Revision as of 04:27, 17 February 2013 edit65.92.180.137 (talk)No edit summary← Previous edit | Revision as of 04:39, 17 February 2013 edit undoLittleBenW (talk | contribs)8,599 edits →Article on Mark Schilling on User:JoshuSasori |'s page: new sectionNext edit → | ||
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] has been nominated for deletion -- ] (]) 04:27, 17 February 2013 (UTC) | ] has been nominated for deletion -- ] (]) 04:27, 17 February 2013 (UTC) | ||
== Article on ] on ]'s page == | |||
I don't visit this WikiProject page all that frequently, but was surprised to see that JoshuSasori had been suddenly blocked indefinitely. I noticed that he had put together the draft of a BLP article on ], and I'd be prepared to add the few necessary citations (references)/ISBNs if it is copied or moved to article space. Mark Schilling already is mentioned many times in Misplaced Pages articles, so an article on him would meet notability requirements. I'm not sure of the best way to go about this; I realize that I could simply copy the contents from JoshuSasori's page—but the article should be properly attributed/credited to JoshuSasori, since he started it. Does anybody have any suggestions or pointers to guidelines as to how best handle this situation? ] (]) 04:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC) |
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Sisters of the Gion!?
I just noticed that this film and its remake both have "the Gion" in their titles. I'm reluctant to request moves for these articles, though, since I have been caused quite a bit of stress in the last couple of weeks over similar issues. I'm pretty sure there is no "the Gion" in real life, the studio's official website gives a different title for one of them in English, and the films are both pretty obscure outside Japan. It does appear to have been released on DVD under this title, but still...
WP:UE clearly doesn't apply here because of the conflicting sources and the obscurity of the subject matter.
elvenscout742 (talk) 03:50, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- I say leave it. If it was released under that title in English, and a reader is familiar with it, then that's the title he'll enter in the search field. It sounds funny, but that's how it was translated at the time of release. Boneyard90 (talk) 04:02, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- May I ask why does it matter?—Ryulong (琉竜) 04:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- It matters enough to ask about here (and possibly where In ictu oculi suggests below), but not enough to actively seek a move or anything, because "Sisters of the Gion" just sounds weird. I came here to see if anyone else thought so. Almost all of the Google hits for "the Gion" are in the form "the Gion Festival" or "the Gion district". I don't mind much either way, but it just looks really funny. elvenscout742 (talk) 05:01, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- It does look funny, but more importantly it looks badly sourced. The first remotely competent print source I found for the 1936 film had "Sisters of Gion" - obviously a book author with a brain and some knowledge of Japanese, rather than a[REDACTED] editor following WP:駄NAME. There are some wp editors who believe that building the encyclopedia is best served by shovelling up all the garbage out there in sports-ref-blog.com, IMDB-type sites, DVD-pirate-shop-websites and then reproducing it. I'm from the other school on that. So what I'm saying is, something like the earlier macro discussion really, is that as a project - which I'm not super-interested in, I washed my hands of Japan in the 1980s, you guys need to decide whether you want to be reproducing 駄作 from web-sources, or be こせこせ about print sources, that's all. Your project, not mine. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:22, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- It matters enough to ask about here (and possibly where In ictu oculi suggests below), but not enough to actively seek a move or anything, because "Sisters of the Gion" just sounds weird. I came here to see if anyone else thought so. Almost all of the Google hits for "the Gion" are in the form "the Gion Festival" or "the Gion district". I don't mind much either way, but it just looks really funny. elvenscout742 (talk) 05:01, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- May I ask why does it matter?—Ryulong (琉竜) 04:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
It may be dormant (?) but see polite suggestion under Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Film/Japanese cinema task force. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:29, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- If it's not your project, then why are you adding opinions and trying to influence articles or policy? Boneyard90 (talk) 12:27, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- Because it's been spilling over into WP:RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:36, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- WP:RM? WikiProject... Rhyming Mariners? Rwandan Money? Royal Marmalade? Perhaps "WP:RM" is not as commonly recognized an abbreviation as you believe. Boneyard90 (talk) 14:42, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- WP:RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, ok, yeah, it came to me a little while later. Well, then, I thank you for your suggestions, advice and encouragement; I'm sure we'll keep it in mind as we decide how to handle the present and future situations. Boneyard90 (talk) 16:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- As a long-time IIO watcher, I think I can clarify what is going on here. You see, IIO feels he has to vote against me in every RM. So whenever a Japan-related RM comes up, he is put a difficult position. The petty feuds of this project are forcing him to deal with subject matter that is clearly beneath his dignity. He knows all too well that very few aspects of this country are worthy of being be anywhere near an encyclopedia. Kauffner (talk) 00:49, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
- 人は見かけによらぬもの. If someone wants to believe this, believe it. However it's simple enough to check the current Japan-related RMs Talk:Tales of Moonlight and Rain, Talk:Torajiro Saito, Talk:Rashōmon, Talk:The Downfall of Osen#Requested move 2, Talk:Double Suicide of Sonezaki, Talk:Shōtarō Ikenami, Talk:Jūzō Itami, Talk:Ugetsu, Talk:Kindai Eiga Kyokai. I see the first 4x RMs where Kauffner "followed" me, 1x where only I posted, 3x where only Kauffner posted, 1x where neither posted.
