Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:48, 14 December 2005

Archive: 1

Race and intelligence

Please stop adding {{totallydisputed}} to this article. If there is a dispute among editors, someone else should add it. I don't want to ban you from editing this article but I don't want to have a revert war over this, either. --Ryan Delaney 22:55, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

The relevant provision in your probation is where it says that you may be banned if in the opinion of any administrator your editing is disruptive. I am an administrator and I say your editing is disruptive. --Ryan Delaney 23:15, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

You are banned from editing Race and intelligence for two weeks. Do not edit the article during this time or I will have to block you. I would suggest you not edit the talk page either but that's up to you. I think you need some time off to cool your heels. --Ryan Delaney 00:43, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory

You have violated the 3RR on Conspiracy theory. Please undo your last edit. Please don't disrupt Misplaced Pages. -Willmcw 02:03, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Calling those with whom you are editing "vandals" while insisting on your own good faith doesn't wash. -Willmcw 02:20, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Karmafist 05:03, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi; I urge you to stop characterizing those of us who disagree with you as duplicitous and POV bots; That whole coordinated-gang-of-POV-pushers motif just antagonizes people. Please refrain from personal attacks on the talk page, and especially in the edit summaries.

I have not always lived up to my own aspirations in that regard, so I understand it's difficult not to take the opportunity to get in a snarky shot. We all feel strongly about this, and we all want to produce a good page. Some tension is inevitable.

Further, I want to take this chance to tell you that I regret my remarks to you from 25 October, when you might have understood me to suggest you were "sophomoric and inane." I did not intend to apply that to you or your writing, but to the result of what I saw as an out-of-control process. I expressed myself badly, and I am sorry to have made what a reasonable man could take as a personal attack.

I have invited you before to join me in limiting yourself to one edit per day. I renew that invitation now. If that seems too restrictive, how about one edit to the introduction per day? Tom Harrison 17:50, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

"The way 'conspiracy theory' discredits is it implies dubiousness through implied association (or through literal language recursive definition confusion) with the highly dubious 'conspiracy theory' narrative genre." This needs to be included and expanded upon in the article. --Peter McConaughey 03:35, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Peter here. What's the use in limiting Zen_m's edits Tom, you got an agenda to push, and it's obvious so a soon as zen m tires with this issue you gonna re-edit this one, and all well and back to normal, right?

Note for future clarity, improvement from Conspiracy theory:

The phrase is ambiguous and pejorative when someone uses it, often subtly, to label and thereby dismissively categorize an actual theory or conjecture that coincidentally alleges a conspiracy as an example of "conspiracy theory" fiction. It may be considered improper to classify a theory or competing viewpoint as fiction as that may discourage a scientific and factual analysis.

I dispute Jayjg's block for "personal attacks"

For the record I dispute Jayjg's block of me for "personal attacks" (and he has yet to notify me on my talk page). Given the history of the Conspiracy theory article it is perfectly reasonable to interpret that a bot-like highly coordinated cabal of editors do everything in their power to defend or implement a certain POV. Why do Jayjg and his POV aligned friends always seem to show up to the same article at the same time? Why do Jayjg and his friends have exactly the same POV? They never seem to debate the core issues of any controversy on the talk page. zen master T 19:54, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Still waiting for Jayjg or someone to explain their actions. Also, why does a coordinated group of editors try so relentlessly to implement the same (subtle propaganda?) POV on specific, politically sensitive, articles within[REDACTED] without ever debating in good faith on the talk page? zen master T 22:22, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

It's amazing a group of suspiciously coordinated admins can gang up on a minority view point without any repurcussions here on wikipedia. I am still waiting for various explanations. zen master T 04:43, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I invite the coordinated pro "conspiracy theory" editors to responded to my most recent talk page posts even though I am currently blocked from editing, hopefully a lively debate will spring up and the issues will resolve themselves with fresh editors (unlikely but one can dream). Oh wait, the coordinated editors don't actually care to debate the core of most any issue, and they may be propagandists or otherwise play games, oh I forgot, sorry, never mind. zen master T 05:38, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a debating society. Our only purpose is to write encyclopedia articles that summarize verifiable information in an NPOV manner. However, for what it's worth, this topic has already been debated at length. Insisting on continuous debate is disruptive. -Willmcw 00:01, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Just heard from Jayjg

I'll continue talking to him, and I think there's some promise in smoothing any miscommunications out, but in order to do so, I think you're probably going to have to do the following things...

