Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license.
Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat.
We can research this topic together.
::::::::::::::::Regarding your first point, what ''other'' term is given for those who believe black athletes to be superior? Regarding your question, I would be OK with ] redirecting to a section within this article for the time-being. ] (]) 08:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Regarding your first point, what ''other'' term is given for those who believe black athletes to be superior? Regarding your question, I would be OK with ] redirecting to a section within this article for the time-being. ] (]) 08:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::That seems to be a very good suggestion. I will amend may delete vote.] (]) 08:20, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::That seems to be a very good suggestion. I will amend may delete vote.] (]) 08:20, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::Cheers! Perhaps we can work together on this article in the future. ] (]) 08:23, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sport-related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SportsWikipedia:WikiProject SportsTemplate:WikiProject Sportssports
Assess : newly added and existing articles, maybe nominate some good B-class articles for GA; independently assess some as A-class, regardless of GA status.
Cleanup : * Sport governing body (this should-be-major article is in a shameful state) * Field hockey (History section needs sources and accurate information - very vague at the moment.) * Standardize Category:American college sports infobox templates to use same font size and spacing. * Sport in the United Kingdom - the Popularity section is incorrect and unsourced. Reliable data is required.
* Fix project template and/or "to do list" Current version causes tables of content to be hidden unless/until reader chooses "show."
Translate the page of sport in each country from corresponding article in other language Misplaced Pages to English Misplaced Pages which was marked in red.
Categorize: Gather all (major/olympic) sports to be part of this project
I've removed several paragraphs of unreferenced vagueness. This leaves essentially nothing except Jon Entine. Some properly sourced alternative opinions are badly needed; the existing external links might be a good start. – Smyth\ 10:14, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Is this really necessary?
Outside of a few black supremacy groups, I have yet to see a compelling study indicating that African-Americans are naturally more athletic. In reality we only see black dominance in basketball, sprints, and to a lesser extent American football. I think until we actually discover more scientific research on this, it should be written a pseudo-scientific theory, not a credible work. Applez2Applez (talk) 23:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Is what really necessary? The article does not appear to show that the idea of black athletic superiority has mainstream support or credibility. I found a credible refutation of Entine's assertions here, so that certainly could be worked into the article for balance. Feel free to do what you can to help it along. Location (talk) 23:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Race and sports: racial discrimination
An article on race and sports should discuss racial discrimination in sports. The title move has defined race and sports very narrowly, forgetting to take this into account. On the other hand there are plenty of books on the subject—e.g."In black and white: race and sports in America"
by Kenneth L. Shropshire—which cover racial discrimination. Readers will expect to see some coverage of that. Having chosen this new title for the article, it should therefore reflect this wider common usage of the term. Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 05:45, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
There seem to be many books and articles on this subject. The meaning I took is probably the principal meaning, so the article will probably have to be completely rewritten from that perspective. Here are some other references, found randomly:
The unlevel playing field: a documentary history of the African-American experience in sport, by Wiggins and Miller, University of Illinois Press
Race and Sport: The Struggle for Equality on and Off the Field, by Charles K. Ross, University Press of Mississipi
Advancing the Ball:Race, Reformation, and the Quest for Equal Coaching Opportunity in the NFL, by N. Jeremi Duru and Tony Dungy, Oxford University Press
It is probably best to start with a systematic literature search, given that the topic has been much discussed by academics and others. Even the Olympics in Nuremberg will probably warrant some kind of mention in a future history section. I will add a template until the subject is properly covered. Good luck, Mathsci (talk) 06:02, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
There really should have been some discussion here before renaming the article. Although "Race and sports" is a perfectly legitimate subject for an article, the concept of "black athletic superiority" is a major part of that subject. Attempting to "whitewash" the subject by eliminating the term from the article is silly. The two sections and the first four supporting reference specifically address the history behind that particular concept; not the history of how Chinese athletes or those of other races are viewed. Location (talk) 06:15, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
