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Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/JWASM

Could an uninvolved admin possibly take a look at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/JWASM and maybe have a quiet word with Hutch48. He has taken this nomination very personally and is being rather intimidating to other contributors and potential contributors . There is more but AfD is only short - it's probably easier to read it in its entirity than by diff, but he has also made his comments about other contributors on another editors talk pages , and he does have a very recent history of being totally offended whenever someone makes any comments to one of his articles note edit summary (Magioladitis added an orphan tag to JWASM) (response to Orange Dog querying notability of a different cyberwidget) editor opined that article should not actually be about how to create compiler code.

NB - although I have not ventured to offer an opinion in the AfD, as I don't want any more comments about my technical knowledge, I have notified Hutch48 of this thread. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:51, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for notifying me of your complaint. To save retyping my response to the actions of the compainant, please refer to the discussion page related to the deletion of the JWASM page. I have asked that editors properly comply with the rules of Misplaced Pages as stated in the direct URL that I have cited.

Hutch48 (talk) 16:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

As you can see. Hutch48 continues to argue that I "broke the rules" by PRODding an article about some compiler code that had no sources verifying notability (indeed, at the time did not even make any claim to notability, just to usefulness) and appeared to me to be completely non notable under Misplaced Pages definition, Magioladitis "broke the rules" by tagging the article as an orphan, and OrangeDog "broke the rules" by listing the article for deletion. While he is entitled to his opinion, I do not feel he is entitled to continue to intimidate other editors away from AfD. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:17, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks like we have someone with some serious WP:OWN issues. It should be pointed out that a lot of times when an editor can't prove the notability of their subject, they take to attacking other editors. All I see are walls of texts, none of which establish notability. More so, looking at his contributions, I'm more concerned about how Hutch48 (talk · contribs) is continuously harassing OrangeDog (talk · contribs). --Smashville 16:25, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the facts speak for themselves so I'll try not to get into any arguments here. I would however appreciate a retraction and apology from those who have accused me of bad faith editing. As for the MASM article, I left my comments on the talk page and editors may act on them as they wish. OrangeDog (τ • ε) 19:07, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Hutch48 does have some serious ownership problems, specifically in the belief that people who don't "have sufficient historical or technical knowledge to comment on an article of this type". Similar language along these lines has continued at the AfD. -- Atama頭 23:30, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

It would appear that Hutch48 has taken his bat home. I would guess this incident can be closed and the Afd left to run its course. (And I never signed this post!!! Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:46, 27 January 2010 (UTC) )

Oh very interesting Hutch48 appears to be the admin of www.masm38.com's forum (no outing, he put the url and his real name on his userpage and he uses a similar username to his Misplaced Pages one at this forum), and according to him, Misplaced Pages is now scheduled to go down the tubes because we trashed his article. Unfortunately for him, even the code nerds aren't taking his complaints too seriously. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:55, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Although all of the admins are apparently driving around in Lamborghinis with their Wiki-riches. Hmm...apparently my check has been lost in the mail. --Smashville 15:19, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Isn't that always the way :) Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:32, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

I would like to thank the Misplaced Pages admins and editors for sticking to the established rules in a fair and unbiased manner. In the last decade, Steve Hutchesson (Hutch48) has rarely shown any "social" or diplomatic skills, in such conflicting situations on the internet, outside of ad hominem and other forms of bullying. As for OrangeDog expecting an apology, just be thankful that an entire USENET slander campaign hasn't been waged against you and Misplaced Pages as a result. Thanks and please keep sticking to your guns. As for the JWASM page itself, I wish to request a delay in any approval of its deletion. I would like a chance to review and bring it up to Misplaced Pages standards over the next week. It's a very useful tool, perhaps even the unofficial successor to MASM itself, and I wouldn't like to see the corresponding page lost as a result of the shortsightedness of one Steve Hutchesson. Thanks much. SpooK (talk) 20:50, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

The Afd is currently pretty cut and dried, so I'd start by throwing out some good notability refs rather than fiddling with the text. Post 'em in the Afd if you have 'em. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:03, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

This has now progressed to pretty blunt personal attacks. -- Bfigura 02:07, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, come on, it's right there at the top of my user page. I'm more concerned about his characterizing requests for sources as "a pile of FUCKING GRAFFITI". —Korath (Talk) 04:05, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, he already mentioned as much. But given his tone and other comments, looking at your user page wasn't my first instinct. -- Bfigura 05:39, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

It seems probable to me that JWAsm is notable, even if the current people involved are too busy being conflicted to look up sources :-P . Even if the page does get deleted, I'd definitely do it without prejudice, and it would help if we point out to Spook that it's possible to ask for the original text of the article, if he wants to make a new and improved version. (We should also take some time to explain how and where to look for reliable sources :-)).

If you know that I'm an eventualist, I suppose it's redundant to mention that I'm dismayed by all this "the article needs to be perfect RIGHT NOW" attidude I see displayed these days. It leads to lots of preventable conflict, as well as much redundant effort.

--Kim Bruning (talk) 05:33, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

To be fair, a lot of the problem has been Hutch48's terrible attitude, where all he keeps doing is insisting (often sometimes with swear words) that everyone else is incompetent and breaking the rules. And Doktorspin's continuous wikilawyering that the rules somehow don't apply in this case hasn't improved the atmosphere any. All it needs is one source - say Sourceforge recommending it as the alternative to MASM, or some nerdy but noted in field online journo saying this is going to have an impact. The information is going to be in places like that - but Hutch48 recommending the forum where he spent 48 hours trashing Misplaced Pages isn't helping his cause at all.Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:01, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

As I indicated, in dealing with Steve Hutchesson, don't expect such situations to do anything but degrade... rapidly. In his mind, if you don't agree with him, you are either wrong or misinformed, but never justified. The exception being if you have something of value for him. You'll notice that on his forum, japheth (the current developer of JWASM) is calling Hutch's general decision to no longer edit Misplaced Pages articles as a "positive outcome." Historically, such "back talk" would generally result in humiliation/slander/retaliation and/or banning. However, JWASM being the most probable successor to MASM, well, we can see the need for one to bite their tongue if the future of their "legacy" was dependent on that person's efforts. My entire point in mentioning this is that you have recent and direct proof that Steve Hutchesson will not respect you, Misplaced Pages or its rules, so you have very few choices on how to deal with him... usually dwindling down to writing him off as a troll and banning him, for most people. So far, your (admin's/editor's) choice to be as diplomatic as you are about the situation has been admirable, professional and much appreciated.

Now, to put a more positive spin on this situation, and as a party not invested in the success/development of JWASM, I am willing to write a review of JWASM and post it on something like ASMCommunity or Slashdot. It will be a non-trivial and unbiased, although technically oriented, review of JWASM... what it is for, what it can do, recommendations/advantages/disadvantages vs MASM and other assemblers, etc. Overall, I know this situation must seem somewhat rather silly, especially when certain "others" cannot make the distinction between an encyclopedia which requires significant verifiable resources and a technical manual, but it is rather important to the assembly language community; and potentially important to other software developers that could benefit from the knowledge of this tool's existence.

I have come to the conclusion that whether or not the JWASM page is deleted in its current incarnation is of no consequence, as it is clearly outside of Misplaced Pages's guidelines. I believe a page similar to NASM or GAS with relevant links to resources, including a link to the review I write, should be sufficient for notability/relevance and other guidelines. That being said, I hope the my explanation/proposal is sufficient enough to keep the revised/new JWASM page safe from deletion. Thanks for your patience, understanding and any further advisement/direction that you may give regarding this situation.

--SpooK (talk) 17:12, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

That would I think be helpful. If the page is not kept, one that covers WASM and JWASM is likely to replace it, as WASM has the necessary notability, and the two make a progression. Whatever happens, a critical technical review posted to an appropriate community would be useful for others to reference - with this kind of subject, the necessary references are going to be tucked away in unusual sites that are viewed by their community as reliable sources.Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:29, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

+1 Informative. ;-)

Thanks for the feedback, Elen. I've submitted a review/story to Slashdot. I'll attempt to get the "others" involved by referencing it in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/JWASM, and hopefully they participate positively and get this thing going in the right direction.

