Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 21:58, 26 December 2011

Hello, Yappy2bhere! Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions to this 💕. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! XLinkBot (talk) 06:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images • create your first article Intuitive guide to Misplaced Pages • Article Creation Wizard Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Misplaced Pages is not • Biographies of living persons List of policies • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • List of guidelines Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General • Spam • Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

October 2009

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Yes (band) has been reverted.
Your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links which are discouraged per our external links guideline from Misplaced Pages. The external link you added or changed is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Misplaced Pages. I removed the following link(s): http://blogcritics.org/books/article/book-review-views-by-roger-dean/, http://blogcritics.org/writers/greg-barbrick/ (matching the regex rule \bblogcritics\.org\b). If the external link you inserted or changed was to a blog, forum, free web hosting service, or similar site, then please check the information on the external site thoroughly. Note that such sites should probably not be linked to if they contain information that is in violation of the creator's copyright (see Linking to copyrighted works), or they are not written by a recognised, reliable source. Linking to sites that you are involved with is also strongly discouraged (see conflict of interest).
If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other, constructive, changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Misplaced Pages's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 06:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Everything (software)

A tag has been placed on Everything (software), requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the guidelines on spam as well as Misplaced Pages:FAQ/Business for more information. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you.  Chzz  ►  18:20, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Everything (software)

The article Everything (software) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

For inclusion, an article requires significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. I cannot find appropriate references to satisfy the general notability guidelines. (Declined speedy deletion as blatant promotion)

While all contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.  Chzz  ►  04:14, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Everything (software)

I have nominated Everything (software), an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Everything (software). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Triplestop x3 03:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I know you're not going to like this, but please accept I am trying to be helpful. The argument you make at WP:Articles for deletion/Everything (software) is so common that Misplaced Pages has a page on it called Misplaced Pages:Other stuff exists. It's worth a read if you want to make a stronger case to keep.

To answer the points you make at AfD:

• 7-Zip won an award (referenced to sourceforge.net);
• sed is the subject of several books by third-party authors (referenced in Further reading);
• XYplorer was prominently mentioned in several magazine articles (referenced in External links);

After you mentioned Mp3tag at AfD, an editor added links to a review and two books to make sure it met WP:Notability.

The weak one from a notability point of view is FreeOTFE and frankly, I don't think it would survive AfD either in its current state.

My advice still is to try to find books, magazine articles or reviews that mention Everything and add them to the article if you want it to be kept. If it should be deleted you can always ask for a copy and work on it in your userspace, once you've found sources that establish notability. Hope this helps. --RexxS (talk) 22:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

My, this just keeps getting better. Losing the very useful article on FreeOTFE was certainly not a result I wanted. My point was not that "other stuff exists" and this is no worse, but that "other stuff exists", it's good stuff despite its warts, and so is this. I'd add as a corollary: Leave them alone - they're good enough for now, and can only get better. An encyclopedia should be comprehensive, and that includes "RexxS's Two Cats" if you like as long as you tell no lies and disclose your relationship with them against potential conflicts of interest.

Explaining why 7-Zip et al. are notable is very helpful. I had a narrower view of which references were relevant to notability. I admit I completely overlooked the books cited in the sed article; I've wasted so much time chasing down print works inappropriately cited in Misplaced Pages that I'm blind to them now.

That was fast work on Mp3tag. The links point to two books auf Deutsch which have not been translated into English by a single author who has copied the relevant text verbatim from one book to the other. Fine by me, if it preserves the article on Mp3tag, but is it acceptable for an editor to cite his own book? It was illuminating that a CNET review carries such weight; I hadn't expected that.

You needn't worry that I'll kill the messenger. I believe I'm right, I've aggressively advocated my position, and I'm sorry if I somehow roughed you up in the process. I understand your points, indeed they represent accepted academic practice. However, the sources that we really consult about technical magic like software are marginalized by these standards, and we don't really consult the sources deemed reliable by the standards because they just aren't very useful. I assure you, I don't start at microsoft.com or apple.com when my laptop falls ill, and I'd wager that few people do.

Until yesterday I believed that Misplaced Pages collectively recognized on some level this discrepancy between the formal and useful value of sources and tolerated it for the sake of comprehensiveness, functioning more as a peer-reviewed blog than as the online incarnation of the pedantically correct but incomplete Encyclopaedia Britannica. You see, I don't use Misplaced Pages for information available from conventional sources, so my understanding of Misplaced Pages was biased, and I find it a bit trying to be told to cleave to standards that would doom many of the articles most useful to me on Misplaced Pages. I understand the utility of standards, but I wonder if killing all the ugly babies is good policy. Yappy2bhere (talk) 01:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Conflict of interest

In Chzz's RfA I made a claim that you had a conflict of interest regarding Everything (software).

