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:: As a general clue as to dates, if your bottle has the characters "國營" at the start of the Chinese text near where it says "Peking Brewery", then it definitely dates from the 1950s or after, since those characters mean "state-run", and nationalisation did not happen until the 1950s. If it says "国营", then it dates from after the 1960s, because these are simplified characters and the simplification of Chinese was not rolled out until the mid-1960s.
:: As a general clue as to dates, if your bottle has the characters "國營" at the start of the Chinese text near where it says "Peking Brewery", then it definitely dates from the 1950s or after, since those characters mean "state-run", and nationalisation did not happen until the 1950s. If it says "国营", then it dates from after the 1960s, because these are simplified characters and the simplification of Chinese was not rolled out until the mid-1960s.
:: Whether it says "Peking" or "Beijing" is actually not a very good indicator. Many older brands in China still retain the old-style spelling even today - "Chung Hwa" cigarettes, for example, or "Peking" and "Tsinghua" universities, even "Tsingtao" beer. --] (]) 10:48, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
:: Whether it says "Peking" or "Beijing" is actually not a very good indicator. Many older brands in China still retain the old-style spelling even today - "Chung Hwa" cigarettes, for example, or "Peking" and "Tsinghua" universities, even "Tsingtao" beer. --] (]) 10:48, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
==Facebook and probability==
How can girls be comfortable posting her photos in bikini on ] knowing that, stadistically speaking, there is at least ''someone'' who is going to masturbate a it?--] (]) 12:22, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
:The chances are about 100% anyway, no matter what she was wearing. ] (]) 12:25, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
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I have received the Navy and Marine Corps Medal and the Navy Commendation Medal. How do I get these posted on this web site? I can send these documents if I have a email address or address. You can also contact me on this site mlcatcdog10 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mlcatcdog10 (talk • contribs) 00:48, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
You added a name here to the Navy and Marine Corps Medal article. Please note, in order to add names to that list, the subject should have an article here first and then their name can be added. But to have an article here, the person must first be notable enough for an article. We don't simply list every recipient of those medals. If we did, that list would be far longer than the 19 or so names that are currently listed. Dismas|01:50, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
You need to be more specific. Largest total number of colleges and universities ? (If so, how would you count a single institution which has several "colleges", as in a college of law, college of medicine, etc.) Largest total enrollment ? Largest total enrollment as a percentage of total population ? And by "city", do you include colleges and universities in the suburbs ? StuRat (talk) 07:19, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
This table has data on a per-state basis. California has 454 "degree granting institutions", making them the most, while Alaska has only 7, making them the least. This is for the 2010-2011 school year. This website hosted the above table. They may have more information availible, including what the OP is looking for, on a per-city basis. Cities such as Boston, Philadelphia, New York, and Chicago have a lot of universities within their borders and/or metro area; so it may be one of those four. Not every large city has a lot of colleges (Houston, for example, doesn't have as many as the above, despite having a comparable population). --Jayron3213:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
New York City has between 88 and 130, depending on how you count institutions with multiple campuses. I doubt anything else beats that, especially because if you take into account the greater metro area, it is going to be even more. (The Philly metro area has 69; the Boston metro area has a "mere" 52. Chicago seems like a lot less.) --Mr.98 (talk) 14:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Deleting contact details from Misplaced Pages
Last year, just before Misplaced Pages's tenth birthday celebrations, I gave my contact details in the site http://ten.wikipedia.org/Chennai . The site's now closed to editing, however, my contact details are still displayed, and there are other websites now using that page as a mailing list as sorts, which has led to me getting calls from confused people who think I'm some sort of contact for the various websites displaying the mailing list... How do I remove my name and number from that page? Any ideas? Thanks in advance. LaAlquimista08:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
You can't. In most number systems (eg, those where 1+1 does not equal 0), 2 is defined as what you get if you add 1+1. It's axiomatic, and I'm not sure what other sort of axiom you'd expect to derive it from. (For what's worth, one of the axioms of Peano arithmetic is that every number x has a successor sx. I guess you could go about proving that 1+1=s1.) AlexTiefling (talk) 09:55, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Huh indeed. Alfred North Whitehead and Bertrand Russell set out to do just that in Principia Mathematica. The full text is available from the University of Michigan here, and the relevant section dealing with the proof you're looking for is on page 378. If you can understand a single word of it, you are a better man than I am, Gunga Din. You might also like to take a look at this blog, which discusses the proof and why it might not, in fact, be a complete proof. Again, I don't profess to fully understand the reasoning! - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with the notation, but I'm pretty sure that proposition is "given two sets of cardinality 1, their intersection is empty iff their union has cardinality 2." Russell and Whitehead were more interested in sets than in numbers. -- BenRG (talk) 00:27, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
OK, here's my attempt at a proof using the Peano axioms:
1. Let's start by defining terms: 1 is represented as S(0), and 2 as S(S(0)).(Peano axioms 1, 6, and 7)
2. Under the second part of the definition of Peano addition, a + S(b) = s(a+b). So 1+1 can be represented as S(0)+S(0), which is equal to S(S(0)+0).
3. Under the first part of the definition of Peano addition, a+0=a. So S(0)+0 = S(0). We susbtitute that into the outer brackets at the end of the previous step...
I have quite often asked a similar question - prove 2+2=4. I find that only small kids around 5 years old are really capable of proving this. Older people treat it like an axiom. But AlexTiefling's proof will do for me! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:10, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
I think it's fair to say that the 'axiomatic' answer and the proof given show different things about the statement "1+1=2". To say it's axiomatic is to say that the symbol '2' has no intrinsic property of being '1+1', and that we normally do arithmetic with sets of more than two elements. To prove it is to show that the integer ordered following unity is the same as unity added to unity.
You might enjoy theorem 2p2e4 at Metamath. Note that Metamath defines 2 = (1 + 1), though, as AlexTiefling said, Peano arithmetic doesn't.
These "trivial" questions are tricky only because a person asking such a question presumably isn't interested in the answer "it's trivial"—which would be a valid justification for assuming 1+1=2 in any other situation. It's the same reason "why is the sky blue?" is easier than "why is blue blue?". -- BenRG (talk) 00:27, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm interested in the level of employment and average earnings of recent graduates in the UK. The exact question I'd like to answer is "for X degree course or Y university department, what percentage of graduates earn a basic salary (before any bonuses or perks) of at least £21000 two years after graduation?". Trouble is, I'm not a statistician and really don't know where to start. Does the available data even support answering something that specific, or is it all muddled together (and effectively meaningless)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.25.35 (talk) 10:30, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
There's no data for two years after graduation but there's data for six months after graduation, from the Destinations of Leavers from Higher Education survey. The level of employment, at six months, is readily available now on www.unistats.direct.gov.uk. The salary at six months isn't available in that format at all at the moment, but will be in the Key Information Set from September, for comparison in the same way that you see on unistats. A special government website is being set up to carry the information, and it is intended to be very visible. The performance indicators for universities were published today, and you can find them by clicking on links at www.hesa.ac.uk. Some surveys of employment after two years have been conducted, but not regularly and not for all universities. You would track them down by searching in Google Scholar. Finally, the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings has data on the earnings levels in the workforce as a whole, and the Quarterly Labour Force Survey asks about qualification levels and earnings, but handling the analysis is an expert task. Itsmejudith (talk) 17:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
So they can let people know they don't agree, presumably. The easiest way to do so is to state it explicitly, remove the tag, or do both. That said, I think anyone closing a question, whether by hatting it or marking it Done/Resolved, should sign their name, to take credit or blame for it. StuRat (talk) 23:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
That was exactly my point. It could happen that someone comes along and says: hey, these two worked as producers together in film such and such. Ochson (talk) 23:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Limit on stay of Americans who renounce citizenship
The Terry Gilliam article states, "As a result of renouncing his citizenship, Gilliam is only permitted to spend 30 days per year in the United States, fewer than ordinary British citizens."
Does America really limit the amount of time a person can stay on holiday there? He really can't stay with his American family for more than a month a year?
A lot of countries, maybe most countries even, limit the amount of time you can stay on holidays. Otherwise, what would stop people just coming for a holiday and never leaving? The relavant article might be Visa. More specifically, the Entry and duration period section. Vespine (talk) 23:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
I suspect that most Western countries (and indeed most countries, full stop) limit the amount of time that an individual can remain as a visitor on vacation without requiring extensive paperwork. Citizens of the UK can generally visit the U.S. for up to 90 days without a visa: . (In the other direction, U.S. citizens may visit the UK for up to six months without a visa: .)
I can't comment on whether or not the U.S. really has the punitive policy described towards their former citizens; it sounds spiteful, but I admit that it also sounds plausible. (The source linked from our article only quotes Gilliam, so we don't have what I would call a reliable source for immigration policy.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Not a reliable source, but as it boils down to taxation, compelling: this blog states (within the context of a discussion of renouncing citizenship, "a change of law in 2008 that means non-U.S. citizen, nonresidents can now annually visit the U.S. for 120 or more days without becoming taxed as U.S. residents (under the pre-2008 rules, visits to the U.S. for more than 30 days during any of the 10 years following expatriation caused the individual to be treated as a U.S. resident for that year)." --Tagishsimon(talk)02:22, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Accountants confirm, in an article about Taxation and Renouncing Citizenship: "The expatriate could not be present in the U.S. for 30 days in any one year, or one would be treated for tax purposes as a citizen and taxed on all worldwide income." --Tagishsimon(talk)02:26, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
This seems like a splendid invention, why didn't it get more commercial? (ignoring that major disaster in the US, what else?). Ochson (talk) 23:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Once you take the hydrogen out, you're still left with the problems that such a light-weight object easily gets blown around in the wind, so you can only use them on calm days. The low passenger/cargo capacity combined with the need for immense hangars also work against them. Then, of course, they are slow, so not good if you want to get somewhere in a timely manner (although slow transport does have it's place, as on cruise ships). StuRat (talk) 23:57, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Nearly all the most famous dirigibles eventually crashed, with the notable exception of the Graf Zeppelin, which had a perfect safety record. ←Baseball Bugscarrots→ 03:20, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
To Write Love On Her Arms,Love or A Publicity Stunt?
