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Revision as of 07:30, 10 November 2012

Re: conduct

Hey Fordx12, I truly appreciate you bringing this to light on my page. I cannot overemphasize the importance of having a balanced wiki lldm; I try to do my best to ensure this page is not a publicity page. I have a feeling this irks the lldm faithful like yourself, but rest assured I am not trying to be antagonistic in any way nor by any means. If you decide to seek an editor review, then that is your prerogative. But for the meantime, I feel that the way for us to go is to maintain good faith in the volunteering we do for lldm wikipedia. For the past few months now you have ambitiously tried deleting the same information on the controversy section using a multitude of excuses. So please know that this is not a pattern of good faith editing. Lets not turn this into another personal issue, because I certainly don't plan on it. Know that I am here to help in every way possible, and that I'm here to stay as a curator for lldm wiki. As I mentioned before, our disagreements are the simple sign of progress. Have a wonderful day. RidjalA (talk) 05:51, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Regarding Quotation in "Women of La Luz Del Mundo"

Here's what I contributed to lldm wiki: "However, Patricia Fortuny remarks that "the church explicitly denies such roles exist for women for fear that either women may be seen as equals to males, or that it may appear as an "absence of subordination" in women."

Using Bing Translator, for the sake of neutrality, here are the following passages from Fortuny I used to quote (the words in brackets I added for grammatical clarity):

Passage 1 “No obstante, cada vez que he mencionado en presencia de creyentes (de ambos sexos) este servicio como la oración de las mujeres, todas y todos han negado que sea un servicio religioso femenino o para las mujeres; me corrigen diciendo que se trata simplemente de la oración de las nueve de la mañana” (pg 139)

Translates to:

“However, everytime I have mentioned in the presence of believers of both sexes this service as the prayer of women, all have denied is a female religious service or to women; I , saying that it is simply the of nine o'clock in the morning”

Passage 2 “los miembros niegan la existencia real de un servicio religioso que ha sido creado ad hoc para la población femenina de las congregaciones…” (pg 140)

Translates to:

“members deny the existence of a religious service that has been created ad hoc for the female population of the congregations…”

Passage 3 "Yo deduzco de esto que, si la membresía considerara este culto como femenino, le estarían otorgando autoridad a las mujeres en el marco religioso o eclesiástico del ritual, y esto entonces las pondría en un plano de igualdad o de ausencia de subordinación frente a los hombres." (pg 140)

Translates to:

"I infer from this that, if the membership considers this as female , you would be giving authority to women in the religious or ecclesiastical framework of the ritual, and this then put on a plane of equality or absence of subordination to men."

Therefore, in what I translated, I don't believe there is anything blatantly wrong nor usurped (or "bad", as you stated; perhaps it is "bad" for you in that it contradicts the "pro-women" perspective you were trying to achieve, but as you already know, this is not PR page).

Feel free to ask for another third opinion if necessary. RidjalA (talk) 03:30, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again for your concern. In the link you provided, it states that you may closely paraphrase if it's hard to rewrite in your own words. But also consider that there's a catch to it:

"...closely paraphrasing extensively from a non-free source may be a copyright problem."

Even if they were done in good faith, your recent edits can not remain as they are for the time being. They'll have to be removed or rewritten in your own words.

As to your question regarding why I publish in the controversy section, to best answer your question it is best if we ask "why should you care to know?" It's a legitimately profound question. Let me briefly explain:

I'm questioning as Fortuny mentions, "the contradictions between practices and official rhetoric" of La Luz Del Mundo (pg 137). What the "Controversy" section is, really, it is a section where all of these contradictions come together (there's still plenty more that hasn't been publicized yet, like the special privileges afforded to the royal family descendants, I wont go into detail but it entails exclusion and immunity from the doctrine SJF preaches). By finding out about these contradictions, it would be up to the responsible parties to mend them. So "why should you know?"... Simple. Knowing where the church gaffes is crucial in knowing how to make the church better.

Who knows, perhaps the next of kin will sell their mansions and exotic car collections and advocate for leaders to live in more modest terms, and really practice what they preach.

