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Cptnono

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Cptnono

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Nableezy 07:08, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Cptnono (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 02:09, 8 April 2013 1st revert
2. 06:12, 9 April 2013 Revert at 24hrs +4:03
3. 06:18, 10 April 2013 Revert at 24hrs +0:06

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

I can't find his being formally notified of the case, but he's been sanctioned multiple times and has brought multiple complaints here, so obviously aware.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The edit summary of the last edit should suffice for the cause of this request. I feel like I might be gaming he system by waiting 24hrs. Yes, yes you are gaming he system by waiting 24hrs. The information on the Golan's status had previously been in the body, and was removed by another user. I added it elsewhere, Cptnono reverts without comment on the talk page. He is reverted and waits for 24 hours and 6 whole minutes to revert again. That after the prior revert had taken place 28 hours and 3 minutes after he his prior revert.

Cailil, the last two reverts are the same, and further they have nothing to do with the inclusion or exclusion of the wikilink Archaeology of Israel. Your second diff of my supposed edit-warring is my requesting a citation, and the third is rewriting the text to correspond to the cited reference when one was not supplied. I cannot tell how either of those diffs show me edit-warring over anything. nableezy - 15:09, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Cailil, please explain how adding a {{cn}} tag or rewriting the text to conform to the source when no additional source was provided is part of a slow edit war. nableezy - 17:25, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Bump. nableezy - 14:42, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Can somebody please close this? Been open for a while now. nableezy - 14:41, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Cptnono

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Cptnono

The second diff was not intentionally waiting 24 hours (coincidence). Admittedly, the third was. That is fairly minor and it should be noted that Nableezy said he was not going to engage in discussion† even though I opened an RfC while Supreme Deliciousness completely ignored the talk page altogether. This is a knee-jerk AE request with very little meat.

I also did use the talk page (forgive the typos my keyboard is gummy on this machine) but: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3ARujm_el-Hiri&diff=549631456&oldid=549460921 http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Rujm_el-Hiri&diff=prev&oldid=549255671 detailed edit summaries +an RfC request

I took a break from editing and played by the rules. I don't celebrate division on my user page by listing every AE discussion I have been part of and assumed we could grow past our turbulent history. I am not going to start throwing accusations around and providing diffs for why I believe both Nableezy and SD should be topic banned because that is how these AEs get out of hand. But if any admin feels that I deserve to be sanctioned then I would appreciate 24 hours for a proper response. I also do not think Tim should be allowed to act in this case due to my previous (and still unresolved) comments regarding potential bias.

†Cptnono (talk) 07:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

It should be (reluctantly) noted that I was sanctioned by you, Sandstein(AGK) years ago and you(he) let me know that disputing it under the grounds that I was not formally notified could appear to be wikilawyering. So I am aware of the sanctions. This also is not a 1/rr infraction. If anything it is edit warring. However, I only "edit warred" with two reverts over 2 days without discussion from the parties I was reverting. (not asking to be in trouble just trying to be up front)Cptnono (talk) 08:18, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Apologies for getting you and AGK confused. I think I am basically getting at: If you think I crossed a line with the third diff then give me a warning or even a minor sanction. I feel that Nableezy intentionally goaded me then there was some slight tag teaming. I might be overreacting and over-analyzing it. But that third diff (the only one that I see as a problem) was very minor. I tried to do right by using the talk page instead of running to AE. I don't want to circumvent punishment (since any sanction would be barely addressing "disruption") on a technicality.Cptnono (talk) 08:37, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I am torn right now. I was too busy to log in the last couple days and was happy to see that I was not blocked since I did make that single revert that may have crossed the line. From a quick scan of the thoughts from some comments: NO, the ongoing semantics over "if" "in" "of" Israel have absolutely no bearing on this case. We can (and probably should) open an RfC on it but right now we should be discussing if I crossed a line. The first and second reverts are not a problem. The third (and only problematic one) was me making a revert when the editors refused to use the talk page. Go ahead and levy an appropriate sanction for that single edit. It was not multiple edits and ongoing content disputes are not within the scope of this request.

