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Revision as of 14:17, 28 May 2010 editArcticocean (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Extended confirmed users46,263 edits →Result concerning Dr. Dan: Comment on civility sanctions.← Previous edit Revision as of 14:48, 28 May 2010 edit undoLoosmark (talk | contribs)8,133 edits →Comments by LoosmarkNext edit →
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Skapperod's comments above are a bit unreal. Dan has not ''"discussed the question whether it is appropriate to continue a discussion that belongs to the article's talk page"'' as Skapperod claims above. Had he really wanted to do that he could have just said something one the lines that he feels the discussion belongs on the other talk page. Instead he launched a completely and totally unprovoked ad hominem attack calling people "discredited", "banned", "compromised", "sockpuppeteer" etc. Skapperod's interpretation of what the Arbcom wanted or did not want doesn't make sense either, please check Coren's comments on the WikiProject Poland page: , . But of course now Skapperod knows better what the ArbCom intended than a sitting arbitrator... Skapperod's comments above are a bit unreal. Dan has not ''"discussed the question whether it is appropriate to continue a discussion that belongs to the article's talk page"'' as Skapperod claims above. Had he really wanted to do that he could have just said something one the lines that he feels the discussion belongs on the other talk page. Instead he launched a completely and totally unprovoked ad hominem attack calling people "discredited", "banned", "compromised", "sockpuppeteer" etc. Skapperod's interpretation of what the Arbcom wanted or did not want doesn't make sense either, please check Coren's comments on the WikiProject Poland page: , . But of course now Skapperod knows better what the ArbCom intended than a sitting arbitrator...


Skapperod's claim above that Piotrus "was desysopped" is also false. Piotrus voluntary resigned his tools as soon as concerns about his actions were raised back then. Finally I have deep concerns about Skapperod's attempt to paint the ad hominem attack as some sort of "satirical" semi-innocent comment. It sets a dangerous precedent and frankly it's the last thing that topic area needs. ] 11:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC) Skapperod's claim above that Piotrus "was desysopped" is also false. Piotrus voluntary resigned his tools as soon as concerns about his actions were raised back then. Finally I have deep concerns about Skapperod's attempt to paint the ad hominem attack as some sort of "satirical" semi-innocent comment. It sets a dangerous precedent and frankly it's the last thing that topic area needs. ] 11:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Further comment: I find it interesting that Skapperod, Varsovian and Deacon of Pndapetzim, all known for countless disputes with Polish editors in the past, all came here trying to get Dan off the hook by trying to divert attention on Piotrus. The reality of the matter is that the incident is in no way Piotrus' fault, he did not even mention Dan in any way shape or form, nothing - Dan started a totally unprovoked bashing of Piotrus and that is not acceptable. Period. I understand it's hard to defend Dan's ad hominem but come on blaming Piotrus seems to be a real Alice in wonderland theory. ] 14:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


=====Comments by Varsovian===== =====Comments by Varsovian=====

Revision as of 14:48, 28 May 2010

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    Divot

    Divot blocked for 55 hours, placed on final notice, by AGK.

    Request concerning Divot

    User requesting enforcement
    Grandmaster 08:17, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Divot (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    # Warning by Brandmeister (talk · contribs)
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    revert limitation
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Despite the warning about AA2 sanctions, Divot (talk · contribs) shows no intention to stop edit warring in the article about the Khojaly Massacre. For the time being, he has already made 11 rvs in this article, first removing the mention of a source, then making edits doubting its authenticity. He was advised to take the issue to WP:RSN before making any reverts or POV edits, but made no efforts to resolve the dispute via WP:DR. After the issue was taken to WP:RSN by his opponents, he still is not willing to wait for the outcome of the discussion, but continues revert warring. 11 reverts is too much by any standards, and I believe that arbitration enforcement is necessary in this case to stop disruption and get the issue resolved by regular dispute resolution practices. It is also worth taking a look at the short history of Divot's contribution in en:wiki, which includes inter alia revert warring on Georgian alphabet. Grandmaster 08:17, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Divot

