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149th PA Infantry

Thanks for your kind words on the 125th PA article. My goal has been to provide the 125th Pennsylvania Infantry with the finest Misplaced Pages page for any Civil War regiment. As you requested, the 'After Muster' section has been started. Definitely, I have an further interest in editing.--Donaldecoho (talk) 01:31, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

According to your request, I cleaned up several loose citations on the 125th PA page today--Donaldecoho (talk) 21:47, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not descended from the 149th PA Infantry, but they lost 75% at Gettysburg and I'm sensing disrespect (for the Regiment from posterity). The PA Section at the Gettysburg National Cemetery (I live near G'burg) is LOADED with 149th PA, and I cannot understand WHY they don't show up on the following list of most devastated regiments:

Regiment Battle Casualties Percent
1.) 1st Texas, CSA Antietam 226 82.3%
2.) 1st Minnesota, US Gettysburg 262 82%
3.) 21st Georgia, CSA Manassas 242 76%
4.) 141st Pennsylvania, US Gettysburg 198 75.7%
5.) 101st New York, US Manassas 168 73.8%
6.) 6th Mississippi, CSA Shiloh 425 70.5%
7.) 25th Massachusetts, US Cold Harbor 310 70%
8.) 26th North Carolina, CSA Gettysburg 588 69.8%
9.) 36th Wisconsin, US Bethesda Church 240 69%
10.) 20th Massachusetts, US Fredericksburg 238 68.4%
11.) 8th Tennessee, CSA Stone's River 444 68.7%
12.) 10th Tennessee, CSA Chickamauga 328 68%
13.) 8th Vermont, US Cedar Creek 156 67.9%
14.) Palmetto Sharpshooters, CSA Frayser's Farm 215 67.7%
15.) 81st Pennsylvania, US Fredericksburg 261 67.4%

I may have to adopt a(n) (unjustly disrespected) regiment.--Donaldecoho (talk) 00:44, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

1. Civil War Talk. "The Top 15 Regiments' Highest Percentage Casualties Single Battle". Retrieved 28 March 2012.

back

Great! Welcome back. By coincidence, I am in Chattanooga for a week, so will have a very low profile until I return. Hal Jespersen (talk) 02:34, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

John Stone Stone

hi BusterD - I'm dying with the flu this very moment so forgive me if this doesn't make much sense.... I've been working on the Civil War section called Grand Army of the Republic (GAR) at Mt Hope Cemetery. For another Findagraver Jeff Malone - http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=mr&MRid=46834479. He's working with a group who is replacing lost and broken Civil War Veteran headstones. I also take random headstone shots and try to connect the family outside of GAR.

I found the gravesites, took the photos of John, his mother and sister. They are all are all buried along side each other just outside of GAR. From what I read I think they should be inside GAR but its truly a few feet out. The headstones are about 3'x4' I wanted and don't know how to add JSS headstone, its very interesting and is crumbling and will go missing in the years to come. I feel this history shouldn't be lost. Jeff, who is retired military, was so excited and seemed to be distantly related. I decided to keep my goal and unite family members so I transfered them.

Jeanne Stone Stone http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=stone&GSmid=46834479&GRid=79304745& John Stone Stone http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=79304711 Egypta Todassantis Stone Wilson http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Wilson&GSmid=46834479&GRid=79880618& Gordon Wilson http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=79885241 Note Egypta dates are missing so I'm wondering if they didn't add them as a request. forgot, or buried her elsewhere.

As a side note when I first saw the headstone I thought John had a great sense of humor.... meaning John Stone Stone (as in John Stone's headstone) and it just tickled me - I love a good sense of humor. Then I saw the rest of the family and decided there was more to it. I've been around Radio for the last 30 yrs so I called my good friend who explained more about JSS. He's been on the air for the last 40 years and is also the VP of IT and smart as a whip! (Funny too)

Jeff and I were going to write a bio about JSS - but maybe we should use part of yours and give you credit. If both you and Jeff are up for that.

Do you live in San Diego?

LizLooking4family (talk) 04:55, 14 November 2011 (UTC) Looking4family

Hello BusterD!

I'm back from the dead and have survived one more flu season - Although I'll never complain about the weight loss! heee heee

I was back out at Mt Hope yesterday and asked for a print out on Egypta Stone Wilson. This shows a map of the cemetery and a close up the section the Stone / Wilsons are buried in. It doesnt provide a birth date but the date of death is listed as October 1, 1947. I'm happy to PDF a copy to you but can we use regular email? If so please contact me here: looking4family1@gmail.com (Basically I've failed at Wiki talk page)

Also the plot info has been updated for the 3 Stone family members and hubby Wilson on fingagrave.com. I was wondering if you want John Stone Stone's headstone on the wikipage?

