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U.S. Roads Project‑class

This page is within the scope of the U.S. Roads WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to state highways and other major roads in the United States. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.U.S. RoadsWikipedia:WikiProject U.S. RoadsTemplate:WikiProject U.S. RoadsU.S. road transport Project This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.

Centralized discussion for WikiProject U.S. Roads Shortcut WT:USRD If you would like to discuss the standards for route junction lists, please use WT:RJL, If you would like to request a map, please use WP:USRD/MTF/R, If you would like to request a route marker (shield), please use WP:USRD/S/R, For all other comments or concerns, please post below. Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 IH: 1, 2, 3, 4; US: 1, 2, 3; USAT: 1; USRD/STDS: 1; USRD/A: 1; USRD/NT: 1 States: AL: 1; CA: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6; CT: 1; FL: 1, 2; GA: 1; IL: 1, 2; IN: 1; IA: 1; KS: 1, 2, 3; KY: 1; LA: 1; MD: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; MA: 1; MI: 1, 2; MN: 1, 2; MO: 1; NV: 1; NJ: 1, 2; NY: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; NC: 1; OH: 1; OK: 1 OR: 1 PA: 1, 2; RI: 1; SC: 1; TN: 1; TX: 1, 2; UT: 1; VT: 1; VA: 1; WA: 1, 2; WV: 1; WI: 1

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Redoing the main USRD page

We talked about this at the beginning of the year, and then it died. What is the status on this? --Rschen7754 09:27, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

The page needs to be greatly simplified. There is way too much stuff on the main page. It should serve as more of a portal to the various departments and subpages. Fewer giant lists of links. —Scott5114↗ 10:38, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

User:Fredddie/USRD and User:Imzadi1979/USRD were the two sandboxes I knew about. –Fredddie™ 15:33, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

I like Imzadi1979's version a little bit better. It looks like we are close enough to debut the new main page soon. Can we do this for the new year?  VC  15:47, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

I prefer Freddie's. I think it's organized more efficiently (and I like the color on the page). --hmich176 11:32, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I also prefer Fredddie's for the same reasons as hmich176. I would like to add a suggestion, however. Regarding the featured content map, instead of just one wikilink to the most recent FA, could we have an expandable list of maybe the three or four most recent articles promoted to each category? I think new editors or those browsing the project page would get a better idea of the best the project has to offer. Britinvasion64 (talk) 15:50, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I seem to favor Fredddie's, but would like to note that the circular link in the Embassy section should probably be removed. TCN7JM 17:47, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

The idea behind that was that it's supposed to be like a cross-wiki navbox. So the enwp USRD link would be bold. –Fredddie™ 18:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I guess that works for me. TCN7JM 18:29, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Moving forward

How should we move forward from here? What's in my sandbox is definitely not the final version, so I'd like to get a list of what we absolutely want and need on the project homepage. What can we move to other pages or remove unnecessary duplication thereof? –Fredddie™ 23:26, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

To start, what is in Imzadi1979's version that is not in Fredddie's version but that we need?  VC  00:44, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

The goals are missing and would be helpful. --Rschen7754 23:41, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Actually, the 2013 goals are in there, but they're not as obvious as they are currently. –Fredddie™ 23:48, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

I went ahead and transcluded the CURRENTYEAR goals, so that's automatic now. What does everyone think of having a paragraph summary of important stuff in WP:USRD/NEW just below the navigation template? I was thinking of using same bright green color found on Commons' Main Page, maybe even the MUTCD fluorescent green color, to set it apart from the rest. –Fredddie™ 00:21, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

I actually liked the map & featured content box that was there--maybe expanding slightly to include a link to the recognized content page. The related U.S. projects box that's there now (as of this writing) just doesn't seem to fit well on a short page that's supposed to show off our project--if we need it, maybe collapse it? -- LJ ↗ 21:56, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

There should be a box containing links to the departments of USRD. Philroc (talk) 21:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

There are department links on the right side of the page (How is our project organized?) and in the Navigation box. –Fredddie™ 22:00, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Bump. --Rschen7754 07:59, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

