| Revision as of 18:40, 30 January 2014 editDigDeep4Truth (talk | contribs)273 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 8 January 2014: Here is a redrawn map of Judea and Palestine from 43 CE = before Hadrian was born.← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:08, 30 January 2014 edit undoDigDeep4Truth (talk | contribs)273 editsm →Please Include these Two Maps of Palaeftina 400 AD and Palestine 2007 CE: F.A.M Blue Lodge (Zionists), York Rite (Catholic), Scottish Rite (KKK Zionist Movement for Jews in Jerusalem).Next edit → | ||
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| '''The Holy Land or Promised Land (Formerly Palestine), Recently Depicted and Published''' by ] 1659 CE --> http://www.wdl.org/en/item/210/#q=Palestine&time_periods=-8000-499&qla=en `` ] (]) 13:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC) <br /> | '''The Holy Land or Promised Land (Formerly Palestine), Recently Depicted and Published''' by ] 1659 CE --> http://www.wdl.org/en/item/210/#q=Palestine&time_periods=-8000-499&qla=en `` ] (]) 13:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC) <br /> | ||
| Here is another very good map, this |
Here ABOVE is another very good map, this ] map shines the light on a European Goal to replace ] with a ] or a ] of the artist and Europe's own Social Religious design. Created in ], one should note that ] started in Germany around 1500 CE. And be mindful both ] who signed ] into existence and his Grandpa were ]. F.A.M ] (Zionists), ] (Catholic), ] (KKK ] for Jews in Jerusalem). All three have one thing in common, Religious titles & Knight Degrees as part of membership, keeping the unfinished Crusades fresh in each members mind. Everyone who joins Freemasonry is reminded of the European unfinished Goal, akin to how Bush Jr groundlessly acted out against Iraq all because he was reminded of how senior Bush had failed in his goal to cripple Iraq from ever being able to defend Palestine, and for Freemasonry in general the invasion of ] and conversion to ] control. | ||
| : I'm also looking at another map, this time from Lithuania along the coast of Germany where they carved ] into ]. Written in Hebrew. ] (1720-1797) better known as the ] or ], Although he traveled some in Eastern Europe, he never visited the Holy Land. '''However, more than 500 of his disciples moved to Palestine at his urging; this immigration is considered the beginning of the modern Jewish settlement of the Land of Israel.''' http://www.wdl.org/en/item/2662/#q=Palestine&page=2&qla=en | : I'm also looking at another '''] hosted map''', this time from Lithuania along the coast of Germany where they carved ] into ]. Written in Hebrew. ] (1720-1797) better known as the ] or ], Although he traveled some in Eastern Europe, he never visited the Holy Land. '''However, more than 500 of his disciples moved to Palestine at his urging; this immigration is considered the beginning of the modern Jewish settlement of the Land of Israel.''' http://www.wdl.org/en/item/2662/#q=Palestine&page=2&qla=en | ||
| == Proposed deletion of map template in use on this page == | == Proposed deletion of map template in use on this page == | ||
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grammar correction
In the Middle Ages section, the following needs fixing: Should read:
- Even though it is capitalized you didn't bother to look up what a Bedouin is? There is a comma because they are trying to rename or describe , saying nomad after nomad is repeating its meaning. However the italics for slang usage is a good idea. DigDeep4Truth (talk) 11:58, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
No mention of the true origin of the term, Palestine.
The name, Syriana Palaestina was given to Judea by the Roman Emperor, Hadrian following his conquest of Yisrael (Israel). Yirushalem (Jerusalem) was renamed Aelina Capitolina by Hadrian as well. The article makes no mention of this fact, but does mention references which suggest that persons indigenous to the region identified the region as Palestine and that the name, Palestine has indigenous origins. The history of Hadrian's conquest and redrawing of the region, while entirely accurate, is often suppressed because it supports a politically unpopular native; which is that the origin of the name, Palestine is wholly colonial. <Judea, Misplaced Pages>
Garrettrutledge55 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garrettrutledge55 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Actually the story you allude to is supressed because it is wrong. There is no primary source for Hadrian's renaming - it is romatic contecture. See sources at Timeline of the name Palestine.