1. Extend an olive branch to Jayjg or anyone else you have a dispute with: You don't need to apologize or what have you, but saying "Even though we might disagree, I'll still respect you if you respect me" will go a long way.
2. Don't try to be a robot: This is just my opinion, but I think 100% NPOV is impossible, even on Misplaced Pages, unless you basically are not a human being. Humans have desires and fears and all sorts of things that tint our perspectives on subjects. I try to aim for the 90-99% NPOV range, and don't always get there IMO, but the goal itself is a noble enough endeavor and is the heart of WP:NPOV. Then again, if you are actually a robot, I apologize for what I just said and I'll suggest you stay away from any magnets or electromagnetic pulses.
3. Try to steer clear of any subject that might be discussed on the X-Files or a Sunday morning talk show: You don't have to if you don't want to, but from looking at this and the rfar, that seems to be where you're having the bulk of your problems. I disagree with all the baloney about Cabals and such, because a true Wikipedian must try to work with, respect and seek the opinions of other Wikipedians, in both the positive and negative. Next time you're in a case like you were at with conspiracy theory, ask others on the outside for advice and comments on what they think, and if a tag or an edit is put back and forth, instead of continuing with it, ask the person who disagrees with you why they do and try to figure out some middle ground -- the English Language is wonderful at doing this.
4. Follow one of the most important rules i've found regarding others on Misplaced Pages: There are three types of people out there -- the ones that disagree with you, the ones that agree with you, and the ones that are indifferent to your opinion(the third being the vast majority). If you're nice to people, both directly and reputation-wise, those indifferent people are more likely to say "yeah sure, what you're saying sounds fine to me." karmafist 13:51, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Ok...

Do what you like, but that's my two cents in being able to fix things. From what it looks like though, this path you're on seems like it will breed more conflict. I'd also suggest looking at this page and then, you're on your own unless you ask for any more advice. I've learned my lesson and i'm not going to try to help out someone that doesn't seem to want to be helped. karmafist 01:52, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, i've been noticing the contradiction in regards to when policy step on each others toes lately, particularly with WP:IAR. I have an idea though, keep your eyes on the Village Pump in the next few days.

Extension of probation

It has been suggested by SlimVirgin that your probation be extended to include Conspiracy theory, see Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Zen-master. I have suggested probation be extended to all articles and made indefinite. You may reply there. Fred Bauder 02:19, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome

And if you don't mind, a bit of advice. I'd suggest you really, really try not to get too reiterative with your edits and 'in the moment' about your opinions - the Misplaced Pages will be here a long, long time - so if you find you're a lone voice, you need to respect that and find other, more constructive ways to ensure your contributions are useful and worthy of being retained in the Misplaced Pages. If your opinions don't 'stick', give it time and space and question your beliefs again.

Try and cool off a bit, because I've seen some really good work from you and you shouldn't minimize your own effectiveness by fighting the wrong battles until blood is drawn. It's a tough call, but I think it's the only way you can navigate your way to a place of calm, dispassionate Zen.

I'm wishing you well. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 06:23, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Price-Anderson Nuclear Industries Indemnity Act

Please join the discussion on the talk page if you want to add anything. It's a highly contensious article that we've been going round and round on since June. Adding a word here and there might not seem big, but for this article, even making an "a" into an "an" is big (and no I am not kidding). --Woohookitty 18:35, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Zen, Don't mind Mike, that is just his inimitable way of greeting newcomers. It's his personal vision to see that everyone feels welcome and invited by the wiki-middle-management. Join the fun, and welcome to the party. Benjamin Gatti 21:05, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to remind you that your probation restrictions were recently extended to all articles. You are welcome to add to the talk page discussion, and to make constructive edits, but please don't edit war. At all. Ever. Other than that, good luck with the discussion, I've just protected the page because of the edit war. Dmcdevit·t 23:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I didn't say you were being disruptive. I was just reminding you, since I just protected the article in an edit war. You shouldn't edit war regardless of arbcom restrictions on you, by the way. I'm fairly certain that it was extended, three arbitrators commented, and all agreed, but I didn't bother to look it up. Of course, I we don't have to worry about that, right? Because there won't be any cause for concern, right? Dmcdevit·t 23:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I didn't say you have really done anything wrong there. I just saw you joining the fray. Just thought you should know that there are a few admins watching there, and since you were editing just before it was protected, I was just reminding you to be careful. Good behavior is expected regardless arbitration results. Dmcdevit·t 23:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

