Revision as of 02:54, 2 June 2013 editThe Devil's Advocate (talk | contribs)19,695 edits →Statement by (username)← Previous edit | Revision as of 06:12, 2 June 2013 edit undoSandstein (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators188,549 edits →Proudbolsahye/Ninetoyadome/Yerevanci: correctionNext edit → | ||
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== Proudbolsahye/Ninetoyadome/Yerevanci == | == Proudbolsahye/Ninetoyadome/Yerevanci == | ||
{{hat|1=Ninetoyadome warned, NovaSkola topic-banned for six months. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 06:12, 2 June 2013 (UTC)}} | |||
===Request concerning Proudbolsahye/Ninetoyadome/Yerevanci=== | ===Request concerning Proudbolsahye/Ninetoyadome/Yerevanci=== | ||
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 18:32, 1 June 2013 (UTC) | ; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : ] (]) 18:32, 1 June 2013 (UTC) | ||
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We lack the required diffs of warnings per ] and of notifications of this request for each named user. Also, it is not clear which part of the request relates to which of the three named users, and whether the complainant means to allege that they are sock- or meatpuppets of each other. I will close this rather confusing request without action if all required information is not supplied within one hour of the complainant's next edit, or after 12 hours, whichever is earlier. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 20:57, 1 June 2013 (UTC) | We lack the required diffs of warnings per ] and of notifications of this request for each named user. Also, it is not clear which part of the request relates to which of the three named users, and whether the complainant means to allege that they are sock- or meatpuppets of each other. I will close this rather confusing request without action if all required information is not supplied within one hour of the complainant's next edit, or after 12 hours, whichever is earlier. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 20:57, 1 June 2013 (UTC) | ||
:Right, here's my assessment based on an admittedly cursory review of the ill-presented evidence: The edit warring at {{la|Guba mass grave}} merits ] warnings for all involved who haven't already got one (i.e., Proudbolsahye and Ninetoyadome), as does the edit by Ninetoyadome identified by The Devil's Advocate. Because of the lack of prior warnings (and notification diffs), no further action can be taken with respect to these two at this point. There are no diffs by Yerevanci in evidence that appear to warrant further action at this point. As to NovaSkola's conduct, they have previously been warned for topic-related edit-warring (), and they have now again engaged in edit-warring (, , , , all on 1 June 2013). On that basis, I'm imposing a six-month topic ban. The complaints by Ninetoyadome about NovaSkola's editing are not specific enough (notably, they are not supported by relevant diffs) to warrant further action. So closed, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 05:56, 2 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
::A correction: I'm omitting the warning for Proudbolsahye because they were not edit-warring at ] and there's no evidence that has been submitted that would merit a warning. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 06:12, 2 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
{{hab}} |
Revision as of 06:12, 2 June 2013
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For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Tenmei/Ansei
Tenmei/Ansei is banned from all topics that concern the Ryukyu Islands as a whole, including their past or present political status. EdJohnston (talk) 20:01, 30 May 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Tenmei/Ansei
Tenmei (talk · contribs) was indefinitely banned from editing any Senkaku Islands or related page in 2011. In 2012, after a year long site ban was lifted, he retired under "Tenmei" and began editing as "Ansei", a fact he admits here, 7 months after the initial act. The Ryukyu Islands, the topic area in which he has been disrupting lately, are the region of Japan in which the Senkaku Islands are located, and it is this reason that I believe he is in violation of his original indefinite topic ban, as it is stated to be "widely construed". His lack of transparency in his changed username until recently is also highly problematic, even though he had not operated as Ansei during his year long ban. I have also emailed the arbitration committee on this issue, but I was not aware of this page at the time.—Ryulong (琉竜) 15:00, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Notified, 15:02, 23 May 2013 (UTC) Discussion concerning AnseiStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by AnseiMy participation in our project need to be encouraged. This sends a different message. Please notice the measured words and tone of my diffs. My sentences invite collaborative work -- for example,