Also, can we be open about what this is? I admittedly made a revert that could raise eyebrows but we all know this AE continues a battlefield mentality. You guys are counting diffs between Nab, SD, and BS. That is not needed. This is an article about archaeology! Cptnono (talk) 07:30, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Cptnono

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I agree that this conduct would normally be sanctionable as gaming the system to edit-war. But even if an editor is already aware of the case or has previously been sanctioned, this does not change the fact that a warning as described in WP:AC/DS#Warnings is still a formal requirement for imposing sanctions (see my view at WP:ARCA#Statement by Sandstein, issue 2). In addition, I'm of the view that WP:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction is unenforceable at least if the editor at issue has not received an individual warning about it (see my view at WP:ARCA#Statement by Sandstein, issue 1). In that ARCA thread, T. Canens notes (correctly, in my view) that this requirement can be satisfied with a warning in an editnotice. However, the article at issue, Rujm el-Hiri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), has no such editnotice. I'm therefore of the view that we can do nothing here but issue the required warning to Cptnono.  Sandstein  08:12, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, I note that Cptnono has waived the warning requirement (if any), so we can examine the matter on the merits. I'll post comments about that later.  Sandstein  09:16, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

• Given that these are 3 2 different edits being reverted I'm inclinded to be a bit more lenient. That said this is clearly an attempt to "wait out the restriction". Which is unacceptable. Cptnono has in fact accepted this about the 3rd revert above. Given that its 12 months since Cptnono was blocked (for anything) and given that it's over 2 years since their last ArbPia enforcement blocked (which was 3 hours) I would suggest a 24-72 hour block. For gaming 1RR, editwarring and tendentiousness.
  The reason I'm suggesting this is beacuse from a perusal of the talk page of that article I can see a significant level of tendentious editting by a number of users (Biosketch's talk activity being the worst example). The Arab-Israel Misplaced Pages conflict has been imported there - that's what the RFARs are designed to stop. With that in mind whether there is a sanctions notice on the page is irrelevant, the users involved are bringing that issue to that page and frankly I'd support a wider investigation here into the editwarring at the heart of Cptnono's reverts above.
  For instance looking at just one of the reverts in context, the slow edit war over the inclusion of the wikilink and phrase of "archaeology of Israel" goes back weeks and includes 3 editors, Cptnono, Nableezy, Biosketch. An inital removal was made by Supreme Deliciousness but they have not editwarred. This editwar has dominated the edits to this article since February 2013. In fact in the 12 month period between March 2012 and March 2013 there were only 3 edits. Since then there have been over 30 edits (roughly 30% of which is this editwar). With that in mind I'm inclinded to at least suggest a page ban all for 3 editors: Cptnono, Nabeelzy, and Biosketch--Cailil 14:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Agree with the assessment regarding Cptnono as concerns gaming and editwarring, likewise Biosketch (who I've notified of this thread), not so sure about Nableezy, whose edits, in part, go beyond sterile back-and-forth editwarring. I'm not a fan of short blocks, as they tend to be punitive rather than preventative. Ultimately, if an editor can't contribute collegially in this general topic area, what they need is a topic ban. I'm frankly unsure what should be done. In and of itself, the edit war is rather trivial, but I am strongly disappointed in having to see the same usernames (notably Cptnono and Nableezy) in ARBPIA AE disputes for years and years on end.  Sandstein  17:25, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I can see your point re: Nableezy but like you I am dismayed at seeing their continued border-line behaviour in relation to the RFAR ruling. There comes a point when line-stepping is in and of itself not helping the encyclopedia. That said, I agree that in this instance (if viewed in isolation) thier role was not the worst. Unfortunately I think we have to open the can of worms, because if this incident is a spill-over conflict (and it has all the hallmarks of one IMHO) it behooves us to find out where/how it started. And in my view if we have a situation where the same editors are fighting the same (fundamentally off-wiki) conflict on multiple articles we have to stop it. Or else we'll just be here again for the upteenth time.
On a side note, and I'm not necessarily advocating this, the last time that I saw situation at AE like this, mandated external review would have been the preferred sanction but at that point it wasn't available. MER is something that could be considered, but it would require significant work from the reviewing sysop/mentor. As real life (i.e work) commitments preclude me from being able to do this I'm loathe to ask someone else to, but that said it remains an option--Cailil 18:10, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