And no

There is no "pro-nuclear group engineering" the stuff on Price-Anderson Act. Quite the contrary. I'm a flaming liberal who has been involved in anti-nuclear protests for a long time. Simesa was a former nuclear technician who became a whistleblower and has become anti-nuclear. And Kate is a journalist and works for a publication (which shall remain nameless), which is known for being about as even handed as they come. And actually, #1 the article as a whole is more criticism than anything else (The criticism section is twice that of the other sections). And #2 katefan especially helped Ben early on with making the article more even handed. It started out very pro-nuclear. The whole issue has basically been that Ben wants to make the article more anti-nuclear and we think it's already very much anti-nuclear. What bothers me with this is that, as I said, I warned you that this was something you can't just blindly walk into. Think of it this way. We're 6 months into this and we're still debating the *introduction*. --Woohookitty 07:22, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Zen, the arbcom case is against Ben, not you. You've been involved on P-A for just a few days and unless you are in the arbcom case to defend Ben against the charges put against him, you don't belong in the case. We're not arguing against Price-Anderson. this is about Ben's behavior and that's all its about. --Woohookitty 02:56, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

User Bill of Rights

You may be interested in Misplaced Pages:User Bill of Rights. (SEWilco 06:26, 9 December 2005 (UTC))

3RR violation on Conspiracy theory

You have been blocked for 24 hours for violating the three revert rule on Conspiracy theory. Carbonite | Talk 15:42, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Unjustified extension of block

Karmafist just extended my 24 hour 3RR block to 48 without a basis in policy, my probation is specific only to race and intelligence and related articles, not Conspiracy theory. Also, my last edit to Conspiracy theory was not a "complex revert" but an attempt at compromise and improved clarity. zen master T 17:23, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

When the cabal accuses someone of a "complex revert," it means that they are no longer able to assume good faith on that editor's behalf. This is always a death sentence at Misplaced Pages for the simple reason that the project can only operate within the assumption of good faith.

On occasion, an editor has been able to save his login by castrating himself before the cabal, but this disables his ability to be bold. Luckily, the cabal gives you a way to become a productive editor once again while making it appear that they always win. As long as your new login never makes obvious reference to Zen-master or his M.O., the cabal turns a blind eye to the IP number match.

Please note that this method is especially useful for previous members of the cabal who asked far too many questions. --Peter McConaughey 18:23, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think that's very helpful advice. The worst way to convince other users that you're acting in good faith would be to use sockpuppets to evade ArbCom rulings. Two pieces of information that might be of interest to you are WP:TINC and Essjay's law. Carbonite | Talk 18:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps there is another method of rebuilding an assumption of good faith, though I have yet to see an editor pull it off once a "vote of no confidence" has been proffered. --Peter McConaughey 19:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Responding to Peter, so, you are saying instead of working to remove an unjustified block and point out propaganda and racism inducing methods of presentation I should just create a sockpuppet account? I am afraid that isn't my style and is perhaps a poor course of action to take for a variety of separate reasons. Good faith has been abused by people that use disinformation tactics to get their way. zen master T 18:41, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Please read Essjay's law that Carbonite proffered. These are "laws" that Carbonite, Raul, and other members of the cabal actually believe and enforce. I am not recommending a course of action, but offer information in an attempt to enable more possibilities. I know your intentions to be honorable and your contributions to be more substantial than the entire cabal combined. For that reason, I give serious consideration to supporting any course of action you choose, but we should also be aware of the possibilities of success for each choice and follow the path that will do the most good. --Peter McConaughey 19:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Raul's laws are just observations that very often prove to be true. They're not policies, so I have no idea how someone could actually enforce them. It would be like trying to enforce the laws of thermodynamics. I also find it rather strange that you allege that good faith is not being assumed in the case of Zen-master and then immediately start accusing other editors of belonging to a cabal. Besides being a load of rubbish, it also isn't very helpful to anyone. Carbonite | Talk 19:15, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