(And another +4 Conciliatory : I know that score doesn't exist on Slashdot, but on Misplaced Pages, people are willing to go a long way for you if you are willing to work towards consensus. --Kim Bruning (talk) 17:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Meanwhile, if anyone wants to wallop Spin with a trout, please feel free. He really isn't helping attempts to resolve this amicably. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:45, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I pity the admin who's going to read that 128K Afd... Pcap ping 15:26, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, this is getting ridiculous. Can someone do something about this (RE: Hutch's comments at the AfD today)? OrangeDog (τ • ε) 15:15, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that you are trying to go head to head with someone that simply will not concede. Give him an inch, and he'll take a mile. Another part of the problem is that the entire situation is not so "cut n' dried" so to speak. If the rules and guidelines were facts and not opinions/suggestions on how to best operate given a multitude of situations, and thus not subject to multiple and varying interpretation, AfD's would not be required. As a prime example, WP:NOTINHERITED makes concessions in certain situations and therefore is not absolute. To perhaps the benefit of your position, I think what Hutch48 doesn't realize is that his latest arguments are further justifying why JWASM should be apart of the Open Watcom Assembler page and not a separate/independent page. In the end, and unless you ban/block him, Hutch48 will have, at least, the "last word" in the discussion... you can be assured of that. In my history in dealing with him, your best bet is to go ahead and let him finish on his rants. If you've made valid points for the AfD to conclude as a deletion, no further amount of indirection is going to nullify them or reinforce his position. Now, to be fair, I do personally find your "Then bother to read a dictionary and find out what inherited means." statement to him rather rude and antagonizing. Never mind that someone of his age and understanding is probably well aware of the dictionary meaning(s) of inherited. However, you are trying to argue the dictionary value of "inherited" (a near absolute) and use it to reinforce the non-absolute terms of WP:NOTINHERITED. In short, it's a non sequitur and your near ad hominem does nothing to reinforce your position or your latest plea about him here. SpooK (talk) 19:56, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't mind if he spends 160+kb ranting, what I object to is repeated accusations of bad faith or disruption on my part. I concede that my final comment was a little rude, but it directly mirrors the previous response he gave me. It will also probably be the last time I respond to his comments. I though it was a suitable response to highlight his repeated assertion that JWASM is notable because its license is notable or because its owner is notable. I thought I'd better post here again as Hutch said that he would no longer participate, but has continued to do so. OrangeDog (τ • ε) 21:35, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, its best to continue to let him look like the aggressor. I honestly can't say that JWASM is notable enough to warrant its own page based on the premise that the source code base that JWASM has been essentially "forked" from is, in itself, from a notable tool. Again, this favors more a merge than it does a keep or delete scenario. I also agree that this situation has gotten way out of hand. However, and less I am mistaken, the AfD closure and review process are not far off... thankfully there will be an end to it :P SpooK (talk) 22:24, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Block

Could an admin block this account User talk:J.delanoy is an imbecilic motherfucker, I have reported it to UAA but seems to be heavily backlogged. BigDunc 11:22, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Blocked by Willking1979. BigDunc 11:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Something that blatant could probably be taken to WP:AIV, where it might get faster results. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:48, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

J.delanoy seems to have a fan here, has the IP been traced and blocked yet? raseaC 13:50, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I was about to ask the same question. J.Delanoy himself is a checkuser, and it would certainly be ethically justified for him to use his skills in isolating that character if he wanted to. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:51, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

It's actually better suited for WP:UAA. Master&Expert (Talk) 11:05, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Whichever one gets faster results is the one to use. :) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 00:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

User:JBsupreme moving an article just before nominating for deletion

Just recently, User:JBsupreme moved Comparison of Internet Relay Chat clients to List of Internet Relay Chat clients without an edit summary and I couldn't see a reason for that. Especially because it obviously is a comparison article and he said on the talk page that he'd nominate it for deletion "next week" . Therefore, I requested the move to be reverted . I also notified JBsupreme on the user talk page about that . Now, JBsupreme nominated the moved article for deletion: . This initial version of the AfD lists one previous 2007 AfD about a totally different article located here and not the recent one to the old title of the article here. To illustrate that the old AfD isn't about the same article content, one can take a look at the version the 2007 AfD was about here. I have the strong suspicion that this move right before AfD'ing the article was intended and that JBsupreme intentionally didn't link the most recent AfD about the article which resulted in speedy keep to game the system. I didn't attempt to resolve this dispute with JBsupreme directly, because he didn't reply to my message about the requested move and my involvement in the recent Arbcom case about JBsupreme and others, where he refused to comment. I'm not sure the current state of the AfD is how it should be and would ask an (uninvolved?) administrator to fix the issue. Also, JBsupreme not using edit summaries when making that nomination for deletion wasn't appropriate, he was told to use them just a few hours before making it . --thommey (talk) 00:25, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The allegation that I didn't respond is false; I posted a response to you on the article talk page nearly 3 hours before you posted here. If you will look right above on the talk page of that article, there has been an ongoing discussion regarding the indiscriminate nature of this list (or "comparison", if you will). I see that the article has been moved back to "Comparison of" rather than "List of", which is fine, but the rationale for deletion still stands. Thank you for the note in any case, I hope this draws more eyes to the problem with these type of indiscriminate lists which are using Misplaced Pages as a directory service for non-notable software applications. JBsupreme (talk) 00:40, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I wouldn't even disagree with removing some clients from Comparison of Internet Relay Chat clients - deleting the article is a different thing. And this thread is neither about restricting the list nor about the AfD itself. It's really only about your behaviour. Moving the article to hide the previous AfD on your AfD and not using edit summaries is clearly gaming the system. You've been told to use edit summaries before (your edit summaries have also been a topic of previous AN/I threads), and I'm still waiting for your reason for an obviously pointless and wrong move a few days before nominating the article for deletion. Unless you provide one, I can't see any other reason than the gaming, no matter how hard I try. --thommey (talk) 00:59, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I disagree that it was a wrong move, which is why I moved it in the first place. If someone wants to institute mandatory edit summaries into MediaWiki I'm fine with that. JBsupreme (talk) 01:05, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

It is already mandatory to use edit summaries when proposing or nominating for deletion. It is also required to link to prior AfDs. JB, you;'re experienced enough to know about this. DGG ( talk ) 01:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Re which is a veiled personal attack in itself: Please stop making those attacks without evidence. And I wrote "maybe" because I acknowledge there is a chance I'm mistaken and not seeing everything, but actually it's pretty obvious now. --thommey (talk) 22:05, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Your "maybe" is a veiled personal attack. Do not add it back. JBsupreme (talk) 23:18, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

User:Rodhullandemu and User:raseaC - New user experience

User:Noah Ringer is not the best editor, in fact, he may be a vandal. But I want you all to look how his edits - which could be in good faith, have been handled by these two users. Often we talk about the 'welcoming atmosphere' of Misplaced Pages being eroded, well take a look at the experience of this editor.

• Noah makes this edit
• He receives this warning from Dorothybrousseau for 'vandalism
• Noah reverts
  • and leaves a rather poorly formatted warning back to Dorothybrousseau
• Noah recieves this message, mentioning that he made previous 'vandalism' edits (not under this account)
  • Presumably with this IP
    • Retaliatory message by Noah
    • and another 'warning' to Dorothybrousseau
• Rodhullandemu leaves a NPA warning
  • Noah removes the PA
• In the mean time, reverts had been going on over the initial edit
  • Noah tells Rodhullandemu he is not vandalising and again - These are his edits to the page:

• This is where things go wrong: Rodhullandemu responds with "Get a clue, please"
  • Noah gives an annoyed, but civil response.
    • Rodhullandemu responds: "Please point out which of my 70,000+ edits do not constitute "a good example". Also, as an Admin, I am duty-bound, and empowered, to enforce editing policies and standards of behaviour. If that means knocking heads together, I'll knock heads together, even if there is only one head to knock."

• Simultaneously raseaC leaves Noah a warning for leaving silly warnings
  • Noah asks 'how is leaving warnings vandalism'
    • raseaC's response: Giving other editors silly 'warnings' is unconstructive and therefore vandalism. Don't do it.

At this point, I get involved. I replaced the warnings on Noah's talk page with a "Hi how can I help you" message. RaseaC adds his back, telling me never to refactor his comments again. I leave both raseaC and Rodhullandemu notes (raseaC a nice one, Rodhullandemu, not so much). A sample of their responses indicated that I would not be able, or willing to try to resolve this issue of how new editors should be treated:

• Rodhullandemu: Editors who don't get it, even when told, are expensive in terms of hand-holding, but I am not a nanny- I am, if you like, an enforcer.
• raseaC: I disagree, anyone with a shred of common sense would know that his interaction with that user was inappropriate.
• raseaC: Problem editors are more likely to remember a message from a WP:DICK than a template warning from another editor. If they were serious about helping chances are they'd consider it a lesson.

