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Revision as of 15:46, 13 March 2013 editCailil (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users15,119 editsm →Result of the appeal by Brandmeister← Previous edit Revision as of 18:56, 13 March 2013 edit undoSandstein (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators188,522 edits →Result concerning Hgilbert: warnings issuedNext edit →
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::: I have always assumed that ] was intended to apply to users not party to the original case. This is because the warning in effect formally notifies users that discretionary sanctions apply. For users party to the original case, the warning is not necessary because they obviously already ''know'' that discretionary sanctions apply. ] (]) 04:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC) ::: I have always assumed that ] was intended to apply to users not party to the original case. This is because the warning in effect formally notifies users that discretionary sanctions apply. For users party to the original case, the warning is not necessary because they obviously already ''know'' that discretionary sanctions apply. ] (]) 04:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
:::: That is a reasonable assumption. (In this case, DS were added later, but Hgilbert was notified of that, as EdJohnston mentioned above.) It's just that I personally prefer to err on the side of caution. I understand that {{user|AGK}} is working on motions to clarify that DS require only a notification rather than a warning about the case. I prefer to wait on that clarification, but you are of course free to proceed as you deem appropriate. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 05:41, 13 March 2013 (UTC) :::: That is a reasonable assumption. (In this case, DS were added later, but Hgilbert was notified of that, as EdJohnston mentioned above.) It's just that I personally prefer to err on the side of caution. I understand that {{user|AGK}} is working on motions to clarify that DS require only a notification rather than a warning about the case. I prefer to wait on that clarification, but you are of course free to proceed as you deem appropriate. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 05:41, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
*Considering that the request and the statements (notably that by IRWolfie-) are grounds for concern about the neutrality of Hgilbert's editing, I've issued formally correct warnings concerning Waldorf education and pseudoscience at . I noted that this is without prejudice to the definitive disposition of this request, in the event that any of you are of the view that there is a basis for sanctions even prior to these warnings. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 18:56, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

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    Fyunck(click)

    The request is dismissed as frivolous. The user who made it, SMcCandlish (talk · contribs), is topic-banned (per WP:TBAN) for one month from everything related to the Manual of Style.  Sandstein  18:01, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Request concerning Fyunck(click)

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 19:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Fyunck(click) (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    • Withdrawn: I'm formally withdrawing this AE request, since no one thinks the recent evidence is actionable, and the other evidence is seen as too old to be useful. I also grow weary of being accused of bad faith. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 06:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#All parties reminded and Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#Discretionary sanctions
    Diffs – no longer relevant, since request was rescinded.
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 6 March 2013 Re-re-re-pushing an anti-diacritics agenda yet again, at WT:AT, with comment difficult to interpret except as jingoistic attack on non-native English speakers categorically, a WP:ARBATC violation. It relates strongly to posts from about a year ago:
    2. 1 March 2012 again categorically hostile toward non-native English speakers. Personalization of style/title disputes, including unsupported accusations of WP:TAGTEAMing by Swedish editors generallyl.
    3. My-way-or-the-highway statement the same day regarding his interpretation of policy as anti-diacritics.
    4. Another "personalizing" edit that same day, against an admin critical of anti-diacritics campaigning.
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Not required, since WT:AT has a prominent WP:ARBATC warning atop it. But has been warned anyway:
    2. Warned on 16 November 2012 by HandsomeFella (talk · contribs) for editwarring about diacritics. Fyunck(click) reacted with noted hostility.
    3. Effectively warned on in November 2012 by being mentioned at and participating in a WP:ANI report against someone else topic-banned for diacritics editwarring.
    4. August 2012 warning, ignored, about bucking consensus in a diacritics-related WP:RM.
    5. Blocked in July 2012 for editwarring over diacritics. Etc., etc.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The statement at issue is: "The only place I've seen huge amounts of diacritics is here on wikipedia, but with so many non-English-first editors these days that shift is to be expected." It seems to be a violation of WP:ARBATC's "personalizing style or title disputes" prohibition. While it could theoretically be interpreted as a poorly worded concession that Fyunck(click) recognizes per WP:BIAS that diacritics are valid in article titles and text, and is thus is announcing he'll WP:JUSTDROPIT, this is unfortunately clearly not actually the case; it's a condemnatory "there goes the neighborhood"-style complaint; the statement is juxtaposed in the same post with an array of rehashed anti-diacritics arguments, so it is certainly not any such concession. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 19:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC) Evidence added back after Sandstein deleted it; other material trimmed to make "room" for it. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 09:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    19:04, 7 March 2013 (UTC) by SMcCandlish.

    Followups
    Older and/or moot responses.

    Sandstein, I don't have any interest in playing your WP:LAWYERish "I personally declare your AE request meaningless now because I shortened it myself to no longer make sense" games. Why you personally feel compelled to respond to any request here that has anything to do with MOS is, well, let's just call it an interesting question. I guess Fyunck(click) gets a free pass this time. <shrug> Maybe I shouldn't care, since I"m not Swedish. Oh, never mind; you don't even know what that refers to, since you deleted the evidence. <sigh> Actually, I added the evidence back in and trimmed the commentary about it; I guess I shouldn't theorize about why you didn't do that yourself instead of cutting out the part that matters. Hopefully someone uninvolved in MOS-bashing will take note of this request and actually act on it, other than by censoring it to be meaningless. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 09:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

    Update (in response to Joy asking): I think many of you are missing why the more recent Fyunck(click) statement, the one at actual issue here as a current AE problem, is objectionable. It is not a neutral observation, it's a dismissive/denigrating one that can be mistaken as neutral but only if its anti-diacritics context is ignored, and which mirrors a more clearly combatively-expressed sentiment I've quoted Fyunck(click) posting a year ago (the one especially targeting Swedes), and which is part of a generally WP:BATTLEGROUNDish stance on this style "issue". This AE request is not frivolous, and not made in bad faith, it's simply subtle/nuanced, and made on the basis of knowledge of Fyunck(click)'s prior problematic behavior on the topic. If the request is too nuanced, fine; just close the request with no action. There is no need for anyone to resort to threats of a topic ban against me, when I'm not in fact engaged in any editwarring, personal attacks, canvassing, or anything else problematic with regard to MOS/AT. I'm actually doing very productive MOS-related editing lately, with no disputation at all, e.g. at WP:WikiProject Animals/Article structure. Censorship is a crude hammer, and not every request here that fails to raise an issue AE admins collectively care to act on is a nail to be hit with it. I.e., "don't shoot the messenger." (PS: I have not made any claim that Sandstein is WP:INVOLVED with Fyunck(click). Rather, he is involved in an active, unresolved dispute with me at WP:ARCA that directly relates to him, me, MOS, and AE; his commenting as if an uninvolved admin, always with demands for sanctions against me, instead of simply as an editor with an opinion, on this request, and on the AEs involving me in Feb., are blatant conflicts of administrative interest.) — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 13:31, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

    Re-response to Joy: My initial opinion was that ARBATC's personalization-of-disputes clause applies to Fyunck(click)'s recent comment because of the pattern it seems to me to be a part of; AE regulars haven't agreed; the end. A "boomerang" block or ban being contemplated against me – perhaps solely because I have a clean block log despite rubbing certain people the wrong way – would be 100% punitive and just overkill. I realize you didn't say you were necessarily advocating such action yourself. However, I don't have a "grudge" against Fyunck(click) – we've had little interaction, and I did not bring him to AN/ANI, rather LittleBenW dragged Fyunck(click) into LittleBenW's own case there, which is when I noticed what I characterize as an anti-foreigner as well as anti-diacritics pattern, habitually overgeneralizing and condemnatory with regard to editors who aren't native English speakers and/or those who favor appropriate use of diacritics in article titles (he generally treats both kinds of editors as synonymous, a fallacious debate tactic), after being warned and even blocked for disruptive editing of one kind or another over diacritics. I'm being told it doesn't actually rise to AE level. Ergo, this case can simply be closed without any further fanfare. Being incorrect in my interpretation of ARBATC and its application in this instance is not "abusing" WP:AE, it's simply being incorrect. See also SarekOfVulcan's prior AE against me over my opposition to someone's RFA after they ranted against MOS twice in their opening RFA statement; no one took that AE seriously at all except maybe Sandstein, meanwhile various others questioned its faith and bandied about terms like "boomerang" against Sarek, but it closed with no action against any party. That was fine, and it's a good idea here, too. "Abusing" is the wrong verb tense anyway: It's not like I'm actively agitating for some kind of block or ban against Fyunck(click); even when filing this request I asked for there not to be one, only a warning against making anti-foreigner posts when going on about diacritics. A finding that I had abused (past tense) AE would be both incorrect and stale anyway. AE doesn't have any supposed block/ban-worthy bad faith behavior on my part to make some enforcement point about. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 00:32, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

    @LittleBenW, re: "fraudulent, or malicious attack" – THat's three clear personal attacks by you against me in an MOS-related dispute, which is thus a patent violation of the ARBATC "personalization of MOS/AT disputes" prohibition, if it can be applied to an AE discussion, which Sandstein and some others insist that it can. While "frivolous" is a matter of opinion about the merits of the AE request I brought, "fraudulent" is a legal claim that isn't applicable here (this is the second time you've made unprovable, nonsense legal accusations against me, and you were almost indef-blocked for making a legal threat last time, remember?); "malicious" is undeniably a bad faith accusation (not just assumption); and "attack" is a claim of WP:NPA violation, but no one has actually demonstrated any such attack. Simply filing an AE request because the latest post in a pattern seemed to violate ARBATC isn't an "attack", it's a request for administrative enforcement of ARBCOM remedies, if they're applicable. A determination that they're not doesn't magically convert the request into an "attack". — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 06:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

    @In Ictu Oculi: My now-rescinded request wasn't actually malformed, as WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#All parties reminded is written generically about style/titles disputes, not the specifics of the ARBATC case, for better or worse. Otherwise I would not have thought it applied, SarekOfVulcan would not have tried to apply it against my comments at RFA a month or so back, and so on. Whether intended that way or not, ARBATC's being interpreted broadly, not narrowly. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 23:26, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

