Misplaced Pages

Talk:Casimir Pulaski: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 11:15, 1 March 2010 editLoosmark (talk | contribs)8,133 edits →Requested move (2)← Previous edit Revision as of 11:19, 1 March 2010 edit undoLoosmark (talk | contribs)8,133 edits →Requested move (2)Next edit →
Line 156: Line 156:


*'''STRONG Support''' The fact that the US Congressional Resolution passed last year granting him US citizenship did so under the name CASIMIR PULASKI should be sufficient evidence that in the ENGLISH speaking world, CASIMIR PULASKI is his name. Furthermore, I humbly suggest those for whom English is not a first language refrain from voting on issues of English usage on English wikipedia, just as those of us for whom Polish is not a first language respectfully refrain from voting on Polish language issues on Polish wikipedia. ] (]) 11:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC) *'''STRONG Support''' The fact that the US Congressional Resolution passed last year granting him US citizenship did so under the name CASIMIR PULASKI should be sufficient evidence that in the ENGLISH speaking world, CASIMIR PULASKI is his name. Furthermore, I humbly suggest those for whom English is not a first language refrain from voting on issues of English usage on English wikipedia, just as those of us for whom Polish is not a first language respectfully refrain from voting on Polish language issues on Polish wikipedia. ] (]) 11:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
: Those for whom English is not a first language cannot vote? Now isn't that a bit racist? ] 11:18, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Revision as of 11:19, 1 March 2010

WikiProject iconChicago Start‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Chicago, which aims to improve all articles or pages related to Chicago or the Chicago metropolitan area.ChicagoWikipedia:WikiProject ChicagoTemplate:WikiProject ChicagoChicago
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
???This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconBiography Start‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
WikiProject iconMilitary history: Biography / European / North America / Polish / United States / Early Modern / American Revolution C‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
CThis article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.
B checklist
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
  1. Referencing and citation: criterion not met
  2. Coverage and accuracy: criterion met
  3. Structure: criterion met
  4. Grammar and style: criterion met
  5. Supporting materials: criterion met
Associated task forces:
/ 
Taskforce icon
Military biography task force
Taskforce icon
European military history task force
Taskforce icon
North American military history task force
Taskforce icon
Polish military history task force
Taskforce icon
United States military history task force
Taskforce icon
Early Modern warfare task force (c. 1500 – c. 1800)
Taskforce icon
American Revolutionary War task force

Name

Why is this page under the name Casimir Pulaski while his name was Kazimierz Pułaski? His name was simplified by the Americans (like many names are), but he himself never used it AFAIK. For me it's like moving the Margaret Thatcher to Iron Lady... I'm moving this page to where it belongs. Halibutt 06:44, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Why? Because this is the English Misplaced Pages, and you'll find that his name has been written in English as Casimir Pulaski since the Revolutionary War. Perhaps you'll really move it back to where it belongs. Btw, the letter Ł does not exist in the English language either. Dr. Dan 14:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC) p.s. Margaret Thatcher to "Iron Lady" is not much of an analogy.
I'd say Casimir Pulaski makes more sense. English language Google results for "Casimir Pulaski" -day are manifold more numerous than English language results for "Kazimierz Pułaski" -day User:LaFoiblesse 2008-12-07 16:37 (GMT)
Amen. It's total bullshit that Poles who don't speak English as their first, second, or even third language are allowed to make decisions (ie, stuff the ballot box) as to what is the proper ENGLISH name for CASIMIR Pulaski on WP. Once again nationalism triumphs over accuracy and usability on WP. One of the many reason WP is hopelessly, fatally flawed. 68.73.93.130 (talk) 11:29, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
The hypocrisy around this issue is made manifest when you look up the POLISH WP entry for George Washington and discover that Polish WPians insist on spelling his name "Jerzy Waszyngton". Of course you'd never find an English speaker so arrogant as to tell Polish speakers how they should spell the name of the FATHER of OUR country. We understand that different languages use different spellings. Too bad certain Polish WPians here on English WP aren't as understanding and considerate. Moreover, it's too bad that WP allows them to ballot-stuff. 68.73.93.130 (talk) 18:28, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Fort Pulaski

I'm under the belief that Fort Pulaski was named after Kazimierz but I'm yet to find some information on that... I'm looking but if someone can find some solid info, please add it to this article (I've heard this while in Savannah - which is cited in the article). Also, we need a Fort Pulaski page. I've got royalty free images of the Fort so I can help there. JoeHenzi 03:45, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Some infos: http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?path=/HistoryArchaeology/AntebellumEra/Places-7&id=h-610
--Emax 00:33, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

A movie reference

As I recollect, there was a ship with his name in a movie "A year of the dragon", but I can't confirm it just now. I'm still putting the info on the page, since the movie is a cult and the name of the ship was crucial to the plot. Unregistered user (2005)

