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Revision as of 20:46, 7 March 2012 editTim! (talk | contribs)962,359 edits →Anime films by year of first release: +++← Previous edit Revision as of 20:51, 7 March 2012 edit undoAndy Dingley (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers160,385 edits →Category:King Crimson album covers by P J CrookNext edit →
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:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Delete'''. Overcategorization. There are schemes for ] and ] (as well as ]), but it's not clear that we need one for the intersection of a visual artist and a recording artist. —]❤]☮]☺]☯ 20:29, 7 March 2012 (UTC) :'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''Delete'''. Overcategorization. There are schemes for ] and ] (as well as ]), but it's not clear that we need one for the intersection of a visual artist and a recording artist. —]❤]☮]☺]☯ 20:29, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
:'''Keep'''. King Crimson has more than 100 albums, of which several have at least 2 covers, and Misplaced Pages has dozens of articles on the albums. So the KC album cover category is exceeds the comfortable size of WP categories. Furthermore, the artist ] is a notable artist, a member of a Royal Academy, and King-Crimson covers are a large portion of her portfolio, at least according to her biography here (and others at the Royal Academy). Most importantly, the King Crimson covers are the only fair-use examples of her work known to me; the present category thus is the most useful collection of her work extant on Misplaced Pages. Thanks, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 20:36, 7 March 2012 (UTC) :'''Keep'''. King Crimson has more than 100 albums, of which several have at least 2 covers, and Misplaced Pages has dozens of articles on the albums. So the KC album cover category is exceeds the comfortable size of WP categories. Furthermore, the artist ] is a notable artist, a member of a Royal Academy, and King-Crimson covers are a large portion of her portfolio, at least according to her biography here (and others at the Royal Academy). Most importantly, the King Crimson covers are the only fair-use examples of her work known to me; the present category thus is the most useful collection of her work extant on Misplaced Pages. Thanks, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 20:36, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' This is a notable artist and she's notable particularly for her work with King Crimson. If her work has appeared on other band's album covers, it's news to me. For many album cover art artists, their notable work is only, or particularly, that with a particular band. If we're doing prog rock, then Roger Dean & Yes are the obvious other example, even if he also did covers for Asia and Budgie (probably others too). Hipgnosis did work for lots of bands, but their Pink Floyd covers would stand for notability just on their own.
: If we don't yet have categorization for notable collaborations between artists and bands, then maybe it's about time we did. ] (]) 20:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


==== Category:Categories of athletics ==== ==== Category:Categories of athletics ====

Revision as of 20:51, 7 March 2012

< March 6 March 8 >

March 7

NEW NOMINATIONS

Anime films by year of first release

Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1983 to Category:1983 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1984 to Category:1984 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1985 to Category:1985 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1986 to Category:1986 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1987 to Category:1987 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1988 to Category:1988 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1989 to Category:1989 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1990 to Category:1990 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1991 to Category:1991 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1992 to Category:1992 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1993 to Category:1993 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1994 to Category:1994 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1995 to Category:1995 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1996 to Category:1996 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1997 to Category:1997 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1998 to Category:1998 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 1999 to Category:1999 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2000 to Category:2000 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2001 to Category:2001 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2002 to Category:2002 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2003 to Category:2003 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2004 to Category:2004 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2005 to Category:2005 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2006 to Category:2006 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2007 to Category:2007 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2008 to Category:2008 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2009 to Category:2009 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2010 to Category:2010 anime films
Propose renaming Category:Anime film of 2011 to Category:2011 anime films
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Film should be made plural and year anime films is more natural subcategory of year films than Anime films of year. Tim! (talk) 20:44, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:King Crimson album covers by P J Crook