- As regards "The petty feuds of this project are forcing him to deal with subject matter that is clearly beneath his dignity" - that's a rather unpleasant spin. What I said was, having seen similar before in other projects, it might be better if the issue between Joshu Sasori and macropneuma, Elvenscout etc/ could be sorted out at project level rather than at RM, that's all. If people think that's a bad suggestion, then it's a bad suggestion and can be ignored. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:16, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- JoshuSasori has been banned indefinitely for disruptive behaviour. This doesn't put an end to the debate over macrons, but it does mean there is now no one going around as many Misplaced Pages articles as he can making requests to move the pages from macronned to unmacronned spellings. elvenscout742 (talk) 01:10, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
- As regards "The petty feuds of this project are forcing him to deal with subject matter that is clearly beneath his dignity" - that's a rather unpleasant spin. What I said was, having seen similar before in other projects, it might be better if the issue between Joshu Sasori and macropneuma, Elvenscout etc/ could be sorted out at project level rather than at RM, that's all. If people think that's a bad suggestion, then it's a bad suggestion and can be ignored. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:16, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- 人は見かけによらぬもの. If someone wants to believe this, believe it. However it's simple enough to check the current Japan-related RMs Talk:Tales of Moonlight and Rain, Talk:Torajiro Saito, Talk:Rashōmon, Talk:The Downfall of Osen#Requested move 2, Talk:Double Suicide of Sonezaki, Talk:Shōtarō Ikenami, Talk:Jūzō Itami, Talk:Ugetsu, Talk:Kindai Eiga Kyokai. I see the first 4x RMs where Kauffner "followed" me, 1x where only I posted, 3x where only Kauffner posted, 1x where neither posted.
- As a long-time IIO watcher, I think I can clarify what is going on here. You see, IIO feels he has to vote against me in every RM. So whenever a Japan-related RM comes up, he is put a difficult position. The petty feuds of this project are forcing him to deal with subject matter that is clearly beneath his dignity. He knows all too well that very few aspects of this country are worthy of being be anywhere near an encyclopedia. Kauffner (talk) 00:49, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, ok, yeah, it came to me a little while later. Well, then, I thank you for your suggestions, advice and encouragement; I'm sure we'll keep it in mind as we decide how to handle the present and future situations. Boneyard90 (talk) 16:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- WP:RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- WP:RM? WikiProject... Rhyming Mariners? Rwandan Money? Royal Marmalade? Perhaps "WP:RM" is not as commonly recognized an abbreviation as you believe. Boneyard90 (talk) 14:42, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- Because it's been spilling over into WP:RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:36, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
It has been "Sisters of the Gion" as long as I know, and that is how it is referred to in English on the Criterion DVD, at film archives, and by most film scholars. Michitaro (talk) 18:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- @Michitaro. No worries, then that's good. The above was overstatement on my part based on the first source I encountered - Isolde Standish A New History of Japanese Cinema 2006 Page 61 best regards. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:16, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- @Michitaro. I had only ever heard of it in Japan, but bought a copy (outside Japan) early this week. Sure enough Artificial Eye has "Sisters of THE Gion" - you were right, mea culpa. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:58, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
My recent endeavors
So, my recent endeavors have been focused on improving the Yuki Saito (actress) article. I've also created Sotsugyō (Yuki Saito song), Shiroi Honō, Hatsukoi (Yuki Saito song), Jōnetsu (Yuki Saito song), Kanashimi yo Konnichi wa, and Axia (album) (and template). I'm trying to source everything as well as possible, too, and any suggestions are welcome. Maybe this will inspire the jawp editors to source the equivalent jawp articles. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 05:09, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- I upgraded the first two articles to B-class and C-class, respectively. Boneyard90 (talk) 12:57, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you for reviewing them. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 02:57, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello, help me please