Looking4family (talk) 15:54, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Hudson Valley meetups and events

Thought you might be interested in this: Misplaced Pages:Meetup/Albany-Capital Region.--Pharos (talk) 05:06, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/SuperKombat (3rd nomination)

Because you participated in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/SuperKombat (2nd nomination), you may be interested in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/SuperKombat (3rd nomination). Cunard (talk) 06:55, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

December 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States

The December 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

 
--Kumioko (talk) 03:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

You aren't an administrator

What is this? Most people said Keep, and made a good case for keeping it. Your closing arguments show you don't really know what you are doing. "Since page isn't overly promotional, and the page appears to pass GNG, I'll close this as no consensus to delete." If it passes GNG then its a keep. Wait for someone the community has placed some trust in and voted into the position of administrator to close things like that. Dream Focus 19:29, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I stand by my closure. In the past you and I have disagreed, but I never expected such a mean-spirited critique! I'll concede I'm not an administrator. I'll further concede that some closers would have closed the process as "keep". Immediately after my close I asked an administrator I agree with to look over my work and assess my closure. That person tended to agree with your assessment about outcome, but understood part of my rationale (which you failed to quote) as an explanation for my "no consensus" outcome. IMHO, the page in question might need to be relisted for deletion one day as a PR-related work. BusterD (talk) 20:33, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Having anyone randomly able to close something which isn't 100% certain one way or the other, would lead to all sorts of problems. And closing as no consensus is worse than just leaving it open, since someone will just nominate it again, and waste everyone's time with a repeat. Dream Focus 20:49, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

From my standpoint, in this particular case, closing as no consensus is better than just leaving it open, because at some point someone might NEED to put it up again (and discussing valid deletion process is rarely a waste of the community's time.) Perhaps it's time to put myself to the question... BusterD (talk) 20:54, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

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Nomination

I have nominated you for the RFa gauntlet!....

....you have some questions to answer there as well as accept the nomination...if you want me to add details or similar let me know...but others will be adding questions as well...better you than me! Let me know when you're ready and I'll put the Rfa up for discussion....--MONGO 00:40, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

In addition...look this over--MONGO 01:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

That's very kind of you, old friend. I'll accept your nomination, and I'm composing my answers. I've asked one or two of my oldest wikifriends to co-nominate before I accept. BusterD (talk) 02:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

the more the merrier...I can add it to the rfa mainpage tomorrow evening if it takes that long to get it all coordinated....no hurry. However, after that I will be busy until very late Friday if it is delayed till then.--MONGO 02:53, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm on board as a co-nom, y'all please let me know when to pitch in before it goes live. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:58, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Oops, I see Mongo has already set up the page, hopefully I'll get to it later tonight. Gwen Gale (talk) 03:02, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Very proud to have your support. BusterD (talk) 03:03, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Also..in checking history, you removed yourself from the WikiProject Military history...did you wish to rejoin?...also...email.--MONGO 03:24, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

• Your RFA is currently running at 27% support. While it is within the realm of possibility that it could rebound and be successful, it is not likely. I would suggest that you withdraw your acceptance of the nomination. This can actually increase your chances of succeeding a second time as it shows an ability to acknowledge and respond to consensus. Don't take it too hard, it actually kind of reminds me of my first RFA where a single error of judgement was found to outweigh all of my positive contributions. I avoided making the same type of mistake and made it through the second time, I'm sure you could do the same. Just some free advice to take or leave as you please. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:22, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

• Hello BusterD. I have closed your RfA per WP:SNOW because for one it was running at 25% and two most of the oppose comments were about poor judgement and asking for the RfA to be withdrawed and three it seemed like this trend would continue onward. Hopefully you will be successful the next time around. Thanks Baseball Watcher 00:12, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
  • And I reverted the closure --Guerillero | My Talk 00:35, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh, geez, here we go again... Let's wait to hear from the candidate before taking any more such actions please. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:15, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, please, BusterD easily knows what to do and when, thanks. Gwen Gale (talk) 01:28, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Seeing your RFA makes me realize a couple things. Why I haven't tried again, you must be over 18, and folks here in WP really have a zero defect mentality...lol. Good luck all the same and I hope things turn around. --Kumioko (talk) 02:12, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your support, dude. The thing is: I'll be fine no matter HOW this comes out. I'll still be around, I'll still be editing. But you and others know I'd be a good admin. We need more good admins. Plus: I need to demonstrate your faith isn't misplaced. One thing is certain, if I do go all seven days and I succeed, this will be a good story to tell. BusterD (talk) 02:18, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Well I'm glad to hear your not taking it to heart. Everyone knows the RFA process is broken so its less about the editor as the process. If it makes you feel better I have over 300, 000 edits (I think I'm 12th by volume of edits not counting bots), I have a bot, been around for like 5 years, I think I have over 1000 edits in every namespace except book and book talk and have created over 1500 articles and I wouldn't pass either. But someones gotta get the work done while the generals talk about strategy and keep the chairs warm in discussions. :-) See ya around. --Kumioko (talk) 02:43, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Hiking the Appalachian Trail?

