Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:33, 18 July 2012

Welcome!

Hello, Yobol! Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions to this 💕. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! - Eldereft (cont.) 02:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Misplaced Pages is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General • Spam • Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

A barnstar for you

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		For your tireless contributions in defence of wikipedia policy and against POV pushing. Verbal chat 10:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Vaccine Controversy

I appreciate the message, but I would prefer next time that you ask for specifics before changing my edits - simply because I did not follow customary practices does not negate my reasons for the edit. I understand Undue Weight. My main argument is with argument placing, tone, style, and word usage. I have posted my reasons in detail in the Talk section under the POV section. Perhaps we can collaborate there. Fontevrault (talk) 06:44, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Invitation to communicate

Apologies if this is an inappropriate use of your talk page, feel free to delete this in revision. I am trying to achieve a more efficient understanding of how Misplaced Pages works, or rather of why it works so well. I am a neurobiologist teaching a neurobiology of disease course at Brandeis University. I am deeply impressed with the accuracy of the content in this article, and well, frankly, of almost every article I have consulted (much more so in the realms of academic inquiry than popular culture, but that is not so hard to understand). This has gotten me interested in the process itself. The topic that brought me here (autism and the thimerisol controversy) is arguably one of the most subject to distortion and disinformation on the web. I am sure your own personal intellectual clarity (as well of course to that of the other editors) contributed to the quality of the article. But that is not what surprises me. Why are the crazies (if I may short-cut with this characterization) unable to subvert this content? I am not really interested in the answer with respect to this article, but more globally. (I realize that perhaps if I studied the Wikki culture as embodied in the many help pages etc. I might figure this out in time, but I am hoping for a quicker pointer as a help in the mean time). I do not find it shocking that some articles are to the point and accurate. I find it shocking that virtually all of the articles I consult are. This suggest the editing policies are remarkably resilient and efficient. I am curious as to your view of which policies contribute most to this state of affairs.

feel free to delete this and answer via email (nelson@brandeis.edu) and of course I realize you may not have time to answer in any event. But I appreciate any help you can provide.

best,

Sacha

Sachanelson (talk) 03:36, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Mainstream Media

I know that being bold is one of the tenets, but there is a line between being bold, and unilaterally making decisions to do things that are not warranted. If you have a problem with the page, why not try to fix it instead of deleting it? Joshua Ingram 23:03, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I've reverted this to a redirect, eliminating the imported material, because Conservapedia's licence terms are not free enough—they reserve the right to revoke their licence, making it impossible to assert (the irrevocable) CC-BY-SA 3.0 in good faith. Please see this article's talk page for details. TheFeds 02:17, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Request For Mediation

A request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning Vaccine_controversy has been filed with the Mediation Committee (MedCom). You have been named as a party in this request. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Vaccine_controversy and then indicate in the "Party agreement" section whether you would agree to participate in the mediation or not.

Mediation is a process where a group of editors in disagreement over matters of article content are guided through discussing the issues of the dispute (and towards developing a resolution) by an uninvolved editor experienced with handling disputes (the mediator). The process is voluntary and is designed for parties who disagree in good faith and who share a common desire to resolve their differences. Further information on the MedCom is at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Committee; the policy the Committee will work by whilst handling your dispute is at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Committee/Policy; further information on Misplaced Pages's policy on resolving disagreements is at Misplaced Pages:Resolving disputes.

If you would be willing to participate in the mediation of this dispute but wish for its scope to be adjusted then you may propose on the case talk page amendments or additions to the list of issues to be mediated. Any queries or concerns that you have may be directed to an active mediator of the Committee or by e-mailing the MedCom's private mailing list (click here for details).

Please indicate on the case page your agreement to participate in the mediation within seven days of the request's submission.

Thank you, Sebastian Garth (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC).

Request for mediation accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party has been accepted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Vaccine controversy. For the Mediation Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 01:20, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Acceptance by mediator

Hi Yobol. I am willing to mediate this case. If you are ready to proceed, let's begin on the case talk page. Sunray (talk) 22:38, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

New approach

I've asked some questions in a new section of this title. Would you be able to respond? Sunray (talk) 20:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Proposal to close

I'm not sure whether you saw my note on the mediation talk page, but I am proposing to close the mediation. However, there are some conditions under which we could continue. Any comments? Sunray (talk) 08:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Please accept my GF

Please accept that I am editing in good faith. I am a supporter of vaccines and completely against homoeopathy and other unscientific mumbo jumbo. Looking at your edit history, I doubt you are working for industry, but seem more motivated by a concern for the defence of science. I am a brother in arms in this sphere, but I also have concerns about corporations whitewashing products in the face of persistent and justifiable scientific concerns about safety. Even if a chemical only affects a small % of consumers, this needs to be acknowledged. TickleMeister (talk) 03:41, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Peter Duesberg

Please explain why you've reordered the chronology of the subject's career and removed a citation needed tag for an assertion about what he is best known for. You also undid grammatical improvements and clarifications.

The subsequent changes you made look pretty good to me. Can you help reorder the body so it is chronological and the AIDS sections are grouped together? This seems to make the most sense and to be standard. Freakshownerd (talk) 03:19, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

WP:ANI

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Salvio 15:38, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Transcendental meditation

A user has commented on your position here stating "some external editors progressively changed their position as they received more information". Wondering if you could clarify your position at the RfC Thanks Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Controversial issues

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		Thank you for getting involved in the controversial discussion at Transcendental Meditation. Few would wade into such a heated and draw out discussion. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:45, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Blush

Thanks for fixing this . I read that as the NPOV Noticeboard, not the NPOV article. Fell Gleaming 17:21, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

NP, happens to everyone. Yobol (talk) 17:54, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Thiomersal controversy

The article Thiomersal controversy you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Thiomersal controversy for eventual comments about the article. Well done! Aaron north (talk) 17:58, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

WP:V

Hi, you recently commented on a talk page to update WP:V, concerning the use of academic and media sources. Proposal 5 attracted a good amount of support, however a concern has been voiced that implementing the proposal represents a major policy change that would require wider input first. The discussion is at Wikipedia_talk:Verifiability#Current_status; it would be great if you could drop by. --JN466 22:37, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Apologies and a promise of a fresh start from me

Yobol, it has occurred to me that I have been acting rashly towards your work on the Weston Price article for irrational reasons (probably tied to larger fiasco I've been too involved in recently). My attitude is not deserved and I apologize for it. I'm going to make a concerted effort to work in a collegiate, respectful and thoughtful manner. You don't have to respond even but I wanted you to know that. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 04:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Price

I haven't been following the developments on the talk page. Reading about dentists is more fun than visiting them, but it's still not my main focus. If there's a particular issue where I can bring my experience or give a policy opinion, I can do that. But if you want to solve all of the problems, or even diagnose the problems, then that's more than I'm up for. I suggest reading about dispute resolution.   Will Beback  talk  10:14, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Price Sources

You have done good work bringing sources to light (as has Bruce, I think), but you did miss a critical one. http://www.drcat.org/articles_interviews/html/rootcanal.html Just read it, you'll thank me. The middle is where it really picks up. Ocaasi (talk) 14:10, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

That was a joke, if you didn't get to it yet. This is actually a nice overview of the situation from an Australian dental website http://www.shdc.com.au/Root-Canal-Treatment.html#5. Ocaasi (talk) 14:18, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Trust me, I've read it (and others), it's amazing what's presented as medical facts on the internet. I agree that Bruce has done a good job finding sources on Price (in general) and he has good intentions. I just think his approach to this one issue is incorrect, and I suspect he's very much like me - very stubborn once something gets into his head. Yobol (talk) 15:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

You mentioned Ludwigs in your recent edit comment, was that in reference to a discussion somewhere about an 'overexuberant reviewer'? If so, can you point me to it... thx Ocaasi (talk) 14:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

It was from Ludwigs2's edit comments dated 11/1. He removed several comments like that. Yobol (talk) 15:28, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Christine Maggiore

I've never new at an human-rubber was! Now I know... How do you define a "reliable source"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by V0db (talk • contribs) 22:06, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

okay

fine then, i made a mistake thanksf or reverting it User:Smith Jones 21:46, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Np, just trying to keep it from being cluttered. Yobol (talk) 02:25, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for this - I think that's a clear improvement in sourcing. The old source was bugging me, because it was clearly so far below where the bar should be for an encyclopedia. Thanks for improving it, and more generally for your diligent and constructive editing across numerous articles. MastCell  19:20, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words, unfortunately these medical fringe articles are too full of them. Oh well, I guess that just gives me something to look forward to working on after I get through with these laetrile articles. :) Yobol (talk) 02:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

You have been Reported for violating the Edit War policy

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:AN/I —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.36.251.228 (talk) 19:19, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Here's the proper link, and yes, we're considering a community ban of this anti-fluoridation fanatic who is giving their cause a very bad name. -- Brangifer (talk) 19:51, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Semmelweis Awards

Well done pulling up that stuff. You might find that IP editors editing history fascinating, just saying.... Thanks for all of your hard work. Dbrodbeck (talk) 23:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Anyone really surprised that one form of denialism flows so easily into others? Yobol (talk) 00:52, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, indeed, though it is quite a list... Dbrodbeck (talk) 01:23, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

In for a penny...Yobol (talk) 01:28, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

