Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 22:47, 7 November 2010

The Misplaced Pages philosophy can be summed up thusly: "Experts are scum." For some reason people who spend 40 years learning everything they can about, say, the Peloponnesian War -- and indeed, advancing the body of human knowledge -- get all pissy when their contributions are edited away by Randy in Boise who heard somewhere that sword-wielding skeletons were involved. And they get downright irate when asked politely to engage in discourse with Randy until the sword-skeleton theory can be incorporated into the article without passing judgment.

—Lore Sjöberg, from "The Misplaced Pages FAQK"

This, the funniest thing I have seen on wikipedia, was stolen from DreamGuy

This editor will not be accepting the edit reviewer rights or having anything to do with "pending changes" - all that is changing are the rules and uses concerning them. Ultimately, it is going to lead to and immense amount of trouble and/or kill "The Encyclopedia any one can edit? and more recently

And in 5 years of Wikipediaring - this has been my favourite edit . The trouble is, I feel I may have spoilt the fun of someone similar to myself.

File:Animalibrí.gif

Old messages are at:

• User talk:Giano II/archive 1 (From Oct 2004)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 2 (From Jan 2005)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 3 (From July 2005)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 4 (From Jan 2006)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 5 (From July 2006)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 6 (From Jan 2007)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 7 (From July 2007)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 8 (From Jan 2008)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 9 (From July 2008)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 10 (From Jan 2009)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 11 (From July 2009)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 12 (From Jan 2010)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 13 (From July 2010)

Essays and thoughts:

• A few thoughts on writing Featured Articles
• A few thoughts on Misplaced Pages (unfinished)
• One of the reasons I seldom make proper edits these days. and it seems many others too

Pages that might be interesting to edit and improve - help yourself!

List of Dukes of Osuna

Please leave new messages below

Mick

As someone who has been on the receiving end of Mick's (you know which Mick I'm guessing) editing style from time to time, it might be useful for anyone who is taking his "side" in recent discussions, to let us know what good he actually does around here, in terms of article improvement.

He's good at turning up at AfDs apparently, and from edits on the Northern Ireland article talk page, he's good at supplying walls of text and slightly, slightly paranoid rants. Inbetween, he allegedly does some edits to articles.

If someone could weed out what good he does, and gets him to stick to that, that might be an improvement. Otherwise he's just proving to be offputting to anyone else editing articles. WikiuserNI (talk) 10:42, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

• How dare you come here talking about sides in such a manner. It's all this perenial talk and taking of sides which creates Misplaced Pages's problems. I have no idea what "good" he does, I have seen nothing proven either way. The point is that indeff bans should not be based on the opinions of who happens to be online and loudest at a certain time and shouting about on ANI. I have seen editors banned as a consequence of such actions deliberatly decided when it's known all their supporters and friends will be safely tucked up in bed. ANI has become a kangeroo court and it's is a far from just court. Misplaced Pages's editors are far too fond of passing sentence before proving a crime has been committed. I agree, there is a certain amusing irony that McNee is to be executed by the very sword he has used so often, but that does not make it correct, proper or a credit to the project. Those that want to see the back of him should take the matter to arbitration, which is the nearest thing Misplaced Pages has to a fair hearing.  Giacomo  12:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

• Just out of curiosity, why did you want Scott to go the extra mile? You said arbitration is "the nearest thing Misplaced Pages has to a fair hearing"; why shouldn't that process overturn the block? Ncmvocalist (talk) 15:55, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

No reason at all why it should not and no reason at all why it may not ban him for ever. However, there is every reason why he should not be blocked to satisfy a clamouirng lynch mob whipped up on ANI.  Giacomo  16:28, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I think ANI is a preferrable way to sanction tendentious WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT POV-pushing editors rather than prolong the agony of editors working in an area to have to present evidence, follow a case, and somehow remain sane for weeks. Even without the arbitration request, that sort of editing can put people off the article space forever, if not for a long time. But all of this is irrelevant to this case so I'm obviously digressing.

