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Revision as of 18:28, 30 June 2013 edit76.189.109.155 (talk) →76.189.109.155 and drama ← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:29, 30 June 2013 edit undoToddst1 (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors137,765 edits →76.189.109.155 and drama: That's classic WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior and there is no place for that on Misplaced Pages.Next edit →
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	:::I'd like to apologize to all the admins I offended, especially the ones I really like. Especially Bbb23, who's a great guy. Let me make this simple. I'm upset because of the very disrepectul way OrangeMike was treated with regard to . Please read my comments there. Mike was taken to ANI regarding a block, but ''no one'' ever even had a conversation with him first to try and resolve it. Yes, I was passionate there. Sometimes too passionate. But there were few defending him, until some wonderful admins - Bbb23, DGG and The Bushranger - came along and balanced the scales a bit. Because of my participation there, my reputation took an immediate hit, which I knew was likely to happen because I was the only IP participating. But I felt so terrible for Mike that I didn't care. So I'm not in the best mood because of that situation. And then, to top it off, Toddst1, with whom I had a little skirmish with about six weeks ago, came to my talk page an re-added the shared IP template that hadn't been there in all that time. He claimed I removed it improperly, but I explained to him that WP:BLANKING did ''not'' exclude it from being removed at the time I removed it in May. It wasn't until 16 days later, that Todd himself added (or readded) that exclusion to WP:BLANKING. So I went to his page to discuss it and asked Jayron32 if he would be a neutral mediator. I even said I was fine with having the template ''if'' it's required; my understanding through a long Village Pump discussion a few weeks ago was that the IP template was ''not'' something that would be enforced. In any case, I told Bbb that I'd be fine with having the template but said I'd like to put it lower on the page since there are no rules that say it ''must'' be displayed at the top of the page. Finally, I'd ask that some admins please look at my over the past hour or so and review the flood of edits by ] and ]. I would respectfully ask that an admin educate them on that type of editing. Again, I'm sorry to the admins I annoyed and offended. And no, Bbb, you're not on my "bad list". :) I think most of the admins I've dealt with are great, actually. --] (]) 18:08, 30 June 2013 (UTC)		:::I'd like to apologize to all the admins I offended, especially the ones I really like. Especially Bbb23, who's a great guy. Let me make this simple. I'm upset because of the very disrepectul way OrangeMike was treated with regard to . Please read my comments there. Mike was taken to ANI regarding a block, but ''no one'' ever even had a conversation with him first to try and resolve it. Yes, I was passionate there. Sometimes too passionate. But there were few defending him, until some wonderful admins - Bbb23, DGG and The Bushranger - came along and balanced the scales a bit. Because of my participation there, my reputation took an immediate hit, which I knew was likely to happen because I was the only IP participating. But I felt so terrible for Mike that I didn't care. So I'm not in the best mood because of that situation. And then, to top it off, Toddst1, with whom I had a little skirmish with about six weeks ago, came to my talk page an re-added the shared IP template that hadn't been there in all that time. He claimed I removed it improperly, but I explained to him that WP:BLANKING did ''not'' exclude it from being removed at the time I removed it in May. It wasn't until 16 days later, that Todd himself added (or readded) that exclusion to WP:BLANKING. So I went to his page to discuss it and asked Jayron32 if he would be a neutral mediator. I even said I was fine with having the template ''if'' it's required; my understanding through a long Village Pump discussion a few weeks ago was that the IP template was ''not'' something that would be enforced. In any case, I told Bbb that I'd be fine with having the template but said I'd like to put it lower on the page since there are no rules that say it ''must'' be displayed at the top of the page. Finally, I'd ask that some admins please look at my over the past hour or so and review the flood of edits by ] and ]. I would respectfully ask that an admin educate them on that type of editing. Again, I'm sorry to the admins I annoyed and offended. And no, Bbb, you're not on my "bad list". :) I think most of the admins I've dealt with are great, actually. --] (]) 18:08, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
			:::::The problem is you have a "bad list" as you refer to it. That's classic ] behavior and there is no place for that on Misplaced Pages. Can someone please put forward a proposed sanction for community ratification? ] <small>(])</small> 18:29, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

	:It's not just the admins that you have offended, your reasons for reverting edits which include "...stay the f off of my talk page" are uncivil and have been offensive. If a welcome message is considered vandalism and moving an object to its proper place is disruptive editing, then what is right to do? In addition, it would be polite to notify me on my talk page the next that you mention me here.] (]) 18:19, 30 June 2013 (UTC)		:It's not just the admins that you have offended, your reasons for reverting edits which include "...stay the f off of my talk page" are uncivil and have been offensive. If a welcome message is considered vandalism and moving an object to its proper place is disruptive editing, then what is right to do? In addition, it would be polite to notify me on my talk page the next that you mention me here.] (]) 18:19, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:29, 30 June 2013

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Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive367#Close challenge for Talk:1948 Arab–Israeli War#RFC for Jewish exodus

(Initiated 41 days ago on 13 December 2024) challenge of close at AN was archived nableezy - 05:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

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Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/In the news criteria amendments

(Initiated 108 days ago on 7 October 2024) Tough one, died down, will expire tomorrow. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 459#RFC_Jerusalem_Post

(Initiated 87 days ago on 28 October 2024) Participation/discussion has mostly stopped & is unlikely to pick back up again. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Note: This is a contentious topic and subject to general sanctions. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. 22:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

would like to see what close is. seems like it was option 1 in general, possibly 1/2 for IP area. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 05:38, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Genocide#RfC: History section, adding native American and Australian genocides as examples

(Initiated 78 days ago on 6 November 2024) RfC expired on 6 December 2024 . No new comments in over a week. Bogazicili (talk) 15:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Australia#RFC: Should the article state that Indigenous Australians were victims of genocide?