The closed AfD did not validate a sharpened focus on what is published in reliable sources. It highlighted a chorus of loaded language which is over-reaching in this new thread. In general, for the good of our project, these kinds of destructive tactics and strategies need to be discouraged, mitigated. I understand that ArbCom tries to avoid getting involved in subjects, but it is unavoidable here because of what others have written. Please notice that online US diplomatic archives at the University of Wisconsin allow us to read what the US Minister to Japan has to say about the 1899 US-Japan treaty and about the validity of a Ryukyu Province as a subject for a cite-supported Misplaced Pages article:
In summary, the cite shows that in 1899 Alfred Eliab Buck reported that Japanese newspapers and government officials were pleased with the publishing of the English translation of the Imperial rescript which includes Ryukyu Province. This is not controversial. My diffs were not about the Senkaku Islands, not about "POV pushing", not about "academic dishonesty", not about a "political agenda" or anything else improper. I reject the "wiki-felon" theory which underlies this thread; and ArbCom needs to explicitly reject it as well.I haven't yet worked out how to respond to inflammatory or provocative diffs, but focusing on what reliable sources have to say about any subject is a good start. Consistent with Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution, the result of this thread needs to underscore a constructive approach to prickly issues. What is to be learned from this? --Ansei (talk) 16:47, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
In this specific context, the first paragraph of WP:V needs to be repeated as if it were somehow fresh, novel or unnoticed: In the AfD thread -- just as in Senkaku Islands and in Senkaku Islands dispute and in every other article I have ever tried to improve -- a review will show my work is consistent with the fundamental POV that "the threshold for inclusion is verifiability, not truth". My diffs have no point of view except what is to be found in published sources. This is a good thing -- but it becomes messy when a discussion is complicated by loaded language and straw man arguments like the ones in the AfD and in this AE thread.In the AfD, the process of focusing on "verifiability, not truth" was cut short by Bueller 007's personal attack diffs. The function of his diffs was to delegitimise the cited reliable sources by re-focusing on other things. In this AE thread, Bueller 007 marries a broad personal attack with a defense of my perceived intentions. It is an unexpected pairing. Please give some thought the implications of just one bullet criticism: Is this not what anyone should be doing in an AfD?When a place name is explicitly mentioned in an 1894 United States treaty, the subject is an example of WP:Inherent notability. Also, this AfD discussion adduced support in the National Archives of Japan (NAJ) here. In the AfD thread, Cckerberos explained: "The term 琉球国 does appear in some Meiji period government documents post-dating the establishment of Okinawa Prefecture" and "when a 1894 law uses 琉球国那覇港, it's not referring to the no longer existent independent country, it's referring to a place in what had already become Okinawa prefecture". It is over-reaching to construe this as having to do with the Senkaku Islands dispute Across a span of years, I have done everything I can to jump through ArbCom hoops. This record of cooperation and compliance is a strong counter-balance to easy complaints like the ones posted here. Please notice that excerpts showing my cooperation-building strategy in the AfD are numbered above. Please notice that in both the AfD and in this AE thread, these numbered bullets are not acknowledged. In the AfD thread, only Cckerberos responded to my invitation to work together. It is harmful to our project when shifting the focus to me is substituted for discussion based on WP:V and WP:RS. The AfD discussion was marked by inflammatory and provocative diffs which are continued here. It is harmful to our project when destructive tactics and strategies are validated. There is no cause for the ArbCom actions suggested by Ryulong and Bueller 007. However, I need for this thread to make clear that the purpose of the ArbCom process is (a) not to punish and (b) not to delegitimise the constructive contributions of anyone including me. --Ansei (talk) 16:09, 26 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by (previously uninvolved) 5.12.68.204After reading that AfD, I think that if somehow the topic at hand here is not found covered by the topic ban, this issue should go to WP:AN for a community ban. The claim that a Ryūkyū Province (kuni) existed between 1609-1872 instead of a vassal kingdom is a clear case of persistent and frankly ridiculous POV pushing based on misreadings if not downright misinterpretation of a handful of sources. An example of source misrepresentation I found myself is omitting the "however" part from a source . Except Tenmei/Ansei no editor or source supported his view. Sources to the contrary abound, e.g. there's Ph.D. thesis titled The Government of the Kingdom of Ryukyu, 1609–1872 cited in the article on the Kingdom. What we have here is an editor who was sanctioned in two ArbCom cases who continues the same pattern of behavior, and which is clearly detrimental to our readers. 