- Oncenawhile (talk) 20:57, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- and was greece in charge of the area at the time?! the article it's self states that the Egyptians used a different name, that the philistenes (a cognate) were an invading people from the argean area, who only settled the southern section of the coast, the reast of the area being refered to as "canaan " and later as "kingdom of israel" and "kingdom of judea" for a period of over 500 years, so what relevance does the greek decision to call it palistine have to do with the native name of the region? it makes sense on account of the theory that the philistines were greek, its always nice to use a native word, but the native population during the period in question called it "israel" "judea" or "phonecia". So yes, the greeks count as colonial by any streach of the immagination! Far from being wrong, it represents the view of the then majority indigenous population.93.172.175.43 (talk) 17:01, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- The land area has been known as variations of the word Palestine since antiquity, calling it any previous or further names would be inaccurate, simply put. Silvertrail (talk) 21:08, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- in antiquity by whom? as stated, the egyptians were still speaking egyptian up till roman times, and had a different name for it as mention "plst" referes to the philistines proper. There is no proof here whatsoever that aramaic speakers (the lingua franca in the area, greek and roman were only used in the roman empire, greek didn't manage to take root in the semetic speaking countries) used these names clearly other that for the philistines proper, so the answer remains clear that "palistine" was a colonial, not local name. You are looking at this with a Grecian bias. That the term has been used for the past 2000 years all by exclusively colonial powers does not establish the name of the area.
- The land area has been known as variations of the word Palestine since antiquity, calling it any previous or further names would be inaccurate, simply put. Silvertrail (talk) 21:08, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- and was greece in charge of the area at the time?! the article it's self states that the Egyptians used a different name, that the philistenes (a cognate) were an invading people from the argean area, who only settled the southern section of the coast, the reast of the area being refered to as "canaan " and later as "kingdom of israel" and "kingdom of judea" for a period of over 500 years, so what relevance does the greek decision to call it palistine have to do with the native name of the region? it makes sense on account of the theory that the philistines were greek, its always nice to use a native word, but the native population during the period in question called it "israel" "judea" or "phonecia". So yes, the greeks count as colonial by any streach of the immagination! Far from being wrong, it represents the view of the then majority indigenous population.93.172.175.43 (talk) 17:01, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- also antiquity is a relative word, for an area who's history goes back 10,000 years as opposed to 2,500 for european areas, pretending as if there is unique significance to the greeco-roman antiquity over any of the other major empires that ruled here or peoples that lived here is a tad ego-centric of the west. the name palistine is nothing more than a name of convenience, and the answer needs to be given why they chose a distinct minority inhabitant as the name for the entire region. 93.172.87.147 (talk) 15:26, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
- You know, if you don't know something or anything, rather than argue the point, just consult google books, and in this case you will find in a minute that all of your preconceptions are wrong, esp. about Greek which was, after Alexander's death one of the dominant languages of the area from Phoenicia to Egypt, so used by Jewish thinkers and within the diaspora that the Septuagint was produced to cater to non-Hebrew or Aramaic speakers. The koine was spoken throughout Palestine, as numerous inscriptions attest.Nishidani (talk) 16:25, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
- also antiquity is a relative word, for an area who's history goes back 10,000 years as opposed to 2,500 for european areas, pretending as if there is unique significance to the greeco-roman antiquity over any of the other major empires that ruled here or peoples that lived here is a tad ego-centric of the west. the name palistine is nothing more than a name of convenience, and the answer needs to be given why they chose a distinct minority inhabitant as the name for the entire region. 93.172.87.147 (talk) 15:26, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
- Unless you provide reliable sources that support any change you want to make to the article you are wasting your time. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:38, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece. Herodotus wrote of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê" in The Histories, the first historical work clearly defining the region, which included the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley. Approximately a century later, Aristotle used a similar definition in Meteorology, writing "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said. They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them," understood by scholars to be a reference to the Dead Sea.