    @Fyunck(click): I have rescinded this request because the AE admin respondents have concluded that the case is weak. Maybe I even really am flat-out wrong about your posts, too, as you say; if time shows this to be the case, I will owe you an apology. I declined to respond to your rebuttal details because I know AE admins can draw their own conclusions from the diffs (note they're not agreeing with you, only finding that the old diffs are too old and the newer one not actionable), and I'm trying to keep it short, not because I couldn't formulate a response. In reply to your question, I did not examine your editing "ashtray" closely at all to find the evidence I did find, I just looked at your talk page and recent archives of it; that is not in any way unusual or harassing. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 06:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

    @Mr. Stradivarius – Three important points:

    1. An MOS topic ban against me even for one month is not justified or justifiable simply because my interpretation of ARBATC may not have been entirely correct, or because my civility 4 or 5 months ago – long before any issue was raised here or in any other dispute resolution forum or noticeboard about it – may have lapsed, or it is imagined that I have a "grudge" against an editor I don't interact with much at all. Such a ban would also directly interfere with significant actual work I'm doing here, e.g. the WP:Manual of Style/Organisms proposal, which is nearing completion, and the WP:WikiProject Animals/Article structure proposal which is just getting started. Such a ban or a block would serve no remedy/prevention function at all, and be nothing but punitive, which is against ARBCOM's purpose and rules.
    2. Sandstein's "it may just mean that we'll be back here faster" response to you is the second time he's directly character-assassinated me by prognostication that firmly assumes bad faith, in virtually identical wording. Whether he considers himself topically invested enough in MOS disputes to be WP:INVOLVED is mooted by his self-evident, continual personal hostility toward me in particular; he's INVOLVED in a much more serious (and conduct-unbecoming) way than with regard to simple subject matter, and does not seem to understand that I am not his hobby, or his whipping boy.
    3. if AE calls my relying on 2012 Fyunck(click) diffs "frivolous", grudge-bearing, or otherwise inappropriate or worthless, despite my statement of their pattern-establishment relevance, then Sandstein trying to use his interpretation of some out-of-context post of mine from November 2012 (provided by LittleBenW, violating his own topic ban in the process) to show what he feels is a pattern and then use that as a basis for blocking or banning me is far worse, and Sandstein certainly knows better. As Joy noted, "not even from November 2012 is relevant" when I provided one. Goose, gander. If I were to receive WP:BOOMERANG sanctions, Sandstein surely would have to as well, for abusing AE to pursue a grudge, including incivilly personalizing MOS-related disputes, and using an "evidence that's too old and thus is frivolous even though you think it's part of a pattern" approach – i.e. what I stand accused of myself. WP:AE cannot seriously even consider permitting hypocrisy of such magnitude and blatantness, and editor faith in ARBCOM and adminship is badly shaken enough already, don't you think? — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 06:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
    @Joy : I am already "dissuaded" from coming here again any time soon, if ever. I hate this. Supposing that a short-term topic ban will have a deterrent effect on my making accusations here (or at ANI, etc.) without adequate proof also supposes that I'm crazy and would like nothing better than to keep coming back here. :-) I have a clean block log for a reason (and after 80K+ edits over 7+ years it's virtually impossible not to make some mistakes, as I admit I've made here). Regarding LittleBenW, it's not part of some "pattern". As I said in a followup note at ANI, I had not initially intended to raise any ANI issue with LittleBenW's attacks against me here (where he is not a party but someone who followed me here to make trouble); if I had some "grudge", I would have gone to ANI immediately, not 2 days or so after he started up again here. But even after Sandstein and you both warned him anew, he still continued to defiantly attack me and then you as well. Sandstein declared that AE was not the forum for dealing with this, and declined to take action about it on that basis; this suggested that raising it at ANI was the only appropriate action. If doing so really was "too bold", I can accept that, but will need clarification on how it was so, and would have to also say that I feel I was explicitly herded in ANI's direction. While I may have rubbed some people the wrong way here, and filed an AE request with evidence that has been deemed too weak in part and too old as to the rest of it, such that I rescinded the request, that doesn't somehow give other editors carte blanche to use AE as a platform for verbally abusing me (or anyone else) with impunity.

    If I had said about LittleBenW (or anyone else) what he has said about me (and then you) here, I have no doubt that I would now have a 1-year outright block imposed on me, since that's the SMcCandlish "remedy" Sandstein's proposed/threatened several times for any AGF/NPA violation in any MOS/AT discussion, as if I'm some kind of vandal, and he's stated he does consider AE itself to be within scope. I suppose I am not even permitted to speculate why LittleBenW got a free pass to do the same thing here under the same watch (and in a venue with a huge hatnote warning against personal attacks, an him violating his topic ban to engage in them), interesting as that question might be. It goes nicely with a related question: Why am I being raked over the coals so intently, aside from being allowed to be a personal-attacks target for days in a row, when I'm actually trying to follow the increasingly stringent "use the appropriate dispute resolution forum and do not get into personalizing squabbles on talk pages, or else" admonitions WP is full of lately? — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 12:50, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    PS: I have looked and looked, and the only noteworthy interaction I can find between me and Fyunck(click) heretofore is this side discussion in an RfC that you also participated in. While Fyunck and I were argumentative with each other, it was short, and even included me apologizing for ascribing someone else's edit to Fyunck by mistake, and Fyunck accepting the apology. Not much of a basis for a "grudge" assumption, right? — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 13:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    @Any uninvolved admin: Please just close this with nothing against Fyunck(click), since that seems to be the consensus, and a warning toward me against filing poor AE requests, if you feel one is actually warranted after I've already clearly gotten that point and understood that my request was actually much weaker than I thought when filing it (my first time ever making an AE request, and probably my last due to the intensely personalized hostile reception I received from one admin here, I might add). All this legalistic process is a frustrating time-sink for everyone. I've been wondering for several days why this is still open, since AE collectively determined I failed to present an adequate case almost immediately after I opened this request, and I've conceded that several times. There's multiple oppositions registered to blocking me, and not even a consensus to short-term topic-ban me, and now concerns raised about why a long-term productive editor with a clean block record is being considered for treatment like an inveterate disruptor, absent any actual evidence of bad faith, and even a showing of good faith in rescinding the AE request. Happening to be on the "losing" side of an AE request is not grounds for punitive sanctioning. Unwarranted sanctions that raise serious questions and concerns, as those proposed here already have, do not have a legitimate deterrent/preventative effect, but simply lead to more disputation and process, because they almost inevitably lead to appeals. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 12:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


    Discussion concerning Fyunck(click)

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Fyunck(click)

    Wow. I'm not exactly sure where the heck this came from... sort of out of the blue. In an ongoing discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#Use_of_accent_marks_in_titles I give a single opinion on an unsettled debate and out shoots an Arbitration Enforcement. I checked out SMcCandlish because of this and see he was admonished just the other day so I guess the frustration is to take it out on me. Under sanction/remedy to be enforced I have no idea what Mr. SMcCandlish is talking about - so no comment.

    under diff of edits:
    • 1. An editor asks a query and gets responses across the board. I make one comment... one... and I wind up here. Does having an opposing view to SMcCandlish really warrant me having to go through this? Or is this simply his anger at his recent warning coming through and I just happened to be an easy target?
    • 2. I really don't know what to say here either. Is everyone who participates in any diacritic conversation "battlegrounding?" If so that would certainly include SMcCandlish and hundreds of others. Is SMcCandlish really asking for the muting of all opposing views on wikipedia? That seems a bit harsh to me.
    under Diffs of notifications
    • 1. I have no idea exactly what this is - so no comment
    • 2. He really wants to bring HandsomeFella into this? An editor who's been blocked many times warns me for something that did not happen, and you bring that up here. This is an editor I've had problems with in the past with things he left on my own talk page. And the things that were being contested were not diacritics. How much combing and how how far back and how many ashtrays did SMcCandlish have to look under to bring this frivolous request here?
    • 3. Absolute falsehood. And "clearly returned to the topic in force" is another ridiculous statement by SMcCandlish. Can he really do this with no consequences? In that ANI someone said that SMcCandlish was "intimidating me" on my talk page. I came over to the ANI to say he wasn't intimidating me. Goodness. But let me state right now... SMcCandlish is intimidating me now. This is like bullying and it must stop.
    • 4. This is just grasping at straws by SMcCandlish. I was not blocked for edit warring over diacritics but a content dispute, and the person on the other side of the coin was also blocked. The other person was also blocked again. What a content dispute in July has to with this is beyond me.

    Disclosure: I may disagree with SMcCandlish's diacritics position on both logical and policy grounds, but not enough to bully or intimidate as he is doing to me now. And I can't help what others write on my page but I do try to answer to the best of my ability. If someone wants to cherry pick those answers without the context that goes with them then there's not a lot I can do. (The remainder of the response has been removed by a reviewing administrator because it exceeded the 500 word limit indicated at the beginning of the section.  Sandstein  07:12, 8 March 2013 (UTC)) Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:00, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

      • Note - the numbers I added were a direct response to Mr. SMcCandlish's numbers above. He has since changed them to heap on more and more ridiculous attacks on me, and I'm not going to keep renumbering them everytime he decides to heap on more. My statements stand as is to this bullying, even though they were also trimmed. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:20, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

    Followup I have to say the further statements by SMcCandlish (many misleading ones at that) make me really wonder what I ever did to him to make him so vitriol towards me. I only recall a couple times where we were on different ends of a diacritic debate... and now I see he has written more about me. I actually came here to ask that he just apologize to me and promise never to do this to me again, and let it go with a simple warning... that's the way I wish wikipedia would work. But now after reading more and more statements I begin to wonder if there is something underlying this? His attitude seems to be "oh well, I brought Fyunck here and it didn't work, no harm done." No "I'm sorry", no "boy did I make a mistake that will never happen again." I wish if something wasn't clear that SMcCandlish would have just asked me about it nicely on my talk page... it's not like I don't try to answer anything anyone writes there (except for one or two who I've had to have administrators deal with). But to open up my page and see I'd been dragged here, when I knew I hadn't argued with anyone for awhile, makes me wonder... will this happen to me again by SMcCandlish? Has he done this to anyone else with no remorse? I sure hope not, and I would hope a warning would work, but it makes me look over my shoulder now. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by LittleBenW