I ask you: how should this new user, regardless of their intentions be treated? Clearly some positive edits - removing the PA, asking why something was wrong - some wikilinking. Is this an appropriate way to to treat new editors? I spent a lot of time formatting this in an easy to follow way. For the full conversations both editors had with me Rodhullandemu and RaseaC. I have no objections to Dorothybrousseau's behavior, which I think shows the right attitude to have. Prodego 01:25, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• I would suggest you review the very first diff you give, and note the preceding edit - a reversion of vandalism by Rodhullandemu. Then click to see what that vandalism was, and the name that was included in the inappropriate text... "Noah Ringer". I think you will find that the account Noah Ringer is the same individual that was vandalising the articles by inserting the name Noah Ringer as an ip. LessHeard vanU (talk) 01:36, 30 January 2010 (UTC):

• That IP is linked a few lines down from that first diff. :) Its not so much that this editor is perfect - I'm saying that the response was not in line with the vandalism and mistakes he made, particularly given that he did show at least some level of good intentions. Prodego 01:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

SRSLY? "Noah Ringer is a reincarnation of David Carradine"? WP:REDFLAG! Rodhullandemu 01:50, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) This is the nonsense that started this incident. It didn't fill me with any confidence. The same editor clearly started an account, which by any standard is a single-purpose account. I go further: I pointed out that if this editor is Noah Ringer, the actor, he should say so, otherwise, this is an impersonation account. He hasn't, as far as I'm aware, done so., and is blockable for that alone. However, this is not an "incident" requiring admin intervention, although the usual unnecessary drama may well ensue. If anything, if belongs in a Request for comment, if the editor bringing it here thinks it has the legs to survive there. No admin action is suggested, nor even, in my view, worthy. If we can't just get on with our jobs, which we do conscientiously, and continuously, without interference from those who don't have the full picture, we are doomed tr failure. Rodhullandemu 01:44, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

For the record, about 90% of all editors, good or bad, start off looking like SPAs. And yes, I do expect there to be an attempt to help new users understand our rules, not kneejerk reactions to ban them for various misdeeds. If this editor is indeed Noah Ringer, we're talking about a very young person who would benefit more from guidance than hostility. Risker (talk) 01:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Any person who is the reincarnation of David Carradine would be considered precocious to be speaking, let alone editing Misplaced Pages (I am fairly sure that karma does not include time travel, well not the last version I read on WP anyway). More to the point, I would note that RH&E was previously involved with this ip (Special:Contributions/67.64.157.147) and given the preferred subject matter and actions found there I should think that AGF need not have been overly extended to this user. LessHeard vanU (talk) 02:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Let's get this clear: do you seriously think this and this were inadequate to indicate to this new editor that his contributions were problematic? And if so, youth aside, he can clearly string words together. So why did he not ask for guidance, and why, when threatened with blocking as an IP, did he then create an account to avoid blocking as an IP?. Sucks. Anyone who can spell "reincarnation" correctly ain't that naive. Rodhullandemu 02:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Lols. WP rules trumps common sense again. I'd like to point out that despite Prodego removing my contributions to a third party's talk despite not consulting me first I was only to happy to take his concerns into account and adjust the warning so in effect this situation was sorted way before this thread was started. This is the mother of all non-issues. Admins must be bored. raseaC 10:27, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Well, let's have it then. Prodego, what admin action, if any, are you requesting be taken here? I don't see it. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• I'm pointing you to the number one problem Misplaced Pages has - that being the complete destruction of a welcoming atmosphere. All I want is agreement on how to treat less than ideal editors (or even vandals). Prodego 07:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

4chan username vandalism

Guess the widdle 4chan kiddies couldn't get a date on a Friday night beyond the inflatable type. The new user log's getting hit with the usual BS.--PMDrive1061 (talk) 01:41, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh they can only dream to someday own a RealDoll. I think for now it's Rosey Palm and her 5 Sisters, maybe some low-quality internet pr0n on the side. Burpelson AFB (talk) 01:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

PS: How do I get a hold of that rollback tool which deletes the names from the log? Me like... --PMDrive1061 (talk) 01:44, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

LOL! Well, the little tools are watching the goings-on here. They're so cute when they're little, no?  :) --PMDrive1061 (talk) 01:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Cute? Ehh, not so much. >:) —DoRD (?) (talk) 05:01, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

If there's nothing more to done, let's WP:DENY and move on. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 04:21, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Can I just label this 'ANI Thread of the Week' :) - i'll go through the userlogs later today and scrub the worst of them per WP:RD2 - Alison 05:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The participation in this thread seems to suggest either that several Wikipedians are likewise dateless on a Friday night, or that their idea of a date is editing Misplaced Pages together. I'm not sure which to go with, here. Badger Drink (talk) 23:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Dateless and damn proud of it. What's YOUR excuse? ;) GJC 11:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

User:Andrewrp

This user reverted me at WLOT-LP. I tried to ask them why they reverted my edit (), as I see nothing wrong with it, but they reverted my leaving a message () and reverted WLOT-LP again. Since they won't answer me, can someone help? 69.221.165.95 (talk) 01:43, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

You are obviously advertising that the t.v. station is for sale, and have a link to the site where you can but it. That is Spam and advertising, which is prohibited. Andrewrp 01:48, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Andrew seems to have responded to you on your talk page. Misplaced Pages is not for advertising, please. Burpelson AFB (talk) 01:49, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I answered at Andrewrp's talk, since they messaged me. Read the article- it's talking about an ownership battle. That isn't my site. That's also violating WP:AGF to say I'm "obviously" doing something. 69.221.165.95 (talk) 01:50, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

It is spam, as the pdf offers contact info to sell the station. Please see THIS

User did not respond to my messages, says he quits wikipedia. I believe this incident is resolved. And to any admin that may be reading this, let me point out that this was never or was never intended to be an edit war. I would not have broken 3RR if he continued. Andrewrp 02:03, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

From what I've read so far I think your actions were blatantly wrong. I think you attacked this IP too quickly. The IP then contacted you on the talk page to find out why you reverted it and instead of calmly explaining your reasoning and cordially suggesting the conversation be continued on the talk page so that the discussion is in the open you reverted that. I think a new user who didn't know much about wikipedia would view that as actively adversarial. I don't blame the IP's frustration with you. As for the merits of the IP's edit; the argument for removal due to Misplaced Pages:Spam#Citation_spam seems questionable. If a radio station is trying to sell itself then this information is important for the article to include. The reference the IP used seems fine to me. Its a primary source, but just because it includes some contact information doesn't invalidate it. If you could have found a secondary source to replace it and tried to include it instead then I would have seen your point. But if there is only a primary source to provide this info, I think its inclusion is more important than the more secondary concerns that the reference has contact information of the station. I guess what I'm mainly saying is that this wasn't a clear cut advertising issue and that you should have conducted the conversation on the articles talk page so that all could see. I think the desire to talk about it on the IP's talk page can seem like a strange type of control issue.Chhe (talk) 09:17, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

"If a radio station is trying to sell itself then this information is important for the article to include." Absolutely not per WP:SOAP and WP:NPOV. Without independent sources, this is highly promotional and inappropriate. --Ronz (talk) 16:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

A series of range blocks requested

I have been dealing with an unregistered vandal for the past two months and due to his increased activity over the past week, I have been able to narrow down the ranges IP addresses he uses amongst those available to users of SBC Global. A full description of the vandal (and the dozen or so IPs used so far) can be seen here. I am requesting that the following ranges of IP addresses to be blocked until SBC Global/AT&T responds to the abuse request:

• 76.200.100.0/22 (76.200.100.0 - 76.200.103.255)
• 76.202.56.0/22 (76.202.56.0 - 76.202.59.255)
• 76.204.76.0/22 (76.204.76.0 - 76.204.79.255)
• 76.205.24.0/22 (76.205.24.0 - 76.205.27.255)
• 75.36.128.0/20 (75.36.128.0 - 75.36.143.255)

This is much more effective than protecting the pages that are most often hit, because there have always been beneficial edits to these pages by unregistered users in the past. This one individual for some reason has been repeatedly removing references from these pages and does so even after he has been reverted on the same IP a few moments beforehand. These are as narrow I can make the ranges.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 03:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

This was originally posted over at WP:AN but I got no response.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 03:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

If there's a pattern to the edits, it may be more appropriate to use an edit filter, depending on what that pattern is. Do you have some diffs so I might be able to take a look? (You didn't mention any particular IPs so I don't exactly know what to look for.) --Shirik (Questions or Comments?) 03:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The only common pattern are the articles hit and the references removed from them constantly. All of the IPs used can be seen here.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 03:55, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I remember working on this filter now that I look at the description... It was being handled by filter 286 but it was causing performance problems and there were no hits, so I deactivated it. I will re-enable it and see if I can't resolve the performance problems. --Shirik (Questions or Comments?) 03:58, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) After working with it for a bit I got it to a reasonable point for now. It's currently running log only while I verify it, so a few things might still get through. The best course of action for now is, if you see another thing that should have been hit by the filter, leave me a message on my talk page so I can investigate it. Administrators: I leave it up to you if you want to mark this resolved or if you want to go through with the range block. I am sufficiently satisfied that this will keep this particular pattern of abuse at bay for now, but... well... WP:BEANS. --Shirik (Questions or Comments?) 05:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Can't we just semi protect the articles concerned? Spartaz 05:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd rather not have all these pages semiprotected. There are a bunch of useful contributions from IPs that I don't want to lose.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:14, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Can't we just implement flagged revisions already? JBsupreme (talk) 05:41, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Can someone please institute these five range blocks? The vandal had come back again today and if these ranges were blocked, then he would not have been able to remove the references again.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 21:42, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a diff for this? If it happened before 15:54 Eastern 30 Jan then it was because the filter was not yet set to disallow as I was waiting for a final verification on the filter before activating it (it is set to disallow now). If it happened afterwards, I would like to see the diff so I know what needs to be adapted in the filter to catch it. I'm not sure blocking nearly 10000 IPs for such a minor issue is a good idea, especially when it's something that can be handled by a filter. Some things take time to perfect, and there's no real "damage" here (such as oversight issues, etc.). But this is my personal opinion. --Shirik (Questions or Comments?) 09:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Image BLP?

