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Picture removal - Eaglet Circle

Thank you for taking time reviewing the pictures on the Orlyonok article. I do not see the reason for the sudden removal of the picture of the Eaglet Circle and would like to see detailed explanation. The short line you suplied ((F7: Violates non-free use policy: obviously false tag (not the topic of the article, not object of commentary); obviously replaceable)) does not fully furnish details, as it gives multiple reasons. If it violates the non-free use policy I can supply the proof for the non-free fair use; if its not the topic of the article, by reading the article you will find that it is a picture of eaglets standing in a circle (and singing a song, as a matter of fact, see (Eaglet Circle Traditions - Tradition of Songs); if it is obviously replaceable, I already stated in the talk on my page that once I obtain the license-free variants, these WILL be replaced. Again, this article HAS ALREADY been reviewed by the administration and staff of the camp and has been approved. If this does not sound convincing enough, I can forward direct email address for the person responsible for the public relationships who can further assist you with double-checking all the permissions and legal status of anything used in the article. Thank you, EagletSam (talk) 13:44, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

The image was replaceable because an alternative image of kids standing in a circle could obviously be created. It doesn't matter if you have already found one; it is enough that such an alternative is conceivable. That's the WP:NFCC#1 failure. Normally this leads to deletion after a waiting time of 48 hours, but in this case the image was additionally subject to immediate deletion per WP:CSD#F7 because it also had a blatantly false description. You claimed in your rationale that it was being used as "object of discussion". The file upload form that you used for uploading it told you exactly what that means: "the image itself is the topic of discussion in the article. The discussion is about the photograph or painting as such, as a creative work, not just about the thing or person it shows". This was obviously not the case here. If you are in contact with the camp administration, you are very welcome to try and get images from them with a fully free license, but without that we won't be able to use them. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:44, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for taking time explaining the rationale. I apologize for taking apart your post, but it merits some attention. "..it is enough that such an alternative is conceivable..." - I still fail to see the possible existence of a conceivable alternative being a viable basis for the sudden removal without warning. Permissions-wise, as stated (read EagletSam MyTalk), not only I have been in contact with the administration of the camp, I have already obtained the permission to use ANY pictures hosted on their site, logos, maps, etc, which I will gladly forward to the Wiki administration if need be (actually, I would much prefer Wiki and Orlyonok administration work it out directly, as I am not affiliated with Orlyonok, never worked for them, and live in the other hemisphere altogether). (FYI, I am already in the process of figuring out which photos fall within the "free" permissions; choosing the "non-free" was done out of respect for the copyrights of the official site "by default", and I am awaiting "official letter" from the administration explaining all the details of such; your actions are actually speeding up things that are planned to happen anyhow; I had to start with some kind of draft that I could present to the Orlyonok administration as a preview). But, logistics aside, I am still at loss how a genuine picture of a genuine Eaglet Circle standing while singing (and with a clearly visible Orlyonok sign, which IMHO, is one of the best pictures I could find) does not belong to the article discussing it within the Eaglet Culture section. If it does not belong within the Eaglet Circle paragraph itself and should have been moved to the Tradition of Songs section, than I would have done that, too, given some time, which I was not given. I apologize for re-using your post at the risk of being wrongly understood, but the "blatantly false description" in itself is the blatant false statement, since the photo's capture clearly read "Eaglet Circle"; if you refer to the uploaded file description, "The discussion is about the photograph or painting as such.." then it does not mean I do not try to understand what I am doing; it simply means a mistake has been made and should be corrected, which I would gladly do, given the chance you did not give me. I also see that other image in the article (the map of the camp) suddenly came under scrutiny and sense a pattern here, though, I WOULD LIKE to see some friendly and helpful discussion BEFORE anything is suddenly removed without my permission. All the links and references provided will be checked and thoroughly read. Respectfully, EagletSam (talk) 18:43, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Re: rmoving the logos of the individual camps within the Orlyonok - still awaiting a SOLID EXPLANATION, just like with the earlier sudden removal of the Eaglet Circle picture. This was not the "non-free image over-use", these are individual logos of the camps within the Orlyonok, officially created, officially approved. I am still at loss as to why WITHOUT WARNING stuff disappears from the article at such lightning speed and with such scant explanation. Trying hard to stay respectfully but dazed and confused EagletSam (talk) 19:37, 5 July 2012 (UTC) P.S. Still awaiting the basis for the "conceivable alternative" and to help you out, is it in the state of the CA only? In the United States of America? Worldwide or which country in particular? What are the provisions for seeing it as the legal basis for any actions? What is the court ruling establishing it? If there were none, what is the actual internal Wiki memo stating as such? By whom and to whom it was referring (which case in particular)? Who authorized its immediate put to action and by what power (which US court and in which location)? Until these and other provisions are met, I do not legally recognize "conceivable alternative" as being a solid evidence other than being just one particular occasion for this particular case (would like to see other comparable examples, links to other articles where this worked). If these are too much to answer, I can wait.

