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Spartaz (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

I'm a long term user (first edit 2006) and have been an admin on or off since 2007. When we first started there was so much idealism and we really had no strong policies about inclusion except a desire to have some level of sourcing. As time moved on we became more structured and around the time I became an admin in 2007 we were grappling with the concept of collapsing non notable articles into lists which I was at the forefront of as a regular afd closer and constant presence at DRV. I had a lot of patience once and for that reason was regular DRV closer for a long time after GR Berry left the project. Sadly, my patience was degraded over time and getting involved in the PORNBIO wars pretty much washed out a lot of the good faith that policy and courtesy quite rightly requires us to show. This was again a major change in our approach to content and one of the first SNGs that was deprecated in favour of a more rigid approach to proper sourcing. Since then our content in this area has become much better and we are seeing similar struggles now in the sports arena where SNGs are slowly giving way to GNG level standards.

I have always taken a very legalistic approach to closing discussions that I recognise does not fit well to the current community standard, where low participation level allowing more brigading of votes or allowing more non-policy based arguments. For this reason I'm not really closing discussions but will still happily review old closes. Otherwise I mostly review and nominate unsuitable content as a BLP is a serious matter and needs to be properly sourced.

i am willing to userfy deleted articles for improvement as long as there is a reasonable likelihood that they can be saved. If you are challenging a deletion, do you have three good sources?

Useful Links:

• Deletion Review
• Articles for Deletion
• Unblocks

Please don't leave talkback templates as I always watchlist pages when I edit and I'm perfectly capable of looking for a reply myself.

Spartaz is on holiday and will have varying amounts of internet access depending on where he is and the amount he posts if he does have access will depend how much fun he is having. Please don't leave messages here if you need an urgent response. You might get one, but then you might not. Usual levels of disinterested cynicism and snark will be resumed in early September. Demob happy? Me? You betcha! Spartaz 09:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I hope you are having a great holiday and at your convenience could you please get back to me

I want to first congratulate you on over 21,000 contributions. I know first hand the feeling you get when achieving great things. You and your fellow administrators have made, and continue to make, Misplaced Pages a brilliant place to go for correct information. I want to apologize if the page http://en.wikipedia.org/Brian_J._Esposito (Brian J. Esposito) violated any of these internal rules. I was under the impression that my accomplishments which were sourced by companies such as Inc. Magazine, Hearst Publications, BIR Report, Beauty Store Business, Asbury Park Press, KikScore, The National Retail Federation, NRF and many more were valid enough. I would like to work with you in correcting any issues and to have this page restored. I am continuing to make great strides for my companies, employees, and my family. Having this page also acted as a way of helping me continue to accomplish my goals and dreams. I look forward in hearing back from you and also learning from you on how to correctly do the right thing when it comes to Misplaced Pages.

Thank you for your time,

Brian J. Esposito CEO - AVEYOU Beauty Boutique CEO/President/Founder - paybaQ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brianjesposito (talk • contribs) 16:50, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

• It wasn't really so much my decisioon to delete this as my enforcing a consensus of editors at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Brian J. Esposito. I'd suggest that thorough reading of my essay on fixing deleted content if you are interested in getting back but, frankly, we are non profit project not a vehicle for self-publication and promotion and I would advise you to stay away from the page to avoid a conflict of interest. Spartaz 13:25, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Just being friendly

SwisterTwister has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. You can Spread the "WikiLove" by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

To spread the goodness of cookies, you can add {{subst:Cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat this cookie on the giver's talk page with {{subst:munch}}!

I know how working hard on Misplaced Pages can build up an appetite, so I hope this cookie will make your day. SwisterTwister talk 07:39, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

AfDs

Thanks for that. Dougweller (talk) 09:03, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Must be a fast learner for him to learn about AfDs and to to do them so quickly. Dougweller (talk) 14:02, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, this does look rather like a re-tred but since I'm on holiday i can't really be bothered trying to work out who he is. Spartaz 13:21, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Neo-marxism

Hi, just saw your decision concerning the AfD on Neo-marxism. I am not sure if I agree with your decision - as you know, the task of an admin is not to tally the votes, but to read the reasoning for each vote and decide which side has the stronger case.

I do not wish to start a protracted argument with you but I would ask two favors of you. First, read my comment here. Second, a month from now please take a look at the article, and compare the state of it a month from now to its current state. If there is no serious improvement I ask you to consider the possibility that the reasons of the people who voted "delete" are stronger and should thus be deciding.