Why this organization... have Business Behavior and Publicity Stunt? Why this organization... have commercial exploitation? Love or just like a singer - Lady Gaga? What is real...
I suggest you write your question in your native language, and somebody will translate it into proper English for you. StuRat (talk) 02:29, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
To Write Love On Her Arms,Love or A Publicity Stunt? 到底它是爱还是只是在炒作呢？非盈利性组织为什么会有商业活动和炒作行为呢？这些天读了一些关于这个组织的报道，尝试去了解这个组织，为什么它给人的感觉就像娱乐圈一样呢？它不是一个非盈利性组织吗？什么才是真实的? 我不知道答案，有谁知道呢？
I tried google translate on the above. I got this : "In the end it is love or just speculation? Non-profit organization why there is commercial activity and speculation behavior? Read some reports on the organization of these days, try to understand this organization, why it feels like entertainment? It is not a non-profit organization? What is real? I do not know the answer, who knows?" Any native speakers care to give a better translation? Because it looks like gibberish still. I also added a title to this thread. --Jayron3203:12, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
This is obviously User:Ochson in another guise, see his removal of his autosignature in the edit history. μηδείς (talk) 04:02, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Family genes?
Misplaced Pages has an entire article on the Huxley family, which produced numerous individuals who excelled in different fields. Is this streak of producing unusually intelligent, intellectual human beings merely due to good genes that run in the family, or are there other factors too? If it's genes, why don't the families of other eminent people produce more eminent people later on? Does upbringing play a part in all this too? As far as I've seen, most descendants of popular icons, celebrities, and other famous people simply bask in the former glory of their ancestors, and fail to live up to others' expectations... LaAlquimista08:52, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Education also plays its part, alongside upbringing, culture. Why do we expect so much of "celebrities" children? Especially those who have become celebrities through media, or are "famous for being famous"? Why should their offspring be any different to anyone else's? Surely that's a bigger question to answer than why excellence should run in families? --TammyMoet (talk) 09:02, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, in addition to genes and environment in common, certain other advantages might also be passed down, such as money and business contacts, giving them a head start in their chosen field. Then some of it is that the children really don't do anything that would be noteworthy, but we find it noteworthy solely because they are from a famous family (or in the case of the Kennedy family, most of the noteworthy things they do these days seem to be bad things). Also consider that careers sometimes run in families, but some careers, like politics, will make the entire family famous, while other careers, like farming, won't. StuRat (talk) 10:20, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I have a view that something that gets passed on in successful families is the belief that you can be successful, because you have seen it in so many other relatives. HiLo48 (talk) 11:55, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
What does this mean? I have been translating in the law field, and specifically for contracts and agreements, for years, but it has only just occurred to me that I have no idea what this means. Just exactly what is not excluded? Does it just mean 'full rights', as in 'all inclusive'? KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 12:33, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
If I'm licensing something, for instance a patent, then if I (the licenser) give someone (the licensee) exclusive rights, that means they (licensee) are the only person/organisation who can use it (either worldwide or within a specified territory), but if I give them non-exclusive rights, then I can sell the rights to another person, and another, and all of them can use the patent in the same territory. Exclusive rights are more valuable for the licensee, because if you buy them you know you're not going to have any competition. For the licenser, selling rights non-exclusively would allow you to sell them multiple times or use the licensed item yourself, though each sale may get less money. The same principle is involved if you're licensing copyright material, giving distribution rights, etc (exclusive=one person holds them, non-exclusive=many can hold them). Sources. This is not legal advice, consult a lawyer before entering into any agreement, etc. --Colapeninsula (talk) 12:52, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Non-exclusive means the agreement or contract does not exclude similar agreements with other parties. So a non-exclusive agreement means "we may enter into a similar agreement with another party at the same time as this agreement"; an exclusive agreement means "we will not enter into a similar agreement with another party at the same time as this agreement". In my house I have a non-exclusive right to watch the television, but an exclusive right to eat the Marmite (because no-one else likes it). Gandalf61 (talk) 13:00, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I see. Thanks, I understand it now. So, it basically means, "I am going to let you use this, but let other people use it as well." Cheers. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 13:21, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
More precisely, "reserve the eight to let other people use it as well". Just because I sell you a non-exclusive license does not mean I have to sell licenses to others. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:23, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
And just to add one more detail, many compulsory contracts contain this clause to make it sound not so bad. So if I'm the government and I fund your research, I usually can say, "contingent of me giving you funding is the fact that you will let me purchase the right to use this in the future from you, but I won't demand a monopoly over it." Similarly if I'm Instagram or whatever I will usually have in my terms of use, "you give me the right to use this photo, but I'm not claiming that I'm the only person who can use this photo." Those are both instances of what non-exclusive rights mean. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
There are some specific reasons for that in some contexts, specifically copyright (although whether or not it's necessary is questionable). For instance, you cannot transfer a copyright or grant an exclusive right in a copyright without it being in writing. There are other instances where exclusive licenses are treated differently than non-exclusive licenses. Shadowjams (talk) 21:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Is really expensive whisky ever drunk?
During my holiday, I saw a bottle of Glenfiddich 1955 whisky on sale in the Viking Gabriella's tax-free shop for €6100, and later learned that it's only about one-sixteenth of what the world's most expensive whisky costs. With one bottle costing as much as a small apartment, and each glass poured from it costing about as much as a Canon EOS 5D Mark II professional DSLR camera, who would ever dare drink such whisky? It would surely mean their investment became worthless. But then, if the whisky isn't drunk, what good is it then? It might as well be coloured water and its owner would never know. JIP | Talk19:21, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
^^This is correct. You consume things that expensive to show the world that you are rich enough to consume things that expensive. Find that ethically problematic, in a world where people can't afford basic needs? Well, welcome to the club. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:11, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I remember an episode of MASH were Col. Potter was sent a bottle from a dead buddy. Potter was the last of a group from WWI. They all agreed that the last would drink it with friends, so the cast at the time did.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Just today there was a story in the Evening Standard about a group making 5050 GBP cocktails out of a 50,000 GBP bottle of cognac was dropped by one of the customers. Buddy431 (talk) 20:58, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Best news magazine relative to its fame and the cost?
Which news magazine would you say that this could be? I'm trying to determine which news magazine is the best one to subscribe to using these factors. For the record, I think that TIME Magazine is a very good contender for the answer to this question. Thank you. Futurist110 (talk) 19:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
What country are you in? What languages do you read/are you learning? Are you interested in any particular fields, e.g. international relations, sociology, culture, economics, science? Itsmejudith (talk) 20:05, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
(ec) That would be the mimeographed newsletter my friend Sam printed when we were in elementary school. It had no fame and no cost, so in relative terms its quality was infinite. Looie496 (talk) 20:06, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I live in the United States of America and I am primarily interested in news, politics, current events, and history. I want all of my articles to be in English, since this is the language that I am the best at and the most used to (I also speak Russian). National Geographic is also pretty good, but I'm not sure if it talks about the news as much as Time Magazine does. Also, I just want to clarify--I want to find a magazine that is relatively cheap and very famous that talks a lot about news and current events. Also, it has to have an archive that is free and completely available to subscribers (which Time Magazine does have). Futurist110 (talk) 20:17, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
In regards to getting news from the net/web or TV, that's true, but I want to always have access to news articles from long ago, and most of those right now are not free. Futurist110 (talk) 20:20, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much. However, BBC's archives only go back to 1997 or so. I looked at the list of online newspaper archives. Thank you very much for that. How would you compare TIme Magazine to The Atlantic Monthly? Thank you. Futurist110 (talk) 00:12, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I usually check RealClearPolitics and its Science section first thing in the morning with coffee, and often find I am led to an article at The Atlantic. They write balanced and very in-depth articles. I have been led to read perhaps half a dozen things at Time in the last few years and they have inevitably been puff and opinion on the level of USA Today. μηδείς (talk) 03:04, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I've always been impressed by The Economist -- it has its particular point of view, of course, but no publication will escape that charge. It will provide an international perspective (though with a lot of news about American events and public figures), and according to our article, its "primary focus is world news, politics and business, but it also runs regular sections on science and technology as well as books and the arts," so that's a nice broad coverage. And according to their website, subscribers have full access to their historical archive which stretches back to the first half of the 19th Century, a scope few periodicals can claim. There are plenty of good choices here, but given your criteria, if I was picking for myself, I think this is my choice. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 05:04, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
For the record, I want a news magazine that is very cheap per issue, and while The Economist is a very good magazine, it is WAY too expensive for me. RealClearPolitics is pretty good, but it was only founded in 2000, whereas Time Magazine was founded in 1923. The Atlantic is very good and relatively cheap, but the problem is that it only publishes once a month, whereas I prefer weekly news magazines. To be honest, I actually like Time Magazine's news stories and their style of reporting. I also like their specials, such as Person of the Year, their Top 100 lists, and their long cover stories. Futurist110 (talk) 07:24, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
FAIR'sExtra will tell you what the mainstream news is getting wrong, so if you just pay attention to mainstream sources and supplement with FAIR, you get far more accuracy than trying to find the One True Source. 75.166.200.250 (talk) 18:21, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, but I also want to be able to look at good news articles from 50+ years ago. I have a question--is there an easy way to search the BBC website online news archives or not? Futurist110 (talk) 08:19, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like a subscription to Time works out to about $0.53 per issue, and the Atlantic about $2.50 per issue. The New Yorker falls between, at about $1.50 per issue and is basically weekly (47 issues per year). Looks like for subscribers they have a back issue archive to 1925. Pfly (talk) 08:38, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Is there any logical fallacy which states that a position is invalid just because it is offensive to someone? This certainly sounds like a particular logical fallacy, but I can't find the name for this fallacy (if such a fallacy exists). Thank you. Futurist110 (talk) 20:19, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Would wisdom of repugnance work for this scenario? :
Individual 1: I support prenatal personhood.