    Statement by Divot

    Comments by others about the request concerning Divot

    • I've protected the page due to the ongoing edit warring. This is to stop the problem from escalating further and should not be seen as precluding further sanctions. Stifle (talk) 11:58, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

    Result concerning Divot

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
    • An obvious case of edit warring. Divot is blocked for 55 hours for protracted edit warring. He is also placed on formal notice of the discretionary sanctions provision of the AA2 case, so that in the event of future violations he can be more severely sanctioned. AGK 12:33, 19 May 2010 (UTC)


    Future Perfect at Sunrise

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
    Request denied. No breach of any arbitration remedy has been specified. Try WP:WQA or WP:AN3. Stifle (talk) 19:03, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Future Perfect at Sunrise

    User requesting enforcement
    Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 18:23, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Good Faith, 3RR (have decided to add 3RR), and for "gaming the system". I have been punished twice for 3RR (including one half-baked 3RR. It takes two to tango. How come Fut Perf hasn't been sanctioned? Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 19:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    # Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Olympics and prior discussion at Template_talk:Summer_Olympic_stadia: Not only does Fut Perf make it clear that there is no Good Faith when I am concerned. The lack of Good Faith rubs off on everybody else involved. Every single time I get in to a discussion on WP. Fut Perf becomes involved. She screams WP:NPOV, WP:V, WP:OR and WP:TRUTH at the drop of a hat. Discredits my well researched citations claiming that I have mis-cited. From my point-of-view I feel like Fut Perf is gaming the system. Here on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Olympics I have provided a reference and I am told in a round about way that the reference cannot be accepted because of lack of good faith and not just by Fut Perf. So I provided another secondary reference that backed up the first secondary reference and which was also backed up by a further two primary references. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 18:52, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    . Virtually nothing that I contributed to the article is there. I spent hours editing on this article. I contributed some very useful references. All reversed by Fut Perf. I was also accused of plagiarism despite bending over backwards using a Thesaurus to change as many of the words as possible. The claim of plagiarism was just another ploy to delete all of my contributions. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 20:12, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    Re: Gaming the system. Fut Perf has been using the system against me. Discussion with Fut Perf is usually futile. Despite my extensive patience I am usually given instant reversals and my references are rarely respected due to Lack of Good Faith. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 20:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    On this discussion I was accused of being a racist. For what? What did I say that was racist? Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 20:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    (None provided.)
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    I will stand by your recommendation. I am not revert-warring. At least, I am not doing so intentionally. But Fut Perf keeps discrediting my hard work and making me redo all the work again and again. I've received two 3RR penalties and Fut Perf has got off scot-free! Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 18:52, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    What I would like is for Fut Perf to at least have a decent conversation with me before reverting my edits. My edits are always reverted and I am never given a plain English-language reason why. I am just accused with violating every rule on WP after instant reversal. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 18:52, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    (None provided.)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise.

    Discussion concerning Future Perfect at Sunrise

    Statement by Future Perfect at Sunrise

    Comments by others about the request concerning Future Perfect at Sunrise

    Have amended request to 3RR to avoid the closure of this request. I have been penalised twice for 3RR by Fut Perf who is gaming the system to get rid of me. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 20:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

    Result concerning Future Perfect at Sunrise

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    The request is not actionable, because it cites no remedy that could be enforced and no diffs of problematic behavior. This is a matter for dispute resolution, for which WP:AE is not a forum. However, the reference to Ali Pasha in the request violates Nipsonanomhmata's topic ban from that article; for this, he is blocked for 24 h.  Sandstein  20:28, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

    For clarity, Nipsonamomhmata's topic ban from Ali Pasha was logged here on May 13. EdJohnston (talk) 21:13, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
    The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

    Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg

    Frivolous request, not actionable
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Request concerning Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg

    User requesting enforcement
    Divot (talk) 02:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Brandmeister (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Grandmaster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), John Vandenberg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    1. Brandmeister , , , ,
    2. Grandmaster , ,
    3. John Vandenberg
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    block
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    The fact is there is no independent media, which would be writing about adopted a document of the House of Representatives of Massachusetts (see JOURNAL OF THE HOUSE. Thursday, February 25, 2010, discussion and commentary. If Massachusetts takes a political decision, it must be published in the American media. Moreover, it is an international document. But the opponents were returned information with reference to the Azerbaijani media. They do not want to understand that about the official document adopted by Massachusetts are required to report American media, not the Azerbaijani newspaper. When I put the information that this only view of Azerbaijani media, and on the website of Massachusetts there is nothing about this, they began to delete this information (John Vandenberg , Grandmaster ) Divot (talk) 02:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

    Discussion concerning Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg

    Statement by Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg

    Comments by others about the request concerning Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg

    This is forum shopping by a user who was (apparently properly) reverted by multiple other users, and eventually blocked for disruption related to the behavior he's complaining about. I recommend close, no behavior actually subject to AE sanctions involved. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 03:02, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


    To Georgewilliamherbert: you must be mistaken to judge the content instead of conduct of the editors. There is a clear violation of rules by other editors too and it has to be addressed. If 1 disrupts, it doesn't justify others. You could have "filed" this request yourself, if you were against disruption. At least 2 of the above users: Grandmaster and Brandmeister has also been spotted multiple times in similar conduct and were also banned, unlike Divot's past. Aregakn (talk) 03:23, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

    I reviewed the situation. In my opinion,
    • There was disruption, but it was by Divot, who may be sincere but is acting wrongly in this instance under Misplaced Pages policy.
    • There is no violation of a Misplaced Pages arbitration decision which has occurred here, so there is nothing to enforce here at this noticeboard.
    I understand why you and Divot are upset, but you need to calm down and listen to the criticism people have made of the behavior. You're doing something wrong. Trying to escalate a larger abuse case, in response to being told you're wrong, warned you're wrong, blocked for being persistently wrong, is not a good way to accomplish things on Misplaced Pages.
    Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 03:24, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
    I'm not really upset because of what you might think but because of some manner of judgement (If I was, I'd be reverting too). Please review what I wrote and consider the behavior of the above editors as well. If you think there was no revert violation by them, then state it that way. But accusing Divot only is not the way. If the other editors noticed a disruptive way of editing, they should have dealt with it as intructed in Wiki. I think you'd agree. Aregakn (talk) 03:31, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
    On first review, they did deal with it the way you are supposed to on Misplaced Pages. Reverted and discussed on the talk page; when that failed and Divot kept disrupting, took it here to this page (see case above against Divot, halfway up the page). Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 03:38, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
    Are you telling, that if I revert edits and bring it to the discussion, and the other editor continue editing the same thing (reverting), my further reverts will be justified? Aregakn (talk) 03:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

    What Divot is reporting may not be actionable (except for Brandmeister) but see my remark here, there were more reverts than he reports, example for John Vandenberg when there in fact was 3 reverts. Also see the comment here by AGK. Nothing excuse Divot, he should have known better. On the other hand, I find Brandmeister overal contribution actionable. He had more than reasonable revert and Divot and Brandmeister should have both been sanctioned, on Karabakh Khanate for example, he reverted without giving specifics as to why the version was innacurate. I tried pleasing both sides by keeping Shusha and replaced Azeri with Turkic and not Iranian or Caucasus, and he reverted me twice and he never bothered using the talkpage. Even his first edit recently was a revert if we check the history of the article. Ionidasz (talk) 05:55, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

    Result concerning Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg

    As noted by Georgewilliamherbert, this is a frivolous request and is closed as not actionable. The reported reverts to Khojaly Massacre appear to reflect a content dispute, which cannot be resolved through arbitration enforcement. It is not explained how they violate any applicable conduct norm. Divot was properly blocked by AGK (talk · contribs) for his part in that edit war and warned that he may be subject to discretionary sanctions if he continues disrupting Misplaced Pages. Such disruption may also include continued forum shopping.  Sandstein  05:36, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