I'm a 55 year old Japanese citizen with a keyboard bought in America, I don't know how to put it to write in Japanese and I don't want my article of the murderer Hiroyuki Tsuchida deleted. It may even in the interest of this project that the page not be deleted because it deals with otaku and hikikomori stuff. Can any of you please find a source in Japanese about the murder for me and give it to me? Thank you. Kotjap (talk) 14:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
- Hi, and welcome to WikiProject Japan. I have edited and made some corrections to the article you wrote. It is short, though I am sure the subject has enough notability and will not be deleted. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:55, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
- Actually, the subject fails our notability guideline for criminals and so it will most likely be deleted or redirected. Kotjap, please don't let this put you off contributing though. Once you get a hang of Misplaced Pages's notability guidelines you should be able to write things without them being deleted. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour 02:14, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Music of Japan
The article Music of Japan has been on my watchlist for years. To put it politely over that time it ranges from poorly referenced mess, to a totally unreadable mass of original research. It's also become a dumping ground for AFD mergers, which magnifies the problem. This article has been marked as top importance for this project but it appears to be totally ignored and has been in desperate need of attention for years on end. I have gone through this article and attempted a clean up a few times in the past but this is really not an area I have much knowledge in. It would be nice if someone with a bit of knowledge about the subject could craft this into an article that at least makes sense. Ridernyc (talk) 19:16, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
- I agree it's a mess. You are welcome to become an expert on the area by doing just what you suggest. I don't know that we currently have any experts (or even very knowledgeable people) in that area. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:23, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
- That said, the article does contain some good bones, so there is a base to work from. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:31, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Japanese Misplaced Pages conference in Tokyo on Sunday 3rd Feb.
Information (in Japanese only) is here. LittleBen (talk) 01:42, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
- Wow, I wish I had known about this sooner. As it is, booking flights now would be really expensive and I already have stuff planned for the weekend. 残念... — Mr. Stradivarius on tour 02:09, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
CD covers listed for deletion
Please someone look at Misplaced Pages:Files for deletion/2013 January 31, at these nominations:
- File:Shiritsu Ebisu Chūgaku - Go! Go! Here We Go! Rock Lee - Otona wa Wakatte Kurenai (Rock Lee Edition, DFCL-1921) cover.jpg
- File:Shiritsu Ebisu Chūgaku - Go! Go! Here We Go! Rock Lee - Otona wa Wakatte Kurenai (Subculture Edition, DFCL-1922) cover.jpg
- File:Shiritsu Ebisu Chūgaku - Karikeiyaku no Cinderella (Subculture Edition, DFCL-1887) cover.jpg
- File:Shiritsu Ebisu Chūgaku - Karikeiyaku no Cinderella (Limited B Edition, DFCL-1886) cover.jpg
I'm asking here cause I'm afraid that people there wouldn't understand how CDs are released in Japan and that all covers are important and there's no way to choose. Actually, at first I illustrated the articles with regular edition covers, but then I decided that, since Oricon prefers to use Limited A edition covers in the charts, I will put Limited A above. --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:13, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Shinto in popular culture
The coverage of the article Shinto in popular culture is under discussion at talk:Shinto in popular culture -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:51, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Talk:Sugawara no Takasue no musume
I posted this for RM, but not because I necessarily think it should be moved. As I'm sure everyone here is aware, no musume just means "daughter of", so what do people think about translating it? elvenscout742 (talk) 13:35, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
- I have no real opinion either way (though musume should probably be capitalized if left as is). But we should have a consistent naming policy... a quick search turned up Shunzei's Daughter and Kamo no Yasunori no musume. Also, do we know much about her life other than what comes from her memoir? If not, perhaps they should be merged (one way or the other). Cckerberos (talk) 22:33, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