Individual 2: Your position is offensive to women. Therefore it is less valid than another unoffensive position.
Depending on the context, I wonder if appeal to pity (or "argumentum ad misericordiam") would sometimes apply, if the idea is that you should feel bad about offending someone? Or, if the implication is that most people find X offensive, it might be argumentum ad populum (or "appeal to the people"). I personally doubt there's a specific "offensiveness" fallacy -- it seems likelier to me that, depending on the specific situation and the way in which the claim "that's offensive" is intended to work, it falls under one of several possibilities. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 05:10, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Writing a message in code that doesn't look like its in code
Hi, my problem with most codes is that the wrong eyes can immediately see that a message is in code. If someone found a piece of paper with "YJOD OD OM VPFR. VSM UPI FRVO{JRT OY?" written on it, it's immediately obvious that they're looking at a code, even if they can't decipher it.
I'm designing a murder mystery for an upcoming party, and I want them to find a poem or something that is actually a coded message. But I'd like it to also look like a poem at first glance. What are some code styles that I could try? 68.111.171.31 (talk) 22:22, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
First letter of every word spells out a clue or the name of the murderer? Or that of a person framed for the murder? Dismas|22:24, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Problem is the message I'm hiding is pretty long in its own right. I'd like if the poem and the hidden message be as close to 1:1 in length as possible. 68.111.171.31 (talk) 22:27, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
(ec)The general subject domain to do with hiding messages (often exactly the problem you have, where one wants to conceal the existence of an encrypted message, to avoid rubber hose cryptography) is steganography. But most steganograpy, whether done with a machine like a computer or a manual system like a cardan grille usually relies on there being a large ratio between the overt material ("covertext") and the hidden stuff. That's necessary because any decent cryptosystem produces as its ciphertext a stream of very-random-looking data - and the covertext (being an English language text, or a picture of a butterfly) isn't very random. The only exception I can think of, for a manual system, is an environment where you'd expect a random covertext. So think about what circumstances someone might, in the real (computer-less) world, be walking around with a bunch of random letters (or digits, or other symbols) which would have an innocuous explanation (but which, if the correct cryptographic key was known, could be decrypted to a secret message). Off the top of my head I can think of:
Bingo or lottery numbers.
Telephone numbers in an address book.
A newspaper column discussing a game which has a randomised initial element, like a bridge or poker deal. A random deal should be enough (but subsequent play will either corrupt the message or would produce a weird state that a decent bridge-player would spot as phoney)
Some kind of puzzle where the initial condition is complicated and looks arbitrary, like a late-game chess puzzle, a word-search, or a sudoku (the steganography article talks about hiding data in sudokus). These require extra care, as someone reasonably familiar with chess can spot the difference between an endgame that would result from real play and one generated by randomly positioning a few pieces.
Some nonsense text like an alien conlang or Lewis Carroll-like pig latin scheme.
Having both cryptography and steganography may be smart if you were trying to avoid the actual secret police of an oppressive country, but may produce a problem that requires too much of a grind to be fun or tractable in a light-hearted party setting. Any system that's going to be solved in that time is going to have to be very simple. So perhaps set your murder mystery in a grimy modern housing project (not the hackneyed Edwardian stately home it always is) and buy the decedent actual lottery tickets where the numbers picked are your message (assuming you live in a jurisdiction where one can pick lottery numbers on a kiosk in a shop). Given that simply figuring out it is a code is going to be hard enough, I don't think you can expect people to solve a code more complicated than the trivial caesar cipher a=1, b=2, etc. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk22:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I remember a series of books I read as a child where a gang of children wrote secret letters. The key to deciphering them was the stamps on the envelope. Each denomination had a different meaning, but the basic method was that you skipped words. You might just read every third word, for instance. One denomination meant you read the remaining words backwards. It's not 1:1 (you'll struggle to achieve that in a remotely realistic way), but if you don't skip too many words then it's better than taking one letter from each word or something. It's not easy to come up with a letter than seems plausible (you may need to re-word the message to make it fit better), but it should meet your needs. --Tango (talk) 02:20, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Riddles might be more fun that code-breaking, depending on your audience. I'd only expect "geeks" to enjoy code-breaking. Riddles can be concealed within poems. You could even tailor it to your audience, so, say, if you have a librarian, there could be a Dewey Decimal System code, and from that they would get a subject. Different parts of the riddle could be tailored to different people, so they all have to work together to solve it. StuRat (talk) 03:21, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
The problem with this really is that there's all sorts of options that could be suggested as answers to the problem, but that would fall outside of answering rules (as it would pertain to advice). Seeing that we're giving suggestions, though, here's one that could keep to the original flavour of the problem: take the words in the message, and scramble them into an entirely different order. To make this work, change some of the words into rhyming words. From there, all you will have to do is to hide the list of numbers and the list of rhymed words in the poem. The numbers could be hidden as some math-like scribblings (in order) or as numbers inserted throughout the document(with a few errant or strange ones to tip people off), and the changed letters as a quote with similar swappings in order. Simplify or complexify bits of this for the audience, if that works better for time, and enjoy. Sazea (talk) 04:46, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I moved Sazea's response here from a question on fried chicken, since, presumably, this is where it belongs. StuRat (talk) 05:04, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
This may be a ridiculous suggestion, but one semi-simple solution that occurred to me was to have a half-completed crossword puzzle. At first it appears to be something left behind absent-mindedly -- or maybe it's on the same page of the newspaper as a story that at first appears to be the important item. But eventually it's apparent that the words not yet filled in are the message -- then it's just solving the crossword clues (and maybe working out what order the words need to go in? that feels tougher, unless it works top-down and left-right, or something like it). I agree with the others above about the difficulty of doing what you want to. If you wanted this to be ridiculously difficult, there would be no problem generating a coded message that reads as a poem -- just use a Vigenere cipher and a key of gibberish, and you can produce any ciphertext you want from whatever your plaintext is. But it would be beyond your mystery party's abilities to solve unless this is a hazing for new agents at the NSA. Finlay's right on about that point, which is why trying a steganographic method (like my suggested crossword puzzle) seems the best course to me. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 05:19, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
You could write your poem (or use an existing poem even) and use it only as a key (it has no actual message content, but it could contain hints on how to use it) by writing the secret message to the same length, then assign all the letters of the key and the message corresponding numbers, and linearly combine each of their numbers (as their sums or with a more complex algorithm) to produce a numeric ciphertext. Then, anonymously have this meaningless ciphertext put in "plain view" in a public or accessible place, such as scrawled in library book, on a blog or perhaps here somewhere on the this huge wiki. Then, the sleuth(s) or recipient will need to know that your innocuous poem is a key, plus either learn or know where on Earth to find the message's ciphertext, and also must either know, learn about or figure out the algorithm used to combine them. You could make its solution even more difficult and interesting by requiring the use of more than one key too. Casual sleuths will likely need hints... such that the poem is only a key, of course. Modocc (talk) 08:04, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
The traditional way of doing this is to avoid the use of ciphers and instead to use code. Your participants will gradually become aware that the exact words and phrases are likely code for other, more meaningful, terms. You can make these as easy or as hard as you want. John M Baker (talk) 16:00, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
How does one duplicate lavatory smells in order to track a problem with the pipes? Obviously it does not need to be an exact duplicate; any smell that I can flush would do. Kittybrewster ☎00:05, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Perfumed soap, cooking extracts? Your drain vent may have a bird nest in it as well. A small black pipe up on the roof.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:33, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
UKian toilet flue pipes are perhaps of larger bore than those in Edmonton; and oft-times gray. I'd be interested to know more of the currently observed symptoms, and a sketch of the general plumbing environment, in order to appreciate why smell-based detection is being sought by KB. --Tagishsimon(talk)
I'm not clear on why you could detect the smell from a leak, but not the wetness. I'd expect wetness to be far easier to spot. StuRat (talk) 08:01, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
As a veteran of several stink hunts when finishing up building projects, the problem is usually a loose joint in a vent pipe that allows sewer gas to escape. They can be remarkably difficult to track down, and the peppermint oil trick can help. Plain leaks are usually easy to spot (unless they're under a slab), but venting problems can be hard to diagnose, and it's often something that has either worked loose, was never fully connected to begin with, has a loose or missing clean-out plug, or is just plain incomplete. Since the soil stack isn't under pressure, they can leak air (pushed out by the flush), but not necessarily water (which is a momentary event, and which doesn't go around corners as easily as air). An obstruction in the venting can cause a flush to push air through a trap's water seal, or a dry trap can allow gas a direct path (and a dry trap can be caused by a bad venting system). Acroterion(talk)12:30, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Why are fried chicken TV dinners becoming so hard to find?