January 2011

Hello. Regarding the recent revert you made to Misplaced Pages talk:Identifying reliable sources: you may already know about them, but you might find Misplaced Pages:Template messages/User talk namespace useful. After a revert, these can be placed on the user's talk page to let them know you considered their edit was inappropriate, and also direct new users towards the sandbox. They can also be used to give a stern warning to a vandal when they've been previously warned. Thank you. Happy editing! Zachlipton (talk) 19:12, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Fluoride

You are probably holding a conversation with a sockpuppet at Talk:Water fluoridation. Almost every unregistered or newly registered editor there is trying to weasel a conversation as a route to validation. The risks associated with water fluoridation is just not a theme that engages many serious people. I am not sure, but the pattern is familiar. --Smokefoot (talk) 17:43, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed that it looks like GeneralMandrakeRipper and his merry band, but I try to follow WP:AGF as much as possible. I see no harm in pointing out relevant policies in the chance this is an actual new editor, but I do not plan on having protracted discussions with them either. Thanks for the heads up though. Yobol (talk) 17:57, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I figured. I feel the same way, i.e. that some advice or reminders of guidelines would be useful to communicate. I have tried many times because these are not intrinsically stupid people, but I have kind of given up because there is no conversation. Best wishes, --Smokefoot (talk) 18:00, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

About AIDS Denialists

Hi buddy. We are men of ilustration and enlightening. So, I'm still very surprised that you keep on erasing my contributions about AIDS Denialism. Your argument of "Neutrality laxness" seems to me nonesensed at all. In any paragraph I wrote is a sentence which contains a personal opinion or a subjective issue. I've just added the most recent news about this aspect. Is this wrong??

I'll remind you, just in case, what I did. I changed some terms and words used in the article, which seems to me pejorative and subjective. I added a most recent list of Nobel Awarded AIDS denialists and the updated point of view of Dr. Montagnier's theory about AIDS, which amazed both dissidents and officialists. What's wrong about that?? Moreover, I wrote the full diagnose of death of Christine Maggiore (hallmark AIDS pneumonia...) for enhancing the fact that she, paradoxically, died of AIDS, so...

Even if there might have been mistakes in the editing: Is that a reason for fully erasing my contributions?? If you do think my editing is not neutral: why, instead of erasing it and leaving the article in his original state (and believe me, mate, is nor neutral or updated at all), didn't you just make the corrections so it can look more neutral and clear?? Wouldn't be that more fittable for Misplaced Pages's mission??

Anyway, inverse psychology is more than usual. You don't need to be Karl Jung for knowing that neither Sigmund Freud. Perhaps that article, in its original form, does reflect someone's opinion and by accusing me of Neutrality Laxness, actually you are defending someone's vision. Hope I'm fully mistaken with this.

Hoping we can achieve enlightening, neutral enlightening, greets you kindly: Milikguay — Preceding unsigned comment added by Milikguay (talk • contribs) 23:55, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I must say that I do not fully comprehend what you are trying to get across here, but from what I can see, you believe your edits qualify as neutral. I disagree, and would like you to take your proposed edits to the talk page of said article where it can be discussed at length there with the rest of the community. Yobol (talk) 00:01, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome. That's exactly what I'm proposing, man. Adding new important information, that's all!! Milikguay (talk) 18:58, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Yo

Not my intent to start an edit war, just wasn't sure if you knew why I was removing it in first place

Will be over to talk page later, but thought should clear the air :) Egg Centric (talk) 16:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Neat

Did you see? Apparently you're my sockpuppet. Or the other way around. We should give each other barnstars! WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 01:40, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Awesome. No, no, I'm definitely the sockpuppet. I don't even have a user page or a fancy sig like you - that's the dead giveaway. And how does he know this isn't our...er, my...real name? Yobol (talk) 01:59, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I should edit that page more often so I could be a sockpuppet too, as I like both your editing, and, well I just want to be like you guys.... Dbrodbeck (talk) 02:13, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The more the merrier! And don't sell your contributions short, either. You do lots of good work, too, just keep it up. :) Yobol (talk) 02:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll be the bad cop sockpuppet account, I like to swear. Who wants to be good cop, and who wants to be indifferent cop? Also, we should occasionally !vote against each other in AFD and other discussions so our sockpuppeting is more subtle. Now, I'm the deletionist account, so we should write down who is an inclusionist.

Incidentally, do we remember why we took that long break between July, 2007 and January, 2009? Did we forget the password for the Yobol account? And I didn't realize we were so interested in animal cognition, since I spent most of my time (with this account) bashing mediocre fantasy authors. Frankly I don't know how we segregated our contributions that well, now I can't remember what's my account for criticizing poorly-done science versus badly-written derivative trash versus...I don't even remember what my Dbrodbeck account was for.

Damn, this sockpuppeting thing is hard work. Way, way harder than just digging up sources to substantiate points. Hardly seems worth it really. And we should really pick a pronoun for us, I'm having a hard time telling if I'm a hive entity, confused individual or a royal personage. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 02:52, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I believe we err I or (man this is hard to keep straight) invented this account because we all like hockey, video games, and psychology so much.... Dbrodbeck (talk) 03:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Ooh! I call "indifferent cop" for this account. We're too lazy to be good. Now that we've been "caught", can we claim "split personality" as a defense? Apparently when we're on this account, we have an unhealthy fascination with vaccination. The Dbrodbeck account seems much more fun, need to spend more time on that. (Yeah, I'm thinking royal we is the way to go). Yobol (talk) 03:23, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

You know if you spell dbrodbeck backwards you get Lobby, oh wait.... The dbrodbeck account got a flu shot this year and asked the MD if he would get autism, just for fun. OK, the dbrodbeck account should be the good cop I think. Dbrodbeck (talk) 03:30, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

It's definitely time... it's been awhile now since I retired my bad-hand sockpuppet account. :P MastCell  04:09, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Uh-oh, this sockpersonality hates hockey. Can we keep that straight? I did get a flu shot though. Yobol, looks like you are the only personality that didn't, so you might have to get H1N1 from some tainted pork and die. Don't worry, you'll be resurrected as Boyol, a smart-talking hermaphrodite with super-powers. One thing will be helpful, I think all personalities are Canadian.

Sigh. I miss OrangeMarlin. Always made my civility look good in comparison. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 13:54, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Um, yeah...Canadian...anhwho, I always marvel at the civility you guys have to the patience to show with all the nonsense you have to put up with. As my watchlist has grown, so has the number of times I just want to reach through the screen and smack some sense into people. I think I might have some anger management issues - I blame the fluoride in the water. :| Yobol (talk) 16:28, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Ha, you're not talking about OrangeMarlin...it definitely helps when you consistently win every single battle a POV-pushing douchebag. I personally find writing FAQs for fringe pages quite satisfying. Also helps to take a break now and again.

But really, the best medicine is having all the right sources. Any moron can argue with an editor, but none can argue with a reliable source. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 22:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to break into your wonderful conversation, but I just found that last sentence hilarious. Oh, if only that were true :) NW (Talk) 02:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

For me it comes with my job. I teach intro psych now and then and have to deal with many claims of the paranormal. A student once claimed to have been cured of her addiction to nicotine by hypnosis. I explained that the success rate of that therapy was the same as cold turkey. She got quite upset. Eventually she dropped the class... Dbrodbeck (talk) 23:21, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

FAQ - now there's a good idea. I can think of a couple of pages loaded with SPAs that would benefit from one... I hear ya about the sources though. One thing I was consistently marveled at was User:Eubulides and the way he would calmly deal with POV pushers by just throwing RS after MEDRS at them. Too bad he hasn't been around in a while...Yobol (talk) 01:27, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I keep hoping that Eub is editing as a sockpuppet somewhere. S/he was indeed a fantastic editor and it was a terrible loss when s/he left. Hope springs eternal though - have you ever met User:TimVickers or User:SandyGeorgia? They are my gold standards for civil editing. However, any account that has access to a decent journal library is usually a happy, smackdown-enabled account. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 15:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Don't run into them much from my little corner of Misplaced Pages, though from what I've seen they are excellent contributors. Some good people to emulate - User:MastCell and User:2over0 and others also very good at dealing with POV pushers civilly. Need more of their like and less of the POV pushers - not only do the POV pushers not add anything to the encyclopedia, I'm sure they eventually wear down and drive away the good editors in the bargain. Yobol (talk) 17:20, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

TV and SG are extremely prolific and great at responding to questions (TV is usually a great source for article reprints too). You've only 2100 edits and are coming in at a time when editing in general on wikipedia seems to be slowing down considerably, if you spend enough time here you'll probably see them. Mastcell and 2over0 I've interacted with a fair number of times, both are excellent in my experience.

You might be interested in WP:CPUSH. Unfortunately it hasn't reached level of even a guideline and would be impractical to implement, but usually the community can sniff out a POV pusher on AN or ANI without much problem. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 17:46, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Geeeeez, I just heard my name here-- a year too late! My, how things change-- now the place is such a circus they routinely haul me off to ANI, and folks like TV and MC are dropping like flies. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 09:29, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Due to my job I can get pretty much any journal article, if anyone ever needs one just drop me a line. Dbrodbeck (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

And if Dbrodbeck isn't around, feel free to drop me a line. NW (Talk) 02:58, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the offers, I have access through my job as well. I wish I were as confident at the community being able to deal with POV warriors as WLU...we've had numerous SPAs at the aspartame group of articles being an enormous time sink for months now with no end in sight, despite accusations of shilling for Big Pharma, etc. ANI has been absolutely worthless in this regard. Ah well, I guess being accused as part of a conspiracy on the talk page may just mean someone's doing something right in keeping the conspiracy-mongering off the real article... :D Yobol (talk) 22:45, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I've three offers to give me sources. It's a race to see who can find this one the fastest. GO!