Truly know that I mean no harm, and that I in no way seek to question your faith. I look forward to our collaboration, and I hope I answered your questions. Message me any time.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" -George Orwell.

RidjalA (talk) 01:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

__________________________________________________

Thanks for that message, that's very kind of you. Let me know how I could be of any help.

"The seeker of truth should be humbler than the dust" ~Gandhi

RidjalA (talk) 22:14, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse question

Hi Fordx12 and belated welcome to Misplaced Pages! I have replied to your question at the Teahouse. In my view, it may be beneficial if you re-word your most recent contribution to Talk:La Luz del Mundo, just so it doens't antagonize the other editor unnecessarily. In that way, you'll have more chance of a productive discussion. All the best! Sionk (talk) 19:48, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I am a little confused as to which contribution I should edit. Could you tell me in which of the two sections so that I may edit them? Thanks for the advice. Fordx12 (talk) 20:49, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

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September 2012

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Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

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Regarding comment on user conduct

Regarding the Comment on user conduct for editor RidjalA, I have responded to the applicable policies field, and the Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute field. I have also added text explaining the links I added to the Evidence of disputed behavior field. I was in hurry and I hope I followed the guidelines correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajaxfiore (talk • contribs) 22:03, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

I have added text to the Attempts by certifier 2 here Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/RidjalA#Attempts_by_certifier_Ajaxfiore. Perhaps it is time to inform RidjalA, if necessary. We should also revise it to ensure we are following the correct procedures here Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct. Ajaxfiore (talk) 01:55, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I have looked at archived Rfc/u and believe the first few fields, Statement of the dispute, Desired outcome, Description, Evidence of disputed behavior, Applicable policies and guidelines, and Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute, should be written by both of us presenting the same issues. I believe we both agree on the following:

1. Personal attacks, trying to discredit you based on you religion, and accusing me of being a member of LLDM, accusations of sock puppetry
2. Article ownership in the form of constant edit reversions, and refusing to allow removal of unsourced content. Also wants to maintain copyrighted text.
3. Clearly bias and sweeping generalizations against church members.
4. etc.

Ajaxfiore (talk) 02:13, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I have added the following 3 categories under evidence of disputed behavior: Personal attacks, Ownership, and Bias. I think we need to rewrite a great deal of this. Ajaxfiore (talk) 02:20, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I will now take a hiatus, I have worked on the Evidence of disputed behavior section. I have incorporated everything I wrote to the 3 subsections I created. I also incorporated some of your work. I have yet to incorporate 3, 4, 6, and 7 from what you wrote. If you have time you may do this yourself. Some diffs are repeated between the 3 sections, but not inside a section, so please check the links before incorporating your writing. Have a good night. Ajaxfiore (talk) 03:46, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I believe I have finished incorporating both of our points into the appropriate sections. Feel free to remove what you wrote as it is now redundant and can be found under the bias section. Also feel free to review what I have written and inform me of any mistakes. Ajaxfiore (talk) 03:18, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I noticed you have added the following under Desired outcome

RidjalA will admit that his/her bias is a cause of these issues.

I am not sure whether this is a feasible outcome as it is akin to the forcing the user to apologize against his/her own will. See Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct/Creation#Goals_in_user_conduct_RfCs under "Some examples of impossible or ill-considered goals" Ajaxfiore (talk) 22:43, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

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Edit request

Hi there, I have added the following sentence to the La_Luz_del_Mundo article under Women in the hierarchy:

Women can serve as legal representatives of the church.

Please have a look at it. I ran into a problem translating "Representante o Apoderado Legal." I thought both were the same thing, I googled the terms but was unable to decide how to translate it. I have simply written legal representatives. Ajaxfiore (talk) 01:02, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

The translation that exists in Misplaced Pages works in that context. An "Apoderado Legal" is a proxy for the Church as a whole in the legal system. For example, an Apoderado legal can sign contracts in the name of the church. A "Representante" can only speak for the church, or act as its voice be it in newspapers or interviews. So the term "legal representatives" is adequate. Fordx12 (talk) 03:56, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

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La Luz del Mundo

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3rd Opinion for Rape Accusations in La Luz del Mundo

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