Sorry, these are too many questions to answer all. Please understand that this kind of image patrolling is very much a routine matter; we get hundreds of images uploaded daily, and I review, and often delete, dozens of them every day. I must point you to the WP:NFC policy page, which explains these things. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:39, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

I respect your time and expect the same in return. I, too, a have full-time work, family, various obligations and multitude of volunteer work in addition to editing article. In no way I imply I have more work to do or trying waste your or anyone's time, but expect that this can be settled in civilized and logical matter. I have read through all the links you supplied in addition to other pages serving the point. Respectfully, EagletSam (talk) 20:50, 5 July 2012 (UTC) P.S. I was not born in the US and grew up elsewhere, and have problems figuring out what "common sense" would be; in short, I need to be told what exactly things like "conceivable alternative" supposed to mean to an average american/canadian. While it may be obvious and simple, it is not, in my case. Thank you EagletSam (talk) 00:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

It's really much simpler than you make it sound. Somebody, for instance a staff member or visitor at the camp, could make a new photograph and publish it under a free license. As long as that is possible, we will not use a non-free alternative. I'm not sure how I could explain it any better than this; if you find this difficult to follow, I'll just have to ask you to accept that this is how the policy of this project works, and to move on. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:11, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Roger that EagletSam (talk) 14:09, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Picture revised

I have since reloaded an image under copyright discussion. I have now correctly noted that it is copyrighted and not open for 'free use' I hope you respect this change I have made. I apologize for the misuse of the image uploading.

The building picture I submitted will not be used after all

I already removed it from the KCPT page, realizing that taking a photo of the building myself would be better than using someone else's photos whether it is considered fair use or not. Plus, that photo was of the backside of the building and not the front (a view of the front would be better). Therefore, feel free to remove that photo from this site. It will not be used. --CastleBuff

Article for Barry Klarberg

I reviewed your message. Thank you for your comments. I want to inform and ensure to you that this Misplaced Pages entry was not created by Barry Klarberg. We share the same last name. With regards to the headshot image used, I have reached out to my friend who took the photograph and will receive an email from him confirming the permission to use the image. This email with the author's explicit permission will be forwarded to permissions-en@wikimedia.org. Rklarberg (talk)User talk:rklarberg

Ashish Kapoor Image

Historiographer

I like to make clear that I do not support, nor even accept overlooking of racial slurs on Misplaced Pages. They may be used elsewhere, but I support the community sense that they have no place here. If I appeared to be supporting Historiographer, it is simply that I thought there was a plausible case that the words might have been misunderstood. I now know that you are well-acquainted with the history (which was not presented in the original ANI thread, so I defer to your more detailed understanding of the background. I still support the concept of escalating blocks, and think a 3month block following a 72 hour block is a jump too far. I haven't had the "pleasure" of dealing with any of the Korean-Japanese spats, so my view may not be the same as if I had that experience.

