| Revision as of 02:51, 14 March 2013 editDrmies (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Oversighters, Administrators407,730 edits Closing debate, result was delete← Previous edit | Revision as of 20:23, 14 March 2013 edit undo74.130.148.181 (talk) As per subject's conversation with Legal Wikimedia Foundation the slanderous remarks have been removed. If any question, contact Steve at legal@wikimedia.orgNext edit → | ||
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| The result was '''delete'''. Close per SNOW and especially per DGG's final comment. ] (]) 02:51, 14 March 2013 (UTC) | The result was '''delete'''. Close per SNOW and especially per DGG's final comment. ] (]) 02:51, 14 March 2013 (UTC) | ||
| ===]=== | |||
| :{{la|Hoopla Worldwide}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks"></span>) | |||
| :({{Find sources|Hoopla Worldwide}}) | |||
| From the person who brought us ] (]) and ] (]) comes an advert for another Hay publicity company. It is a ridiculously bloated mess of ], ], ], deception, bad sources and attempts to assert ].<br> | |||
| Examples of misuse of sources. | |||
| * I'm not the person who created "Jonathan Hay (publicist)". Accusations of deception are uncalled for and false for this artcile.] (]) 23:19, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :The article contains the sentence "Hay and Hale conceptualized and published "Malibu Nanny: The True Adventures of the Former Kardashian Nanny" with Radar Online, a book by Pam Behan." which is supported by three references. The only mentions of Hoopla, Hay of Hale found in these references is "though it can be noted that Jonathan Hay was the publicist promoting Behan's book" in the third, first two have no mention. That passing mention does not verify the claims made. | |||
| * He published it with Radar, which is a fact because it says so IN the book. Look in the first few pages in the book that is online as free download. It's right there. It will take you less than two minutes to find. Another FALSE accusation. ] (]) 23:19, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :The article contains the sentence "Jonathan Hay and Justin Melo (Hoopla's A&R) worked with NFL Star Chris Johnson of the Tennessee Titans, Ice Cube for his RareInk Art campaign which helped raise money for the Minority AIDS Project and with Twista on the film "Mr Immortality: The Life and Times of Twista"." This has eight sources to talk about something which some people from Hoopla were involved in but no verification indication Hoopla did. The articles about Ice Cube do not even metion Hay or Hoopla. This is bombardment to try establish inherited notability. | |||
| This piece has a huge mass of sources but most are not ]. A mix of sources associated with Hoopla, blogs, press releases, sources that don't mention Hoopla, passing mentions, associated topics, gossip pieces. In this mess I'm not seeing any independent reliable sources that provide any depth of coverage.<br> | |||
| To sidestep all the hype, bad sourcing and misrepresentation the best idea may to go back to created by an independent editor trying to rescue something frm the that was there. That stub has 6 sources (+1 repeated). | |||
| * I wouldn't have a problem going back to the stub. My problem is you personally attacking me. ] (]) 23:19, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :1. reproduction of press release of routine announcement. | |||
| * This[REDACTED] article is not based upon a press release.] (]) 00:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :2. passing mention "(courtesy of Hoopla Worldwide)" | |||
| * The passing mention of "courtesy of Hoopla Worldwide" would show proof to that sentence and artist. We are talking about a record label here. Any record company would only have a "passing mention".] (]) 00:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :3. passing mention "(courtesy of media mammoth Hoopla Worldwide)" | |||
| * The mention of "media mammoth hoopla worldwide" is for that statement only.] (]) 00:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :4. passing mention "Cover art by: Sabrina Hale of Hoopla Worldwide" | |||
| * Cover art by Sabrina Hale of Hoopla Worldwide is simply that. Do you expect a whole article based on the artwork? It says Hoopla did artwork for that album with the direct source and credit. ] (]) 00:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :5. passing mention "shout to my folks over at Hoopla Media Group/Hoopla Worldwide!" | |||
| * that's in reference to an artist acknowledging Hoopla Worldwide that he is sourced for.] (]) 00:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :6. passing mention "According to a recent press release, the group linked up with Hoopla Worldwide/WIDEawake Entertainment for the album." | |||
| *it's pretty clear Hoopla Worldwide and WIDEawake released music, not only from internet searches but from the actual product itself. ] (]) 00:29, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :7. see 1 | |||