- I agree that if the translation isn't adopted then we should capitalize. I don't know about having a policy though: it's such a rare concern that specifically including it in MOSJ seems ridiculous. Also, if we made it the policy to translate, then what's to stop "Murasaki, Daughter of the Master of Ceremonies" or "Sei, Wife of the Lesser Minister of the Interior"? (I'm pretty sure both of those are wrong anyway, but you get my point.) elvenscout742 (talk) 10:38, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
- I guess that would be a point against translating them, then. Look, all I'm saying is that there are a number of "no Musume" articles out there and hoping for consistency in how they're handled doesn't seem unreasonable. Cckerberos (talk) 17:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
- The nouns should all be capitalized, so it should be "...Musume". ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 03:00, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- I guess that would be a point against translating them, then. Look, all I'm saying is that there are a number of "no Musume" articles out there and hoping for consistency in how they're handled doesn't seem unreasonable. Cckerberos (talk) 17:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
- I agree that if the translation isn't adopted then we should capitalize. I don't know about having a policy though: it's such a rare concern that specifically including it in MOSJ seems ridiculous. Also, if we made it the policy to translate, then what's to stop "Murasaki, Daughter of the Master of Ceremonies" or "Sei, Wife of the Lesser Minister of the Interior"? (I'm pretty sure both of those are wrong anyway, but you get my point.) elvenscout742 (talk) 10:38, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
Recreation and Amusement Association
Can somebody fact-check this edit? Sounds like somebody has a bit of an axe to grind. Jpatokal (talk) 21:55, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- I have no intention of touching that article with anything less than an eleven-foot-pole, but the "literal translation" given should probably have a source. It is accurate, and the word for "comfort" (慰安, ian) is the same as that used to denote comfort women (慰安婦, ian-fu) used by the Imperial Japanese Army. But the translation that was already in the article at least looks like it had the same axe to grind as the above problematic edit. elvenscout742 (talk) 07:23, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- The "Okinawa" part is a violation of WP:SYNTH, as the sources cited are general discussion of US troops' poor behaviour during the war and (to a much lesser degree) the ongoing controversy about military bases in Okinawa. Neither of them mention the "Recreation and Amusement Association" or "comfort women" once, so they are invalid as sources to claim rape during the war was a contributing factor (!) to the Recreation and Amusement Association's founding, which is what the editor claims. I am removing them and requesting that a valid source be found. elvenscout742 (talk) 07:34, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Did the same for mention of rape on the European front being a contributing factor. I doubt the Japanese government in August 1945 were even aware of the numbers there, and I HIGHLY doubt the source (which I'll admit I haven't read) makes any more mention of the RAA or comfort women than the two Okinawa sources. elvenscout742 (talk) 07:47, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- The article says the RAA was founded on 28 Aug. That's the same day the first US troops landed in Japan. So there's no way that rapes of women in Kanagawa were a motivation for the RAA's founding. Cckerberos (talk) 09:12, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Did the same for mention of rape on the European front being a contributing factor. I doubt the Japanese government in August 1945 were even aware of the numbers there, and I HIGHLY doubt the source (which I'll admit I haven't read) makes any more mention of the RAA or comfort women than the two Okinawa sources. elvenscout742 (talk) 07:47, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I took a look at the article Recreation and Amusement Association and saw some ridiculous OR & POV. Per WP:BOLD, I have removed mention of the "more literal" translation and mention of "comfort women" from the text. I provide my reasons on the Talk page. About the Okinawa mention; I have also heard the "10,000 victims" figure, but am inclined to agree that it would have had little to do with the formation of the RAA. I thought it was formed partly out of the civilians' crippling propaganda-driven fear of foreigners and the military officers' knowledge of what their own troops perpetrated in the countries they invaded. So shall we remove the Okinawa paragraph? Boneyard90 (talk) 13:19, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- That edit appears to have been taken from the history of the Rape during the occupation of Japan article (which is rather questionable in its own right), and includes a fair bit of WP:SYNTH. In regards to the 10,000 figure, I spent a grim afternoon in a library late last year following up the chain of references to this - as discussed at Talk:Battle of Okinawa#10,000 rapes in three months, the figure is the estimate of a historian who didn't want to put his name to it due to the lack of supporting evidence. As such, I removed this figure from the articles in which it appeared as it clearly isn't reliable. I've re-removed it from the RARA article, along with some obvious WP:SYNTH. Nick-D (talk) 07:39, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- I removed the "1300+ rapes in Kanagawa in the first 10 days after occupation"; this was cited as "background" for the formation of the RAA. How does the rapes in the first 10 days after occupation began justify as "background" for an organization formed in the days leading up to the start of the Occupation? It might have been seen as a justification after the formation, but we don't have a source for that. Boneyard90 (talk) 08:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed - while the source does contain that figure, from memory it doesn't argue that it lead to the establishment of the RAA. Nick-D (talk) 09:43, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- I removed the "1300+ rapes in Kanagawa in the first 10 days after occupation"; this was cited as "background" for the formation of the RAA. How does the rapes in the first 10 days after occupation began justify as "background" for an organization formed in the days leading up to the start of the Occupation? It might have been seen as a justification after the formation, but we don't have a source for that. Boneyard90 (talk) 08:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Edit-only editor
As one can gather above, there is an on-going discussion at Talk:Recreation and Amusement Association. Consensus and reliability of sources is being hammered out, steadily and amicably. However, one editor, User:RoppongiHickey, continues to make sweeping changes, removing sourced info and replacing information considered irrelevant by consensus (like the Okinawa rape figure, discussed above). I have left a comment on the editor's talk page, requesting participation in the discussion and that the editor refrain from further major edits while the subject is being discussed. I'm requesting admin support, in case the edits continue or become more disruptive. Thank you. Boneyard90 (talk) 20:29, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Kozukata
Hey what does everyone think about this page I started? I couldn't think of a good way to put the information in the Morioka, Iwate article, so I created a new one. The existence of Category:Former place names indicates that it at least has a right to exist, but I'm really not sure how to expand it. Apparently the historical boundaries of "Kozukata" were different from the present-day "Morioka", but ... anyone think of a reasonable way to merge it into the main article? Or think it should be kept? elvenscout742 (talk) 07:55, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Citation question
I couldn't find a noticeboard for this, but I figured I'd get an answer here pretty quickly. The article The Diary of Lady Murasaki currently uses a nice Harvard-ish style for its references. However, its bibliography contains two books written by Donald Keene and published in 1999. I own one of them, so I can check which is which quite easily, but at present all the inline citations of him (I'm counting 14) are at least superficially ambiguous. I know for a fact that the diary is not discussed on page numbers in the 40s in Seeds in the Heart (I'm pretty sure that's the Kojiki or the Man'yōshū), so most of them are obviously the other one, but still. Anyone know a good way of fixing this? elvenscout742 (talk) 06:28, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if I'm understanding your question correctly, but when two works are published by the same author in the same year, you append lower case letters in order of publication date to the publication year to differentiate. So, in this case, Travelers of a Hundred Ages (published May 15) would be Keene (1999a) and Seeds in the Heart (published October 15) would be Keene (1999b). Cckerberos (talk) 11:42, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- You might be able to work out which one was which by going through the page history. Wikiblame can help you find the right revisions faster than you would be able to by hand. — Mr. Stradivarius 12:33, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- Haven't checked, but I believe User:Truthkeeper88 is to "blame" for this great article including the references. bamse (talk) 23:54, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- I suspected Truthkeeper's "guilt" on this issue from the start. Just like that editor to create a great article with proper references.