    The essence of this dispute overlaps with the appeal that I intend to file against my topic ban, so I will provide some relevant information and links:

    • SMcCandlish: Merely saying in your edit summary that you don't have a grudge against Fyunck surely does not excuse yet another MOS-related frivolous, fraudulent, or malicious attack on a NPOV editor. LittleBen (talk) 01:47, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Fyunck(click]: He's only trying to bully you off Misplaced Pages because you believe in fair play and NPOV—but he says he doesn't hold a grudge against you, so you should not take it personally. LittleBen (talk) 07:32, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by In ictu oculi

    User SMcCandlish has a virgin block log and I believe a block here would be inappropriate/overkill for 2 reasons:

    (1) he has pulled the request, which shows good faith
    (2) although the request was malformed (ARBCOM ruling is on titles/capitalization, wheras Fyunck's edits are leads/accents) but not frivolous:
    SMcCandlish RfC: "Is it appropriate for a wikiproject to insist on no-diacritics names, based on an organisation's rule or commonness in English-language press?"
    Sandstein close: "Consensus is that the answer to the question posed in the title of this RfC is "no". Additionally, a great majority of participants express a preference for retaining diacritics in the title of articles, either generally or as applied to tennis players in particular"

    The 100 leads and variants with the Roberto Argüello (born 12 May 1963) and known professionally as Roberto Arguello formula are counter the letter of RfC in that the 100 leads do "insist on no-diacritics names, based on an organisation's rule." - further these 100 leads have been largely added after the RfC in response to RfC and RMs and around 20 separate editors have tried to revert the formula across these 100 articles, with Fyunck reverting in all cases.

    Therefore on point(2) although the request was malformed I do not think a block can be given to an editor with a virgin record for seeing an editor already disregarding an RfC close on 100 articles to make comment dismissing the same consensus with or without the nationality addition: "Tennis doesn't use them.... The only place I've seen huge amounts of diacritics is here on wikipedia, but with so many non-English-first editors these days that shift is to be expected." As far as linking to WP:BOLLOCKS we don't generally block editors for linking to an existing WP:SHORTCUT no matter how crass.

    As far as Fyunck, I also don't see the need to block/sanction, until someone formally says to him, "yes that's part of the RfC close." In ictu oculi (talk) 12:51, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Fyunck(click)

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    I've shortened the request to the extent it exceeded the 500 word limit indicated at the beginning of the section. Indicating why a warning or notice is required should well be doable within 500 words. SMcCandlish may re-submit the request in a shortened version if he does so before Fyunck(click) responds to it. I'm waiting for a statement by Fyunck(click) before commenting on the merits.  Sandstein  19:38, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

    On the merits now: The request (as it now stands) contains exactly one diff of allegedly objectionable behavior. I find nothing of concern in it. It is an argument about whether and how diacritics are used in English (that is a question of the content of the MOS and therefore outside the scope of AE), and an observation that "but with so many non-English-first editors these days that shift is to be expected". That is a general observation about Misplaced Pages's editorship and does not personalize any disputes. It requires no administrative action. This request borders on the frivolous, and I invite comment by other administrators about whether action is needed with regard to this.  Sandstein  07:21, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    • What is the exact criterion for being an uninvolved administrator here? I have discussed the diacritics issue with Fyunck(click) at length before, so even if I don't know what he's been up to in the last few months (in particular, all of these diffs above are news to me), I'd rather steer clear. What makes me somewhat confused is that Sandstein previously closed an RfC on the matter but has in turn commented in this section. Granted, I think any admin should have come to those same conclusions there, but someone else could disagree, and that action still involved a modicum of interpretation and discretion, so it could be broadly construed as involvement, too. --Joy (talk) 11:16, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    The thing that prompted me to ask this in particular was the implication of Not the admin I give two hoots about as far as diacritics. He is a diacritic diehard and is as biased as anyone can be on wikipedia on that subject. Nothing personal against you, Sandstein, I hope it didn't come off that way. --Joy (talk) 11:20, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    Hm, whether you could be seen as involved would depend on the length and intensity of your diacritics-related discussion, I think. WP:INVOLVED excepts "minor or obvious edits which do not speak to bias".
    I didn't remember closing that RfC in 2012 – I frequently close random RfCs listed as needing closure on WP:AN. My personal view is that while I might have become involved if I had expressed an opinion of my own in the RfC (especially one strongly opposed to that of any party to the present request), the role of a closer of an RfC (or any other community discussion, such as an AfD) is to neutrally evaluate the consensus outcome of the discussion (and since nobody has objected to the closure, I assume that's how it was perceived). I've closed plenty of Israel/Palestine-related AfDs, for example, and nobody has ever said that for this reason I might be too involved to act as an administrator in that topic area.
    In the instant case, the consensus I considered to emerge from the RfC was congruent with SMcCandlish's opinion, and may have been contrary to (as far as I can tell) Fyunck(click)'s opinion. As applied to the present request, I'd therefore only consider recusing myself if Fyunck(click) were to request it.  Sandstein  16:53, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    That would be my guess, yes, but I just realized that the whole issue is moot because the diff is from early March 2012, and Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation was only closed later that same month. --Joy (talk) 11:54, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

    Regarding the issue of involvement, I'm not sure whether closing an RFC with a particular finding makes one "involved" or not, I would say not normally; if there was a question of conflict of interest, it might be, but I am not aware of the particular circumstances of the RFC in question and I doubt it would help resolve this request to go looking into it here.

    As to the merits of this request, the relevant statement from the original arbcom case would I think be that All parties are reminded to avoid personalizing disputes. While Fyunck's comments are technically comments on contributor, I don't think they quite rise to the level of personalizing disputes, particularly since Fyunck is commenting on a third party or parties not involved in the actual discussions in which he made these comments. To put it another way, I don't get the impression that Fyunck was setting out to offend or belittle anyone here, or that a legitimate content discussion was being derailed through the use of such tactics. So while I wouldn't describe this request as frivolous exactly, I don't think it has a great deal of substance. Users must I think be allowed a little leeway in trying to make a point. What I would describe as sanctionable would be comments which might be considered to be unduly hostile, or which might be likely to cause anger or offence, and there isn't much evidence of that here. So I don't see any need for action at this time; the request itself will probably serve as a sufficient reminder to Fyunck. Gatoclass (talk) 13:19, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

    Unfortunately I missed the fact in making the previous comment that three of the diffs are actually a year old. There is only one recent diff, and I see nothing objectionable about that comment, just making the observation that there are plenty of foreigners on en.wiki and assuming they would have a preference for diacritics can scarcely be construed as some sort of attack. So I agree that the request is frivolous. I think either a warning or a brief topic ban would be in order here. Gatoclass (talk) 14:06, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    • I too see nothing objectionable in the first diff; Fyunck's remark that non-native speakers of English might prefer diacritics seems like a fairly straightforward observation to me. Also, the "talked about a bazillion times" part may be hyperbole, but as I understand it there certainly has been a lot of discussion on the issue. With the lack of any other recent evidence presented, I have to agree with Sandstein and Gatoclass that this is a frivolous report. I think closing this with a warning would be too lax given SMcCandlish's warnings in this forum last week and on February 1st. Neither am I fan of topic bans covering a short duration, as they often cause more drama than they solve. I think the most appropriate thing to do in this situation would be to issue SMcCandlish with a short block, perhaps for one week, although I am open to persuasion about the length. — Mr. Stradivarius 15:08, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Agreed in principle, but it may be better to reconsider the longer-term MOS topic ban I suggested in the previous request regarding SMcCandlish. Sanctions should be preventative, not punitive. Because SMcCandlish's contributions in other topic areas are not problematic, as far as I know, a topic ban would be better suited to preventing untoward conduct than a block, which would prevent all contributions. The pattern of conduct that emerges from the previous requests you mention is one of a battleground attitude to MOS disagreements, and this groundless enforcement request is somewhat congruent with that pattern, because it is understandable that Fyunck(click) perceives it as "intimidating" and "bullying". Consequently I favor imposing a topic ban from the MOS and all related issues for about six months to a year.  Sandstein  16:53, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    I couldn't possibly agree to a ban of that length for an initial sanction, especially for a relatively trivial offence like filing a frivolous request - and particularly since this is an offence that usually attracts no more than a warning at most. If it's to be a topic ban, it should not be any more than the usual length for an initial ban of one month. I could support a longer initial ban for, say, a hardened POV-pusher, but for a user whose positive contributions to the topic area are widely acknowledged, and who probably just needs a little time to adjust to the discretionary sanctions regime, more than a month would be unduly punitive IMO. Gatoclass (talk) 17:06, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Going back to March last year to find trouble is pointless if there's no current problem... not even the rant from November 2012 is relevant because it's already been three months since that. The most recent diff isn't really objectionable - warning against it would easily be seen as an exercise in restricting someone's freedom of speech. SMcCandlish, why are you bringing this up now? --Joy (talk) 11:54, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
    • The diff in LittleBenW's statement, although a bit old (Nov. 12) is in line with my assessment of SMcCandlish using battleground terminology ("Anglo-American anti-ethnic discrimination", "xenophobic WP:BOLLOCKS") and, as here, the arbitration process as a means of intimidation ("The next time someone tries to force this article to be ... without the diaeresis, they should be taken to WP:ARBCOM") in order to win content disputes about issues of style. On the other hand, the statement may violate the diacritics topic ban that LittleBenW is apparently subject to (although I haven't seen it), but since that is apparently a community-imposed sanction, rather than an arbitral one, it can't be enforced in this venue.