"Black athletic superiority" is in itself a NPOV violation. Anyhow, blacks do not dominate all sports, there are many where other races dominate.Miradre (talk) 06:30, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Isn't the phrase "where other races dominate" also very heavily POV? You should rely nn what WP:RS say, not your own personal opinion. Mathsci (talk) 06:33, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
The original article was about athletics. But now that the title has changed, material on racial discrimination in sports needs to be added. The lead section at the moment is poorly written. It is disjointed and there are several grammatical errors. Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 06:45, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm not going to edit the article, since you created this mess all on your own. I have advised you how to start adding material on racial discrimination by doing a literature survey. You don't appear to have done so. There is no rush. Just remember to be systematic and above all encyclopedic. Adding points by thinking up a topic yourself and then finding support for it in the literature is probably not the way to go, given the four references I have listed above. I will watch how you edit, but, because of my self-imposed topic ban, I will not do any article edits here. Besides, I know next to nothing about sport beyond the prowess of Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards. Mathsci (talk) 07:00, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Also your move has messed up all the categories. This is still classified as "athletics". Please correct this, or move the article to a more appropriate name, after having gained consensus. Why not leave a note on WikiProject Athletics or WikiProject Sports? Mathsci (talk) 07:11, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
No, "black athletic superiority" does in fact exist as a concept or an idea that many people believe to be true and that many others have challenged as untrue, and the article did present that information in a neutral manner. There is a huge difference in stating 1) "'black athletic superiority' refers to black dominance in sport" and 2) "'black athletic superiority' refers to the idea that blacks dominate sports". Location (talk) 07:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
But the title states it as a fact, not as a dispute, which violates NPOV. Look at other articles. The titles carefully avoid taking a side in the dispute. Anyway, I have added a source stating that whites dominate swimming.Miradre (talk) 07:12, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Here is the article before you touched it. It did not state that black athletic superiority was a fact. What was stated as fact was this: "Black athletic superiority is the IDEA that black people possess certain traits that are acquired through genetic and/or environmental factors that allow them to excel over other races in athletic competition." Reporting that some people believe in the IDEA of black athletic superiority is not NPOV. The swimming information is not neutral because it implies that white swimmers dominate due to genetic factors. There is no agreement that genetic factors, rather than environmental factors, are the cause. And you're comparing only black to white and not other races. Location (talk) 07:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
That the lead is npov does not save the title. The title itself must follow NPOV. There is no agreement that blacks are overrepresented in running due to genetics either.Miradre (talk) 07:22, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Neutralising the title is easy enough: "Black performance in athletics" would have been a perfectly good alternative. Perhaps we should move it to that now. Mathsci (talk) 07:32, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
That many people believe something does not mean we should name an article so. Anyhow, the article now also includes more than just black overrepresentation in athletics.Miradre (talk) 07:42, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
White overrepresentation in swimming is not related to White supremacy anymore than black overrepresenation in running is related to Black supremacy.Miradre (talk) 07:53, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
This is not about swimming. This is about Misplaced Pages having articles discussing what people believe. You said: "That many people believe something does not mean we should name an article so." Many people believe in the idea of white supremacy and many people believe in the idea of black athletic superiority. White supremacy begins this way: "White supremacy is the belief, and promotion of the belief, that white people are superior to people of other racial backgrounds." That article does not state that whites are truly superior to other races, nor did this article state that blacks are truly superior to other races. Location (talk) 08:01, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Should WP have an article called Democratic Politics Superiority? Or Democratic Politics Superiority? Lots of people believe strongly in either alternative. But both violates NPOV so WP should not have articles titled so.Miradre (talk) 07:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
That you can find a phrase like "black athletic superiority" is hardly evidence for that this is the common term for a concept. Finding many such three words phrases is not difficult. Anyhow, are you arguing that there should be two articles? Miradre (talk) 08:13, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Regarding your first point, what other term is given for those who believe black athletes to be superior? Regarding your question, I would be OK with Black athletic superiority redirecting to a section within this article for the time-being. Location (talk) 08:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