Actually, I'm not sure how hard this will be to find. If anyone can find it, let me know and I'll send you an e-mail. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 12:13, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, I am having trouble getting it while at home, so I have emailed the University Librarian to get it for me, hurry up Ken (for that is his name) I want to win this .... Dbrodbeck (talk) 12:46, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Your prize is to damned with faint praise. I'm planning on "my, yes, what an adequate job." Not even an exclamation point. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 18:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

My institution doesn't have a subscription to that journal either...sounds like a real gem. Go go gadget librarian!Yobol (talk) 01:08, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

We do have a subscription, but there is a problem with the Wiley database at our end right now, as soon as I get it, I will pass it on. Ken is working on it, well actually I think he is at a hockey game right now as it is Friday night, but, he knows about it.... Dbrodbeck (talk) 01:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

You might want to look here, or not....

You have been mentioned here, thought you should know. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Again.2C_at_aspartame_controversy Dbrodbeck (talk) 01:19, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Laugh. First time someone mentioned me on ANI, WP:BOOMERANG was invoked and they were warned. 2nd time, they were community banned, and now 3rd time has a block associated. Sadly, I doubt this will have any effect on people's tendency to invoke a food industry conspiracy here on Misplaced Pages. I must say, the block did restore some of my confidence in Misplaced Pages, though... Yobol (talk) 01:09, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Same reaction here yeah. Dbrodbeck (talk) 03:49, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk page violations

Just to let you know: I plan to remove clear talk page violations from the AIDS denialism page. After being away from Misplaced Pages since August, I'm amazed that certain denialist agenda editors continue to waste so much of your (and everyone's) valuable time with fruitless debate. Please object and discuss if you disagree with my position, but I strongly oppose the abuse of Misplaced Pages as a publicity tool for extreme fringe ideas and feel that a hard line on violations is warranted. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 19:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. About time we do something more constructive than beat our head against that POV wall over and over again...Yobol (talk) 03:35, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

ANI Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at ANI regarding edit warring, meatpuppetry, etc. The discussion is about the topic Aspartame controversy. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Immortale (talk • contribs) 11:31, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Located here. -- Brangifer (talk) 21:56, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

You can probably guess what the merits of the complaint are without even looking at it! Egg Centric (talk) 22:00, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but that's true of any given AN/I complaint. MastCell  00:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Good times. Short of topic bans, I don't foresee this disruption ending in this article. Yobol (talk) 04:00, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

A block and some warnings have been issued. -- Brangifer (talk) 08:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Maybe there is hope for an end to the constant yammering? Yobol (talk) 14:32, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Given the subjects you edit in, not a hope in hell. You're going to be fighting wilful ignorance till you die or stop editing. Maybe the precise nature of the woo will change, and the next great killer is, I dunno, LEDs or something, but the woo ain't going away. Sorry! Egg Centric (talk) 18:21, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Just had to stomp out those embers of hope, didn't you? Yobol (talk) 19:48, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Ignorance is infinite, while patience is not. Ultimately, you will lose patience with the unchecked flow of ignorance, at which point you'll be blocked for incivility. The goal is to accomplish as much as possible before that inevitability comes to pass. MastCell  04:34, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

So many optimists around here. :) Yobol (talk) 04:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Leukemia

I have responded on the talk page for Leukemia and would like to hear your interpretation of the sources I have provided and particularly how it constitutes undue weight.--Senor Freebie (talk) 01:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Weston Price

I don't have a problem with your removal of the rest of BruceGrubb recent edits. I find this all very frustrating. Note the new comments at Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#MEDRS_and_Weston_Price_biography and Misplaced Pages:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#Weston_Price_and_Focal_infection_theory. He appears to have great difficulty understanding and applying WP:DR, WP:CON, WP:NPOV, WP:RS, WP:MEDRS, etc, but I think some sort of response would be helpful, especially at NPOVN, where no one else has responded yet. --Ronz (talk) 16:58, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, he has a bad habit of not notifying the respective talk pages/editors about these noticeboard postings. Responded to NPOVN, looks like others have already responded at RSN. This is all very tedious. Yobol (talk) 23:11, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Hey

Hey, you told me to ask if I had questions here http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Synethos And well since you're the only one I know here. I decided to do so :P

How do I add (legal) pictures? As I want to add one to this article; http://en.wikipedia.org/Periodic_table_of_shapes Preferably from here: http://coates.ma.ic.ac.uk/fanosearch/ But I'm not sure if I can, etc.

Thanks, --Synethos (talk) 20:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't have any experience adding images, but guidelines/policies that would be helpful are likely WP:Images, WP:Picture tutorial, WP:NFCC and WP:NFC. Hope that helps! Yobol (talk) 01:18, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

talk about it

I started the conversation here: Misplaced Pages talk:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)#Altmed scope?. Dicklyon (talk) 03:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Already responded. Yobol (talk) 03:16, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

WAP

I encouraged Bruce, seriously, to publish his research independently. It's really good stuff, interesting perspective, completely OR. Basically, the issue is that he's using sources which are ancient. They may not be purely primaries, but if this was a medical article, they wouldn't even be looked at they are so old. I think anything from before 1980 should be considered a historical source requiring his original research to determine its current relevance and significance. Of course there is not HISTRS, like MEDRS, but maybe that will help. Or give me the exact problem with his edits (I think it's synthesis from old sources), and I'll look around for a clearer explanation. Ocaasi (talk) 01:52, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

It's the same old synthesis problem. He's actually found a couple of good new sources, but continues to try to synthesize material to fit some preconceived notion about Price which I can't explain. That, in addition to his tendency to post walls of quotes, makes discussing anything with him beyond tedious. He should try to get it published; at least then we'd be able to use it as a source. But I'm finding it tedious to wade through his same old arguments over and over again; any nudge to ask him to stop the coatracking of FIT in the Price article would be appreciated. Yobol (talk) 01:57, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Weston_Price.2C_NPOV.2C_and_MEDRS regarding an issue with which you are involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BruceGrubb (talk • contribs) 09:57, 23 February 2011

I'm thinking it's time for an RFC/U. Think it over for a day or two: they take a while to draft, and you'll want to have it procedurally wikilawyer-proof as soon as it goes live. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:36, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Never been a part of one nor even seen one done. I guess I'll see how he reacts to outside input before doing anything that would eat up my time, which is in short supply on here anyways. Yobol (talk) 02:33, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Keep up the good fight

I like what you're doing. And ignore all that civility bullshit. It's better to be right, backed by evidence, than cave into the whining of the pseudoscience and junk medicine pushing crowd. IMHO.  :) LeftCoastMan (talk) 01:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, but ignoring civility would get me kicked off of here fairly quickly given the controversial areas I tend to edit in. Just trying to make Misplaced Pages better one edit at a time. :) Yobol (talk) 04:16, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

hi.

aids denialism. my question is 'what's the deal there'? can you answer or does the article actually.. is there fatty foods make you fat denialism? ya know-- why holocaust denialism exists I can get my head around a little bit. does that make sense?

I will look at the article closely & follow up if I am still not sure. S*K*A*K*K 16:06, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I'm not sure I understand your question. If you are asking me why people believe in such a thing, the psychology behind it is largely outside my area of expertise, but Michael Specter's book "Denialism" may be a good place to start (haven't read it, but was recommended to me). Yobol (talk) 16:21, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Autism lead section

Hi Yobol,
I was wondering why the scientific journal of the study took by Dr. Doreen Granpeesheh at the Center for Autism and Related Disorders (CARD), who reported cases of recovered children, cannot be added as a source in the article.
Thanks for your time.
ATC 03:14, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

2 main reasons why I thought the review was more appropriate. First, the lead of the article should summarize the information in the article; it would therefore be unusual to use new sources in the lead that are not in the body of the article. Second, the preferred type of sources for medical claims (see WP:MEDRS) are secondary reviews. The article you cite is a primary study, and therefore not a preferred source. Yobol (talk) 03:21, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Coconut oil further reading

Are you aware of the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Further_reading_removal_again. Older sources are often useful reading. Do you have a better source than World Oilseeds for the chemistry of coconut oil? Do you have a better work on the late XXth century history of processing in 3rd world countries than Grimwood? --Bejnar (talk) 16:22, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I was not. Thank you for the notice, I will respond there. Yobol (talk) 16:25, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

PPNF

Hi Yobol, I just started an article for the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation, which actually preceded the Weston A. Price Foundation significantly. If you want to stop in and help out with sourcing, or check its descriptions, that would be great. I think the FIT situation is at least moving a bit in a better direction, although there are bigger differences about how to treat sources (and which sources to treat). Anyway, cheers, Ocaasi 08:23, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

I was actually surprised when I didn't see this article when I first editing the Weston Price article; I'll try to get to it when I can, but real life has kept my time on here short, and I've had a few articles I've been wanting to update on the back burner recently. Interestingly, one of them is the organic food article and the nutritional qualities of organic v. conventional foods which should tie in to the Price Pottenger article as well (already updated the safety section of organic food recently). Yobol (talk) 18:53, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