ZM, this was your seventh block for 3RR violations. Is there some part of the policy that you do not understand? It doesn't matter that you are fighting for truth, justice, and the American Way. Everybody has to respect the 3RR. -Willmcw 19:05, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I would like to support what Willmcw said and offer an alternative to the 3RR. I have found that the 0RR works much better. When we assume good faith, we can almost always incorporate some of what the previous editor has contributed. Use of the 0RR leads to a much more friendly environment at Misplaced Pages helps build that assumption of good faith toward those who desist. --Peter McConaughey 19:14, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The zero-revert rule can only work in a truly straightfoward and organic environment that doesn't have one or more editors employing censorship and disinformation techniques, not to mention the possibility a fabricated sockpuppet account majority is always at the ready should the people behind the curtain decide they needed to use it for bullying. zen master T 19:22, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Exactly. Using the Zero Revert Rule shows an assumption of good faith and competence. Reverting another person's work without trying to incorporate it, on the other hand, is a slap in the face. The user whose work is reverted is left with only three ways to explain the reversion: 1)he is trying to cause trouble; 2)he is incompetent; or 3)the person doing the reverting is heavy-handed. Out of those three options, which do you think an editor will pick? --Peter McConaughey 19:38, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

What about the infinitely more common case that the edit made the article worse. You're assuming that any edit adds value to an article. In the case of Zen-master, there is agreement among a majority of editors that his edits (some, not all) are not improving the article. I think there's also a need to assume good faith on the part of the reverting editor. Assuming bad faith and making accusations of cabals is unproductive. Carbonite | Talk 19:44, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree that assumptions of bad faith are as damaging as assumptions of incompetence, but is there any other way for an editor to account for a reversion? Granted, sometimes the editor knows that they are not acting in good faith, but in every other instance we are creating an environment of conflict when we revert. --Peter McConaughey 19:59, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Responding to Peter above, I think you miss my point, if an editor, as a member of the majority (fabricated or real) is actively censoring information and comprehension then they are already acting in bad faith, so an assumption to the contrary would be incorrect and unwise. I interpret you all to be saying pay no attention to the people behind the curtain surrounding the Misplaced Pages.

Zenmaster, eventhough I was involved in some discussions, I did not see any "active censoring" of information. What particular information source do you mean, can you give an example? Harald88 22:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

By censorship I mean a whole host of things from direct outright censorship to talk page game playing, apparently to flush out someone's complaint and criticism then cycle back to the cabal approved version now that they know how best to counter it. Note: on[REDACTED] it's all a matter of percent chance an obfuscation technique will succeed, not usually a situation of outright censorship, hiding things in plain sight and mischaracterizing the critical view to reduce its impact seems to be the best place and technique respectively. Adhib and Tom and maybe others have seemingly be using a direct form of censorship by playing up the "conspiracy theory" story type and using words evocative of the allegedly dubious genre and utilizing the excessive wikilinking technique for emphasis which has mostly eliminated any possible clear understanding of the ambiguity and need for disassociation surrounding the phrase. Willmcw, Slim and Jay's involvement in the article, yet lack of significant talk page discussion, is a noteworthy inconsistency, but I won't comment on them further. Though, overall some progress has been made but through an increasingly inorganic process, or I am increasely aware of it and how in bad faith it was apparently designed. zen master T 23:13, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Responding to Carbonite, the rules of[REDACTED] should be applied equally to an individual editor as to a fabricated or bullying majority. The wiki concept of collaborative editing is fundamentally decentralized, locally oriented and peer to peer, not hierarchical. In my interpretation, the recent history of conspiracy theory, including the discussion page, has been nothing but a test of various techniques by the people behind the curtain surrounding Misplaced Pages, I play along only to work toward the elimination of propaganda and language confusion. zen master T 20:09, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the cabal is acting in bad faith regarding your case, but have you considered that their reasons for acting in bad faith might be grounded in a belief that you are acting in bad faith as well? I think its safe to assume that both the Cabal and you want what's best for Misplaced Pages, but that the two of you merely have different methods for achieving that goal. We don't have to look behind the curtain at Misplaced Pages because the curtain is transparent. Everyone can see that a cabal exists. Everyone can see what it is doing, and very few people say anything. There may be some terror associated with this, but by-in-large, everyone who edits here knows the score and consents to it. They know that Misplaced Pages isn't what it purports itself to be, and they know that cabal-bias negatively affects the content, but they also know that Misplaced Pages is a step in the right direction - that it's the best this planet has got in the genre of world-wide consensus and communal thought. --Peter McConaughey 20:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