I was wrong and I apologize. I based this claim on a misreading of the talk page of the article, where you were asserting that the author of the software should be considered an authority. Clearly that was meant to defend your use of primary sources, not a declaration that you were the author. It was wrong of me to place a COI tag on the article.

I still believe that the article does not merit inclusion at this time. Our verifiability policy and reliable sources policy both declare that the sources used are not appropriate. But at the same time, your use of them as references does not count as original research, and Chzz's tag was also not appropriate.

Both tags have since been removed from the article, and I would not reapply them. In fact, if they were reapplied I would remove them.

You are not a bad editor. You are a new editor, and I think you've made mistakes, but I made mistakes when I started and I still make mistakes (as you well know!). It's very likely that your first article will be deleted, and I hope that if that occurs you aren't soured by the experience. More than once I have seen articles deleted that I spent hours of work on. It's not a good feeling. But I've looked at your contributions and you've made a number of very good changes to articles that I'm sure will stay. I particularly appreciate this edit you made to Comparison of 3D computer graphics software (I'm a fan of Sketchup by the way). You're definitely a better editor than I was when I started.

Anyway, I just wanted to leave a note to apologize and hopefully to let you know that at least one person appreciates what you're doing at Misplaced Pages. -- Atama頭 22:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Personal attacks

Please do not leave personal attacks or name-calling in edit summaries, as you did at Feral child. Thank you, rʨanaɢ /_contribs 10:36, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Hardly personal, but if you want to claim credit for that bit of lazy editorial work, fine. Yappy2bhere (talk) 04:58, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Priceless. Yappy2bhere (talk) 06:33, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I too would like you to stop with the personal attacks. You've called my edits vandalism , called me dishonest , and made sexist and offensive comments while telling me to "cheer up". I appreciate the feedback you've been providing as a process moves from essay to policy, but please comment on content, not on contributors. --Explodicle (T/C) 00:14, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Agism, perhaps, but not sexism. You simply pouted ("*Sigh* Whatever.") because I had reverted your edit instead of cogently addressing my objection. Repeatedly redirecting an article to skirt WP policy is vandalism, as is redirecting an article into a dead-end. You've been treated fairly. Yappy2bhere (talk) 01:08, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

If you honestly believe my edits are vandalism, do something about it or stop harassing me. Personal attacks are not an appropriate way to handle disputes. --Explodicle (T/C) 13:07, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Jaikoz

An article that you have been involved in editing, Jaikoz, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jaikoz. Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. --Explodicle (T/C) 17:14, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Ret.Prof (talk) 13:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC) is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Xmas, Eid, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hannukah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec09}} to your friends' talk pages.

Re: Jaikoz image

We do allow non-free (copyrighted) images in very limited circumstances, as explained at Misplaced Pages:Non-free content. In the case of album art, this is typically limited to use for identification of the album in its own article, and nowhere else. Images which contain album art are therefore considered, at best, to be derivative works of those copyrighted images. (ESkog) 03:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

• Right, usually we would allow a screenshot of software to help identify the product in that article, but not in most other articles. If you can get a screenshot that doesn't have any copyrighted images contained in it (perhaps another screen that doesn't use album art), that would be easier to use. (ESkog) 04:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

LDLO redirect

Hello. In response to your request, please feel free to change the redirect at LDLO. I don't see any problem with it since Lowest published lethal dose already a hatnote that mentions the redirect and provides a link Lošinj Airport. To answer your other question, I'm not really familiar with the island or the airport; I created the redirect to filling in some missing redirects for ICAO airport codes. -- Zyxw (talk) 07:00, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Misplaced Pages pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 02:38, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Oxalate

Please comment on the proposed merger here.

Do not vandalize by removing content

You vandalized oxalate by removing content. I conclude that you view removing content that I contributed as a form of revenge for my removing your merge tag. Tags and content are viewed rather differently within wikipedia. One is information, and one is an opionion. Within Misplaced Pages, we value information above opinions, because information is directed at readership, and opinions are directed toward a handful of other editors. I consider your proposed merger tag as capricious in the sense that you have demonstrated no familiarity with the Chemistry project and your advice is contrary to a long running policy. Rather than being embittered, I encourage you to use your energies to edit.--Smokefoot (talk) 14:43, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

If that's your conclusion, then you're weak-minded as well as whiny. Don't quote policy unless you're prepared to cite policy. And do so on the article's Talk page, not here, so everyone can benefit. Yappy2bhere (talk) 17:13, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Rude Boy