He's been unblocked by Scott. I think we need more people to go the extra mile (except in cases of vandalism and the problem I just described); in fact, I wish you were around to persuade more people in the way you did with Scott. A few admins get extremely territorial over certain blocks that they make; they refuse to amend/lift such blocks themselves, and they make the situation worse by refusing to let others absent an appeal to the Community or Committee. They also know that nobody wants to spend their time on-wiki with an arbitration request (so that becomes the unfortunate incentive for admins to not do anything in those situations - see also Mick's comments prior to being unblocked and this response to the unblock). Anyway, I appreciate the time you took in this case. Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:16, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

• I had not noticed that. Sandstein will just have to get over himself and realise he is not a one man Arbitartion committee, but an admin the same as all the others. If Scot Mac does not retract (and he's not the type to do that) then Sandstein can take McNee to arbitration and I will watch the case with interest, but at least he will have a fairer hearing than he did being lynched on ANI. I have lots of ideas for a fastrac Arb service, with more sort of elected junbior arbs sitting in 3s like magistates hearing this sort of thing, but with the "office" unreasonably demanding volunteers identify themselves - I doubt much will change in the current climate as there will be too few intelligent people wishing to identify themselves.  Giacomo  17:48, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

• but with the "office" unreasonably demanding volunteers identify themselves - I doubt much will change in the current climate as there will be too few intelligent people wishing to identify themselves. Indeed, I noticed that vexing issue pop up at Brad's talk; I'm still pondering on how that could be addressed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 18:52, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

It could be shelved rather than addressed, by having a legion of junior arbs (long term proven, but elected editors, without any magical CU and OS powers) who hear smaller case in 3s (perhaps a senior arb could chair them) and get through half the boring low grade stuff (people like Mr McNee for instance who are problematical rather than criminal) - similar to magistrates and circuit judges rather than Supreme Judges - this would speed the process up, stop the ANI lynchings and stupid RFCs and have some sort of ordered justice system, rather than the mayhem of pot-luck we have at present.  Giacomo  19:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I've always believed Misplaced Pages could do with a little more "transparently chosen" power-users, rather than relying on the arbitrary metric of the "who turns up". I mean we have absurd elections for ombudsmen, who constitute half a committee, that makes non-binding recommendations to another committee, and crats who have very limited powers. Ridiculous. And then we've got the choice between filing an arbitration that will take ten weeks to be resolved, or filing a report at ANI and hoping for the best (while ten hours are wasted in screeds of repetitive talk and politicking). Much better if we said, "admins shall not block any regular user for any more than 24 hours". If you think a block longer than that is required, then you block for 24 hours and file a report with the discipline committee, whose five duty members will pronounce within that same 24 hours. Not too hard really. --Scott Mac 00:59, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Too hard for the clowns in charge of this circus though. Malleus Fatuorum 01:02, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The problem with this circus is that no one much is in charge. Getting consensus for any significant change is impossible, and any attempt to lead change by arbcom or Jimbo would lead to howls of anti-authoritarian protest. I wonder if those who tore down our leaders from their elated pedestals considered that there's one thing worse than bad leadership, and that's no leadership. They got what they wished for - arbitrary mob rule, lynch mob justice and anarchy. Maybe someone should re-invent a "godking".--Scott Mac 01:31, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

A benevolent dictatorship is of course the best of all worlds, but sadly ultimate power ultimately corrupts, so it never works. Malleus Fatuorum 01:38, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

No, a structured democracy with accountable authority figures is the least worst option, but we don't have that. The question is whether a possibly corrupt and not terribly competent dictator with attendant oligarchy might have been marginally preferable to anarchy, mob-rule and legislative stagnation.--Scott Mac 01:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I guess we'll never know, because nothing can be changed here now. Malleus Fatuorum 02:24, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

We could always recruit a "real academic" to take change . Hahaha.--Scott Mac 01:35, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