I have noticed that some grocery chains have stopped carrying fried chicken TV dinners. Even some that continue to carry other TV dinners. It has been my personal observation that fried chicken is (at least) one of the most popular types of TV dinners. Why would grocery chains that carry TV dinners stop carrying the fried chicken dinners? Aldi is one such grocery chain. Does this have anything at all to do with the "healthy eating" movement that the United States government has been pushing? If it's not that, then I'm at a loss as to what's going on here. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you. InforManiac (talk) 00:19, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
It may be that many are selling hot roasted chicken to compete with other ready to eat without heating places like fast food etc. If someone wants chicken then they have to buy the ready to go at higher profit bird. The chains just pull the others off the freezer shelf. I live in Edmonton and we are at the end of the supply line. There are many things we can't get here. The shelf space just stays empty until Toronto stops pigging out on all the good stuff. This may be the same in your area.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:30, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Aldi has confirmed to me in the past that the chain does not sell any fried chicken TV dinners. They provided me with no reasons. InforManiac (talk) 00:46, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
They may just be a low profit item or they couldn't get a steady supply. They can't carry everything so they decided not to carry them. If you find another store that has them they may seem like too high a price or low stocks. You could try a frozen food wholesaler or distributor. They may know where to get them. If you have a big freezer they may sell you a case at a time cheaper than the store.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:57, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Keep in mind Aldi is a discount store with a very meager selection. I find the local Bottom Dollar has a better selection (although the only thing I get in the frozen dinner aisle are the Mrs. T's mini-pierogies, since I amlomst always cook from scratch.) Walmart is cheap and often has a better selection as well. μηδείς (talk) 03:01, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Walmart usually has the Hungry Man fried chicken TV dinners, but from what I was told, they didn't have any today. I wasn't there to personally confirm it, but the people who were picking it up for me both said that they couldn't find any. InforManiac (talk) 04:54, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I believe Aldi does sell frozen fried chicken alone, in maybe a 2 pound box, so you can always clog your arteries that way. (I have a relevant personal experience: My Dad was dying of heart disease, and I was doing his grocery shopping for him. One thing he always asked for was fried chicken, but I outright refused to get him that. Sort of reminds you of the smoker continuing to smoke through his tracheotomy hole, doesn't it ? The last thing he ever ate at a restaurant was a Chili's Bloomin' Onion.) StuRat (talk) 03:11, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry to hear about your Dad, because that's a real shame, but I love my fried chicken TV dinners. I may end up taking your advice and buy a box or two of the fried chicken because that would definitely be better than nothing. InforManiac (talk) 04:54, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
If you can't find fried chicken TV dinners anymore you can still go to KFC and get some fried chicken. Do you have some KFCs near you? Futurist110 (talk) 07:44, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm sure they do, but going out to get food is a lot more work than just nuking it, especially if you need to get dressed first. StuRat (talk) 07:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Um below you recommend the OP buy a lot of chicken and freeze it but then here you don't consider this possibility? Nil Einne (talk) 11:46, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
The act of freezing it means you can then prepare it, whenever wanted, without leaving home. You could do that with fried chicken you buy at KFC, too, but then you might as well buy it already frozen, which is less expensive. I'm not aware of anywhere you can buy rotisserie chicken which has been separated and pre-frozen. StuRat (talk) 21:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
But you're presuming the OP can buy already frozen fried chicken. As we know, the OP can't find frozen fried chicken dinners near them. You suggested above they may be able to get large packs of frozen chicken, and the OP suggested they may do it, but as it stands, we have no real idea if the OP can find these packs of frozen chicken. And even if they can find them or dinnners somewhere, how much more convient it will be. Or even whether it will be cheaper then buying chicken from KFC in bulk and freezing it. Now the OP has mentioned there is no KFC near them this suggests the KFC idea is will most likely not work very well, but at the time of the proposal, it seems there was no harm in Futurist110 suggesting the option inspite of your dismissive attitude to the original proposal without knowing the circumstances for the OP. Nil Einne (talk) 16:34, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I know that Aldi's sells large boxes of frozen fried chicken, since I shop there, too. I also know it's less expensive than KFC. StuRat (talk) 20:30, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
There actually is a KFC between 10-15 miles from where I live, but with my medical issues, it's just not that convenient to go there all that often. I don't remember when I was there last, but I'm guessing it has probably been well over a year. InforManiac (talk) 16:46, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
My own advise is to get rotisserie chicken, break it into pieces, and freeze them. I find this to be just as cheap and good as fried chicken, and much healthier, especially if you don't eat the skin. StuRat (talk) 07:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Sir i am a big fan of oggy and the cockroaches,
I am watching it for previous one year.
before 17th july 2012 it was most entertainer but now it has become less effective due to the replacement of voices, really,
and so my question is -may you like to hear me for JACK.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.212.4.174 (talk) 06:53, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but I think you are saying that in your opinion the voices used are less interesting than they used to be, and you would like to offer your voice? If that is so, you have come to the wrong place: this is the help desk for Misplaced Pages, and has no connection or influence with the programme. --ColinFine (talk) 09:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm confused about my study
I live in KSA. I started studying I.COM (Intermediate of commerce) one year ago then I decided to study ACCA and then be Chartered accountant. I'm confused now that should I continue my I.COM? Would it be helpful for me in future if I study ACCA and CA? I've cleared my first year exam of I.COM and about to start 2nd and final year. I'm confused that if it won't help me in anyway then why I'm doing it. Someone please can guide me? It's about my future :) Regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.44.54.138 (talk) 07:25, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Unless we happen to have somebody here who is familiar with the educational system in Saudi Arabia (I think that must be what 'KSA' is), you would be much better advised to ask your college. --ColinFine (talk) 09:39, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I agree, you probably have a tutor or student support department that can help you better than we can. --Tango (talk) 15:56, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Is This Statement an Example of the Division and/or Composition Logical Fallacies?
First, let me give some background on this statement. I was debating abortion with someone who argued a pro-choice position, and this individual argued that an ischemic patient should be given rights because he had past "personhood" (sentience) and will have future "personhood" (sentience), in contrast to an embryo/fetus, who never had "personhood" (sentience).
I asked one of my pro-life friends how he would respond to this statement, and he responded with his own statement.
Here's my pro-life friend's response:
"If one argues that past personhood in itself and future personhood in itself are irrelevant for determining rights, then it's illogical to have these two characteristics combined be relevant in determining rights."
My pro-life friend is guilty of the composition and/or division logical fallacy, right? I told him that he was being fallacious and pointed out those fallacies, but he denied that he was being logically fallacious. So, which one of us is right when it comes to the logical validity of his statement?
Also, I want to make it very clear--I do not want a debate about abortion here. I just want to find out if my pro-life friend's statement is logically valid (not logically fallacious). Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 07:31, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Unless you have actually established that combining the two is relevant, then I don't see why it is fallacious to point out that there's no reason to assume combining the two makes them relevant. If you consider a baby duck's fluffiness to be irrelevant (rather than insufficient alone) in deciding whether it is a mammal, and also consider a viviparous lizard giving birth to live young to be irrelevant in deciding whether it is a mammal, then you need to explain the reasoning that would make combinations of these traits relevant in determining that a cat is a mammal :) It sounds like your first debate partner started from things they assumed were right or wrong, and then used "obvious" reasons why their gut feeling was right. It doesn't sound like they established why any of those three personhood statuses depended on the factors introduced, which are pretty sloppy factors in the first place. So it's quite reasonable to point out the gap in the logic, where the conclusion has not been supported. 86.161.208.94 (talk) 08:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I think that my pro-life friend might have misunderstood my first debate partner's position. My first debate partner argued that each of these qualities alone is insufficient for determining whether someone/something should have rights, not that they were completely irrelevant. Futurist110 (talk) 04:05, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Also, for the record, I think that my pro-life friend has a better grasp of logic than my first debate partner, since my first debate partner made numerous logical fallacies (either in regards to this issue or to other issues) while my pro-life friend either never or very rarely makes logical fallacies. Futurist110 (talk) 05:37, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
I think your pro-life friend is committing the fallacy of division. Their argument seem to be: "A does not have property Z + B does not have property Z, therefore A+B do not have property Z". I think your friend can say it has not been demonstrated to their satisfaction that A+B do indeed have property Z, but to say that A+B can NOT have property Z just because A or B individually do not have property Z is fallacious. Vespine (talk) 23:39, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I remember hearing years ago that when you boil a kettle, to make yourself a cup of tea or coffee, you should always fill it with cold water from the tap, not hot water. Is this the case, and if so why? --Viennese Waltz07:37, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I can think of two arguments:
1) Because it will boil faster if you start from cold water. This is just plain wrong. There is the Mpemba effect, but that's the reverse (freezing faster starting from hot water).
