Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:34, 23 February 2006

Welcome

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• How to edit a page
• Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
• Picture tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Naming conventions
• Manual of Style
• The Five Pillars of Misplaced Pages
• Merging, redirecting, and renaming pages
• If you're ready for the complete list of Misplaced Pages documentation, there's also Misplaced Pages:Topical index.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) will produce your name and the current date. You should always sign talk pages, but not articles. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Str1977 18:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Grammar

Hi, Dr. Dan. I came here to welcome you, as I saw your name showing up in red (a sign of a new user) on a page which was on my watchlist. However, when I pressed "save" there were two welcome messages; Str1977 had beaten me to it, so I rolled back my own one. Welcome, anyway. With regard to your comment on English grammar, you're quite right about "at the end of the 1960s". However, I don't think that particular phrase originally came from Str1977. (I admit I've only had the briefest glance at the article, but when you revert a particular edit, because of what you see as inaccuracy or bias, it's not at all unusual to reintroduce someone else's typo inadvertently.)

However, with regard to "neither" and "nor", I must disagree with you there. It's true that we don't use double negatives in English, in the sense of "I didn't see nobody". However, Hart's Rules says (pages 29 to 30):

'Neither' should be followed by 'nor', and 'either' by 'or':

Neither one thing nor the other.

I can neither read nor write.

Either Peter or James.

Note that when the alternatives form the singular subject of a sentence the verb should be in the singular:

Neither Oxford nor Reading has been represented.

In keeping with the last point (about the verb being in the singular), I changed it to "neither his son nor his son's mother WAS molested", where it has said "WERE molested". (I changed "the son" to "his son" because I found "the son" a little awkward.) However, I left the "nor", because it's certainly correct in British English, and I would say probably in American English as well, although I don't claim any expertise there.

(I lecture undergraduates about grammar, punctuation, and essay-writing skills, by the way, and I find Hart's Rules one of the most useful books I've ever bought.)

Hope you have fun at Misplaced Pages. Welcome, again. AnnH 00:50, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Looking back over my message, I see I have far too many "howevers" in close succession. I'd never accept that from my students, but it it was written in haste. It's past bedtime where I am. Good night! AnnH 00:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your greetings. I am wishing you a Merry Christmas as well. And a Happy New Year too. Str1977 18:25, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Happy Christmas from Ann, as well. Hope you're enjoying Misplaced Pages. By the way, your user name is still red. What about editing your user page just to tell other users a little bit about yourself or your interests? (Or if you want to keep your privacy, you can just put something like, "Hi, I'm Dr. Dan") That way, when you sign on talk pages, your user name will appear in blue rather than in red, so you'll look more like an "established" Wikipedian! Cheers, AnnH 00:11, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Your user page

Hello, Dr. Dan. As requested, I have uploaded your photo, and it is now on your user page. You can look at the coding and fiddle around with it to change the size, which is currently set at 300 px.

I made a pacifist user box at User:Dr. Dan/Pacifist. If you go to that page, and click on the "history" at the top, you can see different versions. If the one that's there at the moment isn't the one you like best, open an earlier one, click on "edit this page", and save that version. Then go back to your user page, and, if necessary refresh it to see the new box.

If you're confident, you could even try fiddling around to get some kind of combination.

I've also edited your user page to add you to the category of pacifist Wikipedians, as the original Template:User pacifist would have added you automatically. You'll see that at the bottom of the page you're listed as belonging to several categories — pro-life Wikipedians, native English-speaking Wikipedians, etc. By clicking on any of those categories, you can find other people who belong to the same group. It's a bit controversial at the moment, though, because some people have been contacting Wikipedians with whom they had had no prior contact, asking them to vote to keep or delete an article based on their views, and this has caused a lot of bad feeling. If you want to remove yourself from the pacifist category, just do so by editing the bottom of the page. You can't remove yourself from other categories without removing the user boxes, as they are built into the boxes.

