that "Mythdon is not here to work collaboratively according to Misplaced Pages rules, guidelines and ArbCom's rulings". Mythdon doesn't just need topic-banned from pages under WP:TOKU; he needs to be restricted solely to contributing new content to Misplaced Pages. This means he should be banned from the entire Misplaced Pages: and Misplaced Pages talk: namespaces and banned from deleting content for any reason or advocating deletion of content on talk pages. jgpTC 04:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Jgp, FayssalF did not say that. He said that was apparently the case. To restrict me from removing content for any reason is not anything anyone can support. You seem to be unaware of the consequences of not citing sources, or having articles that you can't reliably source. Just because I don't actually add content doesn't make me disruptive. I remove unsourced information that needs a source per WP:V and WP:RS. I am not habitually disrupting Misplaced Pages in any way. These AfD's needed to happen, whether or not the result would be in my favor, or other editors favor. I can assure you that I am here to help, not disrupt. My efforts are to motivate sourcing content, not motivate nonsense demands. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 04:21, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I know that 'the community' can topic ban people. But it is totally inappropriate for a wikiproject to topic ban a person simply because that person is afding their articles. We have to ensure that we aren't using the topic ban tool to enforce opinions about content. And frankly when I read the Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Tokusatsu#Search soon to begin thread I don't see a 'community' topic ban. I see an ultimatum: "stop sending articles to AfD or we will topic ban you". Protonk (talk) 04:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Now somebody's getting it. You phrased it well. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 04:30, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Protonk - I understand why I probably should have used different words there, but really, what I said wasn't any different than straight-up blocking someone - "you are not competent to edit here" isn't meant as an insult so much as a statement of fact. For whatever reason, I feel that Mythdon does not have the proper skills - i.e., he is incompetent - to be a productive member of Misplaced Pages's collegiate and collaborative community. Some people use the term "incompetent" as a pejorative term; I meant it in its literal sense. Tan | 39 05:09, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

You're capable and willing to parse the multiple connotations of the word competent. That's why I didn't accuse you of engaging in a personal attack (you didn't) and I didn't demand that you rephrase the comment. But there are less adversarial ways to suggest that someone isn't getting the point or that they are being more of a bother than a help. "Competence", especially in the online world, is a word fraught with import and emotion--as you note, since competence is required accusing someone of incompetence disinvites them from the social world. That's critical and I don't think it is to be tossed around lightly. Protonk (talk) 06:06, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Protonk: The AFDs are not the only issue. It is the fact that Mythdon has not shown in any way shape or form that he can contribute collaboratively with other members of the WikiProject. Mythdon has been shown to be inable to apply sourcing and verifiability policies to the extent that he sends articles to AFD when he personally cannot find anything that he personally believes is a reliable source. He does not contribute to any articles in the scope of the WikiProject, and does not improve the coverage of any articles in the scope of the WikiProject. Instead, he goes "This has no sources" or "This doesn't have enough sources" which to him means "This is not notable" or "This information is not verifiable" when there is more than enough on the internet and in the real world to prove him wrong.

And this sourcing shit goes beyond articles about people in rubber suits beating the crap out of each other. He was told off for his edits at Common Era and a whole bunch of other articles. This thread is wikilawyering to get his way, as he states towards the end of the discussion at WT:TOKU. I have not seen Mythdon contribute constructively anywhere on Misplaced Pages in more than a year of being up my ass (and not in the good way) on the articles I edit and on other articles I see him editing. There was no "community topic ban" produced yet. It was a statement that if he proceeded to edit the way he claimed he was going to, we would discuss the fact that he be topic banned from articles in the scope of WP:TOKU. His actions tonight in starting up this thread have abbreviated the need for this, because he went forward to wikilawyer his way out of getting topic banned by saying JPG-GR and I were acting improperly. I've yet to see a positive contribution come from him. And that is more than enough to get banned from any website.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 05:51, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

sure. But pretend you are me. Look at the TOKU section devoid of context (I know that we are supposed to contextualize these disputes, but bear with me). That conversation has three participants, you, myth and jpg (with some other minor comments from different users). Between the three of you all that gets exchanged is an intent to continue sending articles to AfD, a broad warning that sending said articles will result in a ban, and escalation of rhetoric on either side. I hesitate to call myth's actions wikilawyering because frankly, in the absence of a RFAR allowing a unilateral topic ban for myth, I would be ashamed of jpg's threats. First the sort of officious 'intent to seek a topic ban' statement: "If you attempt to do as you are threatening using your past-documented misinterpretations of policy, I will seek that you are topic banned from all matters Tokusatsu-related. If you are not willing to edit within Misplaced Pages policy, then perhaps you do not need to edit Misplaced Pages." This is followed up a veiled threat, "I'm not trying to persuade you. If you want to edit and follow policy, you will. If you don't, you won't. I'll let your actions, both in general and in relation to your edit restrictions, speak for themselves." Later, you and myth exchange words to the effect that you will seek to topic ban him and then make some vague assertion that his present actions will be proscribed under some future topic ban. This is the opposite of a community forum discussing the ban of a pernicious troublemaker. This is two people in a dispute arguing in an infrequently traveled part of the wiki. I don't mean to say that myth is right. I don't mean to say that he is helpful or that a topic ban, rightly constituted, would be illegitimate. I do mean to say that he shouldn't be considered topic banned now and he isn't wrong to seek some outside input on a process that he clearly has no input on. Protonk (talk) 06:20, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Mythdon is following policies and guidelines and Ryulong is not following policies and guidelines e.g. i added a reference to the Power Rangers article to show that Haim Saban created Power Rangers per WP:Verifiability and WP:No original research then Ryulong starts a discussion on my talk page saying "Do Power Rangers and Mighty Morphin Power Rangers really need references to show that the series was created by Haim Saban? Something like that is so freaking obvious that any statement with that fact in it does not need to be cited." and when i add a fact tag to the Kamen Rider Double article per WP:No original research, Ryulong again starts a discussion on my talk page saying "This is also common sense. Shinkenger is on at 7:30, which is followed by Decade at 8:00, both of which make up the Super Hero Time block. If Double will be airing at 8:00 too, then it will also be part of the Super Hero Time block". Mythdon is not the only user to disagree with Ryulong as me and Drag-5 disagree with Ryulong because he is not following the policies and guidelines. Powergate92Talk 06:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Powergate92, as usual, you don't really add anything to the discussion. Both of those items you bring up are examples of using common sense over requesting that every single sentence on Misplaced Pages be referenced. Bringing up two different instances of where you and I communicated is pointless and helps no one case.

Protonk, I can understand that the page is in no way frequented and it is simply a discussion between Mythdon, myself, and JPG-GR, but this is in all reality just a way for Mythdon to avoid being put under any other restrictions. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the discussion would be taking place in a low-traffic page such as WT:TOKU. Mythdon is by all means in his right to defend himself from being topic banned. However no discussion has taken place, and the arbitration committee does not need to place the restrictions on him. This is instead, as I've been saying, Mythdon wikilawyering his way out of getting banned by throwing aspersions on me for arguing against him. If the arbitration committee needs to place the topic ban, then fine. I just thought that given enough evidence, the community as a whole can see how his activities are deleterious to the topic area, and the project as a whole. If FayssalF saw this, I don't see why the rest of community cannot either.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

For the arbcom thing, we should be clear. IF the arbcom restriction against myth means he must avoid only a narrow set of behaviors, then it cannot (as I see it) apply to sending articles to AfD. If the restriction blocks myth from being nettlesome to the project more generally, then his behavior may be subject to a topic ban at the discretion of someone like jpg. That's the RFAR question. If his past RFAR does not proscribe his current behavior, than you can still start a thread to topic ban him (I would prefer you start an RFC/U or take the discussion to a more active page), but it would be inappropriate for just two editors to act as though a topic ban was imminent. If the RFAR does apply, then the committee should clarify their case and say as much, rendering a community ban discussion moot. Protonk (talk) 18:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

The items i bring up are examples of you not following WP:Verifiability and WP:No original research as Mythdon puts articles up for AfD per WP:Verifiability and WP:No original research. Powergate92Talk 18:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I have a few questions. I hope someone can answer them USING AS FEW WORDS AS POSSIBLE.
i) Is it disrutive for someone to ask for a verifiable reliable source for, eg, "creator of mighty morphing power rangers"?
ii) Is it disruptive for someone to use the production company (and did they actually 'create' it, or just pay money for it? as a reference?
iii) Imagine it is disruptive: What happens? It goes to RFAR, or someone just says "that's it, you're topic banned" or what?
Thanks. NotAnIP83:149:66:11 (talk) 15:05, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Powergate92's statements have nothing to do with the issue concerning Mythdon. Powergate92 is just as bad in interpreting sourcing policies as Mythdon. It is pointless to ask for references for things which exist elsewhere on Misplaced Pages or elsewhere in the article.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:08, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not going to comment on the rights/wrongs of Mythdon's attitude or behaviour. However I AM going to draw people's attention to the King Mondo article that's been mentioned. Unless I'm missing something there are ZERO reliable and verifiable secondary sources. Out of the 21 references, 18 are to the TV show - a primary source, 1 to a comic - a primary source, 1 to IMDB - a user submitted resource and not reliable and 1 linking to an interview with an artist that doesn't even appear to mention the character in question. There are NO reliable secondary sources at all. Could someone tell me how the hell this article was not deleted at it's recent AFD? I see a bunch of keep votes which don't address the reliable sources question AT ALL and a non-admin closure. I'm very tempted to DRV this as a blatantly incorrect AFD. Exxolon (talk) 18:20, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

• For the record, I think topic bans are very poor solutions for people who are not violating the rules, no matter how much they might annoy people by asking for citations for things that are obvious to others. Jclemens (talk) 18:23, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  • DRV filed, all participants in original AFD plus the wikiproject notified. Exxolon (talk) 21:18, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Dear Toku wikipedians, Whatever is happening here for the King Mondo article, is definitely applicable "ad nauseam" to every character under the Tokusatu project. I would suggest that you redirect your collective energies to reaching a consensus of what would constitute a valid referencing standard for all the individual articles that fall under project Toku. There must surely be an article that could be determined the standard by which all other articles will be measured. Don't perpetuate drama!! --76.66.199.118 (talk) 22:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

What the hell does any of this have to directly do with the King Mondo AFD and now DRV? This is a discussion started by Mythdon in defense of a topic ban discussion that has not happened yet, and Protonk's saying that the topic ban should not happen due to there being other RFAR restrictions on Mythdon. RFC/U is a pointless step as it just serves to pick and choose at every bad or questionable thing a user has done. If someone needs to be topicbanned for being unable to contribute constructively, then that person should get topic banned.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:08, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I should not be topic banned. I have helped the articles by removing unsourced information, but you dismiss my removals. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 23:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) I'm not being clear. I'm sorry. You can start a topic ban discussion. I would prefer you use a venue like RFC/U, but you don't have to. The fact that there was a past RFAR case against myth strengthens your topic ban case, not weakens it. What you can't do is say "we are going to have a topic ban discussion in the future, so consider yourself banned from starting AfDs on subject XYZ". All I am saying WRT the arb case is that if the arbs say "yes, we meant that myth can't act this way" then jpg can topic ban him unilaterally. I commented that myth seemed in the right to bring up this question because the discussion linked above looked a lot like a threat of a unilateral topic ban couched in terms of a community ban. I'll try and be crystal clear here. If you can get support for a topic ban from a broad cross section of wikipedians, then you can ban myth from a set of articles. It shouldn't be a discussion held within the confines of a single project because frankly (see the Gavin Collins debate and EnC 1/2) a wikiproject shouldn't have the power to unilaterally shoo away folks looking for sourcing/notability concerns. Is that clear as to my position? Protonk (talk) 23:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  • lol episodes and characters
  • Very well then. There is nothing anywhere that said that the discussion was solely going to take place in the wikiproject. That's just where the discussion of it going to happen started (that and my statement at Mythdon's last clarification request). The issue isn't his sourcing and notability requests. The issue is that he has been shown to be unable to work constructively with other (active) users in the WikiProject. The arbcom appears to be listening to this at the moment.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:23, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