2) The idea that hot water may contain more contaminants. This could be true, say if your water heater uses an aluminum, aluminum-zinc, zinc, or magnesium sacrificial rod. However, magnesium and zinc are needed nutrients, and, while aluminum has been implicated in some health problems, like Alzheimers, I doubt if the amount you get from your drinking water is significant enough to make a difference. But, just in case, you might want to find out what type of rod you have in your water heater. Let me add a separate Q below to get more expert opinions on this. StuRat (talk) 07:43, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Those aren't the usual arguments I see. I usually see:
1) Water from the hot tap has been heated to a cosy incubation temoerature and then usually stored in the hot water tank for a while. It thus poses a greater risk of microorganisms, and the heating from hot-tap temperature to boiling point doesn't take long enough to properly kill dangerous microorganisms.(I am suspicious of the second part of this)
2) (less important) Additional mineral contaminants in the hot water will fur up your kettle's heating element more quickly.
In the UK, most older houses, and thus most houses, have a vented hot water system, with an open tank in the loft. People worry about if a rat fell into it, or just dust and grime. I have an unvented system now, but still fill the kettle from the cold tap from force of habit, although I do use water from the hot tap in the bottom half of the steamer when cooking veg. Itsmejudith (talk) 08:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
The main contaminant I have seen mentioned is lead from plumbing solder. The U.S. didn't ban lead solder until 1986 and lead continued to be used in plumbing fixtures until 1998.Rmhermen (talk) 13:53, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Here's a possible economic reason: if your hot water is stored in a heated cistern some distance from the hot water tap, then after you turn off the tap all the water in the pipe between the tap and the cistern starts to cool down. Ask yourself how long you typically have to leave the hot tap running before the water turns from cold to hot. All that cold water was heated wastefully. jnestorius18:17, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Do aluminum sacrificial rods in water heaters represent a health risk ?
Also, aluminum-zinc rods. That is, does the amount of aluminum that will be consumed as a result represent a health risk, particularly in causing Alzheimer's disease. StuRat (talk)
Aluminium does not cause Alzheimer's disease. Aluminium is fairly common in human diet anyway due to it being very common in the earth. Alum is also added to tap water to precipitate sediment. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
(after ec) :This is pure hearsay but because of the source I have no reason to doubt it. About 40 years ago my aunt was admitted to Oswestry Orthopaedic Hospital with severe acute arthritis in the extremities. After some time and exhaustive testing, she was told to dispose of any alumimium pans and only to use stainless steel, enamel coated or Teflon pans, as the aluminium had built up over the years in her joints causing the arthritis. Nobody in our family has used aluminium cooking pans since. I'd welcome any supporting references for this. (And yes she did recover to an extent after changing pans.) --TammyMoet (talk) 09:14, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
At work so no time to hunt out references, but I recall reading (in New Scientist etc) that aluminium was for some time thought to be implicated in Alzheimer's because it was detected in slides of brain tissue from (dead) sufferers, but that this was eventually shown to have come from the stain chemicals used to prepare the slides and so was not after all implicated in the disease. This itself may actually be wrong but I proffer it as an avenue for further (textual) research. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 84.21.143.150 (talk) 12:20, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
From our article on aluminium: "According to the Alzheimer's Society, the overwhelming medical and scientific opinion is that studies have not convincingly demonstrated a causal relationship between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease. Nevertheless, some studies, such as those on the PAQUID cohort, cite aluminium exposure as a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease." so it sounds as though the jury is still out.--Shantavira|15:05, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Personally I want things to be proven safe before I expose myself to them, so a lack of proof either way isn't very reassuring. StuRat (talk) 21:54, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
So StuRat I imagine that you don't eat meat, drink alcohol, put any small objects into your mouth, swim, drive, cross the street, fly, catch public transport, climb stairs, play sport, get out of bed? You know even editing wikipedia probably hasn't been "proven safe". ;) Vespine (talk) 23:21, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I do avoid a lot of those. For those I don't avoid, there's no simple alternative, unlike with aluminum sacrificial rods. And, in the case of staying in bed all day, that would prove fatal far sooner than getting out of bed, on average. StuRat (talk) 21:12, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Which kingdom rules more than 2000 years continuously?
The emperor still ruled Japan in name during the shogunate while the Pandyans apparently were driven out of their country for hundreds of years. Not a good claim to continuity. Rmhermen (talk) 13:42, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
(ec) Depends on your definition of "rule", all of the shogunates interrupted the "rule" in the sense that the emperor reigned but did not rule in the sense of exercising political power. Arguably, since 1945 the emperor also reigns but does not rule.
If we are drawing comparisons, however, the Pandyan Dynasty article also makes clear that they did not actually rule continuously between 550BC and the 1500s, there were periods of overthrow and revival - in fact a glance at the "History" section of that article shows that, even if one deems the various "revivals" of the dynasty (and I am sceptical that two lineages can be considered the same one when there is a 300 or 400 year gap in between), the longest period of continuous rule was only about 600 years. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:47, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
And if we count the same throne, but not the guy on the throne, China had a pretty long run overall. The Qin dynasty started in 221 BCE and China had an emperor until 1911. Dynasties changed, but the kingdom/empire was still "China." Ian.thomson (talk) 13:53, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Not really. At least twice, the land we know as China was ruled by a foreign power, for a considerable time period. The Yuan Dynasty is the name for the time period when the Mongols conquered and annexed China, ruling it for almost a century. The Qing Dynasty is the name for the time period when China was ruled by the Manchu or Jurchen. In Chinese historiography, whoever had functional control over the land of China was said to have the Mandate of Heaven which officially declares that these foreign powers were actually legitimate Chinese dynasties. The Mongols and Manchus also adopted Chinese customs and bureaucracy, but they seized the land via conquest from their own homelands. Even during the other time periods, China also had periods of disunity when China was divided into multiple states, with no clear single "Empire" to rule it all. During the period known as the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period, there was no single "China". The notion that there was a single "China" or even "Chinese monarchy" or "Chinese Empire" for the entire period from 221 - 1911 is like claiming that the Holy Roman Empire or the Sultanate of Rum or Russia as the Third Rome represent the same state as the original Roman Empire. --Jayron3218:47, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, but the only really long interregnum - one exceeding a lifetime in length - was between the fall of the Han Dynasty & the Sui Dynasty. And also the conquest by the Yuan took more than a century, leading to the division of the Northern & Southern Song Dynasty. The comparisons have limited validity. China was a far more integrated & continuous political, cultural & social unit from 589 to now. The Han is frequently compared to Rome. Chinese history is more like if Charlemagne had genuinely reconstituted the Roman empire & created a real EU, with common written language, Latin, that lasted to the present, with some invasions & interruptions.John Z (talk) 20:15, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Rusty vertical pipe on Southport Beach
I was on Southport Beach last night and found this pipe. I've no idea what it was for, and thought there might be a clever person on WP who may be able to help out. Around the pipe was written "TIDAL STANDARD" "LIVERPOOL FLEETWOOD" and some Roman Numerals, starting at XXIX and going down, XXVIII, XXVII, before being obscured by sand. It looks like there was space for a horizontal pipe of the same width, a vent on the top which is all but gone, a support strut at about 45 degrees, which went into the sand and 4 securing points. All visibile on the photo, but I thought some description might help.
Now, I assume it's got something to do with measuring the tides from "back in the day", but if anyone can give me something more accurate, especially if those numerals go all the way to 1, I'd be interested. Worm(talk) 12:17, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Up until very recently, raw sewerage was pumped into the sea along the coast in that area, so my guess is it's part of the old sewage outfall system. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:26, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
That would be disappointing, given my speculations. but it would make sense with regards to the vent at the top. Worm(talk) 13:32, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
And this confirms it's an old ventalation shaft from the sewage outlet. I always thought it was odd that Southport town centre was so far back from the beach, but if there was that much waste pumped out there, I can see why they'd want to keep away from the smell! Worm(talk) 13:41, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
chess rule
in a situation when a king is in a check, and wants to get out but a pinned piece is blocking the move ( meaning that piece is guarding his own king and by moving that piece his king will be in a check), is the move allowed.
in a deeper sense although the piece is pinned because capturing the other king helps him win the game he can block the opponents move. or although its a king a pinned piece can not move whatsoever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gamlielsabbah (talk • contribs) 15:27, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't understand the question. It's not clear which player you are talking about at each point. Can you rewrite the question with "Black" and "White" instead of "he"? Either way, if a player is already in check then nothing else matters - they have to get out of check in one move or it is checkmate. --Tango (talk) 16:21, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
If in check there are only 3 ways to get out of check:
1) Take the checking piece or pawn.
2) Move the king out of check.
3) Place a piece or pawn between the king and checking piece. Doesn't work if you are checked by a knight (which can "jump" over) or two pieces from different directions.