Song article genres don't go by the artist's biography. It goes by influence and music, so when the IP user changes the genres again I might have to put the sources and report the IP user. Charmed36 (talk) 18:03, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I could be persuaded, quickly persuaded if you can point me to the relevant policy. However, I don't intend to mix it up with either one of you. What I offered was a rationale for both you and the IP to leave the box alone, at least until the single is released (if it is released; no announcement yet) and everyone stops tingling with excitement. That is, I think if you accept the rationale, then s/he will accept the rationale too (or else see it enforced by other editors), and you'll be free to do something more rewarding in the meantime than argue with an IP. If you can refrain for that long, I doubt you'll need three sources to support your edit. Though I am usually partial to copious citation. But opinions differ. Yappy2bhere (talk) 19:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of J. Futuristic

An article that you have been involved in editing, J. Futuristic, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/J. Futuristic. Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Niteshift36 (talk) 07:05, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: Dinner and a Movie (album) tracks

40 Glocc

Hello. I realize I've forgotten to introduce myself. You can obviously call me "JpGrB", or "JP" for short. Moving on.... Please note, I am not "stalking", but I do thank you for the confidence. I purely have many, many interests, and, from those interests, I edit and monitor on Misplaced Pages. In regards to the 40 Glocc page, I'd like to point out that on the MoS guideline page, it specifically states:

It then goes on to show how this should be done. In the case of rapper 40 Glocc, his legal name should come first. Thank you for your time and happy editing. --HELLØ ŦHERE 06:40, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Tha Grustle

An article that you have been involved in editing, Tha Grustle, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Tha Grustle. Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:55, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Leave me alone. --NewOrleans4Life (talk) 22:27, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Stop cribbing copyrighted content. Yappy2bhere (talk) 00:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Through the pain

This edit looks a little iffy. Why do you feel it isn't notable despite charting in three countries?—Kww(talk) 18:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Because there's no article really save for the chart ranks, and no material from which to improve the article. Yappy2bhere (talk) 18:09, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

On another topic, is the UK R&B chart tucked away inside Template:singlechart somewhere? Yappy2bhere (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Nope. No online archive to point to. I usually remove the UK R&B chart when I spot it because it isn't verifiable online.—Kww(talk) 19:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Billboard/Keri Hilson

Actually if you bothered to read discussions at WP:record charts you would see that AllMusic is the most credible source along with aCharts for U.S. charts. it is widely known that Billboard's website constantly plays up and show's incorrect info like it intially not showing that Get Your Money Up had charted. Allmusic is so credible that Billboard discographies are actually mirrored from allmusic. I have not inflated any of keri hilson's chart achievements. im not even that much of a fan... Lil-unique1 (talk) 23:30, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Believe it or not, squirt, Billboard is the primary source for all Billboard charts. AllMusic is a derivative source of Billboard charts, so if you want to argue that AllMusic is "the most credible source" along with the WP:BADCHARTS aCharts then you'd better cite a reliable reference for this extraordinary claim and not vaguely refer me to a WP Talk page. Yappy2bhere (talk) 02:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

Hi Yappy2bhere. Remember Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/TXR2? I'm inviting those who participated to related a discussion in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Thermal Exchanging Composite Materials. Sole Soul (talk) 18:07, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Redirects as "non-notable"

Hello. I notice that you have been deleting/redirecting a number of biographical articles such as with the edit summary of "not notable". I don't know the ins and outs of each case, but just taking this example, he was a member of parliament, and held minor office in government (thereby passing the criteria of WP:POLITICIAN: Politicians who have held international, national or sub-national (statewide/provincewide) office, and members and former members of a national, state or provincial legislature and judges.). The article seemed fairly well sourced, and didn't seem to fail WP:N. Is there any reason to not revert the redirect? Thanks. Lozleader (talk) 10:51, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Just noticed one of them was Foreign Secretary, so will revert! If that isn't notable....Lozleader (talk) 10:57, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Found a few that deserved articles per Notability Guidelines so reverted redirects. A lot of them aren't very good articles yet, mostly family history, but hopefully that can be trimmed or cut out and some content added. Lozleader (talk) 11:14, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

George Osborne, Commodore of the yacht club? (There's something very appealing about his portrait, don't you think?) You're right, I missed his election to the House of Commons, for which he should be restored. Francis Osborne, though, "was little more than a cipher" as foreign secretary, according to his article, so he was redirected accordingly. Now, I may have read more carefully the biography of the first or second Duke than, say, the ninth or tenth, so there could be other errors as you say. Thank you for correcting them.