• Yes, I saw that on WR yesterday too. I thought it of the bright spots of the day. I think we do have leadership or at least the basis of a leadership, the problem is that (like in RL) the people who are elected are often found to be not quite what they claim. Scot says "I wonder if those who tore down our leaders from their elated pedestals considered that there's one thing worse than bad leadership.." I don't agree with that, the leadership here two or three years ago was based in nepotism and it was failing, it was no torn down it committed suicide. I think we need a committee of Super-Arbs completely elected not "sort of elected but ultimately chosen" and then below them a body of elected junior arbs (without CU, OS) hearing content and lesser cases with clearly defined limits and powers regarding their sentencing. The super arbs could then have more time for the really serious cases - that overflow into RL and perhaps be an ultimate court of appeal. If you like Junior Arbs deal with motoring offences and shoplifting and the senior Arbs the murderers and traitors. Whatever, these are all things that could be thrashed out. The important thing is to take Misplaced Pages's justice out of the hands of the mob-of-the-moment and place it into elected and trusted hands.  Giacomo  09:04, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I did have an idea when the WP:ACPD was going down in flames that it could have actually gone ahead with everyone as a "member" as long as we had a bunch of people clerking and making sure the pages were really structured. We could have a wiki-in-wiki conference where we try and thresh out issues over, say, two months. The critical issue would be to have the relevant discussion pages really well-structured and navigable, and a bunch of folks ready to move off-topic reams of text to the talk pages. Maybe some time in January or February when all the northern hemisphere folks are toasty warm inside their houses and all the Australians are fleeing the stinking heat into nice airconditioned rooms.....Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps, I have rather lost faith in Misplaced Pages's ability to decide anything logical and useful. We are about to have ten plus new arbs who on appointment will all become carbon copies of the existing arbs - because such people are the only ones who will survive a voting system that is designed to appease the majority and then the handpicking of the survivors by Jimbo. We have a project whose leader jump on a bandwagon to condemn editors who don't say "prety please" but collaborate to defend a plagiarist. Not really a lot of hope - is there?  Giacomo  09:44, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh I dunno...wait at least and see who nominates (and is successful I suppose) Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:16, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

No, nothing will change becase every three votes "yes" can be countered by one vote "no." It is system designed by and for the peanut gallery.  Giacomo  11:33, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

No, not in the Arbcom elections; those are going to be counted as a straightforward "number of supports minus number of opposes" fashion this year, as I understand it. (Given that 11 arbs are now to be elected, there seems a reasonable chance that this year the number of vacancies will exceed the number of candidates, and every candidate will be elected. I'm half tempted.) – iridescent 11:44, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh that's interesting, I had not seen that. I mught stand too then, but that still leaves the matter of identifying oneself to the sinister sounding "office"!  Giacomo  11:46, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Belatedly

What a small place. Here I was a few days ago quietly enjoying your eloquent, and yes, elegant, arguments on behalf of Mick which you made to Scott and today, unexpectedly, I had to tell you personally. It was a high calibre and principled defence. Especially when undesirable editors are sometimes treated as almost disposable, replaceable and interchangeable. Almost like a commodity such as a burnt-out lightbulb. Thank you. Take care. Dr.K.  20:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Sadly, one can only defend the defensible. I'm sure if someone trawled through my edits they would find sentences and paragraphs with similarities to those in reference books - writing on narrow historical subjects with limited references that is inevitible. What is not inevitable and impossible to defend is manufacturing a huge volume of knowingly plagiarised "work" frequently submitted for awards and basking in the daily kudos. I shall make no comment on his behaviour when discovered. As you point out on Rlevse's page, I don't bear grudges, but neither will I ignore those who bring the project into huge disrepute - one has to be quite ruthless about that or Misplaced Pages is sunk. An Arb must surely know the difference between original own writing and plagiarising, if he doesn't then God help the project. I have not one jot of public sympathy or compassion for him - it's as black and white as that, this is not an area where one can afford a generosity of spirit. Arbs have to set an example, if they don't they must go.  Giacomo  21:15, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Giano, I didn't expect this response from you. My message had nothing to do with the Arb politics but since I replied on Rlevse's talk to you and I had mentioned Mick in my reply I thought it would be natural to express my thoughts regarding how you acted on Mick's behalf. But I guess the political temperature must be really high when coming to express my thanks for your defence of the underdog I get a lecture on Arb accountability. I also guess since you raised these points I have to reply, so I'll give it a shot. Naturally I agree that there are lessons to be learned from the latest debacle and that they have to be analysed and closely scrutinised for the good of the project. Political catharsis is a nasty process and it cannot be avoided. I understand your point regarding Mic vs Rlevse, as that of an underdog versus a privileged Arb who made some bad decisions and therefore must be criticised for reasons of transparency and accountability. I agree with this point too. Now, and ironically, in a belated fashion, I understand that my asking you to not turn my comment on perspective on Rlevse's talkpage into criticism of Rlevse could be seen as political interference on my part which in effect could be used to neutralise your criticism. At this stage I have to apologise to you. You see I am not a good politician. I thought that I could moderate a discussion on Rlevse's talkpage and keep the tones down due to what I perceived to be the tragic circumstances of a friend leaving the project. My eye was on the human element of the affair, as opposed to the political dimension. I was obviously wrong to reply to your comment because I did not mean to interfere in the exercise of political criticism. But I would not have needed to reply to your comment if I did not add my good wishes for Rlevse on his departure in the first place. Lesson learned. I should not have left a message on Rlevse's talkpage if I were not prepared to take political flack for it because by leaving a friendly message to a political figure it was taken as a political act. Talking about cynicism in politics. No room for human factors, or errors, there. Dr.K.  22:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