In some cases you can combine these strategies, say by taking one checking piece with your king, which then moves the king out of check from the other checking piece. In no case can you move so your king is in check (or moves through a space which is in check, in the case of castling). StuRat (talk) 19:05, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Can't understand the question either. On the last statement in it: Pinned pieces can move. They just can't move in ways which will put the King in check. But there's no way a legal move of a pinned piece could get a king out of check. (except of course if it captures the pinning piece) The pinning piece can't also be checking the King, so was correct before I added this. Very easy to make mistakes!John Z (talk) 19:43, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
As I understand(?) the question, the answer is no. You can't get out of one check by moving a piece which results in you getting into a different check. A pinned piece can't be moved (that's pretty much the definition of pinning).Clarityfiend (talk) 22:38, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Pinned pieces can move between the King & the pinning piece, along the pinning piece's line of attack.John Z (talk) 22:57, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
A number of American (and non-American) cities have district heating using steam. New York is the most notable one, but a surprising number of places have systems. The pipes have relief valves that can release steam, or if it's cool at street level the warm moist air from the tunnels can condense. Filmmakers love it, of course. Acroterion(talk)21:33, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
(ec) I believe they are steam heating vents. When I was first in the States, I photographed the first one I saw, because they are utterly unknown here in the UK - a fact which might surprise some Americans. (A recent Dork Tower comic used the existence of steam tunnels at a British university as a punchline, but the author is British by birth and upbringing, and the gag was part of a whole series of deliberate anachronisms.) AlexTiefling (talk) 21:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Just wanted to mention that the steam heat one sees in US Cities is coming out of grates, not pavement. Steam will rise and condense off pavements anywhere if they were very hot until a short sudden shower wet them and cooled the atmosphere enough to allow the evaporated steam to recondense at ground level. μηδείς (talk) 20:56, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I think you may be misunderstanding AlanSplodge, who is using UK English terminology (if he'd been from the US he wouldn't have had to ask the question!) Here in the UK, what USAians call the "sidewalk" is the "pavement" (because it's usually paved, with paving stones). What USAians call the pavement (i.e. the part the cars run on) we call the "carriageway". {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 84.21.143.150 (talk) 12:52, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Um, no. I meant what I said. Heating steam doesn't come out of pavement in any sense, it comes through what we rulers of the universe call grills or grating and sometimes manholes and the like. But steam after a rain can come off any sort of pavement, stone, concrete or tarmac or even metal plate, even in Yorkshire. The difference is between a subterranean heating overflow through gaps in the walking surface and evaporation off a hot solid manmade surface. μηδείς (talk) 05:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
What the anon was trying to explain, Medeis, is that the "grills, grating and manholes" you refer to are viewed by other people as part of the pavement, because they do not understand pavement to refer to some sort of solid surface (I am not sure what you mean by it, to be honest), pavement just means "sidewalk", and grates, grills, or whatever, can just as much be part of the pavement, thus understood, as solid surfaces. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 14:19, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Some guy on the internet is telling me that "pavement" doesn't mean the area that is paved, and that I am confusing matters by pointing out the difference between steam escaping underground steam pipes and steam evaporating off hot pavement? μηδείς (talk) 16:57, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Who is the "some guy" you refer to?
And yes, pavement in some varieties of English means simply "sidewalk", and the grills or whatever you call it is part of the pavement even if it is not actually paved with stone.
FYI, there is a difference between "steam" and "water vapour". I find it hard to believe that in your part of the world the paving stones or concrete on your pavements actually gets so hot as to produce steam. Surely a pavement like that would not be safe to walk on. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
July 21
Photo albums for film photos
I use the type with the piece of cellophane that closes on a sheet of adhesive, and you put your pictures between the two. The problem is, after a few years, whenever I pull the cellophane back to add or access a picture, the adhesive forms little balls on the cellophane. Is there any way to avoid this ? Is there another type of photo album that works better ? (Obviously I can scan them all, but that's not what I'm asking about.) StuRat (talk) 01:05, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
The adhesive is on the backing, fixing the photos and the transparent cover to it, right? You can solve your problem by leaving the photos in the same place instead of moving them over the years. 75.166.200.250 (talk) 02:25, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
That would mean every time I find or take a new batch of photos, I'd have to get a new album. Then there's also the issue of wanting to read what's written on the back to find out who these strange people are. StuRat (talk) 02:48, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Stu, I don't know if you'll find a good solution with those adhesive pages. I've found that the adhesive dries out and as the years go on, the pictures slide and fall out and the plastic no longer sticks to the page. Dismas|14:16, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Hmm. The Pyramids will one day erode into dust and blow away in the wind. That must mean their basic design is flawed. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 22:23, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
You can't seriously be making such a fallacious argument. A product meant to preserve photographs for more than a couple years should not be degrading after a couple years. --Mr.98 (talk) 00:24, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Stu mentioned "a few years" and Dismas talked of "as the years go on". Any way you cut it, that's definitely more than your "a couple years" (= 2 years). Dismas's point was valid: namely that, like most things, there's a time beyond which it becomes unreasonable to expect adhesive to still be working the way it was when it was first applied. It would be helpful if Stu could tell us exactly what the timespan is in his case. It may be the quality of the adhesive used, rather than an issue with the design of the album per se. Even the best quality adhesive has an inherently limited lifespan, although it's still longer than that of most animals. To get half a century's use out of something as fragile as less than a gram of photo adhesive is not my idea of a "basic design flaw". But maybe they deliberately choose lower grade adhesive to save costs up front, and to create opportunities for repeat sales. If that's their plan, it seems to be working beautifully. No basic design flaws there, either. The basic flaw would be someone expecting, contrary to the weight of a massive amount of evidence, that items of this nature would be made to the same quality as they were made 50, 30 or even 20 years ago. Haven't you heard, we've had a whole lot of progress since then. It's in all the papers. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 02:52, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I would too, but I think you're missing my point. We conclude that some system/artefact has a "design flaw" when it doesn't work the way, or as long as, or as efficiently as, it was designed to. But how it was designed to work, and what the consumer expects of the product, are not necessarily the same things. Unless there's some warranty or guarantee to protect you, you take your chances. It isn't like the good old days, when quality was taken for granted. Now, quality has become the exception to the rule - and you'll pay for it, don't think you won't pay. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 06:11, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I am sure this is pretty obvious; I think it's a little snippy to start invoking the pyramids. Everyone knows buyer beware; Stu was just complaining because the quality was poor. I'm not sure saying, "but maybe it was intended to be crappy" really adds much to the discussion. --Mr.98 (talk) 11:16, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
No, StuRat was complaining about the basic design being flawed, and Jack was quite rightly pointing out that it's not flawed. "Flawed" implies that the manufacturers made some kind of mistake; as Jack says, there was no mistake – it was meant to be like that. --Viennese Waltz11:45, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
My mother keeps copious photo albums. My sister died in the mid nineties, and all the pictures she has of her are falling out of my mother's glue-backed albums. My mother thinks this is just another proof the universe is out to get her. I think it is a good argument for buying the albums with the clear plastic pockets. μηδείς (talk) 03:25, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
The "Law is Always Right" Logical Fallacy
Is there a specific logical fallacy which applies to statements that say "the law says this, and since it's the law, this position must be the best/most valid one"? An example of this would be someone saying that "absolute bodily autonomy/integrity is the best/most valid position out there because the law supports this position and because there is no legal precedent for another position on this issue". I'm thinking that argumentum ad populum could work for democratic countries, since the people (indirectly) determine laws in a democracy. Another good logical fallacy which might apply for this example is the appeal to tradition. Is there a specific logical fallacy that applies to what I'm talking about, though? Futurist110 (talk) 05:53, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
I forgot about that one. That could also work--I have a question, though--does appeal to authority apply to politicians as well, since they are the ones determining our nation's laws here in the United States? Futurist110 (talk) 06:28, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Also, I'm not debating this individual myself--I just saw what she wrote on the comments to a particular blog article. She appears to justify her support of abortion by saying that the law does not allow anyone else to ever use someone else's body, and she keeps restating this belief numerous times, without ever explaining why she believes that the law is right in this case. Thus, she is (also) guilty of the proof by assertion logical fallacy. Futurist110 (talk) 06:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
The assertion, "the law does not allow anyone else to ever use someone else's body" could be taken to mean that since the fetus is using its mother's body, pregnancies are illegal, therefore Card_Zero seems to doubt that his friend can be prosecuted accordingly, and I agree. :-) --Modocc (talk) 23:41, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Actually, this was an error in my typing. I meant to say that she said that "the law does not allow anyone to use anyone else's body without the other individual's consent". Sorry for the error and the confusion. Also, her statement that no country in the world allows bodily compensation is an example of a logical fallacy called appeal by common practice. Futurist110 (talk) 04:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Eternal
In William craigs formulation of the kalam cosmological argument, the first premise states that "Whatever 'begins to exist' has a cause', this invalidates the objection about God or a first cause having a cause because it is eternal. question is besides god, is there other things that exist but didnt 'begin to exist'? 203.112.82.128 (talk) 16:34, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, time itself. Logically, God could not have existed before time itself existed. If time began to exist at a given moment, then God must have begun to exist either at that moment or later. Looie496 (talk) 16:54, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
It can be argued that time 'began to exist' at the moment of big bang, hence the second premise of KCL "Universe began to exist", so is there anything else that is independent of time that exist but didnt 'begin to exist'? 203.112.82.2 (talk) 17:19, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Assuming one accepts the argument (and I personally don't, but I understand it well enough), then nothing that is not a property of God existed outside/before the Big Bang. (I say 'outside' because I am well aware that there is no meaningful 'before'.) So one might look at Proverbs 8, and see Wisdom saying "I was in the beginning with God" - but here, Wisdom is merely an attribute of God that the author has chosen to personify. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:06, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
There's no meaningful 'outside' either. Just as talking about 'before' the big bang involves attempting to extrapolate along the temporal dimension to the point earlier than the existence of the temporal dimension itself, talking about outside the universe involves attempting to extrapolate along any one of the spacial dimensions to a point beyond that dimension. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 05:32, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
I placed 'outside' in quote-marks because I'm well aware that the exact same argument applies to it as to 'before'. I was trying to convey a more general (metaphysical) sense in which a timeless God might be considered to be other than the physical universe - apart from it, conceived of as a self-sufficient reality in itself. AlexTiefling (talk) 08:20, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
"Whatever begins to exist has a cause" does NOT imply that all things that exist* began to exist. (* includes things that are believed or perceived to exist) -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 22:20, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Likewise for the much more likely ekpyrotic universe cosmology which shares characteristics with both as well as big bang cosmology. Quantity is an example of a simple concept which is often said to exist apart from time and its own conceptual formulation. 75.166.200.250 (talk) 06:21, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I have been watching a lot of WLC debates recently. I'm really getting into the philosophy. I'm completely on the same page here:) SO! I think you are right, there is NO "other thing" which exists, but never begun to exist. You can not definite an entire category where the sole member is the thing you are trying to justify! That is called special pleading. I came up with an equally valid premise: "That which did not begin to exist, does not exist." It is just as logically valid. Using the same justification, to disprove the premise you would need to demonstrate something which did not begin to exist, it's impossible.
