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Main page: Help searching Misplaced Pages

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
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• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
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  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
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How do I answer a question?

Main page: Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

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July 25

Glowsticks

Is there a name for people who gather in deserts at night that dance around with glowsticks while wearing hoodies? Americanfreedom (talk) 01:52, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately the current Reference desk policy is that the first response to a question should not be humorous, so I'm just going to have to restrain myself. Looie496 (talk) 02:27, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Try Psychonauts. Ditch ∝ 02:50, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Burning Man may have some relevent information for the OP. --Jayron32 05:05, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Goddam hippies. μηδείς (talk) 05:58, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

"Raver" is closest. --Viennese Waltz 09:57, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Shadowjams (talk) 09:40, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Dunmore War

I need a page that tells me the names of men who were in the Dunmore's War. More specifically the Muster Rolls for Ohio.Moseleysr (talk) 04:01, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

According to what little I know about Dunmore's War, and according to our article about it, the combatants are Native American tribes and the colony of Virginia. "Ohio" was, in 1774, not yet any definable political entity -- the "Ohio Country" was a place name -- and so it's not clear to me, even if soldiers did muster from the area now known as "Ohio", what kind of muster rolls you're expecting to find. Can you clarify a little what you're looking for? Jwrosenzweig (talk) 05:02, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

this book is used as a reference for the WIkipedia article on Dunmore's War; being titled "Documentary History of Dunmore's War". The table of contents looks like it has Muster Rolls. I haven't looked deeper, but it looks quite like that is what you want. --Jayron32 05:12, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Here are online lists including those from that book. Rmhermen (talk) 15:28, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Cheapest Vacation Destinations in the Southwestern United States?

Which vacation destinations in the southwestern U.S. have a lot of stuff in them but are relatively cheap, besides the Grand Canyon? Futurist110 (talk) 07:31, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Las Vegas can be quite cheap if you go during the week, provided you don't actually gamble. Casinos will give you cheap rooms and buffets in the hopes that you will gamble. In addition to all the Vegas sites, there's Hoover Dam nearby.

Colorado ski resorts are also cheap off-season, and the mountains are still worth seeing, year round.

If a road trip is your style, the trip from Denver to Las Vegas (on I-70 and I-15) is rather dramatic, changing from mountains to deserts and everything in between (you also drive through the northwest corner of Arizona, which has some impressive eroded rocks, and Utah, which has buttes). You could drive it in 12 hours, nonstop, but you'll probably want to take 3 or 4 days so you can stop and view the sites. StuRat (talk) 10:03, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

So, combining these suggestions, you could fly into Denver, rent a car, drive to a nice ski resort, stay there overnight, drive to some place in Utah, stay there, then drive on to Vegas, and stay there before returning the rental car and flying home. Try to time it so the entire vacation is on weekdays, so you will get lower rates. One caution, though, driving through the mountains takes guts. I had white knuckles on a few occasions. StuRat (talk) 10:20, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

• It would be easier to answer this question if you could clarify what you mean by "stuff". Things to see, things to do, or what? Looie496 (talk) 15:59, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Family favorites include Petrified Forest National Park, Joshua Tree National Park and Havasu Falls. μηδείς (talk) 19:57, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Atheist/nonreligious Arabs

Are there any atheist/nonreligious Arabs? If so, how many? --108.206.7.65 (talk) 17:28, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

See Arab_people#Religion. The proportion varies heavily by country, but there may be several million Arab Christians. Generally speaking, Jewish "Arabs" consider themselves, and are often considered by other Arabs, to be a different race. Someguy1221 (talk) 17:55, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I think you have answered a different question than the one that was asked. There are of course atheist Arabs, but getting a count would be difficult, because they are frequently discriminated against -- see Discrimination against atheists#Islamic countries. Looie496 (talk) 18:01, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I did! I got so into reading about the religion of Arab peoples that I forgot the original question. Sorry, OP. But looking more, if you look at any of our articles such as Religion in Iraq, "atheists" are actually completely absent. The only exception I found is in Lebanon, where 5% are atheists. I'm sure they exist in the other countries, they are just so few they don't even show up in surveys, or they're afraid to admit it. Someguy1221 (talk) 18:07, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

We have this article: Demographics of atheism, but Arab countries specifically are not discussed, rather lumped in with other, more broad geographic regions. I am having trouble finding sources with even rough estimates of the number of atheists in Arab countries. See the short "Religious Affiliation" passage in this book for a possible explanation as to why there might not be a verifiable answer to your question. Ditch ∝ 18:53, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

As the article I linked above points out, the majority of Islamic countries officially impose the death penalty for "apostasy", which means changing from Islam to atheism. The penalty is generally not enforced in its full rigor, but it provides a pretty obvious reason why most atheists in those countries would not go public about it. Looie496 (talk) 19:16, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

It also depends on how the data was collected. Any source going by official government records won't list atheists for most Arab nations, as some legally require each citizen to declare a religion. That's also mentioned in the link Looie gave. Someguy1221 (talk) 19:31, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

The answers above seem to ignore the fact that there are lots of atheist Arabs that don't live in Arabic countries such as Khalid Duran, Ibn Warraq and Wafa Sultan. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 21:42, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

By atheist Arab, you seem to mean atheist ex-Muslim, no? μηδείς (talk) 22:37, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

That assumption would seem to mean that Arabs are synonymous with Muslims, and that isn't true in either formulation. There are several million Arabic people who aren't Muslim (and are not recent converts away from Islam, as noted above with the Arabic Christian people), and there are several hundred million Muslims that aren't Arabic. --Jayron32 23:03, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

No, my statement is based on the understanding that the three people mentioned were all raised Muslim and are hence, as I said, ex-Muslims. I congratulate you on misunderstanding that. μηδείς (talk) 23:12, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

They also all have the letter "a" in their name. What's your point? --Tango (talk) 23:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

That Khalid Duran, Ibn Warraq and Wafa Sultan are atheist ex-Muslims known for their critiques of Islam, and that nobody gives a fuck if they are of Arab as opposed to, say, Pakistani descent? Hope that's not unclear after the third saying. μηδείς (talk) 01:01, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

(EC) I think μηδείς is trying to say the people shouldn't be considered Arab for some reason. I don't think it's a particularly good point. I haven't looked in to the three examples but I presume those people potentially self identify as Arabs or at least would often be identified by others as Arabs. Salman Rushdie was also raised a Muslim but is now atheist, I don't think he's commonly called an atheist Arab and doubt anyone here planned to do that. Similarly there must be Arabs who were raised as Christians who are now atheist and even those who were raised as atheists. Nil Einne (talk) 01:09, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Looking in to the cases, Ibn Warraq was born in Pakistan. Wafa Sultan was born to an Alawite family in Syria. Khalid Duran's article doesn't comment and I won't use external sources for BLP reasons although the article does give their name in Arabic. So μηδείς has a point that one example is likely a poor example. I'm guessing 203 was confused by the fact Ibn Warraq sounds like an Arabic name, but that's probably because it's a pen name (with a fair amount if history). It does seem to me there was a much better way to make the point that one of the example was flawed, starting with WP:AGF that the IP understood the difference between someone being Muslim and someone being an Arab but was somehow mistaken perhaps because they were going by other things like the names. N.B. For BLP reasons, I've attempted to avoid any speculation of specific people on my part concentrating on what's in the article/s. Nil Einne (talk) 01:17, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Ibn Warraq is an Arabic name, so I incorrectly assumed that he was an Arab. Alawi is a religious group, not an ethnic one. I'm pretty sure that Wafa Sultan is an Arab, but maybe I'm wrong. I was also assuming that Khalid Duran is an Arab based on his name being Arabic, but looking at an external source I think actually has one Arabic parent and one European. I have no idea how he identifies. I deliberately excluded atheists who were formerly Muslim who I knew weren't Arabic like Salman Rushdie. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 02:13, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Nil and 203 for your reasoned responses. No, I meant exactly what I said, that I thought 203 might have meant to say that they were atheist ex-Mulsims, instead of atheist Arabs. It seems I was wrong, but then it also seems I took account of that possibility by using the verb seem and asking a question, didn't I, rather than making the absurd positive claim Jayron32 chose to read where it wasn't written? μηδείς (talk) 02:23, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