"Edit War" concerning article on Duesberg Hypothesis

This sequence of edits was initiated by the removal (with no discussion of the type you recommend) of a minor edit I made in two places in the article. My attempt to compromise by accepting the other contributor's stated point for the edit was met by its removal again by the other editor. I then responded by tagging the article as POV, since it does not present a balanced and neutral view of Dr. Duesberg's views, and added my reasons to the Discussion page. So please clarify what your objection is. Thanks.Roberterubin (talk) 22:22, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Instead of reverting and re-adding information that is objected to, discuss on the talk page. There is almost never a reason to revert more than 3 times in a day, and you will be blocked if you do so. Yobol (talk) 22:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

With respect, the policy applies to the other editor as well, and to you also. You'll note that the only initial objection mentioned to my two edits had to do with my insertion of "majority", and I subsequently removed that. But the first edit, referring to Kary Mullis' support of Duesberg, was also removed. It was only after three of these had been done, that the other editor posted his rationale on the Discussion page. By the way, I do not believe Professor Duesberg is correct, but I do believe an article stating his views should not be contaminated by bias, which this one surely is.Roberterubin (talk) 23:55, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

With respect, the warning was given to you as you seem to be an unexperienced editor based on your edit count, and I wanted to explain this bright line policy as well as prevent you from doing something that could get you blocked. Any further discussion about the Duesburg hypothesis article should take place at the article talk page, and not here. Yobol (talk) 00:31, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

FYI. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 00:10, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Wow. This editor has about as many edits to the talk page of the Duesberg article as he does to that case page. Yobol (talk) 00:31, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Note

Note. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 10:35, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

WLU it is impolite and a bit dubious to leave cryptic notes like this. It opens the door to speculation that you and Yobol are surreptitiously co-ordinating your actions. I would request that if you talk about me in the future you do so clearly and plainly out in the open. Thanks. Lambanog (talk) 11:12, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

If I wanted to do it surreptitiously, I would have used e-mail. This is the kind of brief, neutral note to interested parties that is supported by WP:CANVAS. You may read it as cryptic, I'm simply not bothering to include details when they are all on your talk page.

Claiming this is some sort of sneaky, behind the scenes dealing is absurd considering it's on a talk page, and all I'm doing is pointing two (the other party is Ocaasi, but I'm sure you already knew that) interested parties towards my notice. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 11:24, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually I didn't know that until you told me on the other page. It's an improvement WLU, please keep it up. Lambanog (talk) 11:53, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, and you could have asked me this question on my talk page instead of cluttering up Yobol's. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 12:25, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the note, I was thinking the same thing. Responded there. Yobol (talk) 12:35, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Sheesh

I wish I were across this stuff a bit better. What do these people think? Do they imagine there isn't an autism researcher who wouldn't sell his soul for a cure? Grrrrrrr! Sorry. Just had to vent. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 18:12, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

A very wise Wikipedian once made an incisive and apropos comment here on this page. How do you get into the mind of a denialist to figure out what they're thinking ("Of course the WHO, FDA, CDC, National Academies of Sciences, etc. etc. are in on the conspiracy to prevent the spread THE TRUTH(tm) about thimerosal!")? Yobol (talk) 18:39, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

That was great. Thanks :) I'm thinking of asking him if he believes the Queen is a lizard. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 18:54, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

WP:SHUN is starting to look like a real good idea, btw. They'll probably leave soon if everyone stopped paying so much attention to them. Yobol (talk) 19:23, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Concur. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 06:22, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Here's a decent article on that very subject by Chris Mooney: NW (Talk) 23:32, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your input at Talk:Chronic fatigue syndrome Ward20 (talk) 23:27, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

That comment on talk:autism

I was going to use one of the lines that I use on student essays that are confusing "I know what those words mean, but not in that order" but thought the better of it... Dbrodbeck (talk) 03:33, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Heh, good one. I was about to make a snarky comment but I thought better of it too. What's interesting is that the paragraph appears grammatically correct (nouns, verbs, etc in the right order) and yet it still makes no sense. Hopefully they'll reply so we can get a translation. Yobol (talk) 13:33, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I think you should consider the possibility that you're interacting with computer-generated text; see Mark V Shaney. I've actually considered building software which would programatically create realistic-sounding Misplaced Pages talk-page posts, for the lulz. The simplest approach would be to use a relevant context-free grammar combined with a random-number generator, a la SCIgen (a program which generates scientific papers, some of which have been unwittingly accepted for presentation at various meetings). Slightly more complex, but also more interesting, would be to use an order-k Markov chain, a la Mark V Shaney.

This latter approach would work like this: you have a bot download - let's say - the 500 busiest talk pages on Misplaced Pages and parse them to construct the Markov model. Then, you use the model to construct realistic-sounding posts. Given a sufficiently large training text, you can get surprisingly good results - for instance, an order-8 Markov model trained on the King James Bible can produce impressively biblical output. The output is often along the lines of "grammatically correct but makes little sense", but given the baseline level of sense evident on Misplaced Pages talk pages, it would be interesting to see if such probabilistically-generated posts stood out in any way from background. Anyhow, just a thought. MastCell  18:36, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I say we do it and write a paper, heck, I was thinking of applying for promotion next year... In all seriousness, that is really cool. Dbrodbeck (talk) 20:09, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually this reminded me a lot of the Automatic Complaint-Letter Generator I've seen plague multiple forums on the interwebs. I think that experiment would probably fool people for a while, which is an indictment of the level of real discussion that takes place on article talk pages...Yobol (talk) 01:19, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I have always been partial to the Postmodern Essay Generator Dbrodbeck (talk) 02:55, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Good stuff, couldn't tell the difference. Yobol (talk) 14:00, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Reminds me of this. Dbrodbeck, if you're serious, I am (half-)serious as well, although I suspect that time spent on this endeavor will actually work against real-life promotion in my case. :P The cool thing about a Markov model is that it could be dynamically "taught" by feeding it relevant texts, which is way neater than a MadLibs-expansion-type approach used by the Complaint Letter Generator et al. The model would be fairly easy to construct. The biggest technical hurdle for me would be parsing talk pages - for instance, I'm not good enough with regular expressions to figure out the best way to remove signatures from talk pages. It's possible someone else already has a solution, though, or there are various hacks to get around it. MastCell  19:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I too am half serious... It might be a fun project. Dbrodbeck (talk) 19:41, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

You know you're a nerd when you find this insightful, funny, and had an idea this might be a good teaching tool for your students... Thanks for introducing me to that site, now I have more places to kill with my time. Yobol (talk) 20:20, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I have that comic on my door at the University.... Dbrodbeck (talk) 20:24, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

xkcd is the gift that keeps on giving. You might want to add this one to your didactic material, although this is my personal favorite. MastCell  21:21, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Are you still working on the Mary G. Enig article?

I feel the time has come to remove the banners. All of the advocacy problems seem to be cleared up, and there are quite a lot of sources for an article this size. Not surprisingly at least one editor disagrees and at least one agrees with me. I am attempting to build a consensus within the sometimes hostile environment over there and it has been trying. I must admit I have not kept as cool a head as I should. Any input you may have would be appreciated. Colincbn (talk) 07:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

AIDS Denialism - Adding

Hi! Well, that info I'm adding is something new presented by the denialists. Is Etienne de Harven's position of HIV as an HERV. It was published last year and caused some disrupt among them, specially with the Perth Group. The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons presented it. Well, they are not the most reliable source of the world, as I told you before, but it is a somehow acceptable source from the denialist guys. I think is a respectable info we can add, as at least, is sourced enough. Milikguay (talk) 19:08, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Take relevant questions about articles to the article talk page, where others can comment. I do not comment on specific article questions on this talk page. Yobol (talk) 19:18, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Arydberg

Is back at Talk:Aspartame controversy, I thought you might want to know..... Dbrodbeck (talk) 01:50, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Sigh. What's sad is he appears to have been counting down the days until his topic ban ran out. Yobol (talk) 03:47, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

So it seems, and bringing back dorway.com again. Ahh well... Dbrodbeck (talk) 03:49, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, how many times does someone need to be pointed to WP:MEDRS before they actually look at it? How much time can one editor waste of everyone else on that page before they're not welcome anymore? Yobol (talk) 04:07, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Editor assistance

This is just to let you know that an article you may have contributed to is the subject of a discussion at Editor assistance requests. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Beat you by mere seconds...

to a citation of When did you stop beating your wife?! ;) — Scientizzle 20:17, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

*shakes fist* Great minds...:P Yobol (talk) 20:21, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Stroopwafel

Remember to eat plenty of organic stroopwafels while working on Misplaced Pages; they can cure any disease known to mankind. Greetings from Amsterdam, Wasbeer 11:41, 25 June 2011 (UTC) p.s. Would you please be so kind to take a look at Adelle Davis, I've used the NPOV template on it because the article is extremely one-sided.