Another BIG problem I have with WLC's argument: He says, "some people posit that "something" can come from the nothing in the vacuum of space, but if they say that, they don't really understand "nothing": The vacuum of space is a quantum foam fluctuating thing, it's not nothing".. Well, my reply to that is that some people posit some sort of "supernatural realm" where god can "exist", well they don't really understand "nothing". Nothing means NOTHING, no quantum foam and no secret supernatural realm for God to hide in.
I think the point WLC is trying to make is something cannot come from nothing, so you're objection is just an agreement to his point. 203.112.82.1 (talk) 17:05, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't think you're quite getting the point. One of WLC's premises that the argument relies on is that there was NOTHING before the big bang. He says this is supported by science. He says that anyone who thinks matter and antimatter can form from the vacuum of space counts as "something from nothing" doesn't really understand what "nothing" is. BUT then he says that God is somehow exept from this rule, because God is "transcendednt". Well I don't buy it, put simply: DID God exist before the big bang? If WLC's answer is yes (which it no doubt is) then there wasn't NOTHING, full stop. The argument fails. Any additioal argument is special pleading. Vespine (talk) 23:22, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
From what i understand, he believes that something cannot come from "nothing" which is in-line with his argument that universe is caused by a "transcendental being". in think when he says nothing, its literally nothing (not the nothingness that physcicist talks about) and his "something" is not limited to the things inside universe, wlc talks about unembodied mind and numbers. 203.112.82.1 (talk) 00:42, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
He's constantly saying NOTHING existed before the big bang and then saying God did exist before the big bang. Well sorry: law of non contradiction, not even God can exist and NOT exist at the same time. Craig says God is "timeless and changeless", more nonsense! How can anything CAUSE something without time or change? It's like WLC thinks that the rules of the universe are like rules of the road, like speed limits, and God is a Policeman so the speed limit doesn't apply to him, he can go down the highway as fast as he likes. But of course, before the big bang there just was no highway for God to drive down! Vespine (talk) 23:11, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Since you've mentioned you watched WLC debates recently, do you know what argument he use to say that the "cause" in his KCL argument is GOD? because from what i understand, even if we say that KCL is TRUE, it only proves that a cause is needed to start the universe, this cause is logically suppose to be changeless and timeless, but i see no reason why we can equate this "cause" to "god". 203.112.82.128 (talk) 15:41, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, you are spot on. WLC says he makes a cumilative case for the existance of God. Three or four arguments which together give a "whole" picture. He says that you can logically deduce some of the qualitites of this first cause. So he uses, in my opinion, some pretty weak reasoning to say that the first cause must be: transcendent, spaceless, timeless,(because there was no space or time) uncaused, eternal (because you can't have infinite regression) personal and powerful (becuase, and this is the weakest of all, to "cause" something it has to be able to make a "choice".). Now that still doesn't really leave us at Christian God, so he goes on to use the fine tuning argument, the moral argument and the ressurection of Jesus to justify why he thinks it is actually the God of the Christians. Interesting to note actually, there is a Muslim debater called Hamza who has been doing the rounds and he's basically ripped off WLC's cosmological arguments wholesale. All he does is basically trade the ressurection of Jesus argument with "the miracle of the Quran", therefore: Allah did it. Vespine (talk) 23:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
It's fascinating how vehemently they separate their religions, given how they all worship the god of Abraham. It betrays a rather anthropogenic nature of their beliefs. Unless of course, the deity has DID.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL01:04, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
July 22
updating old information
I would like to know who updates any of the articles in Misplaced Pages. On the article of the city of Stanley, Wisconsin; it said that the 2000 census says Stanley's population is 1,800 and something. Why has this part never been up dated as of the 2010 census, including the part where the city limits has been expanded to the south? Only the part where Stanley expanded into Clark has been added. Nothing has also been said about totally why this has happened. I know I live here, but I don't have access to all this information, because I don't know where to look. Who wrote this article in the first place and why hasn't anybody been keeping it up to date like that of other cities in Misplaced Pages? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbyr55 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I noticed that sometimes Misplaced Pages users are slow to insert/add new info to various articles, especially when it pertains to articles that are considered to be of lower importance. Futurist110 (talk) 06:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
We don't have one person responsible for each article. Each one is written and modified by many different editors. Perhaps they are unaware of these changes or lack access to the information just as you do. If you find the relevant info, you can then update the article yourself (even if you only have some of the info). StuRat (talk) 06:23, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Sadly it was much easier to incorporate the 2000 US census information when Misplaced Pages lacked articles on most populated places involved than it will be to integrate the 2010 Census which involves editing existing articles. I think people in WP:USA are working on it, but it's a truly monumental task involving yet-to-be-achieved bot capabilities and approvals, among other things. 75.166.200.250 (talk) 06:27, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
As well, you can raise your concerns directly on the Stanley, Wisconsin talk page, which is Talk:Stanley, Wisconsin. The people who keep an eye on changes to the article will see this and respond, and you can then interact with them, rather than coming here for information in a round-about way. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬
You can "know who updates any of the articles in Misplaced Pages" by clicking View history at the top of the page. Stanley has had at least 26 contributors, not counting bots and anonymice. —Tamfang (talk) 23:08, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought that quite a few of the US city and town articles were added by a bot in the first place. It was told to grab various info from various online census sources and create the articles based on a template. Was I wrong in thinking this? Dismas|01:42, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that's the one I was thinking of. Though considering it hasn't been run in very nearly 6 years, I guess we can't count on it updating any articles any time soon. Dismas|07:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Tattoo - geometric design/symbol
Hello, I was hoping someone might be able to identify this design/symbol:
. I've seen it as a tattoo and I wondering if it had any significance or meaing, or whether the design just came from someone's imagination.
I've trying using Google Image search and searching for "circle with two semi-circles either side" and variants but I've had so success, so any suggestions would be welcomed. Thank you, 83.100.173.200 (talk) 12:06, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
It seems vaguely familiar, but I can't place it. If you rotate it 90º it looks vaguely related to the astronomical symbol for Mercury ()— I wonder if that isn't why it looks somewhat familiar to me. A highly-stylized double helix also comes to mind. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:44, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
"Triple Goddess" symbol of waxing, full and waning moon, representing the aspects of Maiden, Mother, and Crone — inserted here by Tamfang (talk) 23:03, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
There's also the symbol for precipitation within sight but far away from the weather station. These could all be indicative of some personal philosophy: perhaps the person with the tattoo really likes salty liquorice, or is a neopagan, or enjoys the schadenfreude of seeing it raining on other people. I'm afraid that the neopaganism is by far the most likely. Card Zero (talk)21:00, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Is it possible that this is actually some text: D-O-C (with the left of the 'D' missing)? If so, it could refer to Dr Todd Quinlan from Scrubs (TV series):
Thank you for all your responses, I hadn't heard of symbols.com, so thank you for directing me that way. I think the "Symbol 44:5" on that site is probably correct, thank you Card Zero 83.100.173.200 (talk) 18:24, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Heat wave
Just thinking - Could the Japan tsunami and resulting change of tilt in the earths axis be contributing to the current heat wave? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobant28 (talk • contribs) 22:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
This is more of a suggestion, but I could not find a place for one. I think it would be great if there were share buttons to places like Twitter and Facebook to better share Misplaced Pages content.174.126.90.38 (talk) 06:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
You can make suggestions for improving Misplaced Pages at WP:Suggestions, although you will find that this is something that has been suggested (and rejected) before. Alternatively, one of the good things about Misplaced Pages is that if you think you know a way to make it better, you can Be Bold and do it yourself. The other good thing is that someone can undo your changes just as easily... - Cucumber Mike (talk) 06:38, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
You can share anything on Facebook just by posting the link as a status update. It will show up exactly the same way as if you had shared it from the website itself. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:49, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Can you give an example of this, Adam? I rarely use facebook but have to use it to comment at certain websites. I would like to know an easy way to give a wp page. μηδείς (talk) 22:05, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Log into Facebook. Into the "Update Status" field, paste the link. That's all he means. It's the equivalent of clicking the "share on Facebook" button that many websites offer. --Mr.98 (talk) 00:37, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
That's all sharing an URL on Facebook does. Facebook will plump it out with a little image and snippet but it's the same thing. --Mr.98 (talk) 11:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
possibly the weirdest question you're going to hear in a while, but I am serious here. What we want is to set up say a dozen inflatable boats in a lake and have people paddle them around quite a lot, but at the same time, have something attached to the inflation valves of the boats, so they continue slowly filling whilst they are in use, until one by one they burst from the pressure. trouble is the suggestions we have come up with so far are electric pumps, which would be a problem with the water, pressurised CO2 cannisters, which would end up suffocating people, and hoses attached to an air compressor on the shore, which would get tangled around each other. So, what else can we use to destroy these boats?