The obvious elephant in the room is that declaring one'self atheist in many Arab countries would be a serious crime, so many atheists, or those who might be atheist had they lived somewhere else, don't declare it and are thus hard to define. Sort of like when Ahmadinejad declared there are no gays in Iran. I think it will be incredibly difficult to find statistics on the number of atheists in those nations, also depending on how you define atheist (do people have to be outwardly atheist, or do you care about what they actually think?). Shadowjams (talk) 03:50, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Help with editing signature

I am unsure if this is the right place, but I have nowhere to turn. I've been trying to change my signature now for several months and no matter how I input it, it tells me it is invalid. But everything is correctly coded and closed off. And it keeps telling me it's an invalid, raw signature. Anyone able to help? _{MusicFreak7676} 21:27, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Have you tried WP:VPT? That would seem like the place for this. I would just give them the error message as well as the sig you are trying to add, bracketed by <nowiki></nowiki>. Should also probably tell them whether you checked the "wikimarkup" box. Someguy1221 (talk) 21:32, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I will try that. I have everything marked up and all it tells me is that it's an invalid signature but does not tell me which part of invalid. _{MusicFreak7676} 21:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

It's more likely that MusicFreak is doing something wrong than that there is a technical problem with the software. The best place to ask about this is Misplaced Pages:Help desk. When you ask for help there, it will save time if you avoid vague descriptions like "it tells me it is invalid", and instead describe the specific actions you performed and the exact wording of the error message you received. Looie496 (talk) 21:35, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Where specifically should I go so I don't ask the same thing over and over again? And all I'm doing it copy/pasting the code I've written out, pressing "Save" and it tells me it's invalid. But won't tell me how. _{MusicFreak7676} 21:38, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Go see my comments over at VPT. If you still get an error, copy paste the error message you are getting. Someguy1221 (talk) 21:41, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

July 26

Vowels/Consonants at the End of Many Female/Male Names

When did the Burger King on the corner of 7th Street and Warren Ave. in Bremerton, WA first open its doors?

Here. Thanks in case someone actually finds out, though I'm not at all confident anyone who sees this has the ability to find out. I went there as a kid many years ago and just was curious. 20.137.18.53 (talk) 13:38, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

According to Kitsap County's parcel data web app, , it was built in 1970. Building details link: . General info link: . It is possible it was not originally a Burger King. The parcel was sold in 1985, for $355,000: . Pfly (talk) 23:35, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Your best bet would probably to either ask the Burger King store itself (probably not easy to get you question passed up to someone that would actually either know or get someone to look in to it) or the PR people for Burger King for the state or country or however Burger King organises themselves and see if they will provide the info. Nil Einne (talk) 06:54, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

You should be able to get in touch with the franchise owner, and they should know (unless it has passed hands since opening). A lot of owners put up a sign mentioning who owns it, and a manager could also help get you in touch with them. I also agree with Nil Einne that BK corporate can probably help. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 18:01, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Google Talk

Today, my Google Talk suddenly started acting weird. I haven't changed any of the settings, but when I log in, a green ball appears beside my name. However, none of my contacts are displayed in the pane below, and even when I try sending them fresh invites, nothing happens. I tried reinstalling G.Talk, and signing out and signing in multiple times. Nothing's working. The same thing happens when I'm online on Gmail. I can see the contact names, but none of them are online (even if they are in real life) and no one else can see me online either. Can anyone tell me what the matter can possibly be? Thanks in advance. 117.227.167.242 (talk) 14:42, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

There's a Google Talk outage going on - --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:48, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Grammar

"The kitten was bearing its mother patiently as she licked it vigorously up and down its back. " In this sentence, is the use of "bear" correct, or should it be "was bearing with its mother.." instead? 117.227.151.153 (talk) 18:04, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

As written, the sentence implies that the kitten is carrying the mother. "Bearing with" would be better, but it still has the potential to be misconstrued as "carrying" rather than "putting up with" eldamorie (talk) 18:31, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

"Bearing with its mother's attention" would work better. μηδείς (talk) 18:54, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

It's comprehensible, but confusing. I think there are two different problems with it (though I would call them lexical, not grammatical). One is that "bear" in this sense is usually a static verb, like "like", and is not normally used in the progressing ("be bearing"). The other is that "bear" (in that sense) usually takes an action rather than an actor as its object ("I can't bear this carping"). When it does take a person (or an animal), it refers to something the person habitually does, rather than a specific action ("I can't bear him!"). It can also take a dummy object ("it") with a temporal modifying clause, and that is what I would use here: "The kitten bore it patiently as its mother licked ... ". --ColinFine (talk) 19:01, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree that the verb should be treated as static, and thought to comment on the preferability of bore with its mother's attention. But one can imagine circumstances where an active description might make sense if the context of previous sentences warranted it. Frankly speaking, I can't stand people who say things like "I'm loving it." But I am old-fashioned in that I have standards and traditions. μηδείς (talk) 04:22, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

We have a Language Reference Desk, where any future questions about grammar should be posted. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 21:12, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I suggest substituting "tolerating" for "bearing", to make this sentence clearer. StuRat (talk) 10:00, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

There is a difference in connotation and sense. Tolerate focuses on the result and can mean "doesn't mind", while bear with focuses on the emotion and self-control of the subject who, it is implied, does mind the treatment. μηδείς (talk) 16:19, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Does anyone remember this toyline?

Does anyone remember this toyline? It was from the late 1970s - early 1980s. There were robots, which were a standard, blocky shape, but came in various colours. They could be connected to each other to form larger structures. There were also accessories, like drillbits, and maybe wheels and treads, that could be attached to the robots. There were also tiny, non-poseable human figures that could serve as pilots of large vehicles formed from the robots. JIP | Talk 18:17, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think you mean Transformers, but I thought I'd ask. It might be helpful if you said what country these were in. --ColinFine (talk) 19:03, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

As a die-hard Transformers G1 fan, I'm certain it wasn't Transformers. I saw these in Finland, but I don't think they came from there. They were probably either from the USA or from China or Japan. JIP | Talk 19:07, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

This sounds familiar, but my search of ebay and amazon was fruitless. μηδείς (talk) 22:00, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I searched Plaid Stallions for "robots", and the third result was an item about Microbots, which mentions Micronauts. I don't suppose it was either of those? (I also noticed Space Robots: UFO series.) I guess as a Transformers fan you know all about Category:Toy_robots already. Robotix (toys) seems a possibility but (judging by an image search) was not very blocky; Zoids is also possible, but was even less blocky.  Card Zero  (talk) 22:56, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Sort of reminds me of Voltron, specifically Armored Fleet Dairugger XV but doesn't quite exactly fit your description. Vespine (talk) 04:06, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Maybe GoBots? Adam Bishop (talk) 11:30, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

No, none of these are at all like the toyline I remember. It was more of a construction toyline than a robot toyline. The toyline basically consisted of rectangular building bricks, except that these building bricks were kind-of like robots - as I recall they could move their arms and legs around a bit, and had faces. Every robot was the exact same shape, but they came in various colour schemes. You could build vehicles from the robots like you would from LEGO bricks, but you could also play around with individual robots. Various accessories, like wheels, treads and drillbits could be attached to the constructions. It was definitely a 1980s toy, but I'm not sure if it was already around in the 1970s, I was three years old when the 1970s ended. JIP | Talk 15:01, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Robotroids/Bloccars? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 17:41, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps this toy? It does not appear to have detachable wheels and treads, but it is a modular construction toy with drillbit like tools. --Modocc (talk) 21:42, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Foul smell from mouth

July 27

How or where can one force a literal verbatim web search?