Zeibekiko

WP:AE against PANONIAN

Hi,

Since in an ANI entry you've expressed a wish the other day to have PANONIAN sanctioned immediately, I took the pains of filing an ArbCom request against him, which you might want to take a look at (and perhaps comment on). -- CoolKoon (talk) 01:06, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

F16TopGun

Just in case you were unaware, please see this.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:25, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Johannson picture

sorry that whole thing you sent me was confusing lol so why again can't that picture be used? Xpinkxcasualtyx (talk) 17:41, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Because it is non-free. Please check out our non-free content policy. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:54, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Byzantine iconoclasm

I agree with your edits there. Did you notice the removers other edits? These net out to a clear net removal of content on Greek-related articles, under rather bad-tempered edit summaries. I haven't investigated further, but it might well be worth it. Johnbod (talk) 19:51, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, indeed, I noticed that too. He has a pattern of making blanket reverts to old versions from months ago, with no attention to positive intervening edits, without explaining what it is he objects to. I now seem to remember I had noticed him edit-warring on some national naming lameness issue too, a while ago. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:06, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Athleek123 06:34, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Athleek123 06:40, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

BLP territory

Shouldn't an oversight deal with Euzen's latest BLP violation Crude pro-albanian references, like Sandra Vickers, are good only for a laugh --— ZjarriRrethues —  16:33, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Sigh. He's certainly ripe for a report at WP:AE, I'd say. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:41, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Shuppiluliuma SPI

Hi, in case you're interested, I've filed an SPI regarding what I suspect to be the latest Shuppiluliuma sock here . As the admin most familiar with him, your insight would be particularly helpful. For the record, I am also convinced that Namuslu and Turbanistan were socks of his as well. Athenean (talk) 21:54, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Gold Standard 18:43, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

For your information

FYI : Your name has been mentioned here . Tamsier (talk) 16:10, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Just letting you know

That there is another user who has continually been uploading images that violate WP:NONFREE and refuses to accept their warnings and continues to do such. Thought you'd like to know. User talk:XHugoTheNerd. _{MusicFreak7676} 20:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Noor119848/Noormohammed satya

On 9 July 2011 you issued a final warning for copyright problems to User:Noormohammed satya. Probably as a result, the user abandoned that account, and started editing as User:Noor119848 instead. (This is evidenced by the two accounts' contribution history, but more explicitly by the identical content (including the user's name and birthdate) on the two user pages.) You recently issued a similar warning to that account, perhaps without realizing that it was the same contributor. If you check the new account's user talk page history (which has been blanked several times), you'll see that the user has persisted, right up to the present day, in uploading non-free images with missing or incomplete copyright information or fair use rationales, and also related problematic behaviour such as adding unreferenced biographical content, posting a number of copyvio articles, removing speedy deletion templates, and removing copyvio templates. He doesn't appear to have ever responded to the scores of warnings posted on his talk pages, except to periodically remove them.

As you're the administrator who already issued this user a final warning I thought I'd bring it to your attention first before posting to WP:CCI or WP:ANI. Please let me know if you'd like to continue to deal with the issue. —Psychonaut (talk) 11:07, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh dear, what a mess. Yes, I evidently overlooked that identity with the earlier account. Thanks for figuring it all out. I've indeffed him; it doesn't look like there's much of a chance for him to become constructive any time soon. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

He appears to have resumed editing with anonymous IPs almost immediately after your block. I've opened an SPI case at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Noormohammed satya so that others can start tracking and blocking the socks as well. —Psychonaut (talk) 12:27, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Translation request

Could you possibly help me with a translation I need for an article that I'm writing? I'm having trouble with the following sentence: "Es entspricht jedoch dem Wunsche des Führers, dass Ihnen wegen Ihrer Abstammung keine weiteren, über die gesetzlichen Bestimmungen hinausgehenden Beschränkungen auferlegt werden." Any idea what would be a good English formulation for this sentence? The best I've been able to come up with so far is "it is the Führer's wish that no more restrictions that go further than the legal requirements should be imposed on you because of your origins". Prioryman (talk) 11:27, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I think you already captured it quite well. Another version might be: "It is, however, the Führer's wish that you should not be subject to any further restrictions because of your ancestry beyond those required by law." I take it you are writing about this guy here? Interesting case. If you also need the following sentence quoted in the article, I'd render that as "According to his wishes, you are also to be treated favourably in other respects." Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:51, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes indeed, the article's now at Ernst Moritz Hess - do let me know what you think of it! Thanks for your help. Prioryman (talk) 17:23, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