USRD Cup 2014

Is there interest from others in the project for a 2014 USRD Cup? I really like the idea of the Cup, and would be willing to act as judge this coming year if nobody else wants to. If there is interest, what time of year would be most convenient for it to take place? Regards, TCN7JM 03:28, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm for participating, not running it. --AdmrBoltz 03:29, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I personally would be for spring or summer. --Rschen7754 03:31, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I would be willing to judge the cup this year. We can possibly start in February or March in order to allow for people to sign up. Dough4872 03:43, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Come to think of it maybe May or June would be better since people will be out of school for the summer. Dough4872 03:51, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Here is an idea for the cup if I do run it: We can start on April 1 and have three rounds that would end the contest in the end of June. This way it would not drag too late into the summer to conflict with vacations. The contest will be somewhat similar to how Fredddie ran it in 2013. Dough4872 04:04, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I think the USRD Cup should be an occasional thing and not an annual thing. That being said, I will not be participating in a 2014 Cup in any capacity, so don't let my dissent dissuade the final decision. –Fredddie™ 04:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

If there is a Cup this next year, I might consider entering, depending on the rules/point structure and my personal situation. One, Georgia is almost de-stubbed, so the only thing that could be good for me is the Start-to-C expansions. Also, I don't know what will happen in my personal life (wife and I have had problems for years and I think it just my hit the breaking point, finally. So, I don't know how much time I might have. Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 05:39, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Maybe a possibility to open up the cup to more countries and editors is instead to do a HWY Cup to encourage global participation. Dough4872 04:13, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

That's not a bad idea, but USRD articles should be specifically excluded. I think it would be a better contest if USRD editors were completely out of their comfort zones. –Fredddie™ 06:16, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't that kind of be unfair considering the rest of the editors would be in theirs? TCN7JM 06:17, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

I would personally not participate if USRD articles were excluded. Maybe I'm callous, but I don't really care what shape other countries' articles are in, especially when there is so much to do in the US. —Scott5114↗ 11:27, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

If we do a HWY Cup, all editors, regardless of country, should have the freedom to get points for editing any HWY, USRD, CRWP, HKRD, AURD, etc. article. That way we are not depriving editors from editing in their home country which they are most familiar with and have the sources readily available. Dough4872 16:33, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

This is kind of the response I was expecting. I would have to see who signs up. If Floydian, Evad, and Tomobe all sign up it might be a great competition. But if it's six USRDers and a couple newbies in Europe, then it might as well be the USRD Cup. –Fredddie™ 17:30, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

It was at my suggestion that we open it up. I would be interested in delving in this year. - Floydian  _¢ 18:11, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

I would be interested in participating in a HWY cup. I don't think USRD articles should be excluded, but maybe points could be weighted by project/task force wikiwork at the start of the cup, or some factor times wikiwork, so that, for example, getting an African Highways task force article to GA is worth more than a USRD GA. - Evad37  01:46, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree, the HWY Cup should have multipliers that favor improvement of articles in regions that do not get that much attention and have bad articles. Dough4872 02:51, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

A word of advice from last year, multipliers work to that effect, but only to a degree. During competitions like this, people get creative as to how to score as many points as possible without doing a lot of work. For instance, if there are KML and map multipliers, you should only be able to earn them if you make them both. Then you wouldn't have people making KMLs for big points only to have map makers take the KML and make maps for bigger points. I won't name names, but Scott was good at that last year. Oh wait. –Fredddie™ 05:18, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Hey, I just looked at the rules and figured out the fastest way I could legally score the most points. :P —Scott5114↗ 05:29, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

To avoid these problems, media (such as maps, shields, and KML) should not be eligible for multipliers. Multipliers should primarily focus on class improvement, GAN, ACR, FAC, etc. Dough4872 04:17, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Highways/Assessment/A-Class Review/Ridge Route

This ACR needs a few votes either way to be closed - could some people take a look? A full review is not necessary required for the removal discussions. --Rschen7754 20:33, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Bump - we still need 1 more. --Rschen7754 04:45, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Overriding parameters in infobox road

Is there a way to override the auto-population of the maintenance parameter? Case in point, U.S. Route 66 in California, the infobox is falsely claiming the road is maintained by Caltrans, despite the fact that this is a historical highway, and pictures showing parts with county maintenance and/or completely abandoned. Is there a way to override the auto population (I played with a few things and they didn't work), or better yet, should we just turn off the auto-population for historical routes, as few are likely to still be maintained by the state DOT? Dave (talk) 02:41, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Either |maint=none to shut it off, or supply a different value than the default through |maint=. Imzadi 1979 → 02:53, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I swear I tried that.... Sigh. Dave (talk) 07:17, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to change MTF colors

I would like to propose some changes to the colors we use to make maps going forward. These are mostly subtle changes that would align our color palate with the ones at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Maps/Conventions. I have added a couple colors that had not been addressed previously, but I think would be useful. I want to reiterate that I do not seek to have all maps remade with these colors (at least right now), but just would like to adjust the color palate for maps made in the future.

Now, the Map conventions page has a methodology for roads which mainly involves red lines. I do not think we should use that method since we typically use red lines to show highlighted routes. However, you can see in the example maps the orange lines for US Highways may get lost for some readers. However, that's another discussion.

Comparison of styles

Current style	Proposed style
Background shading Map Scale Type Fill HTML Color RGB Color Color Continental / Regional Land Solid #F7F7ED 247, 247, 237   Water Solid #FFFFFF 255, 255, 255   Local Rural Solid #F7F7ED 247, 247, 237   Urban area Solid #FFFFD0 255, 255, 208   Water Solid #BEE8FF 190, 232, 255   Borders Importance Type Stroke HTML Color RGB Color Color Mandatory State (local) 1.5x solid #9C9C9C 156, 156, 156   State (regional) 1x solid #9C9C9C 156, 156, 156   Optional County 0.5x dotted #828282 130, 130, 130	Background shading Map Scale Type Fill HTML Color RGB Color Color United States Land Solid #F6E1B9 246, 225, 185   Subject state(s) Land Solid #FEFEE9 254, 254, 233   Other countries Land Solid #E0E0E0 224, 224, 224   Urban areas Land Solid #F1C872 241, 200, 114   Parks and forests Land Solid #A0F090 160, 240, 144   Oceans and lakes Water Solid #C6ECFF 198, 236, 255   Borders Importance Type Stroke HTML Color RGB Color Color Mandatory State (local) 1.5x solid #646464 100, 100, 100     State (regional) 1x solid #646464 100, 100, 100     Optional County 0.5x dashed #646464 100, 100, 100     Water 1x solid #0978AB 9, 120, 171

Discussion

So what do you think? –Fredddie™ 03:37, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

• I am all for matching standards, but we have a lot of maps that will need to be updated. --AdmrBoltz 03:41, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
  • +1 I echo Admrboltz, but since this would be for new maps going forward, it would't be a big deal. Also, going forward, we really should prefer SVG over PNG, where possible. Imzadi 1979 → 03:47, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
    • I think it would be too disruptive to be changing the map legends at this point. We have several years' worth of work invested in the current maps, and if we start making new maps with an altered legend, then we would have a small number of maps with the new legend versus several thousand with the old. We would also have to find a way to reconcile the problems with the proposed orange for the out-of-state fill and urban areas conflicting with our orange road lines. I oppose these parts of the proposal. However, I see no problem with adding to our legends the parts of the proposal that cover things our standards do not currently address, like the green fill for parkland. —Scott5114↗ 07:46, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
      • With svgs, it shouldn't be too hard to go through and modify the svg maps with a batch file to convert instances of #XXXXXX to #YYYYYY. - Floydian  _¢ 08:00, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
        • Most of our maps are PNGs though (QGIS's SVG output sucks, unless they've fixed it recently). —Scott5114↗ 08:31, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
          • It's what I've used to create the maps for ON 55 and ON 61, but I have no comparison. - Floydian  _¢ 08:35, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
            • I used it for ON 71's last night. –Fredddie™ 13:01, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
• Meh. I'm concerned that even if the old maps are not "required" to be changed, soon it will be "recommended" at ACR. --Rschen7754 17:20, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
  • The original maps for Michigan were all made before the current MTF standard was developed, and not once has anyone every asked for them to be redone on that basis. If anything, the requests related to those maps have been to add insets, or Canada, not to change the color scheme. Imzadi 1979 → 19:28, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I am worried that our readers may be bombarded with too much information if a cartographer decides to use all of the proposed elements. Remember, we don't have the luxury of having a key on every map like in industry. It is almost 5 AM in I will weigh in on this point by point in the afternoon, but I am liking the direction that this is moving in. --Guerillero | My Talk 09:47, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Generally, I like the new color scheme, however, I have a few suggestions.