• Perhaps we all need to settle down and right a page. I may be looking for hidden meaning where there is none. What is that expression "when one has touched poison one should not touch one's friends" well it has probably lost something in translation, but I'm sure my meaning is clear.  Giacomo  22:52, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

• Coincidentally I was also thinking about writing a page. You are right. I should. Also thank you for the nice expression. It is very apt. I now came to realise what politics really entail. You have been enmeshed in this for such a long time your reaction is understandable. But I am sure that my respect for you as a friend and editor transcends all this. Politics be damned. Take care. Dr.K.  23:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi!

Hi Giacomo (Giano?) - yes, I'm back :), thoughy not nearly as active as I used to be. It's been a pretty hard year, so i'm not spending as much time online as I did. Grutness...wha? 09:13, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I bet it was the link I added to the Robert Lawson article :) I've been extending the article on Princes Street, Dunedin, one of the city's main streets. Grutness...wha? 09:26, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it was there I saw you. Fun writing that wasn't it? - a long time ago. I have given up writing on NZ subjcts as there are far more NZ editors now better qualified in all respects, but they are still on my watch list. Sorry to hear about your health (I had a look at your user page after I posted) do what I do, deal with stress by drinking wine and shouting at the screen.  Giacomo  10:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Good advice :) Grutness...wha? 11:29, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm with you on the drinking wine bit, but I try to avoid shouting at the screen. The spittle leaves ugly marks which show up all too well against the white of the edit window.-gadfium 18:12, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Not if you wear a surgical mask with a small hole (to permit a straw for the wine) while editing. Lots of editors do, in no way does it look odd.  Giacomo  19:18, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

If only I could afford the luxury model with the blinkers. It's much easier to refrain from changing the formulations used in the source avoid original research when you wear one of these. Hans Adler 20:44, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Only Warning

Under no circumstances are you to edit someone's post as you did here. You know better than this. If it happens again, you will be taken to ANI. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:59, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Under no circumstances collaspe one of my edits again - or indeed assume control of another editor's talk page! If you have a problem go to ANI - it will be my pleasure.  Giacomo  16:05, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I can collapse any edit I find that is unnecessary, highly POINTy and just plain rude, which all your edits are. WP:RTV and WP:STICK are in effect on Rlevse's talk page and all related pages to Rlevse. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 16:14, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I will comment on RLevse as I see fit. What you find "rude" or not rude is neither here nor there and of no interest to anyone else. Now I suggest that you mind your own business and run along and find something useful to do. I'm sure there is something you can be getting on with that will occupy you usefully. Don't come back here because the adults might start to get cross.  Giacomo  16:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Dude, I am probably older than you, so you can drop the "adults" Incivility thing. Do it again, I go to ANI and you wind up blocked again. It really makes no difference to me (or anyone else I bet) since you offer nothing to the community but a bad attitude and snarky comments. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 16:22, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Now I've seen it all. Homer's talk page says he's 29-- Giano, you child you ! "I go to ANI and you wind up blocked again" ... ah, the benefit of 20–20 hindsight. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:00, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