    NickCT

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning NickCT

    User requesting enforcement
    Breein1007 (talk) 22:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    NickCT (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    # Personal attack calling me a bigot when I wasn't even talking to him.
    1. Failure to AGF, accusing an editor of gaming the system by POV pushing under the disguise of some good faith edits.
    2. More incivility, after I asked him to AGF because he drew conclusions about the intentions of another editor and accused them of making valid changes only to mask supposed "POV pushing".
    3. It gets as petty as following me around to other pages where he is completely uninvolved and attacking me with no clear purpose.
    4. Edit warring Mossad as the perpetrator after consensus was reached 2 months ago (NickCT was part of the discussion on the talk page that reached this consensus) to only label them as a suspected perp.
    5. Failure to AGF again, starting his comment with an accusation that "Breein is likely going to edit war this".
    6. Personal attack against me in response to an admin warning him not to use personal attacks.
    7. More of above.
    8. Personal attack against me after I submitted a valid (CU was warranted), albeit incorrect SPI.
    9. Edit warring - removing content two months after consensus called to keep it
    10. Edit warring - same as above
    11. After I warned him against removing sourced content against consensus (there was a long discussion on the talk page of the article and the agreement was the the sentence should not be removed - two months later he came back and deleted it again), he responded that if I submit an AE report it will be frivolous. I'm only including this one to show that I tried to warn him recently about the possibility of bringing this to AE, but he has continued with his disruptive and hostile behaviour since that warning.
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    # Warning by Shuki (talk · contribs) Edit warring
    1. Warning by Shuki (talk · contribs) 3RR Violation
    2. Warning by 2over0 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Edit warring
    3. Warning by Philip Baird Shearer (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Personal attacks
    4. Warning by Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) civility/AGF/NPA
    5. Blocked by Ged UK (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Personal attacks/Harassment
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    To be honest I'm not sure what is appropriate here. I have only encountered this negative behaviour in the Israeli-Arab area on Misplaced Pages, so maybe a topic ban would help. I don't know if he behaves similarly in other topic areas. If so, maybe an overall block is necessary. Either way, I trust that admins will be able to determine an appropriate way to guide NickCT to better editing habits.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    NickCT and I have a fairly long history, and we have had our share of bickering in the past. I have tried to avoid interacting with him because the past has proven that the two of us do not get along. He was previously blocked for harassing me with personal attacks, and the diff of the warnings and block of that are noted above. For a while, we stayed away from each other. Recently, our paths have crossed again and his personal attacks and harassment have resurfaced. It is highly frustrating and difficult for me to edit the encyclopedia and make positive contributions or attempt to collaborate with other editors when he butts in and interrupts with personal attacks wherever possible. It has gotten so bad that he has even followed me around to other user's talk pages to hound me (the diff is above). Not only are the personal attacks, assumptions of bad faith, and harassment disruptive, but they have led me to notice that he has been edit warring again. The most troubling edit warring is the instances where he has come back to articles after several months to edit war against consensus that he was originally part of attaining.

    I encourage everyone to consider this case after reading the following sections of ARBPIA: Decorum, Editorial process, Editors reminded.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning NickCT

    Statement by NickCT

    Comments by others about the request concerning NickCT

    It would have been helpful if this had been focused on recent behavior - some of the diffs are from December - but I agree with PhilKnight's block based on his two replies to you on Talk:Israel and the apartheid analogy in the last two days - and . Those were clearly inappropriate behavior on his part ( WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL ) and entirely appropriate to bring to a noticeboard. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:37, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