--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 14:55, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

User:Dougweller asked me to take a look at File:Sex Tourists Thailand.jpg to see if I believed it constituted a WP:BLP concern. I do, both in title and in its usage. While the individuals are not named, they are clearly visible and recognizable by anyone who knows them. The uploader claims to have permission from the two gentlemen (Talk:Sex tourism#BLP concerns), but this is not verified, and there's no mention of permission from the lady. (He says the same here, also indicating the picture was taken specifically for this article...three and a half years before it was uploaded, according to metadata.) Moving this image to a neutral title will not resolve the matter, given the purpose for use. Since images are not my major area I bring it here for additional review. --Moonriddengirl 13:00, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Deleted: G10. The uploader's other contributions hardly add to their credibility. CIreland (talk) 13:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

There is

1. No need for an image of what someone who is a sex tourist looks like in this article.
2. No evidence that the people in the image are indeed sex tourists
3. No evidence that they are in Thailand. The proliferation of Heinz tomato ketchup bottles and common North American sugar and salt sachets seems to suggest they are not.

So this image shouldn't be here. And that's even before the potential personal attack/BLP indicators. Canterbury Tail talk 13:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• (EC) I would be listing it for Deletion, Not only is there a BLP issue (which doesn't even demonstrate the subject title it is trying to cover as it's just looks like tourists drinking at a bar) but also seems not to be the uploaders own work according to the information they have given in the summary. Bidgee (talk) 13:13, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

(ec) Endorse the deletion, and was just about to advocate for it here. There's absolutely no way for us to know that we have the permission of everyone in the article to use that photo, that they were in fact engaging in "sex tourism," or indeed that they were even in Thailand. Inherent BLP problems make deleting an easy call I think. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 13:14, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I support/endorse the deletion of that image as well. Pcap ping 13:19, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I endorse this deletion also. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 13:21, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Add to this, the same uploader previously did this and several other rather dubious edits. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:26, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, that kind of seals it, doesn't it? :/ Thanks for the swift feedback (and handling, CIreland :)). I almost speedied (and probably would have if I had noticed that he claimed it was taken especially for the article, when it was taken in 2006, before posting it here), but I've not handled much by way of BLP images. --Moonriddengirl 13:30, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the user in question, I recently left them a message on their talk page after reviewing (and reverting) their edits. They were given feedback last year in regards to their behaviour, and it has recently continued (with no intervening edits). They appear to be a low-grade vandalism-only account, except that they have the appearance of acting in good faith. I say appearance because they made this edit, which does not look like the typing of someone alive during World War II, in addition to the use of the "imho" edit summary here. The rest of their edits vary between unhelpful and vandalism. Could an admin please take a look? Thanks. Throwaway85 (talk) 13:45, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Rabbi Orr Cohen (talk · contribs) Having reviewed all the contibutions of this user, I have indefinately blocked the account as vandalism only. WP:AGF only goes so far. This is simply a troll. Please review his contributions yourself if you have concerns about my action, I'm sure you'll agree with it when you do.--Scott Mac (Doc) 13:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I endorse this block. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 16:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks everyone. I was late leaving the house for worldwide cinema broadcast of a Terry Pratchett play (Nation) from the National Theatre, London, & really shouldn't have been looking at my computer at all!. Dougweller (talk) 18:20, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Possible link spamming

Since the word "wiki" is often mistakenly equated to Misplaced Pages, I suspect this job ad might lead to a spam attack that would earn someone money if it's not detected in time. Please be on the look out for anyone with a name that resembles one of the bidders or try to pry more details from the project creator by making a bid to get more information. See http://www.getafreelancer.com/projects/601428.html for more information. - 87.211.75.45 (talk) 16:03, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I've reported the ad for abuse. I'm not willing to add my personal details to the website, so I'm unable to post on the project board. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 16:43, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

User:Rama

I'm slightly gobsmacked... but Rama has been adding {{di-replaceable fair use}} to a whole raft of Holocaust and POW images. These include File:Holocaust123.JPG, File:Soviet Prisoners of War.jpg, File:WieselAuschwitzpits.jpg and File:Mass Grave Bergen Belsen May 1945.jpg. When I asked him about File:Holocaust123.JPG, he wrote "Obviously not. I would not have made the edit then".

I've asked him for more info, so I'm hoping that he'll respond soon, but something doesn't seem quite right to me. Any admins have an opinion on this? I only take it here because I don't feel that this is a content dispute, this looks suspiciously like POINTy behaviour. I could be wrong here though, but does not seem likely.

I'll let Rama know about this thread so he can respond. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 16:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Of potential relevance here is Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Rama. --Moonriddengirl 16:37, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) See Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Rama. I think a topic ban may be in order to curb the disruption resulting from their actions taken in light of their extreme views on fair use and replaceability. –xeno 16:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Wow. He doesn't seem to have much discernment in this matter. I take a dim view to most fair use images, but in his case it's ridiculous! - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 16:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, please check this slightly inappropriate edit summary. Should someone block him for a day or so to get him to engage with this discussion, since he doesn't seem to be stopping? --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 18:30, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Can someone take action to make sure none of the images he's tagged are deleted until this is resolved? --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 18:36, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Also see Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#Deletion_process_is_dysfunctional --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 18:50, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, just for a summary:

• one can't summarily delete frivolously uploaded non-Free material
• one can't tag it for review, it is "only slightly less disruptive than" (!). Tags get mass-reverted, even when the image is so very much irreplaceable that it is actually available on Commons (File:Israel'sDepartmentStoreboycott.jpg and File:Bundesarchiv Bild 102-14469, Berlin, Boykott-Posten vor jüdischem Warenhaus.jpg)
• one cannot explicitly replace images in the articles because it is "No consensus. Combative. Pointy".

Assuming that everybody is aware of the policy Misplaced Pages:Non-free content, I would like to ask the assembly how exactly one is supposed to remove superfluous non-Free material. If, as I assume, there is no possibility to do that, I suggest the participants above devote their energies to abolishing the policy rather than to lynching the people trying in good faith to implement it. Rama (talk) 18:58, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

So, what, images from the Holocaust are being marked as "replaceable" ? What should we do, Rama, hold another one and invite wiki-photographers to it so they can then properly license them? Tarc (talk) 19:44, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Rama might have invented a time machine. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:50, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

While I agree that User:Rama does not always work within process, and I don't think it's a good idea to start tagging these articles for speedy deletion without discussion, I think it's important to recognize that there are valid concerns here. There is more than one image which might represent the horrors of the Holocaust; some of them are free. Can a free image like File:German atrocities. Germany, Poland & Czechoslovakia, 1945.jpg adequately convey what is conveyed by File:Holocaust123.JPG? That one may be a matter for consensus, but it's not an unreasonable stance if Rama believes that it can. Rama, you ask where to go to remove superfluous non-free material; are you familiar with the largely forgotten process board at Misplaced Pages:Non-free content review? It seems to be engineered for precisely such situations as this. Granted, it's not quick, and getting somebody to actually close discussions there is a feat in itself. But it provides a forum to explain why you think the image is replaceable and by what and for others to agree or disagree. And I have optimistic hopes that if more people know about it and use it, it might actually function better. Alternatively, you can also discuss that at the talk pages of the articles where such images are used. If you replace a non-free image with an appropriate free image, explain why at the talk page, and the replacement proves uncontroversial, the unused non-free image can be tagged for {{Di-orphaned fair use}}. Given the circumstances, I would give it a day or two before tagging it, myself. --Moonriddengirl 22:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