      I'd prefer not to be the one to close this, frankly, if only to avoid lengthy discussions about involvement (as previously discussed, my opinion is that my interactions with SMcCandlish were of a purely administrative nature; just because he disagrees with my warnings to him and my assessment of his conduct doesn't make me involved.) But if no other uninvolved administrator closes this thread, I'll do so with a two-month topic ban to SMcCandlish, which takes into account Gatoclass's concern about length above.  Sandstein  07:37, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

    • It looks like no-one else is about to agree with my suggestion of a week-long block, and I do see your point about a topic ban allowing positive contributions in other areas to continue. If we are going to go with a topic ban, though, I would prefer it to be for one month, rather than two, for the same reasons as Gatoclass. More than one month seems a bit harsh for a first sanction to me. — Mr. Stradivarius 09:07, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
    I concur with Mr. Stradivarius and Gatoclass that blocking SMC for an extended period wouldn't be a good idea. Everyone else involved seems to have a history of egregious violations of policy that caused them to previously get blocked by various admins, whereas SMC has only recently been warned twice for assuming bad faith, but never blocked. Having them blocked for failing to present up-to-date evidence of bad faith about users that we already know to be more problematic than them - certainly looks disproportionate. In my mind at least, there's quite a serious difference between looking at a clean block log and one with something in it. A temporary topic ban won't leave that kind of a mark but will be enough to dissuade them from making these accusations as casually as before (because a single topic ban violation will be enough to prompt a block). --Joy (talk) 09:01, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
    Re: SMC update - it's a dismissive statement, yes, possibly denigrating, but TTBOMK the community has not withdrawn the presumption of good faith on Fyunck, so if that's all you've got, it's glaringly insufficient for action. If he was doing something disruptive at the same time, you might have a case, but like this, it looks like you are holding a grudge and abusing AE for that.
    Re: LBW - while looking into this, I found that Fyunck was blocked on 23 July 2012 for 17 hours before being unblocked, and the block log says Joe Decker did it because of the article Jelena Janković; while I haven't examined every aspect of that story, the conflated description of those events and persons appears quite tendentious, particularly coupled with the gross misinterpretation of the MakeSense64 RFC at the same time and a block log that shows no less than three blocks in the last six months. At the same time, SMC has none, and people are seriously thinking of boomerang-blocking him - LBW looks like a prime target for the same.
    --Joy (talk) 18:46, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
    Why am I to thank for anything you wish to imply? Your link shows User:HandsomeFella's edit summary of I wouldn't use the censorship argument, it didn't turn out well for GoodDay. That's presumably a reference to something negative that happened to User:GoodDay, so I went and looked, and his block log shows no less than five blocks in the last year or so, the last two based on arbitration enforcement. At the same time, the former user's block log shows an 11h block by Joe Decker coterminous with Fyunck's 17h block, and one edit-warring block after that.
    But I digress. I'm less than impressed by the accusation of intimidation when we're talking about people who have violated policies enough to get blocked so many times. SMC might have dug a hole for himself here, but you appear to be matching him and then some with this idea that implicating a third user in wrongdoing against Fyunck is somehow beneficial - if you want to request arbitration enforcement against HandsomeFella - do that; if you want to say e.g. that SMC and HF are tag-teaming against Fyunck - do that. Don't give us all this innuendo, because it just looks like you have an axe to grind, too. BTW this is not the right section for your comment. --Joy (talk) 08:24, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
    In the meantime, SMcCandlish appealed at ANI for someone to enforce LBW's topic ban, and so it was enforced with a block. *sigh* It doesn't significantly affect this process, but it's interesting because it may be seen to fit the pattern: SMC is clearly an editor who is bold in dealing with what he perceives is WP:DE - but is he too bold? --Joy (talk) 08:14, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    How can a successful request, agreed to by two admins there, be used as evidence that SMC has a pattern of frivolous cases or being "too bold"? ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 16:56, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    OK, it seems nobody else wants to close this, and we're back in wall-of-text territory, so I'll do it. Per the discussion above, for continued battleground-like conduct in disputes about the manual of style, as manifested notably in the recent requests of 24 February 2013 and 27 January 2013 and in this frivolous and vexatious request, SMcCandlish is topic-banned (per WP:TBAN) for one month from everything related to the Manual of Style and its components, except for references to the MOS that may be necessary to explain any articlespace edits he makes.  Sandstein  18:01, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    Soosim

    Soosim blocked four days for violation of the ARBPIA 1RR on two different articles. EdJohnston (talk) 20:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Nomoskedasticity (talk) 06:13, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Soosim (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#PRINCIPLES and Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#General 1RR Restriction
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 7 March 2013 09:23 Undoes previous edit on Amiram Goldblum
    2. 8 March 2013 08:03 Undoes previous edit on Amiram Goldblum, thus a violation of 1RR
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on 13 December 2011 by EdJohnston (talk · contribs)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    • One edit relates to the Israeli occupation, the other to Peace Now. Both are clearly connected to I/P. If you look at the recent history of NGO Monitor, you'll see another violation of 1RR: first this, then this, both on 6 March.
    • This request comes in the context of serious concern about the way Soosim has been adding poorly sourced negative material to the BLPs of activists on the left of the I/P conflict. One egregious example was here, using a very questionable source to get an accusation of anti-Semitism onto the page. Another one is here, where some neutral material is accompanied by a vitriolic paragraph sourced to CAMERA's own website. Soosim has been antagonising Goldblum for months now, and if he can't adhere strictly to 1RR then he ought to be given a lengthy break and/or a topic ban. The use of poor sources for negative BLP editing should, in my view, result in a sanction even when it doesn't violate 1RR.
    • @Sandstein: the indicated "notification" by EdJohnston was in fact a block for violating 1RR as per the ARBPIA sanctions. I don't think that whether Soosim is aware of ARBPIA is really in question. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:56, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment -- Whatever one makes of Sandstein's concern about the general nature of ARBPIA, the fact is that Soosim was warned and clearly knows about 1RR on I/P articles. The sort of concern Sandstein indicates, if widely shared among arbs/admins, portends to undermine the 1RR restriction in this area. I think that would be a very bad idea. As for Soosim's claim that I too violated 1RR, that is an extremely bad faith claim, failing to indicate that my edit was immediately self-reverted and failing to convey the edit-summary with the explanation (here). Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:50, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
    • @EdJohnston: I don't think the 1RR violation itself is serious enough to justify a topic ban. But in the context of using very poor quality sources to get things like "anti-Semitic" and "hypocrisy and double standards" onto BLPs, I think a topic ban warrants consideration. This sort of thing is a plague in the I/P area. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 18:41, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
    • @Ed -- on inspection, it's true that Soosim didn't add the text about 'hypocrisy and double standards'; he did however use the CAMERA source to expand that passage and add an example of what he appears to consider Siegman's 'hypocrisy and double standards'. It's a mystery to me how this makes it 'more acceptable'. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 07:13, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified.

    Discussion concerning Soosim

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Soosim

    hi all - i see there has been some discussion here since yesterday. i apologize for not answering right away. i started to and then was unable to be at my computer until now (36 hours later).

    i would like to say the following:

    a) nomo was waiting for me to screw up. fine. i screwed up, according to the rules. i was 23 hours and not 25. (though 25 can also be like 24 under certain circumstances, right?). i have an 'excuse', but it is irrelevant. and yes, the two edits were two very different items, but apparently that is irrelvant as well.

    b) i am very shocked at nomo's wholesale categorization of me "serious concern about the way Soosim has been adding poorly sourced negative material to the BLPs of activists on the left of the I/P conflict". i have made thousands of edits, and there are two questionable ones (questionable according to nomo). i will simply say that the greta berlin edit was one which can be allowed since the source was specific and knowledgable. after it was reverted, i left it alone. didn't fight it, didn't edit war. period. and for the siegelman edit, i was clarifying content that was already there. didn't add what nomo thinks.

    c) and if i may, nomo also has been a 1RR violater on the same exact page. i think this shows it: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Amiram_Goldblum&diff=542762926&oldid=542536262 - but, i will not "take nomo to AE" because in my 5+ years of wiki editing, i haven't done that. i prefer to talk on the talk pages, work things out. you ask my 'natural' sparring partners about that (sean.hoyland, malik, dlv, etc.). maybe i need to be more 'vicious', but i doubt i will head in that direction.

    thanks for listening.

    @EdJohnston: ed - if i may....a) berlin: i used a piece written by the person themselves. i wasn't using mondoweiss as a RS, but rather the article itself. if joe shmoe writes an article, it is valid for joe shmoe's opinion only, correct? did i miss something? ; b) camera - i didn't put that on the page. it was already there, and i think i edited it and added material to make it more acceptable. if it wasn't a good edit (the adding about the LA times, i think), then it can be removed. let me know what you think. thanks. Soosim (talk) 05:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

    @ed - i think 4 days is a bit harsh.....the last time was december 2011. i don't deny that i am overzealous and often get dragged in. and most of the time (zero times in the last 14 months) i am pretty good about it. i thought your original call for 48 hours was fair. Soosim (talk) 05:28, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Gatoclass

    @Sandstein: In response to your queries, the 1RR discussion was led by admins then active at AE and was considered an AE remedy. Since AE admins are explicity given the discretion to impose remedies (hence "discretionary sanctions"), I'm sure they were seen as having the power to do so, but regardless, the 1RR restriction is by now long accepted as an ARBPIA remedy. With regard to Soosim, AFAICT he has been a regular contributor to I-P conflict-related pages since 2008, and has himself been the subject of AE requests in the past, so it is practically inconceivable that he would not be unaware of the 1RR restriction after all this time. Gatoclass (talk) 17:45, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

    And Soosim him/herself explained the 1RR rule on this board here. Zero 13:53, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Soosim

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    Could someone who was around then explain how Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction is a restriction enforceable under Arbitration Committee authority? The case page states "Per community discussion and decision at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Arbitration Enforcement/Israel-Palestine articles", but this board is not for enforcing community decisions, only arbitral ones. If the 1RR restriction is to be considered a discretionary sanction (and I'm not sure that it can be, since it neither invokes the arbitral decision's authority nor is it labeled as being imposed by a clearly identified uninvolved administrator), the question would remain as to how we know that Soosim was made aware of the restriction's existence.  Sandstein  17:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

    If there is any question whether Soosim received a proper notice, I did warn him using the {{uw-sanctions}} template in December, 2011. EdJohnston (talk) 06:42, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
    Thanks for the clarifications. You're all correct as far as I can tell, but nonetheless... Call me a hidebound legalist, but I'm uncomfortable enforcing a provision that is not clearly (a) a Committee decision taken by majority vote and published as such on the case page, or (b) a discretionary sanction labeled as such, made by a responsible individual administrator and specifically notified to the editor via talk page message or edit notice. Tertium non datur, in my view.

