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Revision as of 11:06, 22 October 2013

I can understand that people want to feel special and important and so on, but that self-obsession seems a bit pathetic somehow. Not being able to accept that you're just this collection of cells, intelligent to whatever degree, capable of feeling emotion to whatever degree, for a limited amount of time and so on, on this tiny little rock orbiting this not particularly important sun in one of just 400m galaxies, and whatever other levels of reality there might be via something like brane theory  ... really, it's not about you ... Do try to get a grip of something other than your self-obsession. How Californian. The idea that at all costs, no matter what, it always has to be all about you. Well, I think not.

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Not proper response

Hello I hope you are ok. Did I do something wrong to get reverted here, I am not sure? I would like some advice, if you are not busy. Thank you. MarioNovi (talk) 07:25, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd guess that Beyond My Ken thinks you should have added a {{cn}} tag instead. - Sitush (talk) 07:29, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Ok thank you. MarioNovi (talk) 07:34, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Sitush is correct. One should only delete unsourced information if you are certain in your own mind that it is incorrect or misleading to our readers. Otherwise, the proper response it to tag the info with "cn". (Of course, you could also do some research to see if the information is correct or not - it's not necessarily incumbent on other editors to do that.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:56, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

But it is incumbent upon people who add statements to ensure that they are verifiable, which pretty much means that they should source it at the time - WP:BURDEN. I have a mixed opinion of this type of situation: for India-related articles I quite regularly delete without previous tagging, although I do also tag a lot. Some of the choices are down to experience and, yep, some are probably down to what mood I am in at the time. As you are a relative newbie, Mario, I think it is probably best to stick to tagging unsourced stuff except in the situations that Beyond My Ken outlines. If they're still unsourced in, say, six months' time then feel free to remove. - Sitush (talk) 08:04, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm fully in accordance with what you say - much of this a judgment call, based on personal experience & Misplaced Pages experience. In the case of 8th Street / Astor Place, my familiarity with the area gives me the gut feeling that the unsourced info is most probably true, but I agree that it should be sourced. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:11, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

I see so I tag them then wait, it makes sense. Is there a way to find all tagged things so someone can find sources for articles that need them? This is more helpful than "not proper response", thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 05:38, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Melgiri Pandit

This article is heavily edited by an IP hopper who besides any pov issues doesn't understand or agree with WP:NOR as shown by their recent restoration of content I deleted. If you have time, I'd appreciate your putting it on your watchlist. Probably needs more cleaning up as well. How's Gyp? Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 10:06, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

No probs. I've watchlisted it and I note the recent good work of Abecedare. - Sitush (talk) 20:57, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Please review my edit

Hi it's me again if you remember. Recently I've spent considerable time researching and preparing a draft for the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh article. As a start, I re-did the entire lead which I just transferred from my sandbox only to have it reverted with a not so polite reply on the talk page. This is the edit, please review it and tell me what do you think. Sincerely, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 19:49, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Making major changes to controversial topics such as the RSS is a brave thing to do. I wouldn't worry too much about the reaction from Darkness Shines: they have a certain reputation for bluntness (even more so than I do) but there is often good cause underlying it. I've asked for clarification on the talk page and would suggest that you continue discussion there. Plenty of people keep an eye on DS. - Sitush (talk) 20:56, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Vigyani_talk 13:26, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

impressed by your knowledge

dear Shittush! I am very impressed by your knowledge of all everything under the sun. As such out of admiration, I would like to be in touch with you. By the way where do you live and do you have any cell/email to contact. see you and enjoy the autumn. vijax — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.241.106.224 (talk) 18:09, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Rajput Groups of India

I seem to have given you a lot of work, removing the Rajput Groups of India template from several pages. All I did was add the template to every page that appears in that template, but I note you have since removed several names from the template itself.
I don't know if the Rajput Groups of India is a specialist subject of yours, or India/the Subcontinent in general, but I often add templates to the pages linked to in that template. Are you willing to check over any other India/Subcontinent templates before I repeat the exercise in the future?
Arjayay (talk) 17:11, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Hey, don't worry about it. The status of various Indian caste groups is often dubious - they make all sorts of wild claims, a lot of which are accepted only by themselves. As a basic rule, if the article is unsourced then do not add the template because that also is unsourced. Many of the articles should not even exist, per WP:GNG.