An in good faith "cabal" (group of people behind the curtain surrounding Misplaced Pages) would not utilize various bad faith techniques. What do you or the cabal consider bad faith about my Misplaced Pages:Title Neutrality proposal or the original? Do you mean premature or incomplete? To the alleged good faith cabal what is the benefit of letting a racism inducing method of presentation inside race and intelligence remain as is? It seems there are competing cabals, some infinitely worse than others? And no, the curtain or cabal is not sufficiently transparent, and from my vantage point has tainted the free culture, and GFDL etc movements, but I can assume good faith for the future. Though, without a git like repository to hopefully and theoretically ensure the integrity of changes I remain vastly skeptical of any claim that everything can be seen and that censorship isn't taking place at a lower layer. zen master T 22:00, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I am still waiting for the powers that be to find a policy justification for a 3RR block greater than 24 hours... zen master T 19:31, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Block Extention

Sorry about that, I forgot to let you know, figuring you'd have seen WP:AN/3RR. You can see it as a second offense in regards to that article or you can see it as a 3RR and a vio of the ruling on your rfar. In either case, 24 hours punishment apparently wasn't enough to make you stop creating disruption there. Remember what I said before. You can end future hassles if you want, but reverts are going to take you farther away from that. karmafist 20:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

By what policy are you blocking me for greater than 24 hours? zen master T 21:23, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I think he's referring to the Laws of the Cabal, not the subterfuge known as "Misplaced Pages policy."

Something that is often lost in a society that believes in the rule of law, is that the only thing backing up the rule of law is the natural law of might makes right. When we have not the tools to ensure that rule of law is followed, it will not be followed. --Peter McConaughey 21:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

All the more evidence the wiki concept is fundamentally more de-centralized and peer to peer than Misplaced Pages's hierarchical version, though, the cabal can keep their current hierarchy but organic alternatives should be allowed to flourish and curtains should be removed over time. To be a true wiki or not, that is the question. zen master T 22:55, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Zen-master, don't act like you don't know what's going on. This is at least your eighth 3RR vio, and your third on this article. A 48-hour block is well warranted by now if you don't want to learn to work with others. Dmcdevit·t 04:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

All blocks greater than 24 hours require arbcom approval, right? The highly coordinated majority has to have violated various policies, when will they be blocked? And to answer your question, I actually have a pretty good idea what is going on. zen master T 05:57, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely not. ArbCom has nothing to do with an ordinary admin use of discretion in blocking. Egregious violations often, rightly, get more than 24 hour blocks and have no place at arbcom. Also note that I didn't ask a question. This "coordinated majority" you speak of sounds an owful lot like consensus, so yes, edit warriors are punished rather than the consensus version. If it's NPOV you are worried about, RFC and mediation is the way to go, not edit warring. And because of your history of arbitration and previous blocks, I know that you know that's what you should do by now. Just stop the edit wars. Dmcdevit·t 09:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I meant I know what's going on as in Misplaced Pages overall. Quoting from WP:3RR "...sysops may block you for up to 24 hours", 48 is greater than 24, where is your policy justification again? True consensus means all viewpoints are represented, it does not mean "majority". It would be easy for me to say it takes two to edit war, but instead I will say it doesn't take that large of a group of editors to censor facts or obfuscate abstract comprehension of a subject. I've been down the RFC and even arbitration roads before, few if any random non POV aligned new editors rarely if ever show up to a controversial article. It seems as if certain editors rely on the fact most people don't spend much if any time seriously investigating an issue. Also, certain editors try very hard to portray censorship instead as a critical view editor being "disruptive" among many other disinformation techniques. zen master T 09:37, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