How or where can one force a literal verbatim web search? If, for example, you put "robotix blox" in the search field at Google, even in quotes, you will get results for "robotics blocks" whether you want a similar conventional spelling or not. I am sick of search engines acting as if I don't know what I want, even when I put it in quotes. What if you want only results for your deliberately idiosyncratic spelling? Is there a way beyond quote marks to force a verbatim search at Google, or some other site that offers literal verbatim results when you ask for them? μηδείς (talk) 04:31, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I just tried that and did not see any results containing the word "blocks". I do know that you can put a single word in quotes to stop it interpreting it any other way, so you can try something like "robotix" "blox", though you lose the phrasing capability that way, i.e. you may find results with only "robotix" but not "blox".  dalahäst  04:51, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, for god's sakes, I can't even get an effed up search result when I want to. Ignore the specific example above. If you type in something close to a common word, even in quotes, you will sometimes get back only the common result, and not the one you typed in. Is there a way to force only the exact result you have typed in? (I will have to try to think of a recent result that went "conventional" on me.) μηδείς (talk) 05:05, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying searches using various plausible typos in quotes, and thus far all of them are returning results with actual typos in them, and one video of Runescape graphics on YouTube, whose uploader cannot spell anyway—I searched for "gfraphics" and got "Testing RS Gfraphics Whatch in HD Full Screen". I'm tempted to read "whatch" as (because one lengthened vowel sign doesn't cut it). I even tried chopping onions without "crieing" and barack obama is a "mnuslim", both of which brought only results containing the misspelled and mistyped words.  dalahäst  05:13, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Maybe I should withdraw the question until I can find an example. What usually happens is I am looking for something particular in a foreign language, and I put at least two terms in quotes, but get only proper English results that resmble the foreign terms I want. I am going to hat this question because I don't want people wasting ewffort when I haven't provided a viable example. One will occur soon enough, and I will repost it. μηδείς (talk) 05:24, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Efforts to find a suitable example notwithstanding, on Google you can click 'More search tools' on the left hand side and then 'Verbatim'. That should give the effect you're after. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 07:37, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Weird, I don't have an option for "More search tools" on my Google home page. There's a black menu bar running across the top with Search, Images, Maps and so on, but nothing at all on the left hand side. Clicking 'Search' just takes me back to the basic home page. There's a drop down menu called "More" at the right end of the black menu bar, but clicking that does not lead me to Verbatim either. Nor does 'Advanced Search'. --Viennese Waltz 07:54, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

If I do a normal search on google.com, then on the first page of results at the bottom of the left-hand column there is something saying "show search tools" which, when I click on it, shows a list of options including "verbatim". Google seem lately to have started hiding a lot of stuff (e.g. try and find Google Scholar in a hurry). --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:10, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

That's it. I'm sorry, I explained it poorly. Here's Google's page explaining how to do it. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:14, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Ah, got it. I was looking for it on the home page, not the search results page. Thanks. --Viennese Waltz 10:59, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Whenever Google corrects my search, it gives a message at the top saying "showing results for ", and in a smaller font just below that, I can click on my actual search terms. Adam Bishop (talk) 11:29, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The problem I was having was with Google giving synonyms, which using quotes doesn't fix. μηδείς (talk) 16:14, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

On Google, preceding a search term with "intext:" forces it to be in the result. intext:"robotix blox" would be the way to search for your given example. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 14:48, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Brilliant! The verbatim tool is exactly what I was looking for, thanks CM! The intext cue is great too. BTW, on my screen the verbatim option shows up under "show search tools" on the bottom left. And yes, it is very annoying how they have made finding Google scholar a three day exercise. μηδείς (talk) 16:11, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Validity of International Fund For Animal Welfare

Good day I would like to contribute financially to this fund, but am concerned about the "controversy" section on your Misplaced Pages page, where it says that this organisation has funded animal experiments. Can anyone tell me if this is a worthwhile organisation to contribute to? 196.210.131.244 (talk) 05:43, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

We can help track down whatever facts are publicly available, but we cannot make value judgements like "worthwhile". Only you can do that. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 08:21, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

If you have any doubt, why not give to one of the many legitimate animal welfare organizations, like the Humane Society, ASPCA/RSPCA, or PETA ? StuRat (talk) 09:57, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

This is the sort of value judgment (e.g. "legitimate") that the OP has to make on their own (i.e. what Jack said above). For example (WP:OR warning) many ethical, animal-loving people find PETA's official stances on many topics far too extreme (e.g. pet breeding is by definition unethical). If you mean only that PETA is a legitimate non-profit organization, then of course it is, and so is International_Fund_for_Animal_Welfare -- But the OP has potential qualms about them as well. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:11, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The OP's concern was that they don't want to give money to any organization which funds animal experiments. The list I gave should be safe, in that respect. StuRat (talk) 19:16, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, the RSPCA kills animals, so I don't know if that would sit right with them. And I happen to think that animal experimentation is worthwhile so... 203.27.72.5 (talk) 08:11, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Euthanizing animals is not the same thing as conducting experiments on them. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:29, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

...unless you use prussic acid. StuRat (talk) 23:45, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Not sure what you're getting at their Stu. Are you suggesting that there is some valid research purpose served by giving animals doses of HCN? 203.27.72.5 (talk) 00:03, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Ahh...I just noticed where the link goes...I get it now. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 00:04, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

What happens to mail without a sender address after mail forwarding ends?

So, here is my situation. A friend sent me a letter without sender address. I resided in a complex with what the USPS calls a "unique ZIP Code." As such, USPS cannot forward my mail and allows the controller of the ZIP code to do such. The entity controlling this zip code stated that they would a) forward my mail to my current address, provided it arrives before August 15th, b) return mail to sender after August 15th, and c) will not allow an agent appointed by me to pick up mail on my behalf. What will happen to my mail if it arrives after the 15th. I was informed there is nothing that can be done, including an extension of the mail forwarding (which was only allotted for 60 days despite the fact USPS allows longer) but was not told what happens when it cant go anywhere. I don't want them to throw my mail away but it seems they are leaving me no options and this letter has high sentimental value.--67.172.183.130 (talk) 17:57, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

It might go to the Dead letter office. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 18:00, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't get it. The chances of the letter not arriving by August 15 are essentially zero if all the other information is accurate, so why all the angst? Looie496 (talk) 18:29, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

It's international mail.--67.172.183.130 (talk) 18:31, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Where and when was it sent? If it's just a letter, it wouldn't normally take that long to arrive (parcels sent by sea take ages, but letters should be sent by air in most cases). --Tango (talk) 21:54, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

If it was going to go the a dead letter office, the USPS would be able to forward it. The problem is, it will have been correctly delivered as far as the USPS is concerned - they delivered it to the complex it was addressed to, so they've done their bit. What happens after that is up to the complex. If the complex refuses to do anything, then I don't see what the OP can do (other than try and convince them to change their minds). The mail will most likely be shredded. --Tango (talk) 21:54, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that is as clear as you think. The entity controlling the zip code is evidentally responsible for forwarding mail and set their own policies. It sounds like they return mail sender after August 15. Whether they return mail to sender if it doesn't have a return address isn't known. It wouldn't surprise me if they do so since they may simply stamp the letter/whatever as return to sender (perhaps with other info like recepient moved without forwarding address) and give it back to USPS if the sender isn't in their ZIP code which may include if there's no return address (as I expect this is what they normally do if someone else marks the mail as return to sender and gives it back to them). But the best way to find out would be for the OP to actually ask the entity responsible. Note that reason this has to change the fact the entity is responsible for forwarding and USPS will not forward mail addressed to that entity. Nil Einne (talk) 16:08, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I would suggest you contact a lawyer. If a private entity has your property you may be able to seek civil action to secure it, but you have to act promptly and through an expert who can help you; we are not those experts. μηδείς (talk) 00:54, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Uranium specimens

E-bay is selling uranium specimens to individual consumer. Is this legal ? Terrorist can use such things for making bombs ? Irontaker (talk) 18:39, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Natural uranium can't be used to make a bomb: that's why centrifuge separation plants are so much in the news. See enriched uranium, not to mention autunite. Acroterion (talk) 18:52, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