    Also, the 1RR restriction is worded such that it is to be applied to anyone who edits an affected article without prior warning: "Editors who violate this 1RR restriction may be blocked without warning by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense". As it is unreasonable to expect that every editor who edits these articles is aware of even the existence of this arbitration case, this provision runs counter to my sense of procedural fairness (even though notification is not a problem in this case).

    So, personally, I'd rather not take action in this case. That's not to say that I think less of anyone who does decide to act on this enforcement request, but to me this provision is too novel and unusual for me to be comfortable with acting on it.  Sandstein  15:56, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

    The defense that "I didn't know this is in effect" is moot when said editor has been warned prior, however. - Penwhale | 17:56, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
    • On the actual topic of this complaint, Soosim already broke 1RR and seems to have no valid defence. His block log shows that he's been previously sanctioned for 1RR violation, so I'd double the previous remedy, and make this a 48-hour block. The only question is whether anyone considers this serious enough to justify a topic ban. EdJohnston (talk) 18:33, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
    I have now checked out the claims of Soosim's bad editing at Henry Siegman, Amiram Goldblum, NGO Monitor and Greta Berlin. The worst item was this edit at Greta Berlin. It seems to be an example of poor judgment on his part. Trying to use a blog like Mondoweiss as a reliable source for a certain bad comment being posted on Facebook is a stretch. Still, it's within the realm of editor discretion and I don't know if it is sanctionable at AE. Quoting CAMERA's opinion on Henry Siegman looks to be another example of poor judgment. For us to cite CAMERA's opinion about an Israeli leftist is like reporting what Joe McCarthy thinks about Communism: the answer is predictable, and it tells us little about the person who is the target of the comment. It looks like there was another 1RR violation at NGO Monitor on 3 March, so with that in mind I'd increase the block to 4 days. EdJohnston (talk) 05:33, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
    No admins have expressed any support for a topic ban. The submitter, Nomoskedasticity, mentions a topic ban. Gatoclass left a comment but he did not participate in the uninvolved admin section since he usually considers himself to be involved in this topic area. Sandstein does not wish to close 1RR violations that were established by ARBPIA due to "Tertium non datur". Sandstein, we've only closed about 50,000 of these here at AE while you were temporarily away from this board. So I'll proceed to close this within 24 hours with a four-day block of Soosim for the double 1RR violation unless there is consensus against that. EdJohnston (talk) 20:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
    Closing now with a 4-day block. EdJohnston (talk) 20:36, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Brandmeister

    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Brandmeister (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Brandmeister 10:29, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    Two-year topic ban on all articles related to Armenia-Azerbaijan and related ethnic conflicts, broadly interpreted, imposed at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive129#Brandmeister
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Lord Roem (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator

    Statement by Brandmeister

    I would like to request a review of my topic ban, imposed on February 10, 2013 in the aforementioned AE section. The edit, for which I have been reported and sanctioned, was merely a removal of contradiction within the article's text (which I noted in the edit summary) and the edit was ultimately restored by mediator Golbez. Up until now the dissenting users themselves have no concerns at the related talk page thread, which I started on February 4. Also I would like to note that the previous report on me was dishonest as it was made by account which subsequently turned out to be a sock. In his report that account, Vandorenfm, mentioned four other allegedly unrelated editors, with whom I had interacted (Aram-van, Gorzaim, Vandorenfm and Xebulon). All of them also turned out later to be socks, which likely tried to use the arbitration noticeboard as an instrument to overcome the content disputes. User:Zimmarod, who reported me this time, displays the behaviour of a dormant single-purpose account, as evidenced by his/her contributions, that are almost exclusively within the Armenia-Azerbaijan field. Considering that and the fact that the Armenia-Azerbaijan topics constitute an insignificant part of my contributions, I believe that my two-year topic ban is inappropriately severe and can be reviewed. I am ready to provide any further details if necessary. Brandmeister 10:29, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

    @ Sandstein I have not wrote above, that Zimmarod was a sock. I wrote, that he behaves like WP:SPA, which does not neccessarily mean that he is a sock. Brandmeister 19:13, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Lord Roem

    I have no objection to reducing the ban duration, per the comment in the discussion section below (which I believe suggests shrinking from two years to one). If this needs to be done by me, I'll gladly do it. Otherwise, I authorize any other uninvolved admin to adjust that time without objection from me. --Lord Roem ~ (talk) 07:53, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 1)

    Statement by (involved editor 2)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Brandmeister

    Statement by The Devil's Advocate

    Sandstein, Brand's comment about sockpuppets filing a report against him is in reference to a report filed by User:Vandorenfm in February of 2011, which resulted in a year-long topic ban. As you can see, that account was eventually found to be a sockpuppet of another editor. The other two accounts were also blocked as sockpuppets, one being a sockpuppet of the same editor who operated Vandorenfm. I think the current sanction is extremely excessive in light of those facts and given the very limited legitimate evidence provided in this latest case.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

    The two-year length of the current topic ban was suggested because of there having been a previous one-year topic ban so it does have relevance to the current sanction.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:56, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Grandmaster

    I would like to support the request by Brandmeister. His 2 year topic ban is considered to be an escalation of his previous 1 year topic ban, but one should take into the account that the first ban was not a correct one. If we look into its history, the complaint against Brandmeister was made by User:Vandorenfm, a sock of the banned user. See here: Note the complaint of the sock: The immediate concern is his editing of the article on Caucasian Albania, where User:Twilight Chill continues waging an edit war against 5 (five) other unrelated editors (Aram-van, Gorzaim, Vandorenfm, MarshallBagramyan, Xebulon). As Brandmeister noted above, 4 of 5 accounts that Vandorenfm mentioned back then turned out later to be socks (User:Aram-van, User:Gorzaim, User:Vandorenfm, and User:Xebulon). So group of sock accounts tag teamed against an established editor with tens of thousands of useful contribs, and then reported him to get him banned. That plan worked back then, but considering that the sock accounts were later exposed, I believe that first ban should be overturned and discounted, because the banned user is not allowed to make any contribs to Misplaced Pages, including filing enforcement reports at this board, and any contribs by the banned users and their socks must be reverted on spot without consideration to their merits. Therefore Brandmeister did not violate any rules by reverting socks, and should not have been banned on the basis of the report by a sock account.

    Now if we look into the present topic ban, we can see that situation appears to be similar to that that led to the first ban. Brandmeister was alone against a group of accounts with less that 500 edits each, which appeared one after another after a long absence to rv the article Shusha. And I'm not the only one who thinks that the activity of Zimmarod, Oliveriki and 517design in the article Shusha looks very suspicious. Sandstein agreed "that the history of the article gives the impression that sock- or meatpuppetry may be involved". Golbez also stated that he believed Zimmarod could be a sock account. Plus Brandmeister was the only one who attempted to discuss and left a comment at talk, while accounts reverting him never bothered to join the discussion. In a situation like this, I don't think that a topic ban (especially such a long one) is justified. Grandmaster 23:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by Brandmeister

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Decline appeal, but recommend that the banning administrator reduce the ban duration. I was among the uninvolved administrators who expressed support for the original sanction, based on what I said then was a summary review of the complaint and response. To begin with, the statements about alleged misconduct by others are immaterial to whether the sanction against Brandmeister is appropriate or not, and can be disregarded. What matters here is only whether Lord Roem was right to impose a 2-year topic ban for Brandmeister's actions. On reflection, I think that the duration of the ban is disproportionate. The request incorrectly stated that Brandmeister had been blocked for a year and that he had been topic-banned for a year for similar conduct. If that were true, a 2-year ban would have been understandable. But in fact, Brandmeister had only been blocked for a week, by me. It would have been useful if Brandmeister had pointed out this error in his response to the enforcement request, which he did not. Considering that the sanction was imposed for "only" one revert, and that administrators are or were reluctant to impose year-long topic bans in other recent cases for what I consider rather more serious misconduct, namely longterm battleground conduct and intimidation, I think that the ban is disproportionately long, and I recommend that Lord Roem reduce it to a year or less.

      However, I would not accept the appeal in the sense of overturning the sanction against Lord Roem's will, for the following reasons: In general, administrators enjoy a wide individual discretion in imposing discretionary sanctions, and reviewing authorities other than the Arbitration Committee itself should not interfere with that discretion other than in cases of clear and severe error, which is not the case here. In this specific case, the statement of appeal is additionally problematic in that it does not reflect any understanding for why the conduct for which the ban was imposed was disruptive. Furthermore, the appeal alleges that the complainant, Zimmarod (talk · contribs), "subsequently turned out to be a sock". That is not true, in the sense that the account is not blocked as a sock, and I am not aware of (and the appeal does not supply any evidence for) any other authoritative finding that they are a sock. The Arbitration Committee has stated that casting aspersions on others by alleging substantial misconduct on their part (such as socking) without supplying evidence for such allegations is disruptive. Accordingly, I would decline the appeal for that reason alone.  Sandstein  18:13, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

    Sorry, I misread that; the appeal apparently refers to Vandorenfm (talk · contribs), who is blocked as a sock. Nonetheless, I don't see how other editors being sockpuppets has any relevance to whether the sanction against Brandmeister for his own action(s) is appropriate.  Sandstein  21:41, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

    I wasn't going to comment on this one but since nobody else has for a day or two, I think I will.

    I have never been altogether comfortable with the "escalating sanctions" model recommended at some dispute resolution pages (though no longer, it seems, under the wording of the standard discretionary sanctions). The escalating model in my view is akin to the "three strikes and you're out" laws in some US states, where a miscreant can end up with a life sentence for stealing a pizza. Although it is certainly appropriate to utilize the escalating model in some circumstances, as a general rule I am more comfortable with the notion of applying a sanction proportionate to the offence.