Hope that helps. I'll be available again from the middle of January. AnnH 12:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Le Roy Lancelot

In one of your edits you make mention of Le Roy Lancelot or Wladislaus the White. Who was he, and when did he live? Thanks.

He was the last Cuyavian Piast, ruler of the tiny principality of Gniewkowo in the Kingdom of Poland. After the death of his wife, he sold the principality to his king, Casimir the Great, and became a Benedictine monk in the Saint-Bénigne monastery at Dijon. After the childless death of king Casimir, he unsuccessfully attempted to claim the Polish crown by force of arms. His life was apparently fascinating for his contemporaries. In the chansons de geste, he was nicknamed Le Roy Lancelot, as a reference to Sir Lancelot from the Arthurian legends. · Naive cynic · 07:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Interim reply

Dear Doctor, I will reply to you soon on Elser and believe it's not POV pushing, though some things as they stand now are inaccurate. As for your second question: Yes, it was possible to a member of one and not of the other. I don't know details about the Communis, but you must consider that the KPD was not a mass party as we know it today but a cadre party on the Leninist model. So weren't joining the KPD because you liked them but because you wanted to fight the political fight. It was much easier too be talked into joining the Rotfrontkämpferbund, as Elser was, as they needed more men. But regarding the NS organisation: there were numbers of different groups you could join independently and the Nazis developed a sort of Cursus honorum (in their view) that you will first join this and than that and finally the party (included in a famous Hitler speech on education of the youth). In 1933, after the Nazis had gained power, many people suddenly wanted to join the party and the NSDAP even closed itself to new memberships for a while. Those who made in were ridiculed as "Märzgefallene" (casualties of March, a pun on killed protestors of 1848), those you didn't make it joined other groups. In Carstens' case, the SA membership was obviously nominal or can you, if you know him, imagine Carstens the street-fighter. I can't. As I said, I will get back to you on Elser. Str1977 23:06, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I remember Carstens, I'm sure he's dead by now. I can't imagine him as a street fighter either. But I can imagine him in a "tracht" club though.Dr. Dan 03:17, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your support on Władysław Jagiełło. Can you think of any way of restoring fairness to the discussion. The discussion was posted on the Polish wikipedian notice board by Piotrus, and users invited to "comment", which hasn't helped balance the debate. Would you know any way of attracting more objective users to the page? Should I really just give up? I seems sad to abandon the page to a semi-fanaticism. - Calgacus 16:33, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again. It's appreciated. :) As a side-effect of this debate, the naming of Polish rulers is being reviewed. See, for instance, Talk:List_of_Polish_monarchs, esp. Aftermath and Proposal. It seems the funny observations you just posted are well-informed. - Calgacus 16:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

If you want more laughs, check out Adolf Lindenbaum, or just do a wiki search on Wilno. Shall you fix it, or shall I? - Calgacus 21:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Just a friendly note to what Calgacus wrote above: the fact that you don't agree with others does not mean that they are any less objective than you, at least not by definition. Here in wikipedia we should seek compromise, not the hailed and sole truth of . Halibutt 16:16, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Good Humor

Keep it up! :) - Calgacus 22:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Molobo's advice

I advise not to follow this encouragment and stop personal attacks and comments towards Polish editors. Please act in civilized and polite manner. --Molobo 23:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I can assure you Dr. Dan is not engaging in personal attacks. You'll need to disguish between when you perceive you're being attacked, and when you actually are. Don't be paranoid, give people the benefit of the doubt. - Calgacus 23:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid he already engages in personal comments focusing on nationality of other users, while ignoring the content of the articles he posts his remarks: For example : http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Raphael_Kalinowski When I did, why did the "objective" SylwiaS And another example of personal remarks irrelevant to article: I'll bet most of these contributors grew up under the communist government of Poland. And another example of personal remarks irrelevant to article: Go re-read some of the "histories" out of the Soviet Union, about Poland and you will understand why I want to give objectivity it's fair shake, visa vis your neighbors. What purpouse does this comment serve ? And another case of personal attack: Just don't make your contributions make yourselves look ridiculous. And try to keep the inuendo to a minimum, it does'nt look good when you later whine that you're being attacked Such behaviour is destructive for Misplaced Pages and must be avoided. Should I state a comment that contributors coming from USA should re-read their books as it is generally known USA has poor education system ? Such comment would simply a xenophobic attack based on nationality of the user. And this is what is happening here. Such xenophobic attacks against Polish contributors from D.Dan aren't welcomed and I hope they will stop. --Molobo 23:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Polnische banditen