It is completely legal and not at all dangerous from a terrorism perspective. You cannot use such small amounts of natural uranium for making anything hazardous (the uranium are those tiny green crystals on the rock specimen, and even then the crystals are less than 50% uranium). To build a bomb require tons and tons of the stuff, either enriched or in a nuclear reactor. --Mr.98 (talk) 18:53, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The difficulty in generating a nuclear bomb is refining and enriching the uranium, not acquiring it. Iran has had enough uranium to make a nuclear bomb for many years, but still hasn't finished one. There's not much chance of a ragtag team of terrorists pulling it off even with unlimited amounts of the stuff. It takes far too much infrastructure. Someguy1221 (talk) 18:58, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The more realistic possibility is that they could make a dirty bomb from it. They would still need to acquire large quantities, but wouldn't need to enrich it. StuRat (talk) 19:14, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Not really; the half-life of uranium -- particularly U-238 -- is far too long to represent a credible radiological threat. Our article notes 9 usable isotopes, none of which are uranium. — Lomn 20:01, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but a dirty bomb is more about propaganda than actual harm. If a bomb went off in a city and spread uranium all over it, people would be reluctant to go there, regardless of the actual threat. StuRat (talk) 20:34, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

You still want enough to prompt the authorities to send people in hazmat gear out with Geiger counters. People expect to see things like that when there is a radiation scare, so won't be particularly scared without it. A bit of Uranium-238 (which you can find in the bedrock that most cities are built on, although in very low concentrations) isn't going to produce enough radiation to prompt that. --Tango (talk) 22:01, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Most people associate uranium with nuclear weapons, so think of it as deadly. The only way to keep people from avoiding an area contaminated with uranium would be to lie to them and tell them there isn't any. StuRat (talk) 22:43, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Uranium is deadly, even if it's not particularly radioactive. It's very toxic. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 02:22, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Natural uranium would be a poor choice of dirty bomb material. It's misleading to confuse the two. Nobody believes a dirty bomb would be made out of natural uranium. The ideal dirty bomb materials are much more radioactive substances, such as those found in medical facilities. It's not that toxic — it's about as toxic as lead. Which isn't good for you, but it would make a lousy choice of poison. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:51, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

When someone asks "Is this legal?", I always want to know which legal jurisdiction they're talking about. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 21:46, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

When someone asks "Is this legal?", I always wonder why it's not being closed as a request for legal advice... 203.27.72.5 (talk) 02:22, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Some people would be shocked at what's illegal to talk about in certain countries. Someguy1221 (talk) 21:58, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

It's on the US Ebay site and says it it shipping from the US. It is quite clearly US jurisdiction that applies. --Tango (talk) 22:01, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

OK, but is it US federal law or the law in whatever state it's being shipped from? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 00:25, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm finding plenty of material on laws that regulate uranium mining and uranium waste disposal, as well as the international legality of uranium weapons. However, I'm finding precious little (re: nothing) on the legality of simply owning the material. I should note that there are materials found in consumer products that are far more radioactive than uranium ore. But recalling the case of David Hahn, I don't think he was even charged with possession of dangerous quantities of radioactive material (whatever crime that would classify as). He was only charged with larceny for stealing the material. Someguy1221 (talk) 00:34, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I can't find anything that makes it specifically illegal, but it is certainly not easy to find. That said, Theodore Gray seems to have acquired some pieces rather publicly, and further links to resources such as 'United Nuclear that don't seem to concerned about doing so. Both are located in the US. Mingmingla (talk) 00:57, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Note that United Nuclear have been fined for their breaches of federal law in the past. More details here. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 03:00, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

That particular case has nothing to do with them selling stuff. The other stuff does show that the interstate laws are complicated. But none of this impacts the question being asked. The laws on the ownership and sale of gram quantities of uranium ore are pretty straightforward. --Mr.98 (talk) 00:30, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Ownership of gram quantities of natural uranium is completely legal under federal law. If you are exporting or importing quantities greater than 500 kg, you need to declare it to the appropriate agency. Nobody cares about quantities less than that. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:51, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Owning sample amounts of uranium ore is legal everywhere so far as I know. Large amounts of natural uranium are regulated in some jurisdictions (natural uranium in large quantities is regulated by the EU as a "nuclear material," but the IAEA does not consider it to be relevant to proliferation). The quantities that one can easily buy online are not relevant from a security perspective. I hasten to emphasize, again, that there is no security risk whatsoever with small quantities of natural uranium. You cannot do anything dangerous with it that you couldn't do with an equivalent piece of lead. It cannot be made into a nuclear weapon (there is not enough U-235 in a sample of that size to do anything interesting, and even if you miraculously could turn the entire thing into plutonium it still wouldn't be enough to do anything with), it is not very toxic, it is not very radioactive, it is not usable in a dirty bomb. It's completely innocuous. The worst that could happen from small quantities of natural uranium is that they will, over time, secrete radon gas, which in high concentrations will statistically increase your chances for lung cancer. So if you were storing barrels of natural uranium in your home or workplace without proper ventilation, there would be a long-term occupational health issue. But you'd still really need a lot of it for that to be a concern. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:51, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I am the Radiation Safety Officer at my workplace and as such have had some training in the different classification of radioactive substances, their industrial uses and the regulations including registration of radioactive sources. I'm not in your jurisdiction, so I can't comment on how things work there, but here in Australia the relevant pieces of state legislation refer to the ARPANSA National Directory for Radiation Protection which gives a threshold of 1000g of natural uranium above which that material is considered a radioactive material for the purposes of the legislation. Amounts smaller than that are not considered radioactive material and therefore do not require registration or a license. Sources, such as the ones you saw on eBay are often found in educational settings and there is an ARPANSA guideline their use. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 02:56, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Who wrote the text of the NATO treaty?

Is it known, who the persons were who wrote the actual text of the North Atlantic Treaty, the foundation document of the NATO?

I mean, sure, it were representatives from the founding states. E.g. for the Declaration of Independence we know that large part of the text was made up by Thomas Jefferson.

Who wrote the NATO treaty? Are there some names of the most important authors? --88.130.125.48 (talk) 22:57, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Theodore Achilles chaired the drafting committee in the Washington talks. There were also earlier secret talks at the pentagon 22 March--1 April 1948 of which Achilles said:

The talks lasted about two weeks and by the time they finished, it had been secretly agreed that there would be a treaty, and I had a draft of one in the bottom drawer of my safe. It was never shown to anyone except Jack. I wish I had kept it, but when I left the Department in 1950, I dutifully left it in the safe and I have never been able to trace it in the archives. It drew heavily on the Rio Treaty, and a bit of the Brussels Treaty, which had not yet been signed, but of which we were being kept heavily supplied with drafts. The eventual North Atlantic Treaty had the general form, and a good bit of the language of my first draft, but with a number of important differences.

—eric 00:11, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

...and from the same interview discussing John D. Hickerson.:

More than any human being Jack was responsible for the nature, content, and form of the Treaty...It was a one-man Hickerson treaty.

—eric 00:56, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Eric,

thanks for your answer!

I have added this to the article. :-) --88.130.88.200 (talk) 00:32, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

July 28

Rectifier/electronics

I posted some questions at the Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Science here. Appreciated if someone with knowledge on this subject would take a look at it. Doesn't hurt to widen the audience :) Thanks, TMCk (talk) 00:36, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Don't post multiply. The same volunteers are likely monitoring both boards. Edison (talk) 02:54, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Uhm, no, that's not very likely for most I'd say and you'd have a hard time to proof me wrong on this. Anyways, I only pointed to the other thread w/o repeating the whole thing here so what's your problem. I know you as being reasonable whenever I've encountered you. So please, don't distract from my inquire. Thanks, TMCk (talk) 03:37, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for your response over there. Just saw and responded to it.TMCk (talk) 03:46, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Edison here, all evidence I've seen from responses is that the majority of people who can answer questions like yours are monitoring science and misc, and generally humanities too. While posting a link isn't as bad as posting the question again, it's generally considered rude on the RD. And the sort of thing likely to lead to people being reluctant to help you, particularly when even after this is pointed out, you respond as if you the person pointing it out is at fault. Nil Einne (talk) 17:25, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

A claim to need replacing the PCM on my PT Cruiser sounds fishy - Ripoff?