(Initiated 77 days ago on 8 November 2024), RFC expired weeks ago. GoodDay (talk) 21:33, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Catholic Church#RfC: Establishing an independent Catholicism article

(Initiated 28 days ago on 26 December 2024) Requesting closure from uninvolved impartial third party to close a discussion that has not seen a novel argument for a bit. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:21, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Taylor_Lorenz#RfC_on_Taylor_Lorenz's_comments_on_Brian_Thompson's_murder

(Initiated 33 days ago on 21 December 2024) Bluethricecreamman (talk) 23:36, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

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Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 18#Category:Belarusian saints

(Initiated 35 days ago on 20 December 2024) House Blaster (talk • he/they) 23:10, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Done voorts (talk/contributions) 23:28, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 6#Category:Misplaced Pages oversighters

(Initiated 35 days ago on 20 December 2024) House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:38, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

@HouseBlaster:

Relisted. ToThAc (talk) 22:54, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 10#WP:DISNEY categories

(Initiated 20 days ago on 3 January 2025) House Blaster (talk • he/they) 22:47, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 6#Redundant WPANIMATION categories

(Initiated 17 days ago on 6 January 2025) House Blaster (talk • he/they) 05:35, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 9#Category:Molossia Wikipedians

(Initiated 14 days ago on 9 January 2025) House Blaster (talk • he/they) 22:47, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 13#Redundant WP:COMICS categories

(Initiated 10 days ago on 13 January 2025) House Blaster (talk • he/they) 08:14, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Closed by editor Timrollpickering. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. 14:01, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 15#Redundant WP:RUSSIA categories

(Initiated 9 days ago on 15 January 2025) House Blaster (talk • he/they) 04:24, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

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Other types of closing requests

Talk:Free and open-source software#Proposed merge of Open-source software and Free software into Free and open-source software

(Initiated 251 days ago on 17 May 2024) Would an uninvolved experienced editor please assess the consensus at Talk:Free and open-source software § Proposed merge of Open-source software and Free software into Free and open-source software? Thank you. — Newslinger talk 01:53, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Arab migrations to the Levant#Merger Proposal

(Initiated 121 days ago on 25 September 2024) Open for a while, requesting uninvolved closure. Andre🚐 22:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Winter fuel payment abolition backlash#Merge proposal

(Initiated 87 days ago on 29 October 2024) There are voices on both sides (ie it is not uncontroversial) so a non-involved editor is needed to evaluate consensus and close this. Thanks. PamD 09:55, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Dundas railway station, Sydney#Requested move 25 December 2024

(Initiated 29 days ago on 25 December 2024) – The discussion has reached a point where there is some agreement in favour or acceptance of moving most of the articles concerned to 'light rail station', with the arguable exception of Camellia railway station which may be discussed separately in a pursuant discussion.

There are, however, points of disagreement but the discussion has been inactive for twenty days now.

I wish to close the discussion so as to migrate and subsequently fix up the articles to reflect the recent reopening of a formerly-disused railway line.

Cheers, Will Thorpe (talk) 05:48, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:You Like It Darker#Proposed merge of Finn (short story) into You Like It Darker

(Initiated 27 days ago on 27 December 2024) Proposed merge discussion originally opened on 30 May 2024, closed on 27 October 2024, and reopened on 27 December 2024 following the closure being overturned at AN. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:22, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Selected Ambient Works Volume II#Proposed merge of Stone in Focus into Selected Ambient Works Volume II

(Initiated 17 days ago on 6 January 2025) Seeking uninvolved closure; proposal is blocking GA closure czar 11:47, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Donald Trump#Proposal to supersede consensus #50

(Initiated 13 days ago on 10 January 2025) Seeking uninvolved closure; its degenerated into silly sniping and has clearly run its course. Slatersteven (talk) 16:46, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Yup, the discussion does need to be closed. GoodDay (talk) 18:30, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Xiaohongshu#Requested move 14 January 2025

(Initiated 9 days ago on 14 January 2025) Seeking uninvolved closure; its been more than 7 days and there appears to be a consensus. There haven't been new opinions for almost three days now. Queen Douglas DC-3 (talk) 22:08, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Closed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. 09:12, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Place new discussions concerning other types of closing requests above this line using a level 3 heading

Backlog at Misplaced Pages:Requested moves

There is a backlog at WP:RM that takes up nearly half the page and extends more than a month back. It's clear from the talk page that there are a few non-admins who are trying to help close and perform non-controversial moves that lead to redlinks, but administrative powers are needed to address the growing number of moves leading to bluelinks (moves over a redirect) that non-admins can't perform. Any help would be much appreciated. -Thibbs (talk) 22:37, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

{{db-move}} can be used by non-admins. But I'm not sure why anyone would want to close those things, admin or not. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 01:57, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, Nathan. -Thibbs (talk) 17:24, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I just non-admin closed a handful I found to be pretty obvious Calidum Sistere 04:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

And thanks for your help too, Calidum. -Thibbs (talk) 17:24, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Just any FYI there are 75 move discussions that are baa logged currently. Calidum Sistere 12:16, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Aaaand... it's gone. -- tariqabjotu 17:55, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Discussions in need of closure

Thanks. Werieth (talk) 12:38, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Bump Werieth (talk) 12:55, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Bump Werieth (talk) 12:23, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Bump Werieth (talk) 10:29, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Is it this easy...