| Nothing here provides the depth of coverage asked for by ]. None have the audience beyond "media of limited interest". I found nothing better. ] (]) 10:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Delete'''. As per nominator. Bogus sources, unsourced content, promotional, nonnotable company, possible copyright violations (long quotes), on and on..--] (]) 13:06, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the ]. ] (]) 15:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)</small> | |||
| :<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the ]. ] (]) 15:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)</small> | |||
| * '''Delete''' In the handful of reference links I followed, I couldn't find anything remotely resembling "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" (]). ] (]) 17:35, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' I don't usually go for the "per nom" line, but duffbeerforme's analysis of why this is a puff piece with a thin veneer of lipstick is spot-on. Thoroughly fails ]. <span style="color:red; font-size: smaller; font-weight: bold;">§]</span><sup>]</sup> 17:47, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| **'''Keep''' There is plenty here in this article that make it notable. I agree, too many sources - but look at all the legitmate sources. His user ] has went and attacked all my pages. Hasn't tried to help, just flags everything.<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) time, day month year (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> | |||
| ***The argument isn't that there are "too many sources" but rather that they're either bogus or unreliable sources. Which ones are you thinking are legit? (Upon first glance, its hard to tell. I'm leaning towards "Delete" myself unless some better sources are shown...) ] ] 18:35, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ****I feel he should challenge the unrelibale sources, not the whole article. This has sources from ESPN, HipHopDX, The Source Magazine, SOHH, Nappy Roots and so many more. Here are some of the reliable sources: | |||
| http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.17214/title.dx-news-bits-m-phazes-and-dj-rhettmatic-death-row-records-michael-eric-dyson | |||
| http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/trending/post/_/id/7794/media-blitz-go-up-d-wade-book-de-niro | |||
| http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.22110/title.wideawake-death-row-records-reportedly-being-sold-in-wake-of-parent-companys-bankruptcy | |||
| http://www.aberdeennews.com/lifestyle/aan-aberdeen-woman-included-in-new-christmas-cd-20121124,0,1452929.story | |||
| http://www.thesource.com/articles/244124?thesource-prod=l7epeadp2hgvd96vrvlvrnitf6 | |||
| http://www.ballerstatus.com/2012/09/13/lil-eazy-e-talks-death-row-records/ | |||
| :Okay, so for starters, let's just look at one source, the ESPN one. The term shows up once, as ''"You can listen to or download “#REDPLAGUE” below, exclusively, courtesy of JHP/Hoopla Worldwide."''. That's it. That is absolutely not significant coverage in a reliable third party source. That's one, minor, passing mention in an article largely about other topics. In no way does that source help the topic, Hoopla WW, meet the ]. If the other sources are like this, your argument is in rough shape... ] ] 19:35, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :that one source ESPN is sourced for that one small part. Click on the other ones I put up. :) ] (]) 19:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::'''Delete'''. I've clicked them. The first HipHopDX source copies a press release (the same boastful phrasing used there can be found elsewhere). The second has only a passing mention of Hoopla, refereing to someone as a former Hoopla president. The Aberdeen News piece has a mere passing mention, referring to Hoopla as the publisher of a recording. The The Source piece has a two-sentence mention. The Ballerstatus has Hoopla mentioned in two sentences. Even without questioning the weight of these sources, none of them are the sort of in-depth third-party coverage that the notability standards call for. --] (]) 20:32, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' per nom. Pretty clearly part of an advertising/self-promotion attempt. ] - <b><FONT COLOR="#FF0000">St</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF5500">ar</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF8000">bli</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FFC000">nd</FONT></b> 20:37, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::Hello again Nat. The Source article you mentioned with the two sentence mention is about Hoopla Worldwide. LOOK at the title of the article. It's a story about them. Go through all the links.] (]) 21:01, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *<s>'''Keep'''</s> look at a Google search of all the reports on Hoopla Worldwide. It has hundreds and hundreds of stuff about them (more so then the pages you have created Nat). We have three people here who are saying "delete" who attacked this page back before. ] (]) 21:08, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :That people who are saying "delete" have been involved with this page and with similar dubious pages that you were working on before doesn't disqualify them in any way. I recommend that you review ]; sheer Google hit count does not enter into it. I have read the article in question, at 163 words (many of them taken direct from a press release), it is not an in-depth anything, much less in-depth on Hoopla. --] (]) 21:33, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::Nat you are bring dishonest with what you said by saying that out of 63 sources, most are about a press release. That's not true at all. Many things in-depth about Hoopla just look at it ] (]) 22:05, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::You may wish to reread what was said before accusing anyone of dishonesty. In no way did I say "out of 63 sources, most are about a press release". I said "I have read the article in question," (addressing the article that you told me to "LOOK at the title of the article") "at 163 words (many of them taken direct from a press release), it is not an in-depth anything". Those words are here for all to see. At this point, every respondent to this AFD but you have found the evidence of notability wanting; if you wish to see this article remain, I suggest that you identify specific sources that meet the notability guidelines. --] (]) 22:29, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I didn't say that Nat. You said, "at 163 words many of them taken direct from a press release". And that is dishonest. My response was (in reference to 63 sources on wiki about hoopla) "you are bring dishonest with what you said by saying that out of 63 sources, most are about a press release." Most of the article ISN'T from a press release, I know because I gathered the sources. I've indentified the notablility in the article. The person that flagged it did it out of a personal attack and has been harassing me (which I've contacted Misplaced Pages about). Your friend Tomwsulcer who also agreed with every duffbeerforme attack on me within minutes is what could be classified as "Meatpuppetry". A "deletion" of a[REDACTED] page shouldn't be based on what's said here, it should be based on the actual article. Because it seems like nobody thus far is really reading or doing any research on Hoopla.] (]) 22:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Repeating the same false accusation does not make it true. I made zero references to "63 sources". I was addressing one article, an article that you told me to look at, . It has 163 words. If you check the quote from Lil Eazy-E, which makes up a significant portion of that short article, you'll find it on other websites, such as one that . As for your assumption that Tomwsulcer is my friend, to the best of my knowledge I've not met that editor. Deletion of a Misplaced Pages article for notability is not based on the article, it's based on the topic. You may feel free to withdraw and apologize for your baseless accusation of dishonesty, and for your false attribution of a statement to me. --] (]) 23:48, 11 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::The article that we are talking about here "The Source" with the link you listed: http://www.thesource.com/articles/244124 - The title of that very article has Hoopla Worldwide in it. It says "Lil Eazy-E Talks with Hoopla Worldwide/Death Row Entertainment". That's the whole basis of the story about HOOPLA signing this artist. Did you want the writer of the magazine to keep repeating the words "Hoopla" when it's the subject and headline of the article? Please read it again. Ballerstatus does mention a press release, but does that matter really? I'm sure the media's job is to fact-check press releases. right? And Nat, what you said wasn't true which has been established. ] (]) 00:17, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::Does it matter if it's from a press release? Yes. Our notability guidelines specify press releases as not being significant sources, and articles that are mere representations or summary of press releases are generally viewed the same way in notability discussions. (As I have before, I recommend that you acquaint yourself with the Misplaced Pages notability guidelines.) A 163 word article is not an in-depth discussion of ''anything''. "And Nat, what you said wasn't true which has been established." Which thing I said? So far, your smear campaign has been focused on the bizarre description of me "saying that out of 63 sources, most are about a press release". You have not been able to point to where I made such a claim, and my statements are here to see, as well as the editing history of the article. You may wish to consider whether your comments will be taken more seriously if you admit to an error, or if you just rely on repeating the same attack when it can be seen as false to anyone reading this page. Your focusing on this has not seemed to stop other editors from voicing their concerns about the article. (And really, as impressive sources go, that an artist ''might'' sign with