AfD list

Just to make all of you aware, here is a list of AfD's I've started on Power Rangers articles:

1. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Power Rangers episodes (result: keep)
2. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Other Rangers and Ranger-like allies (result: keep)
3. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Power Rangers planets (result: delete)
4. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Dark Rangers (result: delete)
5. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Power Rangers foot soldiers (result: delete)
6. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Power Rangers monsters (2nd nomination) (result: delete)
7. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Other Rangers and Ranger-like allies (2nd nomination) (result: keep)
8. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Power Rangers cast members (result: keep)
9. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of minor Power Rangers characters (result: keep/merge)
10. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lost and Found in Translation (result: redirect)
11. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Spells in Power Rangers: Mystic Force (result: delete)
12. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Power Chamber (result: keep)
13. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Sky Tate (result: delete)
14. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Morphers in Power Rangers (result: delete)
15. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Green with Evil (result: delete)
16. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/King Mondo (result: keep)

Hopefully, this will clarify that they're not disruptive, but just sometimes hard to agree with. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 01:55, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Update

<I've just found more AfD's of mine and will re-make the list by next week> —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 17:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

The list above only lists most of the AfD's. It does not list all of them. I missed some. I'll be creating the new list in my sandbox. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 17:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, here's the updated list with additional AfD's:

1. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Power Rangers episodes (Result; keep)
2. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Other Rangers and Ranger-like allies (Result; keep)
3. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Power Rangers planets (Result; delete)
4. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Dark Rangers (Result; delete)
5. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Power Rangers foot soldiers (Result; delete)
6. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ninja Quest (Result; redirect)
7. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Power Rangers monsters (2nd nomination) (Result; delete)
8. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Marah and Kapri (Result; delete)
9. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Other Rangers and Ranger-like allies (2nd nomination) (Result; keep)
10. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Power Rangers cast members (Result; keep/merge)
11. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of minor Power Rangers characters (Result; keep)
12. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lost and Found in Translation (Result; redirect)
13. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Spells in Power Rangers: Mystic Force (Result; delete)
14. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Power Chamber (Result; keep)
15. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Sky Tate (Result; delete)
16. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Morphers in Power Rangers (Result; delete)
17. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Green with Evil (Result; delete)
18. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/King Mondo (Result; keep)

—Mythdon (talk • contribs) 18:00, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

What's the problem here? Mythdon (talk · contribs) is sending fiction spinoff articles to AfD, and most of them get deleted. That's entirely in line with policy. Even the main Power Rangers article is weakly cited. Only two of the 45 footnotes are to reliable sources. This looks more like typical grumbling from fans when their fancruft articles are held to Misplaced Pages's general standards. --John Nagle (talk) 19:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

And yet Ryulong and JPG-GR are threatening to seek me topic-banned. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 21:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, if your edits are considered no problem, then you have nothing to worry about, do you? I don't see why you felt it was necessary to report Ryulong's and JPG's intention to get you topic banned. What administrator action are you seeking? Some kind of injunction?--Atlan (talk) 21:48, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

It seems as though this discussion is going nowhere. But, as for your question, I am seeking administrative action that administrators see fit. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 21:51, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

That's really vague. Of course this discussion is going nowhere, because nothing actionable actually ocurred. If you don't have any kind of desired resolution this should lead to, this is just needless drama mongering.--Atlan (talk) 22:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. And the issue isn't that he is sending pages to AFD. The issue is that he is sending pages to AFD because he cannot personally find sources for the articles for either major fictional characters who in their right can be considered notable because of his strict interpretations of sourcing and verifiability policies. He only goes out to delete whatever pages he can without bringing them to the attention of WP:TOKU so they can be improved before he sends them to AFD. In the last AFD he made, there were several reliable sources found by an uninvolved editor and he dismissed all of them. There is possibly going to be a discussion concerning topic banning Mythdon from articles in the scope of WP:TOKU because he cannot work constructively with other editors in the scope of the project, of which the AFDs are only a part.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

If I search for sources for an article, and if I cannot find any reliable sources, it would be pointless to consult my search to WikiProject Tokusatsu before taking the articles to AfD. All Misplaced Pages content has to be verifiable, or it cannot be included on Misplaced Pages. Everything has to be notable before it gets an article on Misplaced Pages. I am pretty sure now that when I create my next Power Rangers AfD, that you and JPG-GR will, as you both stated, seek me topic-banned. I am sure of this regardless of the result of the AfD. And, one question: Do you think my AfD list above is a good summary of my nominations? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 23:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't give a shit if it's a good summary of your nominations. You cannot work with other users.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:57, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

How can't I work with other users? Nominating pages for deletion in my ways? Removing unsourced information absent of discussion? How? You should know by now that saying things like "if you put theses pages up for deletion, I will seek that you get topic-banned" is uncalled for, further evidenced by the results of my AfD's. Please know this: The next time I look for sources, and if I don't find sources for an article, that article goes straight to AfD, without question. I'm even planning on nominating other pages for deletion if I can't find sources, within this subject area. I'm sorry, but sometimes, some articles just have to go. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 00:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

The arbitration committee has proven that you strictly interpret the verifiability and reliable source policies and cannot be trusted in determining things on your own. You absolutely should not nominate any pages in the topic area for deletion without consulting WP:TOKU, WP:TV, WP:JAPAN, etc. because it is extremely likely that where you cannot find reliable sources, other users will.

To other readers of this thread, this last statement of Mythdon's is exactly what I have been saying regarding Mythdon's inability to work with other users. He is acting as judge and jury, getting rid of whatever he can't prove.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, I trust that my strict AfD's are beneficial to the project, and I also trust myself in my searches. It would be useless to go through a process that will just get nowhere. The village pump discussion I linked on WT:TOKU only proves that I am right, mostly. Sure, I didn't link to which articles, but it's still the same. And please let me say it again: I will nominate another article for deletion just as soon as sources aren't found, no questions asked, period. I will, at the risk that you'll try to get me topic-banned, do it, if I can't find reliable sources. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 00:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

What the fuck don't you get about the fact that the arbitration committee has advised you to contact other people before sending articles to AFD?

Still, other people reading this, this is why users at WP:TOKU want Mythdon banned. Because he refuses to work with other users.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Just because a WikiProject wants me topic-banned doesn't mean the community feels the same way. And, again, there will be nobody to stop me from sending another article to AfD if I can't find reliable sources. You're perfectly welcome to comment at the next AfD. You're just not welcome to say anything uncalled for. I've been saying it for months, approaching a year: Anything that doesn't have a citation should be removed, unless it is cited. I am, actually, not aiming to get every article in the subject area deleted, but a reasonable amount deleted, but for good reasons. I wouldn't be hurt to see you blocked for your comments almost two days ago. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 00:23, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

These statements should be proof that Mythdon cannot work with other users constructively and that he should be banned in some form.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:42, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Whatever you say will not change anything. End of story. Sorry that it has to come to this. No more replies necessary. I've come to my conclusions, just as you have come to yours. And one more thing, my intention is to help Misplaced Pages, not hurt it, even though you're not assuming my intentions. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 01:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

(Outdent) This doesn't seem to be going anywhere. It would be very helpful to see more references to reliable sources in Power Ranger articles. There are scholarly critiques of the show, such as "The Truth About the Power Rangers", ISBN 0914984675. That doesn't seem to have been referenced anywhere in Misplaced Pages. The proponents of Power Rangers articles may need to do more homework than is currently being done to avoid deletion. This really is an encyclopedia, and you have to do the research to back up your articles. Thanks. --John Nagle (talk) 02:21, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

This description doesn't really look helpful.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 03:50, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

It's a review and a reliable source. Not all critics are fans. I thought neutrality involved negative views as well. We shouldn't ignore real critics in favor of "I saw it on the show, so that's my source." Now, for the larger picture, is Mythdon is sending articles to AFD to make some sort of point, that's a completely blockable offense. However, demanding higher sources isn't and shouldn't be a punishable offense. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, at this point, it's hard to tell with him. I do know that he's sorta violating this, even though it's not a restriction.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 09:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

You know, Ryulong, you're doing a lot of yelling, but all I see here is you trying to get rid of someone you personally dislike who is treading in an area you like to work in. The list of AFD results Mythdon is presenting is most compelling evidence that he's doing genuinely good work, which you just happen to dislike. Jtrainor (talk) 09:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

That is not what the issue is here. Mythdon has not worked with the WikiProject but against it. There are possibilities that these articles could be improved, and that there are reliable sources out there, as the book John Nagle points out above, but Mythdon does not work with other users to improve them. Instead he just sends them to AFD. I'm not saying all of the articles he lists that ended up deleted should be on Misplaced Pages. I'm saying the method by which he goes about sending things to AFD without any outside input is what is a real pain in the ass. He's in his right to request sources, but he does not. He just goes to AFD. This is why I feel he's unhelpful, and this is what a handful of other users, including a few outside of the WikiProject and who have likely never touched an article with "Power Rangers" mentioned, are seeing.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 09:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

And this still isn't going anywhere much, except a few people who just happen to get it, but still, I am glad that the area this is turning is turning out to be okay. I don't see action being taken, and I'm sure plenty of you would consider it punitive rather than preventative now, because it happened two days ago, which even I would probably consider action useless now, for now. That doesn't make action lacking preventative use some time in the future. Jtrainor and Nagle, I hope you both manage to resolve this, whether or not you're administrators, or whether or not you're just regular users who happened to drop by; You two seem to get it, and don't see anything disruptive to it. If anyone's assuming bad faith towards me, I can tell you that you're wrong, and that I'm acting in good faith. Ryulong and JPG-GR (well, if you're reading this), stop the threats and just voice your opinions in my AfD's and get it over with instead of adding nonsense drama. However, honestly, I can't tell the whole community's opinion at the moment. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 15:21, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

It's pretty lame to say those who took your side in the discussion "get it", while all the others don't. The situation simply isn't as black and white as that. I guess it's that kind of attitude that got you on Ryulong's bad side.--Atlan (talk) 16:00, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not a matter of sides but a matter of the views expressed. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 16:05, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Moving from here

Where do we go next? This thread has drawn lots of drama in, and me and Ryulong are still fighting over who's right, as of now.