You haven't seen it all before you have seen this, followed by this. Quite a bit to read, but an eye-opener about the workings of Misplaced Pages. Some people are so immature that it's simply not funny. Hans Adler 20:09, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Now I've seen it all. Was Neutralhomer sanctioned in any way, Hans? Was Toddst1, for declining the unblock request? Or whoever it was that declined the second unblock request? Any ANI threads, RFCs, or RFARs? My guess is not. I have an idea: there should be a "reviewing unblock requests ban" for admins who have demonstrated that they don't have the required independence of mind. Desysopping is a big deal and difficult to get done (except when it's Geogre); but this is only one minor thing, yet extremely important for abused users. It shouldn't be very hard to get the ArbCom to institute such bans by simple motion. Bishonen | talk 23:22, 5 November 2010 (UTC).

Wouldn't it be simpler to make WP:COMPETENCE a policy and make infractions against it sanctionable? Of course there were no consequences against Neutralhomer:

• WP:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive200#IP user repeatedly removing WHOIS template from talk page (the first thread seemed to end well...)
• User_talk:Hans_Adler/Archive_3#RE: 94.192.38.247‎ (of course it was all my fault)
• WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive563#Ongoing Removal of Templates ("AAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!")
• WP:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive565#User:Neutralhomer - request supervision or close mentorship (long list of Neutralhomer threads at the end)

By the way the user was since blocked indefinitely, but of course continued editing under the static IP address with no further complications. Obviously removing a Whois template is much worse than block circumvention. Hans Adler 23:49, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Now, now, Herr Adler. Bear in mind that you must view what an experienced Wikipedian tells you as gospel. Me, for instance. I have informed you of the ideal course of action. Bishonen | talk 00:08, 6 November 2010 (UTC).

• Please go to ANI or indeed any place that's not here. I could suggest a few places, but my natural good manners prevent that. Reading the insults you have delivered here so far, it is quite clear that you you have some underlying issues. Please get them sorted for your own sake.  Giacomo  16:26, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

You want an ANI thread, you got it. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 16:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The petty party continues. Vodello (talk) 17:07, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Giano just can't help feeding the trolls. I find that threats on Talkpages should always be ignored. After a few days, when one is editing other threads of discussion, one can quietly blank the offensive attack.--Wetman (talk) 19:54, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm a compassionate person Wetman, I cannot bear to look at the starving millions without giving a little help. Howver, this is all designed to detract from the main points here - you don't need me to spell them out. I expect at this very minute certain people are trawling my edits for plagiarism or signs thereof - Misplaced Pages is suddenly a very ugly place, this has been brought about by giving vulgar supremacy to those whose priority is not content.  Giacomo  20:43, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Jimbo Wales publicly gave them priority on November 23, 2007. Bureaucrats on WP:RFA have expressed that "lack of content creation" is no longer a valid reason to oppose. The result is a lot of new admins that have exhibited anywhere between poor and zero knowledge of site policy and/or guidelines, from WP:N to even WP:MOS. Sometimes I wonder if the articles I expand are even going to be there in 18 months. They say anti-vandals are the ones discriminated against, even though their userpages are completely flooded with barnstars for having a profound ability to click an undo button to erase hours and hours of content creation. I haven't kept up with any attempts the usual suspects have made to have you banned over the past year or so, but I'm sure events like today that have been blown out of proportion have happened far too often.