In your RfA, was that a deliberate reference to the former Governor of South Carolina, Mark Sanford and his disappearance and extramarital affair? If so, well played. —Tom Morris (talk) 13:33, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry. I wasn't thinking politically, though I confess that might be a nice jibe. No, I was talking about actually hiking (more often jogging) the trail which is close to my home. I find jogging the trail is much more enjoyable than merely hiking it or jogging on a road or track. I have to focus where my next step is going to go, so it activates my sense of survival a little bit. If I'm not careful, nobody would find me until spring melt... Enjoy your holiday, whichever you celebrate. BusterD (talk) 16:16, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Mentoring

Hi Buster. I understand your point about 'Editor review'. Many people don't bother to go there and comment, mainly because, probably like me, they have realised that the majority of editors who want their work assessing there are very young, very new users who think adminship is some kind of trophy. That said, a fair number of editors come to my talk page or email me and ask me what I think. They are generally ready for adminship or not far off it, or they have already a failed RfA or two behind them, so I take the time to do an in depth analysis of their editing and their approach to this kind of collaborative project. I always reply by email, and that's how any mentoring takes place. Mentoring takes time, and sometimes up to six months or even a year because there are other situations to be taken into consideration that the candidates have not considered. If your current RfA fails, and to be honest, I think it might, don't worry about it in the slightest, a great many of our best admins passed on their 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th attempt, and don't let it spoil your holiday. I would be most happy to help you prepare for your next trial of fire, because next time, it will pass - just let me know when you're ready to start. In the meantime, you may wish to read this and follow the links in it. Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:29, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Very kind of you. I see you understand this was never about an admin badge for my lapel. In my mind, this was always about feeling ready to serve and feeling the pedia's need acutely. Now, IMHO, this procedure has become about how we choose and approve admin candidates. I'll be glad to do as you suggest. Do you think keeping this procedure open much longer would be a violation of WP:POINT? I'd really like to see how this comes out. If the full-length procedure ends anywhere close to 50%, I'd think my run a success, even if I'm not promoted. It might certainly allow folks to see the way the RfA system is weighted against some candidates. BusterD (talk) 18:31, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

There are no policies regarding the time an RfA should stay live (in some circumstances they may even be extended), so there can never be an assumption or an accusation that your insisting that it runs its full length is WP:POINT. That said, I do believe that continuing would be rather pointless - enough has been said to provide you with the community's consensus, and anything more might only serve to demoralise you. I certainly wouldn't want that to happen. I don't think this RfA is about how we choose our admins, but how !voters have chosen to explain how they arrive at their conclusions might have made it appear so to you; the main discussion on the evils of the system and how to put it right are at WP:RFA2011, a strictly focused project that I started early this year. Do read the items I linked to, and let's see how we can be sure that your next run will succeed. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:19, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

...for relisting Sean Frye. Had familial obligations. Will get to my promised fixin' quite soon. Schmidt, 04:05, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy to do it. My rule of thumb is a minimum of four participants (three if all three !votes are delete). Glad to know the new seven day period will help you complete your intention. BusterD (talk) 04:59, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Your RFA

I have closed your RFA as it was highly unlikely to succeed and I think you have received all the constructive feedback it was likely to generate. I hope you will not be too disheartened by the unsuccessul outcome and will consider reapplying once you have addressed the issues raised by those who opposed. I know the RFA process can be rather demoralising and trust you will keep in mind the positive comments that were made. Thank you for volunteering your time to help out on Misplaced Pages. WJBscribe (talk) 00:48, 27 December 2011 (UTC) (reopened)