5.12.68.204 (talk) 21:12, 23 May 2013 (UTC) I think that Bueller 007's points #3 and #4 are evidence of Tenmei/Ansei pushing his own point of view instead of aiming for a NPOV article. Maybe I'm not sufficiently familiar with the term "POV pushing"... Or perhaps Bueller meant to say that Tenmei/Ansei's editing is not motivated by some nationalistic POV? I don't care to speculate what might motivate Tenmei/Ansei, but a highly idiosyncratic POV is equally problematic. One Japanese editor remarked in the AfD that Tenmei/Ansei's position in this matter goes beyond what is espoused even by ultra-nationalists ... 5.12.68.204 (talk) 00:00, 24 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by Bueller 007First, some positive comments. Contrary to what others may say about Ansei/Tenmei, I do not think that he is a POV pusher, insomuch as I don't think he has a particular axe to grind regarding Senkaku, Ryukyu, etc. In addition, though still lacking in concision, his style of communication has improved dramatically since his edit ban. (This is a rather low bar, however, as his writing was previously the most verbose and obfuscatory that I have ever encountered.) Rather, in my occasional experience with Ansei/Tenmei over the last six? years or so, I think his remaining problems are:
He must address these issues before he engages in any "controversial" edits, but ultimately I'm not sure that arbitration enforcement is the way to go about it. Because I don't think that he's an intentional POV pusher (he merely cannot admit when he's wrong), I'm not sure that this is necessarily related to his Senkaku Islands ban. Bueller 007 (talk) 23:37, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Comment by Lothar von RichthofenLast fall, I filed a clarification request as to whether or not the Ryukyus fall under WP:SENKAKU (see here). NYB stated: I believe the intent of the remedies in the Senkaku Islands case is broad enough to allow an administrator to impose discretionary sanctions concerning Ryukyu Islands and Ryukyu Arc. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 22:20, 26 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning AnseiThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Doncram
Doncram reminded to avoid commenting on contributors. Gatoclass (talk) 10:48, 28 May 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Doncram
Due to my past history with Doncram, I am unable to communicate with him about this sort of matter.
Discussion concerning DoncramStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by DoncramOrlady in this diff a short while ago followed me to the wt:NRHP talk page, with sarcasm that I and other NRHP editors are “slavish” and implied stupid. I was pretty much decided not to reply there, as I suspected it was pot-stirring. I suspected that Orlady had followed my edits and found that disagreeable exchange with/about Nyttend and I suspected that Orlady was trying to bait me to respond by butting in at wt:NRHP. Orlady bringing this enforcement action now tends to support my suspicion. --doncram 21:48, 23 May 2013 (UTC) And, Orlady has previously contrived to find excuse to post at my Talk page, which Orlady has just now done with statement of "regret". In the arbitration others offered to take care of any necessary postings at my Talk page, if something was so imperative. I don't see how it helps develop wikipedia for this to continue. --doncram 21:52, 23 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by The Devil's AdvocateI see no evidence of misconduct here whatsoever. Disclosing to an editor who apparently asked for Doncram's comment that he has had past interactions with Nyttend seems more than reasonable and I don't see any misrepresentation of those past interactions. Statements that Nyttend should be more polite and that both parties should disengage also appear reasonable.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:24, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Orlady, Nyttend speedy-deleted content created by Doncram, out-of-process as I recall, and those deletions were overturned at DRV. This much was noted with evidence during the arbitration case where Nyttend was indeed named as a party. How is disclosing all this a "gratuitous personal attack" on Nyttend? Doncram's criticism of Nyttend's tone is also not uncivil. Much of what Doncram said after all that did focus explicitly on the topic under discussion as well. This filing is frivolous.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 00:29, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
@Gato, all Doncram did in this case was comment on Nyttend's conduct towards another editor and disclose facts about their previous interactions, essentially declaring that he was not uninvolved regarding Nyttend. This seems completely acceptable.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 18:09, 25 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by DudemanfellabraI agree with TDA that the comment in question does not require arbitration enforcement. However, the comment Doncram made above may as well be the poster child of not assuming good faith, and it misrepresents Orlady's comment at WT:NRHP. Doncram took a comment about an article and immediately personalized it, apparently feeling like Orlady was calling him stupid for reasons beyond me. Nowhere in Orlady's comment is there anything even remotely directed at any other editors. Orlady has frequently edited at WT:NRHP and more than likely still has the page on her watchlist; that does not mean at all that she followed Doncram there. If Doncram is to be punished for anything, punish him for the comment here, not at EHC's talk.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 22:22, 23 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by NyttendDuring the arbitration case, I asked that the Doncram not be banned or blocked indefinitely, but that he be placed on an indefinite shoestring restriction so that just one uncivil comment would be grounds for blocking. I hoped that Arbcom would spare Doncram from an indefinite block in a way that would demonstrate basically that he'd had his last chance. If Doncram's refusal here (and elsewhere since the case) to comment on content instead of contributors be insufficient grounds for a substantial block, then perhaps we need a second arbitration case to replace the first one's remedies with ones that will unambiguously place him on a one-more-strike-and-you're-blocked restriction. AE admins who defend Doncram should consider how their comments will aid the case's desired purpose of preventing him from commenting on content and not on contributors. Nyttend (talk) 23:20, 23 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by Orladyedited/edited For the record, my personal world and my Misplaced Pages activity do not revolve around Doncram -- and they never have -- and I am most certainly not following him. Regarding my edits today, note that I am a member of the NRHP WikiProject and I've had that project talk page watchlisted since some time in 2006 or 2007. When "National Register of Historic Places listings in Manassas Park, Virginia" showed up as a new talk page heading, I didn't bother to look at it because I assumed that it was a simple question that another regular would have resolved before I made to the page. When this seemingly minor topic got several comments per hour, I looked to see what the hullabaloo was all about. I read the comments, recalled my earlier involvement with creating Category:National Register of Historic Places in Virginia by city, reviewed the pages in question, and added a comment stating my suggestion of a good way to resolve the contention. There was no call for Doncram (mor anyone else) to receive my comments as a personal insult. Additionally, I have Nyttend's talk page watchlisted. Seeing frequent edits to that page by the user who had opened that Manassas Park discussion, I looked to see what they were discussing. I found an active conversation between two users who disagreed (I wasn't entirely sure what they were talking about), but were exchanging views in a civil fashion and seemed to be coming around to some degree of understanding. Interspersed in the middle of the conversation was a post by Doncram (who apparently had been invited there) in which Doncram indicated which position he agreed with, then launched into a series of statements about Nyttend, saying he was "abrupt and arbitrary-seeming and non-explaining, too much so for good practice dealing with a new-to-this-topic-area contributor," that Nyttend's tone "seems unfriendly, frankly, and I don't like that", that Nyttend "seems to be coming down hard, imposing upon this Talk page rather than discussing in the wt:NRHP discussion that EHC opened helpfully", then adding "Disclosure: Nyttend and I have had numerous disagreements, including a recent arbitration in which we were both named parties. And interactions where Nyttend used administrator tools in actions that were eventually overturned upon appeal." That was a gratuitous personal attack. Because I had seen this same pattern from Doncram repeatedly, often targeted at me, in the years before the Arbcom case and because I believe this kind of behavior is something that Doncram's editor probation was supposed to ameliorate, I am asking that Doncram be admonished. --Orlady (talk) 23:50, 23 May 2013 (UTC) @TDA: There was no good reason for Doncram to rehash his personal bill of particulars against Nyttend on that other user's talk page (and there's certainly no good reason for you to rehash it here). If in the future Doncram is asked to mediate a dispute involving a user (such as Nyttend or me) against whom he holds a grudge that