    In this case, my impression is that Lord Roem felt obliged to lay an extended sanction in line with the aforementioned escalating sanctions model, resulting in a two-year ban, but it seems no administrator here really believes the offences were that egregious. In these circumstances, I too would probably favour a reduction to a more proportionate level, particularly since Brandmeister's previous case appears to have been engineered in part by a since banished sockpuppet. Given that the effective length of any topic ban, if I am not mistaken, is six months (at which time a user can appeal), I would tentatively suggest a reduction to three months this time around. Gatoclass (talk) 10:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    • Generally agree with Gatoclass & Sandstein here. A sanction was justified but the length seems too long. It's rare that we see any definite length beyond 1 year and generally (due to what Gatoclass has pointed out re: appeals) bans beyond 12 months tend to be indefinite. So one way or another I would suggest reconsidering the length. While cogniscent of Sandstein's point that we can't force Lord Roem's hand here, like Gatoclass I think something less than a year and closer to 3 months around a year would be more in line with practice, but that is a suggestion - it is within the sanctioning sysop's discretion to disagree and since none of us are in fact suggesting an overturn of the ban all we can do is suggest a reconsideration of the length--Cailil 15:33, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
      I struck some of my comment above, given that the history of the 1 year ban in 2011 was also based on prior edit warring in 2009. As Sandstein states it is irrelevant that other accounts were single purpose or sock puppets. What is relevant is Brandmeister's long history of sanctions. I still hold that a 2 year ban is an unusal duration but I wouldn't necessarily suggest something as low as 3 months given the full history here--Cailil 15:45, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

    Hgilbert

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Hgilbert

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Binksternet (talk) 00:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Hgilbert (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Waldorf education#Conflict of interest, and Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Waldorf education#Hgilbert. With regard to the Waldorf schools topic, Hgilbert was found to have a conflict of interest, to engage in original research, and to use inadequate and inappropriate references. Hgilbert and any other editor with an identified conflict of interest was instructed to follow the guideline at WP:Conflict of interest, which states that COI editors may not perform controversial edits to articles. Binksternet (talk) 00:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 10 March 2013. Removal of "Pseudoscience" category, with the edit summary of "controversial category", which confirms Hgilbert's knowledge of the disputed nature of this change. Two minutes after he made this change, Hgilbert initiated discussion of the issue at Talk:Waldorf education#Categorization, rather than first engaging in discussion and gaining consensus.
    2. 10 March 2013. Removal of negative summary text from the lead section, in support of new editor Vittoria Gena (who has contributed only on three articles, all of which touch upon Waldorf, including a book that likens non-Waldorf schools to Nazism.) Discussion of this material was underway on the talk page, at Talk:Waldorf education#Undue material. The negative information was a summary of negative points described in greater detail in the article body, so it was appropriate per WP:LEAD guideline, but open to discussions of undue weight. Hgilbert acted to remove the disputed text but consensus had not been reached.
    3. 9 March 2013. Removal of an image of the human heart, with negative text in the caption. No discussion.
    4. 5 March 2013. Introduction of inappropriate reference to K12academics.com which includes, in its text, the editorial bracketed note "citation needed". This indicates that K12academics.com is not reliable, that its contributors do not agree on content.
    5. 4 March 2013. Removal of Sean Esbjorn-Hargens' ReVision reference as "non-peer reviewed journal". One minute later, Hgilbert opened a discussion about this reference, rather than discussing it first and gaining consensus for change.
    6. 1 March 2013. Removal of several article alert templates, including POV and COI. The POV tag was discussed on the talk page between Hgilbert and Jellypear at Talk:Waldorf education#Tags, but nobody agreed, or even discussed with Hgilbert, the removal of the COI tag which applied specifically to himself. Nevertheless, he removed it.
    7. 13 February 2013. Removed negative information from cited to professor Edzard Ernst and education expert Richy Thompson of the British Humanist Association. No discussion.
    8. 10 February 2013. Added a reference about Waldorf governance. The reference is about the Association of Waldorf Schools of North America (AWSNA), but the text that it purportedly supports pertains to global Waldorf/Steiner practices, not just North America. No discussion.
    9. 9 February 2013. Removal of cited text, that makes Steiner look more like a kook. Hgilbert summarizes, "rem. jargon, simplify." No discussion.
    10. 9 February 2013. Removal of the word "pseudoscience" from a section header. No discussion.
    Correction 10: 9 February 2013. Hgilbert added "Science" to the header of the "Pseudoscience" section. He removed the list of examples found by Jelinek and Sun; ones which reflected very poorly on Waldorf. Binksternet (talk) 02:34, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on 11 March 2013 by Binksternet (talk · contribs)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    After receiving the warning on 11 March, Hgilbert replied that he thought the ArbCom determination of 2006 had been superseded by a new one (a motion passed on 30 January 2013: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Waldorf_education#Modified_by_motion). As far as I can tell, the conflict-of-interest determination remains in place with regard to editors. The findings about Hgilbert also remain in place. The amendment looks like it replaces only one section of the 2006 ArbCom case, changing "article probation" to "standard discretionary sanctions". I think that Hgilbert is in violation of COI and the 2006 finding naming him specifically, and has been for some weeks now.

    After I warned him, Hgilbert did not revert the two edits I pointed out as being in violation. This unwillingness to follow the 2006 finding is typical of his behavior. For instance, on 28 November 2012, Alexbrn warned Hgilbert about COI , which Hgilbert removed from his talk page but answered at the article talk page: . There, Hgilbert argued against the 2006 finding, saying that he was "no more or less conflicted than an employee of the public school system would be in editing an article on public education." Because this has been a long-running problem, I propose that Hgilbert be topic-banned from Waldorf education article space, broadly construed, but not banned from talk pages, which are not the locus of the problem. Binksternet (talk) 00:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Hgilbert

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Hgilbert

    I'm happy to have this looked at. At Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Continued_conflict_of_interest_at_Waldorf_education the claim was made that I have made massive prejudicial changes since early February, when Alexbrn last edited the article. We could start with this diff of all the changes between Alexbrn's last contribution on Feb. 3rd, and the present state of the article as of March 11th. What massive removals of negative material and additions of positive material have been made over this time frame? (Note that many of the mostly minor changes that have been made were made by other editors.) Also: Note that there was also a review of the original arbitration.

    Also: if arbitrators examine Talk:Waldorf education, I think they'll see harmonious discussion on a range of issues, and a readiness to compromise.

    In response to the concrete diffs above (from Binksternet):

    1. WP:Category clearly states that categories should not be controversial. See the extensive talk page discussion here, which makes it clear that this category is very controversial. Summarizing: There is extensive controversy over WE's relationship to pseudoscience, as documented in the article; many educationalists believe that it is a solid educational approach, and some of those who are cited on the pseudoscience side (e.g. Jelinek) support the education generally, but dispute some curriculum content. The discussion deserves to be presented fairly, but it clearly falls foul of the category criteria. In any case, the category was initially removed by another editor, Vittoria Gena here. I supported this when the change was reverted.
    2. I summarized the material in the lead more concisely, trying to preserve the primary discussion themes; see also here where I added more material. The body of the article retains a full discussion of all the topics. The only issue I removed from the lead was the immunization issue, as per a (still undisputed) suggestion of another editor on the talk page.
    3. The image of the human heart was not closely related to Waldorf education. It had previously been critiqued for this reason.
    4. The citation critiqued here is solely used to support the uncontroversial fact that there were 12 Waldorf schools in North America in 1968. This is not a controversial question; though the article is actually cogent, I would not use the source for other purposes, and would have been happy to have looked for a better source had the choice been questioned at any point after I added this text. (In response to concerns raised here, I have now replaced the citation.)
    5. Why would we want to keep material not supported by its own citation? See discussion about this on the article talk page Talk:Waldorf_education#ReVision, where another editor points out that the article text for which this citation was used turned out to be not remotely supported by it, indicative of a larger problem with whoever added this text originally.
    6. See the talk page discussion of tagging here. Neither in the week and a half of discussion prior to the removal of the tags, nor in the week and a half that have passed since, have any objections been made indicating that the tags should be kept. Further: the COI issue had been brought to an arbitration proceeding recently; the conclusion of this proceeding is here. The arbitrators consciously emphasized that the focus should not be on COIs, but on the policy on reliable sources as a path toward resolution. This distinction has also been raised by an administrator in the current discussion. After this arbitration proceeding, neither this nor the other tag was under current discussion, which I understand is meant to be a requirement for the tagging.
    7. This is the only place of all those cited where I actually removed content critical of WE. I have to confess, the theme seemed adequately covered; two paragraphs of material drawn from a single TES article seems to be a violation of WP:UNDUE, but I am open to discussion of this.
    8. This diff shows me adding a single phrase stating that the role of boards of Waldorf schools includes "formulating strategic plans and central policies," with a supportive citation. WP:RS states that organizations are reliable sources for information about their own workings, so long as this is not controversial. If this is highly controversial, feel free to explain why. If you believe it to be particular to North America and want to qualify the sentence to say so, this would be fine. (What's the big deal??)
    9. The use of jargon was criticized repeatedly by a wide spectrum of editors: Talk:Waldorf_education/Archive_11. Responding to that, I changed this terminology, the meaning of which was unlikely to be easily accessible to the general reader, to more easily comprehensible terminology. It's a little unfair to request that jargon be removed and then criticize when it is removed!
    10. Rather amusing. The diff indicated shows me adding the term pseudoscience to the section header, not removing it. hgilbert (talk) 01:08, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    In response to IRWolfie's diffs:

    1. The first diff removed an image which had been contested on the talk page as being unrelated to Waldorf education. This question had been taken to the reliable source noticeboard; the response by an outside editor was that the image was unrelated to the article, and that the source it was drawn from was an unreliable source. The second diff is removing material referenced the same article, critiqued as not a reliable source by outside editors. Incidentally, this material was later reinstated when we accepted -- despite the outside editor's critique -- that the article, though not peer-reviewed, had some claim to reliable source status. Perhaps this should be reviewed again. IRWolfie further criticizes me for trying to ensure that "all sources have to be peer reviewed"; the requirement that in this and related articles, sources for any controversial material be peer-reviewed, stems from the last arbitration proceeding. I find a critique of my following WP guidelines a little odd.
    2. This is actually a diff of changes made to a different article. The claim for BD was sourced to an organization named ISIS, which as far as I understood is notable in organic agriculture circles. There was further discussion of this at the time; I believe the material was removed as a result.
    3. This diff shows a change that kept all relevant text, including the author of the citation, and only took out the name of the book cited, which is easily found in the reference. This follows standard WP practice; we don't usually mention (inline) the name of the books or journal articles referenced in discussions of this source.
    4. These are critiques of my attempting to remove material sourced to a blog, in accordance with clear WP policy. Again IRWolfie critiques me for trying to ensure that sources for controversial material are peer-reviewed, in accordance with the very clear arbitration guidelines laid down for this article. (I am puzzled.) Incidentally, if you read the diff claimed to be calling for "tag teaming", I had made an erroneous reversion (to the wrong version) and was requesting help to sort this out.
    5. IRWolfie is right here; the citation contains an extract from a WP article, which I had not noticed, and should be removed. (I will do this.) Done

