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Revision as of 17:56, 29 January 2012 editRet.Prof (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers15,357 edits I was using self-published sources?? If that is true then my edits were rightly deleted!← Previous edit		Revision as of 20:31, 29 January 2012 edit undoDoug Weller (talk \| contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Oversighters, Administrators264,159 edits →You are right about WP:HOUND: example of an spsNext edit →
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	:The accusation of harassment superficially seems like whining and a way to evade cleanup, but this is actually part of a complex dispute going back over a year and spanning at least half a dozen articles. I think both parties were ] in the beginning, but nerves have been rubbed raw due to the protracted nature of the dispute and civility has suffered as a result. Ret.Prof's decision to step back from this category is probably for the best. There are plenty of other articles that could use improvement. ] (]) 16:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)		:The accusation of harassment superficially seems like whining and a way to evade cleanup, but this is actually part of a complex dispute going back over a year and spanning at least half a dozen articles. I think both parties were ] in the beginning, but nerves have been rubbed raw due to the protracted nature of the dispute and civility has suffered as a result. Ret.Prof's decision to step back from this category is probably for the best. There are plenty of other articles that could use improvement. ] (]) 16:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
	::Yes one of the reasons for deleting my edits was that I was using self-published sources. Doug would you list the "self-published sources" you are referring to? - ] (]) 17:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)		::Yes one of the reasons for deleting my edits was that I was using self-published sources. Doug would you list the "self-published sources" you are referring to? - ] (]) 17:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
			:::I mentioned Donald R. Nuss, ''The Anatomies of God'' in one of my edit summaries. Listed as published by 'Universe' but actually by ]. No time to go through more. ] (]) 20:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:31, 29 January 2012

'Misplaced Pages does not care about you or me being qualified scholars. Misplaced Pages is not a scholarly site, but a summary of sources that speak for themselves. We all have the right to edit, but there are rules to make sure that proper sources are used for appropriate articles and editors are civil. If you want to accuse me of a Christian bias:

Please read this.
At Misplaced Pages we must all try to edit from a NPOV. On occasion my Faith has been called into question. Indeed some have honestly wondered how I can write what I have about the Historical Jesus and still be a Christian. The answer is simple, my relationship with God never had anything to do with history or archeology. Let me explain... Christianity not relevant in our modern world As a young litigation lawyer, I believed in God, but felt that Christianity was no longer relevant in our modern world. Jesus' teachings such as "Thou shalt not kill" "Love your enemy" "You can not serve both God and Money" were just not relevant in these modern times. I believed in the death penalty, war, material wealth. I did unto others before they did unto me. I did not get angry, I got even...and a bit! Spiritual awakening Then, a series of events made me reconsider my beliefs and come to the conclusion that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was still relevant today. I read a great deal about people who still believed in the Gospel, including Mahatma Gandhi, Dr Martin Luther King Jr., etc., etc. This led to a Spiritual awaking that forever changed my life. South Africa It was here, working for Archbishop Desmond Tutu, that my faith was put to the test. Could love and non violence really bring down the Apartheid government? We were out-gunned, out-matched in every way. What the Archbishop was preaching made no earthly sense. Yet before my eyes I witnessed this racist government fall. As I stepped out in faith on a daily basis, I experienced God in a real way. In my heart I came to believe that the Gospel of Christ was the most powerful force in the Universe. The Roman Empire never stood a chance. Nor did the British Empire in India, or, for that matter, Segregation in the South. Twelve Step Program Several years later I was approached by a group who wanted to use my Church. They explained to me that their program was basic Christianity without many of the offensive "buzz words" that had been added over the years. Confessing that we were miserable sinners became "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol or drugs etc -- that our lives had become unmanageable." Faith was changed to "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." Accepting Jesus Christ as our Personal Saviour became "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him." Accepting that we had all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God was changed to "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves." Making our confession was reworded to "Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs." Repentance became "Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character." Bin saved became "Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings." "Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all." "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others." Continued confession became "Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it." "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out." Born Again & Witnessing became "Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs." This simplified "Gospel" has transformed the lives of millions. It is truly powerful regardless of the packaging. My faith finds form in Anglicanism because of the freedom from "strict dogma", but I have seen the power of Christ in all denominations. Walking with Christ for these many, many years has given me a faith that allows me to edit Misplaced Pages from a NPOV. The reason is that my faith is not based on the "historical evidence" that has survived to 2011 but rather it is based upon my experience over a very very long time...