That relies on assuming good faith in Rama's actions. Through several AN/I discussions and the RfC, I believe I have enough "clear evidence to the contrary" to kick AGF to the curb. Tarc (talk) 00:25, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Outside of this situation (that is, two ani threads & the RfC), I don't know Rama. I think there has been a tendentious tendency to delete material against process, which I gather has resolved, and a worrying tendency to persist in the face of community input, but I'm inclined to suspect that he means well. (If it had all been Holocaust-related content, then I'd begin to worry there was a political axe being ground here. It's not, though.) Even if Rama has gone about it the wrong way, I just think he has an, um, unusual interpretation of "replaceable" and probably feels he is doing a service to Misplaced Pages and our reusers by trying to keep images to guideline. I don't think Rama should continue as he has, but I think in all fairness we do need to acknowledge that he may have what he feels are good reasons. Suggesting alternatives that aren't disruptive seems to me like a good idea. --Moonriddengirl 00:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I know Rama well enough to know that while he is being disruptive, there is no ill-intent to his actions. Certainly you could in no way call him a holocaust denier - his actions have nothing to do with the topic itself, but are merely his stance against fair use images. Normally I would find this admirable, but in this case it's really pushing things. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 01:54, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't consider File:Dachau cold water immersion.jpg replacable. Nor do I think that File:Exocet imapct.jpg would be possible to replace. So why did these get {{Di-orphaned fair use}} added to them? - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 22:42, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Rama, it is clear from discussion here and on your RFC that your view of what constitutes "free use" and "replaceable" differs significantly from the Misplaced Pages consensus. What will it take to get you to stop trying to impose your view on everyone else? Jayjg 00:35, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Many of these images are quite unique. This one, for example, is one of a series of famous photographs taken by prisoners in Auschwitz and smuggled out by the Polish underground. They are in the public domain in Poland, but because Misplaced Pages's servers are in the United States, all we can do is claim fair use—though this one may be PD in the United States too under the Uruguay Round Agreements Act, because it entered the public domain before January 1, 1996. We claim fair use for it on WP only because the PD situation isn't entirely clear. We obviously can't find out who took this image and track that person's family down, and it's clearly not replaceable. We have to claim fair use for most Holocaust images for similar reasons.

Given that the prisoners took and smuggled out these images—at great personal risk to everyone involved—precisely to make sure people believed what was going on, it seems bizarre to delete them from the encyclopedia that's meant to contain the sum of human knowledge. This is one of the more tragic aspects of that knowledge. If ever a fair-use claim were justified, surely it's here. SlimVirgin 00:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Slim, I have to say that is the best summation of this whole issue I've read on this thread. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 01:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Another aspect of SV's point is that these images illustrate the degree of the widespread abuse of opponents of the Nazi regime, even though there are free images that show similar scenes the fact that there are others from different locations and timeframes more clearly illustrates that such practices were endemic. Reliance on a couple of free images would diminish that perception. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:22, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Tarc and Baseball Bugs, welcome to Wikimedia Commons.

Tbsdy: File:Exocet imapct.jpg is not needed in the article. This image should be linked in "external images", not hosted on Misplaced Pages as Fair use. It is not inherently notable. I refuse to discuss editorial issues regarding the Holocaust, so I will not answer regarding File:Dachau cold water immersion.jpg. Per Non-Free policy, I do not have to, it is up to the people who want to keep the image to prove that it is not replaceable.

Jayjg , have you stopped beating your wife?

SlimVirgin, under your statements, I agree that this image could be claimed, but it needs to be discussed for itself in the article and in its label. This is done properly in Night_(book), but not in Holocaust. Furthermore, I refuse to believe that this is the case of all the images in the article, especially with the couples File:German atrocities. Germany, Poland & Czechoslovakia, 1945.jpg - File:Holocaust123.JPG and File:Israel'sDepartmentStoreboycott.jpg - File:Bundesarchiv Bild 102-14469, Berlin, Boykott-Posten vor jüdischem Warenhaus.jpg. Clearly, the real reason for the presence of these non-Free images on Misplaced Pages as little to do with their superior quality, and very much to do with people not looking up the categories on Commons (we have not one, but two categories devoted to Soviet prisoners of War in the Second World War, on Commons).

LessHeard vanU, a superficially better presentation of a topic does not authorise a violation of the policies. Furthermore, your implicit assumption that Commons holds a limited sample of images of the Holocaust and related topics is not verified, the sample covers a long period of time and many locations. Rama (talk) 15:17, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

User:StuckWithMeFan113

StuckWithMeFan113 (talk · contribs) has received over 3 dozen warnings over the last couple of months related to non-free image uploads (lack of licensing info, lack of fair use rationales, etc). He has not responded to any of these and merely continued the behavior, receiving a final warning from User:TreasuryTag on January 1. The behavior has still not stopped; he continues even today to upload non-free images without any license info or rationales, and has even taken to falsely uploading them as {{PD-self}} in order to avoid WP:NFCC (see , , , , , , , , and for examples). Since TreasuryTag's final warning was not followed up on, I believe a block is in order. --IllaZilla (talk) 18:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I wonder, he may be a sockpuppet of User:Stuckwithmefan112. That user account also had similar warnings and was blocked twice by User:feyday then indefinite for ignoring image upload warnings. I agree with your block decision. The block should be indefinite in my opinion. Minimac94 (talk) 19:20, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Obvious sock, endorse indefinite block. I will do it myself unless anyone has any objections (or it hasn't been done already). SGGH 19:42, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I have blocked for one week. Do we stretch to an indef block as per the previous account? SGGH 19:44, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Yep. Upgraded to indef. He'll be back. Jclemens (talk) 19:55, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

This is NOT a legal threat

Please note that I am going to vandalise your website, and you may not legally block me for doing so. Ha! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.217.155 (talk) 19:20, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I blocked the user without warning. he came straight here, stated his intention to vandalise and knowledge of policy, then proceded to threaten to rape an established contributor. However, given that I gave no warning I would appreciate a review of this block. Blood Red Sandman 19:25, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Support People with those attitudes don't deserve warning, and I was thinking of filing an abuse report with his ISP. Rodhullandemu 19:27, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Definitely a good block. I was in the process of doing the same. you beat me to it. Resolute 19:29, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

31 hours seems light, considering the threat of personal violence made at User talk:Moonriddengirl. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:29, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I see ZScout ramped it up to 72 hours. Blueboy96 19:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

He made an abusive unblock request, which I rolled back. I also shut off his talk page. Any available checkusers may want to have a look--something tells me this isn't a new user. Blueboy96 19:31, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. However, I also suspect it may be a proxy. Blood Red Sandman 19:34, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Endorse - They seem to know what they're doing I concur most likely not new. No warning was needed IMHO. Jeffrey Mall (talk • contribs) - 19:37, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

This is a seasoned troll who will be on a new IP in five minutes. Please RBI. I got fined £1,000,000,000,000 earlier. See my talk page for more history. -- zzuuzz 19:34, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't stop us checking out the IPs for proxies and shutting them down as appropriate. Blood Red Sandman 19:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

They are not proxies, but he uses both BT and Tiscali - two of the largest dynamic ranges in the UK. If you want more of his IPs there's a link on my talk page (as well as my block log) to some more. -- zzuuzz 19:43, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Nonsensical idiocy. Perfect block. Agree with Blood Red Sandman. SGGH 19:40, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

If you send me $100, I will be more than happy to assume all risk and consequence should that fine not be paid.  ;) Resolute 19:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Threats of violence

Should pages such as this be deleted as threats of violence? Or should the account be blocked because of that plus the dumb edit to Beeblerox's userpage? ╟─TreasuryTag►duumvirate─╢ 19:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Pretty obvious troll, I think. Blocked indef, userpage speedied. Blueboy96 19:37, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Word of advice, don't bother talking to the "Colonel Sanders vandal," it's a complete waste of time. I'm going to re-block with talk page and email revoked. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:01, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks like Peter Symonds already got it. He'll be back in a week or so, make the same idiotic edits, and get blocked again in about five minutes... Beeblebrox (talk) 20:03, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Breeblebrox, you might wanna mulligan on that estimate; he hit thrice yesterday. —Jeremy 09:25, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Indiana Department of Homeland Security copyright infringement of wikipedia material

In the pdf produced by the Indiana Department of Homeland Security for racial profiling, the vocabulary section on page 3/4 is copied from wikipedia, yet there is no attribution to Misplaced Pages or even a mention of it(wikipedia)...

The purpose of the pdf is "To research positions related to the topic of racial profiling post September 11, 2001 with a primary focus on citizens of Middle Eastern descent, and to give an informative speech."

It uses 7 terms from Misplaced Pages: Racial Profiling, USA PATRIOT Act, Bigotry, Internment, Terrorism, Counter-terrorism, The War on Terrorism.

