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Revision as of 03:59, 4 February 2013

Biography: Musicians Stub‑class

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Philadelphia Stub‑class Low‑importance

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Cite needed tags

Yes, that's a lot of "cite needed" tags. I've placed them because I will be attempting to source each of these "facts" in the next few days and yanking any I cannot source. Much of this article seems to be based on what someone heard from someone else. While that's a great way to find entertaining versions of local lore, it is not verifiable. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:17, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Never missed a parade?

I have now removed the tiny battleground claiming that Aqua has never missed a parade or missed three years. To state this either way, we will need a reliable source stating this. The only sources I've found are an "oral history"-style website (fails under WP:SPS) and a few sites that (based on wording) pick up the claim here. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 16:11, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Due to repeated additions of poorly sourced material to this section by an anonymous user who refused to discuss the issue, the article is now "semi" protected: Anonymous and new editors cannot edit. To include anything here (claims that they have never missed a parade, missed three years or marched in all but three then went back in a time machine to march in the three they missed), we will need a reliable source. What is a "reliable" source? Gee, thanks for asking. A complete description is available at WP:IRS. The short answer is a source that has a reputation for fact checking and accuracy. Most major newspapers (Inqy and the original Bulletin come to mind as places you might want to look) fit the bill. Area network affiliates would as well, except (as in the Fox 29 case for this issue) it is obvious they are quoting Misplaced Pages (which is a really lazy approach, IMO). I will remove this poorly sourced info again shortly. - SummerPhD (talk) 21:56, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Please do your research. The "Anonymous" editor (moi) was using The String Band Record http://www.StringBandRecord.com as the proof needed. If you had bothered to read the "Record", which is the single most reliably historical document of String Band prize, theme and prize money history, incorporating twenty years of research from (pay attention here) SIX independent Philadelphia newspapers spanning from 1902 to the present day, you would've answered your own stipulations. Yes, yes, research was culled from the Philadelphia Evening Bulletin, Inquirer, Patriot, Public Ledger, Record, Journal over a period of (originally) five years from original microfilm stored in the basement of the Samuel Paley Library, Temple University, and the Free Library of Philadelphia. Additional materials were subscribed to from GeneaologyBank.com.

The person that did all the research, Brian Maher, was a fellow music education student along with me at Temple, and the former music director/music arranger for Woodland String Band. He is now a instrumental music teacher in New Jersey, and no longer performs in the string bands. I have alerted him to our little back-n-forth about Aqua's missing three years, and he basically states that his sole responsibility in maintaining the "Record" is to not state rumors, only facts. We didn't spent too much time talking about it, but he states the following in regards to the above:

1) Every independent newspaper does not have mention of Aqua for those three years (1927 - 1929). The newspapers would ALSO mention the various other neighborhood parades around the city, and the bands performing in them, and Aqua is not mentioned in those parades as well.

2) When Brian was doing his research, he and I would frequent the 3rd floor of the Mummers' Museum on Saturdays, where Jack Cohen was the archives curator. On the way in, Jack would pick up William "Curly" Connors and bring him with him to the museum. Curly Connors was, as you know, one of the greatest Music Directors of Ferko in its glory days. Curly stated to Brian that the reason Aqua didn't put a band on the street in 1927 was because a large contingent left to join the new Woodland String Band, which marched for the first time on New Years, 1927.

3) In addition to the above, Brian, when he was in Woodland, told me that he had the opportunity on many occasions to speak with Al Nigsch, who was a teenager, and a CHARTER MEMBER of Woodland when it was founded in February of 1926. He was still alive, and would attend a few Tuesday night rehearsals throughout the year, and also provided Brian with a number of original photographs of the band that are now featured on the Woodland website. Mr. Nigsch confirmed that there was a falling out within Aqua's ranks after the 1926 parade. He does not know what the reason was, but during the summertime, Woodland gained "about thirty" musicians from Aqua's ranks, and other bands may have gained some as well.

If you want to email Brian directly (he refuses to utilize Misplaced Pages for anything, so he is not privy to what we're doing here), his email is in the beginning of the String Band Record. He was the only one that has given up his time staring at microfilm to put this document together from ORIGINAL sources, and many string band members use it religiously for what it's worth... and it's worth a lot. We kidded him at all the late nights he spent in the basement of the library at the time. We don't kid him about it anymore.

I've got no dogfight here.... as long as that "Ron" fellow in Aqua stops posting lies about his band being "the oldest continually marching string band in the mummers (they aren't) and "never having missed a parade" (they have)., then I'll be passive about the subject.

Origin of name

Again, I am unable to locate reliable sources for any of this. The band's official site merely used the text from this very article. (Obviously, we cannot use this article as a source for itself.) Other than that, the bit referring to Prohibition (but not the legend of the water toast) had been picked up by a Fox 29 blurb, but the wording made it clear it had been taken from this article or a site copying this article. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 16:15, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Notable?

Frankly, there doesn't seem to be significant coverage in independent reliable sources for Aqua. Yes, we have reliable sources putting them is the Mummers Parade and a few local events. However, we need significant coverage. I don't want to delete this, but we need sources.

For examples of articles that have sources and survived deletion attempts, please see Greater Kensington (string band), Pennsport (string band) and Adelphia (fancies). Personally, I'd like to be able to establish articles for all of the clubs. Without sources, we cannot do that.

While it is clear that Mummers clubs maintain their own histories in one way or another, I don't see many of their websites adding pages with links to press coverage. That's a bit of a shame as potential donors/patrons obviously are looking for some indication that the band isn't just a bunch of guys walking down the street once a year. Misplaced Pages articles frequently top search engine results. A solid article here is in each club's best interest. Articles on clubs certainly support articles on other clubs: Once we have articles on, say, 3/4 of the clubs, it will be far easier to argue for articles on all of the clubs.

Adding material based on what someone told you is a waste of time. We need sources. - SummerPhD (talk) 16:34, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

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