What you did has merely given me a kick up the backside: I'm now cleaning up some things that I had intended to clean several months ago! Tbh, if you don't understand the subject area and do not want to delve into it then it is probably best not to add such templates to India-related pages. - Sitush (talk) 17:17, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

‎Shivaji

And its talk page, 182.182.40.150 (talk · contribs) is presumably the same editor. Dougweller (talk) 20:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

The Shivaji stuff seemed very point-y to me and it was an assemblage of a lot of sources of varying quality. I've reverted it for now and just hope that some sort of consensus can be gained on the talk page. - Sitush (talk) 02:16, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Shastri and Kayastha

Yes. I agree with the point you are trying to make. Having said that, in Indian context, for many but not all castes, the surname is caste specific. So Srivastav, Saxena, or Mathur are traditionally associated with the Kayastha caste. Lal Bahadur's surname being Srivastava meant he was probably Kayastha. All I did was to find a book that verified his caste and that is why I included it in the article. Unless, somebody produces evidence to the contrary, aren't we supposed to have AGF ? Please illuminate me on this if I am missing anything in this matter. BTW, I have been editing on Misplaced Pages first under my IP and then as JS for eight years now. Regards.Jonathansammy (talk) 19:00, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

I saw that you changed the reference regarding Shastri being a Kayastha. Unfortunately, I could not see page 28 that you mention in the reference. All I can see is the title of the book. Can you send me a better link so that I can verify . Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 19:11, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

The link is not the important thing, although it is a nuisance when books do not have ISBNs due to age etc. Try this. - Sitush (talk) 19:55, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, all I have to say is Congratulations in finding this reference. I saw it during my research but could not see the page where it said Lal .... was Kayastha. Now I can see it. Well done. Regards Jonathansammy (talk) 20:16, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

I didn't search for the caste name. I just searched for "lal bahadur shastri" among university press books that I was aware of. - Sitush (talk) 20:18, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

List of Iyengars page problem

Hi, Sitush, this is work2win and i want you to help me out. i had recently edited page "List of Iyengars" and had added "Vyjayanthimala" as a person in a category of Entertainers column. The english wikipedia page of "Vyjayanthimala" has clearly mentioned in the summary that she belongs to tamil iyengar family. Same is the case of "Hema Malini". But you have removed both the persons from the list. I tried my level best but could not find the reliable links for both the people separately though same thing is mentioned in their home pages. My question is in absence of reliable source, can a information from his/her wikipedia home page be taken in other wikipedia page linking them indirectly. Work2win (talk) 23:29, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

If, for example, there was a source in the Vyjayanthimala article that showed her self-identifying as a member of the Iyengar caste then you could add her name to List of Iyengars and cite that source in the list. One thing that you have to ensure is that the source does in fact say what is claimed and in the case of Vyjayanthimala this was not true, hence I have just removed the statement. It really is not the end of the world: people in the entertainment industry are almost never defined by their caste and thus it really is rather irrelevant to their notability etc. The only reason that it gets mentioned so much is usually because of caste pov-pushers, desperate to gain some reflected glory for their community. I'm surprised that they don't have better things to do! - Sitush (talk) 23:41, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and please bear in mind that being "born into" a caste is not good enough for Misplaced Pages. I know that the tradition is that caste is inherited but it is also a fact that caste actually changes over time and that people such as Amitabh Bachchan reject all such associations. They must self-identify to comply with WP:BLP. - Sitush (talk) 23:45, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Mises ANI

Hello Sitush. Please move your recent comment above the PROPOSAL section which should only be for Support or Deny. The threaded discussion should be placed above the PROPOSAL. Thanks for your help. SPECIFICO talk 00:03, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