Anyway, best of luck in today's petty party to try and get you banned or blocked for 3 months or wtfever. You are a net positive for Misplaced Pages, and it's unfortunate that this oligarchy is trying to erase the problematic confrontations they started in the first place so long ago. Vodello (talk) 23:48, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. You are very lucky to have a have "roll back" and "undo" botton, the twits on ANI removed mine ages ago for using it against them. We have to find our amusements here weherever we can. 09:15, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about the corrupt admins, but my 'amusement' is writing articles. :) Vodello (talk) 19:41, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Third from the right

That is mine, you can choose from or all of the others. LessHeard vanU (talk) 00:22, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Glenfiddich is acceptable, although a little pedestrian (the women like it). Laphroaig is an acquired taste (but well worth the sore heads spent acquiring it!). If you want easy quality, go for the Talisker - bit more pricey than the Glenfiddich but worth it. Chivas Regal is a blend, generally useful for watering plants, although this one is, I grant, better than most.--Scott Mac 01:27, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

• Thank you Scott. Laphroaig is my favourite.  Giacomo  09:17, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

  Oh. Right... Hmmmm... I suppose it is the Wikiway, thank the critic/reviewer and ignore the original content producer; best I stick to sysopping, then... LessHeard vanU (talk) 11:17, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

  Aha yes, quelle coincidence, I did not see your name up there. Whatever have I done to deserve such a generous gift? Thank you so much.  Giacomo  11:44, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

  As you well know, it is my payment for that disturbing "Arbs in their Underwear" link you sent me - now that I have remunerated you, can you please stop sending me that stuff!? LessHeard vanU (talk) 11:50, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

My wife is connected, distantly, to the clan that had the original distillery... That is the only reason. LessHeard vanU (talk) 01:32, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

One on the far left, we only sell to gullible American tourists, and the one on the far right is given to the inevitable Christmas-visiting Aunt who insists on adding pollutants like lemonade.--Scott Mac 01:34, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

What about Johnny Walker Blue Label? I've never tried it because I wasn't sure if it was worth the price. Otherwise, I think Japanese scotch and American bourbons are underappreciated. Cla68 (talk) 01:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Blends are seldom worth the price. Why on earth pay more for a bastardised malt. "Japanese scotch" sounds like a disease, and American bourbon is best kept unappreciated.--Scott Mac 01:36, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

This one has done well in several international competitions. Scotch is popular here in Japan. When I go to my favorite cigar bar in Shibuya, I'll often drink a number of imported single-malts, but I can never remember the names of the ones I liked the next day. I guess I need to start writing this stuff down before I leave the bar. I'll take your advice on the Blue Label. I assume if one wants to drink blended whiskey it might as well be Irish or Canadian. Cla68 (talk) 01:52, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I'd only drink a blend to economise. So if the blend costs more than the malt - take the malt. Oh, and if you must drink a cheap malt, there are plenty of Scottish ones. I'd no more drink Canadian than I'd buy a New York Yankees hat made in China ..... oh, wait.--Scott Mac 02:10, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

What no Lagavulin?  pablo 01:35, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

A question constantly asked in my house, and the answer is always the same: I drank it.--Scott Mac 01:37, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

It's a shame that import duties and taxes make good scotch so expensive in the states. Still, Bourbon isn't too bad, and cheap bourbon has the advantage of all those nasty fusel oils with their own peculiar intoxicating effects. Now there's an acquired taste!__WC XXXIII (talk) 02:58, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Plagiarism discussion from Rlevse TALK moved to WP:VP

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Village_pump#Plagiarism_vs._WP:SYN_and_WP:NOR

I see nothing there - which is not surprising. This is all to be swept under Misplaced Pages's extremely large and already long infested carpet and I have been asked not to comment further and I won't. It's immportant when picking challenges to pick those which one can win. If Rlevse returns and wants to be an Admin or an Arb again then I shall comment again. Most people can tell the difference between proper sourcing, attributing, copy pasting, plagiariasm and copyvio I don't think this is a huge problem, when caught ordinary editors can be advised and, if neccessary, given a slap on the wrist. The only real problem here was that Levse was an Arb and should have known better and after being caught his behaviour deteriorated, and that so many people were prepared to defend that behaviour, but this is what happens when content is placed secondary to administrationt and power grabbing.  Giacomo  00:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Fyi looks like it's here WP:Village_pump_(policy)#Plagiarism_vs._WP:SYN_and_WP:NOR--Cube lurker (talk) 00:26, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah! It looks like it yes, but I did not post to that page. There's no point dicussing it further as anyone who criticises him is to be condemned by Jimbo and the Arbcom for upsetting him. So let's leave his memory sainted and wait for his return before commenting again.  Giacomo  00:31, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

