Revision as of 19:11, 16 December 2013 editSPECIFICO (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users35,511 edits →Your use of German and Russian in Gun Control← Previous edit | Revision as of 22:13, 19 December 2013 edit undoGaijin42 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers20,866 edits →apology: new sectionNext edit → | ||
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::Ok, In good faith, I will take it as a bit of humor then. Cheers all. Sorry Specifico, just covering all the bases-] (]) 17:59, 16 December 2013 (UTC) | ::Ok, In good faith, I will take it as a bit of humor then. Cheers all. Sorry Specifico, just covering all the bases-] (]) 17:59, 16 December 2013 (UTC) | ||
:::'''Dziękuję''' ]] 19:11, 16 December 2013 (UTC) | :::'''Dziękuję''' ]] 19:11, 16 December 2013 (UTC) | ||
== apology == | |||
I have come to understand that I may be using a wider definition of holocaust than others generally do. If you interpreted my comment as implying that you were denying the final solution or any of the more widely recognized portions of the holocaust or nazi actions, that was not my intention, and I apologize for speaking in a way that could imply that. In truth my original comment (months ago) was aimed more at steeltrap who was attempting to redefine gun control to mean "only gun control implemented by democratic governments and applied in a non-discriminatory manner", and you may have gotten hit by wide aim. For that I apologize as well. We are not likely to agree on much politically I think, but I do hope to be able to work better with you in perhaps a friendly (or at least cold war) rivalry. I think that during my brief ban there have been some very positive suggestions on the GC talk page that might satisfy (or at least minimize dissatisfaction) on both sides of the argument, and I hope that we can collaborate on improving the article in a way that includes all POVs neutrally and appropriately. ] (]) 22:13, 19 December 2013 (UTC) |
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ANI notice
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
WP:ANI Notice
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
GA reassessment for Murray Rothbard article
Murray Rothbard, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article.
WP:AEGS notice
Individual editor notice and logging in per Misplaced Pages:General_sanctions#Community regarding Thomas DiLorenzo BLP issues discussed at length on the talk page and now going to WP:BLPN.
As a result of a community discussion, the community has enacted editing restrictions, described at WP:AEGS and below.
- Any uninvolved administrator may, at his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working on a page within the topic of Austrian economics, if, despite being notified of these restrictions, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standard of behavior, or any normal editorial process.
- The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length, bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict, bans on any editing related to the topic, restrictions on reverts or other specified behaviors, or any other measures that the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project.
- Prior to any sanction being imposed, the editor shall be given a warning with a link to the community discussion and, when appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines.
- Sanctions imposed may be appealed to the imposing administrator or at the appropriate administrators' noticeboard.
These editing restrictions may be applied to any editor, provided the editor has been previously informed as this message does. This notice does not necessarily mean your current editing has been deemed a problem; this is a template message crafted to make it easier to notify any user who has edited the topic of the existence of these sanctions.
Generally, the next step, if an administrator feels your conduct on pages in this topic area is disruptive, would be a warning, to be followed by the imposition of sanctions (although the warning may be omitted). Hopefully no such action will be necessary.
This notice will be logged at WP:AEGS.
Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 22:49, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
- I just noticed this and had a couple thoughts. Carol is unquestionably involved here, so I don't think you should take this notification as an indication that your behavior has been disruptive. That being said, it is good to be aware of the discretionary sanctions here so I'm not going to remove this. And, as always, extra care should be taken when sourcing claims about living people. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 06:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
FYI, ANI mention
There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 19:36, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Note on Barnstar
It is pretty UGLY, but seeing your name next to it made it pretty. <3 Steeletrap (talk) 22:48, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- You GO, girl. No accident you are a daughter of Athena, goddess of knowledge and intelligence. SPECIFICO talk 22:56, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- Meh. I'd totally prefer being the goddess of spunk. :P Steeletrap (talk) 04:27, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Mises Sanctions as a Horror movie plot: Anyone can die?
Today's cascade of notifications reminds me of a 90s slasher horror film like Scream. Anyone -- that means you and I, as well as User:Binksternet, User:carolmooredc, User:Srich32977, User:MilesMoney, or even new Sheriff User:Sitush could die at any moment, at the bloodied hands of a callous, capricious, admin with many other murders to his name. (Though he totally doesn't deserve it, my money is on Srich, since he's too brave to stay in the safe house, and will actively seek to try to seek information from/impersonate the killers.) Since Miles Money appears to be a zombie (he was topic-banned from ALL Austro-libertarian articles prior to 'rising from the dead' in a re-opened ANI), I don't see him being killed again. Steeletrap (talk) 04:22, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- You anthropologists are always one step ahead of the game, I'd say. Or, maybe it's just that women's intuition you were born with. SPECIFICO talk 04:36, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- I strongly object to being called a zombie; I prefer the term white walker. More seasonal.
- I've said it before, but I'll say it again: WP:ANI is desperately random. You never know what a report is going to turn into, or whom it's going to turn against. This one is all about Carol, but she's trying to name everyone who has ever edited an Austrian economics article, perhaps to spread the wealth. I guess her actions make sense, in a certain way, but I don't understand why admins put up with it. Don't they know that this makes a laughing stock out of them? MilesMoney (talk) 06:08, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
For some reason, Rich has decided that the above is a personal attack. As usual, he's a bit vague when it comes to backing up the accusation. For example, precisely how am I attacking her? By saying that she brought up the names of other editors? Rich's accusation rings false. MilesMoney (talk) 06:29, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- I've forgotten whether I'm allowed here or not but if anyone is "trying to name everyone who has edited an Austrian economics article" then Steeletrap's opening comment here is a more complete example. And, Miles, while it was not a personal attack in my opinion, the safest way for you to avoid what will be a very nasty sanction is never to discuss the motives or actions of other contributors except at centralised noticeboards such as ANI. I've survived under a sanction situation for a long time now: if the people involved in this circus keep their noses clean then AEGS won't be enforced. Alas, few of you are doing so and it says much for the admins that you malign here that they do tend to overlook infractions unless they become serious. - Sitush (talk) 07:14, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- There's a very good reason I'm commenting here and not on WP:ANI, which is that I'm quite consciously avoiding the bait. You reported Carol for maligning the motives of others, and her response is... to malign the motives of others, such as myself. This has nothing to do with me and I want nothing to do with it.
- In a sane world, some admin would require her to deal with the issues you raised instead of trying to create a circus environment by casting blame far and wide. We don't live in such a world, apparently, but I'm not interested in joining that circus so I'm ignoring her canvassing and avoiding that ANI report.
- Does her behavior make a mockery of ANI? I think it does. But if anyone is maligning the admins, it's Carol. MilesMoney (talk) 07:28, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Miles, you are a one-man mischief machine. Please keep on your new best behavior, or "behaviour" as you might say. Especially on my talk page. Sitush, you are welcome on my talk page so far as I know. Only Srich was uninvited, I think, but he posts here all the time anyway. Welcome to my talk page. SPECIFICO talk 15:49, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Wait, did people seriously take offense at my above post? If I call admins elves or dragons (as opposed to supernatural serial killers) is this also offensive/a PA? Steeletrap (talk) 17:04, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- My browser's spell-checker enforces American spellings, so I type "behaviour" and it turns into "behavior". If only it could automatically edit out my mischief!
- So far, the extent of this mischief is that I refuse to be baited. Should I feel guilty? MilesMoney (talk) 04:11, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Wait, did people seriously take offense at my above post? If I call admins elves or dragons (as opposed to supernatural serial killers) is this also offensive/a PA? Steeletrap (talk) 17:04, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
November 2013
Please stop attacking other editors. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Your posting of personal details about another editor, by linking the blogs, is WP:TPNO. – S. Rich (talk) 18:29, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
- The link specifically refers to this statement in Carolmoordc's own words: "Note: If you see some resemblance to the wikipedia article on the Samson Option, I also worked on that and contributed many of the same facts from many of the same sources." -- Nothing to justify your behavior there. You are not allowed to comment on this page, so no reply please. SPECIFICO talk 18:36, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Stop restoring the link to that blog please, it is a BLP vio, CMDC is a real person after all so BLP applies. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:33, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
- Upon reviewing the ANI thread, I have blocked you for 48 hours. I have no idea what your or Carol's position on Austrian economics or any particular issue is. But it is plainly evident that your interpersonal behavior is not in the slightest helpful. Please take the next few days to reconsider your actions and adopt a different approach once the block expires. If you wish, you may request a review of my block by following the procedure listed at WP:GAB. NW (Talk) 00:10, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
WP:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#WP:TPNO violation by User:SPECIFICO
There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
Israel-Palestine and Sexology arbitrations vs. false allegations
Notification in lieu of official template that doesn't seem to exist for users - Re: your off topic and/or no evidence/diffs and/or manufactured evidence and/or trumped up allegations against me at two recent ANIS (here and here), as well as in past talk page discussions which I should have reported to ANI previously.
- I’d like you to be aware of Israel-Palestine arbitration and Sexology arbitration . Both allow reports regarding questionable or false accusations of bigotry in Misplaced Pages discussions. Please study them and cease your false allegations.
If you truly believe there is an issue, bring it with actual evidence/diffs to the proper forum and I will be glad to debunk all of your false or extremely trumped up accusations. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 15:05, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
- Carol, why are you harassing someone who is currently blocked and has remained silent on their own talk page? What possible benefit could your post bring to Misplaced Pages? Please reconsider your deeply hostile and counterproductive behavior. MilesMoney (talk) 19:11, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
The joys of friendship
This was a little off topic for ANI, but I wanted address it:
- I consider it a Personal Attack for you to call MilesMoney my friend and you should strike that remark. SPECIFICO talk 16:41, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
- Done, sorry (and confused!) that you found that offensive, but clearly, you deserve the right to characterize your relationship or lack thereof however you wish. My apologies for apparently implying something you didn't want implied.HectorMoffet (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
- Hector, please state exactly what was it that you were implying and please explain why you are confused that I would find it offensive? Thanks. User:SPECIFICO
Hey Spec,
I really wasn't "implying" anything other than that, based on your friendliness towards MM, it was appropriate to list him as your friend. When you objected, I removed it.
The bigger message I was getting at in my original comment is that if you really want to support a fellow editor, you need to help them see the ways in which they are unintentionally sabotaging themselves. So often, our natural human loyalties lead us to want to defend the people who have defended us, and to support the people who have supported us. That loyalty has kept our species alive, and I do respect that you want to stick up for MM.
But there was a consensus of 6 editors who opposed an edit, and MM felt entitled overrruled them all. In essence, telling six people that he believes his opinions matters more than all of theirs combined. That trajectory, if continued, is an unpleasant one. The first six editors he offends will over look it, but after awhile, the editors he's offended and hurt add up, until he is asked to leave the project.
The point of going to ANI wasn't to say that MM is a bad person, or to say that he should be banned from the project. The point was to say that he needs to change his behavior in order to thrive in our community.
Really stop and think, in the long term, are you helping MM by supporting his actions? Or is your support, though well-intentioned, making it harder for him to find clarity?
Sincerely hoping this helps in some way, HectorMoffet (talk) 23:06, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
- Hello, Hector. You did the right thing to move the conversation here and off the ANI. I have been a harsh critic of Miles and have instructed him repeatedly to tone down his manner of speech and to ignore various editors who troll newbies for blood on WP. He's not my friend. I have no interest in helping him. I don't want to stick up for him. I don't recall ever having exhibited "friendliness" to him. What I have done is speak up for due process, fairness, truthtelling, and what I view as basic civil liberties which I expect to prevail on the web just as in real social or governmental processes. To be blunt, to suggest that my motivation or goal is anything else is to question my good faith and honest behavior on WP.
- As I understand it the issue on Rosen was a BLP issue and policy is very clear that we err on the side of caution and leave such disputed content out of the article until we can be sure that it would be no violation to include it. Your revert violated this principle. It was wrong. You should not have done it. Miles explained that to you. You chose to escalate and turn that simple dispute into a far-and-wide discussion of his behavior to which you recruited various editors who have complained to or about MilesMoney in the past. I didn't find most of your diffs very convincing. They omitted context. As an experienced editor, you might have realized that as with most ANI threads, almost any reference to a complex set of interactions can set off a free-for-all. I was sorry to see you do that. I don't believe it was constructive.
- A number of editors spoke up in support of MM and against your ANI. Good for them. I wrote a short post about the social structure of WP. I presume you've read and considered it. I have no interest in helping MM. You should reflect why you continue to be convinced I have such a motive. He does happen to be one of the more knowledgeable and clear-thinking editors around some of these articles and so I hope you will consider what you might have done differently or could do better in the future to support him and his navigation of this unusual community on WP. Certainly your ANI was ill-conceived, ill-timed, ill-stated. It only served to promote the usual confused battleground chatter. I don't know whether the ANI is still open, but if it is I again urge you to withdraw it.
- Thanks again for stopping by. SPECIFICO talk 00:08, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
- Specifico, I'm glad that I was sat down when I read this. Aside from pointless musings at ANI, which are totally off-topic and have (perhaps inevitably) drawn an equally off-topic response from Carol, I see that you are pontificating here in a similar style. Although it is true that you have on occasion tried to rein in the excesses of MM, there is much to suggest that you are more of a facilitator for one of the more obvious pov-pushers on these types of articles (another one being CMDC). It would probably be best to let Hector make their own mind up, even though you are entitled to your opinion. Either way, MM is not going to be around here for much longer unless they dramatically change their attitude. Even allowing for newbie status & some spurious templating, it is a long time since I've seen someone's talk page contain quite so many warnings & advisories over such a short period without them being blocked, and still the suspicions seem to persist that this is a sock account. If you want to help MM then the best thing you can do is not blame everyone else & the system for MM's failings: you're kidding him and yourself. - Sitush (talk) 15:53, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, but I do not want to help MilesMoney. On that count, you don't seem to have understood my remarks at ANI or here, but that's OK too. You're welcome to read more closely or ignore. Let's call this thread closed. My post on the ANI was a direct response to a point mooted there by... Sitush. Follow the indents. On this page, I wasn't addressing you and it's not clear what purpose it serves for you to repeat your opinions in this context. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 16:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
- Specifico, I'm glad that I was sat down when I read this. Aside from pointless musings at ANI, which are totally off-topic and have (perhaps inevitably) drawn an equally off-topic response from Carol, I see that you are pontificating here in a similar style. Although it is true that you have on occasion tried to rein in the excesses of MM, there is much to suggest that you are more of a facilitator for one of the more obvious pov-pushers on these types of articles (another one being CMDC). It would probably be best to let Hector make their own mind up, even though you are entitled to your opinion. Either way, MM is not going to be around here for much longer unless they dramatically change their attitude. Even allowing for newbie status & some spurious templating, it is a long time since I've seen someone's talk page contain quite so many warnings & advisories over such a short period without them being blocked, and still the suspicions seem to persist that this is a sock account. If you want to help MM then the best thing you can do is not blame everyone else & the system for MM's failings: you're kidding him and yourself. - Sitush (talk) 15:53, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Invitation
Hey Specifico, glad to see you back. I hope all is well with you. As you have been one of the regular editors participating in articles related to Austrian Economics, and I was hoping I could convince you to participate in a small experiment on dispute resolution. It's formatted as a simple question and answer, with a hint of RfC/U, aimed at getting participants to talk with one another, recognize potential problems, and with any luck, commit to fixing those problems. The page is at User:Adjwilley/Austrian_economics and you are free to edit at your leisure. ~Adjwilley (talk) 00:18, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
- Hello Adjwilley. Glad to participate. I am a bit preoccupied with some family matters but I will contribute -- perhaps piecemeal -- and should be able to get my thoughts up in the next week or so. SPECIFICO talk 16:06, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks! ~Adjwilley (talk) 16:21, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
- I appreciate your dedication to the thankless role of Admin at WP, and this seems like a promising initiative. SPECIFICO talk 16:23, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks! ~Adjwilley (talk) 16:21, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Formal mediation has been requested
The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Austrian economics". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 22 December 2013.
Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 18:47, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
gun control rfc
As you were involved in a previous discussion on this topic, I am notifying you of a new RFC on this topic. Talk:Gun_control#Authoritarianism_and_gun_control_RFCGaijin42 (talk) 16:32, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Your use of German and Russian in Gun Control
Your use of the German and Russian language in the gun control article in reference to the Jewish and Russian Holocausts could be misconstrued as insensitive or a hate speech, especially since this is the English language Misplaced Pages. Please consider changing them to English so that we can keep Misplaced Pages devoid of such insensitivities. I'm still considering whether to report you for hate speeches and harassment. -Justanonymous (talk) 17:09, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
- I disagree. Sentences were not posted. Single words which are typically understood by literate people. Insensitivity, harassment, hate speech? Nope. – S. Rich (talk) 17:47, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
- Respectfully, I also disagree - while I certainly disagree with specifico's argument, I took his bilingual !vote as a bit of humor. Gaijin42 (talk) 17:56, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
- Ok, In good faith, I will take it as a bit of humor then. Cheers all. Sorry Specifico, just covering all the bases-Justanonymous (talk) 17:59, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
- Dziękuję SPECIFICO talk 19:11, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
- Ok, In good faith, I will take it as a bit of humor then. Cheers all. Sorry Specifico, just covering all the bases-Justanonymous (talk) 17:59, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
apology
I have come to understand that I may be using a wider definition of holocaust than others generally do. If you interpreted my comment as implying that you were denying the final solution or any of the more widely recognized portions of the holocaust or nazi actions, that was not my intention, and I apologize for speaking in a way that could imply that. In truth my original comment (months ago) was aimed more at steeltrap who was attempting to redefine gun control to mean "only gun control implemented by democratic governments and applied in a non-discriminatory manner", and you may have gotten hit by wide aim. For that I apologize as well. We are not likely to agree on much politically I think, but I do hope to be able to work better with you in perhaps a friendly (or at least cold war) rivalry. I think that during my brief ban there have been some very positive suggestions on the GC talk page that might satisfy (or at least minimize dissatisfaction) on both sides of the argument, and I hope that we can collaborate on improving the article in a way that includes all POVs neutrally and appropriately. Gaijin42 (talk) 22:13, 19 December 2013 (UTC)