If at that time you decide to stick by your decision, I will not argue with you. I ask only that you take these two steps and think about it. Slrubenstein | Talk 18:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Pro forma ANI notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.. I have raised the issue of User:FireTool87's creating disruptive/retaliatory AFDs regarding articles you created. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 15:24, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Question

Hello Spartaz, was this an accident? If you do not agree with my opinion, feel free to block, but I cannot see how just having "hell" embedded in the username constitutes a blatantly inappropriate username that warrants immediate blocking, especially since the user's userpage implies s/he is here to contribute constructively. Thanks! Reaper Eternal (talk) 19:50, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

• Whoops, yes that was an accident. I'm very sorry. Completely inappropriate use of the rollback tool. I'm using my dad's laptop and its a bit slow and cranky. I guess I must have clicked on the wrong link on my watchlist. I'll take more care. Sorry. Spartaz 21:06, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Re: Slender Man deletion

First of all, I'm not asking why the article was deleted. I understand why. I'm merely asking if it would be possible to undelete the article and move it to User:Cougar Draven/Slender Man, so that I can continue to work on the page for resubmission at a later date. Thank you in advance for your time. Cougar Draven (talk) 14:40, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

• I have userfied this with history at User:Cougar Draven/Slender Man.For attribution reasons I cannot make two copies so this will have to do. Spartaz 17:16, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Slender Man Deletion

I've spent the last hour or so reviewing the AfD for Slender Man, and while I, like Cougar, understand why it was deleted, I'd like to get a copy of the article in full. The Slender Man has sort of caught a hold of my imagination and I'd love the ability to possibly help Cougar give the article some proper sourcing so as to bring Slender Man up to standards. KaynetheDragon (talk) 16:52, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

• See above. Spartaz 17:17, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Dominant group

Hi!

Yes, you deleted the article Dominant group, but that is in response to the voting of six (delete) vs. four (keep) so no problem with your deletion. I am the creator of the article and would like to ask your advice on two matters regarding the voting. I noticed that one of the wikipedians voted per a claim of Synthesis or Original research. And another for POV. Although time did not permit my request for a third party to respond to the POV claim by one voter (for deletion), do you know if Misplaced Pages also has a third party request regarding WP:SYN or Misplaced Pages:No original research? I know of the Noticeboard but with POV the request is specifically for a third party to appropriately comment: NPOV or POV. I am familiar with Misplaced Pages synthesis and NOR, even prove it by description of authors works, yet voters will claim this as their reason for deletion.

Legally speaking, such claims are unsupported and constitute false statements or pushing POV which is censoring, not editing. I don't mind wikipedians voting to delete because they want to, but voting per false statements really is inappropriate. I am, of course, taking the advice of one of the voters to prepare alternative forms of the article such as a disambiguation page, etc. But, these matters bother me and your advice would be helpful since I have only been contributing here since 2009. Thank you in advance for your kind attention to these matters. Marshallsumter (talk) 21:15, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