I don't know, but I'm thinking that this drama that Ryulong and JPG-GR caused during the "Search soon to begin" is unhelpful, and just allowed me to believe that ANI was the only option, backed up by the fact that the AN "is this okay?" discussion warned Ryulong against his previous statements of "if you put this page up for deletion, I will seek that you get blocked". He's not doing that anymore, but he's now doing "if you put this page up for deletion, I will seek that you get topic-banned", but in this discussion, he appears to be using "lack of outside input" as a reason for these new statements that are no less disruptive than the preceding statements. So, where do we go from here? All I'm thinking is that further statements like these will allow me to file a new report next time. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 16:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

The basic complaint seems to be "I'm saying the method by which he goes about sending things to AFD without any outside input is what is a real pain in the ass. He's in his right to request sources, but he does not. He just goes to AFD." Sending an article to AfD, though, doesn't mean instant deletion. It begins a discussion. Proponents of the article have a voice. Articles can be fixed during an AfD and often are. What's happening, though, is that most, but not all, of the articles proposed for AfD actually get deleted. So the AfD nominations aren't futile or mere WP:POINT exercises. The real complaint seems to be that the editors who regularly vote on AfDs support Misplaced Pages's general standards for notability, which are higher than some in the fan community would like. This is a long-running discussion (see WP:FICT). A few years ago, Misplaced Pages standards were lower, but in recent years, there's been a gradual tightening up, now that the problem is no longer getting enough articles, but improving the ones we have. This is a good thing, but it does bother some people. I'd suggest the Power Rangers proponents focus on improving their sourcing. Then the AfDs which bother them will fail. --John Nagle (talk) 16:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

When I look for sources, I don't find any, which is why I put these pages up for AfD. Could the lack of citations on the articles be a sign that there aren't reliable sources? I actually have watched Power Rangers before and enjoyed it, so I should be counted as once in the fan community, but I'm not a fan anymore, as far as I can tell, but I don't know. I don't think they can improve the sourcing, except for citing television episodes which would be primary sources, in fact the subject itself, which we should not use. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 17:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

The issue is that you cannot be trusted to find or not find reliable sources and that you have been weaseling your way out of all of the restrictions and suggestions that have been placed on you by the arbitration committee. In your proposed campaign, you're going to be sending the article on the pilot episode to AFD. You're going to very likely use this search and then say that you can't find any reliable sources.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:19, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes that's very likely that I'll not find reliable sources, and as a result, send it to AfD. If I don't find any reliable sources, there's no question that I'll put the page up for deletion. I feel that I can be trusted to look for reliable sources, beyond doubt. What do you mean by "proposed campaign"? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 00:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Maybe if you actively worked with editors in the topic area, they can find reliable sources where you cannot due to your arbcom-proven inability to do so on your own. Instead of listing the pages for deletion, write up a list of faults, and post it on WT:TOKU instead of asking if your improvements to a random article were okay. Say "This article says this, is that right? Is there something out there that we can say it is true?" instead of saying "Oh, I can't find anything other than fansites that talk about this article. Therefore, it should be deleted."—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:56, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes you just have to ignore discussion and go with action. If you can't cite a sentence, it shall by all means be removed to enforce the encyclopedic integrity of Misplaced Pages as written in WP:V and WP:RS. Asking if my improvements to a random article being okay is not wrong. I think it is, if anything, encouraged by people. If I can't find reliable sources for the next article I search, then, if nothing otherwise happens, there'd be no question that another AfD will be in order. Listen carefully: The next AfD will be by the end of this year (2009). After all, action speaks louder than words. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 02:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

That is not how this project works. You are supposed to work collaboratively with other users. Not choose to do everything on your own and fight it when others challenge you.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 02:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

What I mean is "prior discussion". I am not saying that discussion isn't a primary factor of this project, because I do acknowledge that. I do not say "do not discuss", but say "do not discuss beforehand". —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 03:10, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I also don't say that discussion doesn't enhance future action. I do acknowledge that. It's just that it doesn't seem that I'm talking right. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 03:12, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm ... let's see:

1. Ryulong adds content to Power Ranger articles
2. Mythdon deletes said content, and cites "no WP:RS
3. Bickering on talk page
4. ANI thread started
5. Community rolls eyes
6. WP:BOLD admin closes thread per "Nothing actionable"
7. Return to step 1

result? endless wiki-loop. — Ched :  ?  17:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

This isn't that simple. Mythdon refuses to work with users in the topic area. He could bring up a list of articles that need work in his opinion, but after a Google search he just goes "no reliable sources" and goes to AFD. The arbcom case involving the two of us includes a finding that he is very strict with his readings of policies. This is what is harmful.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 23:19, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Alright, can we at least agree that the resolution cannot be found at ANI? I already stated this discussion is needless drama. We seem to be just going in circles here. Let's just end this. If Ryulong and JPG want to go ahead and initiate a topic ban discussion concerning Mythdon, I'd say let them. If Mythdon wants to go ahead and start Afd's, I'd say let him. Community input will decide the outcome in either scenario.--Atlan (talk) 00:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I am waiting on the arbitration committee to discuss Mythdon's 3rd request for clarification to see if they do something themselves before I take off the kid gloves.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

And I'll be waiting on them too in the meantime to see if AfD has anything to do with my probation. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 02:20, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Myth, where you go from here is this: Ryu has every right to ask for you to be topic banned in a reasonably wide forum of diverse wikipedians (not, in my opinion, in a forum that only includes TOKU members), but he doesn't have the right to perpetually threaten a topic ban in order to get you to act a certain way. You should consider spending less time being the self-appointed shepard of power rangers related content--the issues isn't whether or not you are right but whether or not you can move toward a good solution working in concert. If you are looking to arbcom or AN/I to say "No, ryu can't ask for you to be topic banned", it won't happen. Period. Even if your behavior wasn't unobjectionable and even if you weren't under sanction, it wouldn't be the place for us at AN/I to say you can't be topic banned in the future. As it stands, there is no way we could make that promise. Protonk (talk) 07:22, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
• Per Protonk. Ncmvocalist (talk) 07:32, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Editing restriction proposal

I propose the following restriction:

"Mythdon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is prohibited from asking anyone to nominate an article within the scope of WikiProject Tokusatsu for deletion. Similarly, Mythdon is prohibited from making such a nomination himself. However, Mythdon is free to contribute on the talk pages as appropriate."

Any administrator can impose this restriction under the terms of conduct probation applicable: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Ryulong#Motion_2. The alternative, of course, is to impose it as a community restriction.

The manner in which he is working with other participants from WikiProject Tokusatsu is problematic. He is not learning from the findings of fact issued by ArbCom: ("Mythdon's interpretation of policies and guidelines" and "Mythdon stance toward the articles" immediately after): his interpretation of the verifiability guidelines in this respect are overly strict and at times disruptive. His comments at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tokusatsu#Search_soon_to_begin show he has stated that he will be nominating a wide swath of articles for deletion if he can't find sources (which all other three users involved in that discussion have stated he cannot be trusted to do). Mythdon flatly refused to accept any of the suggestions or pointers offered to him in that discussion, and stated that "Requesting deletion at AfD is gaining consensus." Regrettably, I find no other way to properly prevent wikilawyering and this sort of disruption from happening - and most importantly, it forces Mythdon to work with others in the WikiProject. Ncmvocalist (talk) 09:01, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I think something should be added similar to how TTN was restricted from asking other users to things for him in RFAR/E&C and E&C2, because he's been getting very buddy buddy with Powergate92 (talk · contribs) who shares Mythdon's strict interpretations of sourcing policies. I'm not sure what the exact restriction was.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 09:15, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I've made an adjustment. Bear in mind that my concern is with Mythdon's conduct at this point. Ncmvocalist (talk) 09:24, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

User:Dewan357

Being abusive and racist on the Talk:Pakistan page , constantly disruptive and continous POV in numerous articles, asking politely and warned on numerous occasions, still persistant, user's talk page full of warnings and complaints. Has now become racially abusive. Khokhar (talk) 20:23, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I was about to raise this here myself as an escalation from WQA. The worst one I've seen so far is this one (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 21:04, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Yup, that comment was rather incivil, wasn't it? But I think all he needs is to do is to have a calm down. Wouldn't you agree?--The Great 20th Century Kettle Boiler (talk) 05:13, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Note - this user is currently blocked for 24 hours and was not notified about this thread. I have notified them but of course they will not be able to respond for another 22 hours unless unblocked or a talk page section is transcluded here. Exxolon (talk) 21:27, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I hope you have taken it to his talk page, sir or madam. You could always try to work things over with a good little chat.--The Great 20th Century Kettle Boiler (talk) 05:15, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I feel sorry for the College of New Jersey if the history course there is so bad that he thinks India is one unified racial group, nevermind Pakistan as well. User is a nationalist. User is bushing this nationalist POV and being disruptive and racist while doing so. The key bit about nationalism is that the user is going to be convinced he knows The Truth (tm) and everyone else is wrong, and is unlikely to change. My suggestion - a topic ban from India/Pakistan related articles and a complete ban on any further ad hominem attacks or racial comments. Violating this rule gets blocks of increasing length. Ironholds (talk) 06:16, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd support a ban from articles relating to India or Pakistan, in addition to civility parole. PhilKnight (talk) 23:06, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Support from me. Has he been notified of this thread in some way or shape? Ironholds (talk) 08:49, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

On his talk page. --Anthony.bradbury 19:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Oppose the ban. You blocked him before allowing him a chance to speak here?--The Prejudice (talk) 06:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I just noticed the relationship between this topic and WP:ANI#Nominate for WP:LAME? Ignore? Other?.—Kww(talk) 01:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

The editor has now been blocked for a week. PhilKnight (talk) 17:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

They reinstated the problematic edit noted in the thread linked by Kww above, so in the light of that, previous edit-warring blocks, and this thread, I thought our productive editors could probably do with a break. EyeSerene 18:01, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I do hope this user gets banned from India/pakistan articles and doesn't get away scot free in a week, the user clearly doesn't care about the offence he causes judging by some messages he left on user talk pages after the initial incident and being banned for 24 hours.Khokhar (talk) 19:14, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

K.Khokar, your comment sounds like a personal attack against this editor. You may benefit from learning WP:NPA.--Right Angle Fish 90 (talk) 06:02, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Unacceptable behavior of My cat's breath smells like catfood

This editor, My cat's breath smells like catfood (talk · contribs), is lacking proper etiquette, using Misplaced Pages mainly as a platform for his childish amusements. His edits on various articles are questionable at the very least. New articles he created, such as this one and that one, are unconstructive and perhaps offensive to many who might view it. And his edit summaries are rather unacceptable considering he resorted to offensive language in a few edit summaries including usage of the “F-word” and phrases pertaining to a particular part of the male anatomy.

It is one thing to see a minor edit that isn’t correct, and fix it. But to see an edit like that, and make such a huge deal out of it like this editor did in such a brash way, I’m sure such behavior is absolutely unacceptable. This is an encyclopedia, not a playground for irrational editors to do whatever they wish on here. This nonsense should not be allowed here. I request that an administrator take a look at this editor’s list of contributions see what I’m talking about, and issue a warning to this editor for his intolerable behavior. KeltieMartinFan (talk) 08:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Recent contributions seem a bit worrying - see the edit summary here, this redirect, this edit summary, this article... it goes on - not directly vandaltastic, but disruptive and childish. I noticed you didn't inform him about the AN/I thread, and I've taken the liberty of doing so. Personally I'm in favour of a stern cut-the-crap warning and escalating blocks if he keeps it up after that, but we'll see what he says in reply to the ANI notification. Ironholds (talk) 08:48, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm having trouble finding anything productive in the user's recent edit history. While there's nothing that's over the line enough to warrant an immediate block, we shouldn't encourage people who appear to not be interested in writing an encyclopaedia. Lankiveil 11:59, 29 July 2009 (UTC).