You've been edit warring for months. You were edit warring. That's your justification for a 48 hour block. This is an encyclopedia. You seem to be under the impression that policy governs the encyclopedia, but that's wrong. The encyclopedia governs the policy. It's just a means to an end. Dmcdevit·t 20:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Still waiting to here a policy based justification for a 3RR block greater than 24 hours... zen master T 18:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I've given you an encyclopedia-based one. That should be enough. Dmcdevit·t 20:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, I am not actually blocked currently so I don't know what is going on. For posterity what was your encyclopedia-based rationale exactly? zen master T 20:05, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Read it. I'm not going to get into one of these endless debates with you like on the RFAr page. I've said all that needs to be said. Dmcdevit·t 21:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Zen-master, I notice you've edited Conspiracy theory while banned. I don't think you meant to ignore the ban; I think this is a just a result of your misunderstanding the difference between blocking and banning. I believe banning is just on the honor system. I suggest you undo the edit, or if you want I'll undo it so nobody can say, even technically, that you edited after knowing you wearn't supposed to. I'll hold off on doing anything until I hear from you. Tom Harrison 21:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Only the arbcom can impose blocks greater than 24 hours, I thought I was blocked for 48 but it turns out I am not, I appreciate Dmcdevit's advice but by what policy is his "banning" binding on me? Though, due to the controversy surrounding Conspiracy theory I decided to only add info, I did not remove or rearange the stuff that was already there. zen master T 21:25, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

As I said before, you are just plain wrong about greater-than-24-hour blocks. Take a look at the block log once in a while and you'll see why. Dmcdevit·t 21:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

It's a block under 3RR and disruption, not a ban. It wasn't even my block. And yes, there was a technical mistake so that it expired too early, but I fixed that. Despite the fact that he edited when he was meant to have been blocked, you should, of course, only revert if it merits a revert. Use your judgment, if it's a good edit, why would we want to hurt the encyclopedia by reverting it because of some procedural thing? Dmcdevit·t 21:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Dmcedevit, you can not be considered a neutral admin in this case, please recuse yourself. There is still no basis in policy for having a 48 hour 3RR block. zen master T 21:49, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Also note for posterity, Dmcedevit and karmafist seem to be perpetuating confusion, my probation (or arbitration case editing restrictions) are specific only to race and intelligence and related articles, not applicable to conspiracy theory (there was some talk of extending it to all articles, but no decisions were made). zen master T 22:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration accepted

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Benjamin Gatti has been accepted. Please place evidence on Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Benjamin Gatti/Evidence. Proposals and comments may be placed on Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Benjamin Gatti/Workshop. Fred Bauder 04:00, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Zen - you can paste here, and I'll move it to the arbitration page for now. (if you like) Benjamin Gatti

I don't know what I can offer except as co-pilot, I agree the other side's outright censorship or obfuscation of the critical view and other citations in Price-Anderson Nuclear Industries Indemnity Act is not a run of the mill "content dispute". It seems they are trying to portray the issue soley as "disruptive" behavior, we should try to counter that by focusing on the various policy violations and censorhip without getting into content directly (though we may have to). We should also maybe try to retitle the arbcom case to something more neutral instead of allowing them to portray it as all about your behavior (the same thing happened to me in my race and intelligence arbcom case). Why were some members of the arbcom seemingly so adamant that the case should be titled with your username, instead of the article's title, that seems rather prejudicial and even worthy of recusal to me? What would you like me to look into? zen master T 06:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree that we should get it retitled. There are no prior mediations or RfC with my name on them, so it is premature to pursue an arbcom case under that flag. (Support my motion for same?) Benjamin Gatti 22:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, I support that motion. zen master T 22:28, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The motion Benjamin Gatti

Feel free to add my name to the motion, I am currently blocked from editing for like 20 more hours. Though, we may have to appeal to other arbcom members that didn't accept the case, two of the four on the case specifically requested your name be the title (I dare say that is grounds for recusal). zen master T 22:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration case modified

The Arbitration case involving you, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Zen-master, has been modified by the Committee after a request to do so, extending the probation from articles relating to race and intelligence to all articles.

Yours,

James F. (talk) 19:48, 14 December 2005 (UTC)