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Revision as of 04:49, 12 September 2012

Vietnam Start‑class Mid‑importance

This article is part of WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.VietnamWikipedia:WikiProject VietnamTemplate:WikiProject VietnamVietnam Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that a map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Vietnam may be able to help!

Requested move: → Buon Ma Thuot

It has been proposed in this section that Buôn Ma Thuột be renamed and moved to Buon Ma Thuot. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Buôn Ma Thuột city → Buon Ma Thuot –, per New York Times, Associated Press, GeoNames, VOV Online, Saigon Times, Viet Nam News, and the book Coffee Culture Destinations and Tourism. Britannica and Rough Guide give the variant "Buon Me Thuot". "Buon Ma Thuot" gets 121 post-1980 English-language GBook hits, "Buon Me Thuot" 46. "Buôn Ma Thuột city" gets zilch, although "Buôn Ma Thuột" does appear in one book, Education in Vietnam. On Highbeam for the last two years, it is 30 for "Buon Ma Thuot", 6 for "Buon Me Thuot", and zero for "Buôn Ma Thuột". Kauffner (talk) 17:45, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Survey

• Oppose per WP:EN "Turkish for Turkish rivers". Buon Ma Thuot "City" gets 165 results in GBooks, but that isn't the real issue here. The issue is that en.wp uses full Vietnamese spelling in Vietnamese place names; we have had 3 RMs on Vietnamese geo names on Talk:Cà Mau 2010, 2011, 2012 all with supporting the same approach that en.wp take to every other Latin alphabet language place names. A recent RfC had a significant majority for full use of Vietnamese spelling 23 vs 16, or 23 vs 9-11 removing canvassing. Doing searches in books that don't have Vietnamese/Polish/whatever fonts is completely meaningless, "Bahar Ic-Caghaq" (Malta) and "Hagatna" (Guam) ‎will always get more results than "Baħar Iċ-Ċagħaq" and "Hagåtña" ‎but en.wp's editors have decided to represent Latin alphabet names correctly. Unless there's a community decision to make Vietnamese the one exception, and so far there hasn't been - the decisions have been to treat Vietnamese towns like Czech, Polish, Polynesian or Maltese town names. Or indeed per WP:EN "Turkish for Turkish rivers". In ictu oculi (talk) 02:11, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

The relevant guideline is NCGN, which says to follow sources like other encyclopedias, GBooks, and major media, i.e. the kind of sources I gave in the nomination. Kauffner (talk) 02:56, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Kauffner, you've made your proposal, I've made my oppose. Now let's not fill this WP:RM with pingpong chat please, let's both let others say something. WP:NCGN says Vietnam "A naming convention is under discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Vietnam." 5 July 2010 which relates to Talk:Cà Mau 6 July 2010. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:09, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to connect the note at NCGN to the discussion at Talk:Cà Mau. There have been various RMs on the issue Vietnamese diacritics with various results, for example Talk:Vo_Chi_Cong or Talk:Bun cha. The status of this RM is equal to that of any previous RM. Kauffner (talk) 03:46, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

• Comment Why was this page moved during the midst of ongoing move discussions on this exact topic, for which you are both involved? In ictu oculi, you must have known that your long list of moves would not be uncontroversial; How many did you move 100!?! (Special:Log/In_ictu_oculi) Kauffner, I see your edit history is no better on this subject. Let me make this clear so that there is no confusion, name changes of Vietnamese diacritics are not uncontroversial moves. So stop moving them, any of them, on that basis without some sort of community (e.g. WP:VIETNAM naming convetion agreement.--Labattblueboy (talk) 04:49, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

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