Also note the practical joke on his page (he's mocked up a "You have new messages" alert that leads to the page Practical joke. Fooled me, so nice one! but it's going to piss the hell out of someone with less patience ......Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:04, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, to be fair, he's not the only one with that fake bar. That's an old joke that people did years ago (and some people still have them today). (X! · talk)  · @873  ·  19:57, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I was only thinking it was unwise for an editor whose actions were likely to draw admin attention to his talkpage. I lol'd, but the admin aiming to deliver a final warning might not find it so funny.Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:02, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

As much as I enjoy users with a skewed sense of humor (mine is so offbeat you wouldn't believe it), this guy is over the line. I believe a block is warranted, at least a short-term one. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 15:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

The lyrics on his User page are a copyright violation. I've asked him to remove them. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I've given the user a final warning. If he continues, he should be blocked. (X! · talk)  · @876  ·  20:01, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• Something here reminds me of behaviour from User:Tom Sayle in one of his earlier guises, specifically edits to female celebrities, projectspace interests, and rude edit summaries. → ROUX ₪ 20:04, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I have blocked the account indefinitely until further review. After scanning the user's edit history, it is clear the user is gaming the system, and is focused on one non-encyclopedic issue and coming at it from many angles. Kingturtle (talk) 00:40, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

User:Onesius and punctuation-related edits

User:Onesius (contribs) has been making a number of punctuation- and spelling-related edits which are at odds with WP policy (WP:LQ, WP:ENGVAR, etc.). Several editors have tried to steer him towards policy on his User talk page, but to no avail. He recently left a less-than-civil comment on a User's page, which could be a simple mistake or could be something more. Any opinions on what, if anything, should be done in this situation? Wyatt Riot (talk) 09:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I had a quick look and all of the articles that the user has "corrected" seem to be on American topics, where correcting punctuation to the American dialect would seem to be appropriate. But the comment on that user's page is way out of line, and that level of cold hostility was not warranted or required. Lankiveil 12:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC).

So what's the point of site-wide standards if we're not going to use them? I can understand differences in spelling between US/British/Canadian/etc. articles, but punctuation is a basic element that should be consistently applied throughout the project (in my opinion). If there are to be differences, these should be specified in the style guide (I would disagree with doing this, though). Mindmatrix 17:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

WP:ENGVAR came into play on this edit, at the very least. There may have been others, not sure. Would it be appropriate to rollback these edits, as there are many of them and they clearly go against the current style guidelines (WP:LQ)? Wyatt Riot (talk) 19:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I think so, so long as you note that the edits have been made in good faith and you reference WP:ENGVAR in your edit summary. WP:LQ is disputed, so I wouldn't rollback based on that though. Lankiveil 21:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC).

Punctuation is site-wide - there is no difference in punctuation between UK/Irish English, American English etc. However (as a fan fiction writer) I can confirm that an awful lot of people use bad punctuation and justify it because they are from a different part of the English speaking world (this applies to UK English people as well as everyone else). Forms like "Goodbye", he said "I'm going". (comma/full stop outside speech marks) is always wrong unless I believe one is writing some kind of computer code, hence the editor's remarks about computer code.Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:12, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Hello, all, First, I apologize if I offended anyone. Also, I thought I was having a one-on-one discussion with someone who had initiated the discussion. Nevertheless, the running postings (whatever the proper term), which I believe are on some sort of discussion board concerning punctuation, were pretty "direct" & I thought my tone was more subdued than many of those comments. Nothing I said hasn't been said, in substance, before me and in much more pointed terms. I have also seen references to being "mercilessly edited," which also implies the appropriateness of a certain tone. Sorry if I misunderstood. Second, I gather from the heading that this is not the place to continue a substantive discussion, so I won't. Third, it was my understanding there was a difference between "policies" & "guidelines" (although if someone could direct me to a link defining those, it would be helpful) and, as has been oft-stated by others, the Misplaced Pages "guidelines" on punctuation (i.e., "logic" punctuation) are not grammatically correct except perhaps in computer code-writing. English isn't "logical" in spelling either but somehow we all endeavor (I hope) to spell correctly. Prior to being a college English professor I was a magazine editor. My Misplaced Pages edits have all been in good faith and in an attempt to improve the writing. (I have also had the temerity to correct grammar errors, e.g., on the use of "that" vs. "which.") I hope that is OK with all of you. Fourth, what is this place (site, or whatever the correct term)? Thanks. Regards, --Onesius (talk) 05:07, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

User:Saravanakumars adding unsourced opinions

I'm sure someone will tell me if there's a better place for this. User:Saravanakumars (and some IP editors) has been editing all the Tamil film director pages. All these pages have the format of a table with the year, the name of the film, and a column for comments. In the column comment he keeps adding "Hit", "Super Hit", "Flop" etc. are a few of about 20 examples. That these are opinions is shown here for example , where he's altering what one of the IPs has said. He's been warned by me and I've explained the problem .

However, he doesn't believe what I say "This is the format for cinema related articles. ... If you still not understand what I am doing, please wait for some time. ...you are the only man against me. How much do you know about tamil cinema ? I have worked in some films too. So please stop your undo in future." and has now started edit warring with myself and other editors who keep removing his edits - reversion of User:Cst17 revert by User:Ronhjones .

Could someone with a louder voice explain WP:V WP:RS to him.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• I have provided Saravanakumars with a third level stern warning. Should he return again with this type of original research, uncited edit please let me or a fellow administrator know. Best wishes Virtual Steve --VS 12:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Ta. I'll keep an eye on him.Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Pleasure - I will close this one off as resolved for now. Feel free to come directly to me if necessary.--VirtualSteve 12:18, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Shades of Anwar saadat (talk · contribs) YellowMonkey (cricket photo poll!) paid editing=POV 01:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Not seeing it myself. He was even-handed in categorising films from all directors from flop to blockbuster. It was only that it was clearly his own opinion that bothered me.Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Disruptive editing by Wdford at Ancient Egyptian race controversy

Many of you might be aware, recently there were several editors banned from the article Ancient Egyptian race controversy. One of these editors, Wdford, had his ban lifted today. Almost immediately, he started editing the article; As I looked at his edits roughly one hour ago, I objected to them; I was about to explain my objection with more detail on the article talk page, by Wdford has already reverted me and I fear that this is about to escalate into another edit war. It might turn out in the discussion that my objection is unjustified, but in any case, Wdford would have to allow the time for a discussion before he reverts again. Otherwise he is not trying to find a consensus, and I think it is justified to call that disruptive editing. Zara1709 (talk) 17:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Zara is right about one thing – her objection is unjustified. As I explained very clearly already, I have not changed the scope. I deleted unreferenced material, for which no consensus it required, and nothing I added is original research or fringe – it was all clearly substantiated. As the scope has stayed the same I have not been disruptive, and I don’t need to first obtain Zara’s permission. Zara’s blind reverts are an attempt to establish article ownership, which I believe is not appropriate. I am participating in discussions on this as we speak, but I see no justification to reinstate an article full of unsubstantiated OR while we seek Zara’s personal permission to go ahead and fix it. Wdford (talk) 17:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) For the record. You added a section on Ancient Egyptian Art, and I doubt that such a section is relevant for the article. We can discuss this, but you are not even attempting a discussion. My objection at this point certainly is justified. Zara1709 (talk) 17:41, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Zara along with other editors on the article talk page are currently trying to work out some sort direction for this article before proceeding with adding content(which is a wise idea),this is a very contentious and highly controversial subject ,i would suggest a full and indefinate article protect until consensus can be met and before full blown edit wars break out,the article is on probation--Wikiscribe (talk) 17:43, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Wdford made major changes, ie. bold edits. Zara reverted them. Now a discussion should take place. Wdford should not continue to revert but seek a consensus if he wants his changes to stand. And I should note that I undid a change by Wdford here whereby he changed his user name to Zara's in the section's title. That's not on. U-Mos (talk) 17:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I've full-protected the article for 48 hours as there was real edit-warring occurring. Please reach a consensus on the talk page - WP:BOLD does have its place, but needs to be used sparingly on such a controversial article. ~ mazca 17:46, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

What I've seen is Wdford adding material that does not relate so much to the history of the controversy, which is what the article was meant to be about and even at least some of the still-banned editors seemed to agree on that, but to the controversy itself. This is not promising. Dougweller (talk) 17:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, all the material I added is directly related to the controversy, and was substantiated. Most of it was expansions of existing sections, to which nobody has objected for months. The new headings I added are themselves relevant to the title of the article, and are mostly just brief references to existing wiki articles. And I don't consider that deleting unsubstantiated material that has been flagged for ages to be BOLD Edits at all. So what we have now is a huge amount of protected OR, and a demand to seek consensus before adding referenced and relevant material. Why the double standard - why was Zara not required to seek consensus from me before imposing her own POV of what the scope should be? Finally, the title of the article does not say anything about it being limited to the history of the controversy only, but Dougweller you are imposing an interpretation that has not been supported by consensus, and which has been recently objected to by a number of active editors. Again, why the double standard - surely the title of the article denotes the scope, and you should be required to seek consensus before limiting the scope in contradiction with the title? Wdford (talk) 18:04, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Regardless of anything else, the edits by Wdford were very large. Doing such large edits to an article with such a fraught history, without any prior talk page discussion, ought to be grounds for reimposing the article ban. If editors won't make any effort to work cooperatively, they must be kept away from articles like this. Looie496 (talk) 18:10, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Could you please at least review the edits in question before making accusations? Where in Wiki Policy does it say that the size of edits constitutes unco-operativeness? If any single edit I made today is inappropriate then please point it out specifically, but please don't threaten bans based on size of edits. And where does it require that consensus be achieved on the talk page first before deleting unsubstantiated material? Please could you be helpful here, rather than just threatening. Wdford (talk) 18:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

This is a content dispute. A couple of abusive actions reverted the whole article to its months old state and blocked editors who were working cooperatively and collegially on editing it. It's no surprise that restoring a consensus version after this massive disruption has been choppy. Until something is done about admins like William Connolley, we'll continue to experience this kind of disruption. In the meantime, the usual dispute resolution mechanisms should be used. There's no set limit on the size of an edit and Wdford's work shows every indication of being reasonable. Admin enforcement is not an appropriate venue to try to win a content dispute. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• First, this is a content dispute and thus not within the remit of ANI. Second, I have a great idea: delete the freaking article and invite all the SPAs who are DEFENDING THE TRUTH! to enjoy the wide Internet beyond Misplaced Pages. This stupid article has been the subject of approximately one AN/I post per week for ages, and it's beyond tiresome at this point. Alternatively, perhaps an admin with some balls could simply topicban everyone who has edited the article more than once in the last 90 days, instantly ban any brand new accounts that show up to it, and generally remove the utterly stupid editwarring that has been going on here since Tutankhamun was a small child. Let some neutral people work on it without the intense POV-pushing of the regulars. Then again, that would probably be far too logical a response. I mean seriously; the kids can't play well together, so take away their damn toys already. → ROUX ₪ 19:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Agreed - it's a hideous mess of unsourced statements, maintenance tags, original resource and synthesis. The Liancourt Rocks method of stubbing it to clearly sourceable statements may work, but I'd have to say that Misplaced Pages wouldn't be any worse off if it didn't exist. At the moment, it's just a time sink for editors who've got better things to do. Black Kite 20:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Black Kite, which is why I spent half a day deleting all the unsourced statements and original research. However Zara got upset because I ignored her right of veto, so she blanket-reinstated the whole hideous mess of unsourced statements and original research. It would help enormously if some admin who is actually themselves neutral could simply read the various contributions, and identify who is contributing constructively and who is breaking policy, and then administer the article correctly, instead of just protecting and blocking and banning. For some reason its always the most damaged version of the article that gets protected.