• I think that the darker color for the other states should be what's used for other countries and a different color should be used for the other states. That way the US Highways outside of the subject state would actually appear.
• I think that our standards should be amended so that non-Interstate freeways are not the same color as Interstates. A different line width would work, but otherwise we risk implying that non-Interstates are part of Interstate Highway System. We already differentiate by color based on US vs state. Maybe freeways could use a double line of some sort as many maps use?
• I would love it if we had some alternate colors for urban areas. Some of the colors (parks, etc) would be beneficial for zoomed-in maps of single urban areas, but it would be nice to colorize the different municipalities in these zoomed in maps.

Imzadi 1979 → 10:30, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, US and state highways are only distinguished by line width, not color. (And some cases, not even that.) When this was discussed initially, a non-interstate freeway color was proposed but rejected, because of the fact that non-Interstate freeways are often indistinguishable from Interstates, and in many urban areas function as key components of the metro freeway system. (Why isn't the Broadway Extension in Oklahoma City part of I-235?) These days the only difference in the two is that the state DOT bothered to have AASHTO approve an Interstate route there.

If we are to alter the freeway symbology, I would prefer a triple-thin-line-with-colored-fill setup like the current KDOT and ODOT state maps use, assuming QGIS supports such a thing. I would suggest the fill be blue for Interstates, green for toll roads, and orange for non-Interstate freeways. This would make all non-tolled non-Interstates the same color, with the difference between freeway and surface road being the line style. (Logically, we could continue this line of thought the other way, and make the Chickasaw Turnpike a single green line, signifying that it is a toll road but not a freeway.) —Scott5114↗ 11:53, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Another thought I had was to create topographic-style maps, but I was having trouble with pixelation, so I'll have to keep experimenting. –Fredddie™ 04:59, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Secondary proposal: City point symbology

Sometimes on our maps there's a need to represent locations to add extra context, yet due to the scale of the map, displaying them as a mere dot works best. I have a symbology for these cases that I've been using on Oklahoma maps and maps like File:Snohomish County, Wash.svg. It derives from the KDOT map legend.

Perhaps this symbology should be added to our standards (not that it would be required for use on all maps or anything, just those of the proper scale. —Scott5114↗ 11:53, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I think this is confusing without a legend. Contextually, the differently sized and stylized text are easier to understand than the symbols. This could be something where we default to a WP:WPMAPS convention instead of adding more to our own. –Fredddie™ 01:35, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

If we do have special symbols for communities, we need to make sure to include symbols for state and national capitals too. Dough4872 02:32, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Category capitalization

Should Category:State Roads in Alachua County, Florida etc. be lowercased as State roads? Or should they be State highways to match other states' categories? --NE2 07:14, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I would leave them at "state road" rather than moving them to "state highway" to match the nomenclature used. As for capitalization, they probably all should be in Sentence case, so "State roads in... " or "Former state roads in..." as appropriate. That may mean moving articles to match so that a WP:C2D request can be made. Imzadi 1979 → 14:56, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

So what about the larger categories such as Category:State highways in Florida (which match other states)? --NE2 21:02, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Isn't the category structure such that we use "Category:State highways in XX" no matter what the state's articles are actually named? (This is the case for CA, NV, UT, and others.) Seems like if that's the case, then any county sub-categories should follow that convention--although it doesn't look like too many states have county categories anyway... -- LJ ↗ 02:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Most states lack county categories because there isn't a need to split the state highways out of Category:Transportation in Marquette County, Michigan, etc. As for matching, an argument can be made under the category renaming policies to either match to the appropriate article on the topic (ergo "State Roads/roads in Florida" depending on how that article is capitalized) or to have the entire structure match. Imzadi 1979 → 03:13, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