    • Agree with the block. I have a different take than George as to what was listed -- Some sysops are fine just seeing recent diffs. But others would like to see a longer-term pattern of behavior. The above diffs should have satisfied both approaches, and I would suggest that George's well-meaning remark not be understood to reflect the approach all sysops will take. Reflecting both recent diffs, and longer-term diffs, is still IMHO the best approach, as it covers the spectrum of sysop preferences.--Epeefleche (talk) 01:05, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
      • Hmm. Useful feedback. Let me refocus a bit. It would have helped if the diffs were sorted into clearly labeled recent and historical lists, so we could see the current incident clearly and then the historical context. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 03:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
    • I appreciate the fast response Phil, thank you. But to be honest, I was hoping to see some discussion first. While I understand that there isn't much discussion needed to determine that Nick was incivil and sent multiple personal attacks my way, and that a block is deserved after previous warnings and blocks, I still think this case deserves added attention. My reason is that I don't think a 48 hour block will reverse the disturbing edit warring, consensus-undermining removal of content, and complete opposition to collaboration, especially since the block was specifically given for the personal attacks. Can you Phil, or any other admins, please take a look and comment on the edit warring? In all honesty, I'd rather Nick keep berating me but stop edit warring and going against consensus. I'm here to improve the encyclopedia, so if it's a choice of being insulted and having good articles or having someone play nice but continue edit warring and deleting sourced content, I would choose the first one. Obviously the ideal is to fix both though... Breein1007 (talk) 01:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
      • I think it's on the record that he went way too far this time and has a history of having done so in the past several times as well. I hope he won't continue it, but the next admins along if he does should be able to take it from here. It might help to discuss it more on his talk page, specifically what was wrong etc, to try and defuse it though. Georgewilliamherbert (talk)

    Result concerning NickCT

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    Blocked 48 hours. PhilKnight (talk) 22:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

    Dr. Dan

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Dr. Dan

    User requesting enforcement
    Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Dr. Dan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren#General restriction & Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren# Discretionary sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1 & - uncivil, bad faith, personal attacks (discussing editors) and thus creating unfriendly atmosphere (in particular, language like "compromised, sockpuppeteer", "highly discredited and banned". Please note that this edit was after a while removed by an editor who recognized it as a personal attack:
    2 - not as uncivil, but still involves unnecessary commentary about my person ("the Prokonsul is banned from participating at that forum")
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1 Warning by Ioeth (talk · contribs)
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    I am not fond of asking for an editors to be blocked. Perhaps an indef restriction on discussing other editors (unless they have started to discuss him first) would be better (why indef - see below). If it can be shown that I or anybody else has a habit of making similar comments about Dr. Dan, I would support such a restriction being two-sided (that said, I do not believe this is a case, and I would ask for anybody who would like to make such a point to start their own new AE thread).
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Please note that this is not some exceptional slip - Dr. Dan was placed on the restriction in the first place because such comments are a continuing part of his behavior. In fact, this behavior has led to at least two editors leaving or vastly reducing their activity on that project: , . I cannot speak for Nihil Novi, but speaking for myself, such comments as noted above certainly don't encourage me to keep contributing to this project. All I am asking is that the "Comment on content, not on the contributor." policy is enforced. Thank you,
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Dr. Dan

    Statement by Dr. Dan

    Comments by others about the request concerning Dr. Dan

    • It was I who advised Piotrus to file an Arbitration enforcement request in relation to this incident, so I will recuse from formally taking action. But my primary comment here will be to say that I do not think comments such as this to be acceptable. AGK 23:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
    • Some of the diffs cited above illustrate Dr. Dan's style of contributing to discussions. He is given to sarcasm and ad-hominem attacks, to intimidation and blackmail, to verbosity that conveys little substantive content but that may impress naive or inattentive readers who confuse prolixity with profundity. An uncivil attempt by him to challenge an opponent may be found here: . Nihil novi (talk) 08:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
    Comments by Skäpperöd
    Regarding Dan's comments about Piotrus
    • According to Piotrus' request above, Dan made a PA by discussing editors (not content). In fact, Dan discussed the question whether it is appropriate to continue a discussion that belongs to the article's talk page at the Poland noticeboard for the only reason to allow Piotrus to participate. That argument has merit and is not a PA. If arbcom had wanted Piotrus to participate in discussions at article talk pages, they would have unbanned him for these talk pages and not just for the Poland board.
    • It is neither bad faith, nor uncivil, nor a PA to state that Piotrus is discredited and banned, because he is. In the final decision of the recent EEML arbcom case, he was desysopped, admonished for disruption, blocked and banned from topic areas he caused disruption in. To that add the prior arbcom cases which were decided in dubio pro Piotro because the evidence that led to his conviction in the EEML case was not yet available then.
    Regarding Dan's comments about Nihil novi
    • That Dan addressed Nn as "compromised, sockpuppeteer" does not sound like Dan is just throwing out allegations for fun. Either, Dan has proof, or Dan mistook Nn for someone else. If the latter is the case, I am confident that he will withdraw the allegations once he is made aware, if the former is true however I am awaiting Dan substantiating the claim.
    • The "satirical" part of Dan's statement (the "boorish" remark) was actually a rebuttal of a PA of Nn: "Your gratuitous advice to "calm down" shows that your are as great a boor as you are a bore." Dan was right to ignore the PA when it was made, but he is also in his rights to point out that the absence of further such PAs is not due to Piotrus' involvement, but rather to Nn refraining from continuing making them. Skäpperöd (talk) 10:29, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
    Comments by Loosmark