he can't keep himself from rehashing, his best response is something like "Sorry, but it's best if I don't get involved." --Orlady (talk) 02:12, 24 May 2013 (UTC) @Quest for Knowledge: Doncram's long-standing patterns of (1) misperceiving (and then complaining about) comments about content as personal attacks on him and (2) introducing responses to talk-page comments by certain users with announcements about everything he perceives to be wrong with the user were major issues/concerns in the Doncram Arbcom case. His comments about Nyttend are an example of the second of these patterns, and his statements here about me are an example of the first pattern. As one of the other parties to the Arbcom case (and someone who was on the receiving end of these behaviors for going on 6 years now), I supported remedies that would not block Doncram from contributing to Misplaced Pages, but would lead to changes in the behaviors that led to the Arbcom case. This hope for behavior modification is why I would like him to be warned/admonished now. --Orlady (talk) 22:17, 26 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by KeithbobI presented evidence in the Doncram ArbCom as an uninvolved and un-named party. My evidence presentation and comments were clearly critical of Doncram's past behavior. However, I find this filing to be premature and don't see a single edit with only a flavor of criticism to be grounds for action, at this time. If Doncram reverts back to even a smaller version of his/her prior style of behavior (and I hope he/she does not) then it will be easy for concerned parties to present here with multiple diffs instead of the rather moderate and singular diff presented at this time. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 02:24, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
Comment by uninvolved A Quest for KnowledgeI don't see how the diff presented by Orlady against Doncram is actionable. I could be wrong, but it doesn't come across to me as a gratuitous swipe at/example of trolling an old opponent. The specific ArbCom remedy referenced in this RfE refers to: "Doncram repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any normal editorial process or any expected standards of behavior and decorum." Only one diff is presented in the RfE so it doesn't appear to be repeated. I'm not even sure if it qualifies as a minor failure, let alone a serious failure. I'm not even sure that this qualifies for a warning. Perhaps a reminder to those involved that Misplaced Pages - despite all its flaws (or perhaps because of them) - is a collaborative, iterative environment that requires all editors to assume good faith and concentrate on content, and not editors. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:01, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
. Statement by MathsciAs someone who helped gather diffs in the Doncram case, I am in agreement with Orlady, Nyttend, Keithbob and Gatoclass. Rehashing issues dismissed by arbitrators during the arbcom case is not the way to go. In particular there were no findings in the final decision concerning either Nyttend or Orlady. As others have suggested, Doncram should probably be reminded not to personalise discussions. Mathsci (talk) 19:26, 27 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning DoncramThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. The people involved here don't like each other, I get it. But the best thing you all should do is disengage from one another. The reported diff is not actionably disruptive, even if it is not particularly constructive, as is this request and several of the statements here. But AE can't do much to help you tolerate each other. Sandstein 04:08, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Though I haven't seen the conversation that preceded the discussion on Emmette's talk page, doncram's post looks to me like a gratuitous swipe at/example of trolling an old opponent, and I really can't see any excuse for this sort of commentary particularly when he was specifically warned by Sandstein to avoid commenting on contributor quite recently. While minor breaches of WP:CIV can be overlooked, I think at least some sort of corrective action is appropriate for chronic offenders, such as week-long blocks. We can probably overlook this particular breach as an isolated example, but doncram should understand that he risks sanctions for ongoing conduct of this nature, in which case I would suggest he receive at least a reminder or warning on this occasion. Gatoclass (talk) 12:10, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
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IranitGreenberg
IranitGreenberg is warned not to edit further on the topics named in this complaint, since she is banned from the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. EdJohnston (talk) 02:50, 31 May 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning IranitGreenberg
The editor is currently "banned from the topic of the Israeli-Arab conflict for three months".
see below
Could someone explain the scope of the topic ban to IranitGreenberg please ? I'm not sure it's clear to them. Looking at their post-ban edits (see Special:Contributions/IranitGreenberg from 2013-05-25T21:18:14), some of them may be topic ban violations. For example
I'm not suggesting any sanction, only clarification. Sean.hoyland - talk 14:25, 27 May 2013 (UTC) The editor is continuing to violate their topic ban () despite the information they have received here. They may not be capable of stopping by themselves. If anyone considers a temporary block to get their attention or an indef ban, perhaps the editor should be asked to explicitly agree to not use sockpuppetry under any circumstances or in any form. A previous topic ban/block of an editor like IranitGreenberg in many ways (i.e. AndresHerutJaim) resulted in the editor becoming a prolific sockpuppeteer which has caused disruption and wasted resources (and this edit is probably by their latest sock). Sean.hoyland - talk 05:44, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning IranitGreenbergStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by IranitGreenbergI thought that Israel conflict with Iran wasn't part of the Arab/Palestinian-Israeli conflict, but if I'm wrong, I'll stop editing there. Regarding Naftali Bennett, I thought I could edit because he's an Israeli politician (not related per se to such conflict), but since I edited something related to Palestine, perhaps I made a mistake (it wasn't on purpose). It won't happen again.--IranitGreenberg (talk) 14:52, 27 May 2013 (UTC) I want to make clear I also edited Israel Defense Forces. But only related to foreign suppliers, not the conflict, Arabs or Palestinians.--IranitGreenberg (talk) 20:24, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning IranitGreenbergThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Soosim
Soosim (editing under any account or IP address) is indefinitely topic-banned (WP:TBAN) from everything related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Sandstein 20:54, 30 May 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Soosim
As per discussion at this COIN section (and especially the subsection), Soosim is now known to have been violating WP:COI in a blatant way in the I/P topic area: he is a paid staff member of NGO Monitor, as per his on-wiki self-identification, and his primary activities on Misplaced Pages involve editing NGO Monitor and adding that organisation's criticism of other parties to the articles on those parties. Examples:
Discussion concerning SoosimStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SoosimI have been following all the comments here, at the coi board, and the sockpuppet board. if I may: a) I have never been involved with anything relating to any sock puppet or meat puppet. I was very happy to see scarletfire join in, but it is the same as for bus stop, ghcoold, plot spoiler, gilabrand, etc and I'm a pretty sure it is not my wife or kids. so, if someone can give me more details, I will try to sort it out. but no, I don't do that, and wouldn't do that. b) all edits were my own. always have been, and always will be. I never discussed or approved any edit with anyone beforehand. all edits were RS and always agreed upon - maybe after fighting with various editors but never vandalism or disruptive. it is clear to me that it is very much pov and not coi. c) nomo has always been abusive to me. I have mentioned that many times to him and to others. I think his intentions are not pure. also, malik, dlv, sean, etc have always been watching me. they have said so. sean has been watching for 3+ years. Nothing was ever snuck in - all done above board, with edit summaries, with discussion when needed, etc. (nomo has already started to look for edits to remove even though the edits are RS and non-controversial: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Medical_Aid_for_Palestinians&oldid=557289438&diff=prev and http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Ir_Amim&oldid=557288742&diff=prev and http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=New_Israel_Fund&curid=2343447&diff=557291079&oldid=550308939 and http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=B%27Tselem&curid=38573522&diff=557290974&oldid=554997435 and more d) I will also say that many editors have jumped to conclusions which are not correct, or even remotely correct. and I think many statements on this page and the coi page have been made which are not based on fact - mostly innuendo, association, over-emotional responses, etc. (one example here is 'edits made during work hours' - I happen to work from home, am a consultant, travel around quite a bit doing my consulting, etc.) e) and as I said earlier - all edits were responsible, within wiki rules, discussed, etc. many edits were removed, reverted edited by others. no problem. I have cooperated with any editor on any talk page who engaged in a discussion. a most recent example was the nomo/rastiniak/goldblum outrage that incorrectly assumed I wanted to label goldblum as a plo supporter, based on an available RS. within minutes of someone saying that, I removed it. just one example of many many many over the years. f) and, if I may, perhaps to make it more clear: the I/P conflict area is not one where you can get away with self-promotion, peacock, advertising, etc. and, not to be too repetitive, but wiki is indeed an online encyclopedia, and that npov prevails. that is what I strive for. showing both sides of any discussion, conflict, etc. (again, just look at the many edits nomo is making now, removing any chance for npov. compare and contrast, please....) thanks. Statement by (username)