...to avoid accountability for your actions. I would be interested to hear opinions/comments on the following "hypothetical" example:

a user has had more than one report filed at ANI, by different users, within two weeks
the user was duly notified on his/her talk page for each report
during the time each report was active, the user was editing daily on Misplaced Pages
the user made no comment on any of the ANI reports
the first report has already been archived
the second report has concerns expressed by several users, but no response from the individual in question, after more than five days
failure to engage in a discussion at ANI is, in this example, an extension of some of the other disruptive behaviors which generated the reports in the first place

Is it really that simple? Can someone engage in behavior which is of concern to other editors on Misplaced Pages, and then repeatedly choose to ignore ANI discussions without consequence? Disclosure: within the context of the hypothetical, I have neither reported the user to ANI nor am I the user being reported. Taroaldo ✉ 01:27, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

This really isn't the right place for a question like this, But I'm at a loss as to where the right place would be, maybe the village pump?. However, I'll nibble. The answer would be no. Persistent non-response to an editor's complaint is not acceptable. Ok, if in the first instance of being reported to ANI, they don't show up but cease the behaviour that they were reported for then there is no issue. If the editor behaviour is raised at ANI again but by numerous editors then there is a case for a preventative block, pending admin investigation. This has happened before and will no doubt happen more in the future. Blackmane (talk) 09:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I couldn't figure out a better place to ask this question than here. It isn't really a hypothetical, but if I start citing specifics then there will be a third discussion open, which wouldn't be productive. My main concern is that there doesn't seem to be a practical process in place to deal with this type of situation. Neither of the two reports I cited received any administrator comment — perhaps everyone was waiting for a response from the user. If a user is uncivil/disruptive in their interactions with other editors sufficient to get an ANI report every few weeks but is not so blatant as to attract immediate administrator intervention (i.e. outside of ANI), then that user can seemingly ignore the ANI discussions without consequence (so far as I have observed). Failure to manage this effectively will only serve to frustrate productive editors who may end up leaving the project as many have done before them. Taroaldo ✉ 10:02, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

If there is, in fact, an actual issue with their editing, and there is consensus that there needs to be a block, topic-ban, etc. in response to it, then their lack of comment in the AN/I discussion has no bearing on things. They, presumably, read the notice, and chose not to comment in their defense (or otherwise...), then whatever remedy needs to be applied is applied regardless. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:09, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Taroaldo - It's impossible to comment without knowing the context of what drove you to this question. All we have is your perception. I thought I knew what you were talking about until you said there had been no admin comments and now I'm at a loss. I'll only say this: some ANI reports are frivilous and others arn't structured in a way that makes sense and a third group are disputes that admin's won't touch with a remote controlled robot and a 20 ft pole.--v/r - T P 01:19, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The question is meant to be general but it was prompted by a real situation which still has one active report. I didn't feel it would be appropriate to provide diffs for illustrative purposes at AN while a report is still open at ANI. I have provided links on your talk page so you can see the full context. Thanks. Taroaldo ✉ 03:50, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The problem, Taroaldo, is that we can't make any definitive statements when you speak in pointed vagueries. Your initial post amounts to "Can we all agree that evil is bad?" If everyone agrees, so what? Unless we know exactly what situation you are talking about, we can't make any statements about whether or not the situation is or is not being dealt with properly. We have no way to even know if your characterization of the situation is accurate unless we can view the entirety of the situation with our own eyes and arrive at our own conclusions. --Jayron32 04:14, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

If the question cannot be answered without the example on which it was based, then here is the example: Report 1 was archived without result and Report 2 was de-archived on June 27. Thanks. Taroaldo ✉ 04:58, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I'll take a look when I get a few minutes and see what I can figure out. --Jayron32 19:24, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Note the second report has been archived again: Report 2. Taroaldo ✉ 04:01, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Advice please.

I left an enquiry here with an administrator. As can be seen, the administrator concerned, User:Georgewilliamherbert, undertook to review the issue on May 23rd. But since then I have heard nothing from him, although (as can be seen) I have made a couple of enquiries on his talk page. Can someone advise me please on procedure in this situation? I still wish my enquiry to be addressed, as the editor who is its subject is still (in my opinion) stirring up related problems elsewhere. Should I, for example, place the situation on AN/I?Thanks, --Smerus (talk) 08:14, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, once you brought it here, you'll need to advise both Andy and George ... because posting it here is the equivalent to ANI (✉→BWilkins ←✎) 11:48, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, apologies for not appreciating the etiquette, I have never listed anything here myself before. I will therefore shortly list the whole shebang properly on ANI and advise both formally.--Smerus (talk) 15:16, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Done.--Smerus (talk) 17:03, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