Category:King Crimson album covers by P J Crook - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Overcategorization. There are schemes for Category:Album covers by recording artist and Category:Album covers by author (as well as Category:Albums by cover artist), but it's not clear that we need one for the intersection of a visual artist and a recording artist. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:29, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Keep. King Crimson has more than 100 albums, of which several have at least 2 covers, and Misplaced Pages has dozens of articles on the albums. So the KC album cover category is exceeds the comfortable size of WP categories. Furthermore, the artist P J Crook is a notable artist, a member of a Royal Academy, and King-Crimson covers are a large portion of her portfolio, at least according to her biography here (and others at the Royal Academy). Most importantly, the King Crimson covers are the only fair-use examples of her work known to me; the present category thus is the most useful collection of her work extant on Misplaced Pages. Thanks,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:36, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Keep This is a notable artist and she's notable particularly for her work with King Crimson. If her work has appeared on other band's album covers, it's news to me. For many album cover art artists, their notable work is only, or particularly, that with a particular band. If we're doing prog rock, then Roger Dean & Yes are the obvious other example, even if he also did covers for Asia and Budgie (probably others too). Hipgnosis did work for lots of bands, but their Pink Floyd covers would stand for notability just on their own.
If we don't yet have categorization for notable collaborations between artists and bands, then maybe it's about time we did. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:Categories of athletics

Category:Categories of athletics - not sure what to make of this. Should this be upmerged to Category:Athletics? - jc37 18:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:Electricians who committed suicide

Category:Electricians who committed suicide - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete since the intersection of the two is not a defining characteristic. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 18:26, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
The parent and sub-cats had been previously put up for deletion at Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_October_3#Category:Suicides_by_occupation. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 18:31, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Delete - meaningless overcharacterization. --Orange Mike | Talk 18:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:Cigar makers

Propose splitting Category:Cigar makers to Category:Cigar brands and Category:?
Nominator's rationale: This category's name is ambiguous, as is shown by the presence of three different types of members. First, there are cigar manufacturers, which I propose to move over to Category:Cigar brands. Then there are people who started or owned cigar companies, including a few boutique makers who may well roll cigars themselves. Finally, there is a group of union activists and politicians who happen to have started out as cigar rollers. I'm not sure what to name either of the two latter groups, and I'm doubtful that the last group even ought to have a category to themselves. In any case, we need something clearer than the current name, and it seems to me that there needs to be a split between the two groups of people if both are retained. Mangoe (talk) 14:24, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:Ancient Georgian tribes

Category:Ancient Georgian tribes - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: The categorization should be uncontroversial. In this case the provenance of some peoples, included in this category (Abasgoi, Heniochi, ...) is subject to a controversy and has political implications (see History of Abkhazia, History of Georgia. Thus I think that this category should be transformed to a list, where it would be possible to add explanatory comments to its elements. Alæxis¿question? 11:57, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:BSD

Propose renaming Category:BSD to Category:Berkeley Software Distribution
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Berkeley Software Distribution is often abbreviated to "BSD", but that abbreviation is ambiguous: BSD (disambiguation). (When I see this category I think of the Bahamas dollar.) Berkeley Software Distribution might even be the primary meaning of BSD, but given that the applicable article is at Berkeley Software Distribution, the naming conventions would suggest renaming to match the article. Good Ol’factory 07:22, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Western Kentucky Hilltoppers and Lady Hilltoppers

Proposed renaming:
Nominator's rationale: For several years now, the athletic department of Western Kentucky University (WKU) is emphasizing the use of WKU instead of Western Kentucky for all athletic teams. All of the individual articles have recently been moved to reflect the change, this group category move would compliment the existing changes. NThomas (talk) 07:03, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Anti-Catholicism

  • Weak oppose I doubt the logic. Criticism and anti-Catholicism are pretty far apart. Not all criticism of Catholicism (read: debate) is anti-Catholicism (read: hatred, persecution and the like). The current content of the category seems more related to the latter. If you want to rename mormon-related categories, go ahead, but this does not seem to be the right move. Also, the entry now reads "critism". Place Clichy (talk) 09:34, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Demonymic Old Fooians

Propose renaming:
Nominator's rationale: Rename all, to a standardised descriptive format (see WP:NDESC) which incorporates the title of the head article. This clarifies the purpose of the categories to the non-specialist reader for whom Misplaced Pages is written, by eliminating obscurity and ambiguity.
The proposed names follow the "People educated at Foo" convention of Category:People educated by school in the United Kingdom.
There is a fundamental problem with this whole type of collective name, as expressed most eloquently by Moonraker (talk · contribs) in another recent discussion: "there are very few references anywhere to people educated at a particular school (including this one) as a group". That's exactly why these "Old Fooian" terms don't work well for category names: they are rarely used, and therefore unknown to the general readership for whom Misplaced Pages is written. However, even if editors accept the use of "Old Fooian" collective terms for other schools, these are unworkable examples of the format ... because they also use the demonym for the town, village or parish in which they are located.
The use of demonyms as category names for people is specifically deprecated in the Categorization of people guideline. That issue was settled at CfD back in July 2006 and has been incorporated in the guideline since at least August 2006.
So a reader who encounters these categories will be confronted with a rarely-used term, which on further examination they may recognise as being for people from a town or village. Even if the reader leaps those two hurdles and recognises it as reference to alumni of a school, they still cannot reliably infer which school is involved, because many of these "Fooian" names are ambiguous (e.g. Taunton, Brecon, and Bury St Edmunds all have more than one school).
A possible counter-argument is that these names are an exception to Monnraker's observation of rare usage, so I checked on Google News. (I chose Google News rather than a general search, because the News publications are both reliable sources and widely-read. A general Google search is less useful in establishing the currency of a term, because it brings up self-published material, web forums, and other unreliable sources, and includes results on pages with minute readerships).
A search for "Old Etonian" produced 4,290 hits, confirming my hunch that "Old Etonian" has entered general usage. However, only 2 of these schools gets into double-figures on Google News, and even the better of those results 22 hits for the "Old Cranleighans" includes only 2 usages referring to alumni. Here are the results:
Articles Category School GNews hits Notes
55 Old Ardinians Ardingly College 2
42 Old Berkhamstedians Berkhamsted Collegiate School 0
3 Old Barrovians Furness Academy 17 16 false positives. All but one hit refers to the town, as in "said the proud 26-year-old Barrovian"
10 Old Batelians Batley Grammar School 1
35 Old Breconians Christ College, Brecon 3
17 Old Bridgnorthians Bridgnorth Endowed School 0
9 Old Burians King Edward VI School (Bury St Edmunds) 6
14 Old Brutonians King's School, Bruton ⋅ 0
34 Old Cranleighans Cranleigh School 22 20 of the 22 hits relate to the Old Cranleighan sports club. They are used as the name of a club, rather than as a collective term for the school's alumni
28 Old Denstonians Denstone College 0
5 Old Dysseans Diss Grammar School 1
87 Old Felstedians Felsted School 0
21 Old Giggleswickians Giggleswick School 1
8 Old Headingtonians Headington School, Oxford 0
35 Old Llandoverians Llandovery College 0
3 Old Midhurstians Midhurst Grammar School 0
40 Old Oakhamians Oakham School 4
18 Old Pangbournians Pangbourne College 1
72 Old Sedberghians Sedbergh School 5
6 Old Strandians Strand School 0
29 Old Tauntonians Taunton School 4 1 false positive: "he 34-year-old Tauntonian was at the"
12 Old West Bucklands West Buckland School 1 false positive: "19-year-old West Buckland man"
18 Old Worksopians Worksop College 1 false positive: "24-year-old Worksopian"
11 Old Wrekinians Wrekin College 0
I draw two conclusions from that table:
  1. That the most widely-used of these terms is used only one-200th as much as "Old Etonian". The rest are basically unknown in mainstream usage.
  2. That the number of articles in the category is no indicator of the notability of the term. That surprised me, because I thought that a school with more notable alumni would see wider usage of its "Old Fooian" jargon, but this appears not to be the case.
None of these categories relate to what may be called "major public schools" (i.e. the Clarendon schools or those in the Rugby Group and/or Eton Group). The figures for those schools may look different. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:14, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Discussion (demonymic Old Fooians)
  • Rename when the only uses of some of these terms that turned up were false positives, it is high time that we renamed them.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:54, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Rename per nom. This is a very good analysis done by the nominator. Sometimes I think people just make these names up, because they sure don't seem to be very popular in usage. But even if they are used, they are not very good category names because they are obscure, jargon-y, often ambiguous, and unclear in meaning. Good Ol’factory 06:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Rename per nom. Oculi (talk) 11:44, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Rename. GOF's "make these names up" question reminds me of phobias or collective nouns for animals; where there wasn't one before, someone needed to make one up regardless of whether it made any sense at all. (Also, I can't stop saying "Old Giggleswickians.")--Mike Selinker (talk) 15:47, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:Enumerated defendants

Category:Enumerated defendants - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete. WP:OCAT by similarities of article name. Listification may be fine, but categorization isn't. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 05:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Keep. This is more than similarity by article name. Significantly, these are all groups of defendants who have had names assigned to them for the purposes of rallying public support, all in the (by now) traditional manner, enumeration. Quatloo (talk) 07:27, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Strong keep per Quatloo. If the focus on a numeric title for these groups is a problem, then would not object to a renaming of the category. However, in the absence of an alternative to "enumerated defendants", the current seems to me to be simplest way of conveying the category's purpose, which is to lists those groups of defendants who have become known by a collective name. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:Suffrage campaign in the United Kingdom

Propose renaming Category:Suffrage campaign in the United Kingdom to Category:Womens suffrage in the United Kingdom Category:Women's suffrage in the United Kingdom.
Nominator's rationale: per convention at Category:Women's suffrage by country. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 03:14, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Albums by city of recording location

Category:Albums by city of recording location - Template:Lc1
List of all "Albums by city" categories included in this nomination
Category:Albums recorded in Australia by city
Category:Albums recorded in the United Kingdom by city
Category:Albums recorded in the United States by city
Category:Albums recorded in Liverpool
Category:Albums recorded in London
Category:Albums recorded in Sydney
Category:Albums recorded in Toronto
Category:Albums recorded in Vancouver
Category:Albums recorded in Austin, Texas
Category:Albums recorded in Chicago, Illinois
Category:Albums recorded in Seattle, Washington
Category:Albums recorded in Portland, Oregon
Category:Albums recorded in Houston, Texas
Category:Albums recorded in San Francisco, California
Category:Albums recorded in Los Angeles, California
Category:Albums recorded in the Las Vegas Valley
Category:Albums recorded in New York City
Nominator's rationale: Delete. In what city an album was recorded (studio albums, in particular) is not a defining characteristic of the album. I'm not so against the categorization of albums recorded at specific locations such as Category:Albums recorded at Abbey Road Studios and maybe this scheme was developed to provide parents for such categories by a geographical location, but what can happen is exemplified by Category:Albums recorded in Seattle, Washington, where it seems any album recorded there has been placed in the category (but, again, it's a non-defining characteristic in my opinion). Personally, all I think we need is Category:Albums by recording location and a child cat Category:Live albums by venue, populated by subcategories of specific recording studios or concert halls, respectively.
However, I will wait on some consensus here to determine if Category:Albums by country of recording location and Category:Live albums by city of recording location can be legitimate parents because even if an album such as Good Evening New York City has a defining aspect of being a Live album recorded in New York City, I still don't think we need the nominated Category:Albums recorded in New York City just because it fits a scheme. Note that there was a CFD a year ago on Category:Albums recorded in Los Angeles, California (see WP:CFD/2011 Feb 19) in which the result was delete. Apologies for the verbose rationale and thank you for bearing with it. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars 01:54, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:Greek enclaves in Northern Cyprus

Propose renaming Category:Greek enclaves in Northern Cyprus to Category:Maronite villages in Northern Cyprus
Nominator's rationale: This is a badly named and badly applied category. Formerly it included only one village, a school, and one individual. I've added the other villages mentioned and removed the other items (which clearly aren't individuals), but the title still isn't correct.
These aren't enclaves in the common sense of the word, which is a geographically surrounded political unit. They aren't exclaves of Greece, which is what I first read. When the term exclave is used, it is to note how they retained a Greek population when others evacuated to southern Cyprus, and are now surrounded by Turks. Calling them Maronite villages identifies them just as well, and without any political overtones or abstract use of the word enclave. CMD (talk) 00:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)