Birth and death dates

I reverted the changes to Pulaski's birth and death dates made by user User:64.107.1.95 even though they are sourced (in the edit summary), because:

  1. This user is a notorious vandal and puppeeter with a modus operandi of making subtle (and, so far, always incorrect) date changes to articles (among many other things -- see User:Dijxtra/Sock for details). It appears that he surfs the web for any source that contradicts commonly-accepted data -- dates in particular -- and adopts a mindless holy crusade to force Misplaced Pages to accept this data. Not conducive to my being comfortable about this, to being with.
  2. I have some questions about the source. Some of the language seems slightly less than scholarly ("Never before were so many errors made against one man as in the case of Pulaski," Pinkowski said. "He was a victim of corruption, lies, forgeries, trumped up charges, revisions of history and defamation of character."). And the Polish-American Journal is of a reputation unknown to me. Pinkowski may be correct, but for now I don't think we have enough verification to change the commonly-accepted dates. Herostratus 19:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Users like Herostratus keep on changing everything that's correct, vandals like that should not be allowed. This historian spent his lifetime on Pulaski and I would rather listen to him than to some wiki criminal like Herostratus.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.99.1.116 (talk • contribs)
So what is his birth date? OK, I understand that the day of the month is questionable, but two different years (1745 and 1746) are given in the article. The Cath. Encyc. and one of the other refs here say 1748. I have 2 dead-tree dictionaries here, one says 1748 with a "?", the other 1747. Oj kochany!--BillFlis 17:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
1745 and 1746: 4 March 1746 is stated up top in the Intro, then that is forgotten in the Bio section where instead two dates in March of 1745 are given. Then if one looks at the photo of the statue in Freedom Plaza, it reads: 1747. — RVJ (talk) 06:58, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus, leaning on oppose. —Nightstallion (?) 10:26, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Kazimierz Pułaski → Casimir Pulaski – Misplaced Pages policy is to prefer English or most common version of a name — Dhartung | Talk 20:56, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
No harm done. All may be repaired in due time. --Dhartung | Talk 07:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Ah, but Britannica actually says "English Casimir Pulaski"! Both sources agree what his name was in both languages, the only question is what goes in the title. --Dhartung | Talk 07:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Of course not; that would violate Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (common names). You will notice that his article is under the common English version of his name, Pope John Paul II. --Dhartung | Talk 14:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments
This is the English-language Misplaced Pages, the most common English transliteration is appropriate. "Casimir Pulaski" is the form used by almost all authoritative US sources: White House, Pulaski Co, GA, Library of Congress. Americans understand that it's originally a name in another language; most of the people celebrating "Casimir Pulaski Day" are Polish-Americans. --Dhartung | Talk 21:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Here are some Google Books (, , ) and Google Scholar (, , ) results. Olessi 22:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Monument in Baltimore

I just visited Baltimore and noticed a small park in passing where the Pulaski Highway intersects E. Fayette Street. There is a statue and a cannon there - and I think it is probably a monument to General Pulaski. Can someone in Baltimore check? Then we could add it to the list of Pulaski monuments/memorials. Dmbstudio 19:36, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

That is a memorial to soliders of the Spanish-American War, actually. There is a monument to Pulaski not to far away in Patterson Park. --Uac1530 (talk) 21:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh how underrated!

I've been meaning to revise the introduction but have not figured out a way to make it concise. For one it needs to be mentioned that Pulaski spent his own money to fund and organize many of his units. Secondly, the fact that he saved George Washington's life at the Battle of Brandywine fails to be mentioned here. Washington thought it notable and promoted Pulaski to Brigadier General of the American Cavalry. Third, his quote `I came here, where freedom is being defended, to serve it, and to live or die for it.' should be incorporated into the article. Lastly, I think (if passed by the House and President Bush) his honorary citizenship should be mentioned in the opening summary seeing as there have only been seven people to be ever recognized in this way.

I would like to see all these things included but would like some feedback and discussion regarding the inclusion of this information. Should the opening summary be extended, should new sections be added? Thanks in advance. JRWalko 23:38, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Without doubt this article, as a start class, should be expanded. If you would like to work on it, WP:PWNB would sure help.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  00:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

"Full Holiday"

I'm in Illinois right now, the first Monday in March, in school. There is no full holiday! THE KC (talk) 15:29, 3 March 2008 (UTC).

By informal survey, many in Illinois could care less and finds Pulaski day to be another day to find day care when the schools are closed for no discernibly good reason.SRICE13 (TALK | EDITS) 03:00, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

The "Father of American Cavalry"

Is designating Pulaski, "the father of American cavalry" replete with the WP:Weasel "sometimes called" appropriate, even with a citation by Leszek Szymański? It should at least be formulated grammatically, if included. Dr. Dan (talk) 02:12, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Marching Backwards?