User talk:Youreallycan and block

I've left a message at YRC's talk page, and I would ask you reconsider the unblock request. He did say that he doesn't want to harass, his last post was over an hour and a half before the block, and he has actually shown a great deal of progress in his attitude and communications. For disclosure, I am his mentor and his progress can be seen at User talk:Youreallycan/YRC2.0 where he has voluntarily worked in articles with a self-imposed 1RR and has held to it. I personally feel that a warning would have been the better solution and I was disappointed that it wasn't tried first. Magog was within policy in blocking him, but that doesn't mean it is the best solution. That he politely claims that Magog was involved while also making it clear he will not harass shouldn't affect his unblock request, as blocking doesn't remove his right to express an opinion. If we want problem editors to fix their own problems, then we should meet them half way when they show they are trying hard to do so, and YRC has been spending a great deal of time and effort to fix his communications issues. We should not treat him as if he hasn't. Obviously, I have a bias as I'm mentoring him, but I'm not as colored by this as I am the fact that I've gotten to know YRC and I sincerely think that reconsidering and lifting the block based on his existing statements is more likely to prevent disruption, reduce frustration, and allow him to return to the good work he does here. I wouldn't blame you if you made it clear that he would be wise to extend his self-imposed 1RR to talk space, and that he should contact his mentor about correcting the issues that led to this block. What he did was dumb, but not 1 week block dumb, in my opinion. For the record, he has not contacted me or asked me to interfere in any way in this matter. Another editor pointed me to it, but I had just walked in the door and likely would have found it anyway. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 20:20, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

• Never mind. The issue has been resolved in a positive manner for all concerned. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 02:31, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Request for opinion re: decorative photo

Hi, Future. I respect your experience with photo policy, so I'd like to ask if you might look at these two versions of the short article Vanessa Paradis and render an opinion as to whether four images, including three closeups of the person, and two performance shots from within five years of each other with no discernible difference in look, constitutes image(s) being used decoratively.

• 4 photos: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Vanessa_Paradis&oldid=501134798
• 3 photos: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Vanessa_Paradis&oldid=501149843

Thank you for any help in settling what's becoming an acrimonious dispute at this article. With regards, Tenebrae (talk) 20:54, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

From the way you posed the question, I was expecting to find a really bad case of non-free image overuse, but it turns out these are actually all free photos, right? In that case, I don't think there is any hard and fast policy that tells us how many of them we should be using. It's just a matter of editorial judgment. If people want to pretty up a page with lots of attractive photographs of an admittedly hot performer, there's really no policy limit to how far they can go. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:13, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Istanbul at FAC

Hello again. I just wanted to let you know, in case you were interested, that Istanbul has now been nominated for featured status. Feel free to participate in the discussion regarding its suitability at Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Istanbul/archive1. -- tariqabjotu 22:21, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit War in the Byzantine Empire, et cetera

Everything I've written was properly cited, verifiable, not original research, and written from a neutral point of view, according to the rules. As for the so called "edit war" I've supposedly started, I assure you, not a single shot was fired. Adding three text lines in all, all of which you subsequently deleted, could barely be called editing, let alone casus belli. It so just happened that I accidentally pressed the save button and the subsequent OK buttons before I realised that there was somebody else editing simultaneously. That's all. So I think you're overreacting and that your following me and deleting everything I write is against the rules and ethics, so please stop doing that! UniversalPelasgian (talk) 22:47, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Arb Notice

Why did you not give the IP an Arb notice? Looks like a static IP. --Nug (talk)

Question

I asked you a question on the Massoud talk. Do you have any objections to the commission sentence? Also, what about the following as a compromise: "According to AJP, individuals of both forces committed abuses, but Roy Gutman points out: '...'" This would remove your OR, makes AJP clear, but leaves the interpretation to the reader. JCAla (talk) 18:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

There is a general problem of weight in what you write. We now have one brief, summarized sentence pointing to something critical, and you are burying it under reams and reams of argumentative stuff evidently designed to counteract this criticism, with all the perceived mitigating arguments being given far more room and far more prominence. This includes your insistence on having all those positive things represented in extensive literal quotations. As for the wording suggestion above: no, not good. Linking two sentences with "but" strongly implies that the second is of higher validity than the first, i.e. that it successfully refutes it. You are by no means "leaving the interpretation to the reader" here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:07, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Request for Arbitration

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Admin Involvement and Handling of Edits by Sockpuppets and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide.

Thanks, --TrevelyanL85A2 (talk) 20:07, 8 July 2012 (UTC)