    In response to A13ean:

    1. According to WP:RS, sources are not less usable merely because they are "difficult to access academic sources" (!!) Nor does a source's being written in a foreign language have any bearing. Much was made about using only very high quality sources about WE, and some of these will tend to be in German by the nature of the beast.
    2. authors with some connection to Waldorf education were not excluded by the original arbitration proceeding, which required that, regardless of the author, works be peer-reviewed, rather than published by Waldorf publishers, but emphasized that this would especially be true for those involved in the movement. Peer review and the general standards for RSs are the point.
    3. Steiner's own writings were explicitly excluded by the original arbitration proceedings however, at least when controversial; we were required to use secondary sources evaluating his thinking instead, for reasons that were amply clear at the time.
    4. I will not respond to each diff, but as an example of the misrepresentations presented here, the claim that I changed "Biodynamic agriculture has been characterized as pseudoscience by scholars" to "Biodynamic agriculture has been the subject of serious scientific study" is false. I changed a "criticism" section to a "reception" section in line with WP guidelines on WP:Criticism sections, and added additional text without removing the pseudoscience attribution. hgilbert (talk) 20:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    More generally: I have been striving to bring a neutral point of view in a situation that has been historically, and continues to be, highly polarized. There are a number of editors who seem primarily interested in bringing negative critiques into the article, and others who primarily interested in positive views. There are virtually no neutral voices. I have been trying to keep to the RS policy as the path forward. As a result, a number of questions have been brought to the RS noticeboard recently; Looking at the talk page, it seems clear that the mood is generally of fruitful discussion. I believe I consistently seek a positive solution and am willing to use consensus and compromise, respecting all points of view. hgilbert (talk) 02:21, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    • Images

    The two images (of Lemuria and the human heart) were added by User:Alexbrn, following a persistent pattern of POI-pushing on the critics' side.

    • COI tag

    In defense of the removal of COI tagging--which I grant is not normally a good idea:

    1. since the tagging there had been an arbitration which had found that the COI I was accused of was not relevant to the case (pointing us to RS policy instead)
    2. after I proposed removing the two tags, NPOV and COI, there had been a week and a half of discussion in which no one spoke up against this removal (nor has anyone questioned the removal on the talk page since)

    Nevertheless, I clearly should have requested others to remove it rather than removing it myself. I apologize. hgilbert (talk) 10:27, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    1. The recent arbitration discussion I refer to is (see second half of page). Though COI issues were raised by editors offering opinions, not one of the arbitrators mentions these issues in either the Arbitrator views and discussion or Motion: Waldorf education discretionary sanctions. They urge us to focus on reliable sources: "the original ruling has long been overtaken by our evolving policies on reliable sourcing".
    2. As Nil Einne mentions below, s/he had also explicitly stated at WP:ANI that "the thing to concentrate on why the edits were bad or controversial, not whether or not the editor has a COI. Concentrating on the COI misses the point because someone is not going to be blocked simply because they were editing when they had a COI, even if the edits were controversial and many question whether the COI should even come in to the block (perhaps the length of the block only). As Hgilbert mentioned, this has been reaffirmed in other cases." I assumed from Nil Einne's contribution at ANI that this editor is an administrator and took his/her comments on the case to be clear direction that we should focus on issues such as RS, NPOV, and working on consensus.

    Due to the above rulings and comments by admins, and the complete lack of dissent to the removal of the COI tag when I raised this, I understood that the removal was both in line with the current understanding of the article sanctions and undisputed. I'm shocked that users who had a chance to question the suggested removal on the talk page, and did not, are raising this as an issue here. (Having said this, I still recognize that someone else should have been the one to take the tag off.) hgilbert (talk) 13:26, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    • Discretionary sanctions

    The text of the discretionary sanctions states: "Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working on a page within the area of conflict (or for whom discretionary sanctions have otherwise been authorized) if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; bans on any editing related to a topic within the area of conflict or its closely related topics; restrictions on reverts or other specified behaviors; imposition of mandated external review; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project."

    I believe I have adhered to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, consistently followed consensus processes (look at the talk page for confirmation), and applied the RS policy at a high standard. Again, I ask: examine the diff over the relevant period, and the discussions on the talk page over this time (or before): what in this constitutes any contravention whatsoever of the discretionary sanctions? hgilbert (talk) 10:18, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by IRWolfie-

    Comment with several diffs and links demonstrating a long term civil POV push

    Older diffs, showing long term issue with regards to Steiner:

    • Removing source with odd reasoning. The removed source itself which is given a large paragraph in Østergaard, Edvin (1 September 2008). "Doing phenomenology in science education: a research review". Studies in Science Education. 44 (2): 93–121. doi:10.1080/03057260802264081. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help). Removing use of the source again: . Trying to remove more critical sources by claiming all sources have to be peer reviewed: Talk:Biodynamic_agriculture#List_of_non-peer_reviewed_sources_to_remove
    • Adding puffery from an otherwise unreliable advocacy source:
    • Removing mention of an encyclopedia of pseudoscience as "promotional":
    • Canvassing specific editors: after removing mainstream criticism from a professor of pharmacology: . Asking one of said editors to tag team: . More canvassing issues:

    Hgilbert is a case of long term (very long term), and slow dedicated POV pushing across all Steiner topics. It's not something that can be easily shown with diffs. It's an accumulation of incidents like the above, and small things like making a point that being listed in an encyclopedia of pseudoscience isn't the same as being listed as pseudoscience in an encyclopedia Talk:Biodynamic_agriculture#Pseudoscience. Arguing via original research to not have biodynamic agriculture be described as being characterized as pseudoscience : Talk:Biodynamic_agriculture#Agricultural_technique_vs._science, arguing that there is a lack of sources Talk:Biodynamic_agriculture#Lead while having been present in a discussion where multiple sources were presented: Talk:List_of_topics_characterized_as_pseudoscience/Archive_14#Biodynamics. These small niggly things all add up over the years though, leading to white washed articles. IRWolfie- (talk) 01:31, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    • On point 4 raised by Binksternet. used here by Hgilbert, is a copy and paste of History of Waldorf schools. That Hgilbert didn't spot that the source he was citing, which was probably his very own words since he wrote the initial Waldort history article, was copied off wikipedia should speak volumes about Hgilbert's use of sourcing, IRWolfie- (talk) 01:43, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Hgilbert, if you did make an erroneous revert, why didn't you just revert yourself? Or do you acknowledge that you were bypassing 3RR by asking another editor to do it for you? I am also aware that the diffs don't exclusively cover Waldorf, my point is that you are problematic with edits related to Steiner broadly construed (which should fall under fringe DS). IRWolfie- (talk) 10:37, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

    @Hgilbert, showing a diff over an extended period is meaningless. If I had shown, for example and said that people should spot the problem in the text, it would ignore the fact that someone went 3RR in that same period. A single Diff grouping actions from many editors won't show anything here if the other editors have been dealing with the problems you have caused, we have to look at your edits, IRWolfie- (talk) 15:26, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

    Also, blogs are reliable for the opinions of the author. If they are not used in the wikipedia tone, then they are reliable for the text they cite. IRWolfie- (talk) 15:36, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Alexbrn

    More diffs showing long-term POV pushing. Hgilbert's edits are a constant lapping tide, continually eroding the article's neutrality:

    • diff removing text that bears on the crucial question of whether Waldorf education is religious (crucial, from a COI perspective, because American state funding relies on it not being). When challenged Hgilbert stated this had been an error and reinstated this text.
    • diff inserting into the lead a claim of universal fact, that research has found Waldorf education to "to foster a high degree of social competency", ignoring the express caveats and limitations of the sources (discussion here).
    • diff making another claim of fact about the "conclusion" of a research report, ignoring the tentative and caveated nature of the original's (inconclusive) text (discussion here).
    • diff removing a {{rs}} tag from a data analysis claim sourced to the Waldorf Today web site on the grounds that it is a "well-established news outlet".
    • diff inserting (in 2006!) a claim that UNESCO had praised a Waldorf organization as being "of tremendous consequence in the conquest of apartheid", and sourcing it to a UNESCO document and to a polemical piece in a non-RS publication. The problem: the quotation appears to have been completely fabricated by the non-RS source - it's not in the UNESCO document.
    • diff inserting (in 2007!) a claim of fact that Australian Waldorf students have been found to outperform all others at University (Hgilbert also recently re-inserted this content). On investigation it turns out this brave claim is sourced to an interview with a Masters student on an Australian local radio station who "sounded as if was about to publish his thesis".