Your comments addresing Polish users as a "Gang" are highly unwelcomed.Please beheave in civilized manner. --Molobo 23:10, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Gang doesn't mean a group of bandits; it can be negative in connotation, but I can assure you it isn't in the context you're talking about. The connotations are ones which in this context amount to affection, if slightly ironic. - Calgacus 23:26, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Hopefully Dr.Dan will therefore stop from addresing Polish users in manner that could be taken as calling them criminals. I have to tell Dr. Dan that it was often done as part of anti-polish propagand during German occcupation and as such it would be advisable for the good spirit of cooperation to avoid such naming in discussions with Polish users.And of course with discussions with all users as well, as ironic or humourous statements aren't purpouse of the Wiki. I also hope this was Dr.Dan's simple lack of knowledge that led to this incident. --Molobo 23:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Molobo

Thank you Molobo for your advice. I'm flattered that you should be summoned or sic'd on "little ole me". You say I'm addressing Polish users in a manner that could be taken as calling them criminals. Are you joking, or writing a resumé to send to Dr. Goebbels for a job in the Propaganda Ministry. He's dead, and the Ministry is kaputt, so don't bother.

It was not "my simple lack of knowledge that led to this incident", but your obviously simple lack of knowledge of the English language that led you to your very erroneous conclusions. I have a very high regard for Poland and the Poles. The fact that I object to errors in articles that can be made more objective, is no reason to assume an anti-Polish bias on my part. Personally, I think that the educational system in Poland is in fact, superior to the educational system in the United States (and so do you, but you need the glands that produce testosterone to admit it), and am happy to tell you that the Jagiellonian University is one of my Alma Maters. Interestingly enough, you don't want to engage in the substance of the arguments presented. And for that matter, neither do the participants of the arguments want to either. Wonder why? I shall not use Gang anymore, even though Calgacus correctly ascertained that it was meant in an affectionate and playful context. Although I will continue to address the PROKONSUL by his title, I will not call the others your Highnesses or your Excellencies or homies( that's Ghetto slang, so you don't accuse me of a homophobic slur later). Lastly, if I may say so, the TALK page (discussion page), is where reasonable people should argue and debate the article. And good if it gets heated and emotional. If it's not vulgar or personal, I say go for it! So SylwiaS, why the rv of Vilnius in the Raphael Kalinowski article back to Wilno? Dr. Dan 02:08, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Re:Wow

Yeah, it got me involved in that too. I have already seen the article you're talking about, as I too amuse myself by checking their contributions. There are now a whole series of disputed tags which follow them about. I suggest you add Misplaced Pages talk:Polish Wikipedians' notice board to your watch list, as that's where all the fun happens. At the top, there is a box with some articles labelled "Vandalized articles or needing attention", which in practice means that someone is objecting to the POV pushing of User:Molobo (contributions). You can see for yourself that on the three articles currently listed, i.e. Anti-Polonism, Kulturkampf and Germanization, Molobo's ultra-nationalistic editing practices have resulted in dispute tags. User:Sciurinæ (talk) has been trying to keep them neutral, but Molobo simply cares more. Wehrmacht and War crimes of the Wehrmacht may fall victim to him too, as he has also taken an interest in these articles. - Calgacus 10:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Their rants don't usually "disappear", although I've noticed at least that they do edit each other's text (for spelling errors, etc). What page was it on, and did you check the history? I don't know if it's possible for an admin to remove edit history, by instinct it seems unlikely that it would be used, as these rants are common enough. BTW, User:Sciurinæ (talk) wanted to get in touch with you via email, but your email wasn't enabled. He's experiencing similar problems with the hard-core couple, and wants to communicate with you privately. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) File:UW Logo-secondary.gif 17:57, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi!