The original discussion is at Misplaced Pages:Village_pump (miscellaneous)#Indiana Department of Homeland Security Racial Profiling pdf.Smallman12q (talk) 19:40, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Would WP:OTRS be able to help you out here? - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 11:33, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

No, not really. Any contributor can contact them about this, though only a substantial contributor of content can take real action. The steps to take are at Misplaced Pages:Mirrors and forks#Non-compliance process. --Moonriddengirl 12:38, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

User:Simonpettersen

I've just indeffed Simonpettersen (talk · contribs) for uploading this file after a final warning not to upload copyright images to Misplaced Pages. This editor has a long history of uploading copyrighted images without an appropriate licence or fair use rationale. Suggest that any unblock is conditional upon a ban from uploading images to Misplaced Pages. Mjroots (talk) 19:54, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Good call. Suspect that any other images he's uploaded should be deleted as well, given his disregard for copyright. Blueboy96 20:05, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Encyclopedist / Ulises Heureaux

Encyclopedist was unbanned by an admin, Alison, under his account Ulises. Said account was blocked again in January 2010 because of abusive alternate accounts, even though he didn't do anything in a while. So what do you do now, start a wheel war? Loopknow (talk) 20:02, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but could you please clarify your question? Both Encyclopedist (talk · contribs) and Ulises Heureaux (talk · contribs) are currently blocked indefinitely. -FASTILY 20:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, it's our old friend Grawp. Blocked indef. Blueboy96 20:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Bad Block

Could someone have a look at this bad block on Domer, he has asked Elonka to provide diffs to show the reason for his probation, I too have asked and also One Night in Hackney has asked. Now he has been blocked for alleged harassment when all he was doing was to ask a reasonable request for clarification per WP:ADMIN. I am unable to follow this thread this evening as I must go to work but some eyes would be appreciated. BigDunc 20:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

It appears the block came after Domer said he would start an RfC on Elonka, which Domer said he was seeking answers before he took this step as is required. BigDunc 20:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

This seems like another issue that could've been avoided with WP:JDI. People tend to continue answering a stubborn user and then call them disruptive when they continue to respond. This doesn't jive with harassment in my mind. Harassment is when you do your part and stop responding, and the user continues posting to try to get a reaction. That's not what happened here, as far as I can see. Letting Domer have the last word would've quelled this, I think. Equazcion 20:28, 30 Jan 2010 (UTC)

Actually, if you look at his talkpage, you'll see that didn't work -- I stopped responding, but then even after his block was up, he made a beeline to my talkpage to continue the demands, with the support of his ally BigDunc. Anyway, if any other admins care to review the situation though, here are related threads:

• User talk:Domer48#January 2010
• User talk:Domer48#History
• User talk:Domer48#Remove this unsupportable block
• User talk:Elonka#FYI

In a nutshell: Domer48 was placed on ArbCom Enforcement probation in November 2009, requiring him to adhere to 1RR on all articles in the Troubles topic area. He violated this once in December, and again about a week ago, both of which incidents resulted in a 1-week block. During the most recent one, Domer started wikilawyering up a storm, insisting that the original probation was invalid, and demanding diffs to prove that he was edit-warring. Dozens of diffs have been provided, by multiple admins (see above threads), but no matter what's provided, he keeps saying it's not enough. He has been strongly encouraged to pursue this through a more proper venue, such as filing a thread at WP:AE and requesting that the probation be reviewed, but instead, he's just been camping on my talkpage and repeating over and over that he wants diffs. Considering his long block log already, the latest block seems appropriate to me. I invite other uninvolved admins to review the situation and offer their own opinions. --Elonka 20:34, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Most of the posts on your talk page appear to be from BigDunc, not Domer. Regardless, that thread grew largely due to your willingness to participate in it. The user was then blocked for "harassing" you. Once you give an answer you feel is satisfactory and you don't want to be bothered anymore, I think you should stop responding. Users shouldn't be blocked because they were continuing an exchange with a willing participant, IMO. I've seen this kind of situation before and I find it illogical how much it's an accepted consequence of stubborn behavior around here. Equazcion 20:49, 30 Jan 2010 (UTC)

One runs out of options quickly when a user will not get the point. A good idea in such a situation can be to draw outside scrutiny to the situation. Chillum 22:14, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

IMHO, Domer48 should be unblocked, as he wasn't vandalizing Elonka's userpage. Having said that, he should discontinue contacting Elonka at her talkpage. GoodDay (talk) 23:00, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Following a request by Domer48 by email I have reviewed the above matter briefly. The emplacement of the probation by Elonka and their subsequent involvement in enforcing it is a matter for dispute resolution and I have no opinion to give. I am, however, concerned that continued efforts by Domer48 to seek an explanation they find satisfactory is construed as "harassment", and the comment that since failing to receive a response they consider valid they were contemplating opening an RfC is a "threat". I am seriously perturbed that actions and comments that define the steps necessary in attempting dispute resolution have been conflated into a blockable offence. Given that Domer48 may have been upset at the probation and the earlier block under its auspices it might be suggested the language used by the editor could be incivil, but this is not the case either. The only action by Domer48 that appears to justify the second block (for 2 weeks) is persistence in returning to the issue and arguing the rationales provided are unsound - but surely that is an aspect of dispute resolution; seeking specific responses where provided answers are considered unsatisfactory? - which is something that has divided opinion in relation to content discussions.
My view is that Domer48's block for "harassment" should be lifted and that they should be permitted to continue editing while they proceed to the next level of dispute resolution (compiling and filing a RfC). Since they are using that process it should be understood that Domer48 has no reason to continue contacting Elonka over this matter, and I would expect Domer48 undertake not to do so. I also think that admins need to recognise that their actions will, from time to time, be strongly disputed and as long as no obvious violation of policy is committed that they need to allow aggrieved parties to exhaust all avenues of DR without resort to sanctions, especially in the first instance but also as a third party. It is part of the remit of sysops involved in enacting probations, restrictions and sanctions - the incidental aptitude for being a lightning rod.
In conclusion I feel this is a bad block, in that it represents actions deemed appropriate per Dispute Resolution as being "harassment" and "threat"s and should be lifted. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Upon further review, I note that the current block is not in response to the proposed filing of an RfC. However, my general points relating to terming DR processes (the questioning of rationales and dissatisfaction with the answers previously provided) as harassment stands. I have struck as much of my earlier comment as possible without diminishing the focus. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you think I did the right thing with this SPI case?

I filed an SPI case both concerning Nintendofan5000 and Bambifan101 who are both blocked for sock puppetry in terms of similarities with edits and both usernames containing the word "fan" and a number at the end.

Look at the SPI case for more information. Thanks. Micro-Cruzer (talk) 20:34, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

You are also a sockpuppet and I claim my five pounds. -- zzuuzz 20:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I think this user might be worth a look as a sock of Pickbothmanlol as requested in the SPI case that he just submitted. Renny The Bat (talk) 20:44, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks like the joke is on you. Micro-Cruzer (talk) 20:49, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Both blocked as sockpuppets. -- zzuuzz 20:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

So wait, a sockpuppet reported another sockpuppet? Thanks guys! JBsupreme (talk) 21:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

It seems to happen a lot around here. I guess we should be thankful they don't make them smarter. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 11:46, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

As well as Plaxico-ing himself, this puppeteer also has a habit of impersonating and joe jobbing other people with their SPIs I assume it's probably User:Pickbothmanlol, but you never know. -- zzuuzz 13:04, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

PIPony22

PIPony22 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Would some administrator take a look at User:PIPony22's contribution history? They seem to have mostly spent their time marking various userpages with sockpuppet templates referring to themselves, but they also just created the inappropriate page Misplaced Pages:Don't edit with a iPad, which seems to indicate that they aren't here to be constructive. Thanks in advance. — Gavia immer (talk) 20:48, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

None of the edits by this user make any sense to me, and some are outright disruptive. I am indefinitely blocking the user as a disruption-only account until a good explanation for any of this is forthcoming.  Sandstein  22:15, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I've deleted the three userpages he made (two as U2 and a third as G3; the latter is the userpage of a fallow account from late '06). I'm also nuking the category he made; I think this is XXV or PBML. —Jeremy 23:21, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Patel

Would anyone mind giving this page a look-over? I think I've reverted it to the cleanest version, but the page was a mess when I came across it, so I'm unsure. HalfShadow 21:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

BlackJack evading block

BlackJack (talk · contribs), who was recently blocked for abusing sockpuppets, is evading his block by editing as an IP (86.148.207.61 (talk · contribs)). He has also made what may be considered a legal threat. Could an admin please block this IP. Thanks in advance. --88.110.56.81 (talk) 22:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Blocked 1w. —Jeremy 23:15, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Joe Chill needs to chill

He keeps calling another user a dick, a troll or a combination thereof. See . Pcap ping 23:20, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, Lulu always assumes bad faith to me in software AfD and I'm sick of it. Being civil to him got me nowhere. If someone can get Lulu to stop, I'll stop. Joe Chill (talk) 23:23, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

You know what, Joe Chill and I have had our differences in the past. In fact, we still do. But it is pretty obvious that the person he is interacting with is indeed trolling. Sad. JBsupreme (talk) 23:23, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The subject line of this ANI is probably a true enough statement. WP:CIVIL is a good idea, definitely. But I don't see anything actionable or that needs wider involvement, just from a few snippy comments on my user talk page. I appreciate the concern shown by Pcap, but I have thick skin, and no harm was done. LotLE×talk 23:32, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Stop skipping over your uncivil comments. Joe Chill (talk) 23:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