- I think this should be copied into the text. Rather than floating out there on its own as if it is a separate subject. DigDeep4Truth (talk) 12:21, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
- Copyright expired books on Palestine -- http://www.wdl.org/en/search/?q=Palestine&qla=en
Semi-protected edit request on 8 January 2014
 | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
This text in regards the Misplaced Pages page for 'Palestine' is historically incorrect and incomplete, as to give a misleading account of historical events. On that basis, I would like to request a change FROM:
EXISTING Entry:
The term was first used to denote an official province of the Roman Empire in c.135 CE, when the Roman authorities, following the suppression of the Bar Kokhba Revolt, combined Iudaea Province with Galilee and other surrounding cities such as Ashkelon to form "Syria Palaestina" (Syria Palaestina), which some scholars state was in order to complete the dissociation with Judaea.
TO (proposed paragraphs):
In AD 135, the Emperor Hadrian blotted out the name “Provincia Judea” and renamed it “Provincia Syria Palaestina”. This was the Roman-Latin version of the Greek name, and soon became a name to be used as an administrative unit. This name was shortened to Palaestina and the name “Palestine” was derived from it as a modern and anglicized translation.
From 115 – 117 CE, the Jews, primarily outside of Judea, fought a bitter war with the Romans. The main centers of revolution were: Alexandria in Egypt; Cyrene (in the region, Cyrenaica) in Libya; and also Cyprus. The Jewish revolt all but saved the Parthian Empire from a Roman onslaught. After failing to make any strategic inroads, in 132 CE the Jews of Judea once again revolted – this time under a leader called Simon “Bar Kochba” (which translates to, “the son of the star”). When the Bar Kochba revolt was finally quashed in 135 CE, the Romans exiled the majority of the remaining Jewish peoples and renamed Judea “Provincia Syria Palaestina”. “Syria Palaestina” thereby officially became a Roman province roughly a century after Jesus’ crucifixion (i.e. circa 130 AD). The essential concept being, by Rome, to effectively erase all Jewish connotations in Judea and to re-assign the Jewish homeland a direct reference to their (i.e. the Jews) Biblical arch-enemies the Phlistines. For the Jews, it was a final humiliation.
Historically speaking, there were no Philistines at the time of the revolt occupying Judea or the directly adjacent regions - and if some Philistines had existed there during the era, they would certainly not be "Arabs" in the strictest modern, anthropological understanding of the term: Philistines have their true origins in Greece.
Kowalski2014 (talk) 08:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
- www.palestinefacts.org does not qualify as a WP:RS
- The second paragraph appears to be based on a blog by Simcha Jacobovici, Canadian-Israeli filmmaker and journalist so again, not reliable by Misplaced Pages's standards
- focusonjerusalem.com is a self-published "prophecy ministry" site by Darrell G. Young so again not reliable by Misplaced Pages's standards
- Sean.hoyland - talk 08:54, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Technical 13 (talk) 20:40, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
This is common knowledge. If you do not know this, should you really be editing Jewish history articles? Hadrian attempted to root out Judaism, which he saw as the cause of continuous rebellions, prohibited the Torah law, the Hebrew calendar and executed Judaic scholars (see Ten Martyrs). The sacred scroll was ceremonially burned on the Temple Mount. In an attempt to erase the memory of Judaea, he renamed the province Syria Palaestina (after the Philistines), and Jews were forbidden from entering its rededicated capital. When Jewish sources mention Hadrian it is always with the epitaph "may his bones be crushed" (שחיק עצמות or שחיק טמיא, the Aramaic equivalent), an expression never used even with respect to Vespasian or Titus who destroyed the Second Temple. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.205.145.28 (talk) 07:28, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
- Which part of "please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made" didn't you understand ? Sean.hoyland - talk 07:37, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
- You are the Misplaced Pages nerd. It is your responsibility to find sources, not mine. By the way, I am not Kowalski. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.205.145.28 (talk) 07:59, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
- Quite curious. This proposal is an offprint from a noted hasbara meme, which crops up on many newspaper sites with polemical regularity. It has no grounding in sound scholarship.Nishidani (talk) 08:06, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