RFAs aren't really a good place for feedback - editor reviews and such tend to generate much more contructive commentary. I'm afraid your RfA isn't going to succeed and I think this is a good point to walk away, hence my close. If you would really like it reopened, I am willing to do so, but I really doubt you'd find the another few days a positive experience. WJBscribe (talk) 02:06, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I concur that going the distance now is a bad choice. Next time, I'll stay out of it and save you some grief...as I am apparently persona no grata according to some there and did you no favors by nominating you. The process is garbage now anyway...one editor opposes partly because you followed policy (WP:V) as I commented on the Rfa talkpage and got no response from him/her. A half dozen editors have very short tenures on Misplaced Pages (6 mos) and/or less than 3,000 edits and I can't see what difference it makes to them who is and who isn't an admin...so odd that the "standards" for being an admin are supposedly higher, yet the !voters all count no matter how lackluster they are to judge anyone here.--MONGO 03:45, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I'll choose to ignore your sage advice. And if I run again, I'll ask the same three editors to nominate me. It's easy to see that virtually every !vote against me uses Misplaced Pages:Arguments to avoid in adminship discussions. And this is what passes for consensus? Horsehockey. BusterD (talk) 04:06, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, some of the opposes are valid, much more than half of them are, so my comment was more about the problems with the !voting process altogether...I don't think it is fair for me to say that the opposition expects you to suck up or lick their boots, but it does seem that way at times...I will say this though...from prior experience....I never wanted to be an admin...I was asked several times and was surprised I got selected on the first go. But that was 2005 and many of the processes now have become so complex that this looks like a whole new website to me...we changed for the worse in ways. I also want to mention that after the drama of being promoted to admin...I looked over the toolkit and said to myself..."this is supposed to be a big deal?" I felt like I got ripped off...I just went through that gauntlet so I can delete a page, block a vandal, do a page protection????...it isn't a big deal...I ran again and lost something like 125/105...I will never run for admin again....and this nomination was, unless the process changes and the community reassess my value as a nominator, my last.--MONGO 04:19, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I have often remarked that being granted adminship is a bit like winning a golden turd. It looks all shiny, but when you hold it in your hands it can be less than satisfying. Beeblebrox (talk) 04:36, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I'd say that about sums it up. But I do think many admins do fine work and the website needs them...BUT...if you're put together the way I am...the tools can get you in a hoe whatta trobble! I'd never nominate ME...but I have picked some excellent ones and I think BusterD would be one of them....it's easy for me to pick them as I look for my OPPOSITE in temperament. Ha.--MONGO 04:45, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to see the RFA didn't turn around. As I mentioned above I ran for admin a few years ago and have no desire to run through it again. If the tools show up in my box one day then great, otherwise I'll just have to keep making work for others I'm afraid. Lots of work...boowaahaahaa. Keep your head up and see you around. --Kumioko (talk) 04:45, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

BusterD...IF they would do so, good mentor choices might include User:Acroterion or User:Antandrus...or User:Tom harrison who relinquished his bits on his own accord (but can get them back if he wants)...or User:Mike Cline as he is involved in the Wiki Ambassador effort...another option to study is to head over to Commons and learn about the issues there...it's a whole different world, but applicable here too and they need admins....a wise choice there for admin mentor would be User:Wsiegmund and he is one of, if not the most, impressive asset at Commons.--MONGO 05:08, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Nolelover 03:34, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Resilient Barnstar
		Your courage and patience at your Rfa are commendable and I am confident that should you decide to seek the tools in the future, you will be awarded them. MONGO 01:28, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, MONGO. I'm just a wikignome with delusions of grandeur. BusterD (talk) 03:02, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

hey

you are a good person Buster .. and that is far more important than any of this online bs that we work with. Stay true to yourself my friend, .. finding people like you is a true joy. — Ched :  ?  15:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Seconded Ed  03:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Very nice of you gentlemen to say. I'll do my best to deserve your trust. BusterD (talk) 03:04, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

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Thanks bot! Feel free to correct me as I make such mistakes. BusterD (talk) 10:41, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Your RfA

Hi Buster. I fear i did not !vote or comment in your RfA, as i tend not to, but i did visit it several times, and i have to tell you i was most impressed with the equanimity, thoughtfulness, and composure with which you conducted yourself in the face of a number of some not so good opposes. Some had good points, some seemed more concerned about, for example, who your friends are than whether you could be trusted. If you decide to submit again, feel free to let me know, and i'll step over & contribute. Cheers, Lindsay 06:22, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