    Alexbrn 05:51, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Nil Einne

    This is mostly an aside to the case and I pointed it out at WP:ANI but it seems it's not getting across so I'll mention it again. Our COI policy does not forbid people with a COI from making controversial edits. Rather it strongly discourages people with a COI from making edits (for a number of reasons), particularly those who can be regarded as paid avocates, but says making uncontroversial edits may be okay. This was basically what the arbcom case said as well. When we say 'strongly discourage' we mean it, we strongly discourage it but we don't forbid it. This isn't like a political case where someone says 'strongly discourage/encourage' but what they actual mean is 'do or don't do this or else'. This is an important distinction because as I also remarked in the ANI, the thing to concentrate on why the edits were bad or controversial, not whether or not the editor has a COI. Concentrating on the COI misses the point because someone is not going to be blocked simply because they were editing when they had a COI, even if the edits were controversial and many question whether the COI should even come in to the block (perhaps the length of the block only). As Hgilbert mentioned, this has been reaffirmed in other cases. Nil Einne (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Jellypear

    I would like to take this opportunity to point out that in the approximately two months that I have been following the Waldorf education page, Binksternet has been involved in trying to apply sanctions to hgilbert twice already. I view this as harrassing behavior of an individual when what is really needed is productive discussion and consensus building using wikipedia guidelines and policies as our foundation for conversation. I am not going to go through the long list of diffs Binksternet provided other than to concur with Gatoclass (below) that the edits were generally reasonable because of WP:SYNTHESIS or WP:NPOV issues. It appears to me that the preferred tactic for dealing with User:Hgilbert on the part of some editors is to not discuss his edits in a timely manner and instead collect a list of complaints and see what sticks. There was ample opportunity for other editors to chime in and discuss why the COI tag should not be removed. In fact, I personally solicited it. There were also ample opportunities to discuss various edits and a few of them (ie., the heart image) had been discussed at length previously. You, Binksternet, reverted many attempts to remove the Lemuria and Heart images that Alexbrn inserted which is one of the reasons why the heart image still remained after having been discussed to the point of WP:ICANTHEARYOU.

    Discussion is the appropriate means through which one ought to deal with an editor who doesn't share your viewpoint. The image of the heart did violate image pertinence guidelines. And, it is unclear if anyone other than Eugenie Scott (as cited in the Chicago Tribune), PLANS and the BHA hold the opinion that "Waldorf education itself is pseudoscientific." These views alone do not indicate sufficient consensus such that a possibly inflammatory category should be applied to this topic. However, all of these issues can - and should be - discussed without making it about the editors themselves. That is what we have wiki policies for. If editors don't like what they see on this page the answer is to consult the applicable wiki policies, make an edit that applies the policy and then discuss it if there is a conflict. If you are solid in your sourcing and policies, the page will start to read as you want it to. Trying to get other editors sanctioned or banned is the lazy way to make this page reflect your viewpoint (not that this should be your goal anyway). Jellypear (talk) 14:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by a13ean

    Hgilbert seems like a pretty nice guy, and over the past eight years and (at the time of writing) exactly 10k edits, has made many positive contributions to wikipedia. However, he has also continually and consistently pushed a POV at pages related to the works of Rudolph Steiner, which he almost exclusively edits.

    Not all the complaints brought here have merit; the heart and Lemuria images in particular shouldn't have been in the article (although there's other images in the article with even less context). Similarly not everyone here has clean hands with regard to editing in this area, and anyone is of course welcome to investigate my conduct in this area. However, Hgilbert in particular has continued to inappropriately push a POV despite repeated warnings. I previously laid out my concerns here and include my selection of diffs below for reference. HGilbert's response at that time can be seen here.

    Several diffs illustrating civil pov-pushing

    HGilbert at Waldorf Education A selection of diffs made to WE in the past month

    • diff Replaces a sourced statement that "the topic of best teaching practice is controversial" with a paragraph saying that Waldorf kindergartens were granted a exemption from some UK guidelines on reading
    • Restores a paragraph sourced to a Die Welt article, which cherry-picks several positive points from a much more nuanced article, as discussed here. This was previously discussed here
    • diff Broadly changes the characterization of a source
    • diff Adds a broad-reaching statement sourced to a study of three classrooms in a non-reviewed research report as discussed here
    • diff Restores broadly un-encyclopedic language from a book written by an author with close ties to the WE movement, in violation of the arbitration guidelines: "Heiner Ullrich, who visited a number of schools in a long-term study, found that Waldorf schools successfully foster dedication, openness, and a love for other human beings, for nature, and for the inanimate world."
    • diff Removes a rs tag from a non-reviewed book source from someone closely involved with the WE movement (as explicitly disallowed by the arbitration case)
    • diff Removes a self-characterization that might reflect negatively on Steiner, sourced to his book, citing the arbitration guidelines

    Hgilbert has also made nearly 700 edits to the article talk page, the tone of which is best observed by browsing through the archives.

    Hgilbert at Biodynamic Agriculture

    • diff Removes this article with edit summary of "an ex-professor's newspaper editorial is not a reputable source", although the source is a full-length investigative article
    • diff Removes a characterization of "pseudoscience" and broadly pushes a more positive tone.
    • diff Changes "Biodynamic agriculture has been characterized as pseudoscience by scholars" to "Biodynamic agriculture has been the subject of serious scientific study"
    • diff Removes pseudoscience cat with misleading edit summary
    • diff Cherrypicks random facts from a study, discussed here
    • diff Removes pseudoscience from the lead
    • diff Claims that appearing in an encyclopedia of pseudoscience does not pseudoscience make, discussion here
    • Prior to many of these removals, HGilbert had agreed on the label in this discussion
    • In response to other editors concerns about non-reviewed technical publications, he attempts to make a WP:POINT by suggesting the removal of several RS publications as sources here

    Other edits by Hglibert

    Of particular concern to me is misrepresentation and cherry-picking of positive material from sources, especially foreign-language and difficult to access academic sources; compare for example the article in Die Welt linked above to what it was used to source. Removing tags, misleading edit summaries, and canvassing ( ) are also a continued concern as noted above and by others. I am sure he could contribute positively to wikipedia in other areas, but I feel that his edits to these controversial areas have not, in net, helped build a better encyclopedia.

    Statement by other editor

    Result concerning Hgilbert

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    I haven't yet made my way through all the evidence, but I might make a couple of initial observations. Firstly, topics concerning pseudoscience are problematic IMO not only because there are advocates on one side of the fence who try to promote their favoured theories, but also because there are sceptics on the other side who actively try to use Misplaced Pages as a vehicle for discrediting the same. Both approaches violate core policy and are potentially sanctionable, and a preliminary look at the evidence suggests a degree of problematic editing on both sides in this particular article, though I am yet to form an opinion as to whether any of it is sufficiently serious to warrant sanctions.

    Secondly, while Hgilbert was found to have a COI at the original case, there is a difference between COI and paid advocacy, and no-one has accused Hgilbert of the latter. AFAIK there is no compunction on editors with a mere COI to discuss changes to articles prior to making them, so Binksternet's calls for sanctions based on that criterion alone don't appear to be actionable.

    I expect to have more to say about the particular diffs a little later. Gatoclass (talk) 06:44, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    Okay, I have finished a preliminary review of the evidence. Some of the diffs are very old and not actionable. A lot of others involve discussions about reliability of sources which would be difficult to resolve here in a timely manner, if at all, and with regard to most of these diffs no evidence of edit warring has been presented. That leaves a relatively small number of diffs to take a closer look at.
    Firstly, this diff where Hgilbert removes a COI tag from the Waldorf education article. I can't think of any good reason why a user found by ARBCOM to have a COI in a given topic area should be taking it upon himself to remove such tags from an article in that topic area on which the user in question is or has been active. That alone I would consider to be a sanctionable offence. Secondly, this diff where Hgilbert adds content from a source which labels that very content with a "citation needed" tag. Hgilbert was cited for use of questionable sources in the original case, though that occurred a long time ago, and he needs to ensure that content is properly cited per WP:RS. Since Hgilbert has not previously been blocked or banned for inappropriate editing in the six years since the original case, I think a warning would probably suffice here. For removing the COI tag, I would suggest a one month topic ban for a first offence, with a warning that escalating sanctions may apply for future offences.
    One further comment: while some of Hgilbert's edits may indeed be problematic, so too IMO is some of the content he has been removing, for example, an image of a human heart and an image of the "mythical continent of Lemuria". Misuse of images, quoteboxes etc. to highlight prejudicial content as a method of circumventing WP:UNDUE is a typical tactic of POV-pushers, and these images also strike me as violations of WP:SYNTH as their immediate relevance to the article topic is questionable. Some of the other diffs also indicate similar problems. I don't know who added these images or when they were added, but warnings might also be appropriate here. Anyway that pretty much summarizes my initial response to this request; I invite further commentary from my colleagues. Gatoclass (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    @Hgilbert: You would have to point me to the case in which "an arbitration" found your COI was not relevant before I could reconsider the above recommendation. Thanks, Gatoclass (talk) 11:15, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

    After checking only whether the formal requirements for arbitration enforcement are met, it appears that all edits submitted as evidence were made prior to the warning of 11 March 2013 by Binksternet that is cited in the request. In my view, this rules out imposing sanctions based on these edits. Additionally, the diff of that warning does not meet the requirements of WP:AC/DS#Warnings, because it does not contain a link to the decision authorizing sanctions. (Yes, Hgilbert was a party to the original case, but the wording of WP:AC/DS does not make an exception to the requirement for a warning for such editors.) Accordingly, it seems that, based on the situation as described in the request, the most that we are authorized to do is issue correct warnings to all who may need them. (I also note that the request is 739 words long and needs to be shortened.)  Sandstein  18:58, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Well... yes, but that is a "courtesy notice" about a motion imposing discretionary sanctions, not a "warning" as required by WP:AC/DS#Warnings. Sorry if I appear to be splitting procedural hairs here, or in the request concerning Soosim above, but I feel that is important that we are conservative in interpreting the boundaries of the wording of the provisions that authorize us to impose wide-ranging sanctions at our own discretion.  Sandstein  20:17, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    I have always assumed that WP:AC/DS#Warnings was intended to apply to users not party to the original case. This is because the warning in effect formally notifies users that discretionary sanctions apply. For users party to the original case, the warning is not necessary because they obviously already know that discretionary sanctions apply. Gatoclass (talk) 04:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
    That is a reasonable assumption. (In this case, DS were added later, but Hgilbert was notified of that, as EdJohnston mentioned above.) It's just that I personally prefer to err on the side of caution. I understand that AGK (talk · contribs) is working on motions to clarify that DS require only a notification rather than a warning about the case. I prefer to wait on that clarification, but you are of course free to proceed as you deem appropriate.  Sandstein  05:41, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Considering that the request and the statements (notably that by IRWolfie-) are grounds for concern about the neutrality of Hgilbert's editing, I've issued formally correct warnings concerning Waldorf education and pseudoscience at . I noted that this is without prejudice to the definitive disposition of this request, in the event that any of you are of the view that there is a basis for sanctions even prior to these warnings.  Sandstein  18:56, 13 March 2013 (UTC)