- That Hadrian renamed the province of IVDAEA to remove the Jewish reference, among a number of other anti-Jewish measures he undertook in the aftermath of the Second Jewish Revolt, is historical enough, but 94.205.145.28's emotive language is inappropriate for Misplaced Pages articles, and of course it's the responsibility of someone who proposes contentious changes to source those changes... AnonMoos (talk) 00:40, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- AnonMoos, I know you read that someone, but History says it is a made up lie. Here is a redrawn map of Judea and Palestine from 43 CE = before Hadrian was born. https://en.wikipedia.org/Pomponius_Mela ~ 12:34, 30 January 2014 (UTC) DigDeep4Truth (talk0
- That Hadrian renamed the province of IVDAEA to remove the Jewish reference, among a number of other anti-Jewish measures he undertook in the aftermath of the Second Jewish Revolt, is historical enough, but 94.205.145.28's emotive language is inappropriate for Misplaced Pages articles, and of course it's the responsibility of someone who proposes contentious changes to source those changes... AnonMoos (talk) 00:40, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- Quite curious. This proposal is an offprint from a noted hasbara meme, which crops up on many newspaper sites with polemical regularity. It has no grounding in sound scholarship.Nishidani (talk) 08:06, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
- You are the Misplaced Pages nerd. It is your responsibility to find sources, not mine. By the way, I am not Kowalski. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.205.145.28 (talk) 07:59, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
Please Include these Two Maps of Palaeftina 400 AD and Palestine 2007 CE
- Palaeftina 400AD http://www.wdl.org/en/item/11745/zoom/#group=1&page=1&zoom=5.4635¢erX=0.2820¢erY=0.5588
- Palestine 2007CE http://davidduke.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/West_Bank__Gaza_Map_2007_Settlements.jpg
DigDeep4Truth (talk) 11:39, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
- Why is David Duke a reliable source on this subject? -- AnonMoos (talk) 00:33, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- He is not the source of the map. I did a search. This is what I found. DigDeep4Truth (talk) 12:47, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
- Why is David Duke a reliable source on this subject? -- AnonMoos (talk) 00:33, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
These two maps are already on wiki:
- File:Israel Byzantine 5c.jpg (this is a modern representation of the first link above)
- File:West Bank & Gaza Map 2007 (Settlements).png
.png){kind=link}
You can see links to which articles these maps are included in at the bottom of the page links. Oncenawhile (talk) 10:48, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- The First Map is labeled wrong. It is not a map of Israel Byzantine. It is a map of "Palestine Byzantine". Not the same map. Though the time frame is within 100 years, and more detailed, it lacks the authenticity of an old map. But it needs to be relabeled "Palestine Byzantine".
- The second map should be in this Palestine article. If there is one single map of Palestine, it should be an accurate one. That is not just a map of the "West Bank and Gaza". It shows the North, the South, and the East bank settled too! That is a Map of "All of Palestine 2007" and must be added for this article to be an accurate reflection of what is Palestine. DigDeep4Truth (talk) 12:47, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
The Holy Land or Promised Land (Formerly Palestine), Recently Depicted and Published by Nicolaes Visscher 1659 CE --> http://www.wdl.org/en/item/210/#q=Palestine&time_periods=-8000-499&qla=en `` DigDeep4Truth (talk) 13:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
Here ABOVE is another very good map, this United Nations map shines the light on a European Goal to replace Palestine with a Holy Land or a Promised Land of the artist and Europe's own Social Religious design. Created in Amsterdam, one should note that Freemasonry started in Germany around 1500 CE. And be mindful both Harry S. Truman who signed 1948 Israel into existence and his Grandpa were Freemason. F.A.M Blue Lodge (Zionists), York Rite (Catholic), Scottish Rite (KKK Zionist Movement for Jews in Jerusalem). All three have one thing in common, Religious titles & Knight Degrees as part of membership, keeping the unfinished Crusades fresh in each members mind. Everyone who joins Freemasonry is reminded of the European unfinished Goal, akin to how Bush Jr groundlessly acted out against Iraq all because he was reminded of how senior Bush had failed in his goal to cripple Iraq from ever being able to defend Palestine, and for Freemasonry in general the invasion of Palestine and conversion to Judeo-Christian control.
