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Chalkidiki Greek

Chalkidiki Greek (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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DePRODed to bring here. This came up at ANI after a CSD was rejected, but there seems to be some dispute over whether it is actually a dialect, thus notable enough for an inclusion. Much of the content is dubious, according to those much smarter than I am, but I feel that taking a week to discuss and review is best, and if the topic is not notable as I suspect, then deletion would be the right course of action. Dennis Brown - 2¢ - © - @ - Join WER 23:34, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

• Delete you are right, some of the information is very questionable.--TV Man 13 23:52, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

• Delete. Sigh. Why did you de-prod it, when you don't actually want to keep it? Why do we have to "take a week to discuss" when nobody has so far indicated any interest in keeping it in the first place? This is a waste of my time; now I have to quite unnecessarily restate the whole thing all over again. So, once more: The article as it stood was not just full of amateurishly imprecise descriptions and obvious errors; there is also no sign the topic is a viable, linguistically significant dialectological unit to begin with. It makes sense to have a separate article on "dialect of X" only if X is linguistically separated from neighbouring dialects in a significant way, i.e. if there is a noteworthy linguistic boundary that coincides with the geographical boundaries of X. There is no indication at all that Xalkidiki is a unit in this sense. The only linguistic feature that the article tries to describe in some detail, the vowel reductions, is not characteristic of Xalkidiki as such, but is shared with almost the entirety of the northern and central Greek mainland, and as such it is appropriately treated in Varieties of Modern Greek. Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:57, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
• Delete t there seems to be some dispute over whether it is actually a dialect Really? Where is this dispute? Me, Taivo and FutPerf have all said it's not noteworthy. Nobody else expressed an opinion. — Lfdder (talk) 01:15, 16 Ma 2013 (UTC)
• Delete: non-notable pbp 01:30, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
• Delete. "Dispute"? What are you talking about? That's a load of horse manure since not a single person was saying it was a dialect. There's no "dispute" whatsoever. All the actual linguists in the discussion were in perfect agreement--get rid of this turkey. --Taivo (talk) 02:58, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
• Delete per the expert opinions of several respected editors. There is nothing wrong with debating such matters here at AfD, and it is unfortunate when matters get so heated, when simple adherence to our normal procedures almost always yields the same result. I encourage both sides in this dispute to "chillax" as the kids say, laugh a bit, and move on to productive work improving the encyclopedia. It's a pretty damned good encyclopedia, after all. Let's make it better. Cullen Let's discuss it 03:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
• Delete. Amateurishness in the writing or organization of the article should not in itself be relevant to deletion, if I understand the spirit of the policies, but there is no indication in the article (or, apparently, anywhere else) that the subject is notably distinguishable from the larger regional dialect, per PFS. Varieties of Modern Greek seems reasonably thorough, and doesn’t mention the peninsula at all. (I guess the local dialect would be included under Macedonian or Thracian, but IANAL.)—Odysseus1479 (talk) 05:50, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

• Delete - the "dispute" is actually very simple - the person who created the article asserted that it was a dialect. Others (including language experts) dispute that. Entirely appropriate that it be raised at ANI, then de-prodded and raised here. The comprehensive consensus so far should ensure it never comes back. Everyone needs to calm down and some need to realise they are fighting an invisible enemy here. Beyond that, those expert opinions are obviously in agreement and that agreement seems to be that this should be deleted. So be it. Stalwart111 06:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
• Delete Now that the proper procedures have been followed, this article can, legitimately, go. That ANI thread went completely beserk, but the general consensus there was for deletion anyway. Also, people really need to get off the nominator's back, who should be commended for actually following the sensible route of doing what Lfdder should've done at the very beginning. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 07:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oh, and PROD wasn't "proper"? We've got one admin on a power trip, another one swearing at anyone who dares disagree with him, and another one who might very well be suffering from tunnel vision; and they're all friends. It only makes sense that they don't wanna look like complete asses about the whole thing, and so we've got this AfD. Give me a break. — Lfdder (talk) 09:38, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, because PROD is for non-controversial deletions. Given the furore around this whole event, this is not a non-controversial issue. Also, for all your complaining, this is likely to be closed as a snow delete, which would occur sooner than a PROD-based deletion. Someone needs to drop the stick, and stop abusing everyone who disagrees with you (or doesn't fully agree with you). The ANI thread was a farce; but remember who started it. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 09:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

• The controversy wasn't about actually deleting the article; nobody said that it shouldn't be deleted. Stop being dishonest. Right, so I'm to blame for how other people acted 'cos "I started it"? How do you even come up with this rubbish? — Lfdder (talk) 10:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

  I strongly suggest that you start assuming good faith and stop calling people dishonest. Nobody is going to die if the article stays there one more day. It stayed several years, and nobody died yet.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

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