I suspect that the following paragraph is Wikiality and I believe it should be stricken from this article:

"On his day there is a Pulaski Day parade on Fifth Avenue in New York City (). The parade is known for its nontraditional approach. Participants in the parade walk backwards to commemorate Pulaski's brave march backwards into the city of Savannah. He marched backwards into the city to confuse the British who thought that he was retreating."

Or, perhaps a link to this page is required: http://en.wikipedia.org/Polish_Jokes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.102.62.3 (talk) 15:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

This is indeed strange, I removed this unreferenced claim (leaving the info about the existence of the parade itself, of course).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:37, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Please Move This Back to Casimir Pulaski

Honestly, why is the English wikipedia overrun by foreigners telling native English-speakers how to spell things in English? Why does the English wikipedia have an entry with that L with a line through it, a letter that doesn't exist in English?

This is nuts. Somebody has to put a stop to these people. The argument was very clearly laid out above on the talk page. Seriously. Let's get this done.


--Uac1530 (talk) 21:40, 15 May 2009 (UTC) A great admirer of Casimir Pulaski.

Yes, very clearly leaning on oppose to Casimir. See also Misplaced Pages:Diacritics and don't forget to check this.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 00:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi guys
I AGREE. There is no point in forcing Polish pronounciation upon foreigners.Stanazollo (talk) 17:16, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Amen. Everyone in the English speaking world spells it Casimir. Even the bill just passed in the US House granting him US citizenship does so, something which, none of the Polish supporters of *Kazimierz* has bothered to add to the article, btw. The fact that non-native English speakers are allowed to keep using English wikipedia to fight out their cultural and political battles is one of the main reasons WP sux. It's quite pathetic. 99.140.226.40 (talk) 19:57, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
It is ridiculous to say this is beating a dead horse. The move discussion occurred in 2006. What's more, the "leans opposed" used on closing it was silly once you look at the arguments. The people in favour of moving it say that this is the English language Wiki, so the most common version in English should be used. Since Casimir is the most common in English, it follows that the title should use it. Most people opposing it did so on the basis that Casimir is also used in the lead so it doesn't matter. A few other resorted to the argument that changing this spelling could result in removing the diacritical marks from other pages. Now, Piotr refers us to WP:Diacritics. This issue has little to do with diacritical marks as only the middle "l" is offers choice between diacritical and non-diacritrical versions; the main point of contention is "Casimir" versus "Kazimierz". At any rate, the guideline begins begins, "Misplaced Pages does not decide what characters are to be used in the name of an article's subject; English usage does." It further states in that paragraph, "Follow the general usage in English reliable sources in each case, whatever characters may or may not be used in them." What we should be trying to so here is figure out which one is more common in English. In doing so, it should be borne in mind that the more authentic spelling tends to be surprising to native speakers of English. -Rrius (talk) 05:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Here's another vote for English Misplaced Pages using, uh, English. 76.197.234.170 (talk) 23:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Requested move (2)

The request to rename this article to Casimir Pulaski has been carried out.
If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Kazimierz Pułaski → Casimir Pulaski — Pulaski is far better known in English by the first name "Casimir", and English usage uniformly provides for an "l" rather than "ł" in his last name. This issue was debated in 2006, when one editor said the presence of the name "Casimir Pulaski" somehow means the page shouldn't be moved to it. That is nonsensical, yet it was relied on by most editors opposing the move. Another editor said because he was a Pole, we should use a Polish spelling. That is not how Misplaced Pages works. Article titles are based on the most common usage in English. One editor takes this an issue about diacritical marks for all Polish-name articles. That is also a nonsense. Under the guidelines for both article titles and for use of diacritics, common English usage is the guide. For the subject of this article, the regular "l" is clearly more common. -Rrius (talk) 00:28, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

....and the country he was born in is called Polski, not Poland, but guess what?... this is ENGLISH wikipedia. In English, the country is spelled POLAND and the name is spelled CASIMIR PULASKI. 99.140.200.115 (talk) 11:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
And what exactly have the names of the contries to do with the names of persons?  Dr. Loosmark  11:15, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
  • STRONG Support The fact that the US Congressional Resolution passed last year granting him US citizenship did so under the name CASIMIR PULASKI should be sufficient evidence that in the ENGLISH speaking world, CASIMIR PULASKI is his name. Furthermore, I humbly suggest those for whom English is not a first language refrain from voting on issues of English usage on English wikipedia, just as those of us for whom Polish is not a first language respectfully refrain from voting on Polish language issues on Polish wikipedia. 99.140.200.115 (talk) 11:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Those for whom English is not a first language cannot vote? Now isn't that a bit racist?  Dr. Loosmark  11:18, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Categories: