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Too Close for Comfort

I had no idea she was such a genius. 64.241.230.3 17:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Why isn't this article supported by by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.172.94.207 (talk • contribs) 02:57, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I suppose the "paradox" between her intellectual prowress and her looks could somehow be worked into the article. But it would be tricky. Cranston Lamont (talk) 19:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Birthdate

Other sources give her date of birth as 23 July 1953, not 1963. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.134.88 (talk) 18:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Communication with Lydia Cornell's office informs me that the birth date on IMBD given as 23 July 1953 is incorrect and that the date given here is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.134.88 (talk • contribs) 13:37, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

i attended the university of colorado with her in at least 1975 and believe me she wasn't 13 yrs old! the 1953 date is a lot closer to reality! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.22.69 (talk • contribs) 17:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Eh. . . Texas Birth Index says 1953. Which are ya gonna believe? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.10.116.163 (talk) 03:46, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Cornell's sister and family, including some details of a child that died, verify that IMDB is wrong. Her correct birthdate is 1962. The person who keeps changing it to 1953 is involved in something sinister according to attorneys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AP Birth Records (talk • contribs) 18:53, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Someone want to try to find some reliable sources for her birth date or her attendance at University of Colorado? --Ronz (talk) 16:13, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The Texas Birth Index gives a birthdate of 7-23-53 http://www.familytreelegends.com/records/txbirths?c=search&first=&last=korniloff&spelling=Exact&11_year=&11_month=0&11_day=0&4=&14=&SubmitSearch.x=46&SubmitSearch.y=13

The 1982 newspaper article said that she won the Little Miss Cotton title in 1963, and mentions her being in a yearbook in 1965-1966.Stembark (talk) 15:50, 17 November 2011 (UTC)Stembark

I'm not sure that's enough to change it, but it might be enough to remove it. --Ronz (talk) 17:31, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20131630,00.html gives age 43 in 2000, making the year 1957 or '56 depending upon the date of the interview. Given that, I've removed the year from the article. --Ronz (talk) 00:22, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Let's get this correct and properly sourced. Do we have reliable sources that she was born Lydia Korniloff in El Paso, Texas, U.S.? If that's her correct birth name and location, then the http://epcounty.com search results might be good enough for our use, but I'll want to check at WP:BLPN first given that this dispute has been going on for years now. --Ronz (talk) 17:30, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

From this previously noted 1982 article: "People here in El Paso remember her as Lydia Korniloff, the dark-haired eldest daughter of Irma Jean and Gregory Korniloff." Considering this was a home-town paper, I'd say they probably have it right about the name and location. According to available records, her sister Kathryn was born in 1959, and her brother Paul was born in 1957, so her birthdate would seem to predate them as she was described as the eldest.Stembark (talk) 20:20, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Sources please. We're not going to make much progress if we can't get all the necessary information in one place where everyone can examine it easily. --Ronz (talk) 21:34, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

• El Paso Actress' Success Not Too Close for Comfort Frederick, Oklahoma Daily Leader, 15 Aug 1982

  Verifies name of Lydia Korniloff. --Ronz (talk) 23:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

• Ancestry.com. Texas Birth Index, 1903-1997 . Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2005. Roll Number: 1953_0009.

  I'm assuming this is just another reference to the birth records mentioned above accessible from http://epcounty.com. --Ronz (talk) 16:42, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Ancestry.com. U.S. Public Records Index, Volume 2 . Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.

  Anyone have the slightest idea what this might be? --Ronz (talk) 16:42, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• However, another source indicates she was born on July 23, 1956. See Ancestry.com. U.S. Public Records Index, Volume 1 . Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010. Original data: Voter Registration Lists, Public Record Filings, Historical Residential Records, and Other Household Database Listings.

  Anyone have the slightest idea what this might be? --Ronz (talk) 16:42, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

"Source Information: Ancestry.com. U.S. Public Records Index, Volume 1 . Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010. Original data: Voter Registration Lists, Public Record Filings, Historical Residential Records, and Other Household Database Listings" = About U.S. Public Records Index, Volume 1: The U.S. Public Records Index is a compilation of various public records spanning all 50 states in the United States from 1950 to 1993. These records are all accessible to the general public by contacting the appropriate agency. Ancestry.com has simply made the process of finding certain public records easier by making them available in an online searchable database. Entries in this index may contain information such as: A person’s first name, middle name or initial and last name; A street or mailing address; A telephone number; A birth date or birth year; An age". Hope this helps.smjwalsh (talk) 14:51, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not doubting that Ancestry.com has some information, I'm asking what the specific source of the information is in this instance. What specific record is being used and referenced by Ancestry.com? --Ronz (talk) 17:06, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

The registrar from the University of Colorado, Boulder, has officially verified in writing 01/26/12 that Lydia Korniloff was granted a Bachelor's degree in May of 1976. Is this usable here as source? Please advise. Thanks.Triton6563 (talk) 14:18, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I've no idea. I suspect not. I don't see how it matters. We're trying to find confirmation of her birthdate, which seems most likely to be in '53, but may be '56.

When we've gathered as much as we can find, I intend to present it here on this talk page then have it reviewed by others. --Ronz (talk) 17:23, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

A college graduation date goes a long way towards debunking the later birth dates alleged here, and would support a 1953 birth date. A bachelor's degree earned in 1976 would make a 1956 birth year unlikely.

IMO, you have confirmation of the birth date via the ElPaso County birth index discussed. If someone wants to dispute that date, it should be up to him to document it.Triton6563 (talk) 16:18, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree. More importantly, no one is still arguing for the more recent dates. --Ronz (talk) 17:45, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Summary

Oklahoma Daily Leader - born Lydia Korniloff in El Paso, Texas

• El Paso Actress' Success Not Too Close for Comfort Frederick, Oklahoma Daily Leader, 15 Aug 1982

The Texas Birth Index for Lydia Korniloff - born Thursday, July 23, 1953:

• Searchable from http://epcounty.com
• http://www.familytreelegends.com/records/txbirths?c=search&first=&last=korniloff&spelling=Exact&11_year=&11_month=0&11_day=0&4=&14=&SubmitSearch.x=46&SubmitSearch.y=13
• https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VDX8-5LG
• From Ancestry.com (mentioned above and currently used as references in the article - unclear if these are both referencing the same Texas Birth Index, or something else)

Voter registration record - 1956

• From Ancestry.com (mentioned above and currently used as a reference - details lacking)

Popular media - born in 1957 or '58:

• http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=vyJDAAAAIBAJ&sjid=u6wMAAAAIBAJ&pg=2846,4007633&dq=lydia+cornell&hl=en
• http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20131630,00.html gives age 43 in 2000
• http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=53wzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=eOoFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5573,1361589&dq=lydia+cornell&hl=en

I threw in a couple additional popular media sources that assume a 1957/58 birth year. I didn't bother with the unreliable sources giving 1962. --Ronz (talk) 16:04, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

All of those ancestry and family tree cites are original research and not what we are here to do - to use them and to publish details from them here imo is a violation of privacy. Use the reports in reliable sources for her dob - or year of birth - I would go with those two popular media cites and add born 1957/58Youreallycan 16:52, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

The multiple references to the Texas Birth Index are primary sources, as is the other Ancestry.com reference. If there is any original research, it is in linking her name and place of birth to the birth record. Given WP:BLPPRIMARY says, "Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth," I'm going to remove it and ask for more help. --Ronz (talk) 19:32, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

As always, I'm willing to abide by WP guidelines. Primary sources can be used in certain circumstances. OR is more problematic. While we cannot use the Texas Birth Record sources in the aricle (unless it is quoted in a RS), it should still determine what can and cannot be put in the article. Given all of the above, popular media should be subject to a hermeneutic of suspicion esp articles written once her PR folk are involved. Articles from her childhood or before she was famous are more likely to be accurate.smjwalsh (talk) 22:59, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. We've at least one reliable primary source that gives her birthdate. While BLPPRIMARY tells us not to use this source, that doesn't mean we instead use sources with information that is highly suspect. --Ronz (talk) 23:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Bashamandcornell.com provides date of 1962:

• http://www.bashamandcornell.com/?page_id=2
• http://www.prlog.org/11834307-lydia-cornell-comedy-writer-afi-best-actress-nominee-peoples-choice-award-winner-interviewed.html

It looks like Bashamandcornell.com is the source for all mention of 1962. In cases like this, there's wide consensus to leave the year out. --Ronz (talk) 00:00, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Both sites are closely connected to the subject. She has been evasive about her actual age for almost 30 years now.smjwalsh (talk) 04:04, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

In the Weekly World News of July 28, 1981 (page 22), Cornell is descibed as a "24-year old actress", and her siblings are described as "a 26-year old brother" and "an older sister, Cathy, 28". This not only represents her birth date as 1957, but shifts the birth order of her parents' children.smjwalsh (talk) 15:03, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Lydia Korniloff appears in an article "Herndon Piano Studios to Present Students in Three Musical Programs", in the El Paso Herald Post (November 2, 1960):16, . smjwalsh (talk) 05:03, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

This should put the matter to rest: Page 4 of El Paso Herald Post (April 1, 1963): "El Paso Areas Miss Cotton Is Happy Nine Year Old Girl" A pretty brown haired miss named Lydia Korniloff is El Paso's happiest little girl today. Lydia was named Little Miss Cotton of El Paso at the contest and style show at Bassett Popular Dry Goods Co auditorium. I WAS sure and happy said Lydia this morning already in a big rush to get ready for school like every other fourth grade youngster on a Monday morning. The new Little Miss Cotton is the daughter of Mr and Mrs Gregory Korni loff of 1217 Baltimore Drive". QED.smjwalsh (talk) 05:13, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Summarizing the 1953 evidence

• We have a secondary source stating she was born Lydia Korniloff, and no one is disputing this in any way.
• We have primary sources indicating Lydia Korniloff was born in 1953, which should not be used alone per WP:BLPPRIMARY.
• We have multiple secondary sources stating she was nine in early 1963 which gives 1953 as her birth year per WP:CALC.
• We have a secondary source verifying she was born before 1960.

--Ronz (talk) 06:15, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Complete bio from Lydia being prepared

Lydia's Office is working on a complete bio, including her job at Caribou Ranch, her marriage, children, divorce, extra career items. Lydia is in the midst of a writing deadline on a series of books. We will be able to update and correct all the info here, including dates and details. Please give us a little more time. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.246.248 (talk) 04:14, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Please be aware of WP:COI and please provide reliable sources for any information that might not meet WP:BLPSPS --Ronz (talk) 16:54, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

I have restore info recently removed one suspects by an editor associated with the subject. This sourced info (however inconvenient) should remain until replaced or displaced by relevant info from reliable sources.smjwalsh (talk) 23:29, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

(Note the following comment of mine was moved here from User talk:Smjwalsh --Ronz (talk) 14:56, 30 April 2012 (UTC))

I don't know if you noticed, but I asked for help Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Actors_and_Filmmakers#Lydia_Cornell here with the article. I think we should get the details better documented on what those sources actually are, as I mentioned on the talk page. It will be interesting to see what Cornell's office provides. I still think it would be best not to include the information. Could you please fold back in the changes that were made that have nothing to do with her birthdate? Thanks! --Ronz (talk) 23:39, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

The material in the article is adequately sourced now. They are RS. The onus needs to be on her office to provide other information from RS. My experience is that pandering to the subject by removing material crosses a COI line, and once they get what they want, there is a delay in providing additional information. This may hurry them up. The other material eg Little Miss Cotton provides additional corroboration that her birthdate is more like 1953, than the 1963 originally claimed. However, what specific changes do you believe ought to be made? smjwalsh (talk) 02:54, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm uncomfortable with adding 1953 plus the note on 1956, especially with the sources currently provided. I've summarized the sources above as promised and started a BLPN discussion. --Ronz (talk) 16:26, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

College graduation 1976?

I looked through the references, but didn't see the date verified anywhere. Did I overlook something? --Ronz (talk) 03:08, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Let me look for a source. I started with info supplied on this talk page. One article refers to role in Too Close being 2.5 years since graduation, making a graduation in 1977. However, she was living in the Netherlands then with her family.smjwalsh (talk) 12:54, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

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