someone seems underwhelming.) --] (]) 01:14, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' - Sources so far are either unreliable, or trivial, passing mention that doesn't count towards establishing notability. ] ] 00:44, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''', sources either unreliable or passing mentions, notability not established. ] (]) 00:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Name the UNRELIABLE sources and PASSING mentions. THIS is a COMPANY with factual HISTORY and SOURCES. Looking at your history of you all above, you guys can't really say what a notable record company is because you don't understand it. If this is really what[REDACTED] stands on with UNRELIABLE editors then this is a joke and I want the THOUSANDS of DOLLARS I've donated to Misplaced Pages back. I'm calling my bank. Misplaced Pages is corrupt! I've been harrased, threatened, abused and some of these same users above have taken their actions OFFLINE and have personally affected my life. Enough is a enough!!!!! ] (]) 01:03, 12 March 2013 (UTC)''' | |||
| **I pointed out one right away, and all you had to say was "pick another one". Do you really require me to do this for each and every one of your sources? Is it really coincidence that I just happened to pick the one exception of the bunch? (Additionally, if you truly feel you've been harassed and all that, file a complaint ]. True or not, this is not the place to discuss that, and it won't change the outcome of this article deletion.) ] ] 02:18, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| **Alright, here's another. http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.22110/title.wideawake-death-row-records-reportedly-being-sold-in-wake-of-parent-companys-bankruptcy - I don't know if it's reliable or not, but again, nothing but an insignificant, passing mention mention. The only part relevant to Hoopla says ''"According to former Hoopla president and former Death Row publicist Jonathan Hay, New Solutions Financial Corp., a Canadian company that owns WIDEawake Death Row, has gone bankrupt and is selling both the label and catalog to a publicly held company."''. Once again, nothing but a trivial, passing mention. It says nothing about the company, and does nothing to establish ]. ] ] 02:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ***'''Comment''' - Causeandedit, you're not helping yourself by posting bolded rants that are accompanied by the typical cries of corruption/abuse/harrassment when one doesn't get one's way. It doesn't matter if you donated $1,000 or a $1,000,000 to Misplaced Pages - that doesn't give you carte blanche to use it as a platform to promote a company. Buy your own domain if that's your goal. Thus far, you've only proven the company exists. Big whoop. Tons of companies exist, that doesn't mean they're notable by Misplaced Pages standards (which I suspect you are not familiar with or even marginally interested in learning). As for the unreliable sources - I can give you two examples right away: is wholly unreliable. It's a gossip blog which is not considered reliable. Same goes for . Incidentally, neither of these sources mention the company and only seem to support that a book written about the Kardashians. The rest of the sources that ''do'' mention the company do so in passing (ex ) which still does not establish the company's notability. To do that, you need to find sources written by reliable sources ''not'' connected with the company. If this company were actually forging some new ground or was noteworthy, a magazine or some other business or entertainment related media outlet would have written about it. Sites like HipHopDx are not writing about the company, they're basically reposting PR releases from the company itself. That's not independent reporting. The article is a puff piece, plain and simple. Instead of donating to Misplaced Pages (and the childishly demanding that your money be refunded because the community is calling this company's notability into question ), you should have used the alleged $1,000 to start your own website so you can write about the company unencumbered by silly things like reliable sources. ] (]) 02:37, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete''' - Based on the comments above and my own look at the content and sources, this article fails to meet ]. ] (]) 02:37, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *Causeandedit, I hope you'll report those abusers, if you have an idea of what Misplaced Pages accounts they're using. Have you looked at ]? If you wrote an article about a company you work for (and I'm not saying you did), your abusers may have deduced your identity from the article. That's one good reason not to write about ] ]. —] 02:40, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| **Rybec, I think you should be very, very careful with using the word "abuser" lightly. ] (]) 03:54, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ***Good point. ''Supposed abusers'' would have been better. I have no idea how much, or how little, truth there is to what he said. —] 