I can confirm that they are very tasty! JFW | T@lk 00:17, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, look tasty! Will take a closer look when I have more of a chance; these "diet" BLPs tend to be WP:COATRACKs. At first blush, these appears to be the case with, poor in-line citations to boot, making verification difficult. Sigh. Yobol (talk) 01:50, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

As an update, there appears to be some good biographical sources for her; will try to add them as I have a chance (there's about a 100 other articles I've been wanting to improve too). Yobol (talk) 18:44, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

You are awesome. Thanks a lot! I give you a lot of wikilove because you did an amazing job rewriting Adelle Davis! Greetings from Amsterdam, Wasbeer 13:31, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Yobol (talk) 13:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Objections to evolution

1. Pls. explain why you are not able to enlist your objections against my text that you erased: . Do you still hold a position that the text should be kept out? If yes, what is your reasoning? Stating "Numerous objections" without specifying a single one is hardly to be considered as valid evidence that my text is violating any of the WP rules. Should I interpret your refraining from objection specification in a way that your position has changed and you do not dispute my text anymore? Pls. explain. 2. Pls. also explain why you had erased the Misplaced Pages-sourced image. Thanx--Stephfo (talk) 23:55, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

User page deletion

I hope it's something benign and not to do with my or Mastcell's prediction here. You're doing a good job, don't let the bastards get you down. Egg Centric 18:57, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh no, my user page has been redlinked for a while - never found a need to have one. Someone erroneously posted a message to it probably thinking it was my talk page. Just had it removed, is all. It won't be this easy to get rid of me. :) Yobol (talk) 19:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Note (sequel)

Note. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 13:31, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Mentioned you

here. Anthonyhcole (talk) 12:16, 19 August 2011 (UTC)--

Thanks for the kind words. Looks like an important topic to be addressed, it will be interesting to see how ArbCom does with it. Yobol (talk) 13:45, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

It's a bit of an octopus, and the terms are vague so I'll be very impressed if they can draft something useful. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 17:09, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I would be too. I would think a case with such a wide scope would be difficult to have specific findings useful enough to actually settle the current multitude of issues. Yobol (talk) 16:32, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Bio-Identical Hormone Replacement Therapy

Hello,

Since it seems we agree to disagree, I have opened a dispute resolution. All I am asking for is that both sides of this are fairly represented. Just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean that millions of other people who do are wrong. Let's just let anyone reading this entry understand that there are studies and books that support it and those that don't. Nutritiondr (talk) 02:11, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit war report

I have made an edit war report involving you at EWN should you wish to remark or comment there. — TransporterMan (TALK) 18:07, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Mercury

Hi Yobol you deleted a entry in the mercury article after a short time it was marked as obscure. It might be better to do a google scholar search and a google book search before deleting content. There is evidence that that part of the article contained valuable informations.

• Kang-Yum, E; Oransky, SH (1992). "Chinese patent medicine as a potential source of mercury poisoning". Veterinary and human toxicology. 34 (3): 235–8. PMID 1609495.
• Liu, J.; Shi, J.-Z.; Yu, L.-M.; Goyer, R. A.; Waalkes, M. P. (2008). "Mercury in Traditional Medicines: Is Cinnabar Toxicologically Similar to Common Mercurials?". Experimental Biology and Medicine. 233 (7): 810–7. doi:10.3181/0712-MR-336. PMC 2755212. PMID 18445765.
• Ching, Felix M (2008-05-30). Chinese Herbal Drug Research Trends. ISBN 9781600219283.

--Stone (talk) 07:19, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

You are absolutely right, I should have done my due diligence. I have updated the article. Yobol (talk) 08:31, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Sugar

You removed my edit from Sugar stating it "looks like synth". If you read all the sources, along with other references on the same page, you will note that the WHO and FAO have come to this conclusion from a series of meta-studies (not included within this latest section but quoted elsewhere in the article) and these specific references added here are research that pick up this issue directly. Please check the references in detail and, if you still believe this is synth, add the comments on to the Sugar discussion page for everyone to discuss. Thanks.--Ged Sparrowhawk (talk) 04:24, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I checked the sources and can see that some of them do not fully support the entire sentence. I have now segregated these out, and only left the citations that do fully support it. I have still summarised some of the sources with their slightly different takes on the subject, and this gives more of a flavour of the differing approaches and theories while still leaving the original part of the switch from fats to refined carbohydrates linked to the citations that support it. I am not sure some of the language used is the easiest to read, but there should be no concern of synthesis, or actually, probably more that citations were linked to a sentence where they did not fully support it. Though I was a little surprised at the synth comment from the first two citations I checked again, you were right about some of the other articles I had added in to support the case, and splitting these out should have made that more clear. Thanks for pointing this out.--Ged Sparrowhawk (talk) 09:30, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Your opinion is wanted

Please provide your input here on the legitimacy and desirability of accepting external links in relevant Misplaced Pages articles to MedMerits, a new and freely accessible online resource on neurologic disorders. Presto54 (talk) 02:58, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

vitamin C megadosage

Nice write up and sourcing. Kudos. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 16:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, only about a few thousand more Misplaced Pages articles on my to do list...Yobol (talk) 17:02, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

You know that list never gets shorter, right? WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 00:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Sigh...Yobol (talk) 01:40, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Astrology edit

I suggest you raise your concern on the talk page of the article for discussion and evaluation. I don't see how you can claim that is OR myself, but you should raise your view for the concern of the editors involved in that content -- Zac Δ 01:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

More specific RfC on astrology

Thank you for your input on the RfC on Astrology. Because I was informed that the original RfC was too vague and general, I've reformulated it with specific concerns. The reformulated RfC can be found here: ] Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 13:58, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed edit for Astrology

I am making all recent contributors to the Astrology article and its discussion page aware of a proposed amendment to the text which discusses the 1976 'Objections to astrology' and the relevance of Carl Sagan's reaction. This is in response to the comments, criticisms and suggestions that have been made on the published text, with the hope of finding a solution acceptable to all. Your opinion would be very welcome.

The proposal is here.

Thanks, -- Zac Δ 15:48, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Do not do vandalism

Misplaced Pages can not censore scientific articles and can not delete them. Obvioulsy it has to be noted that it is just research, but removal of citations is vandalism (what you do)--Moscone (talk) 16:59, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

No, disagreement about the relevance of specific content is not "vandalism". Please see what is not vandalism. MastCell  17:13, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

No, do have citations for this? Can you really say that the scientific articles are not relevant? Or it just censorship for protection of the pharmaceutical profit?--Moscone (talk) 17:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I wasn't able to parse that. Did I say that scientific articles weren't relevant? And while accusing others of being profit-driven pawns of the pharmaceutical industry may be an effective approach elsewhere on the Internet, it's not especially useful here. Would you like to rephrase? MastCell  17:32, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Certainly being accused of being a shill for the pharmaceutical industry never gets old... WP:AGF, WP:NPA and all that, but I'll respond to the article specific material on the talk page. Yobol (talk) 20:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Cite PMID

Hola,

Random point, have you ever used {{cite pmid}}? It's great, plug in the PMID after the pipe a la {{cite pmid | 1234567 }} and that's all you need! It creates a template that transcludes the citation information. The only downside is it doesn't auto-fill anymore, so you have to check the refs section to make sure it's actually there; if not, click on the "jump the queue" hyperlink and it'll auto-fill. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 12:49, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I actually have not used that. Is it as good as diberri (pulls in doi, PMC, etc.)? Yobol (talk) 15:59, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Usually, yes. Depends on the individual citation. Obviously you need a PMID so it only works for medical stuff, I think it actually uses the PMID to pull a DOI then uses {{cite doi}} to complete. The information appears to be drawn directly from the pubmed database, so it should work at least as well as Diberri. The only downside is you only see the PMID when you're actually editing and if you have a URL that's not a PMC you have to add it manually. Try it, I think you'll love it. I find it easier than DB because it never goes down and you don't have to navigate three windows to get the final result. WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 19:05, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Hrm, I'll probably give it a shot. It would be nice not having multiple windows open just to get a ref down. Thanks! Yobol (talk) 19:34, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Couple of issues with it: First, the bot isn't entirely perfect, and you have to watch the output to make sure it gets the page numbers and the capitalization right. Second, I'm super paranoid and don't really want to have 18,000 templates on my watchlist. If it gets vandalized, you won't know about it until you actually stumble upon the page where citation template is transcluded. NW (Talk) 20:48, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The likelihood of that happening is pretty low in my estimation, that's a pretty damned sophisticated vandal; I had a thought that all the pages be semi- or fully-protected once created but it wasn't implemented. The convenience is pretty hard to beat... WLU (t) (c) Misplaced Pages's rules:/_complex 22:43, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	You have been doing a great job dealing with spam etc. Keep up the good work. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:14, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Just trying to do my part. :) Yobol (talk) 19:34, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Reminder

Misplaced Pages:Sarcasm is really helpful: Be direct and try to isolate the behavioral from the talk pages. Behavioral advisories best belong in user talk, at first. Behavioral issues should only be brought into the article discussion if they aren't heeded and are negatively impacting discussion.Novangelis (talk) 15:19, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

You are of course correct. I have struck the comment, and will try to avoid this in the future. Yobol (talk) 16:25, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Hopefully the tenor of the discussion will be productive, now.Novangelis (talk) 16:33, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Differential Diagnosis

Hi, dear! Why should i incorporate Differential Diagnosis into Diagnosis? I'm a doctor, and during my medical education i always have seen in specialised literature Differential Diagnosis as a separate chapter of each nosology unit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ljaic (talk • contribs) 19:39, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

thank you, but nevertheless in such articles as Costochondritis, Crystal_arthropathies Differential Diagnosis is separated, and from medical point of view i think it's 100% right!) i of course respect wiki's rules, but wikipedia is online encyclopedia, and its articles should be academic..) may be i can ask advice of any wiki's administator with medical education? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ljaic (talk • contribs) 20:02, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

There are a few administrators on the talk page of the medicine Wikiproject. Feel free to ask them. Yobol (talk) 20:06, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Admins, by the way, have no special authority on content. Nor am I a physician. But fwiw, and even though I am an admin, it is certainly true that differential diagnosis is a distinct section of any discussion of any disease in the professional literature. DGG ( talk ) 19:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC) .

