User talk:Andy Dingley: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 15:45, 17 July 2013 editAndy Dingley (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers160,389 edits →Wikipediocracy ← Previous edit		Revision as of 16:05, 17 July 2013 edit undoLiquidWater (talk \| contribs)973 edits →Taking Wikipediocracy to ArbCom: new sectionNext edit →
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	* re : As I explained in the es: "cat:X gauge in country Y" have their own category tree: ]. The ".. in Britain" cat is now the only exception in the tree with ''sizes only'' (no other country is in there). And correctly, ''all'' its members (one page only) is in the "15in" category ''also''. It should stay there. -] (]) 13:31, 17 July 2013 (UTC)		* re : As I explained in the es: "cat:X gauge in country Y" have their own category tree: ]. The ".. in Britain" cat is now the only exception in the tree with ''sizes only'' (no other country is in there). And correctly, ''all'' its members (one page only) is in the "15in" category ''also''. It should stay there. -] (]) 13:31, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

			== Taking Wikipediocracy to ArbCom ==

			Hi Andy, I think you're raising some very good points about Wikipediocracy. I have been reading the site for about a month, and I'm really shocked by a lot of what's written by Misplaced Pages editors on that page. Why do they edit WP if they are constantly making allegations, outing and harassing editors? Doesn't sound too constructive to me. BTW, i'd be more than happy to assist you with setting up a case :) ]] 16:05, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:05, 17 July 2013

Your AN3 report

There is currently a discussion at ANI. AN3 admins may be reluctant to get into the matter when those at ANI have already looked at it. Would you consider withdrawing the AN3 complaint? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 23:33, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

So not only does Malleus get a free pass for AN3, he gets one specifically because he's also on the carpet at ANI? Andy Dingley (talk) 23:35, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Dennis Brown surely knows how to count reverts if he thinks that a block for 3RR should be considered. Taking the same complaint to AN3 is like asking the other parent. I'm not impressed by the reported behavior, but we are used to thousands of words being spilled over trivia and maybe we don't have to do that this time. EdJohnston (talk) 23:44, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

If m'learned friends at AN3 wish to close this, then so be it. Let them do so. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:54, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

What? Are you kidding?

Kindly be specific. WHERE did I describe you as an "asshole"? Anywhere? Ever? Nope, I don't think so. I have said absolutely NOTHING about you anywhere ever at all at any time. Please leave your WikiLawyering to someone else's Talk Page, I'm not interested in your speculations. =//= Johnny Squeaky 21:48, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Andy Dingley (talk) 23:09, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Andy, I'm not sure where you got the idea I called you an "asshole", I just don't see that anywhere. Can you provide a reference where I called you an "asshole"? Not really sure what you're talking about, but really, I think you and "Span" need to step back and take a deep breath. I really think you need to take a look at your own ego trip and personal motivations in "pounding" my talk page with such unkind and quite frankly, aggressive comments. Seriously, Andy, I'm sure you can round up an Admin to "slap" me for you, but really, what you need to do is step back and take a deep breath and devote your energies to something worthwhile. By the way, I am not really impressed with WikiLawyering, really you should make your case with common sense, if you can. Listen, "Andy", if you can not be a gentleman, don't post on my Talk Page again. I'll simply delete it without reading it, your efforts wasted. By far the best way to work out disputes is to have CIVIL dialog. If you can't do that, go gripe someplace else. =//= Johnny Squeaky 22:36, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Regards to External Links on Solenoid & Piston Valve

Hi there,

I recently added an external link to both Piston & solenoid valves. I am not quite sure why they are deemed as spammy like you said, one is a link to a tutorial on solenoid valves, furthering the readers knowledge with the second being a look at Piston Valves, have you clicked through to the articles or just seen the name 'forum' in the URL and deemed it as spam? I can assure you it isn't.

Regards

Alex Wall — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexjwall91 (talk • contribs) 12:25, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Alex, thanks for discussing this. Yes, I did read the articles. I always do. Please read WP:EL, as it explains the basis for when it's acceptable to add an EL. The confusion is usually that WP is not meant to be a directory of links, even good links. It's an encyclopedia: if something is worth saying, say it on the page. We should not link to stuff when it ought to be in the article anyway. Maybe some of this could be added to the article, then use the site as a reference (rather than an EL) to support it.