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:German_Wikipedians%27_notice_board Ksenon 00:20, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Grunwlad

Okay, I didn't read enough of the article. Thanks for correcting that then. Rshu 19:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you look at my contributions list, I am not exactly new, but, thanks for telling me that. As you probably already know, it was good-intentioned, however, it was wrong. Rshu 19:58, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, some Wikipedians just act like robots. I always put why I edited something, or at the very least saying "this is a minor edit". It seems that we both are historians, so if I ever need help with history, or vise versa, it would be nice to be "allies". As you could see on my edits page, I basically do only history articles, besides a few actors and video games that I am familar with. Rshu 20:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Grunwald 2

You are friendly enough. Give me some time to reply to you. So far I changed the name back, so you do not feel offended. I hope you understand, that modern encyclopedias are neither chronicles, nor a historical sources. I will collect some more "historical" information and present it to you. The only thing, I am afraid you can not read the language which was official in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Because it was the old version of Belarusian Max Kanowski 03:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply on my talk-page. Yes, it makes sense to argue like this. But from my point of view, the case of Vitovt is a little bit different. Look at how Vitovt was named in other documents written by European royal houses at that time. Vitovt, Vitold, Witowt. I think that the current Lithuanian transcription of his name brings him too far from the real history. In this case, both you, the Lithuanians, and we, the Belarusians, are at risk to undermine this important part of our history.

Additionally, what a mess will be to call Vytautas in English, and Витовт in Russian - this will be a direct result of your logic.

After all, what would have said poor Vitovt when he learned that he is called Vytautas today. Before the spread of Christianity ancestors of the Belarusians used same pagan names. And now, by using only the Lithuanian version, it makes an impression that we have nothing to do with this part of history. Give me a break, my family comes from Slonim (close to Navagrudak - the first capital of GDL), which is a much more the original Litva (Lithuania) than Kaunas today.Max Kanowski 18:49, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions/Geographic names

I've noticed you've been changing "Wilno" into "Vilnius" in a couple of articles recently. While I'm not opposing any of your specific changes, I'd like to ask that you do it carefully, as the present state of the names is often well thought through, and a result of a fragile consensus. I'm sure you're aware that naming in Central/Eastern Europe is often a sensitive issue. I'd like to encourage you to take a look at the latest proposal at Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions/Geographic names. Hopefully you'll be able to improve it, or at least it might inspire you with your future name changes. Sincere thanks in advance. --_Lysy 21:49, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Article

It seems to me like you're doing a good job here in wikipedia. Did you start any article so far? Halibutt 02:12, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to reply so late but it wasn't until now that I discovered your reply in my archives (User:Halibutt/Archive12). In the future you might want to reply to my comments in my main talk space in order to let me notice your replies much sooner. I don't monitor my archives too often, you know? Anyway, the reason I asked was that I considered your influence valuable but was not sure what Barnstar would fit you the best. Since you have no articles started so far I think that the following would be a decent choice. Halibutt 21:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Polish-Lithuanian War

I've reverted some of your recent edits of Polish-Lithuanian War as I felt they were based more on your personal views than the facts. I'm happy to discuss the edits one by one in the article's talk page if you feel strongly about them. However, since it's you who are changing the existing version, it's up to you to support any controversial edits with sources, or at least explain some of them. --_Lysy 02:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I know it influences your normal level of friendliness when someone reverts your edits, therefore I appreciate the humorous attitude you presented instead of killing me :-) --_Lysy 07:01, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

20-th century history of PL

Saw your question at Talk:Cieszyn. I think you might find this article that was originally published in Nie interesting in this respect. The author expects those who read modern Polish history books to wonder: "po jaka cholere ci idioci, marszalek Rydz-Smigly i minister Józef Beck, zdecydowali sie na wojne z Hitlerem?". Regards, --Irpen 04:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