After the engine quit in the middle of driving, I had to get my 2002 Chrysler PT Cruiser towed to the service department for a local Ford dealer off of a 4-lane highway east of town. (I was fortunate to see this happen on a residential street; not a busy boulevard intersection, so I simply coasted it to a curb in a fairly quiet neighborhood.)

I got a call back about my Powertrain Control Module being at fault, not under my service plan, and after parts, labor and diagnostic ($91 to make a diagnostic) (but "mostly parts,") the total would be $788.30.

I just have a gut feeling that there's not all that meets the eye, so to speak.

I spoke to a representative of a company that sells portable car diagnosers, and he was once a technician, so he mentioned "re-flashing" the PCM (that is, reprogramming it; reimaging it to factory pre-programming.)

So that sounded like an epiphany - I would like to entertain this money-saving idea straight to their general manager tomorrow morning.

Now how likely is it that my PCM just needs a re-flash? Moreover, what would cause the PCM to need an entire replacement and not merely a reflash?

Some vital info you may need to help you answer:

2002 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER LTD. ED./DREAM CRUISER
VIN: (redact info provided in good faith μηδείς (talk) 03:47, 28 July 2012 (UTC))

I bought it secondhand from the Ford dealer; I am the 3rd owner of this vehicle. They claimed to have committed a 150-point inspection before sale.

I estimate about 97,000 miles on the odometer, give or take a few hundred.

So overall, what are the best methods to deal with this new predicament? Are there methods you know of to bypass the ordeal for a reduced charge and still restore the car to good working order? Too many fibers of my being tell me that the service advisor is trying to milk me out of more than this problem is actually worth.

PS: Much of the time, the service advisor's demeanor and tone doesn't seem to reflect that he's been trained in the fine arts of customer service. He sounds like, and his general aura seems like he worked previously in a line of work that involved causing others to reprehend him. He even cracked a joke that I'd "have to trade in my first three children to pay the repairs." I'm not sure whether he wanted to aggravate me or that was just a (very) misguided attempt to get me to laugh. I hope I can switch to a different service advisor for a second opinion and potentially a better deal, when I speak with their General Manager tomorrow. And would you be confident that speaking with said Manager will do much good? --70.179.170.114 (talk) 03:23, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

One suggestion is to get the parts you need from a junkyard (call them each up and tell them what part you need, they have their parts listed in a database these days). I'd also suggest installing them yourself, or have a friend do it, if you know somebody who is "handy". StuRat (talk) 03:34, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. Even though I'll pursue it as necessary, I would feel dubious to the quality that they are at that point. On the other hand, I found a supplier site that sells them brand new for nearly $160, and with a lifetime warranty for $100 higher. Did that seem like a great deal to you? I would hope that supplying this to them will cut the bill greatly. On the other hand, if they don't accept user-supplied parts, do you know what chains of auto-repair shops will? --70.179.170.114 (talk) 04:09, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think you mean quality of the used parts, but are worried that they might be worn out. I was assuming that a 10 year old used car is just "basic transportation", and that you don't need for it to last all that long anyway. If this is a car you want to keep it top condition for years, then, by all means, spend the extra cash for new parts. I think it's quite likely they would install parts you supply, but you should ask first. Although you might find that their labor prices suddenly go up, as they have to soak you somewhere. StuRat (talk) 04:59, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

My thanks to the IP for reposting his question. I have again removed the VIN number, which User IP 70 has given in good faith: "I'm volunteering the VIN info. This is my car, and I trust posting it here will not harm me nor the vehicle. I hope that posting this VIN would bring us closer to resolving this matter, as it may pull up particular unique needs, known defects and the like." given it is a unique identifier. If other editors believe this information is both actually necessary and guaranteed harmless I invite it to be restored if there is consensus. μηδείς (talk) 03:47, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Can you think of any scenario where posting your VIN will cause harm ? StuRat (talk) 03:55, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

^-- I would beg this question as well. --70.179.170.114 (talk) 04:09, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Not sure where I first heard it, but the greatest difficulty in car theft is not taking the vehicle - it is providing clear title. A VIN is integral to that. --Nouniquenames (talk) 04:33, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

The VIN number is stamped onto the chassis. If you have already stolen the vehicle physically, then you can read it off, but it won't help you claim ownership. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 04:37, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

In addition to the other answers, I would suggest taking it to a Chrysler dealer, as they will be much more familiar with the PT Cruiser than a Ford dealer. Even though you bought it from a Ford dealer, they may not be experts on that model. RudolfRed (talk) 23:12, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Or, a an independent non-affiliated mechanic for another opinion. RudolfRed (talk) 23:14, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and they are widely known for their honesty. If you can find one that works for a used car dealership, all the better ! :-) StuRat (talk) 23:42, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Is mental health situation in South Africa and Botswana some what stable because of stability both countries?

Is mental health situation in South Africa and Botswana some what stable because of stability both both countries? They seem to have some kind of mental health program for both countries: http://www.moh.gov.bw/ http://www.ajol.info/index.php/ajpsy/article/view/77346/67789 Does any have info on this tropic? Buffyfan84 (talk) 03:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean by the stability of the mental health situation in a nation ? Do you mean their mental health CARE systems ? StuRat (talk) 04:02, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm talking about those countries mental health acre systems. Yes. How good are their mental health systems? Do they have shrinks and mental hospitals? Buffyfan84 (talk) 04:41, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

You may be interested in Healthcare in South Africa, Department of Health (South Africa) and/or Health in Botswana. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 04:46, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

-- I'm not talking HIV or aids in Botswana. I mean mental health in Botswana.

Thank you for the links but is there source that talks about mental healthcare in Botswana. Not about people having aids but about how people with mental illnesses are treated there. Thank you. Buffyfan84 (talk) 04:55, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't know about those nations in particular, but 3rd world nations generally have a very limited total health care budget, and faced with immediate killers like AIDS, tend to focus their resources there. Mental health may get little, if any, consideration. StuRat (talk) 05:01, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Please post replies to this question here, not on my talk page. If you click the links and follow the references to the South Africa Department of Health and the Botswana Ministry of Health you may find what you're looking for. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 05:03, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

See and for Google search results. StuRat (talk) 05:05, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

What stone the queen wears for her necklace?

I think it is pearl. Is there any other evidence or suggestion means let me know?--Tenkasi Subramanian (talk) 14:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

If you mean the Queen of Punt, that looks much too big to be a pearl. They preferred larger and more colourful gemstones in those days anyway. If you mean the Queen, she was wearing a diamond neckless last night.--Shantavira| 20:57, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Wow, what a looker ! Put's Queen Victoria to shame ! StuRat (talk) 23:39, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Is she were neck-less, she couldn't have been wearing a necklace. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 23:55, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

By that logic, a cutlass must be cutless. StuRat (talk) 00:06, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Reminds me of the old joke: Hear about the guy who poisoned his wife with a razor blade? He gave her arsenic. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 08:31, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

I had to switch to British English mode to get that joke (the "arse" part). StuRat (talk) 09:18, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Jack wins today's award for the best punning situation. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:32, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

The Personal Jewel Collection of Elizabeth II includes a notable pair of pearl necklaces.  Card Zero  (talk) 21:03, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Please, this question has obviously nothing to do with with Queen Elizabeth but is about the Queen of Punt depicted here. Many historians believe Punt to have been located around or near modern Somalia, although Djibouti and Eritrea has also been mentioned. This (unsourced) site: http://jewellery.indianetzone.com/1/occurrence_gemstones.htm lists various gemstones natural to those countries, for example it lists amethyst, aquamarine, emerald and quartz for Somalia. So it may have been one of those, however it could also have been gems that had been traded from other places. --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:47, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

It has to do with gems, though, and ERII's pearl necklaces might provide a frame of reference for the size of pearls. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Not really. Spherical natural pearls doesn't come in a size comparable to the gem on the picture. If queen Elizabeth has spherical pearls of that size they are obviously cultured ones, which didn't exist at the time of our queen of Punt. --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:55, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

There is mother of pearl, which comes in that size. StuRat (talk) 23:34, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I didn't realise the OP put that picture there. I thought it was Shantavira being whimsical.  Card Zero  (talk) 21:51, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I see. An understandable mistake considering the OP didn't specify which queen except by the picture, and after all the off topic comments it would indeed have been difficult to ascertain whether the picture was part of the original question or some of the off topic chit chat. I still don't understand how Shantavira could mix the British queen into this, though, as it would have been obvious to him that it was a question about the queen of Punt when the picture would have been showing only with the OP. --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:55, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure that if an OP asked some question about "the Queen", and the rest of the question did not make it clear which queen was being referred to, the first response (probably from me) would be to ask which queen they were asking about. Without the picture, Shanta would have been right to ask if Elizabeth II was the queen in question, since most anglo people call her that, and this is English WP after all. But, as you say, the picture was there all along. Some say QE II is not the most attractive woman in the world. Some even go as far as calling her downright unattractive, but even they would agree that that picture does her a disservice. How strange. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 00:53, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I am not quite sure what your point is, since you just seem to repeat what I already stated: The picture was posted with the OP, so it was quite clear at that time who the question concerned, but the following off topic banter muddied it up, making it more difficult for people wanting to provide serious answers to discern which royalty the question was actually about. --Saddhiyama (talk) 00:58, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

What is the best website for streaming Jerry Springer episodes in Canada?

What is the best website for streaming Jerry Springer episodes in Canada? Bulkbot84 (talk) 18:52, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Please don't post the same question to more than one reference desk. RudolfRed (talk) 23:09, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

US Savings Bond

We have a series EE US Savings Bond issued in May 1992. The article about savings bonds says "Series EE bonds reach maturity (double in value) 20 years from issuance though they continue to earn interest for a total of 30 years. Interest accrues monthly and is paid when the holder cashes the bond. For bonds issued before May 2005 the rate of interest is recomputed every six months at 90% of the average five-year Treasury yield for the preceding six months."

What I want to know is when does the interest go down - is it recomputed after 20 years or after 30 years? The website www.treasurydirect.gov/BC/SBCPrice lists it at getting 4.00%. Is it still getting 4% and will it still get that until it is 30 years old? Bubba73 19:39, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

It could go down at any time. However, savings bonds are supposed to encourage people to save, which is why it is paying 4% which is much more than 90% of "the average five-year Treasury yield for the preceding six months" (which has been about 0.5%). Since bonds issued in 1985 are still paying 4%, you are at the mercy of some Office of Management and Budget official who could probably cut it down to 0.45% at any time over the next decade, but I strongly suspect will keep it high. I bet you never thought that bond would be paying five times the commercial bank and credit union certificate of deposit rates. 207.224.43.139 (talk) 00:58, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

The government has at least one strong incentive not to lower that rate too much. It would result in many people cashing in their bonds and that would force the government to refinance its debt as it doesn't exactly have the surplus funds lying around. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 01:21, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

If it refinances from 4% down to .45%, isn't that better for the government (ie: taxpayers?). What's wrong with needing to refinance when rates are low? Asked another way: why is there incentive to keep the 4% debt? RudolfRed (talk) 01:27, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

When the prevailing interest rates are low the lending/saving rate is also low. Although the nominal rates might be 0.5% few people are happy to lend at that rate so the government has to offer them a higher rate through instruments like the EE Bond, unless the treasury just wants to sell it's bonds to the lender of last resort. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 01:38, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. The personal savings rate has been declining since a bump during the recession already back down to 2003-5 rates of 3-4%. The personal savings rate means a lot less than it did before Social Security was pegged to the Consumer Price Index in the early 1970s, but it's still a pretty big deal, and the government doesn't want to see it get below 2% again for sure. It's that kind of attention to detail (at the expense of the employment ratio, poverty, and child homelessness) which earns the U.S. such low, negative real interest rates. At the bond rates the U.S. has been getting, it is almost criminally negligent to not call in and roll over all the old debt. (Perhaps by issuing platinum coins.) But they won't try to call in Savings Bonds because of the low personal savings rate. 207.224.43.139 (talk) 02:38, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Visa Card

I want to ask how secure is Shopping in mall via Visa Card ? During the checkout the clerk generally asks to swipe the card and sign on the paper. They never asks to enter your PIN in machine. Also, Signature issue is nonsense as I had used my signature on my brother's card once.So, what my point is someone could easily pickpocket my wallet and go to nearest mall and buy Gold with it and then sell gold to get cash. This was the PIN of ATM is useless. GiantBluePanda (talk) 21:19, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Which country is this? In the UK, all retail outlets require use of a PIN for this reason. - Jarry1250  21:30, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

It is Sri Lanka GiantBluePanda (talk) 21:34, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Credit card companies and banks agree that security is an issue. It would seem that Sri Lanka simply may not have adopted the new standards. See Smart card for more info on an attempt at a solution and Credit_card#Security_problems_and_solutions for more general issues on credit card security. Mingmingla (talk) 22:20, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

The situation is the same in the US. Only some require a signature, but none of them seem to actually bother to verify it. A few gas stations require your ZIP code, but that's probably in the same stolen wallet as the credit card. Online retailers require an additional 3 or 4 digit code, but it's printed on the back of the same stolen credit card. StuRat (talk) 23:34, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the situation where you are, but in Australia if someone makes a fraudulent purchase with your card it's the issuer's problem, not the card holder's. You can organise a chargeback with the card issuer and it then becomes the vendor's problem for not having checked the signature. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 23:59, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

In Canada, the signature on the back of the card is not there for authentication purposes. It's there to confirm that the cardholder has agreed to the terms under which the card was issued. A business is not legally allowed to accept an unsigned card because it's not valid until it's signed, and if they do neither the cardholder nor the issuing bank is responsible for anything charged on that card. It's very common for parents to give their kids their credit cards, and it's not at all uncommon for the signatures not to match. Nowadays, though, the PIN system takes care of that and nobody has to sign - which is of course safer, since it's not likely any random pickpocket will know Dad's PIN unless he's foolish enough to write it on the card. --NellieBly (talk) 06:40, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

So in the pre-PIN days, there was no attempt to authenticate transactions? I was surprised when I was in the US recently that they didn't do anything to authenticate transactions there either. In the UK, it is only recently that it has been possible to make small transactions without authentication, through contactless cards. --Tango (talk) 00:36, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

In a lot of places, you have to show ID to use a credit card, particularly if the use is suspicious or unusual (buying gold would qualify, to get back to the original question). This was the case before PIN numbers as well. And you are expected to report a lost or stolen card as soon as possible. These numbers have been tracked by computers for decades now, so a stolen card has a very short lifespan before the user is identified as using a stolen card. --Xuxl (talk) 10:08, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

July 29

Boat identification

Yesterday I was at a local craft fair. There was a woman there who had, among other things, some pictures of boats. I don't know where she took them and I realize that I should have asked to narrow the search. The boats had long thin beams on both the bow and stern that were nearly 2/3 the length of the boats themselves. They seemed to be a type of fishing boat but I can't be certain since the picture was taken from a ways away. On one of the boats, I could see that there were lines strung through a pulley that was at the end of one of the beams and the lines came back to the main portion of the boat. This made me think that maybe lines with hooks or some type of net could be attached to the lines on the pulleys. The boats themselves looked fairly simplistic, hardly more than canoes. So does anyone have any idea what type of boats these were? And what the beams are used for? Dismas| 07:11, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Like this? The overhead beams are for stringing, pulling, and hoisting nets and lines. It's an inexpensive fishing boat typical of the Indian Ocean. 207.224.43.139 (talk) 07:36, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Not like the picture the IP mentioned. The beams pointed straight out the bow and stern. They were parallel with the long axis of the boat. Dismas| 09:11, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

I would guess they are doing a type of drift netting, where instead of using the boat at one end of the net and a buoy at the other, they use the two ends of the extensions of the boat to hold both ends of the net, which then runs under the boat. This would prevent other boats from hitting their net. StuRat (talk) 07:42, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

? Bowsprit and boomkin?—eric 14:51, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

David Miscavige's wife

Is there anyone investigating the "disappearance" of David Miscavige's wife? Has there ever been an official investigation? 69.62.243.48 (talk) 18:16, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Is she actually missing? The article has "disappeared" in quotes which I read as meaning she didn't really disappear. RudolfRed (talk) 20:54, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

She has been missing for years. No one outside of the Church knows where she is, or even if she's still alive. Those within the Church just say she's fine, but she hasn't appeared in public for years. 69.62.243.48 (talk) 21:25, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Unless there is actually some evidence that they are lying and she isn't really just in seclusion, then there isn't likely to be a police investigation. The police generally expect someone to report a crime before they investigate it, rather than starting investigations based on vague rumours. The press might investigate it, though - internal disputes with the Church of Scientology are quite a popular topic for investigative journalists. --Tango (talk) 00:32, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, he's a gun enthusiasts and ] a control freak. I'd be suspicious, too. I would expect her family to file a missing persons report, if she is really missing, unless they are also controlled by Scientology. StuRat (talk) 04:58, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

This thread is problematic and the comment directly above is a clear BLP violation.

Hatting performed by User:Medeis, who failed to sign. StuRat (talk) 21:54, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

For the love of God, Medeis, read the article. It's a fact that Michelle Miscavige publicly disappeared. If you have issue with a particular comment, hat or delete the comment. The OP's question is fine. Someguy1221 (talk) 23:46, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

That was not the reason for the closure. If we closed a discussion about the sexual orientation of a dictator we can certainly close unattributed speculation about an unconvicted and uncharged private individual. μηδείς (talk) 02:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

The fact that he's a gun enthusiast is in one of the sources for the article "Miscavige, a firearms enthusiast, introduced Cruise to skeet shooting at the compound..." , as is his need to control those around him: "Miscavige’s official title is chairman of the board of the Religious Technology Center, but he dominates the entire organization. His word is absolute, and he imposes his will even on some of the people closest to him." . StuRat (talk) 23:58, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I didn't dispute he's a gun enthusiast. You're calling him a "control freak" is a bit of synthesis on your part. I have attributed it to you, so it should not be a problem. Let's stay away from giving legal advice to his wife's relatives as well. μηδείς (talk) 02:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

My question was not a BLP violation, unless you think the article itself violates BLP. 69.62.243.48 (talk) 23:40, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

No, I did not think the question itself was a BLP violation or I would have acted sooner. StuRat's unattributed and unsupported implications were. That seems to have been taken care of. μηδείς (talk) 02:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

July 30

Olympic opening ceremony

Since they always do Greece first and the host country last, what do they do when Greece is the host country? --108.206.7.65 (talk) 00:20, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

During the 2004 Summer Olympics opening ceremony in Athens, Greece, only the Greek flag led the parade. The Greek team then marched in last after all the other nations. Zzyzx11 (talk) 00:26, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

(ec) From Olympic Games ceremony: Traditionally (starting at the 1928 Summer Olympics), Greece enters first, due to its historical status as the progenitor of the Olympics, while the host nation marches last. In the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens, the Greek flag led the parade, while the Greek team marched in last, as the host nation. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 00:28, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Parabolic TV speakers for the hearing impaired?

Five or ten years ago I saw brief but infomercial type advertisements for the mail order purchase of parabolic speakers for the TV for people who are hard of hearing. They were described as "directional speakers" to overcome background noise. A friend of mine could benefit from these; watching TV with him is painful due to the volume he needs. I have searched and searched, but the best I can find is either a $1499.00 speaker system at Amazon, or a plastic shell that is supposed to reflect cell phone speakers without electronic amplification. Can anyone help me find affordable (i.e., $100.00 or less) electronic parabolic loudspeakers meant for home use? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 02:44, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think those would do much good. Even if the sound were focused on him, it would still bounce off him and all around the room. The more obvious solution is headphones (or earplugs for anyone else in the room). I'm wearing headphones to watch TV right now. You could also position external speakers right by his ears. They do make directional hearing aides, too, but those are either very expensive, or junk. StuRat (talk) 02:50, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that would be a problem, since if directed at him he should hear it louder than those who hear it reflected off him. I brought a documentary for him to watch, and while I would have been comfortable listening to it with the tv volume at 10-12, he wanted it at 16, which was just the wrong side of too loud. Hearing aids and moving the speakers closer to him are not reasonable prospects. I am quite sure of what I am looking for here. There was a product advertised in the US, but not recently to my knowledge. I am just frustrated at the results garnered for "parabolic/directional TV speaker hard/impaired hearing". μηδείς (talk) 18:07, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

This is product I saw recently advertised on TV: . However, based on the price and reviews I read, it seems to be total junk. (It's a cheap hearing aide, not parabolic speakers.) StuRat (talk) 20:22, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Here's something that might actually work, in your price range: . This is a parabolic microphone, not speakers, but has one advantage. With parabolic speakers, he would find it impossible to hear anyone else in the room, but, with this, he only needs to point it at the people to hear them. StuRat (talk) 20:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Paint Jobs of NYC-area Bridges

My question is about the paint jobs of the car and rail bridges in the NYC area. Why are so many of the bridges in New Jersey (specifically Hudson and Essex counties) painted black, while the bridges in Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx are a rainbow of different colors? I feel that black is very aesthetically displeasing for a bridge, and I'm wondering if there's a reason why the state of NJ would make that choice--perhaps black paint is cheaper, more durable, better for melting ice, etc.

As an example, I think that the Pulaski Skyway is a quite beautiful structure, but its black paintjob makes it look old and foreboding. I think a nicer color could really bring out its beauty, in the same way that the Golden Gate Bridge looks much nicer in red than it would in black.

Here's a brief sampling of the bridges to show the predominance of black in NJ.

New York:

Manhattan Bridge -- Blue

Verrazano Bridge -- Blue

Henry Hudson Bridge -- Blue

Williamsburg Bridge -- Gray

Spuyten Duyvil Bridge -- Gray

Whitestone Bridge -- Gray

Park Avenue Bridge -- Gray

Queensboro Bridge -- Beige

Willis Avenue Bridge -- Beige

Hell Gate Bridge -- Red

Roosevelt Island Bridge -- Red

Macombs Dam Bridge -- White

New Jersey:

Newark Bay Bridge -- Blue

Upper Hack Lift -- Blue

Lower Hack Lift -- Black

Arthur Kill Bridge -- Black

Wittpenn Bridge -- Black

Portal Bridge -- Black

Pulaski Skyway -- Black

PATH Lift Bridge -- Black

Lincoln Highway Bridge -- Black

Harsimus Branch Lift -- Black

Lehigh Valley Railroad Bridge -- Black

Dock Bridge -- Black

I have always felt that this inclination toward black bridges in New Jersey does nothing but add to outsiders' negative opinions of New Jersey. Why would the state of NJ choose to mar what could be beautiful looking bridges? There must be a reason--does anyone know? 138.16.42.247 (talk) 03:13, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Although I don't have a source, it was common practice to paint rail bridges black in steam locomotive days because the coal soot would foul any other color quickly and unevenly, making it look even worse. Many of the Jersey bridges are rail bridges, while few of the Manhattan bridges are, since most rail access to Manhattan is by tunnel. I can't say why road bridges were painted black, though precedent and general inertia may have a role. Acroterion (talk) 13:37, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

No idea, but the Forth Bridge near Edinburgh is painted red and has been that colour for over 100 years. Presumably soot from steam trains wasn't much of a problem for the majority of the bridge's life, though for a while the permanent maintenence crew supposedly started repainting again immediately they had finished the previous repaint. Astronaut (talk) 17:24, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