US 19E redirect problem

U.S. Route 19E redirects to a section of U.S. Route 19 in North Carolina, but almost half of the route is in Tennessee. There doesn't seem to have ever been a separate article. --NE2 13:55, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I made those articles, US 19E is combined with US 19 in both states; go to U.S. Route 19 in Tennessee for the Tennessee section. --WashuOtaku (talk) 13:58, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Ignoring the question of why US 19E is combined but US 19W is not, surely you see the problem of someone looking up US 19E and getting redirected to North Carolina only? --NE2 15:36, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Someone related to this: If we do the right thing and create a proper US 19E article, do we really need to keep the US 19 in TN article? US 19 north of Bluff City is entirely concurrent with US 11E to Bristol, Virginia.  VC  17:13, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

To make a proper US 19E page, the US 19 in NC would need to be also rewritten. Seems easier to simply create a disambiguation page for US 19E and give the choice of either TN or NC. The way US 19 in TN and NC written now isn't really the issue, it was just how US 19E directs users to the NC page. --WashuOtaku (talk) 22:29, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Actually, the way US 19 in TN and US 19 in NC is written now is the issue. The organization treats US 19E like the mainline and US 19W like an auxiliary route. The two branches should be treated equally. If US 19W has its own article, then US 19E should have its own article. See U.S. Route 11E, U.S. Route 11W, U.S. Route 11 in Virginia, and U.S. Route 11 in Tennessee for how a similar situation is handled. Note that I am not implying that you are the person who has to make the changes; I just want all of us to be on the same page.  VC  00:09, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

I created the U.S. Route 19E article and updated the U.S. Route 19 in North Carolina and U.S. Route 19 in Tennessee articles to not treat US 19E as the mainline.  VC  23:09, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

{{convert/spell}} being depreciated...

...as it doesn't use Lua. See Help:Convert#Spell --AdmrBoltz 19:21, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Of course, after I just learned how to use it...Mitch32 20:48, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Of course. We can't make your life that simple, now can we? --AdmrBoltz 21:06, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not seeing any message saying that it's being deprecated... —Scott5114↗ 23:39, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, maybe not this second, but it is not in Lua. The {{convert}} template is. --AdmrBoltz 23:42, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

A template will work just fine if it's not in Lua; I don't think WMF is planning on shutting down Parserfunctions at any point in the near future. Chances are, at some point someone will rewrite it in Lua and it will work the same as it always has. —Scott5114↗ 13:03, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

We can just do spell=in... --Rschen7754 18:37, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

There is an additional advantage to the deprecation. For example, {{convert|1|to|2|mi|km}} gives "1 to 2 miles (1.6 to 3.2 km)", which is something that the /spell template could not do, so adding |spell=in gives "one to two miles (1.6 to 3.2 km)". Also, we can get "one-mile-long (1.6 km)"" as well, something that didn't work in the /spell template. Imzadi 1979 → 21:39, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Ok, just something to note. If a conversion falls at the start of a sentence, such that we want it to appear capitalized, use | with a capital I. Compare:

• {{convert|1|mi|km|spell=in}} with
• {{convert|1|mi|km|spell=In}} . Imzadi 1979 → 00:50, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

By state GA/FA status

So... if the state has at least one current GA or FA it is marked as a +. If the state does not have one its a -. Two states have featured content that are not articles (TX has a Featured List, WA has Featured Media).

Go go useless trivia. Though it would be nice to see some of the -s turn to +s over the year as part of our B+ drive. --AdmrBoltz 22:22, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

NY has 3 FLs, whether or not we still want them. Mitch32 22:46, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Also, some of the states w/o GAs but with FAs have A-Class articles that are also GA but not counted as they aren't in the GA-Class article category for the state. --AdmrBoltz 22:48, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Also, wait, NY has 11 FAs and marked as minus here, why? Mitch32 22:50, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Because I hit the wrong button ;) --AdmrBoltz 22:51, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Not a problem, being a nitpicking prick. :P Mitch32 22:53, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm flattered, but Iowa is not on this list at all. I don't understand what the purpose of this is, so I don't know what to do to add it. –Fredddie™ 23:25, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

IA is added. Was just checking which states don't have a GA or a FA. --AdmrBoltz 23:26, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

GAR notification

New Jersey Route 159, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. --Rschen7754 04:25, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

New Tennessee Route?

I was looking at Google maps and noticed a state route that is not shown in List of state routes in Tennessee, the route is 401 it goes from Tennessee State Route 69 east of Milledgeville, TN to State Routes 201 and 104 in Sardis, TN. and on an Google Street view image from July 2013 it is shown as Route 421. --ACase0000 (talk) 05:43, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

If there's one thing I've learned from being a member of USRD, it's "don't trust Google Maps". If you can, find a state map to verify that it is signed as SR 421. TCN7JM 13:35, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Don't trust the Goog, but they don't tamper with their street view photos except for blurring. These show secondary SR 421 at the north end (December 2007) and south end (July 2013). So SR 401 is almost certainly bogus. --NE2 16:02, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

See Copyright trap. Dave (talk) 16:10, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

See Hanlon's razor. --NE2 18:59, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Everyone!!! --ACase0000 (talk) 15:12, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission

Could you review this submission? Thanks, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

 Done: reviewed, cleaned up, and merged out of existence to List of secondary state highways in Virginia. Imzadi 1979 → 21:45, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Tennessee State Route 220A or Alt

I was experimenting on Tennessee State Route 220A just to see if there was a listed 220A or (220 Alt as it is shown) shield and there isn't, it does exist it is in Carroll County, TN near the town of Atwood, it goes from SR-220 to US-70A, i found it while looking at The 2014 Official Tennessee Transportation map i ordered and received in the mail. If you look on Google maps you wont find it, but if zoom in near Atwood and find Johnson Road at SR-220 then go on Street View and there you will see how it is signed. --ACase0000 (talk) 22:28, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

You'll likely need to request to make that sign, I've never seen a TN SR do that, so it's unique (here's a screenshot on GoogleMaps). Visit the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Shields task force/Requests and make a request. Always go how it is shown in the field, not on a map. --WashuOtaku (talk) 22:51, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I hadn't either Washuotaku --ACase0000 (talk) 23:19, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Lua conversions

This morning, new Lua versions of Template:Jcttop/core and Template:Jctint/core were deployed. Please let us know if you find any issues ASAP. --Rschen7754 10:20, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Inserting table rows manually no longer works: U.S. Route 17 in Florida#Major intersections --NE2 19:35, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

{{Jctgap}} should be used for that, instead. --Rschen7754 19:42, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

It's not a gap, and how are you going to find all the broken places and fix them? Why is it breaking in the first place? --NE2 20:20, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The only difference seems to be the use of tr/td vs. table wikicode. In other words, the new implementation doesn't work for some reason with table wikicode. Is this the fault of Lua? --NE2 21:05, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

No, it seems to be caused by {{jcttop}}'s use of <table> rather than {|. Why was this changed? --NE2 21:09, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The same thing happens on Georgia State Route 236#Major intersections (edit: not going to post another here because Imzadi1979 will just go and cock it up; check the history) and any others that use jcttop but not jctint. --NE2 21:27, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

...maybe you should use all Jcttop, Jctint, and Jctbtm together?—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 22:01, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Maybe people shouldn't break existing uses of templates? --NE2 22:34, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

This revision shows the article NE2 was mentioning, which has since been fixed. However, the point bears repeating: mixing usage between hard-coding and templates is not a good idea because we can't test all situations like that before changing templates, but we can test the templates for how they work with each other. Imzadi 1979 → 23:22, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Another point bears making: we have wikicode for templates. Why use html? --NE2 23:23, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Because it's an absolute nightmare coding wikitext tables in Lua. Your complaint is about hardcoded junction lists. Since those are officially unsupported, they're not my problem. Simple as that. -happy5214 06:20, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Maybe we shouldn't be converting tables to Lua then? --NE2 07:04, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Or maybe we should use the templates as they are designed to be used: all of them at once. -happy5214 07:36, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

The issue with parserfunctions, besides the difficulty in understanding the code, is that it is much slower to load than Lua, especially for larger tables. --Rschen7754 07:37, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

There is a full family of related templates for constructing the tables about which NE2 is concerned. There is a template to create the header, a template to create the footer, and templates to create the intervening rows. There should be no reason to mix templates with hand-coding, and if there is, either we have a case to add a template to the family, a function to a template, or educate someone that there is already a template-based solution.