Statement by Peter cohenQuoting our article on Soosim's employer it is an organization "whose stated aim is to generate and distribute critical analysis and reports on the output of the international NGO community for the benefit of government policy makers, journalists, philanthropic organizations, and the general public." Soosim's role is described by his employer as one of "Online Communications". His contributions are spread through the week (apart from Saturday daytimes) but a substantial number of edits take place during normal office hours. There is no reason to doubt that much of his editing of Misplaced Pages was done as a paid contributor pushing the propaganda line of his employers.--Peter cohen (talk) 19:44, 28 May 2013 (UTC) I find the following in the link that Nomo has just inserted particularly interesting "Arnie spoke about the battle for objectivity on Misplaced Pages. He spends about an hour a day making sure that facts are checked and verified on the online encyclopedia and that anti-Israel bias is not allowed to stand. He encourages all pro-Israel advocates to join the “wiki war.”" Anyone who is really interested in building an unbiased encyclopaedia should not be inviting pro-anything advocates to join a "war" on the encyclopaedia. His role is quite clearly that of a propagandist and the reference to objectivity is just the usual partisan attitude of campaigners who always believe that the media are biased against them and nothing is objective unless it agrees with them. Note he commented on the blog post and thanked the author for the shout out without any indication that he considered anything said other than an accurate representation of what he said in the reported meeting. --Peter cohen (talk) 15:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by רסטיניאקNGO Monitor is Gerald Steinberg and Steinberg is NGO Monitor. There is no LTD there. Steinberg initiated his monitor and calls himself its "president". No action in NGO Monitor can be performed without his order, involvement or agreement. That includes all the edits of Soosim. Therefore, in addition to discussing Soosim there is a need to deal with a whole range of wikipedia activities of NGO Monitor directed by Gerald Steinberg that should be examined, mostly executed by Soosim during the last years since he began editing on wikipedia. They may have had someone else before Soosim to promote their activities and to defame liberal, human rights and Peace NGOs. I would go further than Peter cohen in characterizing the activities of NGO Monitor based on their own words. The main activities of NGO Monitor are geared to harm those organization by aiming at their contributors and supporters, and pushing for legal actions in Israel to block funding from European countries and the EU to Israeli human rights NGOs. There is more on WP:COIN part 8.רסטיניאק (talk) 22:41, 28 May 2013 (UTC)רסטיניאק
Statement by Zero0000(Disclosure: As someone once lied about in print by Gerald Steinberg, I'm somewhat ill-disposed towards his organization.) Regardless of what Soosim's job description is, for someone to devote themselves so consistently to promoting the viewpoint of a particular rather extreme activist organization is a violation of the core policy WP:NPOV and should not be allowed. Zero 10:56, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
Statement by The Devil's AdvocateI should note that Arbitrator User:Newyorkbrad made a recent addition to BLP covering this sort of conduct. While Soosim's position at NGO Monitor certainly impacts his editing on various people criticized by that group in connection with the Arab-Israeli conflict such as Goldblum, it also seems to extend to areas where the ARBPIA connection is not so explicit as with this edit targeting Sarah Leah Whitson, another target of NGO Monitor. Granted, there is an Israeli connection to the criticism of Whitson, but it is not explicit in the Libya edit. Administrators here should consider invoking WP:BLPSE while they are reviewing this case or construing the topic ban in such a way that there can't be any indirect pro-Israeli POV-pushing.