If someone wants to stick some template urging civility onto my talk page, I acknowledge that some of my comments were also on the snippy side. So please, some uninvolved party, slap a template on my user talk, and on Joe Chill's, then we'll hold hands and sing songs together. Ever mellow, LotLE×talk 23:35, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Like "I assume Joe Chill's boilerplate failure to find (by not looking for) sources is some sort of automated response, since it never varies based on AfD topic.", "Sorry, Joe Chill, I simply do not believe you have looked for sources prior to most of those rapid and boilerplate !votes.", "Always voting delete to every topic, with no discussion of the nature of the software, nor any indication whatsoever that you have looked for sources, and always using exactly the same boilerplate phrase, looks a lot more like WP:POINT or WP:SOAPBOX than it does like good faith.", "Have you considered looking in Google searches, or in a library, rather than only under rocks in your backyard?!", "If you would state relevant evidence on AfD discussions, rather than snotty pokes at editors who find notability of topics you nominate, it would be a lot easier to imagine good faith on your part." (I didn't say anything bad in AfD except my opinions which are different than his), "Your behavior is unseemly and unhelpful. Just saying "ignore notability" is not a useful AfD approach.", and "It's just so cute, Joe Chill, how you follow me around on AfD, claiming that every indication of notability of a topic magically doesn't count, no matter how prominent... and that the only criteria should be WP:IDONTLIKEIT, which prompts deletion of all software articles." (on an article that I nominated). Pcap, remember when he called you one of the rabid software deletionists? Joe Chill (talk) 23:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a fan of templates either. Here's an idea. Reduce the drama, drop the name calling, drop the unnecessary personal attacks, and let everyone go about their business. Joe Chill has his own interpretation of notability (as we all do) and I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that he performs due diligence before nominating something for deletion or commenting in a deletion debate. Fair ??? JBsupreme (talk) 23:48, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

If Lulu assumes bad faith at me again in software AfDs, I'm bringing it to ANI including the uncivil comments that I quoted above. Joe Chill (talk) 23:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Btw. According to WP:CIVIL, ANI is the appropriate place for:

• Administrator's Noticeboard Incidents page. For death threats, racist attacks, threats of violence, legal threats, and other cases where immediate action is required, use the Administrator's Noticeboard Incidents page to contact the site's admins.

Somehow I think that Joe Chill calling me a "dick" or me accusing him of WP:POINT are... well, not exactly death threats. Even sarcasm--of which I am guilty--is, well, not exactly violence, y'know. Happy joy joy. LotLE×talk 00:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, it also says: "When incivility rises to the level of disruption, personal attacks, harassment or outing, blocks may be employed, as explained in those policies." YMMV. Pcap ping 00:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you honestly see no problem with his comments? Joe Chill (talk) 00:17, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... I guess it's true that Joe revealed my birth name, "Dr. Richard (Dick) Troll". :-). LotLE×talk 00:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I guess you know now that Joe is sensitive to accusations of bad faith and lack of due diligence, even if you have no problems with name calling. Now that you've both let all the poisons hatch out , perhaps we can lower the DEFCON level and resume a more civil dialogue at (software) AfDs... Pcap ping 01:02, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I have had interactions with Mr Chill on several occasions, mostly unpleasant. For instance when I have complained on his talk page about particularly bad "cant find sources" deletion nominations. The entries are routinely dismissed as "stupid question" etc, and I'm a dick. He is also doing some fine work, but some sort of cool down would be appreciated - Power.corrupts (talk) 00:58, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I never called you a dick. I called them stupid questions because the answers to all of them were that we have different opinions on notability, but you never accepted that answer so you kept on posting on my talk page. Joe Chill (talk) 01:01, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I would be in full support of any block of Joe Chill at this current time. Despite the work he has done on Misplaced Pages, he has also shown evidence of losing his cool time after time (this is not the first time this user has fired WP:NPA-violating comments at other users. Take the "mostly unpleasant" interactions that Power.corrupts claims to have had with this user as a further example of this sort of thing happening in the past). Joe Chill has, at times, been a great contributor, but when one repeatedly calls another editor along the lines of "Dickish bad-faith asumming troll," that user has taken things way too far.--_Me 01:27, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

The only other user that I said personal attacks to was Michig after he called me a troll, reverted my edits, and told me to leave Misplaced Pages. All of the admins in ANI sided with Michig despite all of my diffs. Any other times, they weren't personal attacks but people for some reason thought that they were. I never said anything bad to Power Corrupts. All that I said to Power as that his questions were stupid. The reason for that was that all of the questions where variations of the first one which I already answered. Why is that people always get mad at me and never users like Michig and Lulu who start it by being uncivil? The first thing that starts disputes between me and other others is that they can't accept the fact that I have different opinions on notability. Joe Chill (talk) 01:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm about to pour a nice glass of scotch, I invite you all to join me. JBsupreme (talk) 01:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Best to end it this way. Pcap ping 02:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Sockpuppet

After User:Silverlife was blocked indefinitely, he used his account before that one (per his user page) which is User:RegularBreaker. Joe Chill (talk) 00:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Mike he is on to us. Five Ton Sockpuppet (talk) 01:08, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Im not an admin, but a better place for this thread would be at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations. Although taking a quick look at the edits of both usernames, I don't see any evidence that the accounts were used wrongly. I didn't see any over lapping edits on any articles. Other than what Silverlife had typed on his page, which isn't evidence enough for my taste, I don't see how they are linked at all.--Jojhutton (talk) 01:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

From an earlier edit on his user page: "Silverlife is RegularBreaker: Reloaded." He even admitted that RegularBreaker was his previous account in an ANI topic. He attacked me on my talk page, two zodiac groups on his user page, a bunch of editors on the ANI thread, he attacked Hell in a Bucket, and he used an IP to re-add the personal attacks about zodiac groups. It doesn't matter if he's going by the rules now because he is going against his indefinite block which is against the rules. Joe Chill (talk) 01:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Just like you did with Lulu when you called him a dick? Five Ton Sockpuppet (talk) 01:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, sockpuppet. There is actually WP:DICK and Lulu did keep on attacking me in AfD when all that I did was have different opinions than him. Joe Chill (talk) 01:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Joe Chill. Anyways I filed an SPI case like Jojhutton suggested for you. Five Ton Sockpuppet (talk) 01:17, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Thats the best way to deal with it. Most likely it is the same account, but I urge you all to remember, that its real easy for someone to say that they are someone else. All they have to do is type it and click save. Its real easy. I saw a thread here a few weeks ago, where that happened. the two accounts were completly unrelated, but a long time and respected user was accused of sockpuppetry, simply becausethe new account claimed to be the other. It was a real mess for that user, but it was all worked out in the end. All I am saying is that we must not assume that two accounts are related, until it is proven.--Jojhutton (talk) 01:23, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Surprise, surprise!! –MuZemike 02:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I did not do anything matter to you or your life. So please stop (mess with me). You're not welcomed to type about me in every corner.

Reason: I don't want to mess with you, because... (If I say anything related-to-you, you'll say that I "personally attack". And I'm truly really tired, I won't say)

Thank you so much, Joe Chill, if you can do. Take a time and enjoy your life. R•B_talk 05:06, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

What? Joe Chill (talk) 05:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Who knows? I'd not worry about it. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 11:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

MarshalN20

I'm here again with this hounding case which doesn't seem to stop. Toddst1 was in charge I believe but he's on a wikibreak.

On the past September I noticed MarshalN20 and Unknown Lupus were making offensive comments on the Diablada talk page such as this: , , .

I asked them to stop but MarshalN20 reacted against me in a disproportionate aggressive manner. That led to a Mediation Cabal which now is on formal mediation and also to a RfC on MarshalN20's conduct, nothing helped to solve the situation.

On the formal mediation the mediator is supposed to be Ryan Postlethwaite but I think he perhaps forgot to watchlist the page or he was too busy so he didn't mention anything else after our opening statements. So I wrote him to check where he was and yes I was offended by the attitude MarshalN20 had in his opening statement so I pointed that out. I dedicated to edit other articles meanwhile and having a workshop prepared for the mediation, which I consider is a legitimate civil way to deal with the situation. MarshalN20, was spying on me and got upset about that (regardless he also had not only one but 1, 2 , 3 sandboxes for purposes like this) and went to complain on Ryan's talk page which I consider was disrespectful so I asked him to stop , then I tried to reason with this person on his talk page where I repeatedly asked him to avoid conflict till Ryan gets some time, but he then started gaming to collect material against me, so even though the only comment I ever made after months of dealing with this user was saying that he was acting like a dog marking his territory on articles and biting others, for which I said twice that if that offended him I apologize, now he's inflating all this and using diffs that doesn't show or prove anything at all with this RfC against me, RfCs are not meant to be used as personal attacks or harassment besides the case against him is already on formal mediation. I had to stand this person humiliating me, insulting me for my nationality for months and he threatened me to continue doing such things :

I can and will keep using whatever wording pleases me whenever I do my writing.