In some cases, editors used raw wikicode to create parts of the tables instead of using one of the templates. That is a bad practice, and this isn't the first time that the templates have been modified. Previously, the templates were updated, in concert, to insert the second distance column. Manually formatted tables before mid-2012 that used the header template would have broken when the km column was added to the header. Granted, they wouldn't have broken as spectacularly as the SR 236 example above. That is why when there is a standardized scheme based on templates, you don't go using only part of it without knowing that the future-proofing action of using the templates will not apply to the non-template code. Imzadi 1979 → 09:59, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Peña Boulevard? --AdmrBoltz 17:58, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Fixed; apparently type=ETC is no longer valid. --Rschen7754 18:02, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Needs to be removed from {{jctint}}'s doc file them... Might not be the only page with that issue, just saw it as someone was doing {{convert/spell}} conversions and it hit my watchlist this morning. --AdmrBoltz 18:03, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

type=etc should still work. Just make sure it's in lowercase. -happy5214 06:05, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Doc file updated. ETC use to work before the switch. --AdmrBoltz 17:12, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Upcoming newsletter issue (Winter 2014)

Just a friendly reminder that we have a nominal deadline in a few days for newsletter content over at WP:USRD/NEWS. Imzadi 1979 → 11:22, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

M1-1 Shields Retagged

All M1-1 tags should be now tagged as {{PD-USGov-MUTCD|M1-1}} on Commons. I may have missed a few, but almost all should be correct now. --AdmrBoltz 21:20, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Props

The January edition of the project newsletter was such a welcome sight. This issue seemed to take it to another level compared to past newsletters. I am excited to see so many people contributing to the newsletter and to the project in general. Even though I did not contribute this newsletter, it gives me a bit of inspiration to pitch in next time. I hope this high standard continues with the next newsletter and throughout the project in 2014.  VC  02:10, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Duplicate shields on Commons

Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Delaware State Route shields

FYI. --AdmrBoltz 14:59, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

U.S. Route 46 GAR

U.S. Route 46, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. --AdmrBoltz 19:32, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

It still cites File:1925us.jpg rather than File:1925 log.pdf. I'd change it but someone else would "have to" change the citation format anyway. --NE2 20:35, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Fixed. --AdmrBoltz 20:40, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Is the rest of that report online someplace? Either way, it should be easy enough to use {{cite book}} to reference the report appendix. To wit:

• Joint Board on Interstate Highways (October 30, 1925). "Appendix VI. Descriptions of the Interstate Routes Selected, with Numbers Assigned". Report of the Joint Board on Interstate Highways (Report). Bureau of Public Roads. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); |format= requires |url= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

You could alternately list the Secretary of Agriculture as an/the author if desired. Imzadi 1979 → 20:45, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

OCLC 55123355 --NE2 22:47, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

PS: why the external link? This means that if the filename is changed on Commons (since I forgot to devagueify it) nobody will know to fix the link. --NE2 22:48, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

File has been renamed File:Report of the Joint Board on Interstate Highways - Appendix VI.pdf, citation updated with new file name and OCLC number. --AdmrBoltz 22:56, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Cool, image redirects. --NE2 01:23, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

But actually, why the https? Anyone logged in will be redirected there anyway, but someone not logged in doesn't necessarily want https. --NE2 01:25, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Shouldn't we be able to omit the protocol altogether? Just putting "//commons.wikimedia.org/..." should automatically select the currently active protocol. Or is that not allowed by {{cite book}}? -happy5214 06:08, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

So fix it if you don't like it. --AdmrBoltz 18:26, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Merging articles of same-numbered routes in different states

There is a discussion going on at Talk:Route 286 (Delaware–Maryland) about why the MD 286 and DE 286 articles were merged to form Route 286 (Delaware–Maryland). I think we have had a project discussion about how to name such combined articles, but I do not remember one about when it is prudent to create such combined articles. Your input is appreciated about this particular situation or the concept in general.  VC  15:19, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