So nice of you to drop by. Thanks for the moral support. I'll admit the process felt discouraging for a time. In AfD procedures, closers are required to weigh the arguments instead of counting numbers. If somebody says, for example: "delete per above," we are instructed to discount that assertion. In RfA, things seem quite different. On the other hand, group consensus signals group trust. Without such proven trust, one cannot function as a servant. For my part, I intend to work to broaden my wikiexperience and focus on the valid critique offered in process. One weakness of mine nobody pointed out is that I haven't been doing much service (adoption, NPP, help), so I need to offer up my time more. And of course I should endeavor to get my older work brought up to a standard. I'm most disappointed that aspersions were cast on my wikifriends, and by extension, my supporters. Guilt by association is a fallacious argument of the worst kind and such argument says much about whoever said it. From a Pulitzer-winning novel: "Any man who judges by the group is a pea-whit... You have to take one at a time." Thanks again for your very kind words and kinder offer. If I can ever be of service, you know where to find me. BusterD (talk) 10:42, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey, thanks for the nice message at my talk page. My answer didn't sound as humorous and friendly as I intended it, I think, but I guess this has been one of those weeks. Wanted to say hi and make sure you knew that I'm your buddy!  ;-) Montanabw 17:38, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I thought this was your week for snark. Dude! I never know where I stand with you. I did want to share that our negative interaction subsequent to the Horses in Warfare discussion was important for my personal growth on Misplaced Pages. Only my friends stand me up to face myself like that. Since I can't repay your honesty and candor, I feel I owe you my lasting friendship. I'm glad you feel similarly. My best wishes for the coming year to you and those you love. Let's agree to pass some irony, snark, and friendship on to the next generation of Wikipedians. BusterD (talk) 17:48, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, some of the time, at least! :-) Tis the season to be jolly, right? (Bah, humbug!) Don't worry about where you stand with me, I'm pretty much willing to be buds with anyone willing to be my bud, even if we've spatted. (Ealdgyth and I spatted, Pesky and I spatted, Gwinva and I spatted, Countercanter and I spatted, an admin I respect met me when he had to break up a spat I was in, we're all good buds now!) What usually happens with me is that I address some issue in what I think is a perfectly rational, logical and entirely correct argument, but then when I do, something in my tone or approach seems to trigger some folks into thinking I'm this horrible control freak who is attacking them, and so they attack back, accuse me of ownership and other nasty things. Then my feelings get hurt and I either say something snarky or something with satire or irony that is misinterpreted, and away we go. I actually intend good faith and can be swayed by a good rational argument with solid evidence (and in fact enjoy a spirited good faith discussion -- I've been known to have done a 180 when the evidence supports it), but I seem to have difficulty coming across as I intended -- or at least, I seem to REALLY trigger some people. I'm not happy about the hostility I sometimes trigger, but I really am just being me, (I use a lot of irony and paradox in my RL conversations too, but you can't see the twinkle in the eye or tongue in cheek over WP) and doubt my personality is going to change much, so I'm just trying to stay aware of the dynamic, and in almost six years of editing WP, I've come close to losing it, but never actually called anyone an asshole yet! (been tempted a few times...) You take care and Happy New Year! Montanabw 04:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

We have a lot in common, dude. I keep thinking back to what the "guardian" says in the second Matrix movie: "You don't really know anyone until you have fought them." This has application in wider areas of my life. The happiest new year, friend. BusterD (talk) 13:56, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Good point. Often useful to see how people handle frustration and anger. Montanabw 06:43, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Mtking 21:14, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with letting your RFA run out

I think as long as you are not some kid with 100 edits, but are a good faith candidate, it is FINE to let the RFA run out. And NOT pointless. You've put the work into the questions, you deserve all the learning that the whole experience involves and the chance of the vote turning. The jockeying to try to close good faith RFAs early is not needed. Some of these people should just make their comment and then take the page off of watch, rather than worrying about it so much.

Peace.

TCO (Reviews needed) 00:24, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind comments. I was very confused about how front loaded the conversation was, since virtually nobody asked me to respond about the critique before passing judgement. I was encouraged by how many editors switched and/or indented their delete assertion. I'll be better armed with response and virtue next time. BusterD (talk) 12:23, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Seeking advice on a page marked for deletion

Hello BusterD, I am seeking advice on a page that was recently deleted by another editor and restored by you pending further review. The page is Brand Velocity. I have been asked to review the page and address the editors' comments. I have never worked on the content on this page and have not dealt with a situation in which a page might be removed. I'm not sure if you are the person I should direct this request to, but I was hoping for some advice on what to do to get the page in shape. I have read the comments but would appreciate any other advice you might have. Thank you very much. Bgarofallou (talk) 17:50, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi there! Sorry for my delay in replying; I've not been available much during the recent week. So far, my part in this discussion has been merely to relist. IMHO, I believed we'd generated insufficient discussion to warrant a closure one way or the other; I kept the discussion open longer so that more users could participate. Based solely on the points made in the discussion so far, it appears this page will soon face deletion. The discussion seems to indicate that the page is largely promotional and the subject doesn't meet notability guidelines for an encyclopedia. If you wanted to improve the chances of the page being kept, I'd recommend finding and applying references which help the editors following the discussion to see reasons why this company has been covered in some depth in independent reliable sources. Here's a link to the relevant guidelines: WP:IRS, WP:GNG, and WP:COMPANY. Because it appears you're a party with some connection to the subject, you've put yourself at a disadvantage. Please read WP:COI. Because I thought it might help, I found an example of what we would consider such a source (BusinessWeek) and added it to the page. If you could find one or two sources this good or better, this might sway discussion participants. If I can be of further assistance, feel free to call on me. BusterD (talk) 17:46, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi BusterD...Thanks very much for getting back to me--and my apologies for the delay--been under the weather. I appreciate your input and help on this; I'm working on revisions and hope to resubmit soon. I'll let you know if I need anything else, but I think you gave me what I need to get started. Again, thanks for your time and help! Bgarofallou (talk) 16:17, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

January 2012 Newsletter for WikiProject United States and supported projects

The January 2012 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

 
--Kumi-Taskbot (talk) 18:47, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Ironies ...