New proposal for admins

Boldly closing. I will be the first to admit we have some problems, and I'm often the first to get involved and try to find a solution. This isn't the solution, as PS himself has concluded. This was precipitated by a block that arguably had too low a threshold, but that isn't the same as abuse. We need to work on these problems but this isn't the way we will find a solution. I'm closing not to stop discussion, but to stop drama, as there is zero chance this proposal will pass, and it is in the wrong venue to start with. Lets go edit articles, reflect on this, and approach the problem with a fresh perspective tomorrow. Please. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | © | WER 12:45, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Many recent incidents, not just the two concerning me vis a vis Jmh649 and Bwilkins (they have been notified), have me quite concerned about standards of admin behavior. Those two admin both blocked me within the last two weeks and the blocks were unanimously overturned. Why do they feel it's okay to make such blocks?--because they know nothing will happen to them. The stigma of blocks cannot be erased. See Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Bwilkins_block_of_PumpkinSky. How Bwilkins can think he was doing me a favor when he edit warred, protected the same page, and then blocked me is mind boggling. Look at comments by others in the thread. Essentially they say he violated every possible rule in this situation. And what are the repurcussions to me? NOTHING. Such incidents are getting more and more common. I'll let the other victims speak for themselves.

And don't tell me you know how us non admins feel unless you have been on the receiving end of such actions. And don't tell me admins are just users with some bits--we all now that's hogwash and there are special rules for admins. And people wonder why participation in wiki has been nosediving for 6 years.

So, to raise the standards of behavior of admins and make them think before they act, I have a new proposal:

"Any admin who blocks someone and said block is overturned as being unwarranted shall be blocked themselves for the same amount of time."

It's high time admins got a taste of their own medicine around here and acted like admins should be acting. PumpkinSky talk 11:44, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I would oppose that because it would be trivial for me to game that on IRC to get any admin blocked, and I'm sure it would be just as easy for anyone else to game. This is the wrong solution. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | © | WER 11:51, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Oppose That looks to me like the very definition of a punitive block. Aside from giving the admin "a taste of their own medicine", what possible benefit is derived for Misplaced Pages from this proposal? Not to mention the obvious fact that this would be hugely open to abuse. I realise that you're pissed off, PumpkinSky, but this strikes me as an ill-thought-out, knee-jerk reaction to your recent block; it's contrary to the blocking policy and contrary to basic common sense. Yunshui 雲‍水 11:55, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Well, I know that I always think before I act. My post on ANI this morning, significantly after the well was poisoned by overnight discussion, shows that my thought processes were extremely clear and correct - and although some apologies for the thoroughly non-AGF responses by my fellow-editors should be forthcoming, they never will - and that's fine with me. There's no consensus that the block was unwarranted, and penalizing anyone for doing what they believe is protecting the project will lead to a) fewer admins, b) fewer admins willing to make difficult blocks (which this one was not, by the way), and therefore c) more damage to the project in the long run. Making ridiculous proposals when a) you're already pissed about ArbComm and b) your pride is hurt really does not help the project - this "proposal" was poorly thought out and was more reactionary than anything (✉→BWilkins ←✎) 12:00, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

You introduced the term "poisoned" into this discussion. I don't support the proposal because I think we need fewer blocks, not more, but your reaction seems to invite something like this. Like many others, I don't share your belief that your block protected the project, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:20, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

So of course an admin who removes his own bad block before he can be hauled off to ANI or ArbCom, while recording a false unblock notice that remains on the editor's record, would be exempt because his block wasn't technically overturned .... bzzzzzzzt. A good strategy, and one that can be gamed with your suggestion. It's the internet; get over it already (and I disagree with the way you have framed the Bwilkins' block anyway). You got an unblock message in your log from someone uninvolved; quit whining already, especially when you sit by silently when what you perceive as a bad block happens to others. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:04, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

By the way, this is not the place to make a proposal of this nature. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:09, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the problem of WP:INVOLVED admins is being too quickly brushed aside on these boards, but the solution proposed by Pumpkin (tit-for-tat bad blocks) is silly. Arbcom once proposed a so-called administrative supervision (of admins), but I see no evidence it was ever used. There seems to be no practical, intermediate solution between doing nothing and desysopping by Arbcom. Someone not using his real name (talk) 12:14, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict) x 2 This is the third time that this has happened to PumpkinSky. Editors will remember the notorious block of PumpkinSky by Moni3, two hours after she called him an "idiot" and a "dingus" (similar to conduct for which Hawkeye7 was desysopped). While I'm not certain that blocking in response is the answer, I think there is becoming an issue here.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:16, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
PumpkinSky is upset, I get that and I understand it. If I am to be fair, I have to say that what I saw was a block that was done in good faith, but with too low a threshold. Bad cases make for bad law, etc. etc. I recommend closing this at the earliest reasonable time. What we need is admin to address their fellow admin who "mess up" and this has been happening. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | © | WER 12:18, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

It's happening too much. You know what we went through yesterday to retain an editor, who while he may have been justly blocked, blew up as the result of gross admin baiting.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:23, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