My concern with that article is that one of the merged articles was a GA and the other was not. Technically speaking, the new merged article should not be a GA because it did not go through GAN, only part of it was. –Fredddie™ 04:28, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

There is a similar proposal to merge M-54 (Michigan highway) with M-83 (Michigan highway) that's been proposed at Talk:M-83 (Michigan highway)#Proposed merge to a double-feature article. Please feel free to comment. Imzadi 1979 → 10:39, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

First SPUI in Texas, not Florida?

I don't know which side of OR this is, so I'm not changing the article. But the first SPUI might not be the one that we list (and is commonly cited as the first in scholarly publications): http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10567.msg272879#msg272879 --NE2 19:39, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

this source mentions it, as well as the 1962 date... but it claims it is a SPUI-like interchange. - Floydian  _¢ 20:43, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

That book is somewhat on the edge of reliability, and doesn't say what the difference between SPUI and "SPUI-like" is. --NE2 21:32, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

article about a freeway prodded as non-notable

Nocatee Parkway (mirrored version) is a developer-constructed freeway (OSM map) that's partly signed as County Road 210 (redirect to the county road list). Any opinions? --NE2 07:57, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

If it was notable, it would be a state highway. –Fredddie™ 14:08, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. CRs are not inherently notable and must prove their notability. I was the one who prodded it back in the day. Its only reference was to Google Maps. No secondary sourcing at all. The highway failed the WP:GNG and WP:USRD/NT. --AdmrBoltz 14:11, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

USA Parkway is an example of a similar article that has (so far) avoided the deletion machine, and Summerlin Parkway is an example of one that I don't think there is even any controversy about notability. So somewhere between those 3 examples is a line of notability, but I'm not sure where it is. Dave (talk) 16:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

USA has some references (and survived AfD in 08). Summerlin Parkway is borderline at the moment with out really any non AA Roads third party sources. --AdmrBoltz 17:05, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Correction: if it was in a different state, it might be a state highway. A freeway will generally have sources no matter what government builds it (though a developer-built freeway might not). I might write the article, but right now it has a big target on its back. --NE2 18:06, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Sources about its importance beyond the Nocatee development: http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/030307/neS_8304333.shtml http://www.wokv.com/news/news/first_phase_of_nocatee_parkway/nny6/ --NE2 18:16, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Other non-state highway freeways with articles: Las Vegas Beltway (mostly CR 215), Ronald Reagan Parkway, Sugarloaf Parkway, Peña Boulevard, Gardiner Expressway, Don Valley Parkway, Storrow Drive, Osceola Parkway (more of a surface expressway), E-470, Northwest Parkway. --NE2 18:06, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Whats your point? --AdmrBoltz 18:34, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Whats your point? --NE2 20:06, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Why are you listing the above articles randomly? --AdmrBoltz 20:09, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Why do you beat your wife? --NE2 20:37, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Related question: is there a way to search old newspaper articles, now that the Goog no longer can? --NE2 18:11, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Append "site:news.google.com/newspapers" to your search query. It's clunky, but it seems to work. –Fredddie™ 18:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

That only finds the ones the Goog scanned, not ones on the newspapers' sites. --NE2 20:07, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I never knew it could. Whenever I used it, I would only get articles from newspapers in their archives. –Fredddie™ 20:12, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

It was a useful tool and it had no way of forcing you to use Google+, so they canned it. - Floydian  _¢ 20:19, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Junction list/Major intersection section problem

In the section in Tennessee State Route 169 it was all messed up, but i fixed it but there is something i can't figure out how to do, see this page. --ACase0000 (talk) 17:34, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Someone mixed hard-coded tables and {{jctint}}... I have not cleaned it, but that's why. --AdmrBoltz 17:37, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Correction: someone changed {{jcttop}} to use HTML table code. --NE2 18:09, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

You either use templates or don't. Can't complain when the template doesn't work because it was used incorrectly. - Floydian  _¢ 20:20, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Busted. --NE2 20:37, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

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