And just to help ROUX along, banning is not a logical response, its a lazy response, and it solves nothing. Children who suffer such abuse don't learn to "play nice"; they instead learn that parents can't be trusted, that the system isn't fair and that power is meant to be abused. Behind every aggrieved child who takes a machine gun to school, stands a lazy parent who thought the easiest way was to take away their damn toys already. Wdford (talk) 20:41, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, so people who continually abuse their editing privileges--note, for example, your topicban--and waste other peoples' time should... be allowed to continue abusing their editing privileges and wasting other peoples' time? I think not. So, two proposals. Draconian? Sure. Ends the disruptive bullshit once and for all? Absolutely, and necessary in a wide number of areas across Misplaced Pages. → ROUX ₪ 21:00, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) There seems to be some confusion amongst recently arrived editors to AErc about what the title of the article means. As Dougweller has already said, it is about the historically recorded debate about the "race" of the Ancient Egyptians and those who have taken part in it. It is not a forum for wikipedian editors to provide fresh material to debate. In addition, there are already plenty of articles on Ancient Egypt and egyptology: this is not one of them. Mathsci (talk) 23:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Firstly the title of the article suggests that the article is about the entire controversy, not just the history thereof. Allowing certain people to limit the content of the article to address only a small portion of the scope suggested by the title is thus confusing to readers - it certainly was inexplicable to me. If its necessary to limit the scope to just the history, then please would you change the title to "History of the ancient Egyptian race controversy", so that this discrepancy is cleared up, and we can edit the article accordingly. However as the title stands, the scope restriction is inappropriate as well as somewhat furtive. Thanks Wdford (talk) 09:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, assuming that the archaeological record of Egyptain artwork hasn't been included in the controversy over Egyptian origins (which seems far fetched to me) and assuming that the notable and sourced content discussing those issues doesn't belong in this article, where does it belong? If given an article outlet to cover this topic, it seems to me the problem would largely be resolved. But if the issue is not whether the art is related to the controversy and whether it's notable, but a question of some editors thinking that no matter how well sourced it is fringe nonsense that shouldn't be included on Misplaced Pages at all, then that's another issue and explains why there is such a gap between the disputants. Isn't it untenable, given the number of sources and the historical record of notable discussions various soruces addressing the art in relation to the society, to attempt to exclude it all together? Certainly one of the primary ways of understanding who the Egyptians were and where they came from is to look at their depictions of themselves, no? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

In principle the matter is fairly straightforward: find the secondary sources which discuss the debate and use them to write the article. If what you're mentioning has not been discussed, it can't be written about because it would be WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. Mathsci (talk) 01:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Unproductive section collapsed Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Moving my posts at talkpage

User Arab Cowboy have now several times moved my posts at talkpage although I have told him not to.

1.http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAsmahan&diff=304974112&oldid=304970678 Here I ask him not to: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAsmahan&diff=304974701&oldid=304974112

2.Again he does it: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAsmahan&diff=304975240&oldid=304974701 comment here was not added in the middle of conversation but at the bottom: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAsmahan&diff=304968550&oldid=304968218

3.Third time he changes position to my response to his claims to a section where my post does not belong: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAsmahan&diff=304978955&oldid=304978391

Please make him stop--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 01:04, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

You two need to stop battling each other at AN/I and elsewhere. Perhaps if you two left each other alone and edited different areas from the millions of different pages on Misplaced Pages, none of this nonsense would be continuing.--_{Sky Attacker} 01:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was going to say. How about both of you stay away from that article until September, hmm? And away from each other until, oh I don't know, the heat death of the Universe? → ROUX ₪ 01:53, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

He have also changed position of another guys quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAsmahan&diff=304989578&oldid=304985583 can someone just tell him to stop this? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 07:31, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Too much info from a 13 year old

What do we do when too much info is posted by a 13 year old? See redacted. Edison (talk) 01:52, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I would say to blank his user page and then explain to him on his talk page why posting personal information is a bad idea per WP:CHILD. --javert (stargaze) 01:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Doing that now. And contacting Oversight. → ROUX ₪ 01:56, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

It was originally created in the mainspace, but another editor subsequently moved it to Damian2dab's userspace. I think it could just be deleted. –Juliancolton |  02:02, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Julian, deletion is better than blanking. Couple that with roux's contacting oversight, and I believe that we're through here. --javert (stargaze) 02:04, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages:Requests for oversight HalfShadow 02:04, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

If something like this happens in future, could you please take it straight to oversight and not to such a public place like this?--_{Sky Attacker} 02:08, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

that is now the second time you ec'd me saying what I was going to say. Get out of my brain! → ROUX ₪ 02:10, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

As opposed to requesting oversight (which might take a while to get action, though quick enough in this case), an admin could speedy delete the page in question. Is that acceptable? Edison (talk) 03:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

There is a problem with oversight. When I contacted them once, for some reason the software sought to use my regular email, with my name attached, rather than the email account attached to my Misplaced Pages account. I have not used IRC, but I have also heard of posts to IRC revealing personal identity in the form of the identifying info in the email account. How does one force Misplaced Pages to use the anonymous email account associated with Misplaced Pages rather than the regular, identified email account? Edison (talk) 03:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages uses whatever email you have set in your preferences. It cannot magically switch from one to the other. However, what you probably did was click on the mailto link that creates a message in your usual client to be sent to oversight-l@lists.wikimedia.org. What you should do is use the Special:Emailuser/Oversight link. → ROUX ₪ 03:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I have for the last few weeks been patrolling new user pages, and I'd say deletion the best. I leave them a note using a template - (User:Backslash Forwardslash/Userpageedited) - which explains things well enough. \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 08:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

When I previewed my one message to oversight, it definitely had sought to ignore the email set in my Misplaced Pages preferences and use another which revealed my real world identity. That is why I hesitate to use the "contact oversight" function. Edison (talk) 03:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Again: no, if you are using the Special:Emailuser function it can and will only use the email located in your preferences. Period. You'll notice there are two links on the RFO page:

Request removal by email (for anyone).
(or simply compose an email to Oversight-llists.wikimedia.org )

The first one is a mailto: link. Clicking on this will open your default email program (or web-based email, if you have it setup to do so) and compose a message to oversight-l@lists.wikimedia.org using whatever email address you have set up in your email program.

The second link goes to Special:Emailuser, which will allow you to compose a message to the same place, using whatever email address you have setup in your Misplaced Pages preferences.

There is no way at all that Misplaced Pages can insert an email address that you do not have set up in your preferences when using the Special:Emailuser function. None whatsoever. It can only use the address it knows, and presuming you have set up your preferences to use the correct email address, there is no way it can know your other address. → ROUX ₪ 03:32, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Landless Farm

User:Landlessfarm got blocked because of a promotional username and because the user createdUser:Landlessfarm/Landless Farm. The user made another account called User:Drala486 and continued it by creating the article Landless farm. Joe Chill (talk) 03:35, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Bagged it and told it to make unblock requests at the original account's talk page. -Jeremy 21:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Pseudoscience advocacy

An administrator really needs to go in there and clean house. There are three users in particular who have set-up shop and are basically known pseudoscience promoters on Misplaced Pages. I will not name names, but behavior such as this is unacceptable. Wholesale removal of so many entries is simply edit warring plain and simple.

I have no objections to people discussing individual entries and whether they fit the inclusion criteria. But there is absolutely ZERO discussion of this removal on the talkpage. It was simply done unilaterally.

ScienceApologist (talk) 05:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Without accusations, I asked the most recent editor to remove 30K from the article to please use the talk page first, and reverted that content back in. I can't pretend that I fully understood each of the removed topics, but Lunar Effect, Polygraphs, and Iridology, three I read through, all were topics where I was either familiar with their status as pseudo-science (Lunar Effect, Iridology), or that they had significant citation thereof (Polygraphs are notoriously unreliable, thus not evidence in court, but the summary went further into it than I knew.) Though my review was cursory, the editor removing didn't even make use of explanatory edit summaries, so I feel he can make the effort properly at the Talk Page. ThuranX (talk) 05:48, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

It seems all over Misplaced Pages there are controversial edits being made without explanation every day. Not sure what to do. QuackGuru (talk) 05:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Just keep on fixing them. ThuranX (talk) 06:07, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The Consultant Pharmacist review is about twice as long as the other reviews in the article for no reason. I already discussed this on the talk page but I was ignored. QuackGuru (talk) 06:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I left that in because it shows a single critic talking about a flaw and it's problem. Someone who identifies a flaw usually will give short shrift to the fix, but that section, as he wrote it, seemed more balanced than the older version. ThuranX (talk) 06:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

(de-indent) I've mostly been ignoring that article because it gets too contentious, but my recent impression is that discussion has been fairly reasonable despite some moderate edit warring. User:ScienceApologist's only contribution to the talk page in the last few months was to announce this AN/I posting. Per WP:DR, some better initial venues for his concerns could include discussion on the article talk page, user talk pages, RS noticeboards, and so on. --Middle 8 (talk) 15:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

While I appreciate Middle 8's avoidance of the article, when a drastic edit such as the one I outlined above happens and I am bound by certain sanctions not to do anything about it, the only recourse is to appeal to outside help. Where one appeals to outside help is a matter of opinion, mostly. Administrative help is most appreciated since this list is subject to discretionary sanctions due to previous arbcom decisions. Past history of unhelpful discussions and indications on the talkpage of very combative editors indicated to me that the appropriate course of action was to ask for an administrator to help. I thank ThuranX for looking in to the matter. ScienceApologist (talk) 18:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Response

I am the editor who removed these sections. I clearly explained the reason for their removal on the talk page as follows: "Per request that insufficiently sourced entries remain on the talk page while sources are being found. Most of these have no source that terms them pseudoscience or the equivalent. If there is a source, it is inadequate or disputed." Additionally, I did not simply delete these entries but rather moved them onto the talk page for further work.

The standard of this article, clearly stated in the lead, is that it lists topics "characterized as pseudoscience by organizations within the international scientific community, by notable skeptical organizations, or by notable academics or researchers." When such characterizations are absent, the topics should not be included even if we are quite sure that they "are" pseudoscience; verifiability, not Truth, is in question. None of these sections - with one potential exception - remotely qualified; there was simply nothing whatsoever to show that they had been so characterized (even using a generous standard for equivalent characterizations). The only even slight exception had one citation to Popper; though I would normally consider this to be a good supporting citation, Popper had expressly been denied to be a sufficient reference for this purpose in a lengthy recent discussion of another topic. hgilbert (talk) 13:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

There is no request on the talk page at all for a blanket removal of "insufficiently sourced entries" nor is there any discussion of what entails an "insufficiently sourced entry". Moreover, on the talkpage you just indicated that a notable skeptical organization, Quackwatch, is not a good source when the inclusion criteria seen in the lead of the article expressly indicates that notable skeptical organizations are used as sources. Removal of, for example, time cube from the list is especially ironic given that arbcom itself identified it as an obvious pseudoscience. No one is objecting to your insistence that we get better sources. What people are taking issue with is your unilateral removal of entries without even the hint of a discussion. ScienceApologist (talk) 18:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

SA, I will respectfully suggest that taking a possible article conflict to a noticeboard is way premature. The issues you raise are content issues and, absent edit warring, using admin tools would be radically inappropriate. To my understanding, you are not banned from Talk pages, generally, you could have raised these issues there, and AGF would suggest that you expect to be able to resolve them there. Personally, I consider going to a noticeboard a step to be avoided in dispute resolution, absent emergencies, which content issues like this never are.