I'm just following WP:MEDMOS, which states differential diagnosis discussion goes under the section of diagnosis. I'm not sure why we're having this discussion here, rather than on a more appropriate page such as WT:MED or WT:MEDMOS. Yobol (talk) 02:06, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ralph W. Moss (writer)

You might want to see what I found in Google News Archive. DGG ( talk ) 19:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, will respond in detail when I get a chance. Yobol (talk) 01:52, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

RfC on Astrology

Because you have participated in a related RfC on this article, or have recently contributed to it, you are hereby informed that your input would be highly appreciated on the new RfC here: ]. Thank you! Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 16:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

thermisoal and the 1930 tests results and all 22 test subjects died

Quote, "Lilly tested Thimerosal in 1930, giving it to 22 terminal meningitis patients; within weeks, all 22 patients died." http://www.newsinferno.com/legal-news/eli-lilly-knew-of-thimerosal-dangers-for-decades/3298 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.54.128.212 (talk) 04:23, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

A couple of points: 1) That is not a reliable source 2) even if it were reliable, there have been plenty of studies about the safety of thiomersal since which have found it safe for use in vaccines and certainly no evidence in doses used it is a neurotoxin. Yobol (talk) 04:28, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

As Yobol notes, the source is dubious. Even if it were not, I suspect that you (and the authors of the article) are missing the significance of what the report seems to be saying. (I suspect that the article's authors are deliberately missing the point, in fact.) If we assume, for the sake of argument, that the basic facts reported are correct, then the study involved terminal patients. All of them would have died without intervention anyway.

What the study demonstrated was not that thiomersal is a deadly drug whose side effects were ruthlessly concealed (as the author of the article would have you believe). What was shown was that thiomersal was ineffective for the treatment of meningitis—just like every other drug available to pre-antibiotics 1930 medicine. The purpose of such a study wouldn't have been to test the safety of thiomersal, it would have been to test novel interventions to treat otherwise-lethal cases of meningitis. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 04:52, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

The test was not to see if mercury can cure terminal meningitis, the test was to bring the drug to market. Please do some reading on Eli's testing.

Quote, " In its apparent eagerness to promote and market the product, in September, 1930, Eli Lilly secretly sponsored a "human toxicity" study on patients already known to be dying of meningococcal meningitis. Senior partner Andrew Waters stated that, "Lilly then cited this study repeatedly for decades as proof that thimerosal was of low toxicity and harmless to humans. They never revealed to the scientific community or the public the highly questionable nature of the original research." http://www.iaomt.org/testfoundation/thimelililly.htm#Waters%20&%20Kraus --199.60.104.18 (talk) 21:04, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Yet again, the source is not reliable, so it doesn't belong until you find one that is. Secondly, even if it were true (which I do not concede), I don't know why it belongs in an encyclopedia article about the substance. Unless secondary reliable sources note the importance of this, it appears this is just being used to smear the product and Eli Lilly rather than trying to add neutral, verifiable information to the article. Yobol (talk) 21:06, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Note, I have copied this discussion to the article talk page, which is a more appropriate place for this discussion. If you have a further response, please respond there. Yobol (talk) 21:09, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Dengue fever article needs to be a little more balanced. No mention of "alternative medicine" is made.

Hey, I'm new at this and you seem to be a pro. Please see my talk page for hjc906. But how come no mention of alternative medicine is mentioned under this article? I know most other articles try to include this subheading to try to be balanced. But this article does not even mention it, not even to talk bad about it. The herbs micle or Jacobina Spiciegera and boneset or Eupatorium have some therapuetical value, but are never mentioned. Is there any good reason why this section is not included? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hjc906 (talk • contribs) 07:01, 21 November 2011 (UTC) Hjc906 (talk) 07:26, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Notification

Your name has been mentioned in conjunction with Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Ratel. —Novangelis (talk) 11:03, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Water intoxication, hyponatremia, body water, etc

Please see Talk:Water intoxication#Water intoxication, hyponatremia, body water, etc for a collaboration suggestion. Last Lost (talk) 18:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Wow! Awesome job at Ben Stein. You not only cited it but made it sound like a neutral description. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.110.16.198 (talk) 00:36, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

MEDRS??

I've been doing Wiki for awhile, but I have to admit I have no idea why you reverted my recent insertion on the Fluoridation page and then flagged it with the comment need review per MEDRS. I thought the research was pretty straight-forward with obvious-to-read data. I didn't attach any opinion and simply stated a direct statistic off the report. What am I missing? Thanks for the help! - Ckruschke (talk) 18:12, 13 January 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

Per WP:MEDRS, we should be using review articles for making health claims; too often, primary studies are given undue weight in our medical articles, and even more so that you chose only one particular statistic out of that particular primary study to mention. Statistics about the rates of fluorosis is already cited in the safety section to a review article, so any discussion about it needs to be added there, cited to a medical review. Yobol (talk) 18:17, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not a proponent for or against. Considering the only report shown in the section that I made an insertion is Australian (good or bad), I thought that a CDC study and a generic comment on one data point was not something that needed to be peer reviewed. Seems to me that the sentence would be perfectly fine if it was rewritten to say something like "a recent CDC study claims" or something like that, but what do I know. Also after reading WP:MEDRS, it says that medical guidelines or position statements from nationally or internationally recognised expert bodies are ideal sources and I'm pretty sure the CDC fits this description. Also the data point I cited is not about Safety, it's about evidence of dental fluorosis. Not arguing or trying to belabor this, but I guess I'm missing your point. Ckruschke (talk) 18:36, 13 January 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

That isn't a position statement by the CDC, it is a study (primary study) sponsored by the CDC. If you had read the safety section you would know that dental fluorosis is discussed more extensively in the Safety section, and any further discussion belongs there, not in the lead of the evidence section. Your choice of particular statistic, out of all the ones available, including those in the summary of the article is frankly perplexing. Any further discussion of this should be made on the article talk page, rather than here. If you wish to continue, you can copy this thread there so that others can contribute to the discussion. Yobol (talk) 18:43, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I think I'm good. I'm obviously too uninformed to add anything to this page, even in good faith, and am wasting both of our times. I just thought it was interesting that they state that 41% of all 12-15 yr olds show sign off fluorsis. That seemed to jump out at my simple mind even with the +/- 10% error - nothing any more sinister than that. At least I can say I perplexed someone - that's how us engineers like to leave people! Take care - Ckruschke (talk) 19:28, 13 January 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

Sugar

I have reverted the MEDRS claim you used to delete a section of the Sugar page. I believe I understand where your claim came from and have inserted human-based reports of the generalised opinion of this area, with effective medical citations. What I have more difficulty understanding is why you immediately moved to delete a section without a single comment in the talk page, and around a citation that has references clearly showing the human-based position. The text made mention of the links to the issue. The animal-based study was chosen as representative since it attempts to make the best link to the subject page, rather than cross-referring through diabetes mellitus. I have therefore carefully selected the other references to put in as additional citations based on human studies, since I assume this was your objection (there was no issue with the source itself) but without any other notes, it isn't clear. Please leave discussions about more precise reasons that MEDRS leaving those who are adding content, rather than just deleting it, to understand your vague objections. If your objection is not that it is an animal-based study, please make this clear through the discussion page first, or flag it appropriately, so we can adjust it appropriately. You may also want to check the references of the citation to ensure you have properly checked to see if the citation is based solely on an animal study, or, as this study stated, was attempting to deepen the understanding of an accepted dietary issue related to Alzheimer's disease that its references studied using human-based data, which is acceptable usage under Misplaced Pages's rules. You must also understand that if I have misunderstood, then you should supply improved reasoning on the discussion page to help understand this. If your MEDRS claim is supported, then I agree it can be deleted, but deletion without discussion seems a little draconian, and isn't necessarily helping develop the page. I am sure you will take these comments in the positive, constructive way they are intended. Ged Sparrowhawk (talk) 21:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the comment, I have multiple issues with the sources and the content, but do not have the time to go into detail about it now. I will likely make some more changes in the future, and will be sure to make additional comments on the talk page to fully clarify the reasoning of those changes when I get a chance. Thanks. Yobol (talk) 21:46, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

TB & ACHARYA

I would like to see an article (a very early one at that) referencing the "chemical composition" of the TB cell wall, as opposed to articles refencing just its "unusual structure." Also, The Journal of Bacteriology is high quality...and I see numerous articles on Wiki pages dating long before 3-5 years. Let try to come to an agreement and sorry for sounding rude earlier. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RaghuVAcharya (talk • contribs) 21:17, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

I do not discuss article specific material on my talk page. If you have suggestions, please make it to the article talk page so that everyone can respond. Thanks. Yobol (talk) 21:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Sigh