While I still firmly think the Sacred Heart Parish article failed of notability - the mentions, as it turns out, in History of Greenfield are scanty for a 1500+ page encyclopedia based on a modest-sized hill town - there's an irony which I thought might amuse you concerning the second published reference you dug up. It was written, as it happens, by the lady who habitually sits right behind me in church. (grins) Ravenswing 16:37, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind message left on my talk. Our discussion process is by nature adversarial, but I'm glad you didn't take my gentle prodding personally. I'd actually like to read the book your friend wrote. My interest in Greenfield is rooted in scion Charles P. Stone, whose biography I've been studying as an avocation for many years. Stone's father was deacon of St. James in Greenfield, but didn't live to see the current building constructed. Some of the comments I noticed when researching Sacred Heart referred to the closing of several Western Massaachusetts parishes offering mass in languages other than English. I've been seeing this happen in the NYC area too. I guess running a church isn't as solid an enterprise as it used to be. My mother has been a church secretary for many years, and I know their church community has shrunk in recent years. So I have no axe to grind re: Sacred Heart, and I'll concede my AfD assertions crossed the line into OS. I'll try to build the the page using sources like that written by your friend. I see you and I have tabletop RPGs in common as well. I worked for a game company for a time in the 90's. I think time is right to start kids playing again. WoW is soooo boring. BusterD (talk) 22:47, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Cleanup

Hello, BusterD. You are invited to join WikiProject Cleanup, a WikiProject and resource for Misplaced Pages cleanup listings, information and discussion. To join the project, just add your name to the member list. Northamerica1000 00:18, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

King4057

I don't think I did a close enough reading of interaction between you and King4057. One ongoing conversation at a time seems enough, so I think it's best that I defer to you here. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 14:51, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey Buster. I keep moving things around and cleaning things up on my Talk page, but my proposed interview questions are posted. It takes a great force of will for me to stick to the topic at hand. I've been told my greatest weakness as a PR pro was my unwillingness to lie, so... I did some more work on the Honeywell Aerospace article. Wanted to let you know I wasn't ignoring you. Also read up on the citation templates I'll use next time around. What I'm really getting at in the first question is you seem pretty uncomfortable with paid editing, so it seems unusual you'd want to coach one. King4057 (talk) 06:24, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

First, I'd say you've been reading a lot into my silence. I found your recent changes to your initial queries interesting. Second, I'd say whatever work you put into the sandbox space isn't wasted, just as the changes you made to your talkspace weren't wasted. Third, I hope a PR person would adhere to their code of ethics, so honesty is the very least I should expect. This is all about willingness. I'd be less likely to be willing to take my children shopping if I see they pocket items from time to time. In my response to your final sentence, I feel compelled to say I'm concerned someone else would get the benefits of my experience without my see any. I'd like to be a paid editor myself, as I'm sure others would. If Jimmy were to say, "BusterD, I'm going to pay you to sit at home and write about certain subjects," I'd jump at the chance. But I am certain it would change the way I feel about my avocation. I believe other editors would change their attitudes toward me if they knew I was a paid editor. None of this means I'm not wiling to help you; I've already initiated the issue with you myself. Our extended conversation about the general subject matter serves as a filter whereby I could see how you would respond to my concerns, and others could see what we're attempting isn't an end-around of policy. Since everyone can read every version, I thought it wise to probe your motives by having a chat with you. This is good for Misplaced Pages, which is my highest concern. I'll answer your four questions by this evening; real life is calling me out the door right now. BusterD (talk) 13:20, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Awesome. Appreciate your time Buster. Yah, I'm trying to keep things civil RE CREWE and mind my own business. King4057 (talk) 20:18, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey Buster. Is there a way to communicate with you privately like email or chat off Misplaced Pages? User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 06:14, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

On my user page, there is a link on the left hand side in the toolbox which says "email this user". This will deliver email to my pedia-specific account. BusterD (talk) 12:07, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey Buster. Just as a point of clarification, I brought up McKinsey as an example because they are a company I'm working with. We've been going through the article offline to discuss the appropriate suggestions for neutrality. I'm definitely observing your diplomacy skills though. User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 16:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

I'd urge you to disclose your interest bluntly when you next contribute to McKinsey talk. My changes were made in response to our conversation, and I'm aware you have an interest, but you should remind yourself to be fully disclosed at all times when working in or around a page where you have an interest.

I thought the point you made on Jimmy's talk was well-phrased. I loathe the concept of corporate personhood, and I disagree that financial concerns were paramount in the BLP issue. That said, demanding citation when material could be considered controversial or damaging seems a very fair way of addressing many contemporary issues on Misplaced Pages.