You have many possible steps to take, in any case, before coming here: article Talk page discussion, asking one of the active editors to look at the problem, which should certainly be done directly with an editor before complaining elsewhere about an editor's work!, asking a third party to mediate any disputes you can't resolve directly. Setting up a situation for "people" to disagree with an editor, based on your report here and no sustained experience with the article, I'd consider mildly disruptive at least, I wish that AN/I didn't function like that, but it does.

(AN/I should be 911 -- emergency services -- for admin action based on clear cause, which you didn't assert. Instead you asserted a content position, and I'd argue that by doing so in this way, you are violating the substance of your ban, which allows you to discuss and suggest on Talk, but not to push content, and soliciting response here, as you did, and as you argued above, is a form of content pushing with a possible result similar to meat puppetry. Don't worry, I'm not about to file an AE report! I believe you are a highly valuable contributor, but it's important you be very careful around pseudoscience or fringe science topics, you have a tendency to be a bit attached there.) --Abd (talk) 21:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Normally, Abd, I'd agree with you. But in this case we're looking at violations on an article that has a notorious history. Normally someone doesn't call 911 when an anonymous stranger knocks on their door. But there exist contexts where calling 911 because a stranger knocked on your door is perfectly reasonable (I'll leave you to imagine such scenarios). Similarly, we don't normally report a 25% blanking of an article to ANI, calling it a "content dispute". But when the article in question has been the subject of a half-dozen arbcom rulings, discretionary sanctions, three AfDs, a few topic bans, and at least two indefinite blocks, we call in the cops for even a minor disturbance. I also have my hands more-or-less tied at that particular article due to circumstances beyond my control. I'm not the one causing editorial disruption because I haven't edited the article. ScienceApologist (talk) 00:26, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Hgilbert's list on the talk page seems to be an indiscriminate copy-and-paste. I just looked at Einstein–Cartan–Evans theory which in the article has been described in an editorial by Gerardus 't Hooft, an editor-in-chief at Springer and Nobel laureate in physics, as fundamentally flawed. It's hard to find a more unambiguous or public labelling of a purported theory as pseudoscience. I am familiar with this article, a radical reworking of a deleted BLP. It shows that Hgilbert is making unjustified assertions and, by the sheer scale of his attempted deletes, is disrupting wikipedia. He has been reverted. Hopefully now he will take greater care in what he asserts and listen to others. WP:ANI was a reasonable place to post, since not all users have this article on their watchlist, even if they're familiar with or have contributed to the page. WP:FTN would have been an alternative place to post. Of course there are undoubtedly oddball editors on wikipedia prepared to denigrate 't Hooft and label this subject as an emerging science, a paradigm shift, etc, etc, ... Mathsci (talk) 21:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Drag-5

I'm doing this in a new section because the old one is just a back and forth between a handful of users and this needs more serious input that is not disrupted by the subject, necessarily. For the tl;dr crowd, skip down to the Cliffs notes.

Drag-5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is currently disrupting Misplaced Pages to make a point. He had previously move warred over the location of Kamen Rider Decade (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), moving it to an alternate title four times until the page was protected from being moved again. During that time, he made these incivil and disruptive comments . Following a discussion where it was shown he had no consensus, he began a requested move discussion on the talk page. This is resulting in him still having no consensus for his request.

Tonight is when the actual violation of WP:POINT began. He began a requested move discussion for the article Ninpuu Sentai Hurricaneger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) which in the past had been moved from Ninpuu Sentai Hurricanger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) when several articles were renamed to match official romanizations from the parent company. This is a violation of WP:POINT because "Hurricanger" was for the longest time the title used by the Latin alphabet-using online communities, so he is making a point by stating that one page has an official title as its name and the other one has one that he deems is not official because of the existence of an English translation (despite various users on the talk page bringing up evidence proving him wrong). He is also following his actions on a different website concerning the spelling of this particular item, but that does not necessarily have to be brought up in detail in this discussion unless anyone wants any specifics.

The Cliffs Notes

Drag-5 is violating WP:POINT by pointing out the disparities of the use of the more common romanized title (but not official English title) on one page and the official romanized title (but not the more common unofficial title) on another by requesting page moves. This coupled with his inability to work with other users constructively, civilly, and calmly ( ) should be more than enough for a block of some sort.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 05:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

ryulong seems to be constantly attacking me and removing my comments and using foul methods to block what is an innocent following of wikipedia procedures.

ryulong seems to show a personal bias towards me characterised by repeated references to thing that exist in my personal life. he does not concentrate on the articles and the discussion of editing rather he makes comments towards myself.

I am feeling a very strong harrassment by this user and this is proof of it.

I have requested the moves on illustrated pages for sound logical reasons according to wikipedia guidelines and have produced evidence to back up my cases. I have made no comments that remotely support any theory that i may be trying to prove some point. my actions are focused on making wikipedia a more full and complete information source as they should be.

I was quite bold with my original mmove of said page. this is according to wikipedia policy. we are meant to be bold. when ryulong reverted my edit i perhaps should have not reverted it straight away, I cannot change what i did at that time, but since those reverted edits i have acted according to wikipedia policies completely. ryulong, however, seems to continually attack me and use personal information to try and block my discussions and he even has removed some of my comments on hte discussion page without my permission. Drag-5 (talk) 05:56, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, this is getting way out of hand. He and I have been edit warring over the inclusion of the move request at Talk:Ninpuu Sentai Hurricaneger, because we both claim that we are violating different policies. He is accusing me of violating WP:TPNO and I still feel the request is a violation of WP:POINT. I would like something definitive to happen and I don't care if we both get blocked for edit warring.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

My impression is that the both of you have managed to make bogeymen out of each other and you are both taking it far too seriously. Also, in my experience, the common names rule usually trumps the official name. —harej (talk) (cool!) 07:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree, but google is confusing, as there are more results for the official name than there are for what he is claiming is the more common name. So it seems that the more common name is the one where the page is currently located.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I found the lead of CliffsNotes to be enlightening. --MZMcBride (talk) 07:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I know. I always thought they were "Cliff's Notes".—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Shazam! I had thought it was "CliffNotes" until just now. I expect they are called CliffNotes because that's a little easier to say than CliffsNotes. However, I never read Cliff(s)Notes in school. I tended to read the condensed versions, by John Moschita. Baseball Bugs carrots 08:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

In any case, the specific nature of the personal attacks from Drag-5 likely say a lot more about Drag-5 than they do about anyone else. "TMI!" :) Baseball Bugs carrots 08:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The disruption on his part (edit war aside) is obvious, though.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:15, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Ryulong reported for 3RR

Just to let everyone know, Ryulong's been reported for 3RR violation here. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 19:41, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

By a user who I'm a dispute with several hours after the edit war had ended after I compromised and allowed the move request to go on because Drag-5 was most certainly not going to give up.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:14, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 00:17, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

How to solve it?

I suggest an RfC over at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Tokusatsu that would include all the recent naming disputes in that set of articles. An admin could be asked to close the RfC, with the expectation that blocks or move protection could be used to see that the verdict is followed, whatever it may be. After this RfC there could be a moratorium on new move proposals for any of the Tokusatsu articles for a period of time. I urge both parties to stop move warring, Ryulong to stop edit warring and Drag-5 to lay off the personal attacks. EdJohnston (talk) 00:52, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree. this would be the best course of action. I laid off the personal attacks almost immediately so i can assure you that is no longer an issue. I would be very happy for an admin to see over this. also I would be very happy to get some unbiased editors who know wikipedia policies and guidelines well.Drag-5 (talk) 01:07, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

There is already a consensus on both talk pages that the articles are fine as to where they are. There do not need to be any moves of any articles anywhere, mostly because any subsequent requests by Drag-5 would indeed be intentions to make a point, although not necessarily disruptive. There is already no consensus to set a precedent and rename everything in Category:Kamen Rider, which was Drag-5's initial intentions. The subsequent request at Talk:Hurricaneger was a reaction due to the results of one requested move and a mutual knowledge of his activities on another website (which I reference here).—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 01:44, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

there is no consensus on either page yet. consensus at the most basic level is an agreement. ther eis still no agreement oon either of these pages.Misplaced Pages:ConsensusDrag-5 (talk) 02:04, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

There is a supermajority/consensus not to move at Talk:Kamen Rider Decade. A consensus for what you don't want is still a consensus.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 02:11, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I also agree that a RfC would be good. Powergate92Talk 02:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like Ryulong, Drag-5 and Powergate92 would have to agree to ask an uninvolved administrator to study all these discussions and see if there is consensus on the article names. (You'd all be prepared to accept the answer, whatever it was). If the admin thinks there was not enough discussion to resolve this, a further RfC or further move discussions would need to be set up. If so you'd all agree to support that. EdJohnston (talk) 02:27, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Powergate92 is really an uninvolved party who just gets himself involved in everything. I brought the discussion here because I was waiting for someone to do something regarding Drag-5's WP:POINT violations, as I saw them. There is currently a supermajority against the move on one page, and I feel that the move on the other page is the WP:POINT issue as I state higher up at The Cliffs Notes (also there's very little input from other individuals on the second request).—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 02:45, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

You do not appear to have read Misplaced Pages:Consensus as it states quite clearly, concensus is not in numbers. EdJohnston, I support an admin checking over the discussions. Drag-5 (talk) 02:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

The consensus is against you. And if an uninvolved administrator has to look at the discussions, that is what their placments at WP:RM should be for.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 02:53, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I also support an admin checking over the discussions. Powergate92Talk 03:01, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Persistant Incivility

Could you please warn Poeticbent about his disruptive and uncivil behavior in the article Massacres of Poles in Volhynia ? I have a detailed example with all the relevent diffs and links of him falsifying information here: . When he got caught changing the info, he then decided to move it to the back of the article. The discussion with full context is here: and abusive messages here: and here . This guy had been blocked before when writing on a similar topic: . Ironically his user pages states he follows a 1RR policy, which is obviously false. I'm pulling back from further reverts with this guy for awhile. I'm not looking for a block, just a warning so that he settles down a bit. Thanks!Faustian (talk) 06:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

It should be pointed out that Poeticbent has already been found to use wikipedia as a battleground. He is supposed to have a mentor to assist him in understanding and following policy and community practice, but that is obviously not working. Ostap 16:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Rmcnew and Socionics

• Rmcnew (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User:Rmcnew has been, over the course of the last month or two, making extensive edits to the page on socionics, continually including a section suggesting that socionics has an esoteric foundation and verifiable relations to chakras, hindu mysticism, alchemy, and other things. a couple of people have written papers hypothesizing about such connections, which would be appropriate for inclusion. yet rmcnew continues to insist unequivocally that the socionics page must include a section claiming verifiable ties, and the role of esotericism in forming the foundation for the theory. this page has been going on for months, was recently the subject of an ](mostly precipitated by mcnew's insistent action) which concluded that the page needed restructuring and improvement in accordance with the existing verifiable sources on the topic. rmcnew's presence is effectively blocking this rewrite, and he has continually provided the same unreliable sources to back up his claim, which everyone involved in the discussion (about 3-4 people) except him would agree is essentially hopeless. good faith efforts to talk about the sources presented and identify those which need to be changed have produced some good discussion and have helped to identify other parts of the article that need to be cleaned up (but can't, because of the ongoing dispute), but mostly more of the same, including a lot of name calling (mostly from rmcnew).

i've had no idea what to do about this situation, and have continued to debunk his claims while essentially having given up any hope of ever resolving the situation. i think immediate admin intervention is warranted. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens (talk) 08:39, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

User:Rmcnew is, in my mind, a vandal, period. Bearian (talk) 23:31, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit warring is against policy. Rmcnew is under the same obligation as anyone else to find consensus to support the changes he wants to make to the article. There may come a time that an administrator could warn him against reverting to a version of the article that does not have consensus. However I don't see any diffs in the above report, and the claim so far is that rmcnew's presence is effectively blocking this rewrite, which is a rather vague statement. At present, this is not definite enough to take any action on, in my opinion. EdJohnston (talk) 02:14, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

History of terrorism

I stumbled across this article whilst patrolling changes and reverted an unexplained removal of about 10kB of content, that did not appear to be agreed on the talkpage. I was subsequently reverted, and the user LSG280709 basically told me not to get involved in things I didn't know about. (To be fair, I've never read the article before so a lot of stuff has probably gone on that I do not know about).