Here's the rub: many of these articles appear to be cribbed, and a footnote understates the credit due. Redirecting biographies lacking notability only sweeps the issue under the rug, but it's more expedient than poring through peerages, and preserves content that may motivate original articles on individuals with more than family history. I think it unlikely that family men of past centuries will emerge as notable figures today, but opinions differ. There's always WP:AfD to resolve substantially different views. Let me see first what's been done. Yappy2bhere (talk) 22:06, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

• I have undone as many of these as I could find, including your bizarre assertion that someone who was twice Prime Minister was "non notable". I have also undone your bypassing of redirects on disambiguation pages, as your actions there were contrary to guidleines and unhelpful to editors and readers. Please cease all this kind of activity until you have a much better understanding of Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. DuncanHill (talk) 13:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Very generous of you to credit me with acting in ignorance, but in fact it was probably an outright error if what you say is true. Undecidable as yet, since you don't say which article you're hot about or which policy or guideline you believe I've transgressed. Never mind; where you're correct your changes will stand, and the others you can defend at WP:AfD. Yappy2bhere (talk) 22:14, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

The 2nd Marquess of Rockingham. Did you even bother to read the lead paragraph? You've already been referred to WP:POLITICIAN, which covers all the MPs you chose to redirect. Some of the others were Lord Lieutenants, again this is sufficuent for notability. As for changing the redirects on the dab pages - one generally should not bypass redirects, as it only adds to server load, and it also makes life harder for anyone writing an article to replace the redirect. If you decide to start nominating MPs and prime ministers for AfD en masse you are likely to find yourself blocked for disruption. DuncanHill (talk) 22:21, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Please read WP:R2D about redirects. DuncanHill (talk) 22:23, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but evidently not carefully, nor the sections "Prime Minister (1765–1766)" or "Prime Minister (1782)" that followed. Thank you for correcting the error. However, if you read to the end of the article you'll see that "Lord Lieutenant" is but an honorary title. A vanity title alone would not establish notability. I doubt an MP by birthright is notable either without evidence of notable activity as an MP, but that's a question to be settled in a larger forum such as WP:AfD. Hyperbole isn't helpful; I'll not be "nominating MPs and prime ministers for AfD en masse." ("I know those words, but that sign makes no sense.") Yappy2bhere (talk) 22:52, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

If you think that our notability criteria should be changed to exclude MPs, then propose the change on the relevant page. Using AfD as a backdoor way to change policy helps no-one. Lord Lieutenant has historically been a very important position. I will add that if someone is notable enough for the DNB (an encyclopaedia of record edited by professionals), then they are certainly notable enough for Misplaced Pages. DuncanHill (talk) 22:56, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

With respect to Yappy2bhere, the office of Lord Lieutenant is not – as you imply – merely "a vanity title". Whatever you think of the constitutional arrangements of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, you should not confuse 'ceremony' with 'vanity'. The Lord Lieutenant of a county or ceremonial county is the Queen's personal representative and the role still confers great prestige on the office-holder; it is, moreover, of historical importance in constitutional terms.

It is indisputably the case that Lord Lieutenant office-holders meet the criteria of WP:NOTABLE: If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria... and ...there must be verifiable objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention by the world at large to support a claim of notability.

Holders of the office of Lord Lieutenant meet Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion: so, for that matter, does any person who is, or has been, elected as a Member of Parliament.

ODNB articles

You claimed that I would be illegally distributing a copyrighted article if I sent you a copy of the ODNB article. That is untrue. The ODNB website includes an "email this article" feature. I suggest you ask at your local library for access, you would find it a wonderful resoource to help you improve your editing. DuncanHill (talk) 11:49, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

"You may request privacy, and I may honour such a request, but I am not bound by it." You are an unprincipled boob, DuncanHill. Of course I am not going to give you my email address. Go away. Yappy2bhere (talk) 08:37, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Rude.

You're rude. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.190.60.1 (talk) 04:30, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Disney

I am not writing from Disney.com so I have no idea what you are talking about so byeeee —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.190.60.1 (talk) 04:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC) You will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages forever if you keep adding stuff that is not true so stop before you become banned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.190.60.1 (talk) 05:53, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Merry Christmas

	Happy new year!
	We wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year! Pass a Method talk 20:50, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Xmas socks

Hi.

In this comment, you have accused me of sock-puppeting.

In addition, I find it grossly insulting for you to claim that "Chzz had been evicted from Misplaced Pages after he was caught trying to steal an admin for himself with a sockpuppet army"

I would like a full retraction and apology. You are grossly mistaken. I hope you will discuss this, and we can come to some accord without further action.

On my part, if you will simply strike your comments, I'd be happy to move along. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  21:58, 26 December 2011 (UTC)