The article was interesting to say the least. And easy enough to read and understand without needing a dictionary or help from some translation program. Thank you. The Marshal and Colonel were amateurs next to their mentor, Pilsudski. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Beck was actually Hitler's guest at Berchtesgaden for New Years, 1939. The facts concerning their blunders need to be brought forth accurately and without bias. That it will be vociferously challenged, is to be expected. One should be prepared. It seems this group of editors enjoys entrapping people into reverting wars, and they then try to have them blocked, or removed from participation in the Misplaced Pages project. Hopefully, the powers that be, will begin to see what's going on here. Dr. Dan 06:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

• The article was published in NIE-a newspaper published by Jerzy Urban-in 2005 Polish court finally decided that Jerzy Urban is comperable in his style of propaganda as Goebbels.

--Molobo 00:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

See Talk:History_of_Poland_(1939–1945)#Urban_has_been_claimed_by_polish_court_as_comperable_to_Goebbels

One of the pages where this is currently "brought forth" is Talk:History_of_Poland_(1939–1945)#.22Yalta_and_the_Soviet_Occupation.22_section. Bemused by post-44 years in history of Poland being called there "Years of occupation" I recetly added the picture of "occupation" to "illustrate" the text which I left intact for now. I am looking forward for the "group of editors" to do something about that. --Irpen 06:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

See? Yhe "group of editors" got to the article. It got even more of the Russophobic propaganda than it used to be. Sigh. --Irpen 00:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Ekhem ? We are writing about Soviets.Isn't it claimed Russia isn't Soviet Union ? If you have concerns write them. --Molobo 00:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

see History of Poland (1939–1945) and its talk. This article could really use some outside view. Especially from yet an uninvolded editor who is a historian. So far it is just me there and the Poles and Molobo alone is worth the army. If you have time and interest, Zapraszam. --Irpen 04:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Not just him and Poles. A Jew is also there :) Anyway, take a look at Talk:Polish-Lithuanian War Halibutt 18:08, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Labas

I saw that you might be interested in some topics related to Lithuania and wanted to say welcome also. I hope you will like it here, I know it gets heated sometimes, and you will stick around. If you neeed some help, please do not hesitate to drop me a line. I might not be readily available, but I will answer. Also, please don't be shy to participate in Misplaced Pages:Baltic States notice board. It's now sort of in "development stages" so your input is highly appreciated. Renata 03:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

"Vitovt Wars"

Dan, don't get mad at me. You claim to be a historian and a pacifist. Put yourself into my shoes. I, a Belarusian, open a page about Grunwald. There I read: "I am nothing, my history is nothing, my kin is nothing, my family is nothing, my language is nothing, my home town's history (Slonim, if you are an expert in GDL - you know where it is) is nothing.... etc." - of course I explode. What did you expect? And then you ask why I am so nervous...

Have you seen those two lines dedicated to the Belarusian participation in the previous version of Grunwald? Smth like "In Belarus the battle is claimed to be a Polish-Lithuanian-Belarusian victory against the evil Germans" .. and that's it. It is like to speak about the American Revolution and never to mention the Americans.

But even then I never said anything personal either about you, or Lysy, or Renata, or Lithy, etc. Ok, I was wrong to say that it was better to extinguish Lithuanians. Sorry for that - overreacted.

So here is the summary of what I wanted to tell you (you may not reply if you do not want to):

- When I said that no one cares about Samogitia I meant the spelling, not the land, or the people.

- My name is Kanowski, not Kalinowski

- Do not humiliate me through my knowledge of English - I believe I speak English better than you speak Russian. Better correct mistakes of Lithy.

- Do not publicly humiliate me by assumptions/hints about my work in NY that does not require good English. Yes, the majority of clients are Russian-speaking businessmen. We can better compare our income statements in USD: you and me.

- Sorry that I called you a Lithuanian. I guess I mixed your page with someone else's. But still, my guess is that you have some Baltic roots as you are so knowledgeable about Balts and do not want to hear anything about Slavs (btw, Belarusians are half-Slavs, and some scientists claim that they are much more Balts than Slavs).