Looking into it a bit more there has been an ongoing battle at this page for a long time, that has escalated over the last month with repeated removal of content and then reversions. It has not been helped by fractious edit summaries, claims of consensus when there doesn't appear to be any and so on. Of the last 100 edits, about half of them are reverting.

I wasn't sure whether to bring this to the edit warring page, or RFPP, but the dispute seems to have been going on for a long time and there are lots of conduct as well as content issues to look at. As well as the user mentioned above, the other parties I can tell are: User:Haberstr, User:Sherzo, User:Impala2009 and 92.239.38.135 (who was recently blocked for a week). Quantpole (talk) 08:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

User:LSG280709 is a new user who has jumped straight into edit warring on that article and has removed several warnings from his talk page. My apologies, this was not true Theresa Knott | token threats 09:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I've blocked LSG280709 for 24 hours for recent egregious edit-warring to remove sourced content (well, some of it is sourced). I've also applied full-protection for a week, which can be extended as necessary. The article needs a fair amount of work and it's nature means it'll inevitably be something of a battleground, so although a few more blocks could probably be handed out they'd be after the fact and would prevent any talk-page discussion that might improve things. I'll keep it watchlisted anyhow, and more eyes would no doubt be useful ;) EyeSerene 10:46, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

First I feel you have locked the wrong version of the page, the page is overlong and the definition section was removed a long time ago as the definition of terrorism article handles this complex issue well without the history of terrorism article trying to replicate it. If you look through the changes Haberstr actually deletes content that disagrees with his POV and reintroduces previously condensed material despite previous consensus . If you read the vast about of topics started by Haberstr to push his particularly perspective i think this will become self evident to as it did to the other editors on the board. Sherzo (talk) 16:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

You might like to read m:The wrong version Note, not in any way a comment on your polite request!  ;) The reason I reverted to that version was that it seemed to be the status quo version (as far as it was possible to tell), and LSG280709 had removed a fair amount of sourced material - essentially, I didn't feel their blatant edit-warring deserved a pay-off. However, if you can show a current consensus on the article talk-page that another version is better, I (or any admin) will happily change it around for you. As an admin I can't really start judging content, but if you believe Haberstr's editing needs examining, a request for comment might be a good way to get some outside eyes on things. EyeSerene 16:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Pixelface

I have been the subject of an extreme personal attack from Pixelface which I do not think should be allowed to stand. This sort of thing bothers me, because it is not about a personal issue at all, but about Misplaced Pages policy rather than a contraversial subject matter such as politics or religion. I have politely asked Pixelface to edit out the ad hominen attacks out of his post, but received further abuse from him on his talk page. I feel I must take a stand on this issue, as a I know other editors have been subject to similar abuse.

I am proposing that Pixelface is blocked until such time as he undertakes to desist from ad hominen attacks on other editors. Although we have our disagreements about policy, I value his strong views. The personal attacks in our disucssions are little more than flamming, which should be stamped out with swift administrator intervention. I have ignored previous attacks, and stuck my neck out for Pixelface in the past, but this last attack oversteps the mark. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 09:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I see strong language but I see nothing along the lines of a personal attack.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 09:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) It's strong, but I can't see a personal attack - the diff seems to be a firm judgement on your views on the subject, but it's on your views, not on you. The pair of you would do best in disengaging from each other for a few days. ➲ REDVERS 09:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) There's something about "anyone with any intelligence whatsoever", which is a bit condescending but I've seen a lot worse. What I'd like to hear, in one sentence, is what this issue is about. Don't give us a megillah, give us a one sentence summary. A "Cliff(s)Notes version", as it were. Baseball Bugs carrots 09:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

If this is not as serious as I thought, then then there is nothing else I can do, and nothing more to be said. Complaint withdrawn. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 16:09, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

You did not answer the questions. Baseball Bugs carrots 18:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Sheesh...Wall of text. Hoo...Lemme just...sit for a bit...HalfShadow 18:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

User:Bahopwet.

Creating hoax articles by copying other articles without attribution, and changing names to harass. See The Blossoming of Warren Pineda, Ang Lihim ni Vicente Gacola, Niño Libre, and commons:File:Vicentegacola.jpg.

Probably sock of User:Lyle123. Please block and prevent account creation. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-30t09:53z

Anyone know why an account created on 2009-07-29t06:37:38z was allowed to start creating new articles 21 minutes later? Isn't there a 4 day waiting period? -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-30t10:00z

No, there isn't. Autoconfirmation only applies to moves and so forth. Accounts can create pages immediately. ➲ REDVERS 10:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Blocked. Theresa Knott | token threats 10:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

User:Alansohn

Montefiore Windmill

User:Gilabrand has repeatedly removed the name of Jaffa Gate Mill from the article. Even after I provided a specific reference for the name as requested. I'm not wishing to get into an edit war, but the alternative name should be in the lead per WP:LS and also in the infobox where there is a space provided for alternative names (see Gibbet Mill, Rye for an example of a mill with a number of names).

Can an admin look this over and restore some normality to the article please? Mjroots (talk) (forgot to sign originally :-/ )

User:No More Mr Nice Guy has also removed this sourced info. Does this article fall within the remit of Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles? Both these editors are mentioned in that case. Mjroots (talk) 17:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I've added the article to WP:IPCOLL/Current Article Issues. PhilKnight (talk) 18:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I feel harrassed by user Makrand Joshi, kindly help

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Dear Administrators, I am not a person who posts regularly. Yet when I try and edit a page http://en.wikipedia.org/Iipm, then a user called Makrand Joshi (http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Makrandjoshi) reported me for being a sock puppet after just one editing of the Iipm page. The report was found to be false (for the moment). After that when I wrote on the discussion page (http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:The_Indian_Institute_of_Planning_and_Management#Blog_and_JAM), user Makrand Joshi tried to accuse me again of being a sock puppet.

I need help in handling user Makrand Joshi who is not using the right words with me. Please guide me on how to proceed and help me. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wifione (talk • contribs) 12:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Forgot to sign Wifione (talk) 12:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Dealt with at WQA (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 13:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Abuse of AfD system by User:Bettia

Can some please have a look at the actions of the above editor. "He" has recently closed two AfD's for a footballer without good reason. --Vintagekits (talk) 13:56, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Your incivilities and frivolous nominations do not help the situation. Jeni 13:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

These "frivolous nominations" where what exactly? All my nominations were policy biased. --Vintagekits (talk) 14:41, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

And all of Bettia's closures were policy based, as he has explained. GiantSnowman 15:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. WP:DRV is where to go if you feel strongly that these articles should be deleted. I see you making frivolous nominations, though. Tan | 39 13:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Note I have blocked Vintagekits for 3RR violations. I have told him that if he promises to not continue inappropriate reversions that I will unblock. This is unrelated to the appropriateness of the AfD nomination and is purely a 3RR block. Chillum 14:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
• Another note I have unblocked Vintagekits based on a promise that he will not act disruptively in this matter. If he fails to keep this promise I have no objection to any admin reinstating the block. Chillum 14:10, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

As I explained to Vintagekits, I closed that AfD as a Speedy Keep under clause 2.1 - "obviously frivolous or vexatious nominations (such as recently featured articles)". As the article had recently passed its Good Article nomination, I felt it qualified. As for me supposedly being 'non-neutral', I presume this stems from a totally unrelated difference of opinions which he has been having with myself and others (with him being quite uncivil at times, which one uninvolved editor commented on at his user talkpage). Bottom line is closing two bad AfD nominations then protecting them for 6 hours to prevent disruption is not what I would call an abuse of the system. Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 14:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Comment, actually you didnt explain it to me - I had to post twice on your talk page before you would even acknowledge me.

• "obviously frivolous or vexatious nominations" - what a load of BS - the guy has never played a game of professional football in all his days and I outlined that in the nomination. It is certainly note a "featured article" - I written one almost singlehandedly (cough*shine halo*cough) - it had just passed a scathing GA review and there was no mention of notability.
• Your are a non neutral admin and should have closed it because you are biased. I would have thought that you would have remembered that biased admins from the FOOTY Project should stay the frick away from closing AfD's when they have been invovled disputes in that area. Or have you forgotten Davey O'Connor's review when another biased FOOTY Project member wrongly closed an AfD. Sure should remember it because you endorsed the deletion - thankfully the community stepped in to overturn it.
• I am not here to cause trouble for but God sake give me a level and fair playing field to play on.--Vintagekits (talk) 14:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

That's enough of that. USer has been repeatedly warned about this; I'm blocking. Tan | 39 14:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

That seems a bit odd to me, even with Vintagekits' background. The originally nomination does not appear frivolous to me at all. Looking at a bit of the history, Bettia certainly shouldn't have been the one to do the closing either. Quantpole (talk) 15:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Bettia's point is correct, even if I don't particularly agree with having articles about footballers who fail to meet WP:ATHLETE. However, if someone does not agree with the closure, he/she should use WP:DRV instead of opening up more and more duplicate AfD cases. --Angelo (talk) 15:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Please let's not somehow manage to deflect this onto the admin again (I'd be beyond surprised if there were admins with whom VK doesn't have previous at this point). Vintagekits has been repeatedly requesting deletion of the bios of footballers in the lower English leagues recently due to disagreeing with the same happening to Irish players. Over and over again they've been dismissed due to the strong existing consensus over the threshold that's been established for footballer notability here and elsewhere. There is not a chance that the AfD being discussed here would have resulted in a delete, so who closed it is unimportant. Right now, a block is preventing even more editors' time being wasted as VK attempts to singlehandedly overturn a consensus which he's repeatedly blamed on "the FOOTY cabal", along with the usual levels of invective. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Regardless of the GA criteria, I don't see how this player passes WP:ATHLETE, or for that matter WP:N either, because all the references are either statistical, match reports, or very local news sources. There have been some WP:POINT nominations of minor footballers recently, and I speedy closed one myself, but this should've been left open. Black Kite 15:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I have declined VK's block. Please be aware that they can't defend themself when they are blocked so be careful what you say. I am totally uninvolved with this, but VK does have civility issues at the moment. Hopefully, they will calm down sufficiently to have the block reduced so they can participate in this discussion. – B.hotep •talk• 15:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The main issue was that this was the wrong venue and the wrong way to go about it (claiming abuse, civility issues, 3RR violations, repeated postings despite warnings). While I commented above that I thought the AfD itself was frivolous (I do), this did not factor into the block. Tan | 39 15:41, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the block, and I've told them as much. Definitely the wrong venue here. Trouble is, it may end up being on his talk page now... :( – B.hotep •talk• 15:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't agree that this was worth a block, especially of 72 hours. I've been tempted to block VK recently for some far worse comments he's made, especially in AfDs, but this was just frustration (even though yes, it was probably the wrong venue). Black Kite 16:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