In addition, I'd like you to consider using a different term than "diplomacy" when characterizing my manner in the last couple of days. The word connotes a certain... hesitance to be forthcoming, and that's the exact opposite of my intention. I use the word "boldness" a lot, and I think that better describes my intention. If I've also been courteous and respectful, that's my nature and especially so in an online forum where folks can't read your body language or facial expression. Let's agree to a better term, OK? BusterD (talk) 17:36, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, bold yet polite. Lets call it "tone." Good call, I added to my Talk page comment to make my disclosure more overt. I'm doing a few more military history reviews. I wonder how you would rate the Honeywell Aerospace article if you evaluated it? That one is a fairly significant project. User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 18:10, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Let's call it neutral tone. Agreed, your work is quite good here. And I approve of your article assessments so far. It's clear that Stub and Start class articles can be judged merely on scope and appearance, but when we get to C- and B-class pages, we need to understand the criteria and how the page applies. I think your Honeywell effort is a worthy C, perhaps even a B. Rate it yourself. How does it meet the MilHist B-class checklist? Measure your work against a company page like Raytheon, which is a fair B. Now what does one do from where you are? I'd suggest you get multiple reviewers to look the page over, them each knowing you have doing this for hire, then request merge with the existing page. As a B-class page, then you can pursue Good Article review. IMHO, I'd have the page ready to pass GA review before I merged. This will please the reviewers and demonstrate you're doing the right thing for everybody. Perhaps we could ask for reviewers on the WP:Coop talk page. BusterD (talk) 18:45, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

I'd give it a B3, B4 and B5 with a hesitant B1, but might not give it a B2. I could go back and forth on B2. The completeness of the article is subject to available citations, but that book on turbine engines I cited has an extraordinarily detailed breakdown of all the engines Honeywell made. However, this information might be intricate detail for the Honeywell Aerospace article and better placed on the multitude of articles on individual turbines made by Honeywell that have pre-existing articles. I hesitate on B1 because I used the book "The Legend of Honeywell" a lot, which is written independently and published by a publisher, but appears as though it was funded by or that Honeywell was somehow involved in it. I tried to find additional sources wherever I used the book, but in some places this week source is a standalone. I never realized before that GA was such a high status. I'd give it a C for now. Maybe I should work on getting more Cs and Bs before heading straight for GA though. User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 19:08, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Re: Childhood Experience in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Carla Cretan

The difference is you could not have walked outside your house and onto the moon to watch the moon landing. Also the relative importance. She watched only the Romanian Revolution, like she did not even realize there were revolutions elsewhere or the Soviet Union was falling. Applied to you, this would be like if you lived on the moon, and you were so emotionally affected by the humans landing on the moon, that you still did not realize there were other planets, even after the humans came and even though you have a television. And then you wrote a Misplaced Pages article about it. 74.104.96.250 (talk) 01:37, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

I can see your point, but frankly can't see your unhappiness with the subject. The page was deleted. Why is is so important to you that this person doesn't seem to exist, or shouldn't be taken seriously? Lots of people never get past just day-to-day living. That's somewhat sad, but not too unusual. This person has aspired and desired to know more and tell her story. What is really bugging you so much you felt a need to explain your position on my talk? BusterD (talk) 01:49, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Mentorship Questions

Hi Buster. This file was marked for lacking a non-free use explanation. The template says to remove it if there is a non-free use explanation. Well there is one, but I'm still not sure if the explanation is kosher. Should I remove the template? I also asked the user running the bot and have five days until the image gets removed, but thought I would just ask. User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 19:09, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

First, we don't "stick" external links. We just put a space after the URL and put our word or phase inside the bracket, as so: "This file was marked for lacking a non-free use explanation." However, this is an internal link, since it links to something into the pedia, so it should read: "This file was marked for lacking a non-free use explanation." Note that I used a colon to deactivate the image. I'd use a colon with a linked category like this (otherwise the category would apply to the page, and we couldn't see the link intended.).

As to the merits, I'm not sure this is a fair use of the image. Traditionally a non-free use image can only be used to portray the subject himself. For example, I can use a logo on the company page, but nowhere else. I could use this image on the Irfan Salim page, but nowhere else. See Misplaced Pages:Non-free content, Misplaced Pages:Non-free use rationale guideline and User:ESkog/Rationales. BusterD (talk) 21:38, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

EUCLID U

Hi Buster. I wanted to get your take on something. After no meaningful discussion has taken place on the Talk page of an article for 1-2 weeks, there's a need for escalation. Do you think such an escalation should take place using the OTRS system or COIN? Or is that why you were suggesting BRD? User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 17:08, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Can you get specific? Are you referring to McKinsey? BusterD (talk) 18:27, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh no. EUCLID at the moment, but I'm sure it will happen often. The EUCLID (university) article has content about a dispute between two for-profit corporations that are each financially motivated to have opposing viewpoints about international accreditation. It's pretty interesting actually. That's what I love about doing this work - learning new stuff all the time.