And I've injected myself in every one of these situations and others you may not be aware of, and in ways that aren't always published online. They aren't being ignored. That doesn't mean we can paint every situation with the same brush. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | © | WER 12:36, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Bwilkins' response shows he has zero understanding of the error of his ways. This proves that there are serious issues with today's admins corps. This may not be the best idea, but something needs to be done. PumpkinSky talk 12:20, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Facepalm, and strong oppose One of the most POINTy proposals in the history of Misplaced Pages, and an absolutely crazy one at that. Besides, given the way it is worded, this scenario could easily arise: Admin X blocks a sockmaster indefinitely. Said sockmaster stops socking, accepts the standard offer 6 months later, and is unblocked. Admin X, who was acting completely within policy, is now blocked indefinitely by Admin Y. Admin Z realizes this is stupid, and unblocks Admin X, and then has to block Admin Y in the process. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 12:28, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
What a complete waste of time this discussion is. Admins, Checkusers (and Arbs too for that matter) have been ignoring all rules and hindering ordinary writing editors for as long as Misplaced Pages has been invented. Nothing is going to change because most of those who put themselves up for these lofty positions are little more than tin gods with a frustrated lust for power in real life, Misplaced Pages provides them with the powers and platforms which real life so very wisely denies them. Only Arbs and Admins can change this situation, and they are not going to admit their all too apparent inadequacies by changing anything. Accept that, and Misplaced Pages becomes a lot easier. Giano 12:29, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
- Almost totally agree Giano, but felt compelled to bring this up, maybe just one admin will change for the better, yes that's a naive thought but eh. PumpkinSky talk 12:31, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
  - If you think anything that happens on Misplaced Pages is going to change the behavior of any "lusting for power in real life" admin, playing out their miserable frustrations by pounding on a keyboard, and then polishing their new brass buckles for their buddies after a high profile block, then you have failed to understand Giano's message. By the way, have you read WP:FLEAS lately? Or perhaps your own posts about "Karma" coming back 'round at 'ya? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:41, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - Should Admin be blocked if they continually make bad blocks? Sure. But the wording of this proposal is ludicrous. Why would they be penalized the exact amount they were blocking someone else for? That could potentially be very disproportionate to the bad block they have done. I'm sorry if you were wrongfully blocked (I'm unfamiliar with the specifics of your situation), but you need to cool off and think this out a little further. Sergecross73 msg me 12:38, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

(Forgive me I already had this typed out before it was closed, and I think it is relevant) Pumpkin Sky, a few months back, an IP was in dispute with BWilkins regarding his treatment of IPs and was dragging BWilkins to the dramaboards 2-3 times a day for a few days. I suggested to that IP that if they were to open and RFC/U on BWilkins that I would contribute my unpleasant experience with BWilkins. This would show a pattern, and I believe a few other instances would be brought up by other users, too. This thread will not result in anything, so as I suggested to the IP back then, please start an RFC/U if this issue continues to bother you enough, and I will throw in my 2 cents there. Rgrds. --64.85.217.10 (talk) 12:51, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Infobox World Heritage Site TfD tag

An admin is needed, please, to add a TfD tag to the protected {{Infobox World Heritage Site}}; please see details at Template talk:Infobox World Heritage Site#TfD. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:23, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Done --Salix (talk): 13:09, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:46, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

RfC on editing other user's article talk page comments with Flow

Misplaced Pages:Flow is a planned improvement to the way MediaWiki software handles article talk pages. There is an RfC about how to configure Flow regarding editing other people's article talk page comments. The RfC is at Misplaced Pages talk:Flow#Request for Comment on editing other user's comments with Flow. --Guy Macon (talk) 13:36, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Backlog at RFPP

There's a sizeable backlog at WP:RFPP. I'm going to start wading through the requests now, however if a couple other admins would like to pop by as well that would be über-helpful. --Jezebel'sPonyo 16:07, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Deleting talk at talk pages, I need protection against WP:Harass

Closed per WP:BOOMERANG. Lesson learnt.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:54, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi, I want to ask if the deletion of my talk at this talkpage is allowed? Because I was pointing out to something that seems to happen a lot, I noticed WP:Canvas.

Some months ago I had a discussion with Alexikoua on the and there after some day Athenean became involved and supported him, ultimately I was blocked by an admin because they accused me of non neutral(!) editing.

Yesterday I was randomly reading the talkpage of Talk:Janina Vilayet when I noticed that there had been a discussion in 2011 and exactly the same users were supporting each other against another user. I do not know if this happened on other talkpages, probably it did. But these two users are not unrelated to each other, it seems they work together to influence discussions. So when I noticed this at that talkpage I wrote this as response and immediately (because they control my edits)Athenean deleted my content, while Alexikoua threatened me with block

I also need help because Alexikoua is constantly WP:HARASS me, he is watching my edits and complaining to other users without notifying me. , . They threaten me on my talkpage with blocking, I tried to talk with them but they seem to have a very personal dislike since several months. The reason is because I think I created one article (based on reliable sources but which I never could finish due to their opposition) Gemlik-Yalova Peninsula massacres A Greek army massacre of Turks, but on the other hand Alexikoua himself is an active creator/contributor to (Turks massacring Greeks articles). . Athenean accuses me that I have an axe to grind with Greek people because I created that massacre. .