It depends how frequently you plan on doing this? If it is just a one off then low voltage electric pumps would be fine as they will be too low voltage to cause electric shock, but would be unusable after sinking in the water... But the cost of exploding 12 boats each time must surely not be cheap either therefore the cost of 12 pumps won't add much more to it surely? I think low voltage pumps are the better idea - I certainly cannot think of anything else... gazhiley09:37, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't know the voltage, but yes it would have to be bettery power to avoid electrocution... No idea if it would be strong enough though... But the point raised by Cucumber Mike below is more of an issue than the type of pump - the material of these types of boats will take a lot of pressure to burst, therefore the seal between the pump and the valve is more likely to go before the rubber bursts... gazhiley16:54, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
An alternative idea would be to just put a reasonable amount of dry ice into the boats. As it evaporates, it will expand into CO2, of course, but I doubt this is a problem on an outdoor lake. Just don't overdo it... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:36, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure that a mechanical compressor small enough to go in the boat will have enough oomph to over-inflate it. How about using a Scuba tank filled with compressed air? You'd need to make sure that there is a) enough volume of air and b) enough pressure in the tank to over-fill the boat, and you'd probably also want to insert a regulator valve to make sure that you get a suitable length of paddling time before the boat meets its maker. Also consider the fact that failure will probably occur at the point where the hose enters the boat, so rather than exploding you might find it takes off like a balloon that's been let go.
You would need a pretty high pressure to explode each boat; I doubt whether a hand pump could do that. Wouldn't it be simpler to have the boats slowly deflate until they sink, or am I missing the point? Whatever you do, please upload the result to Youtube.--Shantavira|16:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
I definitely want to see this happen, but I would be a bit nervous about people getting tangled in the remains of a popped boat. The pressures needed to pop one also mean it will probably hurt pretty bad to get hit by the shrapnel, but I doubt it would cause any real injury. CO2 would probably work, just make sure it is well regulated. The CO2 in a dozen boats is nothing compared to the fresh air all around the boats. I think battery-powered pumps as suggested above is probably the most reasonable way to do it - you won't have to worry about regulating down high-pressure tanks, and you can probably find a pump that is easy to hook up to the boat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.131.76.183 (talk) 16:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
ok, I'm sorry. although, of course we were going to test everything beforehand to make sure it worked and was safe. Kitutal (talk) 17:17, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
First successful song that combined electro/house with mainstream?
this question has been moved here to the entertainment desk
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
What was the first successful song (one that did well in the charts) that sampled/combined house/electro music with rap/pop or other more mainstream music? For example, much of David Guetta's current works belong in this hybrid genre. The earliest success I could think of was Stronger by Kanye West, which sampled Daft Punk. Is there an earlier example?
What is the rationale behind pixellating the faces in a documentary or news video or photograph, if a readily identifiable tattoo remains visible and unpixellated? I am seeing this more and more, and it doesn't make sense. I understand the desire to grant anonymity to passers-by in some circumstances. I note that this courtesy is sometimes extended to people apparently committing crimes. Fine, I don't want to argue the rights and wrongs of that;. But *if* you decide to scratch out the face, why leave the tats on display? Is it just a legalism? Is it auto-software? BrainyBabe (talk) 16:54, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
The Reference desks are intended for people actually looking for information, not for rants disguised as questions. Looie496 (talk) 17:02, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't know the answer to the OP's question but the above comment only partially addresses it. Speaking of the US states here, and likely other places as well... If you're in a public place and someone is taking photographs or video in a public place, you may loose many of your rights and releases do not necessarily need to be signed. Dismas|17:33, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
To be used in a commercial manner (in the U.S.), it's still typical to require a Model release if a person is identifiable. What it really comes down to is limiting liability for a publisher. As to tattoos, I would guess that even for very distinctive tattoos, it is less easy to identify someone solely on that basis than on a face. Once someone sues for their photo being used in a commercial manner based on being identifiable though a tattoo, I'm sure that publishers will begin to blur them out too. Buddy431 (talk) 18:40, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
Do note that Google Translate cannot speak all languages (assuming you wanted it to talk). (I wanted something spoken in Hebrew once, and I couldn't find anything for the life of me...) - Purplewowies (talk) 00:36, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
It appears that you're right. Is there any service (on Google or outside of Google) that can talk in any languages? Futurist110 (talk) 00:41, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Based on personal experience, I'd say Google Translate barely speaks any languages at all. Machine translation just isn't reliable. AlexTiefling (talk) 12:02, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
July 24
Keeping a Good Job Past Retirement Age
Just out of curiosity, what are the odds of keeping a good, successful, high-paying job past retirement age? And by job, I meant jobs excluding those where you or your family runs the business. Thank you. Futurist110 (talk) 01:42, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
The reference desk does not answer requests for opinions or predictions about future events. Do not start a debate; please seek an internet forum instead.μηδείς (talk) 03:34, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
This is another ridiculous close, Medeis. Now, to Futurist, it would help if you narrowed down what you're looking for. Are you asking about a specific country? It shouldn't be too hard to find, for a developed nation, statistical data on the income distribution with respect to age. It may be harder to find out what proportion of the unemployed elderly voluntarily left their jobs versus being forced out, or what proportion of their income comes from their job as opposed to age-related benefits. I should note that many companies have mandatory retirement due to the concern that the elderly may not be as good at their jobs anymore. And the standards vary by country. In France (in the past, I'm not sure if this is still true) government employees had mandatory retirement regardless of job performance, including academics working for public universities. In the United States, on the other hand, many academics are still working into their 80s. So actually, the best answer would require a country and an industry, and even then, some companies may have policies that land them outside the norm. Someguy1221 (talk) 05:43, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Someguy, this is a perfectly reasonable question, it just needs more information. Country and industry would be a good start. Also relevant is current age - if you are reaching retirement age now then we can just look at the current situation. If you are still 20 years from retirement age, say, then we would need to project forward 20 years, which is much more difficult (but a lot has been written on the subject, so we should be able to find some useful references - they will mostly be speculation, but at least there should be some speculation by people well-qualified to speculate on the subject). --Tango (talk) 11:53, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Peking Beer
I have a 6-pack of Peking Beer, brewed and bottled by Peking Brewery of Peking, China. It was given to me over 20 years ago and the provider cannot recall how, when, or where he obtained it. I can find nothing in internet searches on this product. Peking became Beijing in 1949. The writing on the bottle labels and carton are in both Chinese and English.
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.41.222 (talk) 03:18, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Note that they might use the traditional name for the beer long after the city name officially changes. StuRat (talk) 04:32, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Google Books shows scattered references to "Peking Brewery" from the 1970s and 1980s, but nothing that seems particularly informative. I gather that is was one of a couple of breweries in Beijing at that time. Looie496 (talk) 05:58, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Someone on nationalgunforum.com posted a picture of a bottle and a guess that it was bottled in 1949 (no substantiation or details). Hopefully it wasn't brewed in 1970, when the New China News Agency announced that the Peking Brewery was "busy producing hydrogen, medicines, insecticides, polycrystalline silicon and potassium-sodium tartarate."Clarityfiend (talk) 06:10, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
This is the official website of the former Peking Brewery: http://www.beijingbeer.com.cn, now a joint venture with Asahi (of the Superdry fame). Their flagship brand seems to be the "Beijing White".
The website says that the company was founded in 1941 (during Japanese occupation? fitting that it is now majority owned by Japanese companies), and the "Peking Beer" brand was always colloquially known as the "Beijing White". It says that it is the oldest beer brand produced in Beijing, was at one time widely sold as a Beijing local specialty and was served at state dinners. 55% of the company was sold to a Hong Kong investor in 1994, followed by the participation of Japanese investors in 1995 and the substitution of Japanese investors for the Hong Kong investor in 1999. The factory was moved in 2003 out to the "more pristine" suburbs ahead of the 2008 Olympics. The new factory commenced production in 2004, with a new packaging and new recipe. All current products are filtered (not pasteurised) beer. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:30, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Try searching google images for, for example "北京啤酒 50年代" or "北京啤酒 60年代" ("Peking Beer 50s" and "Peking Beer 60s" respectively) (without quotes) for some example images of packaging from the 50s and 60s (or substitute the numbers for 70s, 80s, etc) - do these look like what you've got? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:37, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
As a general clue as to dates, if your bottle has the characters "國營" at the start of the Chinese text near where it says "Peking Brewery", then it definitely dates from the 1950s or after, since those characters mean "state-run", and nationalisation did not happen until the 1950s. If it says "国营", then it dates from after the 1960s, because these are simplified characters and the simplification of Chinese was not rolled out until the mid-1960s.
Whether it says "Peking" or "Beijing" is actually not a very good indicator. Many older brands in China still retain the old-style spelling even today - "Chung Hwa" cigarettes, for example, or "Peking" and "Tsinghua" universities, even "Tsingtao" beer. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:48, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Done
Resolved
)— I wonder if that isn't why it looks somewhat familiar to me. A highly-stylized double helix also comes to mind. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:44, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