There are a few other issues. WP:ELNO has a real downer on any site calling itself a "forum". I don't see that as a big issue here, but others would. Also your own editing history - adding a bunch of links to the same site - is the same as that added by a lot of real spammers, so auto-sniffing your edits is likely to be flagged up by 'bots as suspicious.

I don't see your link additions as spammy, but I don't see them as being detailed enough to meet WP:EL either. Maybe the butterfly valve one, which is why I left it. Piston valve and solenoid valve though, that sort of comment ought to go straight into our articles, rather than being linked, and the EL site can be used as a reference to support it. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:34, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Toynbee article

Terrible article, but I think you should remove the PROD as it is a known 'law'. (which calls it a well-known law). It is however a bad article, pov and written by an author with a COI. Dougweller (talk) 14:26, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Redirected to Arnold J. Toynbee#Civilizations. Dougweller (talk) 14:33, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm leaving it proded, because it's a bad article. I suspect that although Toynbee's law exists, I doubt if this article is a fair statement of it (I've researched enough to judge the first, but not the second). In the nature of such eponymous laws, they're going to be either little more than WP:MADEUP with elbow patches, or they'll be widespread and trivially sourceable. Although we should have an article on this, it's better (per WP:V) to have no article than an article so dubious, when it could easily be of at least an acceptable standard.

If this article was on the ethology of the sasquatch, I'd be happpier to leave it unsourced. That's a hard topic to find sources for. This is an easy topic to find sources for, and they should have been used by now. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:37, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

BC548

Please don't replace un-cited and irrelevant material without an explanation. If you have questions about my edits, please post them to the article talk page or my own talk page. Or, at the very least, provide a useful edit summary. -- Mikeblas (talk) 03:22, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

You tagged the whole article for speedy deletion as a copyio, after one bad copy-paste edit by a passing IP. You've now repeatedly blanked the only sections in this article that add any content above that of a parts catalogue. You've made no positive edits to this article. Are you familiar with WP:IMPERFECT? We don't expect all content to arrive fully sourced and perfectly written. When it isn't, we work to improve it, we don't simply blank it on a personal whim. We certainly don't repeat the same blankings over and over. Andy Dingley (talk) 07:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The sections that you were referring to are original research and have been uncited for more than two years. They're likely impossible to site since they're speculative and referenced. With those OR sections removed, more than half the article was copyvio. You removed the copyvio and reverted the edits while I was probing to see if the rest of the article was plagiarized. I've made several improvements to the article, but you've unilaterally reverted them when you decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Removing bad content is improving the corpus--it lets us focus on the topics that are savlabeable and meaningful, rather than the content that is hopelessly flawed and unrecoverable. -- Mikeblas (talk) 19:28, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Alexander Montagu, 13th Duke of Manchester

The page needs to be brought back to life. I don't think this needs much explanation...he's a Duke. I read the deletion thread and it doesn't look serious at all to me--can't a senior wikipedia editor override it?Zigzig20s (talk) 02:11, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

I raised this at ANI last night, WP:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Alexander_Montagu.2C_13th_Duke_of_Manchester_and_canvassing_at_Wikipediocracy, mostly in regards to the talk: page reply to you having been deleted. The ANI thread was closed an hour after it was opened.

It seems a new problem that Wikipediocracy are calling the shots at WP. However there is still the old problem that admins are faultless, and any attempt to challenge that is resisted. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:55, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Deletion of Chris Alexander

Not sure why you contacted me about this. I've never heard of Chris Alexander (nothing against him). I edited content on the page for Cris Alexander -a different person. 68.8.57.249 (talk) 16:49, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

No-one has touched the Cris Alexander page, nor is there any evidence that anyone has contacted you. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:22, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Join WikiProject Microsoft!

Why don't you join WikiProject Microsoft?

It seems that you have been editing Microsoft-related articles, so why don't you consider joining WikiProject Microsoft, not to be confused with WikiProject Microsoft Windows. WikiProject Microsoft is a group of editors who are willing to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of Microsoft, its technologies, Web-based sites and applications, its important people, and share interests regarding Microsoft. This WikiProject is in the process of being revived and is welcoming any and all editors who are willing to help out with the process. Add your name to the list at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Microsoft/Participants and/or add the userbox {{User WikiProject Microsoft}}. Thanks! ~~~~

Category:Tracked armoured recovery vehicles by country

Category:Tracked armoured recovery vehicles by country, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. DexDor (talk) 06:19, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Suggest you take the Merk dispute to talk

As i suggested in my last revert. Lets not edit war here eh? Irondome (talk) 00:32, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipediocracy

I agree. Unlike Encyclopedia Dramatica, what I have read of Wikipediocracy (which is only in Misplaced Pages) is not humorous; it is malicious. My own position is a minority position, which is that anyone posting a link to Wikipediocracy should be blocked temporarily as a warning. I would politely ask that you take down those links, because illustrating malicious behavior encourages it. Please do not feed the trolls. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:55, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Is that a threat to block me for having raised this? Andy Dingley (talk) 01:01, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't read it that way, but I think Robert has a point about not linking to the posts - the Streisand Effect of doing so outweighs any benefits. There's no point adding to the damage that's already being done. And on a related issue, please see your email. Prioryman (talk) 06:30, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

If I'd raised this issue without evidence it would have rightly been dismissed. Bollocks to this "Streisand Effect". That has already been used repeatedly to excuse Wikipediocracy and to stifle any attempt to rein them in. I was outed by them recently, and my complaints about it were dismissed because "I had a COI" if complaining about my own treatment. Yet the deletion on request of the Alexander Montagu, 13th Duke of Manchester article is seemingly OK and not a COI! So here, when I saw yet another pretty egregious piece of outing, I saw it as time to act against Wikipediocracy. This sort of trolling has gone on too far already.

As to "look at my email", then which one? My obvious email has been full for some weeks now with a troll spoofing supposed Wiki emails and usually calling for me to be blocked about twice a week. They don't seem to have caught this one yet though. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:09, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I totally understand what you're saying and I agree that there is a viable arbitration enforcement issue here. However, Sandstein's comments on AN have convinced me that it needs to be dealt with by Arbcom rather than in public, to avoid further damaging the victim. I think as a matter of basic ethics it would be best to avoid causing further harm. I closed and hatted the AN thread you started (apologies for any treading on toes in the process) for precisely that reason. I'm not going to do the same with your AE request, but to avoid further damaging the victim's privacy I'd advise withdrawing it. The Wikipediocracy post was patently intended to stir up drama here; don't let that succeed. Sandstein is right - send your enforcement request to Arbcom and let them sort it out. Prioryman (talk) 10:35, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I have zero faith in Arbcom, the moment they get to close the door and discuss (or not) in camera. WP:AE has to get some sort of public response, email can just be ignored or flanneled. There comes a point (and Wikipediocracy is there) when we have to start standing up in public. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:08, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

The obvious reaction: http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2658 Andy Dingley (talk) 11:08, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Also this:

"Why does this Andy Dingleberry have such a hate boner for WO?"
"Andy Dingleberry"
Andy Dingleberry (talk · contribs)
Vigilant (talk · contribs)
Adny D1ngg1eb3rry (talk · contribs)

Is interesting. Nice to put a face to one's trolls from time to time. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:11, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Parent cat

The parent category of a category is not added to a page. The page already is member of that parent categpory. -DePiep (talk) 13:09, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Eponymous categories have their lead article page categorized, just as if the page was alone and there was no category. This gives consistent behaviour for pages, it gives a visible category browsing footer on the article page and it avoids a confusion where most readers get very confused about the difference between navigating to pages on a category page or navigating to categories. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I see, this is an existing option. -DePiep (talk) 13:38, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

re : As I explained in the es: "cat:X gauge in country Y" have their own category tree: Category:Track gauge by country. The ".. in Britain" cat is now the only exception in the tree with sizes only (no other country is in there). And correctly, all its members (one page only) is in the "15in" category also. It should stay there. -DePiep (talk) 13:31, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Taking Wikipediocracy to ArbCom

Hi Andy, I think you're raising some very good points about Wikipediocracy. I have been reading the site for about a month, and I'm really shocked by a lot of what's written by Misplaced Pages editors on that page. Why do they edit WP if they are constantly making allegations, outing and harassing editors? Doesn't sound too constructive to me. BTW, i'd be more than happy to assist you with setting up a case :) Liquid Water 16:05, 17 July 2013 (UTC)