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Talk:Victor Ponta: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 14:48, 15 July 2012 editBiruitorul (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers148,344 edits +← Previous edit Revision as of 22:13, 15 July 2012 edit undoFsol (talk | contribs)388 edits →Thesis linksNext edit →
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Second, to the main point. "]. Misplaced Pages articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources." Now, it's true that primary sources&mdash;in this case, two PDFs purporting to demonstrate Ponta's plagiarism&mdash;are not strictly forbidden. But there is, at the same time, no possible reason to include them when what we have to say about the matter is already said through secondary sources. In this case, we do just that, through ''Adevărul'', ''Gândul'', ''România Liberă'', and so forth. So what exactly is your case for including them, pray tell? - ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 14:48, 15 July 2012 (UTC) Second, to the main point. "]. Misplaced Pages articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources." Now, it's true that primary sources&mdash;in this case, two PDFs purporting to demonstrate Ponta's plagiarism&mdash;are not strictly forbidden. But there is, at the same time, no possible reason to include them when what we have to say about the matter is already said through secondary sources. In this case, we do just that, through ''Adevărul'', ''Gândul'', ''România Liberă'', and so forth. So what exactly is your case for including them, pray tell? - ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 14:48, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

:I would argue that I understand the accepted way to cite sources on Misplaced Pages. But I fail to see how implying that I am "just pretending not to notice" is helpful for an honest discussion.
:According to Misplaced Pages policy, as seen in ], reliable primary information may be used in Misplaced Pages. I quote: "unless restricted by another policy, primary sources that have been reliably published may be used in Misplaced Pages" and also "a primary source may only be used on Misplaced Pages to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts".
:Furthermore, in the same policy, an example is given to describe when primary sources and when secondary/tertiary sources are to be used. The example is of a passage that may be cited but not interpreted through a primary source. Secondary or tertiary sources are required for the interpretation of that passage.
:In our case, the case of Mr. Ponta's plagiarism accusation, we have exactly what the policy recommends: (1) reliable (in my opinion) primary sources which only show the text that is allegedly plagiarised and the text that has been copied, without any interpretation, and (2) interpretations (that you have added along with other editors) that are based on secondary and tertiary sources according to Misplaced Pages policies. -- ] (]) 22:13, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Revision as of 22:13, 15 July 2012

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Thesis links

Apparently, before listing this at WP:DRN, I must first have a discussion on the talk page. I'm loth to talk about this more than necessary, since the issue is so sterile, but let's do so.

First, Fsol, do you seriously not understand that there is an accepted way to cite sources on Misplaced Pages, or are you just pretending not to notice? If you're not into reading style guidelines, have you at least never looked at a featured article, a good article or, heck, this very article, and documented yourself as to how such things are done? Did my thrice-repeated comments on "blind links" just fall on deaf ears? Your imperviousness to rectitude on this issue is staggering.

Second, to the main point. "Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Misplaced Pages articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources." Now, it's true that primary sources—in this case, two PDFs purporting to demonstrate Ponta's plagiarism—are not strictly forbidden. But there is, at the same time, no possible reason to include them when what we have to say about the matter is already said through secondary sources. In this case, we do just that, through Adevărul, Gândul, România Liberă, and so forth. So what exactly is your case for including them, pray tell? - Biruitorul 14:48, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I would argue that I understand the accepted way to cite sources on Misplaced Pages. But I fail to see how implying that I am "just pretending not to notice" is helpful for an honest discussion.
According to Misplaced Pages policy, as seen in WP:PRIMARY, reliable primary information may be used in Misplaced Pages. I quote: "unless restricted by another policy, primary sources that have been reliably published may be used in Misplaced Pages" and also "a primary source may only be used on Misplaced Pages to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts".
Furthermore, in the same policy, an example is given to describe when primary sources and when secondary/tertiary sources are to be used. The example is of a passage that may be cited but not interpreted through a primary source. Secondary or tertiary sources are required for the interpretation of that passage.
In our case, the case of Mr. Ponta's plagiarism accusation, we have exactly what the policy recommends: (1) reliable (in my opinion) primary sources which only show the text that is allegedly plagiarised and the text that has been copied, without any interpretation, and (2) interpretations (that you have added along with other editors) that are based on secondary and tertiary sources according to Misplaced Pages policies. -- Fsol (talk) 22:13, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
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