Please read this.

At Misplaced Pages we must all try to edit from a NPOV. On occasion my Faith has been called into question. Indeed some have honestly wondered how I can write what I have about the Historical Jesus and still be a Christian. The answer is simple, my relationship with God never had anything to do with history or archeology. Let me explain...

Christianity not relevant in our modern world As a young litigation lawyer, I believed in God, but felt that Christianity was no longer relevant in our modern world. Jesus' teachings such as "Thou shalt not kill" "Love your enemy" "You can not serve both God and Money" were just not relevant in these modern times. I believed in the death penalty, war, material wealth. I did unto others before they did unto me. I did not get angry, I got even...and a bit!

Spiritual awakening Then, a series of events made me reconsider my beliefs and come to the conclusion that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was still relevant today. I read a great deal about people who still believed in the Gospel, including Mahatma Gandhi, Dr Martin Luther King Jr., etc., etc. This led to a Spiritual awaking that forever changed my life.

South Africa It was here, working for Archbishop Desmond Tutu, that my faith was put to the test. Could love and non violence really bring down the Apartheid government? We were out-gunned, out-matched in every way. What the Archbishop was preaching made no earthly sense. Yet before my eyes I witnessed this racist government fall. As I stepped out in faith on a daily basis, I experienced God in a real way. In my heart I came to believe that the Gospel of Christ was the most powerful force in the Universe. The Roman Empire never stood a chance. Nor did the British Empire in India, or, for that matter, Segregation in the South.

Twelve Step Program Several years later I was approached by a group who wanted to use my Church. They explained to me that their program was basic Christianity without many of the offensive "buzz words" that had been added over the years.

Confessing that we were miserable sinners became "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol or drugs etc -- that our lives had become unmanageable."
Faith was changed to "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
Accepting Jesus Christ as our Personal Saviour became "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him."
Accepting that we had all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God was changed to "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."
Making our confession was reworded to "Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs."
Repentance became "Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character."
Bin saved became "Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings."
"Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all."
"Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
Continued confession became "Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it."
"Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out."
Born Again & Witnessing became "Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs."

This simplified "Gospel" has transformed the lives of millions. It is truly powerful regardless of the packaging. My faith finds form in Anglicanism because of the freedom from "strict dogma", but I have seen the power of Christ in all denominations. Walking with Christ for these many, many years has given me a faith that allows me to edit Misplaced Pages from a NPOV. The reason is that my faith is not based on the "historical evidence" that has survived to 2011 but rather it is based upon my experience over a very very long time...

Talk Page Archives:
Archive 1 (2008)
Archive 2 (2009)
Archive 3 (2010)
Archive 4 (2011)

About my talk page comments

I hope you will consider this to be very mild constructive criticism. I have noticed you add a lot of references to primary sources directly to articles. While that is a fairly common practice, an article referenced in this way can never become WP:GA without a major cleanup. It is a huge amount of work for other editors to come along later and try to match up all the primary sources to reliable secondary references. Of course, that assumes a reliable secondary reference can be found which mentions the primary source. This is one reason why we have so many articles that are self-promoted to B-class articles and never go through peer review. Best. Ignocrates (talk) 15:45, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes a balance of both are important. Your comments are always constructive and generally more than helpful. Cheers - Ret.Prof (talk) 00:43, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