    Skapperod's comments above are a bit unreal. Dan has not "discussed the question whether it is appropriate to continue a discussion that belongs to the article's talk page" as Skapperod claims above. Had he really wanted to do that he could have just said something one the lines that he feels the discussion belongs on the other talk page. Instead he launched a completely and totally unprovoked ad hominem attack calling people "discredited", "banned", "compromised", "sockpuppeteer" etc. Skapperod's interpretation of what the Arbcom wanted or did not want doesn't make sense either, please check Coren's comments on the WikiProject Poland page: , . But of course now Skapperod knows better what the ArbCom intended than a sitting arbitrator...

    Skapperod's claim above that Piotrus "was desysopped" is also false. Piotrus voluntary resigned his tools as soon as concerns about his actions were raised back then. Finally I have deep concerns about Skapperod's attempt to paint the ad hominem attack as some sort of "satirical" semi-innocent comment. It sets a dangerous precedent and frankly it's the last thing that topic area needs.  Dr. Loosmark  11:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

    Further comment: I find it interesting that Skapperod, Varsovian and Deacon of Pndapetzim, all known for countless disputes with Polish editors in the past, all came here trying to get Dan off the hook by trying to divert attention on Piotrus. The reality of the matter is that the incident is in no way Piotrus' fault, he did not even mention Dan in any way shape or form, nothing - Dan started a totally unprovoked bashing of Piotrus and that is not acceptable. Period. I understand it's hard to defend Dan's ad hominem but come on blaming Piotrus seems to be a real Alice in wonderland theory.  Dr. Loosmark  14:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

    Comments by Varsovian

    I'm holding off on my full comments until I see Dr Dan's reply. However, I do find it interesting that after he has been "banned from articles about Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about same, widely construed, for one year" he is within one year engaging in discussion about whether the subject of an article should be described as wholly or partly Polish. Is Polish nationality not connected with Eastern Europe? Varsovian (talk) 11:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

    Comments by Deacon of Pnpadetzim

    Piotrus' complaint here is in violation of his topic ban... "Piotrus (talk · contribs) is topic banned from articles about Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about same, widely construed, for one year. This ban is consecutive to any editing ban."Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern_European_mailing_list#Piotrus_topic_banned He still has most of this to serve. Piotrus' ban from this kind of thing was not negligence on ArbCom's part ... it was precisely to give the community a break from this kind of forum-shopping. To illustrate, the warning posted noted by Piotrus above comes from 2007. If Dr. Dan is to get a censure for his words--and even this would be a way over-the-top intervention--he should at least be warned. AE listing is complete overkill (and an example of the kind of escalatory tendencies which have caused so many problems in the area). So, a block for Piotrus, and closure of this thread. If an admin wishes to review Dr Dan's "incivility" independently, he should be encouraged to do so; but this thread and Piotrus' failure to deal with his "complaint" in the spirit of collegiality shows that, despite his three month ban, it is still unlikely that Piotrus is interested in anything more than getting one of his "enemies" punished. Very disappointing. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:01, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

    Result concerning Dr. Dan

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.