That's the context for my thinking about BLP rules. The Accredibase report attacking EUCLID is not a reliable source based on the three criteria. It has no authorship, it is self published by a bias party and the content itself is filled with language like "it seems" and wildly opinionated verbiage. I would welcome Misplaced Pages to take these types of clients away from me by making it harder for users to attack companies without more reliable sources.

Anyways, I didn't contest it as a reliable source. It's just a very complex issue of international politics and law. A lot of citations were misused, only one side was told and so on. It would require a volunteer to do some real digging and thinking to sort it our fairly. User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 20:36, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Here's an example of why paid editors and COI editors will have some difficulty. I'll deign not to comment on the content dispute itself. But let's observe what you wrote above. Perhaps I'm misreading.

• Escalation. Why do we "need" to escalate this? I dismiss the premise of such a statement. We're in WP:NORUSH here. (I know, it's only an essay.) You, on the other hand, as a paid editor, have deadlines. The (likely paid) editor who suddenly showed up on the McKinsey talk page also raised the deadline issue. Doesn't exist here. Consensus does agree in the case of BLPs, urgency can be a concern. I think you'd be hard-pressed to raise a discussion which grants similar urgency issues to groups. I think presenting reliable secondary sources to back your assertions is the only real course.
• I also think you poorly state the situation itself. I see two institutions which rely on the confidence of others for their sustainability. EUCLID may be a worthy institution, but they have a vested interest in their accreditation; they make more money if they're viewed as accredited. Verifile may also be a worthy institution, but they have a vested interest in correctly listing institutions as accredited or not; they make no more money if they decide one way or the other. Their services are market tested and they are are insured by Lloyds. You, as a paid editor, are inclined to advocate for your client. This is the very nugget of COI. You've been put to choose whether your client's interest is greater than the interest of the pedia. At least one editor in the talk discussion implies you've poorly phrased your assertions in your scrapbook effort, and in the direction of your client's POV.
• As to the merits of the sources, I'll concede that the statement from Accredibase is not independent of Verifile, but it is certainly independent of EUCLID. We use for-profit sources constantly. The NYTimes, Google, any news source. Guinness Book of World Records. Independent of the subject, but not monolithic. I tend to think Accredibase would be considered one of the authorities in this field. The Accredibase page on EUCLID makes it clear the university was given a full hearing. Certainly your accusation of "bias" seems unprovable; on the contrary, they appear an authority in the field.

Again, perhaps I misread here. I agree this is a complex issue of international politics and law. I contend secondary sources applied correctly would help this pagespace move forward. But short of reliable secondary sources, I'm not sure how you'd escalate this, short of dispute resolution, and I suspect you'd find stronger arguments against than mine. BusterD (talk) 19:43, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

As an aside, I suggested you consider a blog column on the nature of BRD. I didn't suggest you use BRD to influence the outcomes of your pagespaces unduly. I'm not so happy about the bright line (it only keeps honest people from mucking the pedia up), but it has been laid down by someone who holds trust by consensus. BusterD (talk) 19:43, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

IT security companies are experts in their field, but financially motivated to sell fear of a security breach in order to sell a product that promises safety. Just like a home alarm company might bloat numbers on home invasions. Accredibase is financially motivated to sow fear of unaccredited institutions in order to sell a product that promises safety. That's why the report was created - to sell products. I don't feel that's comparable to a news organization selling papers, but is more comparable to anything EUCLID would produce on the topic. This is off-topic since I wasn't contesting Accredibase as a reliable source, but it's a good discussion.

I did think it would be better to address controversial content through discussion without a sandbox, but I felt the five bullets I provided on the Talk page were pretty clear choices. All of these requests are based on the same citations used in the current article. Am I wrong? User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 04:55, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Honeywell Turbo Technologies

Hi Buster. If you have an interest, would love your feedback on my latest sandboxes:

• Eze Castle Integration
• Honeywell Turbo Technologies

Also thought I'd let you know the MarkMonitor article has been moved to mainspace by MzMcBride. Cheers. User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 15:23, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Problem with the Generals' lists

So User:Brightgalrs, without once discussing it with anyone else, looking at the article histories, or bothering to read the talk pages (not to mention Misplaced Pages:Consensus) has suddenly shown up and made a massive 22,000 character addition to List of American Civil War Generals (Union) and a 307,000 character deletion from List of American Civil War Generals (Confederate), both of which (particularly the latter) drastically change the very nature of both articles. When asked why, the user insisted that her (?) way was "superior" and that she would allow for no discussion on this point from anyone. As another editor of the page, I'm turning to you and a few others to ask assistance in trying to reign in actions that frankly border on vandalism. While some of her changes are more than welcome (additions of photos of Union officers, for example), the wholesale elimination of notations that were being worked on and the changes is format, to say nothing of refusing to discuss it with anyone else - either before or after - are, in my opinion, invasive. May I ask for you to take a look and give your opinion on the matter? IcarusPhoenix (talk) 20:32, 29 March 2012 (UTC)