Do you have any ideas about the best way forward here? I guess I'm OK with just reverting and pointing to policy. There's an obvious POV problem but I suspect that's blended with comprehension or competency issues too. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 13:04, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, not sure what to do. Either one editor is hopping IPs to avoid 3RR or there is certainly WP:MEAT going on. Already tried to get it semi-protected, which was denied, but if the IPs still act up, we can certainly try again. I think we're dealing with competency and advocacy here. Yobol (talk) 18:03, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Pheazepam

Materials are in Russian an in Russian version of article said about this therapy. I do not have money to translate the whole articles. Is scientific research, performed by professors of the well-known univercity is not enough? As it was, for example with Naloxone. Phenazepam therapy author is the same as author of naloxone therapy - Yuri Nuller. The source article is on official site of Saint Petersburg State Medical Academy - http://psychiatry.spsma.spb.ru/lib/nuller/depersonalization.htm This therapy quite help me, for example. I am new to wikipedia. You wish to remove to - I did it. But, you deserve a hope for many people, who suffering from depersonalization. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Extraintuition (talk • contribs) 09:06, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

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Optometry

Hey Yobol, the physician term applies to optometrists and it is in the source, search optometry there. Also, treatment of glaucoma is medical therapy so I don't know why you took that out. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shnurek (talk • contribs) 01:50, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

The "definition" is not a general definition by Medicare for all purposes, but for the limited purposes of that section. Nothing I saw suggests it is defined broadly by Medicare all optometrists as physicians, which is what the sentence implies (and certainly the extra commentary about it being a "unique situation" in the United States is just commentary, and not in the source). Yobol (talk) 01:55, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Re: Proper lead for article

Please see the MMR controversy talk page for further discussion - let's get this ironed out. Thanks. EduZenith (talk) 22:45, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Bernie Siegel MD

Why did you revert this? Dr. Bernie Siegel is a Medical Doctor. He holds an MD from Cornell University. Nothing has been done that changes this. Every listing Google comes up with calls him Dr. Bernie Siegel or Bernie Siegel MD. Please reconsider this move. Rosencomet (talk) 15:46, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Already replied to you on article talk page. Please keep article specific discussion there. Yobol (talk) 15:47, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

IP

Any idea what the IP is on about? Acroterion (talk) 02:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

User:KBlott has been wikistalking my and MastCell's edits. He/She believes that I work for MastCell at the NIH (why? - I have no clue), and has evidently been using proxies to revert my edits. Thanks for the assistance with halting this latest episode. Yobol (talk) 16:45, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I eventually figured that out: thanks for looking after the articles, and if nothing else, a number of proxies are blocked and several admins have been following up. Acroterion (talk) 17:05, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

You seem bent on undoing my editing of shiatsu for some personal reason of yours. You don't seem to have given any reasons for it either. I have used EXACTLY the same article (http://cancerhelp.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/treatment/complementary-alternative/therapies/shiatsu) that is given in wikipedia as a source. I just felt that choosing just the part of the article that you personally like, without mentioning the rest, was not impartial at all. Since you are obviously more articulate than me, just add something that reflects "Some people with cancer use shiatsu to help control symptoms and side effects such as poor appetite, sleep problems, pain, and low mood. They say that it helps them to cope better with their cancer and its treatment. After a shiatsu treatment a lot of people say they feel very relaxed and have higher energy levels." Since I don't think you are going todoit I need mediation - formal if possible - between you and me. I believe you are biased and opinionated Shiatsushi (talk) 17:42, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

		The Modest Barnstar
		In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! 66.87.4.17 (talk) 20:18, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Yobol (talk) 20:48, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

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Asperger's syndrome

I fixed the reference; thanks for the heads up Sans culottes 03:20, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Seriously, check the ref:

A disorder of uncertain nosological validity, characterized by the same type of qualitative abnormalities of reciprocal social interaction that typify autism, together with a restricted, stereotyped, repetitive repertoire of interests and activities. It differs from autism primarily in the fact that there is no general delay or retardation in language or in cognitive development. This disorder is often associated with marked clumsiness. There is a strong tendency for the abnormalities to persist into adolescence and adult life. Psychotic episodes occasionally occur in early adult life. —(F84.5)

Sans culottes 03:25, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

By the way, when you sign in next, I'd appreciate if you acknowledge the messages here and the cause of the confusion on the Asperger's Syndrome page. My reverts have caused User:SandyGeorgia to have a fit of hysterics over me being a troll/sock-puppet/terrorist/whatever. Sans culottes 10:20, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Saturated Fat

I will not wait for consensus, as the Misplaced Pages guidelines have been followed completely and fully. I fear that waiting for consensus will let editors give in to bias, rather than looking at this objectively. Objectively, there is a huge controversy regarding saturated fat; look at the table in that section I edit, and you will notice quite a few studies (including the big daddy of all the studies) showed no correlation between saturated fat and heart disease. Please review the sources. It is not a fringe theory if there is valid scientific support. Shicoco (talk) 21:42, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Question

Why are you putting message about edit war in Eczema article on my personal page, but not Doc James? He is the one who first started to revert my edits. If you want to look fair, then at least put such notice for both of us. And why is the PubMed is not reliable? It said on Misplaced Pages:Identifying_reliable_sources_(medicine): "PubMed is an excellent starting point for locating peer reviewed medical sources". I will take it to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests if you keep removing well-sourced information. Innab (talk) 02:48, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Quackwatch

You reverted my link to QW's Cheers and jeers section on the grounds that it was a random collection etc. Instead of starting a reversion war, could you please discuss the matter here so that we can achieve some sort of understanding? I posted those two lines as an indication of what was available, without evaluation. It followed a reference to a far more biased source. JonRichfield (talk) 06:04, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Replied on the article talk page, where discussion of article content belongs. Yobol (talk) 02:43, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

DBaK (talk) 08:20, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Some stroopwafels for you!

Thanks for all your hard work. I'm sure you have enough barnstars already... but I watchlist various articles hoping to catch neutrality problems, and 90% of the time you get to the bad edits before I do. Your efforts are appreciated. bobrayner (talk) 21:23, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks. Getting these responses from clueful editors whose contributions I respect helps balance out the frustration from the POV pushers. Yobol (talk) 14:14, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

The presentation of fringe ideas in our encyclopedia

Even fringe ideas have a right to a fair and intelligent presentation in our encyclopedia. This means that we don't refute them sentence by sentence, or paragraph by paragraph, because that approach is not encyclopedic. It is enough for an encyclopedia to state at the end of the presentation, or perhaps even in the lead of the article, that the ideas, beliefs or concepts are contrary to, or outside of, the current scientific consensus on the subject. A concept by concept refutation is not an encyclopedic approach (and in some cases that I've seen, it's just a POV-pushing attempt to enforce the current scientific consensus, of course having the good intention of not allowing our poor readers to be lead astray). The reason it's not appropriate to refute fringe ideas point by point in our articles is this—it would be like going to hear someone speak, in a public place, about ideas you didn't agree with, and, instead of letting him make his presentation and state his case, you insisted on challenging him at the end of every sentence, or worse, shouting him down, without allowing him to present his case in the best way he was able to. Another analogy would be a jury trial, where, at the end, the defense and the prosecution take turns summarizing their cases—without interruptions from the other side. --Kenatipo 02:47, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Please address article specific material on the talk page of the article, where I have already posted. Yobol (talk) 02:52, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Autism external link - not an appropriate EL

(cur | prev) 08:50, 25 May 2012‎ Yobol(talk | contribs)‎ . . (116,285 bytes) (-153)‎ . . (Undid revision 494239081 by Tyhan (talk)not an appropriate EL) (undo)

Hi there! Have you reviewed the content before saying it's "not appropriate"? Why does learning what Autism looks like through an autistic child's eyes through a video "not appropriate"? Thanks for sharing your thoughts. --Tyhan 01:07, 25 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyhan (talk • contribs)

Per our guideline on external links, specifically #8, which states we should avoid "Direct links to documents that require external applications or plugins (such as Flash or Java) to view the content"; that site requires Flash to view. Also, the facebook link is also not appropriate. Yobol (talk) 01:14, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi there! Thanks for clarifying. Understand the concern. But unfortunately the site was created with Flash as its intended design was to allow users to take different perspective of what an autistic person is seeing from different angles (up/down/left/right sides). If you have seen it you'll know what I am refering to.

Agree with you on the fb link which can be removed. As for the first link, the guideline recommends "should generally avoid" (not 'must avoid') which means exceptions can be made. Especially for this case, the intended message and level of impact cannot be achieved through the use of words alone. What do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyhan (talk • contribs) 01:41, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I have seen the site (your original link was actually spelled wrong), and think it is an interesting website. However, we have guidelines for a reason, and I don't think because I think it is interesting that we should ignore the guidelines we have. What I would suggest is taking this up on the talk page of the Autism article to see what others think. Yobol (talk) 01:45, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Excellent idea! Let's hear from the rest. cheers (: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyhan (talk • contribs) 02:11, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Alkaline diet

Thanks for replacing all that gooble-dee-gook talk page history at Talk Page:Alkaline Diet. I didn't realize this was not supposed to be done as I have seen it done in so many other pages. I tried to clean out complaints that have become redundant as the material no longer exists in the article, or the discussion was not article related. Is it possible to background older posts on an archive page? The length detracts from clarity of current issues. The article page has become completely revamped and looks fairly encyclopedic now except for being a little short and lacking information for readers looking for possibly food groups or supplements that fit the description. Yeah, I am a believer in the diet but, even the promoters cannot completely agree on how or what makes it work . LOL. 99.251.114.120 (talk) 03:11, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Added archiving to talk page. Yobol (talk) 03:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi, would you like to help out with adding to Post-concussion syndrome?