I really consider this is a very serious case of harassment which needs to be solved immediately, for MarshalN20 and Unknown Lupus, and of course I'd be willing to be subject of evaluation if I ever acted wrong, but I consider that in Marshaln20's case it has been a long path of misconduct, observe his attitude from 2008 , he also he threatened to physically hurt other users , he recurred to outing, he canvassed to fight against me and I seriously think this needs to be addressed by the administrators soon. Erebedhel - Talk 01:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

P.S. I forgot to place the ANI notice before, now I did it. Erebedhel - Talk 05:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion

Hmm, it seems that posting this on Saturday night wasn't such a good idea, nobody seems on. But anyway, I suppose that Marshal will read the notice and post a reply here, I'd advise to check carefully the diffs provided by both of us. Perhaps today I'll have a hectic day so I'm not sure if I can follow the debate here (but I'll try to check whenever I can). But I think this has a simple solution as I asked Marshal which is just try to avoid any more confrontation till we get any response from the mediation, I already asked there and I hope Ryan can have some more time. We don't have the same interests so I don't think there is any need to seek unnecessary confrontation. Can anybody just help me to make Marshal understand that at this point making more problem won't get anywhere, and keep an eye so we keep our word? I honestly don't want to have any more interaction with him till mediation starts but I don't consider I've ever done anything wrong to be virtually banned from Misplaced Pages just because Marshal's attitude towards me. Erebedhel - Talk 10:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment

• 1. So, I make an RfC in order to discuss your conduct in such a way that we can work out our problems (Because that's what an RfC is for: so that we can establish that there exists a problem with your attitude and that you should work in improving that problem); and in retaliation you poast an ANI?
• 2. I have not set anything in motion to "virtually ban" you from Misplaced Pages. An RfC is just to discuss your conduct, not to ban you.
• 3. Thus far, you're still proving that you have conduct problems. You take the slightest issue and turn it into an atomic bomb. I attempt to find a solution with you by creating an RfC in order to discuss your attitude, and yet you continue to mud-sling and keep accusing me of things that were done several months ago.
• 4. You simply do not know what happened between "EP" and "Selecciones de la Vida." You were not there. The final outcome of that case was that everyone had done something wrong. In other words, the situation didn't "punish" me because, as it was shown, everybody had been insulting and bothering each other.
• 5. I have never threatened to hurt another Wikipedian. All I said in that statement was that I don't like the lad and that I wouldn't like to see him in person. You're once again demonstrating that:
  • You make up things in your mind that are not there.
  • You like to create flashy arguments when people are trying to help work out a solution with you.
  • Instead of understanding why other Wikipedians are having problems with you, you solely focus on blaming us for the situation.
• 6. You called me a dog, you tell me I bite, and you tell me that I "mark my territory." All because I moved a bibliography section above the references. I don't need to "inflate" this because it already is bad.
• 7. I have sandboxes of my other works in progress. How is that bad? I'm working on the Diablada, translating the Pachacutec article into English, and attempting to summarize the Land Campaign of the War of the Pacific. Seriously, how is that bad? You're again demonstrating those 3 points I just made.
• 8. Everything you post in Misplaced Pages is available to the viewing of all users. I'm not "spying" on you. This is not a James Bond movie, and I don't have an agent number. However, that would be rather cool. Obviously, I'm interested in what you are doing in regards to the Diablada article. Nothing more.
• 9. I asked Ryan, our mediator, to evaluate what you were proposing to add into the article. Obviously, you don't have that material in your workshop in order to keep Misplaced Pages warm and cozy.
• 10. Finally: With everything Erebedhel keeps showing, particularly his demonstration of my "past bad actions," it demonstrates that this user is hounding me. I feel deeply harrassed by such actions which have no other intention but to disrupt my enjoyment of editing.--MarshalN20 | 14:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Off2riorob

Off2riorob (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I have previously expressed concerns about the behaviour of Off2riorob at the Wikiquette alert board and feel that attention from administrators may be warranted as the user continues to respond with hostility to honest criticism, for example by accusing me without evidence of sockpuppetry and stalking. (I am not "Nikolay S. Boriso", nor am I User:Short Brigade Harvester Boris, as Off2riorob implies; neither have I sought out confrontation with this user.)

In my Wikiquette alert (linked above), I noted that the user seemed to be continuing a disturbing history of edit warring and confrontational behaviour that had resulted in eight blocks in the span of several months. My concerns were seconded by Jusdafax, who had recently been on the receiving end of similarly confrontational behaviour. Looie496 closed the alert as resolved after "Off2riorob has acknowledged overreacting, and apologized for any offense."

In response to a question from User:Short Brigade Harvester Boris at BLP/N, regarding an ongoing incident in which a user characterised prominent climatologists as criminals, Off2riorob responded:

"That comment is a million miles away from Libel, you should respect other users comments even if you disagree with them, using weakly claimed libel to remove another users comment is disruptive to the editing environment, if you really think that something libelous has been posted, take it to ANI and see if you get any support to remove it, you should only touch another editors comments in very serious situation, otherwise, leave them alone"

WP:BLP makes quite clear that potential violations should be removed immediately, so I made the following comment:

"I agree completely with Short Brigade Harvester Boris: there's no question as to the target of this attack, and as such it clearly violates WP:BLP. I will remove the comment myself if necessary. I also share Boris's concerns that this board has become somewhat of a low-traffic corner of Misplaced Pages where at least one editor with a disturbing block history and ongoing behaviour issues regularly imposes (or attempts to impose) decisions."

I did not name the editor specifically, and I feel in any case that my concerns about the current state of BLP/N are sincere and well-founded, as evidenced by the behaviour I've observed and by what I view as a strange interpretation of WP:BLP (that potential violations must be reported to and discussed on ANI before removal), but Off2riorob immediately responded, accusing me of attacking him or her out of desire for retribution. Off2riorob placed a civility warning on my talk page. After I responded on the user's talk page, the apparent sockpuppetry and stalking accusations were made. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 02:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• It was completely clear that it was me he was talking about, if you don't want a civility warning you should not talk about other editors on discussion boards like that, I stand by my comments as correct.This report is also empty of any offense and is basically another attack on me. I would also like to point out that I have not mentioned any sockpuppetry. Off2riorob (talk) 02:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

How do you explain the diffthen? -- Why do you refer to the editor using another name? FormerIP (talk):50, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see, that is nothing to do with anybody it has somehow got pasted in from an email address I was working with, and relates to this article Nikolay_Sergeyevich_Borisov it has nothing to do with anything related to this. Off2riorob (talk) 02:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

OK. You can see how it might have been misunderstood, though? --FormerIP (talk) 02:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I only just saw it when you posted the link, I can see the point now, but I assure you it is nothing more than a coincidence. Off2riorob (talk) 03:01, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• What rules are you alleging were violated? -Rrius (talk) 02:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
• I'm having the same problem as well! Sir Floyd (talk) 03:04, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

All this is entirely too weird. How about everybody just drop it? Besides, it's Saturday night and we should be doing something more fun. Which I think I will go and do about right... now. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• ?? SBHB, while normally I feel you're on-target about most of what you say, this one's kinda making the little needle on my "????"-O-Meter go to about ....welll, maybe not eleven, but at least six. This looks to me like KCACO feels as though his concerns have been dismissed in the past, so I'd rather not do anything likely to incite the same reaction here. (Besides, it's now Sunday morning, so "fun" comes off the menu, to be replaced by any mild misery of your choice.) Now--to the original issue: KCACO, your interpretation of BLP is definitely closer to the mark; the comment in question, characterizing the climatologists as criminals, should absolutely be removed, unless it's sourced to the gills. O2RRob, you've been here long enough to know that--and ESPECIALLY w.r.t. the recent BLP-related kerfuffle, I'd think it behooves everyone to be extra-, EXTRA-careful with BLP questions. It may not meet the narrow legal definition of "libel" but it's definitely got no place in the article unless it's rigorously sourced--you can't just go around calling ppl "criminals" unless they're currently wearing prison jumpsuits. Finally: I'm withholding judgement on O2RRob's behaviour; however, I will say this much: O2RRob, I've seen several comments at AN/I and AN w.r.t this kind of behavior from you; while you can always dismiss one or two reports as random crankery, once we get to this point it might be time to consider taking some of these criticisms on-board. Just my own opinion, anyhow. GJC 11:29, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I just wanted to point out to you that the comment was not in the article but was expressed as a comment on the talkpage. My comment regarding the removal of content on the talkpage of the climate change article was in respect to the wider issue at that board and connected boards, it has become almost common practice there for editors to remove other editors posts for one reason or another and one editor has recently been restricted for that, what can I say about the criminal comment, I don't see it as desperately in need of removal and it wasn't removed and as yet it is still there. Actually I had replied about the issue just previously more privately to Boris on his talkpage here , you may want to look at that to get the whole picture. Off2riorob (talk) 12:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Logged out bot?

I just saw this at UAA. Is this a logged-out bot? The Thing // Talk // Contribs 03:55, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved – Link has been removed. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

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