ANI

May I make a suggestion? Instead of edit warring over a thread closure (I have better things to do than block you for that), why don't you make a serious statement of what you perceive as the issue and what action you believe should be taken and see if the community agrees. As I understand it, we're talking about a three lines of plagiarised text which caused some embarrassment because it was in the TFA. Am I missing something? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:40, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

• Try reading the thread, rather than trying to close it. Oh and do not even try to threaten me. It hold no water.  Giacomo  20:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm not threatening you. I have better things to do, like get to the bottom of this (if the bottom is there to be found) rather than get into a pissing contest. You're advocating a complete ban from editing. Surely you realise that's completely unrealistic and totally disproportionate? I'm the second or third admin to close that thread, but maybe people would listen if you had a sensible suggestion. At the minute, the only thing coming from keeping the thread open is more drama. How is that benficial? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:51, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

No it is not completely unrealistic. He has habitually plagiarised, he needs mentoring and regulating, No one seems prepared to accept there si a problem. The FA Director himse;f has commented that the thread is valid, are you more qualified than he? Have you even read the thread or just been sent here frrom elsewhere? Giacomo  20:57, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I have read (and participated in) the thread and I haven't been sent by anybody. It's completely unrealistic in that it will never happen. You say he has "habitually plagiarised", is there any more plagiarism than what was discovered in the FA? More importantly, why must we have this discussion now when it's unknown if Rlevese is ever going to return to editing, much less reclaim their various bits and positions? Why not come up with a suggestion that's likely to generate serious discussion rather than just create more drama? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:06, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

If you really had done even a little homework you would already know the answer to this question, which is that the copyright and plagiarism problems appear to be widespread with Rlevse's articles. I realise that you and certain others like Sandstein want to avert your eyes from that and stifle healthy discussion of the issue by threatening blocks for disruption, but still. Malleus Fatuorum 21:23, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Rlevse Discussion at ANI

Giano: I'm not up for de-archiving or de-hatting this discussion at ANI:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Right.21_What.27s_going_on_with_RLevse.3F

But it appears that User:Gwen Gale has hatted/archived, and I'm not sure the discussion had actually run its course. Not sure where I personally stand at the moment on the larger issue, but was eager to see the discussion progress, in all its various fora. Saebvn (talk) 21:54, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree with her closure and summary there ("If Rlevse edits beyond tagging his own userspace, some admin action through community consensus may be needed"). If he's just tying up loose ends before he leaves for good, there's no point having the discussion; I imagine he knows it will re-start if and when he comes back. I do (strongly) disagree with protecting his talk page, but some things really aren't worth fighting over. – iridescent 21:57, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Leaning towards agreeing with you, Iridescent. Certainly if Rlevse comes back, some discussion will be needed. As he is now on a "break," it seems likely that he will return, at some point. ..."but some things really aren't worth fighting over." Agree, again, which is why I invited Giano to be bold, and why I'm likely not going to revisit the issue myself unless it ripens in the future. Sorry if that's shirking the issue (or being moderately indecisive). Saebvn (talk) 22:02, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I think you were quite bold Giano, but I don't think you were untowards. Only saying. Gwen Gale (talk) 22:10, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

The Arbcom have lied over this, they will continue to lie, assist him in the writing and postings of statements staements. Lock his page and unlock as he reqests and you, you fools will go along with it. Good luck Gwen - you will need it.  Giacomo  22:40, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

And it now appears you've un-archived and reactivated. Bold. Saebvn (talk) 22:45, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Bold and foolish; you've now broken the 3RR and can be blocked as such. . Just letting you know. GiftigerWunsch 22:47, 7 November 2010 (UTC)