- Seriously, though, it doesn't look like the page cites Seeds in the Heart even once. I'll look into that a bit later. elvenscout742 (talk) 03:56, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
- Haven't checked, but I believe User:Truthkeeper88 is to "blame" for this great article including the references. bamse (talk) 23:54, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Dakimakura
There's an edit dispute at Dakimakura (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) about the use of the photo file:Dakimakura.jpg -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 08:18, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Women's History Month is in March
Hey guys, are we doing anything for WikiWomen's History Month next month? elvenscout742 (talk) 08:17, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Japanese American Veterans Association
You are invited to join the discussion at WP:RSN#Japanese American Veterans Association. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 07:28, 8 February 2013 (UTC)Template:Z48
Discussion on Meta regarding WebCite service
Please come participate in this discussion: meta:WebCite. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:59, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Jirō Shirasu
I just created an article about Jirō Shirasu. I think he should be famous enough for inclusion - for example he's in this list of 100 significant Japanese people in history ja:週刊日本の100人 But I'm sure the article I started could do with some improvement if anyone is interested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsm77 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
1912 in the Republic of China
1912 in the Republic of China has been proposed to be renamed 1912 in Taiwan, as Taiwan was part of Japan in 1912, I thought I'd let you know; see talk:2011 in the Republic of China for the discussion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 22:49, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Daisaku Ikeda
Daisaku Ikeda heads a large Buddhist organization. The article on him is long, poor (in my opinion), getting longer, and hardly getting better. The participation of one or two more editors with taste and stamina would be most welcome. Or indeed half a dozen more editors. (I've kept an eye on the article myself for some time, but know little about Buddhism, etc, so am constrained.) ¶ This is a cross-post; a few seconds ago I added it to WikiProject Buddhism. -- Hoary (talk) 15:16, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Order of family name and given name for Noh and Kabuki actors
Some time ago, I started the article Hideo Kanze (a Noh actor). I saw on my watchlist the article had been moved to Kanze Hideo. I reverted it, and questioned the editor who had moved the page, as it seemed to be in contravention of the guideline at WP:JATITLE with states "For a modern figure—a person born after the beginning of the Meiji period (January 1, 1868 onward for our purposes)—always use the Western order of given name + family name in Latin script, and Japanese style family name+<space>+given name in Japanese script." The editor (who is Japanese by the way) replied that "Because these names are the names to affect traditional culture (Kabuki and Noh) in Japan, the one where a family name is before it is good." I am no expert on Japan by any means, so I'm hoping project members can give their thoughts on this... --Canley (talk) 03:49, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with the other editor, but you're correct. The MOS doesn't include any exceptions that I can see. Cckerberos (talk) 04:23, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
- If I recall correctly, MOSJ used to specifically highlight Edogawa Rampo as an exception to the "modern Japanese should have their name in western order" rule. I actually brought this up earlier and didn't get any response, but it seems counter-intuitive that we have to use western order for people even if they have never been referred to that way in English sources. Anyway, Ichikawa Raizō VIII is another obvious exception to the rule: with Kabuki and Noh actors (as far as I can tell -- drama is the one area of classical JLit about which I know almost nothing), their full names -- not just family names -- are often "inherited", and so changing the order for modern actors in the line hurts continuity with older actors of the same name. I am not entirely sure if this applies in the case of Mr. Kanze, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. elvenscout742 (talk) 04:58, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
- I don't agree with the other eitor. As far as I know, the family name + given name format is only applied to the traditionally used stage names like Ichikawa Danjūrō for consistency. See also Ichikawa Danjūrō XII. Hideo Kanze was his real name and he didn't use a traditional stage name. So Hideo Kanze is the correct article name. Oda Mari (talk) 05:20, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I now disagree with Shikai shaw as well (the article didn't make it clear if it was a traditional stage name -- although "Hideo" should have tipped me off). I don't think there is any logic to the "names are the names to affect traditional culture (Kabuki and Noh) in Japan" argument under the current MOS rules, although I would probably support a proposition to amend the MOS that way. (There appear to be almost as many reliable sources in English and other European languages that give his name as "Kanze Hideo" as "Hideo Kanze", and if one factored in Japanese-language reliable sources there is no competition.) elvenscout742 (talk) 06:11, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the input, very helpful. I have reverted the page move on Hideo Kanze again, but the "stage name" guideline makes sense and I'm happy for the other pages moved by Shikai shaw to remain or to be moved back as family name first. --Canley (talk) 05:50, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I now disagree with Shikai shaw as well (the article didn't make it clear if it was a traditional stage name -- although "Hideo" should have tipped me off). I don't think there is any logic to the "names are the names to affect traditional culture (Kabuki and Noh) in Japan" argument under the current MOS rules, although I would probably support a proposition to amend the MOS that way. (There appear to be almost as many reliable sources in English and other European languages that give his name as "Kanze Hideo" as "Hideo Kanze", and if one factored in Japanese-language reliable sources there is no competition.) elvenscout742 (talk) 06:11, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
- I don't agree with the other eitor. As far as I know, the family name + given name format is only applied to the traditionally used stage names like Ichikawa Danjūrō for consistency. See also Ichikawa Danjūrō XII. Hideo Kanze was his real name and he didn't use a traditional stage name. So Hideo Kanze is the correct article name. Oda Mari (talk) 05:20, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
- If I recall correctly, MOSJ used to specifically highlight Edogawa Rampo as an exception to the "modern Japanese should have their name in western order" rule. I actually brought this up earlier and didn't get any response, but it seems counter-intuitive that we have to use western order for people even if they have never been referred to that way in English sources. Anyway, Ichikawa Raizō VIII is another obvious exception to the rule: with Kabuki and Noh actors (as far as I can tell -- drama is the one area of classical JLit about which I know almost nothing), their full names -- not just family names -- are often "inherited", and so changing the order for modern actors in the line hurts continuity with older actors of the same name. I am not entirely sure if this applies in the case of Mr. Kanze, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. elvenscout742 (talk) 04:58, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Requested Article Class Reassessment
Konichiwa WikiProject Japan Members.