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 17:16, 29 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by Bus stopI hardly consider posts such as this and this to represent proper use of Talk page space. I think the editor making those posts, User:רסטיניאק, should remove them. The sentiments expressed in those posts should be disregarded unless expressed in a proper forum, such as this thread that we are in here. Bus stop (talk) 18:07, 28 May 2013 (UTC) Biased editing is not unheard of concerning the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. I think User:Soosim approximately represents their own perception of events not unlike most editors involved in this area of editing. That they were associated with an organization representing their own vews is hardly surprising. No one is going to associate with an organization representing views diametrically opposed to their own. There is a dearth of evidence of edits made without the support of proper sourcing. I don't think the charges of "POV pushing" and failure to uphold WP:NPOV are as substantial as they sound. There are many eyes on the articles falling under the heading of "Israeli–Palestinian conflict". Judging by the grievances expressed on this page one would get the impression User:Soosim did identifiable damage to the project. If that were the case, would there not be edits that have to be undone? There are many eyes on the articles under discussion. More importantly the "Israeli–Palestinian conflict" is an area of unusually high contention. Sources are the mainstay of the project. I am assuming User:Soosim operated within that which was supported by sources because no one is bringing evidence of improper edits. Do we find damaging edits that now have to be undone? Bus stop (talk) 04:08, 30 May 2013 (UTC) Statement by NebySoosim edited rarely and sporadically until May 2010 when he began to focus on Human Rights Watch and other subjects of NGO Monitor's concerns. In August - September 2010 he was added to the staff page of NGO Monitor's website. This does suggest that he took up a post at NGO Monitor in May 2010 and was added to the staff page after completing a term of probation, and that his editing of articles relating to NGO Monitor's concerns was the product of his position at NGO Monitor and not a mere coincidence of interests. NebY (talk) 11:00, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Result concerning SoosimThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Proudbolsahye/Ninetoyadome/Yerevanci
Ninetoyadome warned, NovaSkola topic-banned for six months. Sandstein 06:12, 2 June 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Proudbolsahye/Ninetoyadome/Yerevanci
This users have been ignoring wikipedia's policies and didn't even want to take participation in talk page and have been section blanking, while removing my relavant and well sourced information in Guba mass grave article, as well as user added very extremist material, which included photo of beheaded man in Ibad Huseynov article.
Discussion concerning Proudbolsahye/Ninetoyadome/YerevanciStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by ProudbolsahyeStatement by NinetoyadomeNovaSkola has a tendency to remove information, even if it is cited, he does not like. In the article about Ibad Huseynov he kept removing my addition where i stated how this individual, who azerbaijani's claim killed Armenian freedom fighter Monte Melkonian, is a lie and posted information from Azerbaijani sources which back up my statement. he removed it stating it is a lie, http://en.wikipedia.org/Ibad_Huseynov. In the Guba Mass grave article i posted information regarding the Armenian side of events, while not removing anything regarding the Azerbaijani side of events, and NovaSkola kept removing it claiming it should not be in the lead. User Yerevanci added it to another section and NovaSkola kept removing it. The user kept adding "sources" which have no mention to Armenia, Azerbaijan or Guba and claims it is evidence. The individual posted Ka Hon Chu, Sandra, and Anne-Marie de Brouwer. "the MEN who KILLED me" as evidence for rape that took place in Guba. The book is about the Rwandan Genocide. The individual posted http://www.icty.org/x/cases/krstic/trans/en/000719it.htm and http://www.icty.org/x/cases/popovic/trans/en/061107ED.htm as evidence to claim Amnesty International stated 3000 people were killed by Armenians, even thought the links are about Yugoslavia and has no single mention of Armenia, Azerbaijan or Guba. The user has no problem with the Azerbaijani side of the Sumgait Pogrom or the Armenian Genocide Denial but when it comes to the other side of events regarding Azerbaijani's he doesnt like it and will remove it. Ninetoyadome (talk) 20:45, 1 June 2013 (UTC) Statement by YerevanciStatement by The Devil's AdvocateNot sure about the rest of the case, but this edit by Ninetoyadome, the last paragraph especially, is just beyond the pale. At the very least a stern warning about POV-pushing is needed for that editor.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 02:54, 2 June 2013 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Proudbolsahye/Ninetoyadome/YerevanciThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. We lack the required diffs of warnings per WP:AC/DS#Warnings and of notifications of this request for each named user. Also, it is not clear which part of the request relates to which of the three named users, and whether the complainant means to allege that they are sock- or meatpuppets of each other. I will close this rather confusing request without action if all required information is not supplied within one hour of the complainant's next edit, or after 12 hours, whichever is earlier. Sandstein 20:57, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
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