You are right about WP:HOUND

I owe you an apology about Oculi. You were right about him! -- cheers, Michael C. Price 08:25, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Now the question is what to do. That is part of the reason I am stepping back. - Ret.Prof (talk) 09:43, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I am a specialist in pattern recognition, so perhaps I can see what others cannot (or choose not to) see. I believe a particular editor intends to WP:HOUND you on every article you work on until you are driven from this encyclopedia, unless you put a stop to it. Ignocrates (talk) 21:43, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I think it has already begun. Now the question is what is the correct response. I am going to need some guidance. I am requesting Admin help. - Ret.Prof (talk) 22:42, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you seek out the help of a well-known and highly respected Admin, but one with whom you have no prior edit history whatsoever. That will minimize the accusations of bias and collusion that will surely follow. See also, essays on WP:GRIEFING and WP:What is a troll? that may provide helpful background information. Ignocrates (talk) 23:19, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there is little doubt I have upset a "group of editors" (sock puppets?) who are deleting everything I write. -Ret.Prof (talk) 03:35, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

It's not an issue of "upset", please read WP:Fringe. Misplaced Pages is not a blog. However you can develop fringe/minority theories on specific articles about those theories if you have modern sources and maintain WP:NPOV. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I have and my edits are valid. Please read Misplaced Pages:Canvassing & WP:HOUND - Ret.Prof (talk) 14:47, 28 January 2012 (UTC) .

This might be a good time to seek that outside admin help. I suggest you consider talking to Dab as a place to start. From my experience, Dab is a tough but fair admin, and he is a good resource to get this ongoing problem under control. Cheers. Ignocrates (talk) 16:29, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi RetProf re your message:

Misplaced Pages:Canvassing & WP:HOUND

Please stop! Bullying and intimidation are not the way to go. Ictu, Please read Misplaced Pages:Canvassing & WP:HOUND - Ret.Prof (talk) 14:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Notifying WP Project Bible/Christianity of Talk:Gospel does not count as Misplaced Pages:Canvassing, if you look at the Talk page head you will see that the article is part of the project. As for WP:HOUND, well, what am I supposed to say - naturally I have the articles to which you added the same fringe material on my watch-list from 6 months ago. I don't see what has changed, this is still fringe material and the WP:Weight concerns are still justified. As I said, you can develop fringe/minority theories on specific articles about those theories if you have modern sources and maintain WP:NPOV. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I srongly suggest that you drop these accusations of sockpuppetry and hounding. These are personal attacks and certainly do not help your case. If you've actually read WP:HOUND it says "The important component of wikihounding is disruption to another user's own enjoyment of editing, or to the project generally, for no overriding reason. If "following another user around" is accompanied by tendentiousness, personal attacks, or other disruptive behavior, it may become a very serious matter and could result in blocks and other editing restrictions." That's not what is happening here. In ictu oculi has legitimate concerns about your edits and has a right to express those. Dougweller (talk) 10:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I am again stepping back as WP:HOUND has made it impossible for me to edit. - Ret.Prof (talk) 14:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Probably a good idea, as continuing with such accusations would probably end up with your being reported somewhere. Of course, the reason you are being reverted has nothing to do with hounding and everything to do with your edits, including using self-published sources, original research, etc. Dougweller (talk) 15:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

The accusation of harassment superficially seems like whining and a way to evade cleanup, but this is actually part of a complex dispute going back over a year and spanning at least half a dozen articles. I think both parties were WP:AGF in the beginning, but nerves have been rubbed raw due to the protracted nature of the dispute and civility has suffered as a result. Ret.Prof's decision to step back from this category is probably for the best. There are plenty of other articles that could use improvement. Ignocrates (talk) 16:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes one of the reasons for deleting my edits was that I was using self-published sources. Doug would you list the "self-published sources" you are referring to? - Ret.Prof (talk) 17:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I mentioned Donald R. Nuss, The Anatomies of God in one of my edit summaries. Listed as published by 'Universe' but actually by iUniverse. No time to go through more. Dougweller (talk) 20:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)