First off, you are making a very NY-centric judgment of NJ based on a specific type of bridge in an extremely small portion of the state. It would be like calling Manhattan a third-world slum based on the bodegas lining Broadway as you enter Washington Heights from the George Washington Bridge. The rest of the state has no such bridges that I am aware of, although I can't speak for the Vineland, New Jersey area. The bridges crossing the Delaware, the Raritan, and the Rancocas to name a few are hardly in this class. Second, you can write Chris Cristie a letter. He seems quite the bold type to get the painting policy changed if it makes sense and he agrees with your opinion. μηδείς (talk) 18:19, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Dear μηδείς, I am a lifelong Edison NJ resident and I feel that you've missed that I clearly prefaced the discussion with " NYC Area," and even specifically named Hudson and Essex counties. Indeed, most of the bridges in the entire state do not follow this trend. I don't know what you mean by "a specific type of bridge," since I included all types of notable bridges that do not cross state boundaries in the NYC area. I think this particular area of NJ is proportionately much more influential on the opinions of non-NJ residents than elsewhere, since it is extremely well-travelled due to the Turnpike, interstates 80, 280, 78, and the numerous railroads. So I feel that my opinion is more "superficial" (in terms of just what one sees from the major transit lines) than NYC centric. Also, Acroterion, I appreciate your insightful response. Perhaps it is a relic of 100+ years ago. 138.16.113.5 (talk) 21:18, 30 July 2012 (UTC) (op)

My perspective is from West Virginia/Virginia/Maryland, and most of the old rail bridges are black in that area, particularly if they were a through-truss design that was directly exposed to soot. The Forth Bridge is offered as a counter-example, but given that painting the Forth Bridge is (axiomatically, but apparently erroneously) a never-ceasing task, keeping it red was not a problem. Most of the rail bridges I've seen have been lucky to see a coat of paint in two or three decades. Acroterion (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Is the Olympics fixed? (I.e. do people/the Mob bet on it?)

I've just been watching some fine young female gymnasts perform, and I'm struck by the way that so many of them seem very surprised by the amazing springiness of the floor mats, which sometimes visibly rise up beneath them before they take those extra steps that decide the outcome. Girl after girl seems to be doing amazingly, unprecedentedly poorly. But every once in a while one of them totally nails the performance like she's been practicing on those kind of mats for months. It occurs to me that if the officials had planned to install an extra-springy flooring, and let the right people know about it in advance, then the smart money would really have done well in any betting. But, I know nothing about gymnastics! ;) Am I completely off-base here? Wnt (talk) 03:40, 30 July 2012 (UTC).

I think you are, yes. The number of people who would need to be complicit in the scheme you suggest must surely be prohibitive. At a minimum, you'd need the venue manager, the builders, the judges, the gymnast and the coach all to be on side. That's just too many people who would need to be trusted to keep this a secret - even if you could bribe someone to keep their mouth shut, the number of people you'd need to pay would probably mean that the profit made on the bets would not be enough to ensure a profit after paying out on backhanders.

The 'big noise' at the moment in underhand betting is Spot-fixing, as seen in football and particularly in cricket. This is where 'spot bets' are taken on certain events happening - in cricket they might bet on the number of no-balls bowled by a particular bowler in a certain over. Obviously these things can be pre-arranged, and have the benefit of only involving the player himself and possibly his captain. It might be possible for something similar to be arranged in gymnastics - maybe a certain number of mistakes or taking a tumble at a pre-determined point. I don't think there's any evidence for that happening, but there is enough concern about spot-fixing at the Olympics as a whole for the UK to set up a dedicated task force to investigate any unconventional betting patterns. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:51, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Medical education

In India, students above the age of 25 are not permitted to join medical courses like MBBS whereas other professions like law permit new entrants to join the profession at any age. Why is there a dichotomy here? Is there any age restriction for entry into the medical profession in other countries?

If they put medical interns through the same hellish hours they do in the US, they might want them to be young and healthy just to keep them from dropping dead. StuRat (talk) 05:00, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

In the UK there were formerly age limits at some medical schools but this is no longer the case (I suspect it's illegal) and there are now significant numbers of mature medical students. It's still rare - it's a longer course than most degrees, it costs a lot of money, and it's hard to get a loan if you're older or have a previous degree. And the career structure involves many years of training even after you graduate, unlike being e.g. a lawyer where you may be qualified after 3 years' study and training. In certain countries the government may fund training for doctors in the expectation that people will work for many years in state medical facilities, so it would make sense to pick young people who're going to work for longer. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:07, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

1940 picture packard contest

In 1940 the Packard car company had a world wide photo contest. first prize was a new car, other prizes were cash and 100 bronze medals and 50 silver medals. I have been unable to get any information about the medals in this contest. I have come across one of the silver medals and am trying to find out what these medals were made of (silver content) and who manufactured these medals. I have contacted several medal dealers and even Packard itself and no one seems to have any information about this contest or the medals. There are several advertisements available (via e-bay and the internet) showing the ad flyers and mentioning the prizes, but that is about all I have been able to locate. Any information about this medal would be appreciated. Since it was one of 50 and I have not been able to find another anywhere else, I am curious if this is the only one left?

Thanks for any assistance, Jeff — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goodoldboy911 (talk • contribs) 08:22, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

You contacted Packard ? It must have been a long time back, since they haven't existed since the 1960's. StuRat (talk) 08:39, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Here is a link to some of Jeff's previous research on the subject. I hope it's ok to post this, Jeff, since it lets the volunteers here know what information you already have. Honestly, from reading the answers on that link, my feeling would be that the information isn't going to be found online and that a certain amount of offline legwork will be needed to get anything else, but maybe another volunteer will have a bright idea. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 08:58, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Quotes

"Learn from others' mistakes because you will not live long enough to make them all yourself" - Anonymous

Here "because you will not live long enough to make them all yourself" - what does it actually mean? Thanks--180.234.24.99 (talk) 17:47, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

If you learn by 2 people's mistakes, you have 2 people's lifetimes of experience rather than just one (yours). It's along the lines of "two heads are better than one". --TammyMoet (talk) 18:02, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

It could also be taken to mean "If you don't learn from the mistakes of others, you may not survive making those mistakes on your own". That is, some mistakes you can only make once, since they result in your death. StuRat (talk) 20:04, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

There have been countless trillions of mistakes made by human beings, and there are countless zillions more to come (not all unique, of course). No individual could possibly hope to repeat every mistake made by other people, because their lifespan is not long enough. So, rather than even trying to do that, better to observe what mistakes others make and learn from them, leaving you free to make an entire lifetime's worth of your own mistakes that nobody else has ever made before, or you're not aware they've done so. Remember, the more mistakes you make, the more you learn, so get cracking, there isn't a moment to lose. To delay doing this would be a mistake, so make that your first mistake and your first learning. Then, when you're sufficiently rested from all that procrastination, you can roll your sleeves up and get seriously stuck in to mistake making. Maybe I'll publish "A Creed for the Risk-Averse": To spend your life avoiding mistakes would be the greatest mistake of all (almost certainly not original).-- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 20:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Possibly apocryphal quote from possibly apocryphal public figure: "If I could live life over again, I'd make the same mistakes, only I'd start sooner." ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:00, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Nose cards?

I remember that in the middle to late 1980s, there were "nose cards". These were collectable playing card -sized cards with a hole in them. On one side was a picture of a human or an animal, with the hole in the place of its nose, on the other side was a textual explanation. The idea was to wear these cards on your own nose, so it would form a three-dimensional nose on the two-dimensional figure. Does anyone remember what these cards were actually called, and where did they come from? JIP | Talk 19:22, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

July 31

Race and LGBT

Why are most LGBT people white? --108.206.7.65 (talk) 02:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

First prove that they are. (Note that they may appear to be, since many non-white cultures punish those who admit to being LGBT, resulting in more "in the closet" behavior.) StuRat (talk) 02:17, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

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