No, sorry. I see no reason to move it and indeed your notion of threaded discussion runs counter to how things are commonly done at ANI. - Sitush (talk) 00:07, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I see that you altered your opening statement after I'd posted a repsonse and only then did you mention your desire for a separate discussion thread. Not that it matters because you ain't getting your way here: just about the only place I know of where your proposed system is routinely used is on ArbCom pages and, frankly, they are a complete mess to read, - Sitush (talk) 00:45, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Your hostility here is wildly disproportionate to a minor request of mine. You are, however, mistaken about the formatting part. Read guidance on RfCs for example and examine other ANI threads. No reply needed. Have a pleasant day. SPECIFICO talk 01:03, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Your officiousness is wildly disproportionate, as are your attempts to game the system. - Sitush (talk) 01:10, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Stubbing

I had not seen your post at AN/I when I suggested the same thing. I support that if that is indeed the best route. Thanks!--Mark Miller (talk) 03:37, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Given the sensitivities surrounding the subject matter, the coincidence may well end up being a case of "great minds get shot down in flames" ;) - Sitush (talk) 03:41, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

HA! Very true.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:47, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Caste : self identification

Hi. Regarding self identification of one's caste, I have some confusion and request you to clarify. For example, Rahul Gandhi gave a statement somewhere during election campaign that he is the Secretary of the party and a Brahmin. But, as already well documented elsewhere, his father is of Parsi origin and mother is a Christian. In such case, can we (In wiki) consider Rahul Gandhi as a Brahmin? I have also opened a discussion regarding this in the talk page of above article and reverted one edit regarding caste. Kindly comment. Thank you. Rayabhari (talk) 08:15, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Carry on

Trying to stay calm and carry on: if you can explain to me where the ground of the battle is that you mentioned on {{infobox person}}, you will be the first to do so. I see people from both "sides" on a way to compromise, working together for goals they share, trying new solutions. - I would like to improve content, can you help? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi Gerda, all three of you - Nikkimaria, Andy and yourself - have recently gone through a bruising encounter that ended up being dealt with by ArbCom. I have no desire to get sucked into the blast area. Initially, I only commented in the thread because Andy appeared to have unilaterally removed something from the template documentation that certainly was not a trivial change.

I have seen people return to problematic areas on umpteen occasions following ArbCom decisions and "snow" decisions at ANI. Almost invariably, they end up overstepping the mark and become blocked, topic- or even site-banned. It isn't worth it and, certainly, Misplaced Pages is not going to break according to whether nationality in an infobox can be inferred or not. Consequently, I just think that you could all use your talents better if you stayed away from infoboxes altogether. Everyone would gain if you did that and there are plenty of other people who could pursue perceived problems if they felt such pursuit to be worthwhile. - Sitush (talk) 11:49, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

What you said above is not new to me, but thank you for the advice. - The arb case decision is under clarification, as you may know. - Please let's look forward (links above): do you see that people work on compromise? Can you help me with content? (I put "letting go of the past" on my talk long ago - on Ash Wednesday - and keep trying.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:23, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd rather not get sucked into it, Gerda. I've got a gut feeling that it is all going to end badly and I don't want to be there when it does. - Sitush (talk) 12:26, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean by "it", - my first request for peer review? - I think the infobox-war is a myth and don't know why the phrase, coined in 2005, is still in use and for what. I understand anybody who is reasonable enough to stay out of that ;) - I was never in. Why some people - including some of the arbs - saw me in, that is beyond my understanding, - I take it, what else can I do? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:10, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, in that case it would seem that I, ArbCom and various other people are all misunderstanding the non-existent long-term non-problems not relating to infoboxes (!) Given that apparent lack of understanding, it is probably best that I stay out. As I said, my initial problem was what appeared to be a substantive unilateral change of documentation that Andy really, really should have discussed first. My concern at that point was not infoboxes per se. - Sitush (talk) 14:11, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Out of the nots, sure ;) - I ask for the last time if you would be willing to look at my first attempt of a request for peer review, - link above or off the first word on my user page, in "dona nobis pacem", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:22, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I slept over this. Different topic: I invite you to take an unbiased view at an article (I tell you no more than that I didn't write it but successfully nominated it for DYK), and then look at the last question on the talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

ps: I like your idea of wording a report but not filing it. If I ever think of reporting someone I will remember to try that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:41, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

It seems very detailed to me but I've no idea regarding tone (sic) issues etc - I was born deaf and have almost no interest in music whatsoever. To modify a UK saying, "what I can't hear, cannot hurt me": I did like punk stuff but that was mainly because it was loud, unsubtle and short, thus not requiring a great deal of attention! In any event, the article appears to have moved on since that diff in February. - Sitush (talk) 08:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for looking! I came to say do that only if you are interested, the tag issue was resolved, against what was perceived an "overly rigid application of well-meaning essays and guidelines; this is a big loss especially for biographies about colourful personages". - Sorry to hear about your deafness, I was not aware of it, - I like your tone! - I sometimes read with pleasure and even translate (to German) articles that I am not particularly interested in, a mathematician here, an architect there, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

NaMO

You being slightly lesser of the devils, i hope you would use this well. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 04:07, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Dharmadyaksha, below is what I drafted as an ANI report. I've decided not to post it right now but please, please bear it in mind:

Dharmadhyaksha (talk · contribs) was once a fine contributor to Misplaced Pages but their attitude changed dramatically some months ago, around the time that they abandoned their prior user name (Animesh Kulkarni) and added the "changing profile" box near to the top of their talk page. From that time on, they have become something of a cheerleader for the likes of the presently topic-banned Yogesh Khandke (talk · contribs). While other cheerleaders, such as OrangesRyellow (talk · contribs) and Sarvajna (talk · contribs) (formerly Ratnakar Kulkarni) both went silent in August, around the time that Khandke was banned, Dharmadhyaksha has merely dialled it down a bit. They've returned to doing more useful stuff but tiresome comments such as this and this today are succeeding in their "niggle" purpose. Can someone uninvolved with India-related stuff on Misplaced Pages please just explain to them that it is unnecessary and encourages poor behaviour in anons and new contributors. I admit to be a far from perfect person myself but it seems that every time Dharmadyaksha crosses my path nowadays, they feel it necessary to stick a pin in me.

You've calmed down a bit in the absence of Yogesh, and I appreciate that, but this sort of thing does weary me. Feel free to add a sentence or two about the marketing of Modi in the run-up to the election. I'd guess that it will have been noted in some other, less gossipy newspaper? - Sitush (talk) 07:02, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

My only intention to ask you to edit it was because of this wrong perception of mine. If i add it to the article it will instantly be reverted; guess why! And that "changing profile" box, changing name, have nothing to do with each other or with my associations with you, others and the ones you mentioned above. If you were to really follow my edits properly around then, you would know that. Anyways... you are free to add two and two to make five and also to post at ANI. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 12:44, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

MOSHEAD

Hello Dear Friend !! WP:MOSHEAD says, "Headings should not normally contain links, especially where only part of a heading is linked.". But that does not mandate that when the heading is not linked partially (but fully) and not even redirected to any other WP Article but the same as the title of the heading by simply putting "]", then it should not contain links. Also, in case of headings of sub-sections, the titles of sub-sections are not underlined like in case of the headings of the sections (where the titles of sections are underlined, that may cause an un-easy feeling or a very narrow chance of confusion to a reader , just in case when the heading is linked in parts 08:35, 20 October 2013 (UTC)). Is it not ambiguous then in case of the headings of sub-sections if not only a part of the heading is liked but the whole (to its very title) ?! Thanks !! ← Abstruce 08:21, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry but I can't work out what it is that you are trying to say, Abstruce. The guideline clearly says that headings should not normally contain links and I see no reason why your attempted link at Bhagat Singh should be an exception to that norm. I think that the basis for the guideline is mainly one of accessibility for people who use screenreaders and similar technology but in any event you are not likely to attract support for doing what you did. - Sitush (talk) 18:34, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Dear Friend, as You can see, I have not even manually reverted the change. And, I AM not even considering doing that, otherwise, I would have mentioned Your Edit to discuss that specific one !! But, I only wanted to know that following the second half "....especially where only part of a heading is linked" of the sentence ("Headings should not normally contain links, especially where only part of a heading is linked"), is the guideline not ambiguous (unclear) if in case a heading, not only a part of the heading is linked but the whole (to its very title) ?! I just wanted to have a general comment from You, then I may have requested to make it a little more unambiguous. I guess I made a little mess out of it, here. Sorry for yanking the chain Thanks !!← Abstruce 20:00, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Section Blanking on Kongu Vellalar

Hello Friend! I don't understand the rationale behind your section blanking in the page. I have seen that, you have done a lot towards maintaining the articles about castes and communities. But I have added certain information which draws from credible book sources and mentions "Kongu Vellalar" in them. I am currently restoring select sections of the page. If you have any objections, t would be good if you take it to the discussion page! Magentic Manifestations (talk) 17:37, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

The burden is on you to justify your additions, not me. However, since you seem not to have taken into account my comments I have indeed opened a thread on the talk page. Much of what you added is similar in nature to stuff that has in the past been added by a prolific sockpuppet called Pondheepankar, so I'm afraid that you'll have to forgive me if I express doubts regarding it on this occasion. I'm not saying that you are that person but the content added by them was repeatedly removed & so reinstatement of it will require a high standard of verifiability/relevance etc. - Sitush (talk)

Please see ...

... my post at RP's talk page. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 03:50, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello

How are you, I hope you are well. I am wondering if you think I have taken your advice ok on how I should change habits on wikipedia. Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 05:39, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Is this missed? Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 05:35, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

You have breached the three-revert rule (WP:3RR) and the 3RR exemptions (October 2013)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Bhagat Singh. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.
Dear Friend Sitush, on Your 3 Revert (18:01, 21 October 2013) , I would like to provide You some suggestions.

Please allow Me to remind You that Misplaced Pages:REVERT says, "However, reverting good-faith actions of other editors may be disruptive and can even lead to the reverter being temporarily blocked from editing. Read the three-revert rule (part of the Edit warring policy)."

You shall also re-read Misplaced Pages:Revert only when necessary. ← Abstruce 16:22, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Abstruce, we keep butting heads like this because you are failing to understand how we operate and have historically failed to do so across a wide range of articles. I know that you mean well but you are still not getting it.

• I suggest that your re-read WP:3RR because I have not breached it
• I suggest that you read WP:BRD because you were bold and I opened a discussion on the talk page at the time of reverting you. That you persisted in adding basically the same sort of stuff about Marxism-Leninism thereafter is not how we do things.
• I also suggest that you read WP:RS and WP:DUE because there is no way that a news source concerning a long-dead person is going to carry equivalent weight with the opinions expressed by academics. However, you are welcome to continue discussing the point. I admit that I find it quite difficult sometimes to understand what you are trying to say and thus there are times when it is better to see if someone else can make sense of it rather than to respond immediately myself. - Sitush (talk) 17:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Dear Friend, Thank You for being sure that I mean well. I really have a positive feeling about it, really . I would like to withhold commenting here at Your User talk page, but may I respectfully ask You to please post brief comments at Talk:Bhagat Singh#Philosophies. Thank You very much, kindly !! Thanks !!

Also, in the mean time, I believe I have discovered the book which may have been used as a Citation by CNN-IBN experts/employees. So, after a little work-out with the Source, I would just be initiating a new and fresh discussion (to discuss about the inclusion of some content in the WP Article Bhagat Singh). Thanks !! ← Abstruce 19:26, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

I am watching that talk page. I'm also doing other things while I await developments there. And, yes, I'm struggling quite often to work out what you are saying. - Sitush (talk) 19:28, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Behavior

As I outlined here, I'm concerned that your recent behavior has crossed the line into harassment. I'm writing this to request that you back off, and to inform you that, if you continue, I will make use of all applicable Misplaced Pages dispute resolution options to deal with this matter. Please consider this to be a formal warning. MilesMoney (talk) 05:50, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Do you really think I give a damn abut your formal warning? I'll just carry on editing as I always have - the likes of you do not scare me: grow up. - Sitush (talk) 11:06, 22 October 2013 (UTC)