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Revision as of 04:36, 26 November 2013

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Hello, Orrerysky, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! -- Brangifer (talk) 23:41, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

November 2013

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. This is a message letting you know that one of your recent edits to Plasma cosmology has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

• ClueBot NG makes very few mistakes, but it does happen. If you believe the change you made was constructive, please read about it, report it here, remove this message from your talk page, and then make the edit again.
• For help, take a look at the introduction.
• The following is the log entry regarding this message: Plasma cosmology was changed by Orrerysky (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.893005 on 2013-11-23T21:13:18+00:00 . Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 21:13, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Misplaced Pages, as you did to Plasma cosmology with this edit, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. -download ׀ talk 21:17, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Your recent editing history at Plasma cosmology shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. -- Brangifer (talk) 22:01, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Misplaced Pages, as you did at Plasma cosmology. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Administrators have the ability to block users from editing if they repeatedly engage in vandalism. Thank you. -- Brangifer (talk) 22:01, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

See WP:BRD and follow it. Failing to do so (in a situation like this) is edit warring, and that's a blockable offense. You must discuss and reach a consensus. Do not remove anymore material. -- Brangifer (talk) 22:01, 23 November 2013 (UTC) (Tweaked per my comment below. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:52, 25 November 2013 (UTC))

I'm afraid I cannot quite agree with that last; failing to follow WP:BRD is not necessarily edit warring, but removal of large parts of an article without consensus is generally considered inappropriate behavior, and may very well result in blocking. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 05:47, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I definitely agree. I meant "in a situation like this". When several editors are editing in conflict, it's the only known way to be relatively certain of who started an edit war. Otherwise it doesn't necessarily involve edit warring. Thanks for bringing that up. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:52, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Advice copied from Arthur Rubin's talk page

This is a copy of my comment in a thread on User:Arthur Rubin's talk page.

Coming from a newbie, that's pretty strong language which reveals a lack of understanding of how Misplaced Pages works. I've been patient with you. I could have already had you blocked for edit warring. Your attitude is what we call "I didn't hear that," in other words you are not learning from much more experienced editors, even though they have left you warnings, advice, and links to more information. We don't completely rewrite articles here. You don't own the article. It belongs to all editors, and you should show some respect for those who have put time into its creation.

We do want article improvement, so small increments are good for a start, considering you're a newbie. Right now you seem to have no sense of the situation. To illustrate, it's like you're wading into someone else's living room and demanding that they operate their home according to the rules which you use at your home. You're demanding they throw out all their pictures and rearrange their furniture because you don't like it, but you don't know WHY they have arranged their home the way it is. Maybe there is a reason. After all, the rules for interior decorating in their home (Misplaced Pages) are FAR different from the rules in your home (your website or blog). The rules are totally different here, and if you don't learn them and listen to what we're telling you, you will end up getting blocked. It's that simple. We are very long suffering with newbies, but when they don't listen and learn, we simply get rid of them. Now show a bit of humility and start asking questions instead of making demands.

Let me introduce you to whom you're dealing with right now: Arthur a very distinguished mathematician in real life and is an administrator here (sysop, 89588 edits since: 2005-08-15). I am a Physical Therapist (with a Physician Assistant education besides that) and an ordinary editor who does not wish to be an administrator (autoreviewer, reviewer, rollbacker, 40068 edits since: 2005-12-18). We are both experienced enough to help you, if you'll allow it. Since you will never be allowed to edit alone here, without other editors having a right to watch your every move, comment on your talk page (you do not own it), and revert your edits when there are ANY disagreements, you'd better get used to working with others. Communication and civility are valued here. That's how we work.

When in doubt, or if you meet any resistance, the proper reaction is to back off, ask questions on the talk page, discuss until a consensus is reached, etc.. Never attempt to force/push your POV into the article over the objections of other editors. The resulting article will likely never satisfy you, and that's okay. That's the way it's supposed to be. Other editors have a right to their input, and they will likely find reliable sources documenting POV with which you disagree, but NPOV requires the inclusion of opposing POV. If a subject is fringe, the article will document that fact and the mainstream POV will be dominant. We simply reflect what RS say.

You also need to remember to use edit summaries for every edit and comment, use the edit history to check for edit summaries before making edits, sign your edits properly (using four tildes (~~~~), etc.. I'm going to leave a welcome template at the top of your talk page. It has lots of good links to help you get up to speed. Read them very carefully before proceeding. -- Brangifer (talk) 23:46, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

@BullRangifer, there haven't been any objections from any other editors. There were bots. When other editors make objections then we can have this discussion. However, I thank you for your guidance and your tutelage. This current page must be changed, so its getting changed. Consider this as an opportunity to take care of something that you admit needs to be done. The current ring of editors really have no business in the editing process for this article. Look at their edit histories. This article should be about Plasma Cosmology not about "Plasma Cosmology & Other Models" for instance, much of the material is out of date, plain wrong, or completely red-herring. So, since we're friends, I don't have to get Richard Knipel on the phone. Orrerysky 00:19, November 25, 2013‎ (UTC)

Reverting a bot is not necessarily a "revert", even for the purpose of WP:3RR. However, (1) as Plasma Cosmology is not an accepted theory, it's hard to say what is part of it and (2) being "out of date" is only a problem for facts, not for theories which were never really "in date". If you can find reliable sources for your statements that parts of the article are not part of "Plasma Cosmology", we can reconsider the fact that reliable sources consider them part of Plasma Cosmology. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 05:51, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't see how whether or not anyone who accepts it is relevant. The topic of the entry is "Plasma Cosmology" not "the personal feelings of people about it." Orrerysky 06:02, November 25, 2013‎ (UTC)

Yes, your personal feelings about it are not relevant here. What RS say is what's relevant, and that will include what has been written about it from various, often conflicting, POV, in many types of sources, and often include the feelings expressed there. How we feel, as editors, is not determinative at all when it comes to content. Otherwise our policies, behavioral guidelines, and formatting guidelines, etc., are quite relevant. -- Brangifer (talk) 07:04, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

The current post is garbage and is riddled with the personal feelings of contributors, false statements, and red herrings. Statements about acceptance are irrelevant being that I don't recall any Poll of Scientists having been conducted. My edit will show that other models are actually subsets of the Plasma Cosmology umbrella I have no history of being involved with this edit war for this article until the past day. My 'edit warring' as you now recognize was with bots. Not people. This article requires a new perspective that is not tainted by these warring parties. If they wish to make contributions after I have made my changes then they are free to do so. This article had an origin somewhere and I see no reason to let that edit stand to begin. It is riddled with errors, outdated material, antiquated arguments, and irrelevant debates. The page will be about Plasma Cosmology. I will include a debate somewhere at the bottom for people to debate about certain observations. If you wish to help, you can help by making format suggestions in my sandbox effort. It is quickly changing but I am ready for bed, so you have the night to make suggestions on styling, formatting, and flow.

Once I am done with my edits I'll make a summary for the change and then we can all enjoy a new template to work with. Orrerysky (talk) 07:15, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I see that we have failed to clear up one of your misunderstandings. (Note that at each step of the following history, you were getting warnings on your talk page.) The first revert you bumped into was indeed performed (correctly) by a bot which stops vandalism, among other things. The next two reverts you met were by two other editors. Your response to them was incorrect in both cases. Already with the first revert from an editor (@User:Download - autoreviewer, reviewer, rollbacker, 77487 edits since: 2008-04-17) you should have stopped and started a discussion, not pressed forward. By continuing to attempt to force your will, you were edit warring. When you then saw my revert and the edit summary which explained clearly what you should do, you again continued your edit war with an edit summary which did not assume good faith (AGF) and made personal attacks (NPA). So with that one you violated three of our rules here (edit warring, failure to AGF, and personal attack).

So you got off to a rocky start, partially because you failed to heed advice. Those things are now on your record and are not forgotten, and your current status is documented as that of an uncollaborative edit warrior with strong ownership tendencies ("The current ring of editors really have no business in the editing process for this article."). You are very lucky that you didn't get blocked, but that can easily change if you continue to ignore advice and not follow our rules here. That's all for now. -- Brangifer (talk) 16:53, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

We seem to be going in circles and beating a dead horse. If you want me to have a conversation with a Bot for not having put in an edit summary which I subsequently did we're going to be going about this for quite some time. If I wanted to talk to a bot, I would go to the CleverBot website. In any case, I'll agree to drop it as this conversation is really nothing more than a distraction. If you would like to make proposals for my Sandbox efforts then I welcome further conversation. Orrerysky (talk) 17:24, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

As I already told you, once I am done with my Sandbox effort I will join in with the talk on the site and announce why I am going to be making the changes that I will be making then we can go from there. However, I will start that conversation after my Sandbox effort is complete. Right now, you're just bothering me by telling meI should have had a conversation with CleverBot first, which to me sounds rather ridiculous. Orrerysky (talk) 17:33, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

On another note, your constant harping on "edit warring" is baseless and without merit. Your own initial warning labelled edit warring as changing a post 3 times in a 24 hour period. Given that one of those reverts were the result of Bot interference, there was only 1 revert. Not 2, not 3, 1. You know what that means? By your own definition I have not engaged in any edit warring whatsoever. So quite frankly, I'm not interested in listening to any more of your baseless accusations. If you have an administrative supervisor I'd like to talk to him before I receive any further harassment from a bad admin. The mods in World of Warcraft have better customer service than this. Given the fact that that Download user's revert was labeled an "autoresponse" I see no reason to believe that wasn't a Bot either, especially since half of his user page is about the scripts he provides. People make mistakes, you're forgiven. Want to help with my sandbox or not?Orrerysky (talk) 23:46, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Arbitration case on plasma cosmology

Hello Orrerysky. Since you've chosen to begin your Misplaced Pages work with the article on Plasma cosmology, please be aware that this was one of the topics involved in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience:

The locus of this dispute in this case is the editing to a group of articles loosely connected to cosmology and related topics, including Big bang, Plasma cosmology, Intrinsic redshift and others.

This topic went to arbitration because of a series of disputes. As a result of the case, administrators are given power to impose discretionary sanctions on individual editors who work on plasma cosmology. Sanctions are only given if editors repeatedly violate Misplaced Pages policies. Read WP:ARBPS if you want to know the details. For your own editing, this should not cause concern provided you take special care that you make changes in the article only with consensus. You should endeavor to make article changes that are neutral in character, and simply reflect whatever can be learned from the published sources without adding any bias, personal opinion, or personal inferences from published information. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 04:36, 26 November 2013 (UTC)