This MER thing looks rather time-consuming and complicated; I can't imagine it working reliably over any length of time.  Sandstein  08:16, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

• Since the submitted reverts show Cptnono gaming the WP:1RR restriction, I would favor a sanction of some kind. The discussion at Talk:Rujm el-Hiri#wikilink about the definition of 'Israeli archaeology' suggests that some opportunities for compromise were missed. In that discussion it looks to me that Biosketch and Cptnono are playing word games to make this site part of the domain of 'Israeli archaeology', due merely to the fact that some of the scientists who explored the site were Israeli. If they can win this argument will it give additional proof that the Golan Heights are part of Israel? It should not tax anyone's brain to come up with politically neutral ways of stating (a) where the archaeological site is located, (b) who the scientists were who studied the site. The page at Talk:Rujm el-Hiri looks to be mostly a nationalist turf war and not much about archaeology. EdJohnston (talk) 04:19, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

• As in the above case, I agree with your analysis. A medium-term topic ban for the two users who are using this article about a completely apolitical archaeological site to "mark the territory" for one side in the territorial dispute about the Golan Heights appears appropriate. But I can't find a previous warning per WP:AC/DS#Warnings for Biosketch; if there is none, all we can do is issue one.  Sandstein  08:14, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

On the note about Biosketch not being formally warned, as far as I'm concerned any user who has taken part in 14 ARBPIA AE requests (5 of which they actually started and one of which led to them being cautioned about misusing AE) has been "constructively warned" and gives up the right to ignorance of the sanctions. If Biosketch wants to hold others to account vis-a-vis the RFARs they have to know that the sanctions exist, historically that would have been the finding here, however I am cognisant of the current WP:ARCA discussion about AE procedures. IMHO the actions of importing an off-wiki agenda, that has had long running attempts at resolution on-wiki, to an article where it previously has not occurred are extremely serious and are probably worthy of a WP:DE sanction outside of the RFAR. But if it is the consensus here that recent 'clarifications' on AC/DS have in fact tied our hands (at least until "early next month") we are left with the options of revisiting this or simply warning Biosketch, both of which are unsatisfactory. Another option is to sanction and let them appeal, personally in this case that action may in fact led to clarity for us at AE and would be consistent with how others have been treated in past cases. But agree we have a strange situation here--Cailil 16:37, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Having taken a look at the talk page of the article, there are ridiculous word games being played by Cptnono and actually, to a greater extent, BioSketch (the conversation where he pretends for five posts not to understand what the problem with linking to Archaeology of Israel is would be almost comical if it weren't clearly disruptive). I would support a sanction of some sort on both, and agree with Cailil that sanctioning and allowing appeal is the best route - it is not possible, as Cptnono admits, that regular editors are not aware of the restrictions. Black Kite (talk) 09:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Could someone please close this? The last comment is three days old. I'd do it, but contrary to popular opinion, I don't actually want to be the one responsible for making a decision about every single one of these ... refreshingly frank exchanges of views.  Sandstein  16:55, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

• Closing: Since Rujm el-Hiri is a spillover from the traditional dispute over ownership of the Golan Heights we should take this seriously. There was one suggestion above to just issue bans from the Rujm el-Hiri article. Lately it has been uncommon to issue article bans in the ARBPIA area. Usually any bans given are from the whole I/P topic. The discussion above indicates that Biosketch should be already aware of the ARBPIA discretionary sanctions. For this reason, and per the other comments above, Cptnono is banned from the topic of the Arab-Israeli conflict on both articles and talk pages for six months and Biosketch for three months. No agreement was reached here on a sanction for Nableezy, though one admin referred to 'their continued border-line behavior' and another noted that he was "strongly disappointed in having to see the same usernames (notably Cptnono and Nableezy) in ARBPIA AE disputes for years and years on end". EdJohnston (talk) 20:03, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by astronomer28

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