Thank you. DragonTiger23 (talk) 09:56, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Wait. You drop in on a two-years-old talkpage discussion you never had anything to do with, add a negative comment about two other contributors to it for no other reason than that they have been in a conflict with you on an entirely different article, and then you complain that they are harassing you? This calls for a boomerang. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:09, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Exactly, there isn't any trace of wp:harass. The only case in which we can consider something as such is this one ] (sarcastic comments targetting specific users) and no wonder such a unacceptable comment was quickly removed per wp:talk. Alexikoua (talk) 10:25, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The short answer is yes, it was appropriate to remove your comment. Talk pages are only for discussing how to improve the associated article. Your comment did not discuss the article atall and was properly removed. You were not threatened with a block, you were told if you continue you may be blocked for disruptive editing. GB fan 10:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

If Wp:canvass and WP:Harass is allowed I rest my case. DragonTiger23 (talk) 10:42, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Canvassing and harassment are not allowed. You going to a conversation you were not involved in and making a comment such as the one you made is harassment and you should stop. As far as canvassing, I do not see where anyone has recruited other editors that are not involved in a conversation to join a conversation. GB fan 11:21, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

So, let's address your questions 1 by 1:

Was the deletion of your talkpage comment allowed? YES - it was unrelated to improving the article at hand, and was also inappropriate in tone and substance
Are you being harassed? No - it does not appear that anyone is specifically following your edits and trying to force you off the project

Here's a couple of extra ideas for you:

Do not accuse others of nationalistic editing without clear proof - you claim they dislike you because of an article you were involved in ... holding old grudges would be childish and unproductive
Before accusing of WP:CANVASS and WP:HARASS, you should actually read them in their entirety in order to actually understand them, not just bits and pieces of them

(✉→BWilkins ←✎) 11:33, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

After only 1 day, both Athenean and Alexikoua find out my edit on that talkpage, if they were not controlling all my edits all the time, how could they both ever find out my writing on a forgotten talkpage so quickly ? I gave the links to their accusations, I suspected them of canvass, I should not write that on the talkpage but I did that to point out to admins so they could see their joint actions to influence discussions, but as I see nobody is interested in this. Alexikoua is busy trying to block me by influencing other users I gave the links. DragonTiger23 (talk) 11:44, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

How did they find that edit so quickly the probably have that page watchlisted so it showed up on their list when you edited it. GB fan 11:51, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

But I know I am guilty, and I am sorry to have pointed out their wp:canvass. So please block me very quickly for indefinite. DragonTiger23 (talk) 11:49, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

You haven't done anything you need to be blocked for at this point. GB fan 11:52, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing) FA topic ban clarification sought

CLARIFIED, MOVE ALONG It appears the matter has in fact been clarified, Andy is not banned from any talk pages by the scope of that topic ban. Beeblebrox (talk) 15:37, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Andy is presently under a topic ban which states:

User:Pigsonthewing is banned by the community from the FA of the day and any articles nominated or scheduled as FA of the day.

A discussion has arisen at WP:ANI regarding possible breaches of the topic ban, where Andy has edited the Talk page of a Featured Article and where he has discussed a scheduled Featured Article on a WikiProject's associated Misplaced Pages Talk page. I believe in the best interests of all concerned, it would be useful to clarify what namespace(s) the topic ban should apply to and whether there should be any exceptions etc. I have no personal opinion on what namespace(s) the topic ban should explicitly state, and am raising this here as a procedural issue only. Thanks all, Nick (talk) 12:01, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

This is now at last the sixth thread on this matter. The previous attempts to extend the clearly expressed coverage from articles to other pages have all been rebuffed, not least by the original closing admin. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:36, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Having been an arb, I can say that rulings that include talk pages explicitly state such. Since that ruling doesn't so state, Andy is free to participate in TFA related talk pages. Now people should stop beating the dead horse and drop the stick. PumpkinSky talk 13:31, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

As you 'can say', you can, then, supply us with instances where this ruling is explicitly evidenced? Thanks, --Smerus (talk) 14:37, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Please do not wikilawyer. Unless his topic ban specifically prevents discussions on article talkpages, then he is specifically allowed. This is SOP so that editors are not fully removed from areas of interest unless it becomes a necessity. PS: can someone remove the template from the section header so that it can archive successfully (✉→BWilkins ←✎) 14:54, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

PS Done -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:08, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Drop the stick. This is SOP, here...if talk pages are included they are specifically mentioned in the motion.PumpkinSky talk 15:10, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:88.231.61.88

Removing information in articles and insulting in Turkish in comment line.--Chauahuasachca (talk) 18:43, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Eyes please

this was brought to my attention. I had a very quick look at the contribs. I'm thinking there's a WP:CIR issue in the English language sense. I'm not really up for any drama, but I think it's something that should be looked at. I'll drop them a link to this thread now. — Ched : ? 21:32, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I just saw another case a couple of days ago of a clueless editor accidentally creating pages in the category namespace using HotCat. Has some editing function changed recently that makes that an easy mistake? Looie496 (talk) 21:46, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Now that you mention it I've seen the same thing. I've deleted that category and informed the user they apparently were attempting to communicate with. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:58, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