Could someone please get around to making a reassessment of the class of Sonic Colors? The Talk page states that the article requires a check against WikiProject Japan's B Class Criteria. Thank you. MIVP - (Can I Help?) (Maybe a bit of tea for thought?) 10:38, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Japanese-Jewish Common Ancestor Theory
I just came across this funny article that presents a remote fringe theory in the words of the theory's proponents, but never actually points out that no serious historian buys it. I really wanted to divide the article into sections (one for each quotation) and add the sentence "However, this view has not achieved mainstream accepts among scholars of either Jewish or Japanese history."
However, I don't actually have a source by a credible historian that even acknowledges this viewpoint, so I can't actually provide a source for that statement. Could someone with more expertise in this area take a look at it? Thanks!
elvenscout742 (talk) 07:22, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- Have you only brought the knowledge of this article here? Because there may be more knowledgable historians at WP:JEW or people better at dealing with fringe theories at WP:FRINGE who can help.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:32, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- I took this to WikiProject Israel (the other project that covers the article, although I don't know why) and WikiProject Jewish History (which seemed appropriate, but their forum isn't as lively as ours). Israel told me I'd probably be better asking at WikiProject Judaism. I'll probably go there now. elvenscout742 (talk) 07:50, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- I always liked this fringe theory. But I don't think you're going to have much luck finding something serious acknowledging the theory, since it's so obviously ridiculous. Someone with access to JSTOR might be able to get something from http://www.jstor.org/stable/20019954. It appears to include a mention of Marvin Tokayer, the rabbi who wrote the most popular book on this in Japan. Cckerberos (talk) 08:05, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- I took this to WikiProject Israel (the other project that covers the article, although I don't know why) and WikiProject Jewish History (which seemed appropriate, but their forum isn't as lively as ours). Israel told me I'd probably be better asking at WikiProject Judaism. I'll probably go there now. elvenscout742 (talk) 07:50, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Waka
The primarity of "Waka" is under discussion, see talk:Waka -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 11:45, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
how many people with a certain name or surname
Lads, I want to improve and add references to many articles about names and surnames in Japan. I need something: what's the website from the Japanese government where you can search how many people in Japan have a certain name? Thanks, Azylber (talk) 04:59, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
- See and . The number on the second link is household、not individual. Sorry, but I do not know the governmental site/page with the information. Oda Mari (talk) 10:11, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
Help with new article
I threw together a quick stub for Kumamon (mascot) tonight, and I think it could be built up into a decent size as the Japanese version. I only stuck with English language sources as they are the most easily accessible, but I think with the plethora of sources on the Japanese Misplaced Pages we can flesh this one out fairly well.—Ryulong (琉竜) 12:18, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
File:Mitsushima POW Camp.png
File:Mitsushima POW Camp.png has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:27, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
Article on Mark Schilling on JoshuSasori 's page
I don't visit this WikiProject page all that frequently, but was surprised to see that JoshuSasori had been suddenly blocked indefinitely. I noticed that he had put together the draft of a BLP article on Mark Schilling, and I'd be prepared to add the few necessary citations (references)/ISBNs if it is copied or moved to article space. Mark Schilling already is mentioned many times in Misplaced Pages articles, so an article on him would meet notability requirements. I'm not sure of the best way to go about this; I realize that I could simply copy the contents from JoshuSasori's page—but the article should be properly attributed/credited to JoshuSasori, since he started it. Does anybody have any suggestions or pointers to guidelines as to how best handle this situation? LittleBen (talk) 04:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC)