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December 19

The top speed of a cave spider, and a silverfish.

This is a very strange question but i am looking up the speed of some various creatures, and i have two that are missing. I need to know the top speed of some form of common poisonous cave spider, and the top speed of a silverfish. If this data or any data relating to speeds of these creatures is known, please share!

Thank you! 216.173.145.47 (talk) 02:06, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Insert obligatory Monty Python reference before the Brits wake up. Sai Weng (talk) 05:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

African or European silverfish? --Jayron32 07:56, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

This paper covers silverfish (Lepisma saccharina) locomotion in great detail, and gives a running speed of 0.4 m/s. Tevildo (talk) 10:40, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

The cave spider (Meta menardi) is generally described as "slow-moving" - I've not been able to find any numbers as yet, but this and this are videos of the spider, showing it moving at a couple of inches a second. Tevildo (talk) 11:08, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Doing a Desmond

Hello, thank you for your help in understanding what seems to be a British expression I found in the comments page of The Guardian : "He did a Desmond at university". What does this mean? And where does this expression come from? May I add another question? In the same comments pages, commentators mentionned people getting a 2.1 or a 2.2 at university. What does it mean? Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.232.63.116 (talk) 06:53, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

The Desmond part is sort of explained here. -- Jack of Oz 07:39, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

It's rhyming slang for a certain degree classification, a 2:2 (as in Desmond Tutu). Not sure how much that is actually used though, I've never heard it in real life. Might be a London thing, or maybe it's just not used that much these days. Fgf10 (talk) 07:56, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

In the 1990s, I heard it used frequently by students from all over the country. Its use seems to have died away, perhaps in parallel with Tutu's lower public profile, or maybe it's because I have much less occasion to speak with students now than I did then, given that I was, but am no longer, a student. --Dweller (talk) 11:09, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Better a Desmond than a Douglas. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:55, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

One references Home Secretary to give the OP a hint, but not the answer. :) Tevildo (talk) 20:58, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

One, incidentally, didn't even get a Douglas, because one failed the practical examination. Was there a colloquial term for one's degree? Tevildo (talk) 20:59, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you all for your explanations. Even though the expression seems to be "old" (1990s), I saw it this week in the Guardian's website, and more specifically comments by readers about one article.

It's the first time I asked a question on this site. It's opening a whole new world for me... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.232.63.116 (talk) 08:38, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Blackboards in US universities?

Just watched a recent episode of Bones (TV series). A nerdy professor was seen working at his blackboard several times during the show. Most tertiary institutions I'm aware of in Australia use whiteboards almost exclusively, and often the electronic forms of those. But I've seen similar scenes in other American TV and movie coverage of academia. Is this reality, or just a cliché? HiLo48 (talk) 10:57, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Sure, most of them have blackboards, in my experience. They have several advantages over whiteboards. They're easier to erase. They don't have that awful smell. And they're already there. --Trovatore (talk) 11:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh, forgot one — a piece of chalk never "goes dry". --Trovatore (talk) 11:01, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

And both blackboards and whiteboards can make horrible screeching sounds. I'd rather see electronic boards, where students can download a copy, instead of having to decide whether to read and copy or listen to the lecture. StuRat (talk) 11:12, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Blackboards have no advantages over whiteboards. And is as obsolete as the abacus.

• Whiteboard markers will last longer than chalk, which can snap and will dry out only if the lid is left off.
• Whiteboards can be cleaned with any fabric, dry or wet, while a blackboard needs a wet rag to avoid scrubbing.
• Chalk is harder to come by than markers in most shops.
• Whiteboards are clearer and allow for easier readability, especially in a dimly lit room.
• Whiteboards work well with projectors to run windows programs on the board, blackboards do not, and i don't believe many would even attempt for a multitude of reasons.

Whiteboards win =P ツ Jenova20 12:23, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

The abacus is by no means obsolete - see Soroban. Tevildo (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

It's not really that clear-cut. Whiteboard markers last longer, but are more expensive and it's harder to gauge how much is left. What you can buy from shops is irrelevant to institutional use, And whiteboards do not offer better readability in all lighting conditions. They're more susceptible to glare. And the point about projectors is less useful because any classroom with a chalkboard will almost certainly have a pull-down projector screen already installed. (Though I'll grant that it's nice to have a screen you can write on.)

I don't know about you but, in my life I've seen many whiteboards ruined when someone used the wrong marker or wrong cleaning solution. I don't know that I've ever seen a ruined blackboard. Worse, many whiteboards also have a finish that wears off with age, making it difficult or impossible to erase them completely. (Some blackboards do to, but mostly cheap consumer ones. Good ones can last a century.)

Smart-boards are awesome, but the technology is new enough that it still carries a lot of hassle and technical issues. (Not to mention competing standards.)

New classrooms should certainly built with new technology, but the case for upgrading the old ones isn't really as clear-cut. Especially if the classroom is old enough that the chalkboard is actually built into the wall, and not just an off-the-rack board that was screwed onto some drywall. APL (talk) 00:14, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Obviously some people prefer blackboards. I'm a university professor, and I much prefer chalk dust on my hands over marker residue. It also annoys me that I can't tell when my markers are about to run dry. It's pretty easy to tell by looking how much life remains in a piece of chalk. Staecker (talk) 13:05, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

No idea where to find a reference on how common one is over the other, but when I started college in 2003 there were no whiteboards in any of my classes. I don't recall seeing them in any other school I've been in since then. I would guess that it's mainly cliche at this point. Katie R (talk) 13:06, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, but when the chalk gets really small and is difficult to use, and you're about to need a new stick. Ever used it anyway and scratched your nail down a chalk board? Noise aside, the feeling is horrendous and makes me cringe just to think about. Thanks ツ Jenova20 13:24, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Haven't seen a blackboard used on a British campus since the mid 1970s. All rooms now equipped with electronic whiteboards. Next thing is supposed to be that we all have iPads. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:54, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

The iPad thing is almost criminal in my opinion. I'd like to know how many shares of Apple stock the LAUSD superintendent has. How can you in good conscience promote a platform owned by a single company? If it were Android devices I wouldn't mind so much; that would be a little short-term gift to Samsung, but in the long run there'll be lots of choices. --Trovatore (talk) 20:33, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

You're right, and I might question the move for the reasons you say. It's supposed to be in order to keep up with the globalisation of higher education but if blackboards are still in use at MIT… I hardly use a board at all now. Lectures are expected to be on PowerPoint. Itsmejudith (talk) 08:00, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

PowerPoint is for wimps. I use Beamer. --Trovatore (talk) 11:30, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

That would take the students out of their comfort zone. There has to be a .ppx posted in advance of the lecture and it has to be posted on…. Blackboard. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:27, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Obligatory cartoon --Trovatore (talk) 19:49, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

LOL. Duly copied into PP for 1st lecture of 2014. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:37, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

• The question is like asking why does England have architecture by Christopher Wren while Chicago had the first skyscrapers. Timing. British settlement in North America dates back 400 years, while Australia was only discovered by Darwin's transport, the Beagle, and only officially chartered by royal decree in 1971 as part of the celebration of Olivia Newton-John's first solo album.

Unfortunately, world slate reserves were increasingly depleted during the 20th century, with the extinction of the slate-tusked Irish Elephant in 1950 ending the supply of new slate. After Ireland, the US has the largest stock of remaining slate ivory. Forced to use an inferior synthetic product, the Australians nevertheless sing the praises of whiteboards, doubtless out of a wounded sense of national pride.

See also the story of the land-grant colleges Cornell and Rutgers, and how the former, but not, to its shame, the latter, managed to become a Ivy League college after the Ivy-League Ivy Blight of the 1890's. μηδείς (talk) 17:16, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I know that's an attempt at humour, but my question wasn't a "Why? one. It was a "What? question. Just seeking the facts. Happy to draw my own conclusions on the why. (Unless it's obvious. And I don't think it is yet.)

I think your question was more if than what, and the answer is yes. μηδείς (talk) 01:45, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

You need to teach a course in creative writing. If you don't already. :) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 18:23, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I finished school in the 2000s and both my first and secondary school had blackboards, with the secondary school having blackboards and whiteboards about 50/50. Maybe it's up to personal preference of the teacher which they have to work on? Thanks ツ Jenova20 17:26, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Probably a function of what they can afford and/or what they feel like spending. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 18:23, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't as fancy as Eton, i'll grant you that ツ Jenova20 09:23, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Just thought of a secondary question. Is the Bart Simpson blackboard scene equally realistic for American elementary schools these days? (I know it's been around since the show began.) HiLo48 (talk) 02:02, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

The punishment has nothing to do with the type of surface written upon. Or are you asking something else? μηδείς (talk) 02:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I'm familiar with that type of punishment. Had to do it a few times myself as a kid, but it was on paper, not on the board, and the more constructive teachers would have us copy out a large slab of text from a book that was actually relevant to the subject. No, my question was again about the use of a chalkboard/blackboard. Are they still common in US elementary schools? They're very rare in Australian schools. (No comment from me as to what's best. As a teacher myself, I'm genuinely curious.) HiLo48 (talk) 02:26, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I've heard anecdotally of a couple places in the US switching from chalk to whiteboards because the dust upset some people's allergies. Perhaps in a generation they'll all be that way. Of course, this being Misplaced Pages, we must point out that the best institutions use Sakai, not Blackboards. Sorry, the joke wrote itself. Sai Weng (talk) 04:19, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Every school I've gone to (and I have a list) had multiple buildings and I saw both. I think it would be a shame to graduate from college and never have seen a blackboard (or even better, those weird green ones). Which they have has no bearing on the quality of the institution. Newer construction will probably favor whiteboards, but go watch any of the MIT lectures and you'll see a 3 panel multi-board setup... with chalk. I'd be remiss if children never had to hear fingers on a chalkboard. Shadowjams (talk) 05:39, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I wonder which one costs more. I imagine chalkboards are more expensive than whiteboards, but the markers are more expensive than the chalk. So, the question then, is if over the life of the two, does the cost of the markers eventually make the whiteboard system cost more ? (And personally, the fumes from those dry erase markers just about makes me pass out.) StuRat (talk) 12:45, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm sure someone's done this math. But I can't find anything. (Too many false search results from people comparing different brands of smartboards.) APL (talk) 00:22, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

I attend Brooklyn College, a high quality if someone gritty (i.e., not fancy or lavishly endowed university) public university in New York City. My experience is that the smaller and older classrooms still have blackboards, and the professors use them gladly and effectively. The large lecture halls and more recently renovated classrooms all have whiteboards.--24.228.94.244 (talk) 00:58, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Non-profit corps

Why can't a CEO who also owns 51% of the company pay all the would-be profits to himself as salary, declare that there was no profit, and thus avoid any corporate taxes ? StuRat (talk) 11:15, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Most developed countries have some of system for protecting minority shareholders. In particular, see our article on Shareholder oppression and, for example, this article on UK . In a lot of countries, even with no explicit regulations, minority shareholders can take the management of the company to court since the management should act in the best interests of all shareholders (and some other stakeholders, depending on local practice) and not just the majority holders.129.178.88.84 (talk) 11:43, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, but I'm more interested in the "cheating the government" aspect rather than the "cheating the minority shareholders" aspect. So, for the case of my example, let's say the minority shareholders are all the CEO's kids, and are fine with him taking the huge salary, or maybe we could say that the would-be profits are evenly divided among all the shareholders, who are made officers of the company and paid it as a salary, versus a dividend. So, are there laws to prevent this ? StuRat (talk) 12:56, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Since I missed the part about taxes, even if one owns 100% of the company, it rarely makes sense (certainly in Europe, maybe not in the US) to pay out the profits as a salary, since salaries are often taxed (including social charges) higher than coporate profits + dividends. 129.178.88.84 (talk) 13:05, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I think that an individual could do as you describe in the United States, but it wouldn't "cheat the government" or offer much advantage to the majority shareholder. Even in the United States, the top marginal individual tax rate is higher than the top corporate rate. (Social charges would be trivial, since the main one, FICA, is not levied in the plutocratic United States on income over $114,000.) While there are various tax shelters individuals can use to lower their tax rate, such shelters are available to corporations too. A smarter strategy for such an individual would be to put the profit into the corporation's cash reserves and then, eventually, sell the corporation, or alternatively award himself stock options in lieu of pay. The cash reserves would be reflected in the sale price or share price, and the seller could claim the proceeds as long-term capital gains, which are taxed at a much lower rate than salary income. Wealthy people in the United States find lots of ways to claim income as capital gains rather than ordinary salary income for this reason. Marco polo (talk) 20:06, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

What you describe is actually a common practice: The corporation calibrates the salary of its executives/shareholders to equal what would otherwise be its annual income, so that there are no net profits. The recipients still have to pay taxes on their salaries, of course, but it means that these monies are taxed only once, not twice. For various reasons, including the ones Marco polo alludes to, it doesn't make sense in every scenario. John M Baker (talk) 21:47, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Common where? Let's say the company is able to write off all operating expenses one to one with profits (which reflects a gross misunderstanding of how corporate tax works)... the "employee" CEO is still taxed on that income at the standard income tax rate, which as others have pointed out, is higher than the corporate rate for most people you'd contemplate doing this. Moreover, as a practical matter the study of corporate law is either about tax or it's about minority shareholders. The Delaware Corporate Code has intricate rules about minority shareholder protection that makes these sorts of schemes difficult to pull off in most corporations that rely on corporate identity for its actual purpose, which is efficient capital. There are also a handful of business structures that allow pass-through taxation without the "loophole" of paying salary, such as LLCs, LLPs, plain old partnerships, and even individual businesses. They all have similar business expense deductions like the one that's oversupposed in the OP. Shadowjams (talk) 05:13, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the tax rate, I think the issue is, given the choice of distributing all would-be profits as either salaries or dividends, aren't they taxed twice if distributed as dividends (once as business profits, then again as either income or capital gains ?). And I'm talking about a scenario with a small business where all shareholders are also employees, so they can take the money either way. StuRat (talk) 06:37, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

That's correct for a typical C-Corp stu, but for a very long time, and still today, a huge number of businesses are not "corporations", which typically means a c-corp. There are partnerships, LLCs, LLPs, PCs, and a host of other business arrangements that all feature pass through taxation. Not to mention just running a business on your own ("sole proprietorship"). All of those treat income gained as transparent to the "business" structure on top of it, but some provide differing legal protections. I'm sure there are tax code discrepancies between all of them and that's what people pay $300/hr for... but on a fundamental level, there is no free lunch with C Corps. In fact, the traditional corporate structure has double taxation problems, as you seem to know. Shadowjams (talk) 06:58, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I guess a more fundamental answer to your question is that (absent some weird tax thing... which is possible) nobody who had majority ownership would organize a company like that in the first place. Instead they would use one of the more flexible limited partnership or limited liability corporation methods, which protect investors legally. But it also taxes income to individuals as "earned income" in the typical IRS way. Yes there's payroll tax vs. independently employed tax issues, and I have no idea how those work out. Similarly, there's all sorts of deductions that certain businesses can take, but those largely apply regardless of the corporate structure (which is almost always state based... it's based on state law... federal corporations created by congress are incredibly rare). There may be huge exceptions to what I've said in the tax area, and I know for a fact the code is full of economically inefficient loopholes like the one you suggest, but I seriously doubt you've stumbled upon one so generic. Shadowjams (talk) 07:08, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks all ! StuRat (talk) 14:29, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Longest article on a person

I have noticed that the wikipedia articles on Sachin Tendulkar and Michael Schumacher are really long. Which the longest wikipedia article on a person. Also which article contains the maximum number of ciitations? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.203.40.216 (talk) 19:55, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

For the first question, have a look at Special:LongPages. Currently, it looks like your person is René Vilatte. 184.147.136.249 (talk) 20:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles with the most references is edited manually. Bobby Fischer currently has 532 references. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:42, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

December 20

What are these peanuts called?

A colleague recently brought peanuts back from Japan. They are very dry roasted, the skins are black. Here's a picture of me holding them:

The packaging was all in Japanese - stupidly I didn't think to take a picture of the packaging itself. Anyhow, they're delicious and I'd like to know what they are called so I can find them in the UK. Or San Francisco as I'll be moving there soon.

Thanks! Julia\ 11:02, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

They are roasted black soybeans. Check on Google Images. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 11:12, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Here is a guide to Japanese groceries in San Francisco. You can do your own search on Yelp for Japanese groceries in the UK. A little poking around on Yelp suggests that there are a few Japanese groceries in London, one in Manchester, and none in any other part of the UK. Marco polo (talk) 18:56, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Julia\ 20:38, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

December 21

Todd Akin - what is he up to these days?

Laying low. I can find no news about him using Google News since early 2013, and he does not maintain an official webpage. His campaign website has not been updated since the 2012 election, and his twitter and facebook feeds are similarly moribund. --Jayron32 01:41, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Whom is he laying low? -- Jack of Oz 01:54, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Jack, this is one of my spouse's pet peeves, seen on plenty of television shows. I point you too to meaning number nine "(intransitive, nonstandard) to lie (be in a horizontal or resting position)". I don't expect this to be any more successful here either :-) ---Sluzzelin talk 01:59, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Jack's comment should be followed by a "rimshot" sound effect. As regards the "BLP violation", it would have been sufficient for the OP to say that Akin's comments triggered controversy and very possibly cost him his chance to win the senate election. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:07, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Akin seems to have made an attempt to launch himself as a voice of conservatism last spring, as this story and indicate. However, I could find nothing more recent about him. He has 5,000+ followers on Twitter. He is 67 years old and although he is not very wealthy, his Congressional pension would allow him to live fairly comfortably without seeking employment. Marco polo (talk) 19:02, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

He is receiving donations for the 2018 Senate primaries. -- Jreferee (talk) 12:25, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Best one-one hand-grip to lift a falling person.

Imagine someone's about to fall to his death. You and he can only hold on to each other with one hand to the other's arm/hand. What is the strongest grip by which to do so? Hands around each other's wrists? Fingers hooked into fingers? Something else? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 21:50, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Hands round wrists, then, once that breaks, fingers into fingers. Or get a constrictor to help. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:10, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

This is assuming they are naked. One can get a better grip on an item of clothing. Jackie Chan is an exception. He could, if he wanted to, hold a 20st man on the nail of his little pinky – but that is cinematographic license. Likewise, a full screen close up of a hand-to-hand gripe... slowly slipping... as the heroin is about to fall to her untimely death (before the film is even half over) helps to increase (yawn) the suspense. --Aspro (talk) 22:54, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Unless the victim bought their jacket in Hollywood, where the sleeve always seems to rip off allowing the owner to fall to their doom. Seriously, wrist-gripping-wrist is stronger, because you then have two people holding on if the victim is concious; if not, you've still got something that you can get your whole fist around. It's the recommended grip on any of the rescue courses that I've been on - BCU Canoe Safety, BCU Whitewater Safety and many moons ago, RLSS Bronze Medallion. I found this picture of a rescue from ice using the wrist grip, and this instructional diagram. Alansplodge (talk) 00:41, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Hand-to-arm/hand, not to clothing, is the scenario. To clothing might be best, but there's no way to give a "definitive" answer in such a case. TRM's suggestion seems intuitive, but I suspect the double hands on wrists grip might be weaker than it looks given the angle that puts the grips at. I was wondering if maybe only the stronger partner grasping the weaker around the wrist with a much tighter grip and better angle might work. I was hoping there might actually be some reference to cite on this. μηδείς (talk) 00:48, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

This is fine in theory, because the first thing a victim does is stretches forth their hand. But say... you come across a car crash and the automobile is on fire and the occupant(s) has a clavicle fracture. Are they going to stretch out their arm? There may be only seconds... for you to get them out PDQ. If they have a clavicle fracture, then pulling on their wrist can rip the blood vessels. Now you (or rather they) have a problem, that whilst you have saved them from an inferno, they now have internal haemorrhage and plummeting blood pressure. Fine, if you live in a big city were the ambulance can arrive in a few minutes and the para-medics can stabilize the condition you brought about. Questions to ask is :How did this John Doe get into a situation that lead him into the situation where he is about to fall to his death? Was he drunk, or due to an earthquake, terrorist bomb? If is is injured, then an upward force on the upper limbs can inhibit breathing (like the way crucifixion suffocates). If he is a victim of fire, then his skin can slip off like a glove. When there is only seconds to spare, is the girl guide approach, the approach that you would like your rescuers to adopt? --Aspro (talk) 02:19, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

What in the world are you talking about? Your link to Girl Guide would be helpful if it answered the effing question. I have defined the circumstance--one person trying to keep another from falling, with one hand/arm holding on to to one hand/arm. Earthquake is irrelevant, and drunkenness may figure in your answer but it has nothing to do with the question. μηδείς (talk) 02:30, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

I found TV Tropes - Take My Hand, which discusses the use of Medeis's scenario in films and television. Both the images that I linked above were from instructional websites, so could be taken as references, although they both refer to people who have fallen through ice. I couldn't find any organisation that provides training for holding people who are falling off buildings or cliffs. I did once fall off a cliff myself in a whiteout in the Scottish Highlands, and can't imagine how it would have been possible to hold on to anybody or anything on the way over (fortunately, it was onto angled snow ice and I was able to apply an ice axe arrest). One often sees in films, the hero grabbing hold of a branch or the cornice of a building on the way down - I would imagine that once your body starts falling, your own mass weight is magnified many times by the momentum and that fingers aren't going to slow you down, let alone stop you. I wonder if there has ever been a real example of a "cliff-hanger"? Alansplodge (talk) 10:49, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps if they are on a slope, and start to slide down it, somebody else might grab hold of them as they slowly slide by. But I agree that a fall off the classic cliff isn't likely to be arrested. StuRat (talk) 21:22, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

I didn't ask what would happen if you grabbed somone falling past you. The question is, what is the best grip to use to prevent him falling straight down to his death. No clothes or acceleration or slope or ice is assumed in the question--solely, what is the strongest grip to hold him up. μηδείς (talk) 22:11, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

My point is that any scenario where somebody has got into a position where they are suspended by their hands or fingers above a big drop seems infinitely improbable, given the laws of physics. Probably for that reason, I can't find you a reference, but it's not through lack of trying. However, if such a thing were to ever happen, which I seriously doubt, my answer stands. I have a little more knowledge and training than the average man on the Clapham omnibus (the English equivalent of "John Doe"). Alansplodge (talk) 23:23, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

I'll still hold out hope there's an answer. I think the double-wrist grip probably fails due to the weakest-link principle and the fact that the oblique angles weaken the grip. It seems odd we have an article on that poorly-named game-show, but none on the physical principle. μηδείς (talk) 03:08, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Okay, the internet is your oyster. A very merry Christmas to you and yours. Alansplodge (talk) 10:50, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

I'd hold the person around the wrist with my hand if I weren't able to grab their clothes. I'd have a good chance of lifting them up with one hand that way. Both trying to hold each other around the wrist wouldn't give a good grip and wouldn't work properly for lifting. Dmcq (talk) 15:15, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

This is a clear example of medical advice.

Answering the OP´s query re person X preventing person Y from falling is clearly requiring:

a) making a diagnosis: Person Y is subject to gravitational forces

b) providing a prognosis: falling n metres may be lethal

c) proposing a therapy: palliative treatment of gravitational attraction

d) risking bodily harm (and possible death) for X and Y by providing a false answer

--Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:06, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Snicker. μηδείς (talk) 00:20, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

In my youth I did a little bit of judo an aikido. I can testify, that a naked opponent can be very slippery (I think is was based on coconut oil). It made you depend on your legs more, to create a fall. Second. Lateral displacement of an earthquake can be so severe, as to throw on off one's feet (and perhaps.... over the edge) – by that time you get to them... dangling-off-the-edge, they might be mighty sweaty -and slippery. One can wrap one's hands around clothing and get a far better grip! It is the difference between theory and practice. But hey: As Alansplodge points out, what are the chances, that you come across a person in this situation, where the victim bought their jacket in Hollywood and has sprayed himself in antiperspirant? If you can get a good wrist grip fine... but if you can't - what then? Unlike in the movies, when a crisis happens, there is no director to slow the action down to afford the cinematographer to capture a few dozen frames, of the heroin and hero locking hands (and in close up). When thing go wrong and badly wrong. I can assure you, there is no time to consult Misplaced Pages! --Aspro (talk) 23:29, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Or a drunkard, for that matter. μηδείς (talk) 01:34, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

December 23

Earliest places in the world to prohibit photography

Is it known what were among the earliest (as in, chronologically first) places in the world to have a policy of prohibiting recording devices (notably cameras and the like)? If so or if not, what were the reasons behind implementing such a policy? Narutolovehinata5 00:20, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Are you aware of any country currently that prohibits photography? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:32, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Not countries, but certainly regions. RNealK (talk) 03:53, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

This link here: doesn't answer the question as to which place was the first to legally prohibit photography, but it does list some rationales why a place would. It basically boils down to two reasons 1) Security, which is to say that places where photographs could be used to study and breach secure locations (military installations, for example) and 2) copyright (museums and theaters hold a monopoly on display of the works they display, and prevent photography to maintain that monopoly). There are also some places of worship that, for theological or dogmatic reasons, ask that you not photograph while inside. --Jayron32 04:01, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

4) (Counting religious reasons as #3): Flash photography is often restricted because of it's tendency to damage eyesight and cause annoyance. Of course, this is most often done at the venue, but I suppose there might be a law somewhere stating that flash photography is only allowed with permission of those in range.

5) Personal privacy reasons. This includes prohibiting upskirt pics and celebrity stalking. StuRat (talk) 09:41, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)There are countries that restrict photography, certainly. we have a (mostly anglocentric) article Photography and the law, but this does not really go into the history of such laws. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:04, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Why is everyone caught up on the country thing? The OP never mentioned countries! Dismas| 04:57, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

The Norwegian Lov om forsvarshemmeligheter (Law regarding military secrets) from 18th August 1914 states in §3 that's it illegal without prior permission to "create, multiply or publish maps, map sketches, sketches, photographs or descriptions" of military installations or military sensitive areas. Not sure if that is the first though. WegianWarrior (talk) 08:32, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Restricting in particular locations is not the same thing as a blanket prohibition. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 10:46, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

OP never said anything about countries or blanket prohibitions. OP said "places" and "policy". And undtil quite recently, most military installations in Norway had a blanked ban on the use of cameras - you had to apply for permission just to keep one in your quarters. WegianWarrior (talk) 11:55, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

If you're talking specific locations, such as military installations, then half of the OP's question has already been answered, and the reason is pretty obvious anyway. As to which specific ones were first, that could be a challenge to research. Has the OP done any research on it? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 12:48, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

My guess would be various Islamic places, where prohibitions on images that long pre-dated the invention of the camera were simply interpreted as also applying to cameras. --Carnildo (talk) 03:47, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

I have heard (annecdotally) that some non-industrialized cultures feel (or used to feel) that photographs "capture souls", and so banned and/or destroyed any cameras in their territory. Can anyone support this with reliable sources? F6697_TALK 11:17, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

That's a story that's been around for a long time. It was gently lampooned in Crocodile Dundee when the American woman goes to take a picture of an aboriginal Australian man. He says, "You can't take my picture." Then she says, kind of condescendingly, "Oh, because it will take part of your soul, right?" And he says, "No, it's because you've got the lens cap on." ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:33, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

There are a bunch of them here. Not sure which are the earliest though. Some restrictions may apply (talk) 15:10, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

OrBat generation software

Can you possibly direct me to the software that generates the military unit Tables of Organization and Equipment or Orders of battle (OrBats) that seem to be universal in wikipedia to diagram military unites, and are made by user/editors like "noclador"? 75.145.84.237 (talk) 16:04, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

You're much likelier to get a good quick answer to this at the computer desk, rather than the miscellaneous desk. μηδείς (talk) 04:07, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Actually, someone at Misplaced Pages:Wikiproject Military History should be able to help out. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:31, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

December 25

Christmas Wishes

Last chance to get your mince pies and sherry ready.--Aspro (talk) 00:12, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Please post your Christmas wishes in the form of a question. :) Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:32, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

OK Newyorkbra. Let me rephrase it: Dear reference desk. On the approach to this Yuletide, what do I have to do, to persuade father Christmas to ignore the fact the I don’t have any chimney in my house to squeezes himself down,.. but if my stocking is not filled, then I may stop believing in him. I know the scientists have trouble explain qubits, just as they could not explain continental drift -once upon a time. Yet, this guy seems to be able to be able to achieve super-duper superposition and so by, descend every chimney at once. So. Mince pies and sherry at the ready!--Aspro (talk) 01:11, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Cheers! Can Krampus swim? InedibleHulk (talk) 00:41, December 25, 2013 (UTC)

Not when the pond is frozen. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:55, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

This is creepy now. My little cousin asked me my question a few days, after a bunch of snow and creosote fell down the chimney and onto our fire (we neglect it as often as we do Santa). She was particularly worried about him drifting to this continent "across the pond". Good answers! InedibleHulk (talk) 01:20, December 25, 2013 (UTC)

• Hristos raždaetsja! μηδείς (talk) 04:16, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Higher Resolution

Why am I unable to see the higher resolutions of photographs. Often when I click on the linked photograph I am taken to a smaller file. I was able in the past to view the larger file. Its disapointing I am no longer able to see a higher resolution photograph of Michelangelo's Pieta sculpture for example. Pieta 70.181.197.25 (talk) 03:16, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Try hovering your cursor over the image. If it changes (for example, to a magnifying glass with + sign icon) click the image. It should be full size. —Nelson Ricardo (talk) 05:07, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

And sometimes there's a list of available resolutions below, and you can pick on one of those. (If it doesn't fit on the screen, it may still give you a preview that fits, then you have to click on that to get the full sized image with scroll bars.) StuRat (talk) 14:37, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

UK terminology: "registered alcoholic" ?

In the article Jack Wild he is refered to as having been a "registered alcoholic". Can anyone explain what this term mean to a Yank like myself? A citation or dictionary entry would be extra appreciated. F6697_TALK 11:28, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

It's a well-worn phrase in the UK, but a quick Google didn't reveal any official status for it. Alcoholics (and other drug and substance addicts) have access to a range of benefits and services in the UK, which I imagine would need a medical practitioner's certification that you do indeed have a problem. Getting this done might be what is known as "registration" although I don't believe that there is any national register. Sorry that I couldn't be more definite - maybe another editor can do better. Alansplodge (talk) 12:20, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Having spent a good part of my life in the NHS as a nurse I am not aware of any type of register for alcoholics or any form or certificate that was given by a medical practitioner to indicate a person was a "registered alcoholic". I think this is a dramatic journalistic artifice that is similar to a person being on "the danger list" or taken off "the danger list". In the UK there never was a "danger list" kept in any hospital that I ever knew. Of course the USA may have a different arrangement. Richard Avery (talk) 08:26, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

It could be a joke of some kind. Americans talk of someone being "certifiably insane", or "certifiable" for short - even in reference to themselves sometimes, whether "officially" declared mentally ill or not. Also, thanks to the days of the Red Scare, where the expression "card-carrying communist" turned up (and likely a reference to something early, such as a card-carrying member of a union), anyone who's heavily into something might say that they are a "card-carrying" member of that something's real or imagined "fan club". We might use "registered" that way too, though I haven't heard it too often - maybe because the term "registered sex offender" is a real thing and is not a joke. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 11:56, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

In the UK in the 19th century, certificates of insanity were indeed issued, and here's a law mentioning them. It's quite hard to research this thanks to a Mr Alice Cooper, but I shall have a go at seeing what else I can find. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:17, 26 December 2013 (UTC) It seems to go back to the 1774 Act, according to this site. As to "registered alcoholic", again I have been unable to get a reliable source for this, but at least I've managed to find stuff about certified lunatics! --TammyMoet (talk) 19:23, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

"Certificates of insanity" are completed in the UK today as part of the operation of the Mental Health Act 1983 where two doctors are required to explain why the afflicted person should be detained in a safe place. Richard Avery (talk) 08:20, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

I've put the article out of its misery and removed the word "registered". -- Jack of Oz 08:37, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

The Soviet Union appears to have used the term 'registered alcoholics' in the sense of "the nation has more than 4.5 million registered alcoholics who receive medical treatment." Sweden used the term registered alcoholic. Registered alcoholics may be a term used by Alcoholics Anonymous. However, it generally seems to be used as a dramatic journalistic artifice as Richard noted above. I liked Jimmy on H.R. Pufnstuf. I didn't know about his troubles until now and wished his life turned out better. -- Jreferee (talk) 12:04, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

(EC) I looked in to this a few days ago but didn't post because I didn't find anything that great but I might as well mention this. I don't think it remains totally a journalistic invention that no one uses any more (regardless of how it started), as e.g. some people appear to have called themselves that in trials , and by solicitors describing their clients or people the are prosecuting , , , and by judges describing people as well as in local government reports , , , . Also plenty of cases of people describing their spouses/parents/neighbours and other random stuff like .

However I'm not disagreeing the term doesn't actually seem to mean anything in the UK. The term seems to often be used in concert with the claim that "registered alcoholics" receive more benefits so I wonder if this may be partially how it arose.

Incidentally, this claim is also unsurprisingly largely bullshit. It does appear a small number of people with alcohol dependency/abuse problems as their primary condition do receive additional support. But it's a lot rarer than people suggest and the figures seem to include both alcohol and other drugs anyway , . And not surprisingly from what I can tell e.g. , , (I obtained a copy of this but it appears to be a copyvio so I'm obviously not linking to it), , you do need other conditions/problems caused by the alcohol dependency.

And it is fairly contentious with a fair degree of inconsistency and unclarity, about precisely what you can receive when and what evidence or effect there needs to be for that to apply. And support here doesn't of course necessarily mean direct financial support but other forms of support which obviously have a financial cost but the money isn't going to the person needing the support. In fact it's possible that people with such problems may receive less direct financial support with e.g. rent instead being paid direct to the property owner/manager (although not a great source). I saw one source suggesting it used to be the case many years ago that "registered alcoholics" would automatically receive more support but I strongly doubt this claim too.

I assume then that in so much as the term "registered alcoholic" means anything, it generally refers to those who have had their alcholism assessed and accepted as contributing to their disability either as a primary or secondary condition (although I'm not totally sure if it's always made clear whether their alcoholism was accepted). Perhaps it could also include those who have their alcoholism on record with the NHS or the GP, although I'm less sure of this. There definitely does not appear to be any central register of alcoholics. And all the aforementioned would I assume be covered by privacy legislation meaning unless the person tells people about it or shows documents relating to it, there's no way anyone except for the select few involved who aren't allowed to spread it, can know. (I would assume this would apply to most court cases as well.)

Despite its prevalance in some sources, it doesn't seem to get much discussion although a small number of sources did mention that the idea is basically meaningless , although the later source does mention an addicts (not sure if it included alcoholics) register may have existed in the 1950s. Funnily enough this source which despite the nonRS nature of the site hosting is apparently from a FOI request of the contract between Department for Work and Pensions and Atos (specifically that mentioned inWork Capability Assessment I presume) mentions "Registered Alcoholic" as a condition requiring medicial examination. And the quotes are not mine suggesting even they're aware of the term but recognise it doesn't mean anything. You can see to confirm it isn't an OCR artifact. (They also mention alcohol dependence.)

Nil Einne (talk) 19:01, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Jack of Oz: Thanks for the mercy deletion at Jack Wild. :)

Everyone: Much appreciate all the info. Interesting tangential discussions too. What is "the danger list" exactly? Sounds a bit like "the critical list" which also does not actually exist at hospitals. I think it is a triage term used in large scale emergencies where there are lists of the injured (minor, major, critical) and the dead (not yet, mostly, really really).

And just to close the loop, "registered alcoholic" is definitely not an AA term, it would go against the "self-responsibility" core of the program. Putting a person on some sort of mythical oversight list would allow the psychological crutch of letting someone else be accountable for your actions. However, perhaps someone in the AA org might have insight into this apparent slang terminology. I'll send AA an email and ask. F6697_TALK 17:10, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

December 27

What is this toy called?

What is the name of those stick noise maker toys where you turn them upside down and there's something inside that slides down and makes a noise similar to someone being sick or moaning? You sometimes seem them in pens nowadays and if you move them back and forth fast enough they make a higher pitched warbling noise. When I was a kid in the UK we would refer to them as sick sticks but I've been unable to find an official name for this toy and searching for something you can't easily describe is difficult. Anyone have a clue what they're called? 63.95.64.254 (talk) 19:33, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Is it something like a rain stick? Looie496 (talk) 19:52, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Similar idea but instead of lots of little pieces moving downward it is basically an empty tube with one mechanism inside that air moves through to make the noise (I'm assuming - the ends of the tube always have little spaces). Think more like those cow noise makers you give to kids that you turn over and they moo. 63.95.64.254 (talk) 20:08, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

That specific type is Cow in a Can. I think the generic name is just "noise maker". InedibleHulk (talk) 21:39, December 27, 2013 (UTC)

Here it is opened up, showing how the sound works. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:44, December 27, 2013 (UTC)

December 28

Nagpur (India) tall buildings

I want to request you to include Nagpur (India) in the list of tall building. As other cities of India are already included in this category. There are cities smaller than Nagpur in this list. So, why not Nagpur? There are number of high rise buildings under construction in the city and its outskirts. This will provide information to those people who want to live in high rises in Nagpur. Trushu (talk) 05:52, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Better then suggesting it, you should do it yourself. The only qualification to fix a Misplaced Pages article and make it better is to want to see it done. Since you have expressed that you want to see it done, you are quite literally the most qualified person in the world. No one else could do a better job of it than you, right now, because you want to, and obviously no one has yet wanted to do it, lest it would have already been done. Which it isn't. So you should get on that. --Jayron32 06:14, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, according to The Times of India in a report called Nagpur Municipal Corporation imposes new charge for tall building's on May 10, 2012, "At present, highest building in the city is only 42 metres. However, construction of taller buildings has started. An under construction building at Godrej's Anandam township is tallest at 64 metres." If you go to our List of tallest buildings in India, you'll see that there are 106 buildings that currently stand at 115 metres or higher, the tallest is currently The Imperial (Mumbai), Tower One being 254 metres high. Under construction, also in Mumbai, is the World One building, which is planned to be 442 metres. This is some way behind Burj Khalifa in Dubai, which stands at 828 metres. The World One will be in the joint number ten slot in the world's tallest building rankings, unless something taller is finished first - the Kingdom Tower in Saudi Arabis is planned to be 1,000 metres high. But don't be disheartened, England dropped out of the List of tallest structures in the world in 1549 when the 160 metre spire of Lincoln Cathedral fell down. Alansplodge (talk) 20:25, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

December 29

Biggest animal that ever lived

You say Balaenoptera Musculus is the biggest animal that ever lived,what about Argentinosaurus? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.12.221.208 (talk) 01:22, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

The sauropods are long, but mostly skinny neck and tail. See this. μηδείς (talk) 01:43, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

And if you are interested in why, a land animal as large as a blue whale just couldn't support it's own weight at 1 g. Bones can only take so much weight. In water, the whale's weight is supported by the water. StuRat (talk) 08:07, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Khichuri part of Pakistani and Indian cuisine?

When did Khichuri or Khichdi become a part of Pakistani and Indian cuisine? I thought it was a Bengali dish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.54.64.20 (talk) 02:13, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Not so long ago, part of Bengal became East Pakistan which became Bangladesh. The rest of it became subsumed into India. --TammyMoet (talk) 14:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Why are human rights more practiced in wealthy western countries than underdeveloped ones?

Venustar84 (talk) 02:58, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

I can think of several reasons:

1) Those rights are often obtained by protests, such as strikes and marches. In a poor nation, where people will starve if they leave their jobs to do such things, you don't get as many mass actions.

2) Poverty also frequently means a lack of education and knowledge of the rest of the world, so they may not realize it's better in other places and can be better there.

3) The oppressive government will find it easier to hire henchmen to keep the people oppressed, if the people are poor and willing to work for peanuts (perhaps literally).

4) In poor nations you often get civil wars, with people fighting over the meager resources the nation has, and civil wars can bring human rights violations on both sides.

5) Even if a nation has sound laws, it often takes expensive lawyers to get them to follow those laws. So, poor people are sometimes denied equal protection under the law. (When free lawyers are provided to the poor, they may be incompetent or unmotivated.) StuRat (talk) 08:13, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

See also Maslow's hierarchy of needs (including the critique thereof). --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 11:44, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

History is also a significant factor. The Enlightenment happened in what we now call the "western world". The process of "exporting" the concepts of human rights from the western world to other places is not yet complete. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:31, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

You are implying a reversal of cause and effect. It's those nations that respect individual life, liberty and happiness that achieve the common good. μηδείς (talk) 15:43, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Plug Adaptor from UK plug to Vietnam

What type of plug adaptor would I need for Vietnam? Is it the standard two-pin (round) European type? Or would I need the two-pin (flat version) used in Spain and Japan? Or both, as I did in Korea? KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 05:43, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Without more info about where you'll be, it's hard to say. See Mains electricity by country. Dismas| 06:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Hanoi is my destination. Basically I should take both A and C versions, it seems. Thanks. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 06:27, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Can Full-Grain Leather not have pores?

I recently received a Saddleback Leather item, a company known for producing items with full-grain leather. However, an inspection with the naked eye and under a loupe reveals a lack of hair pores on the leather surface. However, the leather does feel very high-end. Is it possible to have high-quality full-grain leather that does not have hair pores? Many online guides suggest that full-grain leather MUST have visible hair pores. Acceptable (talk) 08:19, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Eggnog

In the UK, Eggnog is neither a popular Christmas drink nor is it readily available in shops. According to our article it is a UK invention that spread to the colonies and is now pretty ubiquitous in North America. Is eggnog's decline in the UK related to the dairy rationing of World War II? 13:08, 29 December 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.145.143.8 (talk)

Well, I can remember back to the early 1960s, and I can never remember any mention of eggnog in a UK context, though Warnink's Advocaat used to be advertised a lot on tv - I was never tempted to try it. -- Arwel Parry (talk) 14:21, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I couldn't see anything specific, but it seems to have fallen out of favour over here long before that. The The Oxford Encyclopedia of Food and Drink in America (p. 671) has it as "a tradition of Christmas and New Year's celebrations throughout the United States" although it "reflect the English heritage in America". Most of the references on Google to eggnog, egg-nog or egg nog in England seem to refer back to the 1800s. Tastes in drinks change regularly, in the 19th century Englishmen in pubs mainly drank porter. I recently found a 1960s London newspaper advertisement for Christmas drinks; heading the list were numerous brands of sherry, Babycham and that noxious canned beer called Double Diamond and its equally unpleasant rival, Long Life ("specially brewed for the can"). Also in the list was Bol's Advocaat, which our article notes "is similar to eggnog". Alansplodge (talk) 14:27, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Hard to tell how any of those things could be more noxious than eggnog itself. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 14:43, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

• Even if it were "available" in Britain, you'd be advised to avoid the disgusting gum and preservative-ridden commercial concoctions, and just whip an egg in a glass of chilled milk and add a little rum or creme de menthe for sweetness. I assume rum, creme de methe, milk and eggs are available across the pond. μηδείς (talk) 16:48, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Correct assumption. We even have electricity. Pointless. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:06, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Highest recorded temperature

The weather channel shows april 2006 Coos Bay Oregon high as 180 degrees?? Is this possible and true youwiln — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.234.202.153 (talk) 17:56, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

I suspect it is not true. That's an incredibly high temperature, far higher than the record listed here: Highest temperatures ever recorded. I suspect the digits were transposed, and it should be 108, not 180. Is it possible? Probably not under natural circumstances, but I'll leave that to more expert opinion. Mingmingla (talk) 19:04, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

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