In answer to Looie's query, I have a suspicion that HotCat may have been enabled by default for new accounts since several months ago; this has the effect that when a new editor goes to another editor's talk page in order to communicate with them, they see a "+" symbol at the bottom of the page, in exactly the position where some other websites have a "+" symbol to click on for "add new post", and thus click it in order to add their message. (Although I'm not entirely sure that explains everything going on in this particular case.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:04, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Demiurge is correct. For the past few months a lot of new editors have mistakenly added categories thinking they were using an editing interface. Acroterion (talk) 22:08, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to know when and where it was decided to turn on HotCat by default. That doesn't seem like a real good idea, the category system here is not something a total noob should be diving right into. The fact that several of us have seen this same problem already would tend to support that idea. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:10, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Found it. On the one hand I am relieved that at least there was a discussion but it apparently did not occur to anyone that this was kind of a big decision and should have been listed at WP:CENT at the very least, not just decided by about ten users. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:22, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Many more than ten users have found it problematic. I brought it up at VPT a while back, and feedback was almost entirely against the measure as implemented. Acroterion (talk) 22:26, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Then I think it is time for a proper RFC on the matter. The figure of ten is about how many people seem to have particpated in that discussion, but in fact only four users voiced support for turning it on for all registered users on a permanent basis. This never should have been closed the way it was and it certainly never should have been implemented. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:29, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, if we can get it turned off for new users it would cut down on this mistaken category creating. --Rs chen 7754 22:38, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Discussion is open. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:40, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I've noticed a few blocked editors putting their unblock requests inside category statements too. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:24, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Infobox Swiss town TfD tag

Resolved – done -- Diannaa (talk) 15:28, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

An admin is needed, to add a TfD tag to the protected {{Infobox Swiss town}}. The markup needed is:

{{Template for discussion/dated|page=Infobox Swiss town|link=Misplaced Pages:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 June 29#Template:Infobox Swiss town|help=off}}

ASAP, please. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:05, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

76.189.109.155 and drama

76.189.109.155 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

76 has been editing using this IP address since May 1, 2013. He has made many, many edits. Although I haven't looked at all of them, I would say his article edits are probably generally constructive. Outside of article edits, his behavior ranges from charming to obnoxious. Obviously, the reason I'm here is to find a way to eliminate - or at least drastically reduce - the obnoxious. Frankly, I think the only way to do it is through blocks, although I'm open to a creative topic ban that achieves the objective without blocks.

As is clear from his edits, 76 has edited here before May 1. Somewhere he acknowledged that - can't remember where, but I don't think he's hiding it anyway. I believe he claims he's only edited as an IP and has never had a registered account. I have no way of verifying that.

I believe I first became aware of his existence because of an incident in May that this ANI topic and this ANI topic partly reflect and that 76 turned into a major drama. Indeed, one of the reasons I am starting this topic is because of a new but related drama regarding 76's own talk page.

The crux of the problem are these dramas. User:Dennis Brown expressed it reasonably well with this comment: "Mr IP, I'm a bit worried as to why you are here. Everywhere I look and see you, it is usually nothing but wikilawyering. I'm not saying you are wrong on every single point, but your main contribution to Misplaced Pages seems to be drama." 76 does not take kindly to criticism and responded in part: "I suggest you keep your passive-aggressive (and inaccurate) insults to yourself."

The response to Dennis is a significant part of the problem. 76 likes discussing things with admins directly and on admin noticeboards. He kind of has two lists, those admins he likes (they agree with him or are at least nice to him) and those he doesn't. Admins swap back and forth on the lists depending on the most recent interaction between 76 and the admin. Currently, at least User:Bwilkins~~, User:Orangemike~~ and Dennis are on the bad list. I've gone back and forth a number of times. I'm not sure where I am right now but if I'm not already on the bad list, I will be after I post this.

As for Bwilkins and Mike, 76 is currently pounding them to death on their talk pages. He's kind of like an aggressive, self-righteous lawyer cross-examining a witness to get them to admit something. Unfortunately, there's no Misplaced Pages judge to limit the examination.

The latest drama is the template {{dynamicip}}. User:Toddst1 added (re-added?) the template to 76's talk page. The IP removed it, and then there was a bit of a battle including my involvement. You can see discussions about it on my talk page and User:Jayron32's talk page. 76 questioned Todd about it, but Todd declined to discuss it and removed 76's comments. The last "compromise" suggestion by 76 was he would "permit" the template to remain on his talk page but not at the top of the page where these templates go because, says 76, policy doesn't require that it be on the top. I objected to that, but he went ahead and did it anyway. Last I looked, it was buried somewhere in the middle of the page, although he's been edit warring with various editors to keep it where he wants it.

These dramas are a continuing drain on resources. At some point they outweigh the positive contributions 76 makes, but even if 76 is not a net liability to the project, he needs to be reined in. Although I've included some links, I'm not going to hunt down all the dramas and all the examples of 76's shifting opinions about admins and editors. Whether I am or not, I have decided I am involved. Therefore, I can't take any administrative action against him, even for the latest edit warring on his talk page and his self-serving interpretation of policy.

I will notify 76 and some of the involved admins after I post this.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:32, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree that these dramas from this problematic IP are a continued drain on our resources. I see more antipathy towards admins than anything else from this editor. I followed the invective on user talk: Bwilkins from this editor and recognized this editor from a similar fiasco in May. Since I haven't used any administrative privileges, I felt free to walk away from the conversation given the long history of drama-mongering from this IP. I think this editor should have been blocked long ago for persistent WP:Battle and WP:Wikilawyering during this editor's short tenure here at his/her current sticky dynamic IP address. Toddst1 (talk) 17:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

If 76.189.109.155 experiences such aversion to {{dynamicip}}, then I can propose to make another design of the dynamic IP notice, specially for him – if he likes it. But can I ask the community to ban 76.189.109.155 from user_talk:s of all users who experience an aversion to 76.189.109.155, of all who states that does not like him? I think it would be a reasonable compromise. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 17:45, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

"Compromise" necessarily indicates that all parties are getting something but not everything they want. This is not a compromise. Making special templates and requiring a great number of admin to avoid an IP editor that isn't interested in building articles is not a compromise, it is a burdensome capitulation to an editor that is offering nothing of value to the encyclopedia. I'm not sure I've run across them before except to post that one notice regarding their behavior, an administrative task. Should I be required to avoid problematic IPs? Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 18:03, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Not that it's important for the decisions we have to make here, but you have interacted with 76 before now. For example, here (in a pleasant way) and here in a not-so-pleasant way with 76 taking potshots at User:Kudpung.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:20, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

I'll say nothing (the history on my talkpage - yes, I removed a couple of posts) and the bizarre discussion on Orangemike's talkpage pretty much say it all. However, I'll correct one thing: I actually the IP likes OrangeMike ... after all, the IP claims I threw OM under the bus yesterday, and won't drop the sharp, pointy thing even when proven otherwise. Do with him what you will, but at least do something ... this is an effing ridiculous waste of resources and goodwill (✉→BWilkins ←✎) 17:49, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

"at least do something... this is an effing ridiculous waste of resources and goodwill" +1 Toddst1 (talk) 17:53, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

In view of the continued edit warring. WP:3RR has certainly been exceeded. I B Wright (talk) 17:47, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

My quoted statement already presents my perspective. I'm not sure what the solution is here, but it has been disruptive. Users whose primary purpose is to be a social gadfly are not really here to build an encyclopedia, they are here for....something else, which I have no idea. I think poking the admin from time to time is probably a very beneficial thing, we are and should be fully accountable, but being a self-righteous and self-appointed full-time wikilawyer (particularly when your understanding of policy is dubious, at best) goes way beyond the role of "loyal opposition" and enters the realm of trolling. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 17:50, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

It has to be said that due to recent problems with IP editors, I have modified my view as to whether such editors should be permitted to edit in Misplaced Pages. But the people who have the power to decide these things have decided that they are acceptable and I have to respect that. However, it has to be said that this is the first time that I have come across an IP editor who is going out of his way to elicit an editing block. Maybe, it's some sort of rite of passage. I B Wright (talk) 18:03, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to apologize to all the admins I offended, especially the ones I really like. Especially Bbb23, who's a great guy. Let me make this simple. I'm upset because of the very disrepectul way OrangeMike was treated with regard to this ANI discussion. Please read my comments there. Mike was taken to ANI regarding a block, but no one ever even had a conversation with him first to try and resolve it. Yes, I was passionate there. Sometimes too passionate. But there were few defending him, until some wonderful admins - Bbb23, DGG and The Bushranger - came along and balanced the scales a bit. Because of my participation there, my reputation took an immediate hit, which I knew was likely to happen because I was the only IP participating. But I felt so terrible for Mike that I didn't care. So I'm not in the best mood because of that situation. And then, to top it off, Toddst1, with whom I had a little skirmish with about six weeks ago, came to my talk page an re-added the shared IP template that hadn't been there in all that time. He claimed I removed it improperly, but I explained to him that WP:BLANKING did not exclude it from being removed at the time I removed it in May. It wasn't until 16 days later, that Todd himself added (or readded) that exclusion to WP:BLANKING. So I went to his page to discuss it and asked Jayron32 if he would be a neutral mediator. I even said I was fine with having the template if it's required; my understanding through a long Village Pump discussion a few weeks ago was that the IP template was not something that would be enforced. In any case, I told Bbb that I'd be fine with having the template but said I'd like to put it lower on the page since there are no rules that say it must be displayed at the top of the page. Finally, I'd ask that some admins please look at my talk page history over the past hour or so and review the flood of edits by I B Wright and 155blue. I would respectfully ask that an admin educate them on that type of editing. Again, I'm sorry to the admins I annoyed and offended. And no, Bbb, you're not on my "bad list". :) I think most of the admins I've dealt with are great, actually. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 18:08, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

The problem is you have a "bad list" as you refer to it. That's classic WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior and there is no place for that on Misplaced Pages. Can someone please put forward a proposed sanction for community ratification? Toddst1 (talk) 18:29, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

It's not just the admins that you have offended, your reasons for reverting edits which include "...stay the f off of my talk page" are uncivil and have been offensive. If a welcome message is considered vandalism and moving an object to its proper place is disruptive editing, then what is right to do? In addition, it would be polite to notify me on my talk page the next that you mention me here.155blue (talk) 18:19, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

155blue, based on the numerous edits you made on my talk page, you apparently do not understand, or not aware of, WP:BLANKING, or the difference between a warning and a template. When someone asks you nicely to stay off their talk page and you come back and back and back and back, that's a big problem. The only way to get the message through to you was to be more assertive. And it worked. After I said, "i told you several times to stay the fuck off my talk page", you didn't return. ;) And btw, you added an IP template to my page when there was one already there. In the future, when there is a contentious issue happening, you should let an admin handle it. But the last thing you should do is keep going back to someone's talk page when they ask you not to. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 18:28, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

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