I’m writing to invite you to help me make the Post-concussion syndrome article more accurate and comprehensive. We can start with “Four current problems with our article (May 2012),” or any place else you’d care to start. In my judgment, the article needs some real help. As I stated on the discussion page, I have pretty much decided to request that this article no longer be listed as a good article, although I am willing to wait a couple of days. FriendlyRiverOtter (talk) 21:37, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Replied on the talk page. Yobol (talk) 21:52, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

ANI notice regarding personal attacks against Jakew

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dispute

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "X-ray computed tomography". Thank you. --79.179.224.214 (talk) 15:03, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Your revert

I do not understand your reason for revert on the circumcision article. Could you please explain? Thanks! Crimsoncorvid (talk) 02:57, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Will reply on talk page, where article specific discussion belongs. Yobol (talk) 03:02, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Review of edits

This user may need a review of their edits http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/199.46.198.232 if you have time. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:27, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll look into it. Any particular concerns? Yobol (talk) 22:14, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Unreffed and I see you had issues of copyright in the past. --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:13, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Revert on changes in Starchild Article

Hi Yobol, you said that the site from the owner of the Starchild_skull is not a reliable source, why is that? why it's different from others sites? They have new DNA tests and facts the need to be put in the Misplaced Pages article, is there any agenda here? I'm new to wikipedia, sorry for the lack of technical understand of this, will wait for your reply subkelvin —Preceding undated comment added 17:04, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Please direct article specific questions to the talk page of the article. I will start a new thread there. Yobol (talk) 17:07, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

7-Keto

Hi Yobol,

I received your message re: conflict of interest and I'm totally on board. I'm motivated to produce a neutral, comprehensive article and I welcome assistance. To that end, while I'm not 100% convinced that WebMD's default language is a strong source, I won't contest it. If there's anything else you want to discuss, please don't hesitate to let me know. Thank you again for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wordcouture (talk • contribs) 18:13, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Writer (talk) 19:04, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "X-ray_computed_tomography". Thank you. --Nenpog (talk) 04:13, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Reiki

Hi there, My apologies about the revert on the Reiki article. It was incorrect, and most certainly should not have been made. It was late and I probably shouldn't have been editing anyways, but I completely misread the context of your edit. Again, I apologize and I will make every effort to minimize such mistakes occuring again. Regards, MacMed_stalk 14:45, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Computed Tomography

Not quite sure why you undid my addition about the two books by F. Natterer. I cannot really see anyone disagreeing that these are the two standards on this topic and should be mentioned. Does this give you any comfort: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=500773 ? Check also the German pages in Misplaced Pages on Inverse Problems ("Inverses Problem") that also mentions the first book. Also check Amazon on it. And if you do not think this book is worth mentioning, I would then challenge the relevance of the anecdote on the Beatles (someone claims that someone claims ....). Also what about the whole paragraph starting with "Since the first CT scanner, CT technology has vastly improved. Improvements in speed ...."? What is the relevance of this paragraph? CT would not where it is today without mathematics and the mentioned books are the standard works on this topic. Let me know. Thank you. jaeljojo (talk) 20:18, 06 July 2012 (UTC)

Anaesthetist has a lower intelligence when compared to Orthopaedic Surgeons

This is found from a multicenter study published from a highly regarded journal (British Medical Journal) in Dec 2011. Please respect the evidence even if you may disagree with the findings.

For your information: http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7506 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.17.7.181 (talk) 03:06, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Anesthesia

I don't understand why you think my edit on anesthesia providers is inappropriate. If having a section about CRNA's is appropriate then having a section about OMFS is also appropriate. OMFS provide every level of anesthesia and are highly trained in anesthesia. So why wouldn't they be included in this article? They are clearly providers and should be included in the subject context.

DMD453 (talk) 22:14, 8 July 2012 (UTC)DMD453DMD453 (talk)

Some stroopwafels for you!

Dude, you're an asset to the wiki; that's all. JFW | T@lk 22:58, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, coming from such a great contributor this means a lot. Yobol (talk) 00:40, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Aspertame controversy

Hi Yobol,

please check out my talk page addition to the aspertame controversy. I am fully supportive of providing balanced information backed by good science. My concern is that the info available on wikipedia about aspertame masks the fact that there is actually ongoing scientific investigation in this area. The info we provide should be transparent about this, and not leave the reader with the sense that all the negative claims about aspertame are nutbar factor 6 activist propaganda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Aspartame_controversy#Aspertame_and_Weight_gain.

Leannet3 (talk) 18:33, 9 July 2012 (UTC)leannet3

Already replied there. Please keep article specific questions and comments on the article talk page, where it belongs. Thanks. Yobol (talk) 18:36, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

My reason for coming here was not to discuss aspertame per se. I was curious whether you provided any info about yourself. I confess, my initial assumption was that you worked for the chemical industry. I felt your enforcement of the rules was being done in such a way as to mask the existence of valid scientific uncertainty. Please don't misunderstand me. I fully support the guideline about individual research studies - I have posted inappropriately before and you were absolutely correct to make the changes you did. I also applaude your efforts to fight pseudoscience. However, I believe we also need to find a way to report the simple existence of an ongoing scientific debate. Specific issues may have either a low or high degree of uniformity and agreement within the scientific community. It seems to me that giving readers a sense of this is also important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leannet3 (talk • contribs) 20:14, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

The answer to finding the most neutral way to present a subject is to find high quality secondary sources, such as the ones already cited. If there is a controversy, it will be cited in the reviews. Cherry picking one or two sentences out of a review in order to undermine the conclusion of a review does not appear to me be a neutral way to describe the debate or to build an encyclopedia article. Please direct further specifics about the article to the talk page of the article. Yobol (talk) 20:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Nenpog

You may be interested in this: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Nenpog. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:59, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

For your consideration

Yobol, I'm certain that you do infinitely more good on wikipedia than bad. However, I have to say that my personal experience of your editing approach and our discussion of the past few days has been extremely discouraging. I wish you had treated me as someone to encourage and mentor, rather than as an adversary to shut down at all costs. I believe that you have portrayed elements of WP:MEDRS and other WP policies as more strict than they actually are and in contradiction to the spirit in which they are intended (see WP:LAWYER). You have falsely accused me of cherry-picking and making erroneous conclusions, used bullying language, and despite our reaching some points of consensus on the talk page, you have made all edits yourself. I hope that is not how quality wikipedia editing is supposed to work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leannet3 (talk • contribs) 21:35, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Let me be clear in that I have no intention of "bullying" anyone, I only want to make sure the high quality of Misplaced Pages's articles are maintained. Certainly Misplaced Pages needs good editors and I hope we can collaborate on more articles together as you gain more experience. Unfortunately, I have to be frank in that I see too much poor reading of sources, poor understanding of policy and guidelines, and what appears to be a persistent attempt at pushing an agenda; however, I am hopeful that this is only a mistaken impression on my part based on a limited interaction on one article. If you have a problem with the way I have addressed the dispute, you are welcome to follow Misplaced Pages's dispute resolution process or to go the relevant talk pages or WP:Noticeboards of the guidelines and policies you believe I am mistaken about to ask specific questions. I have neither the time nor the patience to mentor new editors, though places such as the WP:TEAHOUSE exists to answer questions of new editors. I look forward to seeing your contributions to the sugar substitute article. Happy editing. Yobol (talk) 21:50, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I have learned quite a bit about WP policies in the past few days and for that I value our exchanges. If I may leave you with a quote that hints at my agenda, it is that "risk information vacuums are likely to blame for the social amplification of risks." I'm paraphrasing Doug Powell and William Leiss. Cheers. Leannet3 (talk) 19:32, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Induced birth harms you deleted

Instead of deleting all re induced birth from the lead could you please just provide the reference links. It's relevant to the lead because 20% of births are recently induced. You can use the news articles to find references (including the 20% incidence which should be added) them quickly. I don't have access to journals. Here's the short sentence you deleted:

Induced birth before 39 weeks is associated with increased chances of health and developmental problems, and learning difficulties.32cllou (talk) 18:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Here are working links to the news articles: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/birth-37-38-weeks-linked-lower-math-reading/story?id=16683067#.T_lQWfVLFh7

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2167986/At-37-weeks-baby-called-premature.html 32cllou (talk) 19:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Circumcision#Proposed_new_photo_File:Rituelle_Beschneidung.jpg_does_not_improve_this_article_along_Wikipedia_guidelines

Hi Yobol, I am contacting you because you are a member of WP:MEDICINE who has contributed to the article Circumcision in the past. There is an active discussion right now at Talk:Circumcision#Proposed_new_photo_File:Rituelle_Beschneidung.jpg_does_not_improve_this_article_along_Wikipedia_guidelines. An editor has suggested adding a new image of the procedure to the article Circumcision, and there is a discussion about whether this is the best image to use in the article. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks! Zad68 13:52, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Nenpog vs. Guy Macon, Doc James, and Yobol. and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide.

Thanks,

1. "Birth at 37 or 38 Weeks Linked to Lower Math, Reading Skills: Study - ABC News". Retrieved 2012-07-08.
2. "At 37 weeks, 'a baby should still be called premature' | Mail Online". Retrieved 2012-07-08.