01:32, 14 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Comment''' Usertalk 24.224.46.51, you say that the Kardashian Book makes no mention about them on Radar, but cleary you aren't clicking on the last two words in the Radar article (and hundereds of other news reports about this book) where it telling you to click here. Because if you where, you would see it takes you to a jonathanhaypublicity.com site and a download that has all the credits in the free book download. You should take a look again - http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/07/kardashian-nanny-tells-all-new-book-radar-exclusive/ It's all there.] (]) 05:00, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Comment''' You also say HiphopDX only makes a passing mention of Hoopla Worldwide, but once again there is Hoopla Worldwide in the headline of the story with this news report about the company. See here http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.21450/title.hoopla-worldwide-severs-relationship-with-tha-chill-of-comptons-most-wanted ] (]) 05:06, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| **'''Comment''' - ''You're'' the one who listed off that the other HipHopDX source. I don't know why you're complaining when I'm just working on what you give me... ] ] 12:37, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| * Seems like people are only skimming through news articles and not actually reading them, because everything is THERE. ] (]) 05:06, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| **I've chosen two at random to read ''thoroughly'', and both were passing mentions at best. Do you understand what "significant coverage" means? It means articles are actually focused on "Hoopla Records" as the topic. So many of your sources are not about Hoopla Records, but rather, about a song/artist related to them, and then at the end it has a single sentence stating "Oh by the way, they're signed to Hoopla Records". That's signifcant coverage for the song/artist, ''not'' Hoopla Records. ] ] 12:50, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete'''. Doesn't meet ] based on the sources in the article. I have also checked google news, google books and ] and can't find anything that would make suitable sources. Since everyone apart from Causeandedit seems convinced of this, maybe it is time to invoke ]? ] (]) 11:56, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' - Update: Article creator, as of writing this, has been indef blocked for spam/advertizing, for what its worth... ] ] 17:52, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| User ] has a personal vendetta for any page related to ]. The said user has flagged everything even closely associated with this page. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:16, 13 March 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :It seems less like a personal vendetta, and more like the fact that every article he had created was promotional garbage... ] ] 00:44, 14 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| ::TinyDancer1489 has a similar writing style as Causeandedit. Also more Hoopla junk .--] (]) 01:10, 14 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Speedy Delete''' This is very much not my field, but I have rarely seen an article so throughly full of fluff; I was especially struck at the controversy section and the long quotation. I would do the Speedy myself, except that it is so far outside where I usually work that I have insufficient confidence. If they are notable , presumably someone will write a decent article , but this material should not even remain in the history. ''']''' (]) 01:28, 14 March 2013 (UTC) | *'''Speedy Delete''' This is very much not my field, but I have rarely seen an article so throughly full of fluff; I was especially struck at the controversy section and the long quotation. I would do the Speedy myself, except that it is so far outside where I usually work that I have insufficient confidence. If they are notable , presumably someone will write a decent article , but this material should not even remain in the history. ''']''' (]) 01:28, 14 March 2013 (UTC) | ||
| :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page. <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div> | :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page. <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div> | ||
Revision as of 20:23, 14 March 2013
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Close per SNOW and especially per DGG's final comment. Drmies (talk) 02:51, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete This is very much not my field, but I have rarely seen an article so throughly full of fluff; I was especially struck at the controversy section and the long quotation. I would do the Speedy myself, except that it is so far outside where I usually work that I have insufficient confidence. If they are notable , presumably someone will write a decent article , but this material should not even remain in the history. DGG ( talk ) 01:28, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.