- Once again - do not get mad at me. Better try to read smth about Belarus and who knows, maybe the Eastern European pages in Misplaced Pages will become even better.

Good luck in fights with other Belarusians who will get insulted by those pages in Misplaced Pages! Max Kanowski 04:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion

I would suggest stopping removing Polish names from Lithuanian cities & towns. I know at least one person that got into huuuuge trouble over that and I would hate to see the same happening to you. It was discussed furiously before without reaching consensus. So if you want to reopen the discussions... I would better suggest jumping from a bridge :) Renata 14:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Question About Suggestion

I'm not planning to jump off a bridge soon. My question is simple. I'm surfing Misplaced Pages and come across Kernavė, an ancient medieval Capital of Lithuania. Halibutt feels it's necessary to inform the English speaking readers of Misplaced Pages, as to what the Polish name of the town is. So, I go to Gniezno, also an ancient medieval Capital of Poland. Wanting to inform the English speaking readers as to what the Lithuanian name of the town is, I add the Lithuanian name. Lo and behold, Molobo, reverts the addition as "irrelevant". Next, I take a look at Kaunas, this again has the Polish name added by Halibutt. I look at Lublin, a famous town, with significant historical associations to Lithuania. In fact, the city in which Lithuania, became an "equal" partner with Poland by virtue of the Union of Lublin and created the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. So I add the Lithuanian name, and Balcer has a problem with this, and it too is reverted. Maybe this scenario needs to be reviewed again, and explained as to what is going on. Oh yes, my question, why is what's good for the goose not good for the gander? Dr. Dan 14:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I favour the inclusion of equivalent names for places, if only as the recording of facts. Recently, I needed to track down the Polish and Lithuanian names for various places including Panevėžys, so it is useful. I realise that this may be tricky given national histories, but any problems or rivalries can be explained (briefly) in the articles. For me the most problematic names are the German equivalents, but these are of historical interest. Please, Dr Dan, replace the Polish names wherever you have removed them, then you are in a stronger position to argue your case elsewhere. And I would support you wherever the names have a historical basis. Folks at 137 18:05, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

First of all, Dr. Dan, if you have a problem with my reverts, please voice your concerns on my talk page or the article talk page. I do not regularly monitor your talk page, and today looked at it by chance, certainly not expecting to find any discussion about me. Now, the basic reason I reverted the inclusion of the Lithuanian name for Lublin is because that name is never used in the English language to describe the city. If you do a Google search of English language pages for the Lithuanian name, you get 4 hits, and even these are not actually English pages :). The only valid reason to include a name of the city in a different language in the lead is if there is a high chance that an English speaker will come across that form of the name in an English publication. Thus, there is a very good reason to include the German name Danzig for Gdansk, because in many books about history, as well as books published in the past, that name will be used.

As for including Polish names for Lithuanian cities, I do not particularly care about the issue, which in my opinion should anyway be left to Lithuanian editors as the most interested party. Still, Polish names for those cities can be found in at least some English language publications, and the Polish language was after all at one time in wide use in Lithuania (even today 7% of its population is ethnically Polish). So I can see some grounds for an argument that including a Polish name is valid. Still, if some Lithuanians have an averse reaction to such practice, who am I to go against their feelings?Balcer 00:21, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Balcer, if some Lithuanians (some of the population, according to you, the 93% which is not Polish), think the historical significance of Lublin in the history of both countries warrants an inclusion of Lublin's Lithuanian name, do you "have an adverse reaction to such a practice"? I realize that you probably will not read this, " since I (you) do not regularly monitor your (my) talk page", but if you do, perhaps you will comment on this matter. And if just by some coincidence, you should have contact with Molobo, you might ask him if the ancient Lithuanian capital of Kernavė's Polish name has relevance in the English version of Misplaced Pages, while the Lithuanian name for Gniezno is "irrelevant". Salutations. Dr. Dan 01:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)