His continued abuse on his talk page would say otherwise. I was pushing for a reduction, now I would say protect his talk page. – B.hotep •talk• 16:04, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I did just suggest protecting his talk page on said talk page, however that has now been blanked. Jeni 16:10, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I had removed his talkpage access for his block before I saw that. --Smashville 16:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• This would appear to be based on the assumption that any article that passes GA must have a notable subject. It would be nice if this were true, but to assert that it must be true, or is grounds for blocking, is facile optimism. VintageKits will not be improved by blocking him when he is right. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

He was not blocked for his views on this AfD. Whether or not he was right was irrelevant. He was blocked for being disruptive. As I stated in multiple areas, including above, he was blocked for persistently taking this to the wrong venue, making bad faith accusations, edit warring (including 3RR violations), and being incivil. Tan | 39 16:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I decided to go back and look at the timeline here...and I believe we've erred. However, what did he do between the unblock and the re-block that was disruptive? The original blocking admin unblocks at 14:08...5 minutes after telling him to go to ANI. His only contributions at ANI after his block were both in response to statements directed at him. I can't see what is blockable here and he is merely defending himself here. It's hardly disruptive. --Smashville 18:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I think Tan blocked him for this - yes, he's swearing, but he's not actively telling anyone to fuck off, it's just frustration. Given VK's latest unblock request, I would be tempted to accept it. I would prefer Tan's input, but he hasn't edited for a few hours. Thoughts? Black Kite 19:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

If Tan blocked him for that, then it should be removed immediately, as Chillum had already blocked him for it and then unblocked after discussion. Anything done prior to the unblock at 14:09 should not be taken into account here. We don't punish the same crime twice. --Smashville 19:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

You are correct (I forgot that I am on BST, which is 1 hour away from UTC), and I will unblock. Black Kite 19:41, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Reasoning above seems sound.--Tznkai (talk) 19:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Why is Vintagekits still around? This is his eleventybillionth block. HalfShadow 19:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Because he's a productive editor that occasionally loses his temper. Actually, if you look at the block log since he came back from his indef, it's only a few blocks in over a year - the length of the log is because of lots of tweaking of the blocks. Black Kite 19:50, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but WP:CIVIL is policy, and should be respected anyway, regardless of his contributions. As far as I can see from his block history, he still can't realize and fully accept our policies, so I wouldn't really agree about unblocking him but, instead, I would actually suggest to begin considering different solutions, tougher if necessary. Users who only manage to disrupt Misplaced Pages only because of their own points should not be allowed to repeat their mistakes forever and ever. --Angelo (talk) 20:46, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• And admin that abuse their powers to "win" arguments should be stripped of their privilages.--Vintagekits (talk) 21:05, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• If you're talking to me, just be aware that I've always respected Misplaced Pages policy, and all of my admin actions involve only semi-protection of heavily vandalized articles, deletion of recreated material and blatant copyright violations and a very few blocks against vandal-only accounts, not before notifying them with multiple warnings. And anyway you're not in the right position to judge my actions, given your account history and your approach with other users, including (and especially) admin users. In case you don't know, Misplaced Pages is a collaborative effort, and I see no interest in collaborating and building consensus from your recent edits. --Angelo (talk) 21:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

• Endorse unblock. Spartaz 19:48, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

For the record, it would have been nice if I was consulted prior to this, and this unblock was extremely poor form and completely against consensus (unblock declined twice before). Black Kite, how many fucking times do I have to fucking state that he wasn't blocked for swearing - but for disrupting after being warned not to? This was not the venue for this, DRV is, and he was told to take it there. Instead, he came flying back into ANI screaming about BS (short for "bullshit", as we all know). Plain and simple, the disruption continued after he was told not to. I couldn't give a fuck less if he was swearing or not - so stop making strawman arguments about why I blocked him. Tan | 39 21:39, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Considering the original blocking admin told him that ANI was a good place to go before unblocking him...and all he did after his unblock was respond to people who were responding to him...how was that disruptive? You can't tell someone not to come to ANI just because you don't like the topic they brought. --Smashville 21:46, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Apologies, Tan, but I can understand why he was frustrated by a ridiculous bit of Wikilawyering over the AfD. I have come close to blocking VK recently for an outbreak of incivility on AfDs, and will be keeping a very sharp eye on his conduct from now on, but I - and others - couldn't see how the block could stand; if he'd come straight back onto ANI and started NPAing everywhere then fair enough, but he was stating - in not the best terms, admittedly - his irritation with how he believed the AfD process was being circumvented, and I have to say I agree with him on that one. Black Kite 23:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The problem with this type of unblock is that it is often interpreted by the blocked person as a tacit endorsement of their behaviour. Chillum 22:28, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

COI: Spam from WAgency234

WAgency234 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) created spam at The Wannamaker Agency and also on userpage. Both ads have since been CSD'd. I reported the user initially to UAA and, as a result of review there, moved the report to COIN. COIN instructed me to "request an admin look into the account." I am here to make that request. Tckma (talk) 14:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The article and the user page created by this account have both been speedy deleted. They have no other contributions. I suggest you leave them a {{uw-coi}} notice on their Talk. If nothing more happens in the next couple of days, the report could be closed. EdJohnston (talk) 15:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Sambokim (talk · contribs) COI, repeated copyvios, etc

Okay, I did some work on an article to attempt to bring it up to GA status awhile ago and it was an uphill battle against one user. The user in question works for the subject of the article and is involved in various aspects of the operation including english PR. He pretty much copy and pastes Press releases into the article and has a set of links he likes to push into the EL list that all promote the team (though most of them are currently being used as references). I've exchanged chat with him on various talk pages an email or two as well, and on his talk page. He's been warned multiple times not to copy and past Press releases into the articles but now that they're gearing up for the hockey season again, off we are. Back in January I had to remove the PR text multiple times trying to clean up the article because he would just put it back in over and over. Affected articles are: Anyang Halla and Asia League Ice Hockey. He makes lots of good contributions, but he has an obvious COI and can't control himself with the press releases and promotion. I was away for a bit and just got back to find out I yet again had to clean the copyvio and link spam out of the article , . You can see the previous warnings on his talk.--Crossmr (talk) 14:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

and of course thisSamuel_H._Kim. I'm sure he's notable enough for an article, but he can't even resist turning that into a promotion.--Crossmr (talk) 14:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Section Restored

I restored that section - it is vadalism to delte it . You are welcome as Administrator to state your judgement.

Review requested of administrative actions

I've recently become involved as an admin in a couple of disputes on Aircraft of the Battle of Britain and Battle of Britain. These have involved most of the regular editors there, but the flies in the ointment appear to be Hiens (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Kurfürst (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), both of whom have been conducting campaigns for edits that do not appear to be supported by consensus. These content issues have been discussed, some at great length (see Talk:Aircraft of the Battle of Britain and associated archive), to the point where in my judgement further contention is becoming disruptive.

As a result, when a complaint was made on my talkpage that Kurfürst was unilaterally changing content on Aircraft of the Battle of Britain while it was under discussion I blocked him for two weeks (following warnings from myself and other admins that further disruption would lead to sanctions). The relevant talk-page thread is here. Because I previously intervened to unblock another editor that had become frustrated with Kurfürst to the point of edit-warring, Kurfürst is now convinced that I'm supporting one version of content over another and giving a free ride to certain editors. The dispute revolves around the extent to which the RAF used a type of aircraft fuel; the only possible explanation for my actions is that, being British, I feel so strongly about 100 octane that I'm prepared to abuse the admin tools.

Hiens I have only warned to date about flogging dead horses, because he resurrected an apparently settled content dispute on Talk:Battle of Britain. However, he too seems to have reached the conclusion that I'm abusing the admin tools and preferring one set of editors (and one version of content) over another. On a procedural note, I have not edited either article or commented on the content itself.

In my view the regular editors on those articles have been dealing for some time now with some extremely persistent, stubborn, and opinionated users. There has been a detrimental effect on both the articles and other editors who've chosen to work there, to the point where some good editors have begun to react badly and others have dropped off the radar. I believe our established article-writers are our most valuable resource and must be protected, but dealing with these type of situations is never straightforward... so finally I come to the point of this long post :) I'm requesting an independent review of my actions, and if possible another set or two of eyes on the above articles and editors. Thanks! EyeSerene 09:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
"Stop it EyeSerene , it won't do you any good Stop falsely accusing others of things you guilty of yourself All sorts of historians give all sorts of figures. Murray uses secondary sources You are a liar and you know it ; I have no issue no case I am done with you EyeSerene The community should deal with you now ; your defense is completely distorted and piece of crap up ala I can understand you're upset about losing the argument, but you are just going to have to be grown up about it and accept it "

Hey sorry Gentlemen I got carried away ! this is a true example and the exact phrases of User Dapi89 and his colleague EnigmaMcmxc , and he always find some other one colleagues to praise him – like User Jacurek - and say thank you Dapi89 I understand your frustration ! Simply it is amazing and pitifully this time the Wiki Admin justify this level of discussion by saying
" There has been a detrimental effect on both the articles and other editors who've chosen to work there, to the point where some good editors have begun to react badly and others have dropped off the radar " really …..
You are making a political maneuverability to free them ; people can disagree and moderator can interfere to ask them to get back to the subject or place his knowledge on a source or analysis .. But not this way Mr. EyeSerene where u deleted part of the discussion which have absolutely no bad words no insult , no attacking on other , no personnel attack ….

But you said  - the majority against it     probably ratio of  5:3.

And it is “ extremely persistent, stubborn, and opinionated users. “ oh really ..

If another administrator frees you from the charges of concealing your identity and protecting, the cursing and personnel insult, then I am sure you will not be quited from one charge!
Simply the lack of knowledge skill and been incompetent to mastering a hot discussion Didn't ever came to your knowledge that - The results of Battle of Britain - Dowding quoted about one phrase from the Official documentation as a myth and it would be dangerous for the futre ... The outcome of the battle is a long controversial subject and the debate still going on till these days .. It is not a problem for users to trade POV and sources and also not a problem for Administrator to interfere and ask users to calm down, press them to provide sources or criticize the validity of some sources or analysis .... etc Something you didn't do it!!!! you simply remained in silence and only interfered to attack or punish !

There were long discussions with Dapi98 before on discussion page for Battle of Britain
it was simply deleted and some good Administrator answered Dapi89 - when he said all historian agreed this understanding and the Administrator in nice way tried to stop him ( by saying have you cited R.Overy or "I forgot his name"....) ; I wish you can restore this deleted discussion which demonstrate Dapi89 calling R. Ovary contradicted while now he is using his book as a source!
Please restore this discussion and see the Administrator ... he was totally different from you and I wish you will follow his style where as he said about the BoB  ; it is a national Myth and I wouldn’t touch that hot subject, he was fair and straight in his comments. I wonder why this discussion was maliciously deleted

--Hiens (talk) 11:53, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Resolved – For now. No doubt we'll see them again. Black Kite 00:20, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Resolved – lifebaka blocked the lot of 'em for edit warring.

Resolved – blocked 31 hours by Blueboy96

Resolved – User, originally blocked 12h, is now indef-blocked with talk page fully protected. MuZemike 00:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

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