- I'm also looking at another United Nations hosted map, this time from Lithuania along the coast of Germany where they carved Palestine into 12 Tribes. Written in Hebrew. Eliyyahu ben Shelomo Zalman (1720-1797) better known as the Vilna Gaon or Elijah of Vilna, Although he traveled some in Eastern Europe, he never visited the Holy Land. However, more than 500 of his disciples moved to Palestine at his urging; this immigration is considered the beginning of the modern Jewish settlement of the Land of Israel. http://www.wdl.org/en/item/2662/#q=Palestine&page=2&qla=en
Proposed deletion of map template in use on this page
Template:Palestinian territory development has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at @ the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Oncenawhile (talk) 18:03, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
- I nominate it be kept. In fact there needs to be a section of maps. Do you have something as informative to take its place? How can you discuss the Taking of Lands from Palestine and Occupation of lands within Palestine, without showing the land being taken? Are you trying to hide information from people? For what reason do you want it removed? -- BTW, please add the two maps I posted. DigDeep4Truth (talk 00:25, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- It is not my nomination. To register your view, go to Misplaced Pages:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 January 26. Oncenawhile (talk) 10:43, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you I misunderstood. It was good of you to make sure the debate was also posted here. Please Keep the Palestine Maps. DigDeep4Truth (talk) 10:15, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
- It is not my nomination. To register your view, go to Misplaced Pages:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 January 26. Oncenawhile (talk) 10:43, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
- Jacobson, David M. (1999). Weinstein, James M. (ed.). "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (313). The American Schools of Oriental Research: 65–74. ISSN 0003-097X. JSTOR 1357617.
The earliest occurrence of this name in a Greek text is in the mid-fifth century b.c., Histories of Herodotus, where it is applied to the area of the Levant between Phoenicia and Egypt."..."The first known occurrence of the Greek word Palaistine is in the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-fifth century B.C. Palaistine Syria, or simply Palaistine, is applied to what may be identified as the southern part of Syria, comprising the region between Phoenicia and Egypt. Although some of Herodotus' references to Palestine are compatible with a narrow definition of the coastal strip of the Land of Israel, it is clear that Herodotus does call the "whole land by the name of the coastal strip."..."It is believed that Herodotus visited Palestine in the fifth decade of the fifth century B.C."..."In the earliest Classical literature references to Palestine generally applied to the Land of Israel in the wider sense.
{{cite journal}}:|access-date=requires|url=(help); Unknown parameter|month=ignored (help) and David Jacobson (May/Jun 2001). "When Palestine Meant Israel". BAR 27:03. Retrieved 2 March 2012.As early as the Histories of Herodotus, written in the second half of the fifth century B.C.E., the term Palaistinê is used to describe not just the geographical area where the Philistines lived, but the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt—in other words, the Land of Israel. Herodotus, who had traveled through the area, would have had firsthand knowledge of the land and its people. Yet he used Palaistinê to refer not to the Land of the Philistines, but to the Land of Israel
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - Jacobson, David M., Palestine and Israel, Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, No. 313 (Feb., 1999), pp. 65–74
- The Southern and Eastern Borders of Abar-Nahara Steven S. Tuell Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, No. 284 (Nov., 1991), pp. 51–57
- Herodotus' Description of the East Mediterranean Coast Anson F. Rainey Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, No. 321 (Feb., 2001), pp. 57–63
- In his work, Herodotus referred to the practice of male circumcision associated with the Hebrew people: "the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves confess that they learnt the custom of the Egyptians.... Now these are the only nations who use circumcision." The History of Herodotus
- Beloe, W., Rev., Herodotus, (tr. from Greek), with notes, Vol.II, London, 1821, p.269 "It should be remembered that Syria is always regarded by Herodotus as synonymous with Assyria. What the Greeks called Palestine the Arabs call Falastin, which is the Philistines of Scripture."
- Elyahu Green, Geographic names of places in Israel in Herodotos This is confirmed by George Rawlinson in the third book (Thalia) of The Histories where Palaestinian Syrians are part of the fifth tax district spanning the territory from Phoenicia to the borders of Egypt, but excludes the kingdom of Arabs who were exempt from tax for providing the Assyrian army with water on its march to Egypt. These people had a large city called Cadytis, identified as Jerusalem.
- "Meteorology By Aristotle". Classics.mit.edu. Retrieved 2011-12-11.
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