• Please review WP:NLT and refactor your comment to bring it into agreement with the NLT guideline. Until you do that I'm not prepared to respond to this. Spartaz 08:29, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the comment. I have read NLT. I am not a lawyer so no threat is intended nor should it be perceived. I have refactored the matters mentioned. The statements above are because the article deleted per voting was attacked through the use of false statements, pushing POV, and censoring, per these articles on Misplaced Pages. I asked you for advice on how to handle these, if you don't have any advice, no problem. I asked you for help in good faith. Please assume the same. While every article on Misplaced Pages can always use improvement, occasionally there are topics that a 'dominant group' may instinctively not want to acknowledge. For example, some 90% of the sentences in the article voted on, actually even a higher percentage, came from authorities (cited references). They are allowed to perform synthesis and original research, yet some voters refused to realize that. Perhaps Misplaced Pages needs a group that specializes in understanding exactly what that is. By the way, one of the voters completely blanked the 'Religion' section, replaced it with an incoherent sentence, then voted against the article. The section did not cover all religions, but the authors cited discussed two. Marshallsumter (talk) 10:29, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
    • The problem is that the other users who commented in the AFD didn't agree with your interpretation of OR. In fact, I see Orangemike commented specifically to that point on your talk page just this morning. The point of wikipedia is that we report what other people publish so its true that we don't mind authorities sythnethising information but, as reporters of others' thoughts, we do not indulge in original research or synthesis ourselves. Unless you can evidence sources that specifically discuss the subject of Dominant Group then it doesn't matter how well sourced your article is if the sources are being used in the context of another article. Finally, I'm still very uncomfortable with your comment legally speaking and referring to false statements. I consider it remains a borderline legal threat and I am asking you again to redact it. Spartaz 14:24, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
      • Except for text originally from other articles here on wikipedia that may not have had citations attached, all other sentences in the article had citations attached except a summary sentence in the intro. What is disturbing me is that it seems anyone can use the phrase, words to the effect, "this contains original research or synthesis" when the article has none. One of the wikipedians actually commented that authors being cited were performing original research or synthesis, which of course, is their responsibility not mine as the article creator or as an editor. With respect to "Unless you can evidence sources that specifically discuss the subject of Dominant Group then it doesn't matter how well sourced your article is if the sources are being used in the context of another article.", each cite was doing exactly that, specifically discussing the subject of 'Dominant group' in the context used. It is another argument used before, when some editors did not like what the cited authors were stating.
    • Coming to your 'redact' request, I think the phrase, "Legally speaking", is bothering you in some way that I am not perceiving. The first redact definition is to put in shape (matter for publication); to edit. The phrase is not directed toward you, nor toward the other wikipedians, but, specifically towards the following: over 2650 people (ten times normal!) read the article starting on the 16th, during the AfD period, and only eleven people voted, the ten on the AfD page, and someone (not me) rated the article at 5's all across. It is my understanding that anyone (Wikipedian) can vote as in a political election any way they wish, without justification or explanation, although I believe a reason is requested. If we have no definitive way to understand 'original research', or 'synthesis' in the context, then the comment is meaningless. Further, if voters misuse the concept, or if they understand it but don't like the article's cited content, then they may make false statements about the content. If a reason is required for the vote to count, then they may make false statements to push POV or to censor. How would you know the difference? If a reason is required and it is not factual or the truth, then harm to wikipedia has occurred; hence, the phrase 'legally speaking'. When harm has occurred, in this case to wikipedia, there must be redress, but what is it? Who decides if a 'dominant group' is present? I realize many of the 3200 probably cannot vote, but ten out of 2650!
    • Another meaning of redact is to "censor", the third meaning, same source, is "o black out text for other purposes, such as in law, when legally protected sections of text are obscured in a document provided to opposing counsel, typically as part of the discovery process." We are not conducting discovery. If the phrase is still bothering you, what is it specifically? "Legally speaking" is a point of view as indicated, specifically aimed at achieving NPOV. One of the voters clearly censored, and replaced material from two cited texts with unreferenced dribble, then voted to delete after vandalizing that section of the article. I wouldn't count that vote, but I do not know if you are allowed that option, and without it the tally is 4 (keep) to 5 (delete), which is no consensus.
    • Also, I looked at about a half dozen of Orangemike's articles. Everyone contained a majority of uncited sentences; hence, each article lacks notability and appears to be personal essay, unsuitable for wikipedia. What would you like me to do, put each one up for deletion, make entries on the 'Discussion' page (as was not done for the 'Dominant group' article), or try to find references for Orangemike's article creation and editing failures? That's really Orangemike's responsibility for being article creator. Orangemike is an excellent example of exactly what I'm writing to you about. There is a difference between expressing an opinion, and making false statements, pushing POV, or censoring. Orangemike, clearly does not know what original research, or synthesis is, by his own failure to cite appropriate references for his own articles. Your task isn't easy I guess, or is it? If you do not evaluate, or are not allowed to evaluate the voters, then I understand your position, and redress must come elsewhere. Suggestions? 'Dominant group' was Afd for twelve days, yet the last deciding votes all came within a ten hour period, starting with the voter who censored, ending one hour before closure. How is that reasonably possible? After the first seven full days (19th to 26th) of posted AfD, the voting is tied at four each. Again, thank you for your kind attention to these matters. I hope I have answered your concerns and clarified mine. Marshallsumter (talk) 22:41, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
    • I just read the next entry regarding another article where you are asking if the article creator is asking to have you review the close. If this is possible, and you can, please do so for 'Dominant group'. But, if you cannot properly evaluate the actions of John Pack Lambert, you may not have the freedom necessary to render 'no consensus', but please consider this as a request to do so anyway. Marshallsumter (talk) 22:51, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
      • I'm really unhappy with the juxtaposition of legally speaking and false statements here. I have raised it at ANI for a second opinion. Spartaz 09:02, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

your deletion policy

so to my understanding you deleted the article I created because lack of sources (Ultimate Glory 11), dont you think you could have given me more time to gather my sources before deleting my article???? Sepulwiki 22:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

• I'm presuming that you are referring to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ultimate Glory 11: A Decade of Fights. That discussion was up 21 days and no sources came to light. Policy allows us to delete after 7 if there is a clear consensus. How much more time do you think you need? Do you have any sources? If you find some, you can always come back here and ask me to review the close on the light of the sourcing. Spartaz 08:34, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

User:Timeshift9

Hi Spartaz. As the DRV closer of Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2011 June 5, would you take a look at User talk:Timeshift9#Your userpage 2? There is a disagreement about whether Timeshift9 (talk · contribs)'s recreation of User:Timeshift9 with blog-like material is in violation of the MfD close. I have also contacted Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs), the MfD closer. Cunard (talk) 07:22, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

• I think this is probably more Tim's field then mine. I tend not to involve myself too closely in editor behaviour issues because I really suck at that side of the admin role but thanks for the heads up. I'll watch what happens closely. I'd be tempted to blank and protect but that's quite an extreme action for a user talk page so I'm inclined to this going to a drama board for a discussion. Tim may be (and probably justifiably too) inclined to do something else. Spartaz 09:21, 31 July 2011 (UTC)